Octopus Go & Intelligent Octopus Go - Still The Best EV Tariffs?

[@GaryDoesSolar]

* NOTES SINCE RELEASE * So, no sooner had I published this video and Octopus Energy improved their Octopus Go tariff! Octopus Go now has the same export rate as Intelligent Octopus Go - namely 15p/kWh. Cool 😎

[@mtpaley1]

Now it is a no brainer. I will switch from Flux to Go for the next 4 months.

[@stuartburns8657]

I literally tried to switch tonight but had problems. Emailed them and they've sorted it out, but I'm still on Outgoing Lite from what I can gather. Tad confused lol

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@stuartburns8657 Probably takes a day or so for the change to complete, maybe?

[@norfolkmustard]

They’ve added the 15p rate for a few more tariffs too. Only Flux and Intelligent Flux aren’t compatible now.

[@techieboy333]

And no sooner than they made those changes to 15p/kWh, they've also changed Outgoing Fixed to a variable export tariff that increases and decreases in line with wholesale pricing. Might have toj ump across to E.on now before they start messing with things.

[@jeffn9316]

Great tip on setting the Zappi to avoid solar charging Gary. Many thanks

[@GaryDoesSolar]

My pleasure, Jeff!

[@ionlywanttrains]

Very informative as usual. For intelligent octopus there is a trigger set in the API when smart charging starts/stops. Don't worry, there is a plugin for Home Assistant which can read this for you, then you can set an automation to charge your home battery when the smart charging starts. This works well.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Very cool! I’ll look into this 👍🏻 Thanks for the great feedback 🙏

[@everythinghome]

Hi Gary - great video as usual 👌 And really interesting/great that Octopus have increased their export rate to 15p per kWh. I do think that switching keeps the bigger energy companies like Octopus on their toes though and who knows may have even been part of their decision to increase the export rate. Furthermore, OE have chosen the Winter to increase this rate with very little in the way of excess solar kicking around for most and who knows what they'll change it to next year, they've already made changes in April, July and October 24. With E.On the 6.7p per kWh import and 16.5p per kWh export rate are fixed for 12 months. Interesting times, all the best, Shan

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Cheers Shan! I was thinking of you when I made this video in fact, as I know you made a video about switching away from Octopus here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqTCeaGBjN6FgpYsi=LXCP3VcLDQ2NPx03 I thoroughly recommend Shan‘s video and also a couple of follow-ups to that. Shan goes into detail on what the competition is up to. You might choose to switch like Shan, or choose to stay like me-whatever you do, healthy competition is great for everyone! 😀👍🏻

[@col1929]

Hi Gary. Love you videos and knowledge on all things solar. I have a few questions maybe you can help with. 1. My current solar pv is 16 panels with approx 3.6Kw Should i upgrade panels to a higher out put, as im looking at battery storage? 2. My current solar is on the Fit , but as most of this goes straight to the grid as we are out most of the days. Im looking at having a Tesla powerwall 3 installed. I'm currently with octopus, so after the battery install would you recommend moving to one of the other octopus tariffs? Thanks for the great videos and information.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks for your very kind words! 😀 Now, as you can imagine, I receive a large number of questions about specific situations and needs, and unfortunately, I can't respond to them all individually. However, there are several solar and battery groups online, such as this one in the UK, where knowledgeable members are often happy to provide free advice and support: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466. If you live in the UK and you'd like more personalised guidance from me directly, I offer a "Chat with Gary" service. While this isn't a free option, it does allow us to dive into your specific circumstances in detail: garydoessolar.com/chatwithgary/. Best of luck in finding the answers you need!

[@andrisromanovskis9363]

Hi, Gary! If I lived in the UK, I'd follow the advice from your vids to the letter. Actually I did it. My used electric Reno ZZZ is at home at last. The best thing - battery SOH is >96%.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s very humbling to hear - thank you! 😀🙏

[@althomas7937]

Great video Gary, I’ll adjust my solar settings to take advantage of the expert tariff on Intelligent Go! Thanks 🙏

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Great stuff! :-) Thanks for the feedback!

[@GarryCollins-xo9gk]

Great video. Switched to Octopus Flexible before having solar array and batteries installed. Can't now switch to a smart tariff because I don't have an up to date smart meter but Octopus seem to be unable to change meter because I live in Scotland!

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks Garry 😀 and yeah, the whole smart meter situation is a mess. Worth a chat with the ombudsman who might be able to unlock permissions for Octopus…

[@carlarrowsmith]

I switched to E.on next, the longer off peak period means that I have not needed to increase my 9.6kWh battery as it covers the highest usage of my ASHP. Also the export rate is better at 16.5p and it's a fixed tariff. Another reason to switch was the dreadful customer service from Octopus of late, I'm 158 days since my gas meter was removed and no final bill for it, 91 days since my switch to E.on and no final bill yet and no refund of credit. Emails and telephone calls made a few times but not resolved yet.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sorry to hear about your experience with Ocropus, Carl.

[@paulsanderson6483]

I've done exactly the same as both the daytime and overnight rates are cheaper and that extra time until 7am is really useful. I get up at 5:45am so we can plug another car in for a bit when the other has been charged and like you, it also gives us cheaper heat from the ASHP when we most want it. Plus we get to charge the batteries later giving us more battery usage during the day. I agree with the customer service from Octopus. It used to be great. My export meter was de-energised and I only realised when I got my bill and there was no export amount on there. It has been three months and still nothing has happened and they won't explain why it happened. I'm sticking with them until it is fixed then switching export to E.on next.

[@MarkN67]

Very informative and well presented video and I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question for me please? I’m a big fan of Octopus and currently have a “normal” fixed tariff for electric and gas and my electric export from my solar panels (which currently offset both my gas and electric charges every month). I’m currently looking at buying a Tesla and realise I will need to swop my tariff to Intelligent Go, when you talk about charging the car at specific times, do you set this schedule in the car / Tesla app or on the Octopus app or do you just plug the car in once you get home and the Intelligent Go sorts it all out and knows to charge the car between 2330 - 0530? Sorry for the long winded question.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi Mark, thanks for your kind words about the video! 😀 Yes, all you do is plug your Tesla in and Octopus takes care of everything else 👍🏻 A charging plan will be created automatically for you so that your car charges at the greenest slots overnight (and even in the day sometimes).

[@MarkN67]

@ Thank for taking the time to reply, that’s really helpful.

[@ZachSolar]

Very informative video, Gary. I enjoy learning about how the utility providers work over there in the UK.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks 😀👍🏻

[@rongalbraith5005]

Like some others in the comments, I use Home Assistant to bring together my charging and Solar PV ecosystem, among other smart home functionality. My integration with Octopus is via my Zappi charger for the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff. I use GivTCP for my Givenergy battery and inverter, alongside the HACS myenergi and Octopus Energy integrations. There's a binary sensor, "Intelligent Dispatching" (binary_sensor.octopus_energy_{a/c#}_intelligent_dispatching) which becomes active during any Octopus scheduled charging windows, so if this is active outside of 23:30 to 05:30, I disable discharging from the battery during that window. With GivTCP the easiest way I've found to do that is to change the GivTCP Mode (select.givtcp_{serial#}_mode) to "Eco (Paused)" and when the Intelligent Dispatching ends, it resets the mode to "Eco". There's a lot more you can do, and I have a whole load more controls and automations configured but I hope this helps a bit.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks for the taking the time to write this detailed solution description - very much appreciated! I’ll do some research around that 🙏

[@ashb8572]

Great video, how does octopus tracker compare? We are an EV and PHEV household but both car do low miles per annum but plenty of usage from our house

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks 🙏Now, I don’t know the answer to that myself, but maybe others here do….

[@euangoddard1]

Thanks for the tip on the intelligent tariff. I switched at the weekend off the back of your video and can see it'll save us money from the get go!

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s really great to hear, Euan! I think you’ll really enjoy being on Intelligent Octopus Go! All the best 😀👍🏻

[@dgilbert222]

An interesting video, thank you. Two questions: 1) Will Octopus Energy always provide enough additional lower rate slots to charge your EV to the capacity you have selected? Worst case for example, charge is quite low but you really need 100% the next day for a long trip. Would you end up paying for some at the day time rate? 2) There must be a risk to all this that when EV ownership reaches such high levels, overnight cheap rates will drop off as the country shifts its entire usage pattern to night time instead!?

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Cheers for the great feedback. 1) Octopus will always provide you with enough charge for your EV - don't worry. In the app tell it you want 100% and when you want it by... 2) Agreed, over time, tariffs will change accordingly - but as the percentage share of renewables against fossil fuels also goes up, I think it will be just as cheap to charge your EV.

[@ytzsch]

To avoid battery drain, I have a sunsynk inverter and it has six time slots where you can set the desired battery level. For day time they are set to 20% but for the off-peak period they are set to 100% so will not discharge. For nights where I need to charge the EV, I plug in the charger, see where the intelligent go charge time slots are, and then set my battery time slots with grid charge to the gaps. This way the battery and EV are not charging at the same time to balance the load but they could happen at the same time. Generally the diswasher and washing machine are going too during off-peak. Nice :) I set the EV ready time to be 5:30.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Pretty good! Watch though, because your charging plan may still change during execution (recent update to IOG)...

[@buncho64]

To stop my house battery discharging when I charge the car using intelligent go and it picks random slots outside of the normal hours, I got an electrician to install a shelly-em with its ct-clamp on the car charger power cable in the fuse box. I then get Home Assistant to monitor the Shelly and if the car charges, it will immediately tell the inverter to stop discharging from the battery. It works extremely well.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s a really good solution - I like it!

[@smartalec12]

I’ve been doing lots of research into stopping battery charging the car. I’m having a 6.8kw pv system installed with Tesla powerwall 3. And you can use an app called netzero to automatically change the powerwall to 100% stand by when there’s a demand on the house in excess of 7kwh. Once it drops below that it can revert back to standard and keep the operation normal. Just need to check what combination of household appliances can run without meeting that threshold

[@radiotowers1159]

Thanks Gary, I always charge my battery for the full 6 hours overnight ( battery charges quicker of course but its all cheap rate in any case). When I plug in and the Intelligent GO app gives me my charge times, any slots outside the overnight cheap rate times will then be programmed to my battery also as additional charge slots temporaily including the occasional "free" hours when everything goes on !, just remember to undo the extra times. I do get the occassional glitch when my charging slots do not completely match the app times...and it flattens the home battery. This can happen if for whatever reason the Zappi loses wifi or the interent drops out and the car fails to charge as I initially thought. Also remember Octopus will also credit you with Octopoints for charging when the energy is greenest.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

You’re most welcome, and this is a great summary of how IOG works in practice. I’m hearing that the charging plan is dynamic now and might change during its execution. I’m looking for good solutions to this and many commenters have suggested such 😀

[@radiotowers1159]

@@GaryDoesSolar Interesting about the dynamic times, funny enough last week I had a charging issue and dynamic times would explain it. I have emailedOctopus with that very question and if I get an answer I will post it here

[@radiotowers1159]

@@GaryDoesSolar So the other day , My car charging times changed 3 times during one charging session ( from plugging in to the eventual charge completion the next morning). My email reply from Octopus confirms dynamic times as they stated that they will charge the during the greenest times. However as as I am retired my IOG settings are set to complete the charge by 9AM and it seems they will use that to balance the grid load to suit.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@radiotowers1159 Thanks for sharing your experience of the new IOG dynamic charging - crikey, that really IS dynamic then! It's clear to me then, that an automated solution is required for this - I'm going to contact Speak To The Geek to see what can be done here...

[@asiw]

I have solved the battery drain problem. I use an ESP32 with a CT coil to monitor my Zappi supply. The ESP sends the power use readings to my network using the UDP protocol. This data is received by a Raspberry pi running Node-Red and as soon as it detects the Zappi charging in Fast mode during the day it sets the Tesla PowerWall reserve to its current level of charge thus preventing battery drain. I live in Birmingham UK and am happy to discuss further.

[@RJPick1]

I do exactly the same although I just use the Zappi API to detect Charging and Solis API to set Battery Backup mode and the Battery level to be retained. There are however times when the batteries are full from Solar (rarely I grant you) when I am happy for them to drain into the car. There is nothing like driving a BEV on sunshine!

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That's a really good solution - thanks for sharing!

[@mtpaley1]

I phoned octopus saying that I wanted to switch from Flux to Go. Answered the basic security questions and in less than 5 mins had the email with the terms and conditions for the switch. Accepted these then looked at my Octopus account and I am now in Go for import and Outgoing Octopus for export at 15p per unit. The entire thing took less than 10 mins start to finish. Amazing service. Compare this with Virgin Media which I left more than 2 years ago and I am still trying to get them to collect their equipment.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s brilliant-and actually typical of Octopus customer service 👍🏻😀

[@steveemery30]

I use home assistant to automate the switching of my Zappi from stopped to eco+ for the charge window It avoids my home battery going to the car but does mean no extra charging

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Cheers Steve - I’m going to look into this 👍🏻

[@AllElectricHouse]

Only way I've found to stop my battery drain is to change the % I allow to be used so that when the car starts to charge it stops discharging when the % of my powerwall is met. It's a pain as then I have to change it back after 23:30. I've also set the charge to be ready by 5:30 in the Octopus app and this prevents and discharge first thing in the morning. Ideally it would be nice if Octopus could somehow do both so that when the charge starts it imports from the grid. I'm not sure if you can also do this via the zappi with a ct clamp on the battery. I know you can add additional ct clamps to the zappi for solar and batteries etc so it may be the case that if it detects it draining the battery the zappi will pause the charge until there is no drain. I'm not really sure if that will work or how ideal it would be though.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Yeah, it's not a straight-forward issue to solve. Some interesting solutions int he comments though - I'll be looking into them soon...

[@mikey8156]

You maybe interested in how I am using a neural network to predict how long I should charge my battery over night. The inputs are the state of the battery% when I go to bed, the next days predicted solar and desired battery% tomorrow. If you want more details just ask.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sounds good, and yes please! My email is [e-mail].

[@jonathanwilliams7950]

I solved the PV battery discharging to my EV by having my EV charger installed off a henley block to a sub consumer unit so it's invisible to the inverter. Additionally I used home assistant automation scripts to make my inverter charge the battery when it's in an IO extra slot

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks Jonathan - sounds like a great solution! 😀

[@pmac6584]

I just plug in at 11:30 so that the car and battery charge at the same time. I might move the ct clamp if I get tired of this but after a year I have just got used to it.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Could be a good strategy - not for me though - I’m normally asleep by then! 😀

[@helenstannard8169]

please do look at the standing charges as octopus us one if the highest and when included in the overall calcs, the competition Gary mentions do offer a far better deals (Gary only covered standing charges in a one liner)

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Definitely worth checking too! Could you provide some examples here please?

[@shortbits23]

Does anyone here have an Octopus Go tariff setup as a dual rate tariff on a smart meter that can't transmit data to Octopus and requires manual supply of data once a month?

[@royeasto885]

I avoid my battery discharging into my car by setting the house battery to charge from 23:30 to 05:30 and telling Octopus that I want to have my car ready by 05:30. I often plug my car in late in the evening to prevent Octopus from emptying it before 23:30 and then I get charged the full day rate for electricity from the end of the car charge to 23:30. Next project is to add a new solar array in my garden's vegetable plot that is not used in the winter.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sounds like great tips! And good luck with your solar vegetable plot! :-)

[@althomas7937]

I also do this. Now I have no issues with battery drain. Nice one.

[@paulydee2103]

Snap! Another advantage of this approach is it can drive a full discharge of the home battery fairly regularly (weekly for me) so some good exercise for the battery. Not so much of a problem this time of year, but during the sunnier months when the PV array keeps the battery pretty much full all day it would never reach full discharge otherwise.

[@ChrisClifton]

Hi Gary, a very recent update to Octopus (last couple of days) is that they've stopped advertising the Outgoing Lite offering and now allow Octopus Go to work with the standard outgoing package meaning a flat outgoing price of 15p kw/h. This means a jump from 8p -> 15p kw/h which is great. I was trying to set up Outgoing Fixed Lite on 29th Oct and was told there was an issue. Turns out that issue was the package was going away and I could jump straight onto Outgoing Fixed.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Wow - Octopus Go just got even better! And my video is out of date already! Lol Thanks for spotting this, Chris - I'll add a pinned comment :-)

[@ChrisClifton]

@GaryDoesSolar I had to call Octopus to confirm and they just said "Yup, we're always changing making things better". They are not wrong!

[@stuartburns8657]

@chrisclifton Tried to swap tonight, had similar issues but was told they've put me on outgoing lite?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

In Australia the proposed Nuclear generation can only be throttled down partly and so upto 45,000 rooftop PV systems will be curtailed. For each 1,000Mw plant. This may be another complication for the UK nuclear summer grid.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

I'm not sure what this has to do with EV smart tariffs though?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@GaryDoesSolar sorry Gary, just my comment on how complicated the future transition will be as we all go to EV and rooftop PV. No need to respond. Good video, very clear.

[@shortbits23]

Sounds like a good reason to try and go 100% off grid.

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@shortbits23 depends where you are. Warm latitudes have more sunshine Cold latitudes have winter low light. EVs will demand more electricity EVs parked at buildings or carpark space with trickle charging from PV solar can take extra electricity home. I say a little bit of fossil fueled generation is nothing in mid winter weeks if the wind is not blowing. Nuclear electricity needs 247 continuous operations and 247 cash flow and a national grid, which is an extremely expensive infrastructure. The grid itself adds much more cost to electricity, and it also must have 247 cash flow. I do not know enough about each locations situation. But nuclear electricity is a massive investment that needs decades of 247 cash flow just to break even. Cold latitudes are warming, and energy is increasing in the atmosphere, stronger winds ?????

[@saqmaster]

Gary, do you know if you can still do a manual boost on a Zappi whilst using IOG? Using the Zappi/app, not the octopus app.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Yes, you can. I’ve started a manual boost from the Zappi itself 👍🏻

[@saqmaster]

@GaryDoesSolar Thanks, considering the WFF (wife friendly factor) before switching from OG to IOG.

[@madharry6792]

I have a slightly longer question for Gary and viewers of this channel. I am looking to move to octopus. I have seen various Octopus tariffs but cannot find one that matches my requirements where I import at cheaper times but do not export. I am on FIT payments since 2018 from the government as I have solar panels. Recently I installed a 13.5kw GivEnergy AIO battery which saved me more during summers. But in winters there is very little solar and I want to make use of economy 7 type tariff with cheaper rate at night to charge battery for use during the day. But I can’t export due to being tied to FIT scheme. To add one more item to it, soon I will get cheaper supply via Ripple energy solar farm (supplying to Octopus Energy). So my question is - Which tariff is best suited and whether it will benefit me throughout the year or just winters? Appreciate any advice.

[@RJPick1]

I have a steam driven electric meter originally installed for Economy 7 (7 hours cheaper electricity at night time). I am on Flexible Octopus Tariff; night rate 11.48p/kWh, Day rate 27.12p/kWh with standing charge @ 52.70p/day. I have sufficient battery capacity (15 kWh) that is charged over night on the cheap rate to run the house for the rest of the day during the day rate period so effectively my tariff is 11.48p/kWh. I can also charge my ID.3 over night at the same time. Obviously I have no Export tariff so anything I do export I am happy to do so, although try to minimize. This suits me. In the summer my bills are very low due to Solar production and even get to charge the car directly from the panels from time to time. In winter I get very little solar production so I just budget for the 11.48p/kWh. I hope this helps although it may not be the best tariff for you. (Prices are correct as of October 2024)

[@madharry6792]

@@RJPick1​​⁠appreciate your detailed feedback.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

It's a good question and one that is not easy to answer as it also depends on how you use energy throughout the day. Worth watching my video series here on the best strategies with tariffs and perhaps that'll give you ideas for your own situation: kzbin.info/aero/PLJy1q7saPP7TaDCGrpg0yjFtHAN_UkCbz All the best with whatever you decide! ... and if you'd like to discuss your situation in detail, I have a service available that would allow you to do that: www.garydoessolar.com/chatwithgary/

[@madharry6792]

@@GaryDoesSolar thank you Gary for taking out the time. I’ll have a look at both your links

[@craigburgess2237]

I had the problem of IOG draining my home battery when there was plenty of time to charge it during the 6 hour off peak window. I found it too unreliable, often not charging at the hours it said it would be charging. I have unlinked IOG from trying to intelligently charging my car, so all I have is a 6 hour window and that works fine. I agree also that there is little point charging your home battery with solar when you can export at 15p. Only in the depth of winter do I change the solar to prioritise the batteries to help them make it through the day and minimise using peak rate. I sympathise with your comments re not switching but E-On with 7 hours and 16.6p export is very tempting, I'll wait a month or so to see if Octopus responds but that extra hour in Dec/Jan is quite valuable especially as it finishes at 7am not 5.30am which suits my house better.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi Craig, thanks for sharing your thoughts on my video. Healthy competition in the market is certainly good. A fixed off-peak period is certainly easier for consumers to manage, but the demand/response profiles of the grid are changing all the time, and that will require a more dynamic approach. I feel tariffs like IOG are the way things will go... We'll just need to find technological solutions to avoid behaviours like home batteries draining into your EV. Octopus Energy's Mercury initiative could help a lot here through increased equipment interoperability across manufacturers.

[@craigburgess2237]

@@GaryDoesSolar IOG seems to me to have a long way to go to be fit for purpose for all, I have 4, 22kWh chargers and its only able to cope with one and even then, its unreliable, it needs to work perfectly all the time, no exceptions and it just doesn't. Many houses will end up with two chargers in time so more progress is needed. There is so much more development to come in this space, V2H, V2G and it seems to be moving at snail's pace for any number of reasons. So while the electricity suppliers, solar, charger and car manufacturers get their houses in order, electricity is a commodity that householders should simply buy from the cheapest supplier for the time being and wait for some genuine innovation that works, and then its only a few days to swap suppliers as I did to Octopus, hoping IOG would work. 7 hours at 6.7p and 16.5p SEG; bye bye Octopus for me..... for the time being.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@craigburgess2237 I agree, your situation is not really what IOG is set up for. I will say, that after having been on IOG for about 3 months now, with two EVs in the household, the charging has been flawless. Would be great to hear how you get on with Eon in time 🙏

[@ChrisParker-ty5tb]

REGULATORY CHANGE NEEDED - The DNO's make it easy to install 8 panels, so this is the common offering. 3600 watt capacity should provide >3000klwh for most installs so more than average households electric, BUT if replacing gas boiler with ASHP then electric demand likely to more than double. Government is funding £7500 for ASHP. HMG should encourage DNOs default behaviour to approve

[@ChrisParker-ty5tb]

typo - >3000klwh for most installs so more than average households ANNUAL electric DEMAND,

[@CharliesMicroAdventures]

I solved the problem of home battery charging my car but moving the battery CT clamp 'downstream' from the EV charger spur. this means that the battery can not see any of the current the EV charger is drawing and therefore does not try to fill the car from the home battery.

[@Ben-gm9lo]

Same here Gary. My Zappi EVSE feed is from the meter cupboard. So the tails going to my consumer unit and solar/battery system are seperate from the EVSE tails. I had your problem of house battery being discharged into the EVSE until I simply moved the solar/house battery CT clamp (in the meter box) from the meter tails to just the tails going to the cunsumer unit and solar/battery. If the solar/battery system can't see the EVSE draw then it can't supply it unless you are exporting. This isn't going to happen for normal EV charging at night.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks - I'll be investing this option! :-)

[@highland-oldgit]

Mmm, I'm wondering if Agile plus Home Assistant and Predbat or Net zero is still a better option or if Go is simpler and just as good. Battery discharge into EV would need fixing obviously.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

A very good question! There are apps out there that can look at your historical usage to determine, but the trouble is your usage behaviour will change depending on the tariff chosen!

[@tonyvfield]

I use google home assistant to control the battery. HA watches what the zappi is doing and if it sees the car being charged then it will set the house batteries to charge. It resets and checks every 30 mins.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sounds like a really straight-forward solution!

[@sds7870]

they told me export was standard 4.1p on octopus go?

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s the standard rate, yes - but there are also higher options for certain tariffs: octopus.energy/help-and-faqs/articles/which-export-tariff-can-i-combine-with-my-import-tariff/

[@lordmat0]

Personally I'm tempted to switch to e on next however Octopus offer a better gas deal with their tracker rate which has saved me roughly 30% this year.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Yeah, I'm on the Octopus gas tracker and it's saved me a fortune. And maybe that's the real consideration - the overall package from your energy provider, not just the EV tariff...?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Gas? Go wash your mouth out! Nasty, dangerous stuff it is..

[@andrewknots]

Just noticed the octopus referral bonus has changed to £100 for both referrer and referee

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi Andrew, golly! Where did you see that? My app still says “split £100 between both”… :-/ Watch though, YT deletes comments with links!

[@andrewknots]

@ You’re correct I misread the website, was quite excited because I was switching some rental properties before my wife sold them…

[@Pelham22]

Great video Gary. Tbh this could be a monthly update video. Would be good if you could cover all the octopus ev charging tariffs. I’m getting an ev, with octopus don’t have solar or battery but currently on tracker tarriff. Can’t do much overnight load switch so a bit perplexed by staying on tracker or switching to agile or IO especially when you work out the additional day rate cost.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@Pelham22 Thanks - I'll bear that in mind for future video ideas! 🙏

[@tarkadahl1985]

Tips to prevent the home battery discharging to the car battery during extra cheap time. 1. if the installer has put your car charger onto a sub board (rather than within your main consumer unit) it will be fed from a henley block, you can often move the inverter/battery CT clamp to after the henley block so that the inverter does not see the energy from the charger. Downside is your reporting in the inverter/battery system will be wrong, it wont show the energy used by the car. 2. Home assistant, automate it so the battery charges when cheap time arrives. 3. Wonderwatt are attempting to detect the "dispatching" sensor that Octopus use and start your system charging. 3. Givenergy released their Smart tariff (beta) card, they are testing currently to do the same, automate it remotely. Not available yet

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks for all this! :-)

[@ballathiam9486]

I am looking at home assistant also. Not been able to figure out how to solve the issue of battery discharging yet. Do you know if someone has video or online instructions how to get home assistant to control Hypervolt charger and powerwall 3 battery by any chance?

[@tarkadahl1985]

@@ballathiam9486 not a setup I'm familiar with. You will need HACs installed first, then use that to add two integrations, one called Octopus Energy from bottlecapdave and the other intelligent octopus from Megakid. They will have a sensor called "dispatching". When it changes from off to on it means you are on cheap rates. I have an automation that monitors it, when it changes it changes my start and finish charging time from the usual 2330-0530 to 0001 to 2359 so the system starts charging immediately. When dispatching goes off, it changes the charge time back.

[@SimonJBurley]

@@ballathiam9486 No idea about how to integrate with Powerwall specifically, but use the Octopus Energy HACS integration and set up an automation to tell the Powerwall to charge when the Intelligent Dispatching entity is On and to resume normal operations when Intelligent Dispatching entity is Off.

[@ionlywanttrains]

Can you provide more details of the Givenergy smart tariff card? This sounds like it might be interesting....

[@neergh8886]

I'm on e.On Next Drive now. 00:30 -07:30 6.9p off peak and 30.50p peak. Export 16.9p if you're available customer since April 24. I have a 15kWh battery. Does this works out better than Octopus Go?

[@GaryDoesSolar]

It looks like a good deal. I personally wouldn’t go for it though, for the reasons given in the video 👍🏻

[@clivew772]

It does for me too. But it’s midnight to 0700, at least where I live! I’d have no problem using Octopus if it was the best value for money option (as it may well be again one day) but E.On is cheaper for longer and has higher export rates for its supply customers - who don’t, as Gary points out, really use much daytime grid anyway. Of course, that may have changed by the time my fix expires next summer, and I’ll happily reassess then. I respect Octopus’s work too, but their referral codes are all over KZbin and, however transparent presenters like Gary may be about declaring them, it does throw an awkward light on advice like this. Still good to have the discussion, though, so I appreciate Gary’s effort in making the video and showing his working.

[@davespages]

6:11 EV chargers should be installed in a way that they either communicate with your solar/battery eco system or should be invisible to it. I.E The breakers/switches for the EV charger are "up stream" of the solar/battery CT clamp so it cannot see that "Load" and wont discharge into it. Of course this means charging with solar power wont work as your inviter/battery wont see that load. But if you are on IOG 365 days a year then this configuration would not be an issue.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Cheers Dave!

[@techieboy333]

That's how mine is set up too. Had to explain it all three or four times to the electrician who came to install the charger before he did what I wanted to make sure the inverter and batteries were oblivious to the load of the charger. Pretty sure I can still charge with solar (if I was ever so inclined) though, as my chargers CT sees the excess being exported back to the grid so in whatever it's most eco mode is, it'll use that excess. Hypervolt 3 Pro, in my case.

[@jsouto77]

Yes, this is the way I have it. But since I also have a zappi, charging from surplus solar is not an issue since that CT clamp is where is should be.

[@DefinitelyNotAGuru]

👍👍

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Thanks! :-)

[@timeflies1980]

I stop my battery being dumped into the EV by a home assistant automation with the octopus integration.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sounds like a good solution! Check though that it still works with the dynamic charging plans that Octopus Energy has just introduced, where the charging slots may change in real-time throughout the period...

[@timeflies1980]

⁠@@GaryDoesSolarit should be fine as it’s looking at the actual rate at that specific time and then either holding charge or charging in real time. I’ve had it stop/start charge halfway through the half hour slots previously.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

I have the same Zappi set up and often need a full charge so I disable battery discharge for one hour before and one and a half hours after the cheap rate period. In the hours we don't use a lot of electricity in that time of day any way so if not a big deal.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi Terry, sounds like a nice, easy solution. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

[@gwenshannon3797]

We moved to EON, Octopussy' not good for us. Wrong charger and wrong cars. Plus our meter connection too flaky for TOU. Eon do a 2 rate meter ,old economy 7, so 7 hours at 6.9p and no handing over control of car or storage battery. 😊

[@jameswestcott4191]

I think Intelligent Octopus Go fall down on their supported chargers and cars. I can only speak for Eon who I’m with and that will work with any EV. The basic Octopus Go tariff just isn’t competitive.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi James, Octopus bumped me up the OG export rate from 8 to 15 pence a couple of days ago-great to see this kind of response given healthy competition in the market. I’m expecting IOG features to improve over time too 👍🏻 Personally, I think the notion of fixed off peak periods will change over time-unpredictable renewable generation requires a new approach… Only IOG caters for this as far as I can see, and the new Octopus Mercury initiative seeks to standardise interoperability between manufacturers’ equipment. Interesting times!

[@graeradt]

I have a Zappi with solar panels and a battery and don't have an issue with the house battery discharging into the car. I think it is because of the way it has been wired. The Zappi is wired directly to my meter box supply, before the point where the inverter and battery are connected at the fuse box. The inverter therefore does not detect any draw from the Zappi and does not supply any battery power to meet that demand.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Sounds like a very good solution! My home battery is DC Coupled so not really possible to do that, unfortunately :-(

[@st200ol]

Electricity is not always far cheaper and greener overnight though. I’ve switched to Agile that one is definitely price linked to green electricity, which for my mileage, around 400 miles per week has been cheaper than IOG.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

That’s precisely why IOG exists - there are often times during the day when there grid is very green, and IOG will charge during those times as well 👍🏻 Great to hear about the results you’re getting from Agile though! 😀

[@st200ol]

@ I agree but people use IOG to charge car batteries and home batteries every night without looking about how green the grid is that night because the 11:30 to 6am slot is guaranteed. Most nights over the last two weeks have not been green at all, a lot of gas and some imports. My roof isn’t ideal for solar but I do have a 600w off grid system with 8kWh of batteries on my shed roof, small fry hobbyist stuff. With solar I do worry that the UKs already poor climate for solar will only get worse as our climate becomes more temperate over the next few decades.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@st200ol That's a good point and I'm wondering if Octopus (and other energy providers) will shy away from a default overnight period as a result? One of the reasons, I explored the idea of Intelligent Octopus Agile in this video I made recently - I'd be interested in your take on this actually, given you're on Agile at the moment 😃👍 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXLdh5h5aMSKjbssi=vg6YkBBFlxNSiULr

[@st200ol]

@ 👍 I watched that one when it was released, very interesting and I agree IOA would be a good idea. The thing is I’m the intelligent part of Agile. The main thing that I always forget is for Agile to be cheaper the car needs to be on the driveway for a significant part of the week that’s not the case for a lot of EV drivers. I’m lucky in that I only have two days a week in the office (120 mile drive each time) most of the rest of the time the car is sat there doing nothing. My Ohme charger works out the cheapest times after I’ve decided it’s worth plugging it in. I won’t tonight though as again the cheapest 1/2 hour slot is still a relatively expensive 15.7p. To answer your question, yes I do believe we will all eventually be on Agile style tariffs, it makes sense as a way to incentivise using power when it’s greenest (cheapest) as we switch away from gas power stations to solar and our true asset, wind. Another topic but I noticed the government are investing in 11 hydrogen generation plants, presumably as a way to convert excess electricity into hydrogen for power stations.

[@grummpz]

When I joined IOG they didn’t support Zappi so I have my car connected. Now the Zappi is supported are there advantages to changing to it?

[@GaryDoesSolar]

I’d say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…

[@Scooby2606]

If you have more than 1 electric car, then yes.

[@allan4787]

I really cannot see how it's worth buying a battery for load shifting the least base cost of a battery is 10p per KWh stored. Add in the cost of the overnight electricity 9.3p per KWh in your example, bringing cost of electricity 19.3p per KWh less than I'm paying on octopus tracker tariff. 10p is more like 20p for Tesla batteries. [Over 10 years] Anyone with a worked example please tell me I'm wrong. BTW if compared with investing money at eg 5% interest the comparison is worse.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

I’ve made quite a few videos on solar and battery ROI that are worth a watch…

[@allan4787]

@GaryDoesSolar I know

[@GrahamF]

EDF Empower blows away all of the Octopus tariffs, with an added incentive of no standing charge. Surprised it's not mentioned? You need to buy a solar installation from EDF/Contact Solar though, however, the latter is an excellent supplier.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

And I think you’ve identified the problem… It’s no good for those who already have a solar installation.

[@iscadean6038]

Eon-next has 7p for 6 hours.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

On their website here it says 6.7p for 7 hours: www.eonnext.com/tariffs/next-drive

[@justinjoanknecht3475]

Been keeping an eye on Tomato but not moving off IOG yet, especially as they don't have a decent SEG yet

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Cheers Justin - and I just noticed as well that Octopus Energy bumped up the export rate on Octopus Go... to 15p now! Competition in the marketplace is good :-)

[@raytait8624]

I've changed to Tomato Energy from Octopus with no regrets so far. You only pay for what you use so no excess money stored in their account clocking up interest.

[@DerekRhoads]

Have them come to Southern California; we need help out here to break up the monopoly.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Be careful what you wish for, Derek :-) Octopus Energy is expanding right across the world... might not be too far away!

[@DerekRhoads]

@@GaryDoesSolar We have no choice out here. Stuck with one provider and they just implemented NEM 3.0 last year.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@DerekRhoads Yeah, the market needs to be opened up there. And soon!

[@allan4787]

At about 8 minutes in on the video you say solar is free... It's really not unless you ignore it costs thousands of pounds to buy and install.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Are you in some kind of bad mood today, Allan?

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

And after it's paid for itself, usually within 10 years.. its free! As in my case 😅

[@allan4787]

@@GaryDoesSolar Not at all just found out that they got all the SCC cells in my recent operation I

[@allan4787]

@@GaryDoesSolar It just doesn't sit well with me that solar is free.

[@allan4787]

@@MikeGleesonazelectrics Not if you take into the cost of money. At least not for my case and I suspect many more. At 78 I need it to pay back in less than 10 years but in Southern Scotland with only a west aspect which is not shaded. Yes it's shaded despite being an old house with 3 floors very high ceilings and a basement. A slate roof I reckoned 33 p per KWh over 10 years. So a complete waste of time

[@olivermeeney1344]

Hi Gary, There is now a way to stop home batteries being charged / discharged. I’ve launched a new product and SaaS called Energie Genie. I’d love to have a chat with you about how it works sometime.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hi Oliver, I'm always interested in new innovate solutions. I took a look at your website, but there's not much information about your actual product - only high-level generic statements about third-party management of solar and battery equipment. If you're happy to send details of your offering to [e-mail] together with a summary of how your new offering differentiates itself in the market, I'll take a look. Cheers, Gary

[@norfolkmustard]

Just noticed the Octopus app has this week stopped showing the details of the IOG scheduled charging slots, so you’ll no longer know if they’ve scheduled outside the core 23:30-05:30 hours.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

From what I've read, this seems to be just a glitch in the way that IOG is managing charging slots for everyone going forward: Although you'll get a charging plan when you plug in your vehicle, that plan may now change in real-time depending on many factors. I think it's a good thing, but it does make it slightly harder for automated home battery management systems (like Home Automation) to keep in sync in order not to drain your home battery into your car.

[@MikeGleesonazelectrics]

Not for me it hasn't..

[@brianridley1102]

Intelligent go really disappointing on the supported cars. MG is close to the top selling range of EV if not the top yet they don't support it, as an MG4 owner it's really disappointing

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Agreed, and it’s one of the reasons Octopus Energy has started their Mercury initiative, to fix all this: octopus.energy/press/project-mercury/

[@michelleflint8389]

When I had my Mg5 I rang them and they set it up, now I have an Mg4 I just left it and it works just fine.

[@brianridley1102]

@michelleflint8389 that's interesting Michelle I will check that out. Their latest web check shows MG still not supported which is bizarre as via their affiliate link they sell MG cars!

[@nickhstd2]

In a perfect world I would like to see a colab with Tesla and Octopus, they both genually (Elon and Greg) want a greener electric future, and I'm all in on that!

[@GaryDoesSolar]

I'd say, be careful what you wish for, Nick 🙂 That cooperation has already started and will grow over time: www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/business/teslas-powerwall-integrated-into-octopus-energys-kraken/

[@allan4787]

But it's cheaper not to do anything

[@stephenshapcott1353]

Thanks for the content Gary. An idea for a new video: As someone who lives in a house without a driveway but also hoping to get an EV I haven’t seen any of the channels I follow do any content on the best ways to charge when you don’t have a driveway… I think this would be a great video! Even better with a suggested tool/ strategies.

[@johnjackson3642]

Elon and Eon would make more sense

[@GaryDoesSolar]

@@allan4787 How so?

[@viniciosguimaraes3310]

Hi guys, I'm from Brazil and in Brazil, the feed in tax are diferent

[@GaryDoesSolar]

Hiya - interesting. Can you say a bit more about that?

[@Paradroid69]

This is an ADVERT not a serious review or comparison - it doesn't state other companies are both cheaper and more flexible with charging hours.

[@GaryDoesSolar]

You're entitled to your view, but I'm not sure you watched much of the video though, given that I mention 4 other companies that provide cheaper tariffs...

[@geoffsztypuljak4365]

I think you’ve put your message on the wrong video. It is a very comprehensive review and several other companies are mentioned. IMHO Gary also mentions the fantastic work that Octopus are pioneering that make renewable energy and balancing the grid put to greater use, here and around the world.