Game Of The Year 2023 (The Final Debate) - The MinnMax Show

[@minnmax]

Unlock the 40-minute post-show "Pissy Zone" airing of grievances by supporting MinnMax at the $10 Backstage Pass tier, the link is in the Discord. www.patreon.com/minnmax

[@DamTheKid]

2:37:00 Hansen, no holds barred is an old wrestling term meaning no hold was barred from use. For shame

[@seansmith2650]

Nah

[@Luffy2008]

Leo you are too funny. "No matter where these games end up, this is a list of 15 great games" 😂

[@joshjohnson4092]

😂 incredibly witty. I was rolling

[@psychotogether5114]

And when he cut the tension at the end. What a great dude.

[@kacman11]

from a level of sheer analysis, debate, and just orchestrated group interaction, this might be the best GOTY yall've done yet.... got me really excited about Video Games (the CONCEPT) even after listening to like 7 different outlets' similarly titanic-length podcasts, just an incredible cross-section of tastes and insights ... congrats the 9+ hours everyone spent on this was time well spent !!

[@WarpHype]

I’m glad this is the only GOTY debate I’ve watched after reading your comment. I think it’s all I need. 😁 It was a great watch!

[@SpacefaceDEV]

I felt more drama and just plain feelings from the final vote between Hitman Freelancer and LOZ: TOTK than I do for the climax of most TV shows. Good stuff

[@Vub.]

Watch giant bomb game of year deliberations. It's where they got this idea from.

[@tucksrun]

Lies of P being able to sneakily stay in the top 10 is just amazing.

[@JacobGeller]

THE PUPPET DID IT

[@Jeorin]

Can't deny that P-factor.

[@morank3]

Very surprised Jacob put it over AC6!

[@madmagician8663]

Deserves higher tbh.

[@Echo__plex]

It's a fantastic game

[@crichmenace]

kyle's comment at 3:29:00 hits so hard!! tears of the kingdom came out right at the end of my first year at university, and in both the game and in real life i remember being struck by this ghostly feeling of "things aren't the same as before, and that's okay." it's a video game about finding new beauty in a place you have loved for your whole life, one where you can look upon the curvature of the earth and catch shooting stars from the sky. AND THE BUILDING TOO OH MY GOD

[@mish5200]

Agree with Kyle. SF6 not being here is the most disappointing.

[@ayyyejohnnn]

1000%

[@eb2681]

I think a fighting game fan might have rivaled leo's passion 😎

[@linkypeach5491]

Fair play to Kelsey who seems to absolutely adore both Xenoblade and Octopath 2 but recognises she's the only one in the group with those views so is more than happy for them just to be in the list without the need to argue for them to be in the top 3.

[@finerdly]

whole list feels fine except Hitman DLC above (at least) TOTK and Alan Wake.. ^^

[@WisteriaElectric]

This is easily the best and most entertaining end-of-year discussion you guys have done, and probably the best one I've heard from any outlet for 2023.

[@MrPokefan124]

LEO YOU CRAZY BASTARD YOU DID IT. That's basically all I have to say, truly outstanding episode

[@Argo.nautica]

"This game changed the way I think about games I like" about BG3 is accurate and a thing I hadn't encountered since Disco Elysium.

[@wittynicknamehere]

I rewound nine times, just to see each person's individual reaction to "Sarah, what would you slide on that bottom?"

[@Riceball80IA]

That was so funny! ….. “what”?

[@Astral_Armadillo]

Can't help but notice Jacob said that RE4 should go in position 12 when surely he meant position 2 of the 2nd ten?

[@JacobGeller]

Damnit we gotta re-record

[@scottyben191]

Janet coming through in the clutch for goty Baldurs Gate 3!

[@claudiociardiello3159]

Best GOTY debate Minnmax has ever done!

[@bar_bar9315]

Im so glad to see Shadow Gambit on the list. I think mimimi's work is often overlooked, and they made fantastic videogames. I always encourage everyone to try Shadow Tactics and Desperados III. There is no doubt in my mind that SG is the best strategy game of 2023, and a good swansong for mimimi games.

[@fotografick]

If I didn't like desperadoes, is there a chance I'll like shadow tactics? I didn't like the game feel, how the characters moved.

[@burnout713]

Haven't played it yet, but man it does look incredible.

[@pkstarstorm8856]

Imagine the chaos if Kyle Bosman was on this

[@lust.and.lunacy]

Kyle said Ben asked him to, but he hadn't yet decided on what his GOTY's were, so he declined. I would've loved to see him on here, hopefully they can make it happen next year.

[@rikkuricky]

I will be catching up on 2023 game releases for many years to come. Thanks for all of the great content this year MinnMax!

[@zankheal]

Sarah made me cry. I love you guys, for real. So true, Baldur’s Gate is beyond awsome, I finished after 230+ hours.

[@t0mes]

Yeeesh a game mode as 2nd is just the biggest slap in the face to what the developers over at Nintendo achieved with ToTK. Basically one guy dominated the whole conversation and nobody felt brave enough to say he was completely off base.

[@Dukefazon]

3:00:21 - okay, that was super sweet, I'm so happy for Sarah that she can feel this much emotions towards a game, this moment made me tear up a little with joy as well.

[@Maxbeedo2]

4:57 The Dark Prince's influence can still be felt after his departure. He gathers all evil to him. 1:31:24 And then he becomes the hero we deserve. 25:50 JeffM with the burnnnnnnnn! 1:37:31 Kelsey explaining the entire Xenoblade franchise (vaguely). Also I always appreciate Kelsey's fairness and mediator tendencies throughout these debates. 2:17:35 Sarah's brilliant ding on Zelda.

[@jeroen7x954]

Great discussion! But gotta be honest kinda crazy that everyone's passion project got in the bottom 10 but somehow Leo's passion project beats out many people's number 1 or 2? Feels really weird to me and doesn't make a lot of sense

[@eb2681]

The others "gave up," but leo was determined.

[@Stampede_Gaming]

Yes Leo's hitman speech is legendary and I had no doubts it would be, but WOW something about Janet's surprise BG3 speech just hit so hard. BG3 is my goty and I have listened to hours of people gushing about BG3 but Janet's speech really captured everything about BG3 so well. Kudos!

[@Stampede_Gaming]

Also want to add that I have been watching multiple gaming outlets goty discussions religiously at the end of every year for probably the last 7 years and this might be my favorite. I want to shoutout Ben for giving the right amount of direction for the discussions. It does not seem like an easy task to lead these discussions.

[@fancypants5782]

Janet’s surprise BG3 speech was the highlight of the episode for me personally because she effectively managed to communicate what makes the game so special to those who vibe with it.

[@RebirthCrusader90]

26:00 Mildly flustered/snarky JeffM is such a treat. lol

[@SqueebPlays]

Ugh this argument about "doing the same thing" can be applied to LITERALLY every video game.

[@Hylianhero777]

Felt like the convo shifted to TOTK vs Hitman because no one really felt comfortable going after Baldur's Gate 3, it never really had to even be defended that much, presumably cause people either bounced off it entirely or were all in on it, leaving no one who could confidently talk negatives on the game. Wonder if that's how the Zelda vs. BG3 convo is going at a lot of games media outlets right now

[@Fanmanhandle]

Agreed. I understand how everyone is busy as there were a lot of lengthy releases this year, but I was squirming for deeper challenge on baulders gate from Kyle, Ben or Jacob as having played both titles for over 100 hours, there was a lot left on the table.

[@ShujinPJ]

Man Bossman is a got dang generous genius, giving y'all a mini personalized Delayed Input in the form of a free comment. The cutting and yet simultaneously self-deprecating list of games... a fine work of game criticism culminating in the form of exquisitely comedic art.

[@fotografick]

I love how the top 3 games contain moments of emergent comedy. Taking out a guard with a rubber duck, strapping a missile to korok, or shoving an unexpecting enemy off a cliff. I really hope this paves the way for the future of game design.

[@beezlebubisfly3211]

It's insane that a DLC for a game that came out 2 years ago is number 2. I liked hitman 3 when it came out but adding a rouge like mode to it shouldn't magically make it better than the best game I've played in the past 5 years. How come Leo's passion game gets so much more weight than others?

[@acquiescence5331]

How was Hitman Freelancer even eligible for the list when it's not a new game but just a new mode in an old game? Would Leo have really thrown that much of a hissy fit if it wasn't included?

[@TevorTheThird]

Kelsey has the best taste in games, that's my entire comment. Thank you and goodnight.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

Sure, if your entire appreciation for video games is basically, y’know… Japanese games.

[@schauski]

So happy discussions like this are still a thing. Just like the good old days with 1up podcast and giant bomb cast. Nextlanders gives me those vibes too. Please don’t dissolve like easy allies!

[@drez4726]

What happened with Easy Allies?

[@smith89devin]

Did nextlander do another “not numbered” game list?

[@offlnegamer]

Leos explanation at 1:47:58 is almost exactly how I felt about Resident Evil 2 Remake in 2019 and then Elden Ring in 2022. I can even say it about Baulder's Gate III now in 2023, its such an awesome feeling when something isn't usually your thing but you give it a shot and end up falling in love with it, no matter the medium. I went from playing mostly linear story driven games to now playing and enjoying a little bit of everything, love it! Great list guys, even though I haven't played a lot of games on here, looking forward to trying the ones I didn't.

[@IfYouSeekCaveman]

Ah, this satiates my desire for deep debate over GotY I used to get from Giant Bomb before they switched to the Eurovision method.

[@OrangeLightning]

Giant Bomb's GOTY this year was so disappointing.

[@mike1148711]

Some thoughts: - IMO Hitman Freelancer should not have been on this list. A great additional content update, but not a game release. I know this is Minnmax's list, but maybe consider a separate DLC/Expansion/Update of the year in the future? - The lack of JRPG gamers in this cast is a disservice to the appreciation these titles deserve, as they often get pushed down the list because the majority didn't play them. Same with Fighting games.

[@Magic7ball]

The lack of fighting game players is a disservice to that great genre. The lack of rts game players is a disservice to that great genre. The lack of moba game players is a disservice to that great genre. Oh wait not every group needs to be the same

[@shambolic8539]

@@Magic7ball this is just anti-intellectualism in disguise. Lack of curiosity is absolutely a problem for any critic.

[@Magic7ball]

@@shambolic8539 so true. Them not having Street Fighter 6 and all my other favorite games is anti-intellectual

[@ulysseh4598]

​@@Magic7ball He's saying your comment was anti-intellectual. Not them.

[@Magic7ball]

@@ulysseh4598 well i was agreeing with the group so thats the same thing. Also he said critic. C'mon now

[@burnout713]

Fun discussion as always this year. Seeing a lot of comments disagreeing with the order, so I've put together a comparison of the final list on the left along with what the top 20 would be utilizing a simple point system from everyone's top 10s on the right. Obviously don't read yet if you haven't finished this video and don't want to be spoiled. 1. Baldur's Gate 3 | The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom 2. Hitman Freelancer | Alan Wake 2 3. The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom | Baldur's Gate 3 4. Alan Wake 2 | Resident Evil 4 Remake 5. Resident Evil 4 Remake | Spider-Man 2 6. Hi-Fi Rush | Hi-Fi Rush 7. Sea of Stars | Hitman Freelancer 8. Dave the Diver | Tchia 9. Spider-Man 2 | Sea of Stars 10. Lies of P | Dave the Diver 11. Tchia | Lies of P 12. Chants of Sennaar | The Making of Karateka 13. Venba | Dead Space Remake 14. Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed | Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed 15. Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon | Cities: Skylines 2 16. Octopath Traveler II | Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew 17. Cities: Skylines 2 | Super Mario Bros. Wonder 18. Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew | Star Ocean the Second Story R 19. The Making of Karateka | Pikmin 4 20. Super Mario Bros. Wonder | The Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood

[@burnout713]

Also, just for fun and since I've seen some saddened by the lack of MinnMax alumni Suriel Vazquez's input on this list, I've put together another top 20 that we would've seen if his top 10 had been included in my above list's number system. You may be surprised by a continued lack of Street Fighter VI; evidently there were a number of games Suriel still preferred to that fighting game standout. 1. The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom 2. Alan Wake 2 3. Baldur's Gate 3 4. Resident Evil 4 Remake 5. Spider-Man 2 6. Hi-Fi Rush 7. Hitman Freelancer 8. Tchia 9. Super Mario Bros. Wonder 10. Armored Core VI: The Fires of Rubicon 11. Sea of Stars 12. Dave the Diver 13. Lies of P 14. The Making of Karateka 15. Dead Space Remake 16. Jusant 17. Humanity 18. Venba 19. Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed 20. Cities: Skylines 2

[@Zohranio]

i freaking love minnmax! this was the most interesting and funniest discussion ever produced by this outlet.

[@minnmax]

Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for any help sharing it online?

[@Zohranio]

@@minnmax you got it dood! 👍

[@Draffut2003]

Still sad that Chained Echoes got forgotten as a December release.

[@burnout713]

Glad I'm not the only one that remembers it. Truly an incredible game.

[@sator_project]

Armored Core made the two 10s! We're so back ravens!

[@VGMobster]

Great year for games in general but I'm with the other members of the group that think Zelda should be over hitman

[@AG_Druid]

Really loved Leo's passion and expression for his love of Hitman Freelancer. I just went and got hitman world of assassination (its v cheap on epic game store atm with a sale AND coupon), have been waiting for a rainy day to start these games and he gave me the impetus to get going! Really great show and GGs all

[@larohar]

Come on, it's enough. Please don't tell me! NOOooo!! My backlog will never recover from this (last) year.

[@NF_Redux]

Hitman World of Assassination trilogy truly is the best iteration of Hitman to date, and Freelancer somehow manages to elevate it even more. i can lose days in a single map exploring every possibility before moving on to the next.

[@thatoneguy1821]

As a newbie to the Hitman franchise myself. The World of Assassination is so much fun! Ironically, I would argue that Freelancer is a considerable downgrade though (unless you’re a Hitman pro). The core structure of the original trilogy, experimenting to figure out what does / doesn’t work… what happens when you take whatever action you try… how characters react / where they go… that IS the way to play for 99% of players. Freelancer is an awesome option for the pro players that know the maps by heart, have become bored with the standard NPC patterns, etc etc. I can’t see new players having any success with that mode or even connecting to the game as a result (although the mechanic of losing any items you have on your person when you die is a great addition to the risk / reward of experimentation)

[@thatoneguy1821]

This episode just confirmed for me that MinnMax needs to rethink how they construct their top games list 😂. These lists are ultimately meaningless. But the amount of confusion at the end over what the criteria even is. And the idea that a game that only two people were even interested in trying would take the spot of a game that half the group thought was their number one and the rest agreed was a phenomenal game even if it wasn’t their favorite… you missed the mark lol Fun show. Infuriating to only be able to listen to. I genuinely think most the participants in this discussion will look back on that final decision as a mistake. It is what it is. But I think you all need to seriously reevaluate what voting as a collective outlet looks like

[@thatoneguy1821]

And just to clarify, my comment isn’t about what game I think should be at the top. There are plenty of decisions on this list that baffle me, but for the most part I think actually do capture the group’s temperature. It’s more just… how did one person’s passion outweigh the collective group’s weight. It makes zero sense.

[@Magic7ball]

"These lists are ultimately meaningless" all lists are meaningless. its about the discussion

[@thatoneguy1821]

@@Magic7ball I’m not sure what you’re getting at. You’re correcting me for… recognizing lists are subjective and arbitrary??? Weird move

[@burnout713]

I like the current structure in terms of sparking discussions about these games, but I agree the final list always ends up being very arbitrary. It worked better when there were just four guys in a room putting together their lists. Now that we're at 9, it's a total crapshoot.

[@thatoneguy1821]

@@burnout713 Yea, I think the current format works for a very small crew. But when you have 9 people and several of them have very specific genre tastes that no one else does, either they won’t be represented or you have this weird thing like MinnMax currently has I personally think the list should be new games only (no DLC / additions). And then, if you know you’re going to be fighting for a game in the discussion, everyone should have to play at least a few hours to weigh in on whether it’s representative of the group. Either that, or collectively decide on 11 of the 20 games and allow each person one dark horse for the list

[@starlight137yt]

One of the best debates you ever did. I really want to play Hitman now 😅

[@DarthRevan150]

If you like Baldur’s Gate 3, you should try their previous game Divinity Original Sin 2

[@shambolic8539]

None of you besides Leo actually think Hitman deserves the number two spot, because none of you played it. If you really thought it was deserving, or even remotely in contention for a high spot, you would have tried it yourselves. It's not exactly TotK or BG3, which require a bit of investment. Xenoblade 3 made more sense as a single-person favorite that placed high, because the barrier to entry was extreme (and you were aware it had a high reputation elsewhere). Hitman Freelancer could have been picked up and played easily, by all of you. One of these two things is true: 1) You guys gave Hitman a spot far too high on your collective list, or 2) you accurately placed it on the list, and 7/9 of you didn't even try the 2nd best game of the year. I think it's pretty obvious which of these is true. None of you will even play it after this, after making it your collective number 2 game of the year. I don't care where things place, or if they place at all, as long as it seems like an honest list that represents the group. This doesn't. It's some weird video game-themed version of Survivor that doesn't really represent anything.

[@chaosmos24]

Correct.

[@eb2681]

Probably true but then the totk lovers just failed to make a compelling argument or ben should have stuck with the collective path for the two tens portion.

[@Fanmanhandle]

⁠@@eb2681Kyle tried his best, he was just too polite about it! Having followed him for awhile now, I think Kyle has the best grasp on what makes games good, but he seems to qualify his critiques with it just being his “personal opinion” which is very professional yes, but this is the GOTY debate man, we need you to get your nails out Kyle!!

[@Profecy02]

Thanks for all the great podcasting this year you guys!

[@Jeorin]

Final Fantasy 16 enjoyer here to tell you just how wrong this list is *shakes fist*. Seriously though, this is a solid list. This year was an incredible one for gamers.

[@kbkb4284]

Ifrit vs Garuda fight alone makes it an instant top 5 for me this year.

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@1:19:40: Ben looks for the alley-oop, but Leo shoots him a pass, lol! 🐴

[@TRUEfoe]

I'm with Leo here, the dishes are truly the worst.

[@powrboy77]

As a big fighting game fan, I rly felt Suriel's absence this goty. Was glad for Kyle's SF6 shout-out tho.

[@KillianC1C2]

While I respect and appreciate Leos passion, it is genuinely kinda insane Freelancer made it to the top 3 when no more than 3 people here played it. If he hadn't gone first it probably would just barely make the top 10. Also the continuous Mario Wonder slander is just legit wild still lol

[@rafaela00002]

So much fun listening to this debate

[@bluekryptonite1121]

This made a considerably draining afternoon much more tolerable. What an excellent, entertaining and DETAILED discussion! First two tens for me and it did not disappoint!

[@Christianjpeg]

the beginning starting with all the Final Fantasy XVI hate was hard to get past for me but I will persevere.😜

[@burnout713]

The hate boners people have for that game are truly baffling to me.

[@kbkb4284]

I have smashed the UP directional button chanting: Sic em, Torgal.

[@galacticmaui2]

Interesting conversation about how fun doesn’t equal best for everyone when there is other things to weigh like pushing the industry forward.

[@alexreinhard4472]

Absolutely legendary episode. I feel obliged to get on the MinnMax Patreon after this one. However - and keeping in mind that Leo is one of my favorite people on the podcast ... I've specifically searched for his Rapid Fire questions multiple times because they're so great ... you guys absolutely folded on 2 vs 3. This is the MinnMax GOTY list, not Leo's, and it's not fair or even measurable to say his passion was sooooo much greater than anyone else's (Haley I know you loved Hitman too) that Hitman deserved to be #2. Everyone else's passion games were relegated to the bottom half of the crumbler bumblers. If the GOTY list is based on passion, it becomes a public speaking contest, not a discourse about the quality of a game. I loved the passion, but the criteria needs to be established early on in the discussion, because for Hitman - a game that 2/9 people played - to be number 2 is going to look really dumb in just a few years. Leo should have taken his dub and gracefully let Hitman drop to 3, which already was insane. I would have slid it on that bottom from the absolute beginning. Still loved it - see you guys on Patreon. Snarky comment I just thought of: 2 - representing Hitman, and the number of people who played it. Still love Leo though.

[@markm5927]

Wonderful debate and discussion. No one beats Minnmax for these end of year episodes. I think Ben was right about TOTK being collectively above Hitman. There always seems to be one game like that that's a litte too high, but I guess I'll save that for the pissy zone 😄Loved the Baldur's Gate conversation and seeing Sarah get emotional, didn't realise it meant that much to her so it was nice to see.

[@messiahh]

I end up playing almost all of the games you all describe with passion. In the process, I learn to love new genres and have a ton of fun with them. Thank you for sharing your time and love with us all.

[@TheGamePiece]

Did no one play Jedi Survivor? Felt like it got snubbed a lot this year by everyone.

[@shivam4499]

How is hitman this high up. It's so basic. Everyone just seems to be indulging Leo and has new toy.

[@oaktreep1987]

I really like the MinnMax GOTY debates and i respect everybody's personal opinions and insights. For me Zelda TOTK is my GOTY , but RE Remake 4 is a game for life for me personally. I'm glad that it's getting more praise in this debate, but still i feel like people are taking it for granted how good and polished this game is. Especially because the orginal is so beloved by fans, it is a very daunting task to remake a game like that. I really love Alan Wake 2 and Zelda TOTK, but I'm not gonna replay them in a short term, because both games have parts that felt slow or filler. RE Remake 4 is the most close to perfection and a tribute to fans and gamers

[@chaosmos24]

Picking Hitman over TOTK to placate one guy's niche passion is ridiculous.

[@drez4726]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[@burnout713]

I love Leo and his passion for Hitman and he is clearly the best in this group at succinctly and clearly laying out why he loves the games he does. But at the end of the day, that game appeared on two people's lists out of nine. Tears of the Kingdom was on almost everyone's, often at number 1.

[@OMGLX]

As grumpy as Sarah and JeffM made me a couple times during the Alan Wake 2 Deep Dive (my personal GOTY, probably because I haven't played BG3) all of that was forgiven* when Sarah got to have her moment during the Baldur's Gate 3 discussion. For sure that must've been a cathartic experience, to feel like you've been screaming from the mountaintop, alone (relatively, compared to most of the other MM cohorts), and then get to the finale at the end of the year, possibly expecting to have that happen again, and then find that others are standing shoulder to shoulder with you -- honestly a beautiful moment. Love y'all, love this list, excited to continue on the rest of the year with everyone on this cast. 🧡 *forgiven.. for Sarah. JeffM is still in my own personal pissy corner. (I kid.)

[@fancypants5782]

This was definitely the best list you guys have made since the inception of MinnMax. I’m really happy that #4 made it as high as it did because I wasn’t expecting much support for it

[@dancingphlower]

Like a Dragon Gaiden, the game with the best moment of 2023, was robbed! 😭 Y'all got me tempted to up my pledge so I can watch the "pissy zone" part 😅

[@paulsanchez001]

Once i started watching i couldn't stop. This was a great discussion and wrap up of awesome games throughout the year and I'm really surprised how 1-3 ended up because i would've never thought thats how it would shake out.

[@Vub.]

Baldurs Gate 3 is hands down game of the year. Even people who havent played it or if it isnt for them should understand how big of a masterpiece the game is. I feel like i dreamed of a game having that much freedom and choice outcome in it and it was just a dream, until baldurs gate 3 game out. It might be top 3 game of the past decade.

[@David050298]

I think this has gradually become my favorite podcast group? W

[@Chicken008]

You guys really need to stop worrying about hurting other's feelings. Just chill out lol

[@tonydungan4378]

Unbelievable how incredibly hard Leo sold Hitman, I haven't been interested in playing any of them but I feel like I gotta check it out now

[@ryanmcadam737]

Fantastic episode. Thank you to the whole team for all the hard work you guys put into Minnmax. Best content out there by a country mile.

[@sass2836]

This is so good (fantastic insight and entertaining discussion) that I'll have to go back and watch the 'building the list' episode, which I'd originally avoided due to length. Again, though, such a good discussion.

[@goodwolf152]

TotK is the most "video game" thing on this list. Zelda leverages the strengths of the medium better than anything else. Might be a minority opinion (or maybe just a personal preference), but TotK maxes out the "interactivity" slider, which is what video games do better than anything else. Movies and books are great at being watched and great at being read...video games are great and being played. I don't want to discount the value of story, characters, performances, etc...those things count, and people are certainly justified in caring about them. I just want to advocate for gameplay and interactivity...things that video games do better than any other artistic medium, and that people seem to not care about nearly as much as they used to. I do believe that good stories can make a game great, but I also believe that the absence of a great story doesn't necessarily make a game bad. Plenty of games are remarkable and moving and impressive, without ever presenting much story at all.

[@skytrot]

Oh you are definitely not alone on that. I’m not a Zelda fan myself, but can objectively appreciate what the team at Nintendo have actually managed to create. While I have some gripes with it, it actually fully takes advantage of the medium of video games and is second to none when it comes to tools and interactivity with the world and environment. Games like BG3 on the other hand can be, or what I deem a DND simulator, already exists and can be done, much better I’d argue, in another medium. DND already exists. Yes. the amount of writing and dialogue choices is admirable, but nothing about it actually pushes the medium of video games forward. In fact, it’s core game could be made in the 1980s or even earlier because most of what it’s trying to push is writing and choice. Strip away the 3D assets and animation, and replace them with still pixelated illustrations/images and the game is the same, it’s how primitive the actual game design of BG3 is. Again, the amount of writing the team put into it is admirable, but I’m honestly baffled by all the praise it’s getting.

[@skytrot]

Also want to add that the people vouching for it here on the panel have never played Larian’s previous games like the Divinity games or CRPGs in general. People are more impressed by something they have little to no experience of. Because of that, there was almost little to zero expectations on BG3 to deliver. TotK on the other hand, had a massive and I mean MASSIVE weight of expectation on its shoulder to actually be better than BotW and for most people it actually succeeded. That’s honestly more impressive to me because that rarely happens.

[@WisteriaElectric]

@@skytrot Sarah has absolutely played the DOS games, she mentions it in this discussion.

[@Gx3Tri]

​@@skytrotI've never felt so heard, you put my thoughts into words so eloquently 😭

[@WarpHype]

I too skipped over BG3. I really don’t think it’s my kind of game, but I will absolutely pick it up on a sale to see someday because of this debate. Good guy Ben letting it be so high on the list. You love to see it!

[@hododod246]

I just don't get it. What is the problem with seeing totk cutscenes in different order matters? Lots of games does this. I am playing outer wilds currently and it gives the story in bit and pieces out of order. Souls games always give out of order. In totk the most important cutscene is the last one and they don't allow you to see it until you find all memories. I also found them in complete out of order and did not have any issue. Just don't understand the drama.

[@PSpiceProof]

I can only speak to my experience, but to me it made the story endlessly frustrating. Many plot points in this story are centered around the core mystery of "what happened to Zelda?", which you can more or less solve somewhat early on if the cards land just right. And unfortunately the game does not adapt to you solving that mystery first, everything plays out the same way, despite that core mystery being brought up again and again. It's a non-linear story for the sake of the gameplay, but narratively it doesn't win anything from that format and in this case I think it hurt it. And this is also just my opinion, but non-linearity aside I thought the overall story (past and present) was really bland and not hard to figure out, so making you work for glimpses of either of those threads wasn't worth it to me.

[@MisterAyon]

Blast! The Dark Prince of Nerd Media strikes again 😁

[@nogrannydontplays]

Leo's take on Hitman sold it for me, GOTY and I haven't played any of them.

[@jediyodabush86]

That was very entertaining! But I can't help but agree with Bosman where the heck if FF16?? And I lov ya Leo but Hitman #2 eeeeeeeek. 1. Zelda-y 2. BG3 3. Lies of P 4. RE4 5. Alan cranky Wake 6. Spooder Man 2 7. Armored Core VI 8. Sea of Stars 9. FF16 10. Mario Wonder (why all the mario hate! mama mia!)

[@Crundmama]

1:42:00 Oh that's going to get clipped lmao

[@OGR-4394]

Nothing personal, I wish them all well. I feel like none of these people are equipped to talk critically or even thoughtfully about the games they played, it was kind of hard to listen to. This industry sorely needs better from the media.

[@minnmax]

Start your own podcast. Thanks for watching The MinnMax Show!

[@davidspinnier7014]

Reinstalled Hitman to try out Freelancer after watching this. I really feel their sandbox shines in this mode, more so than the regular content which could sometimes feel a bit on the scripted side. Great game!

[@Amra..]

Sarah speaking facts about Tears of the Kingdom

[@Tryhardblackguy]

Resident Evil 4 Remake, it’s just an amazing video game, it deserves to be on there. And next year I don’t think the conversation for FF7 Rebirth is needed about the remake because lore wise it’s more of a sequel than a remake, that’s a brand new game and story just like FF7 Remake was

[@CriPPleR_HD]

BG3 and Alan Wake 2 are my top 2. I feel that Kelsey was the only person that did not get her passion on the top 10. Octopath 2 or Xeno should have at least cracked the top 10. Zelda was more of a general game that was going to be on the least regardless.

[@NF_Redux]

find you a partner who loves you like Leo loves Freelancer 💗💓💕

[@hermes_job_observer144]

@25:47: JeffM's early salt shaking. 🧂😤🧂

[@Cartkun]

Great discussion! Thanks for 2023!

[@_SomeGuyOnline]

Lies of P is my GOTY. My wife and I both played it and its the first game that she had ever gotten the Platinum Trophy for. Most games that try to replicate FromSoft just utterly fail, but LoP is so good that its better than some of the SoulsBorne games, imo. Such satisfying combat with INCREDIBLE music and fantastic characters! I cant wait for the DLC/Sequel. ❤

[@expsharevideogames]

This has to be the best 2023 goty discussion I have heard. Amazing job, everyone

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, tell a friend please!

[@cloverraven]

Thank you for chants of senaar. It’s incredible.

[@Niicolee00x1206]

Still watching but Tchia being so high is wild. I loved Chants And Venba and Tchia must be so much better than it looked to be 11

[@cola3173]

I would love to see a GAME OF THE DECADE debate with this full cast. For 2010-2019 and 2000-2009. and 1990-1999. i know it was already done w the old smaller crew but the new group has great dynamics

[@MellowFelloh]

Awsome discussions about video games in general. These end of year videos never disappoint

[@EdwinHernandez-nm4uq]

"I know the exact pidgon youre talking about." 😂 love this group pf people so much

[@MG_Gambino]

Im just here for the discussion regardless of whats on top. I love the back and forth. I love all of that. But let me just say, jeffm is the g.o.a.t. that snarkyness, lmao i love it. Dont change king. Great discussion overall and stay blessed.

[@MEDUSAvsSHOE]

Time for a Minnmax Hollywood Squares mashup

[@NS-RPG]

BG3 ended up not being my GOTY because of Act 3. I wish people would finish the games if they love it that much. "My goty but still in Act 1" is weird. Plus, most of the things people are so gaga over it, were available in Divinity Original Sin 2.

[@burnout713]

I was wondering about that. I haven't played either, but I remember the few who did play Divinity were saying a lot of the same things back in 2017. Seems like that game was just a bit ahead of its time.

[@jpraciunas]

Not only did this discussion finally get me to download both BG3 & Hitman Freelancer, but it made me tear up more than once! Stellar year for games and for MinnMax 🎮🧡

[@scantron33]

I'm very Pizzy about where Tears ended up

[@zacharyducharme9264]

Hitman making it to Top 2 is hilarious. (not dissing the game, glad it made it). Hope the cohorts are already working on their strategies for 2024!

[@jesuswenceslao4909]

Hitman making top 2 and FF16 being like 40th is absurd.

[@zacharyducharme9264]

@@jesuswenceslao4909 I'm FFXVI's #1 fan but it not making top 20 makes sense. The story refuses to conclude or use any of its elements set up in the first act past the 20 hours mark and those late games filler main quests are dreadful