Game Improvement vs Players Irons / Better Distance Control & SHOCKING Wet vs Dry Numbers???

  Рет қаралды 7,058

ELITE FIT GOLF / Mobile Clubmaker

ELITE FIT GOLF / Mobile Clubmaker

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 57
@InwonKim1982
@InwonKim1982 5 ай бұрын
great video. From my personal experience the issue with GI irons are 1. too low spin. 2. because of that low spin, I get flyer explosive carry often. Players irons don't have that issue to me.
@toddwmac
@toddwmac 5 ай бұрын
Fascinating. I might look towards the optics and tracking calculations associated with the launch monitor. I know little about launch monitors, but I doubt they were designed with wet balls in mind. Considering some units rely on optics, and since water can impact the reflectivity of a surface, I would bet there is a chance this could cause some errors. According to the guys at Golf Science Lab - "High speed cameras take multiple images of the ball during that launch and use software in order to calculate the spin rates...." Since the algorithms were not likely designed to deal with increased reflectivity caused by water on the surface, and water droplets leaving the surface of the ball when struck, it would seem you could get some inaccurate readings. Or maybe they were. An interesting puzzle....for sure.
@phil.willoughby
@phil.willoughby 5 ай бұрын
I have an optical launch monitor, and it will report spin numbers that are half of the real spin number in some circumstances. I think I have also seen it report double the real spin number in some cases but that's harder to verify.
@Golf4LifeGrandview
@Golf4LifeGrandview 5 ай бұрын
I did the same test except it was a 3/4 wedge shot, spin went down significantly. The test was on the Foresight GC3
@ronlangfus4946
@ronlangfus4946 5 ай бұрын
Great unbiased video. Give mizuno high marks for iron faces and resistance to water.
@commonman317
@commonman317 5 ай бұрын
On a side note, that studio looks really nice, and the lighting seems perfect. Makes for a great video.
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Ah. I just got to it. 5 degrees less loft!!! So that "7" iron is actually a strong 6, built to 7 iron length. Yet it only hit 5 yards longer. That shows how much effect the low and back centre of gravity had on the launch, because with 5 fewer degrees loft, with that level of ball speed, the extra carry distance should have been at least 9-10 yards maybe more, even without the extra 1/2 inch of length (length affects distance a lot less than loft). Yet it was half that. Test with a 34 degree GI head, and I bet one would get higher launch, more spin, and at that ball speed, probably somewhat less distance. For a higher handicapper with less ball speed, that extra launch and spin probably wouldn't lose as much distance, and might actually stay level or give a bit more distance, especially with the tighter distance dispersion. Those would be interesting tests. 1. Try this with a 25 handicapper. 2. Add an 8 iron head into the mix, shafted and built to about the same length. One would want to adjust the swingweights to make them a little more evenly matched, either by adding a bit of lead tape to the 2 7 irons, or use a lighter weight 8 iron head. Obviously the former is easier to do. But I think the results might be fascinating. But that's testing, right? Each test suggests a new one.
@billsteven3813
@billsteven3813 4 ай бұрын
I've heard experts (Ping Ballnamic people and others) say that roughly 8i is the crossover point for wet ball spin. Wedges spin less with moisture, long irons/driver etc. spin more.
@SchoolHardKnocks
@SchoolHardKnocks 5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. Love to see testing like this one. But can I suggest don’t compare two irons that are 5 degrees in loft. Unless you feel the weight at the bottom on the game improvement is so different than the players iron. Or maybe the golfer is delivering a different dynamic loft at impact because of the weight difference. I am some what shocked that the distances were so close because of 5 degree difference. I get launch angle & peak height, but what about descent angle? I have seen game improvement irons spin less but have higher descent angle. As far as wet vs dry, your test appeared to show more grip/friction on the face & ball interaction when wet. I wonder if the Mizuno groove technology has something to do with it, or perhaps the type of ball (cover material & coating).
@jonbuikema7399
@jonbuikema7399 5 ай бұрын
Good stuff! The optics have to be impacted somehow with wet ball. Low spin on dry balls with 33* forged iron seems odd. Go to a course. Hit balls into a green off the fairway. No monitor. Just see results. Be curious to see. Working the ball is incredibly hard on GI or even players distance clubs for me. Same for trying to flight them lower is harder. My saying is if you want to hit greens GI can work. If you want to hit greens with more accuracy to pins use forged. I had JPX HMP and played well. Back to 923 Forged. Lost almost no distance as face contact is better and have seen much better proximity on greens.
@ericnyysti1920
@ericnyysti1920 5 ай бұрын
I’m a 10 hcp but still play a blade style iron because I can’t adapt to the clunky look and most of all the offset! I know I can’t be alone out there?
@james18paice
@james18paice 5 ай бұрын
Just started playing blades as a 24 hcp for this very reason. Don't seem to be hitting them any worse
@ToddPlaysGolf
@ToddPlaysGolf 5 ай бұрын
My local Muni has this amazing combination of, hard as a rubber mat greens that are also inconsistently slow or fast. No matter what you do, you're bouncing off that sucker, only to putt and it roll 2 feet, then the next putt to roll 15 yds.
@petegalindez9961
@petegalindez9961 5 ай бұрын
I actually owned the JPX 923 HMP…got consistent numbers in the sim when I was fitted…on the course, the front to back dispersion is out of control…upwards of 30 yards…I switched to MP 221s and even though I didn’t hit them as long, they were way more consistent in the real world…front to back was closer to 15 yards…much more manageable. The other issue is it’s hard to test a GI iron with a zero handicap player who knows proper impact…GI clubs are designed with the COG lower because most ams don’t have much, if any, forward shaft lean…so, his ball is contacting the club face above the COG, which gives him more consistent numbers and less of the trampoline effect. Hit some off the bottom and he’ll by flying 200 yards…
@davidlewisTN
@davidlewisTN 5 ай бұрын
Play a ZX5/ZX7 mixed set and very pleased!
@derbananenliebendepavian8721
@derbananenliebendepavian8721 5 ай бұрын
I have two guesses. One is that the golfer subconsciously adapted to the wet setting and adjusted the spin loft. That could also explain the lower launch while the spin goes up. The other guess is that the launch monitor is not very accurate with the wet balls. Like reflections and stuff. The algorithms are adjusted to a dry setup, most probably...
@faisalrkhawaja
@faisalrkhawaja 28 күн бұрын
See the subsequent video with Mr Short Game that discusses the effect of water on mats. Water on the ball should be the same effect.
@ExTrumpet
@ExTrumpet 5 ай бұрын
Interesting wet-ball data...my guess is there's a reading error with the monitor due to the extra reflection properties of water? Regarding style of irons, I definitely get punished a bit on mishits from my s59's vs Ping Rapture J-specs...but I have a lot more pure strikes with the s59's. Maybe due to the sole, shaft, lie angle, or something else--who knows! But, even on pure strikes I get the occasional flyer with the Raptures that I don't see with the s59's.
@winsyong
@winsyong 4 ай бұрын
When we say player’s irons give us better control, we mean we can better hit different distances, different trajectories and different ball flight at will. It’s not about forgiveness that gives you consistency, the player manipulates the ball by how he delivers the club, where on the clubface he wants to strike it and how much speed to apply.
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Interesting that the GI iron launched lower with less spin. Usually it should be the opposite, all other factors being equal, as GI irons generally have lower and further back centres of gravity. That should promote higher launch and more spin. What likely happened here is the GI 7 iron had at least 2-3 degrees less loft, maybe more. That's pretty common with GI sets. Silly practice, since GI sets are intended for higher handicap players who will want higher launch to get up in the air better, and more backspin to help counter sidespin and control the slice action most of them have. To me, strengthening the lofts on GI irons to make them hit farther ends up defeating the purpose of making them easier to hit and easier to be accurate with. But I guess length is what some customers want.
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Hmm. Here's a thought. What kind of balls were you using? Urethane or Ionomer? I wonder if water somewhow makes one of them spin more? Seems unlikely, but maybe worth ruling out. And why are those wet shots launching lower anyway, if they are spinnier? I'd expect a wet ball to slide up the face a bit, and actually launch higher. Then again, I'd also expect them to be more slippery, and therefore less spinny. Testing to see if urethane vs ionomer gave different results might be interesting for a number of reasons, not just for making sure we don't have an unusual variable in the wet test. After all, the GI irons are designed for higher handicappers, many of whom use ionomer balls. And they are supposed to spin less, so it would be interesting to test that. Just throwing thoughts out there.
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Ah. Mizuno tour. So Urethane. I wonder what would happen if you repeated the test with Ionomer balls?
@tnjbrown
@tnjbrown 5 ай бұрын
You need Dechambeau on to talk through this one!
@Drinking_and_Golfing
@Drinking_and_Golfing 5 ай бұрын
Do you think it’s possible to adjust the lie angle of a forged iron to 70 degrees upright?
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 5 ай бұрын
Depends on the brand, model, and where you're starting from.
@mitchy7051
@mitchy7051 5 ай бұрын
hi i was wondering where do you buy the curing station you use for your clubs, it looks like an insulated lunch bag that heats up?
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 5 ай бұрын
Exactly. Bought off Amazon.
@mitchy7051
@mitchy7051 5 ай бұрын
@@EFGMC do you have a link for Amazon? Or name of the heating device?
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 4 ай бұрын
@@mitchy7051 HotLogic lunchbox heater. Around $35
@volkerroh
@volkerroh 5 ай бұрын
Interesting.... I also made the same tests with PRO V1 versus Callaway Super soft. My results were a lot different. Which ball did you use?
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 5 ай бұрын
Mizuno Tour
@stiffdrinkmime366
@stiffdrinkmime366 5 ай бұрын
So the ball and clubface were wet, but the ground was dry. Maybe the friction between the ground and ball makes a difference?
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 4 ай бұрын
Hmmm. This is an idea. Mats typically drop the spin numbers and never really thought about why until now Possibly the mat grabs the ball just slightly at contact and negates some of the backspin that would otherwise be produced. With the wet ball (and slightly wet turf because of it) possibly the turf now has less friction against the ball so the spin numbers act more like natural grass spin numbers. ???
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Hmm. More thoughts. Maybe for some reason the wet balls are actually gripping more and spinning more. So they are LESS prone to slide up the face, and launch lower, but still carry out pretty high (the GI clubs lost no height, and the Players only a few feet) because of increased spin?? Does that work? But if so, howinell does the water make them stickier??????? There's something not quite right here. 🤨
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 4 ай бұрын
This doesn't make sense. This just doesn't add up. And the more I look through other comments, the more I think others are on the right track here. There's likely a problem with the spin readings here. That LM being used here looks a lot like a camera based unit. I used one like that some years ago. Yes, optical interference, like from reflection, can interfere with them. Those who have suggested that on here are probably on the right track. Checking these observations outside where actual ball flight can be observed is the way to go, I think.
@seanbaines
@seanbaines 5 ай бұрын
Spin went up with wet?? And lower launch?? Not what I would have expected either. That's a question for a top clubhead design engineer, for sure.
@muehlemannfilms
@muehlemannfilms 4 ай бұрын
Wow if my spin would be so low with a blade id be concerned tbh :-/ to stop balls on firm greens.
@jamesmc81
@jamesmc81 4 ай бұрын
Don't like super distance irons. Very hard to get the gapping right. You start the yardage with a monster pw distance and then everything goes the same distance 6 iron up
@amalfi460
@amalfi460 5 ай бұрын
Test in the grass
@EldredMerricks
@EldredMerricks 5 ай бұрын
So I know this video is about the irons but I’m looking at someone who has 82 club speed with a 125 BALL SPEED??? Help it make sense for me? I NEED to be there in my life!!!
@phill8504
@phill8504 4 ай бұрын
And a very smooth swing….. effortless power. He was trying to hole out I don’t want to say a guided swing, but definitely focused
@industrialpalletworx3548
@industrialpalletworx3548 3 ай бұрын
His angle of attack (AOA) was very shallow producing lower spin numbers. That lower spin coupled with the shallow AOA produces that higher ball speed. He had several carry 169 range but roll out to the high 180's. That's not going to stop on most greens. The spin should have been in the 7k range. Notice with the wet ball his spin went up and his carry was shorter. Tour average AOA for a 7 iron is in the -4.5*. I would love to have seen his numbers but I bet it was really close to -1 to 0. I'm a bit too steep in my downswing and my 7 iron will stop within 2-3 yards. Unfortunately because I'm too steep the carry isn't what it should be. but my spin numbers are solid, 6k range.
@bjs1130
@bjs1130 5 ай бұрын
Does your partner in the video play a longer than standard club? If NOT....He needs to!
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 5 ай бұрын
1/2 over usually
@nickbryan217
@nickbryan217 5 ай бұрын
Game improvement irons because of weight distribution are harder to work the ball left and right because they’re designed to compensate for off center hits. They also typically spin less than players irons which is where you can get some distance variance…
@perlangefors5304
@perlangefors5304 5 ай бұрын
This is inaccurate.
@nickbryan217
@nickbryan217 5 ай бұрын
@@perlangefors5304 in this dumbass demonstration he spun the GI clubs 500-600 rpm less…. Muscle backs typically have higher lofts as much as 6-7 degrees more loft compared to their GI counterparts…. You will typically spin them a lot more than GI irons…. I know science and math are hard
@CybekCusal
@CybekCusal 4 ай бұрын
I wish people would stop saying RPMs. It's incorrect and painful to listen to. Revolutions per minutes is incorrect. It's just RPM, revolutions per minute.
@SlimShady-hk8qp
@SlimShady-hk8qp 4 ай бұрын
Cool numbers but none of those game improvement shots are holding an actual green. I'd rather be putting
@ronniekilburn8567
@ronniekilburn8567 5 ай бұрын
Can I suggest doing this same research using an extremely high handicap hacker like myself?
@bkf22002
@bkf22002 5 ай бұрын
Guys is a really low spin player. I believe this is what's causing the strange numbers.
@nickbryan217
@nickbryan217 5 ай бұрын
4600 rpm is quite low for a blade 7 iron…. Wasn’t as surprised by the GI club being in the 4000s but that’s still low for as hard as he hits the ball… 120 ballspeed with a blade 7 iron is quick
@EFGMC
@EFGMC 5 ай бұрын
He has a lot of forward shaft lean so his dynamic loft is far lower than mine.
@landonvanhorn592
@landonvanhorn592 5 ай бұрын
You cant make any reasonable conclusions on this test. A) 10 shots with each isnt a big enough sample size, and B) this must be done on real grass, with real results, not “simulated” results. To really test this, you need hundreds and thousands of shots with various lies and with elite level striking. The wet ball thing is weird, probably an error with the LM reading the data, but we know that a wet ball decreases friction, increases launch and decreases spin.
@rajanketell9545
@rajanketell9545 5 ай бұрын
What a waste of time!
@kalindatchev994
@kalindatchev994 5 ай бұрын
Why, I thought it was an interesting demonstration. Most KZbin tests are arguably a waste of time since it's not us ourselves hitting the ball. This one was shorter and more fun than most so I like it :)
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