Game Of The Year 2023 (Building The List) - The MinnMax Show

[@minnmax]

Unlock the unedited grand finale of our debate and the bonus post-show "Pissy Zone" breakdown discussion by supporting MinnMax at the $10 Backstage Pass tier! www.patreon.com/minnmax

[@shambolic8539]

Thank you, Kelsey, for expressing the appropriate level of bewilderment at the group's overall opinion on Mario Wonder.

[@MichaelROLeary]

My favorite part was this year's discussion was the slow zoom on Jacob's frozen face.

[@pkstarstorm8856]

Thank you Kelsey for fighting for the best jrpgs

[@quiet451]

The collective dislike from this crew for Super Mario Wonder is the most surprising take.

[@smellywaffels1967]

Nintendo needs new IP's. I get Mario and Zelda are usually different than the one before but there's only so much interest for those characters. I know I'm personally tired of them to the point I skipped Zelda TOTK.

[@SwobyJ]

It wasn't a collective dislike though. It was 'well maybe it wasn't necessarily the collectively shared top 10 or maybe 20 of this fantastic and competitive year'. Clearly for more than one of the group, Wonder was one of *their* Top 10 games, but when others haven't played it, or had the same experience, that's when they're invited to take the gloves off and start arguing. It did great for a new 2d Mario game. But we also expect a lot out of Mario, it wasn't their big flagship title like Odyssey (we'll see the next one within the next few years, for the new console), and this was a tough year for Top X type discussions (not so much the single GOTY itself). Just as like, if GTAVI releases early 2025, it'll be a massively tough year to sell your AAA game within that window. Sometimes stuff's harder, and while Wonder was very enjoyed, and impressed some, it also didn't 'wow' all the people like you'd hope Mario games can. People who wanted it and wanted to like it, generally did, at the very least. But not all wanted it, not all cared much about liking it, and not all played it.

[@joeyisabsb1]

Kelsey is the mvp every year for these 😆

[@morank3]

On my feet applauding for Leo jumping in first in line to put Hitman at the top of the list haha. He got me to pick that game up again this month and damn I'd forgotten how much I love it, what a gem. Great discussion with a fantastic spread of games!

[@nogrannydontplays]

Definitely need to get some back up for Kelsey and the love for JRPGs

[@zephyr9847]

Crazy to me how into FFVII Ben is, and yet he could just care less about any other jrpg lol.

[@Jerler91]

I think it really just comes down to how much time these games take to finish. He loved LiveAlive

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

Couldn’t care less*

[@thatoneguy1821]

Popping in the comments just to say: Leo’s passion for Hitman (earlier in the year) caused me to pick up the World of Assassination trilogy. And it gave me hours of fun! It’s easily a game I see myself revisiting at random multiple times in the future. Thanks Leo!

[@TevorTheThird]

Weird thing I've noticed this GOTY season; it's 2023 and we're still doing the whole "Disclaimer: These are our opinions. Opinions exist. Stop freaking out people on the internet." But, like, more so than usual? Is the internet getting worse? Are creators needing to be extra emphatic about this kind of messaging this year then usual? Are people really so stupid that they don't know what an opinion is? You'd think the longer people are exposed to the internet the more they'd understand that it's filled with voices that aren't theirs. There are actually grown humans these days who were born long after it became common place, they have no excuse. So three cheers for Minnmax, thanks for the show and don't worry about people who can't understand that water is wet. I'm listening to see what you folk liked. I already know the games I liked.

[@Chicken008]

Covid broke everyone's brain.

[@ChichiNaka]

a similar disclaimer has been at the start of every opinion online for the last 30 years, 'people' are dumb, when you're talking to more than a small group of friends there's bound to be a couple idiots

[@klaymation]

I think maybe it's a result of their audience getting bigger, in addition to the stuff you mentioned.

[@smellywaffels1967]

Let's be honest, they say it because of the Nintendo fans. They send death threats if you don't act like everything Nintendo is the most amazing thing ever. Look at all the comments crying about them not liking Mario Wonder.

[@ChichiNaka]

@@smellywaffels1967 Final Fantasy fans are right there with them, big AAA brained fans can't conceptualize a world where an FF game and Mario come out and aren't goty material Same thing last year when Fire Escape laughed god of war 2 out of the building before dropping it from their list

[@MissEvieYT]

Really appreciated the love for Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood! really blew me away when I played it. Obviously it's a pretty niche game but it might have been my favorite indie of the year; what I like about it in additional to the emotional depth and maturity is the way that you are kind of constructing your own narrative in a very, like, noticeable way, where the choices you make are having constant, fairly dramatic impacts on the narrative.

[@lukemoonwalker8444]

I find it a bit baffling that a game that had a pubblic apology released before it even came out (Cities Skylines 2), that released in a problematic state, which Sarah was okay cutting because she acknowledged it would get better with time, made the list, but two great games like Humanity and Pikmin 4 were left behind. Imho Kyle really undersold Pikmin 4, it doesn't just fix issues with the previous Pikmin games, you look at Oatchi and you think "Oh cute, they added a dog to make it more appealing!" and while it helps, Oatchi is so much more than that. Oatchi is your progress catalyzer, most of the upgrades you find in the game are applied to Oatchi and it builds this perfect sense of progression the other games really didn't have. On top of that the undergrounds sections having a slower timer creates a wonderful balance between the rush of having to do everything as quickly as possible on the surface and having to deal with more precise tasks in more complex levels in the underground. This is also one of the few games I really wanted to 100%, and it didn't felt like I went out of my way to do so, it all felt integral to the journey of my rescuer.

[@mindful_nerd4676]

Thanks for this opinion. Enjoyed the demo but wasn’t sure on biting the bullet

[@thatoneguy1821]

I really loved Pikmin 4. But I don’t know. I think it’s a stretch for it to make it on this list based on the discourse. And really, for me, it was just another Pikmin game. I’ve been a HUGE fan of the series since the start, so that’s not a knock. And this was my favorite of the bunch since the original. But I actually don’t think it did much of anything that separates it from the other games. And personally, I thought the best part was playing Captain Olimar’s story - which reintroduced most the mechanics of the first game.

[@Stampede_Gaming]

Already watched but commenting to say I really appreciate that you allow everyone to give a shoutout to all their games they are bringing. Over 100 games!

[@fotografick]

100 games worth checking out! What a year for gaming! Some real hidden gems in there.

[@TheCanipaEffect]

Bless Kelsey for getting Octopath Traveler 2 on there! I kinda feel like Xenoblade 3 Future Redeemed is more a package deal with X3 itself that gives a lot more closure, but not having Octopath 2 on the list would be a massive miss. A generational JRPG with excellent character writing and mechanics that finally delivers the experience people hoped for out of the first game.

[@Jaynna09]

Haley is such a joy. The barking was hilarious and so fitting for that moment.

[@luisg.m.garcia6972]

Let´s gooo i haven´t even played any game released this year but i always come back to these when im looking for games to buy on discount

[@paulsanchez001]

I felt so bad about jeffm not wanting to put starfield on even the honorable mentions list because he didn't want to get dog piled. I had no idea the minnmax crew was so meh about mario wonder, when it was talked about on the show it seemed like it was mostly positive and the crew hadn't played much yet so my thoughts were it was gonna land on the 2 tens no problem.

[@thatoneguy1821]

The very nature of these discussions are brutal. It’s hard to be passionate about something and then listen to people make fun of it / criticize it to death. And I think MinnMax is a little weird in how they do their lists. They want everyone to feel represented, which means one VERY passionate defender can land their favorite high on the list even if no one else thought it was their thing (cough xenoblade 3 cough), while at the same time, if everyone was slightly disappointed by a game, they don’t want represented anywhere on the list even if it has some passionate defenders (Starfield & Mario Wonder). I think they almost need to go a different route. Like have everyone disclose their favorites in advance and then have the group collectively play 10 hours or so, so that it really is a collective representation. Or just make sure everyone has one of their outlier choices included, despite the group’s feel 🤷‍♂️

[@AlexP-es7ky]

Goddamn I’m so excited to watch this, been waiting for the 2 tens for weeks now😭😭

[@itsalolmor]

I honestly don't get AT ALL the hate on Final Fantasy XVI. Such a great game: fantastic graphics and animations, fun combat and such a great, well-written script. Top-notch English writing. And on top of that, a few incredible characters and such strong voice acting all around. Definitely in my top 5 this year.

[@jonathanbaird]

I think the lack of mechanical depth and poor side content really damages an entry of a franchise that has historically done a commendable job at such things. It’s a perfectly fine game, just not the best Final Fantasy imo.

[@fotografick]

The fact that you could just spam the same attacks over and over without dying once made it a very bland combat system. The story is dry and lacking the lighthearted elements of other final fantasy games. I understand it is an action game and not an RPG, but such an abrupt change in such a great RPG series is really disappointing.

[@MarkPTP7000]

For me, it's mostly the story. They said they recognised the FF fanbase was grown up now and promised a story for adults, and the first 10 hours or so made me believe we were about to get that, only for it to descend into a shallow Shonen tale that I feel I've seen so many times before. It had peak FF spectacle, but not much of the substance. The combat started off promising too, especially fun making use of advanced techniques like Heatwave Counter, but as you unlock more powers it's basically just a case of building up Odin's weapon, staggering the enemy, unleashing Odin power and unleashing all your powerful cooldowns, which is very boring. So there's no use learning to play the game in a more advanced way - sure, you play more advanced still, but how satisfying is it when you do so much less damage. I honestly wish I liked it more. Something about it just lacked that FF magic, which even some of the worse games in the series still has.

[@drakeheinhorst3312]

I think Dead Space Remake got short changed in the arguments. They ignored the fact that many of the weapons were completely reworked, the zero g movement was updated, they redid all of the voicelines including giving Isaac a voice. Many environments were reworked. And all these changes actually managed to be improvements to an already amazing game.

[@brucewayne404]

Yeah Jacob's claim that it was exactly the same as the original outside of a few layout changes was factually incorrect. Also a little disingenuous considering he said he played the original ten times.

[@falcon030]

Obviously they're not much of a 2D platforming crowd but no Blasphemous 2 mention hurts, one of the best metroidvania's out there. Honorable mention to Afterimage. And for a hidden gem roguelike: Astral Ascent

[@burnout713]

It is pretty insane than with over 100 entries Blasphemous 2 wasn't even mentioned.

[@quiet451]

Blasphemous 2 is so so good. Did none of these 9 fine people play it at all?

[@burnout713]

@@quiet451 I think Geller at least played a little.

[@JonnyBriers]

@@burnout713 i swear he loved it???

[@jeffreyrommel4659]

This group doesn't tend to like "hard" games

[@GamingInTheWild]

Good list. JeffM's reluctance to fight for Starfield made me sad. A lot of people loved it, the toxic discourse and media narrative shouldn't crush that! That game needs a champion!

[@coreymaurer862]

Agreed. But he had to be goaded into fighting for Mario. It’s not his personality it seems. This kind of forum doesn’t work in his case, while others can just steamroll in with whatever they want.

[@GamingInTheWild]

@@coreymaurer862 Yeah. Ben as a host knew there was some heat in a Starfield debate, but JeffM straight refused to take it on. Starfield belongs in a 2023 list though, more than freaking... House Flipper 2 or whatever. Even if it's number 20!

[@inter-loper]

I didn't expect Talos Principle 2 or Blasphemous 2 making it into the two tens, but not even a mention? Damn. Talos is GOTY material for sure. Great show nonetheless ofc.

[@shawnneal6499]

100%. Jacob actually talked up Blasphemous 2 in a previous episode. Talos Principle 2 also top 10 for me.

[@markm5927]

I think they both made it into the 'games that are probably great but we didn't play' section of the minnmax awards episode.

[@b_traven]

Sarah not offering to remove House Flipper 2 lmao

[@smellywaffels1967]

Her list this year was so bad. The best year ever in gaming and two of her picks are House Flipper 2 and Fashion Designer smh.

[@guitaraobscura8802]

very enjoyable watch. I feel like cities skylines 2 shouldve been challenged a bit more tho, it seemed to have a shield around it in the last section since texas chainsaw and mario wonder were mainly on the chopping block even though sarah said she was fine dropping skylines 2

[@thatoneguy1821]

Mario Wonder is the first 2D Mario I’ve liked since Super Mario World (including that weird hybrid Super Mario 3D World). It is absolutely INSANE that Kelsey & JeffM had to fight as hard for that as they did. Based on the discourse and the level of passion, Tchia seemed like an easy one to go. It sounds like everyone enjoyed the idea and general vibe of it, but at no point did it illicit any passion. And it seems everyone recognized the game missions were actually very mid. Anyway, fun listen. I always feel that MinnMax ends up having the weirdest Top Games list of any collective group

[@ChichiNaka]

I've never enjoyed a nintendo game outside of Pokemon(I get it, not nintendo but I have to own all their handhelds/consoles for it) Is there some defining factor in what a good 2D side scrolling nintendo game is vs a bad one? there's been so much talk of this being "the first good 2D mario game since 1992" but as an outsider who doesn't play them, my 2D experience is limited to more Dead Cells/Hollow Knight/Blasphemous/Ori type stuff, every single Yoshi/Mario/Kirby/Donkey Kong side scrolling first party game looks more or less the same. And especially after something like Mario Maker where fans were creating levels more complex than nintendo ever would/could for a mass audience of kids, whats the draw back to curated games? is it as simple as HOLY POGGERS I CAN TURN INTO AN ELEPHANT/CAT or is there some major thing I'm missing? obviously it's a dumb weird question, I can understand the difference between yearly cod installments when they're 99% the same game for a decade I'm just looking for someone to word it

[@thatoneguy1821]

@@ChichiNaka Not a dumb / weird question. But also, not sure I can really answer it. I don’t think there’s a single characteristic. It’s more of a feel. Both with how the character controls and interacts with the environment, and with the level design. A good Mario is just fun and the controls are slick and polished so that it feels great to navigate. For me, the New Super Mario series was a miss all around. They felt like cheap imitations of prior games and they didn’t innovate on anything. Mario 3D World didn’t work for me, bc the hybrid 2D / 3D layout never clicked for me. From a navigation standpoint, it just never felt right. (The gameplay itself also didn’t click with me). And Mario Maker was great at giving players a chance to design their own levels… but it also highlighted just how masterful Nintendo is at level design, bc none of the player created levels felt like genuine Mario levels. Mario Wonder packs a TON of creativity and new ideas into every level. The animation is fluid and has a polish that feels more reminiscent of an actual cartoon than a video game. You have freedom to navigate the world however you’d like and it just feels great! Similarly, I’d say that Metroid Dread gave that series a fluidity and feel that finally made that series click for me. (By the way, the Ori games also have a similar fluidity, feel and polish - so it’s not just Nintendo) I do agree that Wonder lacks the challenge that previous entries had. That’s probably the one criticism I have of it. But otherwise, there’s just something magical and fun about a good Mario.

[@smellywaffels1967]

It's not insane. How many decades of a plumber hitting bricks with his head is enough? Other devs are surpassing Nintendo. I liked Sackboy way better than Mario Wonder.

[@thatoneguy1821]

@@smellywaffels1967 Sackboy is a 3D platformer. Apples to Oranges

[@saotiago]

Glad SHADOW GAMBIT got a shoutout. So fun. Kelsey, Sarah and Jacob mentioned pretty much all of my other faves. Really cool discussion all around.

[@MG_Gambino]

No matter what ends up on top, I got rocked this whole year. I got jabbed from Nintendo with Tears. Kicked to the nuts by Spider-man 2. Hooked by Hi-Fi Rush. Uppercut by Street Fighter 6. Everybody brought it and if I didn't hit the lottery earlier this year I most certainly would've been broke from games. This year was a crazy year for games. I don't know if it's the best year but it's definitely one of the better years for sure. 2024 is looking to continue that wave and I might go broke by March (hopefully not). Happy Holidays everyone.

[@carlosflores-gaytan1589]

Thank goodness we at least had Kelsey and Jeff willing to defend Super Mario Wonder

[@the9thinning1]

Honestly I was flabbergasted

[@NeillSmith]

Honestly it should have been cut. It wouldn't make the two tens based on the individual top 10 lists. The highest it placed on any individual list was 5th.

[@alexleach9133]

Games have evolved since 1985 so it doesn’t really do much for me. I can only run and jump so many times before im ready for something more

[@Chicken008]

I'd rather see Pikmin up there.

[@shambolic8539]

@@NeillSmith But it has two strong advocates, which is more than several other games on the list with only one advocate. It clearly earned its spot.

[@mwmrhdm]

A few observations: 1. Street Fighter 6 might be the best fighting game ever made. 2. Octopath Traveler 2 is a modern classic. 3. Dead Space was overshadowed by RE4make but it's also one of the best remakes of all time. Bonus: Persona 5 Tactica best soundtrack of 2023

[@0FFICERPROBLEM]

shame Dead Space remake has a bad PC version. it's technically decent on consoles apparently, but not perfect.

[@rinaldus4512]

Just jumping in to say FFXVI was my GotY. And that maybe we need to set up a support group for fans of this game.

[@MysteriousMrL]

I think I feel about FFXVI how Jeffm feels about Starfield. It's a game that I wouldn't want to bring up for discussion, while quietly putting it near the top of my personal list.

[@jacoblief8263]

I started playing it recently. I've put about 5-6 hours in, and I love it so far.

[@the9thinning1]

The slow zoom on Jacobs frozen video killed me 😂

[@thatoneguy1821]

Have you guys considered doing the two 10’s in a slightly different way? I enjoy these discussions and ultimately don’t care how the list ends up. BUT… It seems very weird to me that there’s this semi-rule that someone can include a game no one else played if they’re super passionate about it. While at the same time, another game that has a super passionate fan is discounted bc the rest of the group was disappointed by it or just felt it was okay. Honest question (and something to think through): Why is it that Xenoblade 3 could crack the top 3 spot (last year) based off one person’s passion, but Starfield can’t make the top 20 based off another person’s passion. I get that the group as a whole didn’t respond well to Starfield. But my counter point would be that the group as a whole wouldn’t have responded well to Xeno 3 either, bc it wasn’t anyone else’s genre. In other words: Xeno 3 isn’t anymore representative of MinnMax than Starfield. But it’s given a huge handicap bc no one else like the genre It just seems that you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. And as a result, the end product is weirdly not representative of anyone? Might I suggest, with 9 staff represented in the group, that you collectively agree upon 11 of the games and then allow each person one dark horse entry? You can of course battle it out for where those land still. But it seems weirdly off balance where some people have a game that is just representative of them and others have theirs pushed aside (Starfield, Dead Space Remake) Note: This would also force people to really decide what game they want on the list. If you get one dark horse spot, and a big AAA game that you want isn’t represented, you might have to decide between that indie darling and the bigger / more obvious choice for your spot.

[@-nomi.-]

jacob telling ben to defend ff16 to just destroy it was cold-blooded 💀

[@JacobGeller]

😈

[@habadasheryjones]

Does anyone else miss the multiple day Giant Bomb deliberations regarding game of the year where everyone on the panel grew to hate one another by the end of it?

[@dickthebirthdayboy2132]

No.

[@drumroll7552]

No, these game listings sucks and I wish they would just focus on celebrating games instead of fighting over them

[@tommyroyer6633]

@@drumroll7552I wish there was more celebrating too-from most outlets at least. I like how NoClip did it this year

[@jkdeadite]

I am 2 minutes in, and I can't believe the panel doesn't fully agree with my very specific preferences. Why I'm so mad I could engage with this content!

[@usedfuzzbox]

My fave GOTY show, the two tens is just so worth waiting for, I genuinely have the popcorn out and ready to go!!!

[@IfYouSeekCaveman]

I'm super surprised how easy everyone seems to think Cocoon is. I've played some pretty tricky puzzle games like Myst and The Witness, and while Cocoon was nowhere near as difficult as those games, it was still very engaging. I'd compare it to Portal or Inside. It wants you to feel clever solving the puzzles but it's not so difficult that you'll get stuck often. I played the whole game in one sitting and by the end my brain felt fried.

[@hermes_job_observer144]

Happy New Year! Thank you (@3:24:54:), Minnmax!! Here's to another year of awesome content! 🍾🍷 Much Love to All. 🤙

[@Fanmanhandle]

Love the slow zoom in to Jacob’s face at 3:25:39

[@scottyben191]

It was great and its at 2:50:57. Fixed it for ya.

[@IHJello]

When youre at a party and the edibles hit

[@writersneverdie4217]

Props to Leo for showing The Finals some love! I, too, live life between rounds of The Finals right now. Best competitive FPS in years, for me.

[@wolborg105]

Wild amount of great games this year. Like, the amount of good games released this year would have been like a 5 year span of great games at any other point. So many great titles that people forgot or had no time for other great titles!

[@JediNinjaMagician]

I can't believe Wanted Dead didn't make the list.

[@bettydougherty7392]

No Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty in the entire list (unless I missed something) is wild

[@chodetalker3159]

I had inserted a memory in my head about them talking about it because of that initial segment when they talked about including games that had a "game-changing update". I just assumed naturally that they were talking about Cyberpunk. When I read this comment, I had to go back and look at the list and see that it wasn't there... crazy.

[@aneru9396]

And so, Dwarf Fortress completes its fall into the void. Further cementing Sarah's Awesome game of the year Power. GG

[@AREAlhero]

Loved seeing In Stars and Time get brought up! It has the best character writing of any game I played this year, with a deceptively simple but so genius turn-based combat design. It's my game of the year behind TotK, so I hope people give it a shot!

[@X5J2UY]

I don't expect this game to be on the list, because of the terrible state at release, but I just finished Jedi:Survivor. What a game! Wasn't a big fan of the first one, but this sequel impressed me so much. The best mix of Uncharted and Metroidvania I've ever played. Also easily my favorite Star Wars game not named KotoR. Especially the level design was so impressive.

[@ChichiNaka]

Is there anything that makes it stand out from the first one or just the design of everything improving? I listen to games podcasts countless hours a month and I can't think of a single thing I've heard mentioned about it and the first one was forgetable

[@coreymaurer862]

@@ChichiNaka the few gaming pods (besides this one) that I listen to, loved it and have it in their top 5. Depends what you’re listening to.

[@X5J2UY]

@@ChichiNaka I'd definitely say that the metroidvania level design is just leagues above the first game. Obviously, it builds on a lot of things that the first game introduced, as it's a sequel. And as I mentioned, I thought the first one was alright. Especially, the level design was fairly simple and a lot of it felt repetitive. This sequel has a better story (with some legit surprises) and the combat feels better (even though I feel like it still has some issues), but the star of the show is the level design (to me). You have 3 planets and Koboh, by far the biggest one, has so much to discover and small surprises everywhere that I was genuinely wow-ed multiple times. Puzzles are also a lot more engaging. Another thing that stood out are the characters and relationships you build. Tons of optional dialogue and just a lot more engaging than in the first game. To me, it's easily the best realized Star Wars "thing" I've engaged with in over a decade. I just bought that game a month ago for 30 bucks and it's definitely the biggest surprise of the year to me. I came in with low expectations and at the end, it was easily in my top 5. Some technical issues (mostly visual ones) and some combat stuff are the main reason it's not in my top 3. It's the perfect baby between Uncharted, Metroidvania and Star Wars.

[@ChichiNaka]

@@X5J2UY Thank you!

[@lukemoonwalker8444]

We need to get Ben to go trough Spongebob somehow.

[@OMGLX]

Sub to the Hall of Heroes level and put a different SpongeBob gif up there every week until he's seen the whole thing. 😋

[@Deol1194]

Im just gonna leave this here for Ben, Janet and anyone else who reads this; Bayonetta Origins is the best game Platinum has ever made and i expect will build a large cult around it similar to how Wonderful 101 did a decade prior.

[@habadasheryjones]

As someone who just Platinumed Bayonetta 1 and forgot Origins even existed I have a hard time believing Origins is better than Bayo, Nier Automata, MGR, and Vanquish.

[@Deol1194]

@@habadasheryjones I've played all those, except Nier which is more a Yoko Taro game, and yup Bayonetta Origins is better.

[@habadasheryjones]

@@Deol1194 If its anything like the demo included in Bayo 3 I really doubt that. What does it have that gives it the edge?

[@Deol1194]

@@habadasheryjones 1. Combat does dual protag better than Astral Chain. It also doesn't just feel like a reskinned Bayonetta like a lot Platinum games often do. 2. The presentation and vibes are out of this world. The story in Bayonetta has just been white noise to me but here, it's actually a well told magical girl anime. 3. The vertical nature of the world design gave me strong Dark Souls 1 vibes. Not as good mind you but it's the first time in years that anything reminded me of that feeling. I will say as a negative, the game has one of the worst, meaning hardest to read, maps I've ever seen. 4. No bullshit space harrier gimmick levels. Except maybe the last boss which is incredible. 5. The tightness of its scope reminded me of a PS2 games. It's almost all killer no filler. There's some metroidvania exploration that you can partake in, but otherwise this is a 15 hour long game that doesn't waste any time.

[@habadasheryjones]

@@Deol1194 But I like campy outrageousness of those reskinned Bayo games. The lack of a space harrier gimmick is a plus. I just find the look of the combat and camera position to not be what I'm looking for in a game by Platinum. I might give it a shot if I find it on sale (if its even a game Nintendo if deems sale worthy).

[@ryanwidmer5311]

You know what's insane? That 9 people could list a Top 100+ of the year and manage to not include The Talos Principle 2, one of the best puzzle games of all time that expanded its world and story into new thematic directions and was amazing to the very end.

[@eb2681]

Wow lotta good games this year, I guess.

[@NoFairiesAllowed]

I think Kyle mentioned it when he was saying cocoon was his favorite puzzle game of the year.

[@idakev]

These lists are just popularity contests, I suppose. Puzzle games don't tend to get the respect they deserve either. At least Chants of Sennaar got some love but TTP2 is the better game.

[@ryanwidmer5311]

@@eb2681 No, not a lot of good games. When you get down to #87 and listing Forspoken, a game that was mocked for how bad it was, you're just willfully ignorant about the existence of The Talos Principle 2 in general.

[@mick9707]

@@ryanwidmer5311 Kyle thinks Cocoon handily outdoes Talos Principle 2 as a puzzle game.

[@Maxbeedo2]

Always enjoy these discussions and getting to hear elevator pitches for dozens of games I didn't get to. Shout out to Chained Echoes, which came out too late for anyone to play it last year, and it's similar-but-better than Sea of Stars in many ways despite being made by one person. It's in my top 3 for the year. Also Horizon Forbidden West: Burning Shores... exists. Not actually salty about that not being mentioned, it was fine though, had some cool moments, interesting story ramifications, and a great final boss fight.

[@burnout713]

Glad there are at least some people out there championing Chained Echoes. I don't like it quite as much as Octopath Traveler II, but it is up there among the great JRPGs I've ever played.

[@pkuvincentsu]

So glad Kyle is giving Wo Long some spotlight, even if it didn't make the upper crust. It's a slightly flawed game but man is it fun. Combat is truly great. I fear the cultural barrier is just too great for Western media to give it any attention.

[@TheFizzjunior]

I agree. Mechanically, it's just a boat load of fun because how kinetic and fast paced the combat is. Lies of P feels very deliberately paced for players who want that. While Wo Long is over in the corner doing backflips. Like dude we gotta wreck Lu Bu!

[@fireant353]

Game is ages less mechanically dense than Team Ninja's previous souls-adjacent action game offering, Nioh 2. As a fan of their games for at least a decade, I was personally very let down by Wo Long. I put about 4 hours in and just couldn't fall in love with it like I did with Nioh 2. Would you say that the combat opens up after you reach that gorgeous green hub area? That was where I stopped, maybe one mission after that.

[@manwithastick8756]

I will say despite the mild poohpoohing Wo Long got, I gotta say it is the closest I have ever gotten to actually completing a Souls-adjacent game. I got to the final boss and kinda gave up, but I got into it in a way that I never did with Sekiro or other Fromsoft games (besides Armored Core, but that's practically in an entirely different genre). There's just so much charm in how campy the treatment it gives to the Romance of the Three Kingdoms mythology. I really respect Koei Tecmo for really swinging for the fences with new properties this year in a sea of remasters/remakes/sequels, even if they weren't resounding successes.

[@pkuvincentsu]

@@manwithastick8756 Oh yes! People say the story is nonsense, but I find it so fun and yes campy. They surprisingly made all the major characters still recognizable, while telling this crazy demon focused tale. Koei's treatment of the Three Kingdoms is almost always a blend of the history and the novel, leaning more to the real history. And as a fan of the historical figures (Cao Cao and Sun Quan especially) I just love their version. The final boss is quite difficult the first time, but also really fun. But no harm in dropping the game if you get the most enjoyment out of it anyway.

[@pkuvincentsu]

@@fireant353 Wo Long is definitely less dense than Nioh 2, which is one of my favorite games of all time. To be fair almost no game out there is as dense as Nioh 2. Nioh 2 is 10/10, while WL is probably 8.5 to 9 to me. But Wo Long has some subtle depths than at first glance. I find it more fun to mix up a lot of spells and martial arts in combat. TN also improved the combat with updates, like adding martial art slots to weapons and giving each weapon group new mechanics. Give it a try again sometime. Maybe you'll enjoy it more.

[@Draffut2003]

Jumped ahead. Saw Hitman Freelancer at the top. Can't stop laughing.

[@QuestMode]

I can’t wait to play the upper crust of dunky bubblers

[@rflyingfox]

Outstanding job, Minnmax team! You're the sole creators I support on Patreon, precisely for top-tier content like this. Love seeing the whole gang dive into 2023's best games. Keep rocking it. Regards from Switzerland.

[@minnmax]

Thanks for your support!

[@tommyroyer6633]

Saying Octopath traveler 2 and the Zenoblade 3 dlc look the same is one of the wildest video game takes I’ve heard in a while

[@MrPokefan124]

Man I knew the Two Tens this year were gonna be bloody but that was wild. Can't wait to see how it all ends, I'm anticipating some drag down knock out brawls next week! (totally agree with most about Mario wonder btw that game is a consistent 7-8/10 but never blew my mind, and I 100%ed it)

[@vyris2663]

No Cyberpunk? Everyone I know jumped back in and loved it. It topped the Steam charts for weeks.

[@paulmcintyre6857]

I agree, but it's their list.

[@hododod246]

Cyberpunk blew me away. And I am not huge cdpr and witcher fan. Witcher 3 was okay for me.

[@fotografick]

After loving the Witcher 3, I found cyberpunk very disappointing. Visually it looks good though

[@dmtgallardo]

Agreed. Actually one of the “News Of the Year” to me was seeing Cyberpunk return in full force again. Truly a comeback story

[@comrade_snarky]

Pikmin 4, Dead Space, and FF16 not making the cut is truly unhinged. At least Kelsey and Jeffm were there to save Mario Wonder. Good lord.

[@Magic7ball]

seriously. every list needs to be the same, or else... what are we doing?

[@Profecy02]

Thank you for the podcast Minmaxx!

[@abevigoda819]

Nearly 4 hours of discussing the games of 2023 and no mention of Blasphemous 2. That’s blasphemy!

[@burnout713]

Huge oversight.

[@rickycoogan4000]

Totally! I’m a hardcore metroidvania fan, blasphemous is top tier.

[@Chicken008]

Crazy how much Ben hates Pikmin 4. Pikmin 4 is GotY material, up there with Zelda.

[@ChichiNaka]

GOTY/Games media is contending with a lot of 35-40 year old mens nostalgia for what they knew as kids

[@mikeharris2952]

I don’t think there’s another 2023 awards show where Bayo Origins gets brought up before Starfield, God of War, and Fire Emblem.

[@tylerwade4574]

Great show. I love and respect everyone’s opinions and their willingness to share.

[@USMCbrantley]

The fact that Kelsey and Jeff M had to fight for Mario Wonder to be on the list is freaking wild that is easily in the Top 5 for best 2D Mario games ever made. Also big credit for Kelsey for every year fighting for JRPGs like seriously Octopath 2 needs to be on this list! Other then that great time, still got a few minutes left but the freaking Mario Wonder fight was a omfg we serious right now I had to comment.

[@SwobyJ]

Wild but its not about the best game for all the audience to more likely enjoy, but the best shared game that they can agree the most on, based on what new games they bothered to play this year.

[@isaaccooper448]

Wonder is good but not goty material

[@nognaught]

Dave the diver just coasting through is an absolute crime - disliked, unsubscribed, sending hate mail to ur P.O. Box, & calling the feds. Otherwise great episode! Can’t wait for pt 2

[@Rhade15]

Awesome to hear so many intelligent women talk about games, wish more outlets had similar rosters

[@QuestMode]

Glad Shadow Gambit made the list. Mimimi was one of the most talented and under appreciated studios and to see them close up shop was heartbreaking, but they sure went out with a bang.

[@excyruss]

Is there a list somewhere of every game mentioned in this episode? I want to check out the ones I have not played. Is the full sheet that was being edited available to viewed perhaps, without spoiling the two tens result?

[@MrMarker4]

My wife came in the room and asked “Why is Jacob naked?” haha

[@claudiociardiello3159]

Great list and i love sarah but how tf did cities skylines make it on there

[@Jeorin]

I find the complaints on Mario Wonder's multiplayer interesting. I've seen two wildly different takes on it from two sources: Game Grumps, and my brother. In both cases, they love it because the second person is essentially playing in little kid mode. This is not a party game for adults. It's something kids play with their parents (or less skilled gamers play with their more skilled friends).

[@IHJello]

Two Tens is such an amazing event. I had no idea I would be asking "Where will Starfield rank?" in a negative way.

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@2:50:55: Jacob checks out as Sarah talks on House Flipper 2, lol! 🤣😂 -(The hypnotic slow camera pan/ zoom, though!)

[@iitu2]

House flipper 2 is not out on PS5 yet, so it'll be my GOTY 2024. I love this list bc it reminded how many good games I have on backlog😍

[@cptclown2110]

Love seeing Haley champion TCM! No game gives you the horror movie vibes like that game. It's great Coming back, that back and forth at the end between Mario and TCM was edge of your seat, lordy TCM deserved that spot!!

[@tayloredwards4565]

I feel bad for Marvel's Midnight Suns.

[@chalupabatman1614]

It was Minnmax's #10 in 2022

[@Tml25145]

There are things to fairly criticize about FFXVI and then there's whatever that was. Big double standard and change of perspective at the mention of FFXVI there.

[@exploding_puffins]

Kelsey singlehandedly convinced me to play the entirety of Xenoblade Chronicles in last year's two tens, and oh boy was that a great decision.

[@fearghalbarry7866]

Jacob's description of "The Finals" is really bizarre, it's an objective based game first and foremost - aim/shooting are secondary.

[@0FFICERPROBLEM]

Yeah that came off like an unhinged take lol

[@TheBrandocoot]

Loved this episode, but I wish someone would have fought harder for Final Fantasy 16. Minus the side quest argument all the stuff brought against it was pretty bad faith. FF16 is my personal goty so seeing it not even manage to crack the top 30 is just insane to me. Anyways, looking forward to the big finale!

[@neoshadow5192]

That entire part of the discussion was wild

[@respect_pizza4251]

That game has the highest highs and the lowest lows. The terrible side quests really grind the game to a halt at the worst times.

[@TheBrandocoot]

@@respect_pizza4251 yeah the side quest argument is totally valid, after a certain boss fight there’s a stretch where you have to do several fetch quests in a row in addition to the side stuff and it’s easily the lowest low of the whole game. I’ll defend the writing and the characters all day though, the story really resonated with me

[@rinaldus4512]

At this point I feel like I exist in an alternative universe where XVI was actually amazing. The outright hate and way the group wrote that game off is just bizarre. Did I just play a different game?

[@_SomeGuyOnline]

I had a dumb grin on my face throughout the show. I love MinnMax. 😊

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@2:54:45: "Can someone talk about Karataka?" 🤠😅

[@DiscerningDad]

Y’all almost did Mario dirty. I wish you all 100% the game. It really shined in the special world and the final final level

[@isaaccooper448]

No ones doing that except a small percentage of weebs

[@futurereflectionsmedia8391]

Happy New Year you lovely people! See you next year! ;)

[@smoothslide]

1:31:35 Janet really undersold that the gameplay only happens in a literal circle and you simply circle around. 1:44:05 I hear you, Kyle. time is valuable. lemme finish watching this three and a half hours of goty debacle😂

[@afrodude76]

Leo’s apology to JeffM during the Starfield discussion was such a genuine & kind moment. Great example of what a positive ethos y’all have as a team. Great work tackling this behemoth of a year!

[@dmtgallardo]

Great video!! Go Minnmax!!

[@factorialorb7084]

I am so happy that Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood go bought up in this, it’s such a beautiful game and the more people know about it the better

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@31:27: Literally killing it...(Ben with the Dad jokes). 😅

[@aldoelektrika]

2:35:00 is when the conversation gets going 😊

[@burnout713]

I think the elephant in the room with Mario Wonder isn't that the panelists don't think this game lives up to the lineage of 2D Super Mario games, it's that 2D Super Mario games simply aren't as good as many of the other games that are being championed on this list, particularly if you don't come in with childhood nostalgia on the genre/series. I did grow up playing the series and even I don't think I've ever played a 2D Mario game I'd give more than an 8, maybe 8.25/10. That said, I'm sure it's better than Texas Chainsaw Massacre, so it dodged a bullet for now. See you next week for the grand finale!

[@AREAlhero]

Super Mario Bros Wonder not only clobbers Baldur's Gate 3 in diagetic musical numbers, but also in raw gameplay. Gamers nowadays quite simply do not have a refined enough palette to understand and analyze the effectiveness of raw mechanical gameplay

[@burnout713]

@@AREAlhero You're talking about a 2D platformer for children.

[@AREAlhero]

@@Magic7ball I have and I do. There can be more than one game championed, that being said I prefer Wonder, as the 2nd best 2D Mario is a better game than the 3rd best Wario Land game

[@SevanElevan]

Kelsey electing Hi-Fi Rush as her first pick instantly makes her my favorite of the bunch. That game was something special.

[@crazyxtreme2]

Loved this! We need some more fighting gamer representation here though bc I think even though it got a small shout out I think street fighter 6 deserved a lil more love on here

[@ChichiNaka]

I always love the discussion more than the actual rankings at the end, and I appreciate that the conversation is being had about "Is this actually a good mario, spiderman, final fantasy" as opposed to "well we have to have mario, zelda, final fantasy, spiderman and Pikman on the list because they are games that came out this year and we all have warm fuzzy memories of the franchises" I do think the yearly Xenoblade stuff is getting tiring, if only because literally only one person cares to play it, having to play 3 games spanning over a decade isn't a selling point, thats how most trilogies work Pokemon DLC was great, bummer to see it get skipped over again like last year when 3 different co-hosts were about to talk about it, at least to talk about its strengths and weaknesses but decided to skip over it entirely but having the same conversation about yearly AAA titles that are basically 90% the same as their predecessor isn't deemed unworthy. Great conversations, love the channel

[@bluekryptonite1121]

Shoutout to Sarah and Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood! That game really stuck with me 💜

[@galacticmaui2]

lol fun episodes with some interesting takes.

[@jonathananderson5135]

"I've got more, so be quiet and listen."-JeffM *Ben immediately cuts him off* Ahahahahhaha

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@29:30: Grandpappy's adage got no love, lol! 😂

[@whatsnewvideogames]

Based on the discussion it seems like Pikmin 4 makes way more sense at #20 than Texas Chainsaw Massacre OR Mario Wonder?