Game of Thrones Season 8 - The Bells Spoiler Discussion

[@aydan4431]

All credit to Emilia Clarke for her insane acting despite the flaws of the script.

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

Aydan Hussain she literally was just staring at all green screens so impressive this is her Emmy season she’s been great

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

Seth Meyer it’s true you can feed off other actors but with green screens it’s all on you just look at the Star Wars prequels in those moments where it’s like 😬 those were usually green and blue screen parts

[@balerionthedread9284]

Totally agree

[@Omojuze41]

Emilia Clarke's been killing it this season, tbh.

[@jfilms6106]

@@JohnSmith-wh2ob She has been good. But Sophie Turner out acted her in their sit down discussion.

[@Jmoney18123]

Arya: *kills the entire Frey family and bakes them into pies* The Hound: Don’t become consumed by vengeance Arya: Damn, you right

[@nicoleshh]

Jmoney18123 to be fair, she only baked two of them. 😂

[@CustomKnights]

That scene made sense to me in all honesty. The hound let her be until he realized the city was literally falling and she'd die if she went for Cercei, I felt it was an earned moment. You know what moment wasn't earned? Daenerys burning the whole damn city even tho they've given up, they could've sent her for the red keep but nope, just burn everything for the next hours, not like Drogon's gonna run out of breath anytime soon.

[@jfilms6106]

He meant not to the point where she sacrifices her own life.

[@Jmoney18123]

Ann 100% agree with Dany, super rushed. But with Arya, it’s the context of it all that bugs me. Like the writers love to writer her like an action movie star and have her murdering freys, threatening Sansa, and killing that universe’s equivalent of DEATH. But then they try have innocent moments with her, like last episode, and Im supposed to now buy that she’s scared for her life? It’s too inconsistent

[@nicoleshh]

Jmoney18123 I didn’t get the impression that she was scared to die. I thought she just realized that her revenge wasn’t worth sacrificing her life for when Cersei was going to die either way.

[@propagandalf877]

Varys: Daenerys is getting paranoid. She is crazy also Varys: let's try to poison her again later

[@samstruyven2299]

Actually later that day, Dany started to eat again, just a little, to have energy for the battle... she didn't ingest enough poison to die, but enough to go crazy... it's all Varys's fault, boooo!

[@viksaggu9085]

Propagandalf Danny’s motivation: Bitches be crazy

[@itsfemss]

Sam Struyven are you being sarcastic or was I not paying attention lmao my bad I really can’t tell

[@samstruyven2299]

​@@itsfemss no worries, I have the advantage of having direct access to her personal diaries! 🤥🤥🤥

[@numericalhorror185]

Sam Struyven Bran actually warged into Drogon at the same time and went berserk against her control

[@hatruong5219]

Daenerys: “They all love you here. I have no love here.” Jon: “I WAS MURDERED BY MY OWN MEN FOR TRYING TO SAVE THEM!”

[@smarti1144]

That would have been a better response than silence.

[@BH-98]

“I hanged a boy! Younger than bran!”

[@Xanthas998]

All she had to go was go to any of the other 6 kingdoms to find people that don't give 2 shits about Jon Snow.

[@jamiem8314]

Timothy Lee Agreed! We knew she had the support of Gendry who has been named ruler of the Stormlands, Yara who is now in control of the Iron Islands, Tyrion who is the last Lannister, heir to the Westerlands, and the new prince of Dorne (whoever he is). Four kingdoms right there!

[@ankitdas6620]

people outside the north literally dont give a fuck who he is... By "they" DnD probably meant the fans of the show.. Way too meta for game of thrones.

[@brittany4884]

My biggest issue is that Cersei barely did anything this season. She is one of the biggest characters on the show and they just had her drinking wine and staring out of the window 😭😭 they did my girl dirty

[@alfor2721]

Daenerys sort of forgot that she wasn't trying to be the queen of the ashes.

[@Toinou307]

That's actually called character development. She was already talking about burning cities to the ground all the way back in season 2.

[@Nathan-jh1ho]

@@Toinou307 when she would die if she didn't get in Qarth and when her city was being shelled.

[@spicelord6264]

End of Season 4 Daenerys: devastated because her dragons killed ONE innocent girl Season 8 Episode 3 Daenerys: Puts herself, her dragons, her army between the living and the dead Season 8 Episode 5 Daenerys: Genocide ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@HarukaNUsagi]

In that short period of time between episodes 8.3 and 8.5, Dany has lost half her people, a child, her oldest trusted advisor, her bestest friend in the world, essentially the man she loved, and a huge part of her identity. Also, she was betrayed by or felt betrayed by her two advisors and the man she loved. Remember, every person reacts to trauma differently. I can't imagine how it feels to go from being alone and used, to having people you trust and love and vice versa, to being alone all over again. Now throw a weapon of mass destruction in the mix and you get 'The Bells'.

[@DragonIsNotASlave]

Yeah, there's a severe disconnect.

[@robertwright4906]

Dany always had it in her, shes had impulses to burn cities for a long time. Shes always been bad, just before she was loved and adored by the people and surrounded by advisors who mad her feel special.

[@danbrown5736]

Muh expectations were subverted

[@queerym87]

Yeah, man... all that and they still don't like her? What did she have left? Just gotta keep trucking? Nah...

[@ethanr6748]

The best lesson in writing these last two seasons have taught us is the importance of pacing. Pacing not rushing and not dragging. DandD rushed hard

[@cullysloy2705]

They wasted all their budget on furniture from season 1-6

[@joanshapiro2775]

... and dragged.

[@CustomTies]

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. People have made hundreds of comments with many different opinions on what wrong with the season. D&D should have done the decent think and allowed HBO sign others to finish it over a few more seasons , not to many. It was rushed.

[@livelyoh8816]

Dumb & Dumber*

[@plisskenetic]

Ethan R Disagree wholesale the pace was right! Just some rough action moments.

[@TheRubberMatch]

Aaron’s decent into madness was way better developed than Daenerys’ was

[@jorgearias3919]

When he yelled 'there are no fucking books!' I felt that frustration.

[@notbrandon2888]

Aaron who?

[@Key-gx2px]

Brandon Koontz right who is aaron

[@CookeAaronJ]

Brandon Koontz He’s the “Nerd Soup Monkey”, the guy on the podcast still trying to defend the show. He’s having an existential crisis since he defended the show so hard and now can’t come to grips with the wheels coming off.

[@patriciazandilencube4597]

After all these seasons, Jon Snow still knows nothing.

[@BH-ix7nq]

You ahh myy queeeeeen

[@krisjustice2681]

Jaime and Cersei are actually hiding out in Cuba with Tupac.

[@caldwellkelley3084]

You get an A+!

[@krisjustice2681]

Australiantatious Good writing is a myth, and chaos is a ladder.

[@icecream6992]

Along with Varys and Petyr, the dream team.

[@aquaphazed]

Facts.

[@moulinyan]

Tupac moved to Trinidad in 2017

[@shane1489]

Sapochnik, the cast and crew cannot be faulted in any way. IMO. Lena Headey could win drama awards by simply staring out a window.... which was probably onto a green screen making it even more impressive.

[@michaelmegson2778]

Even more impressive given the poor quality of the writing this season.

[@kimbya]

Joel Pinnell facts

[@Davemate]

If Rhaegal didn't die to Euron but instead he died due to a betrayal... for example if the bells rang and as Dany flew to the red keep with her dragons Cersei ordered a well hidden Scorpion to kill Rhaegal. Something like this would have made more sense especially if the Lannister soldiers were cowardly and hiding amongst the civilians. Just a small change that could make a difference.

[@takingbacktoxic7898]

yup. They could have had the scorpion hit and kill Dany, and kill her and just have Drogon go berserk and would have been at least believable.

[@KiDDSOMfRADD10]

Exactly!!!!

[@noahelwell2404]

The problem with giving Dany a more obvious trigger into madness (like killing Rhaegal after Cercei's surrender) is that it would at least somewhat rationalize her decision to burn the city -- and Dany being irrational WAS THE POINT. It would no longer be madness but rather blind rage, a totally understandable emotional response. People are rightly critical of Dany's turn being rushed, but giving her a "good" reason to burn King's Landing would have taken away from her new "Mad Queen" status

[@Got-Raider-Camus]

Yeah that would of been huge and more affective. Making her justified in a way for losing her shit.

[@Got-Raider-Camus]

@@noahelwell2404 it still would of made Jon try and stop her. She got triggered and killed a million people. He most likely could not let that risk live on...or she could turn on winterfell with Sansa's schemes. Blind rage or not she still becomes the biggest threat...even Jon tried to save the wildlings so he might not be with her whole genocide regardless.

[@mikebordin6841]

Someone kills Daenerys in Ep 6. “Dany kinda forgot a lot of people might want to kill her after she butchered thousands of innocent civilians” - D&D, probably.

[@dakotafoote6075]

You're not wrong.... Lol

[@Nathan-jh1ho]

Dany kinda forgot she didn't have to kill innocents to become queen.

[@thebeerbaron01]

I believe HBO offered D&D 10 seasons with 10 episode each, but D&D turned them down, claiming they could do it in less time. I think D&D were done with GoT and wanted to move on to other projects.

[@quantumwitcher9376]

Yeah the project is called star wars...they sold out game of thrones for it >_>

[@mjisurdad]

That all true actually. HBO wanted D&D to hand off the show to someone else but instead rushed it.

[@thebeerbaron01]

@@mjisurdad Really! And look at the results. They should've gave it to someone else if they're heart's wern't in it anymore.

[@CustomTies]

Yep ,that's it. They should have done the decent thing and let others finish it. They were in a win win situation .

[@Bjj827]

That is sad. They have spent a monumental amount of time building up to the end and then they threw it away in 2 episodes

[@johannjohann8016]

You know the show is disappointing when even team Nerd Soup criticize the show haha

[@viksaggu9085]

Johann Johann pretty much eh? In my opinion, the episode was lost when Danny had zero motivation. All they needed was ppl to call Jon the king and she would have been pissed.

[@johannjohann8016]

@@viksaggu9085 They could've saved the season by letting Dany say "You dont want to wake the dragon" a couple times during the 1st 4 episodes then snapping when the bells rang and seeing Cersei smiling by saying "You woke the dragon" before she went on the genocide spree

[@francisedwards8786]

The other guy who I'm not sure the name is trying so hard to stick up for it.

[@bazonga9085]

Roger the Space Marine I can’t believe it but theirs still idiots that defend it. It’s disgusting. And they think they’re right too.

[@johannjohann8016]

@@francisedwards8786 No even the blue guy broke during episode 5 and checked his twitter feed hehe

[@SasukeUchiha5DX]

That moment when Sam has killed more people than the Golden Company.

[@francisedwards8786]

They're sellswords, one of them probably managed to get in on the raping once they respawned with the Doth'raki.

[@thesummrbaby]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@andrewhte9304]

The Butcher's boy with a wooden sword did more damage.

[@tayvionwallace1784]

Dude this fucked up.😂😂😂😂

[@royr2854]

GalaxyDragon Sam didn't fight a dragon.. 🤔

[@briankerstiens3550]

I’m not gonna lie if the last two seasons had been longer and had competent writers I think they could have been the two best seasons of tv history. The mad queen twist with the right hands would have been amazing if there was any hint of actual foreshadowing.

[@lewishurley5591]

Season 7 should have been built around the white walkers and that battle then have season 8 being built around the politics and Dany becoming mad queen

[@Lyndiloo]

Foreshadowing isn't character development. You can look back and say there were signs all along, but there was no justification. It was like they said "We need Dany to go nuts, how can we destroy everything she holds dear as quickly as possible? Loss, loss, risk everything for nothing, rejection, loss, rejection, loss, betrayal - okay, now she can go bonkers!"

[@briankerstiens3550]

Lyndi Wittmann I think that they aren’t the same but foreshadowing is something that is more important because character development can be a form of foreshadowing and not the other way around.

[@kylestyyle987]

You’re right, it should’ve been tragic, heartbreaking, powerful. It wasn’t any of those things for me, just confusing.

[@milesruby3271]

Whats confusing about it? She's in a weakened emotional state and on top of the most powerful weapon in the world and she did something out of character. To me it was heartbreaking to see her make that choice and snap. It was tragic and heartbreaking because for the most part, we all generally like Dany and she committed basically the biggest atrocity in GoT history.Pretty powerful moment to me. Also, I thought Emilia did a great job in that scene.

[@savions4005]

Miles Ruby it’s confusing because it was so abrupt and out of character. It’s took me out of the show and I wasn’t able to enjoy anything after that. D&D are terrible writers

[@awesimo4684]

@@milesruby3271 Completely took me out of the show too. "And then she went mad and killed everyone." That's the whole nuance of the writing here. It didn't help that Drogon was inexplicably in Nuclear-God-Mode for the whole episode. Where was this mode in episode 3? He would have destroyed the army of the dead on his own in 2 minutes with Nuclear-God-Mode.

[@Exel3nce]

@@milesruby3271 confusing because oout of character, easy

[@BH-ix7nq]

She lost her best friend missandei, her most loyal and trusted partner Jorah, 2 of her children, and her love Jon. What's there left for her? Why not just say fuck it and burn it all down? P.s. this is all Jon's fault. If he would've given her the D she would've chillaxed

[@tankninja1]

I Love the smell of dragonfire in the morning. Smells like... Victory.

[@chetzmom65]

Actually it smells like FAILURE. We could've done with less CGI dragons and MORE characters arc & story.

[@tankninja1]

@@chetzmom65 I USE RAMIN DJAWADI. IT SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF THE LANNISTERS. MY BOYS LOVE IT.

[@cvox607]

Kit probably had an affair with one of DD wives The way they treat Jon this season . .you can taste the indifference

[@laurocoman]

What about the rest of the cast? Maybe everyone had a affair with their wives because every character has been butchered since season 6. Arya became inmortal back in that season. Remember when she got stabbed in the gut, thrown in sewer water and she was fine?

[@rqneo5361]

Daenerys got worse

[@redel37]

without knowing Dan's wife, I would definitely choose David's one.

[@oyblech8671]

"you're my queen" "she's our queen!" "you're my queen" these are all his lines basically just, hey kit, be background decoration and spread your arse for emilia once in a while

[@xChocoFudgeZz2012]

shame he didn't get any Polaroids

[@aydan4431]

Totally agree with the possibility of Dany going mad queen, but they demonstrated the progression so badly it's almost impossible to believe

[@MCB741]

Aydan Hussain sure

[@jfilms6106]

It wasn't that bad. On a rewatch of the series I'll bet I'll be able to see more of the signs.

[@Dkingof]

"we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." - dany season TWO

[@MastaBlastaS99]

@@Dkingof " I am not here to be Queen of the ashes ". Dany season 7, bit more recent lol. Also notice in your quote she mentioned the people " who'd wronged her ". Didn't know old women and babies wronged Danaerys.

[@emanethan8767]

jack bran well I as a book reader have felt that she was going to do that for a while. I agree it was terribly foreshadowed on the show but in the books I could kinda see her doing something like this. Now what I think is that they should have had like an entire season dedicated to her descending into madness.

[@MrJonnyl123]

Now these guys know how fans are of the white walker storyline felt after the long night debacle

[@Slacktionman]

R Parker what does anime have to do with got?

[@TheMurrmursonbottle]

R Parker Honey this is the wrong place to whine about anime

[@johnapple6646]

@@normandy2501 grown adults dont watch anime

[@johnapple6646]

@@normandy2501 weeb

[@tankninja1]

Aw man I really liked the idea of the Mad Queen except, EVERYTHING THAT MADE HER THE MAD QUEEN.

[@mint83]

"The episode felt hollow" Thank you, I couldn't quite find the words to explain why I didn't love this episode. You are right

[@clowncatttt]

this kind of character transformation wouldnt just take multiple episodes, itd take multiple seasons which hbo was willing to do but dnd wanted to play star wars so rip

[@devyn1772]

The actors were ready to move on too.

[@BigHenFor]

@@devyn1772 They would be with duff scripts

[@devyn1772]

They've been doing the show for over a decade. They can't accept other roles because of GoT at times.

[@AstartesGaming]

@@devyn1772 Which actors? They were all pretty broken up about it ending in interviews. Everything Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington have been in outside of GoT has flopped, and Lena Headey was basically bankrupt a few years ago. I'm sure they'd all love to continue having consistent work that pays a small fortune.

[@GJBedrin]

@@AstartesGaming i mean being broken up about ending something you've working on for a decade and saying goodbye to all the work friends you've made doesn't really mean you want to work on it for eternity either.

[@chrissimao14]

The story was completely lopsided for Daenerys to go mad when she arrived at Westeros. She was always faced with a lose - lose suituation. The deliberate dumbing down of her advisers Tyrion and Varys was aid to give us the illusion that everything wasn't going her way thus mad Queen. Pretty lazy writing

[@xJadeWolfxx]

I watched another fantastic video that was a breakdown of "Foreshadowing is not character development" it was really good. But they pointed out something clear. Dany lost and failed when she listened to her advisors, and she lost and failed when she didn't listen to her advisors. She was literally set up to fail, over and over, and not through poor choices, but through poor writing. I'm not doing the video justice, but regardless. Her advisors cost her everything, and when she stopped listening to them she still failed. How is that good writing?

[@jimlang7461]

Tyrion wasn't 'dumbed down'... he had divided loyalties. He was never able to actually betray his family.

[@MistahJay7]

@@jimlang7461 You're a jackass if you think Tyrion hasn't been dumbed down compare to his character from seasons 1-5

[@chrissimao14]

@@jimlang7461 His loyalty lied with Jamie and by extension Cersie because of Jamie's love for her...but devided loyalty has nothing to do with Tyrion being several steps behind or just flat out wrong.

[@tashaballard116]

She was always headed this way. This show is set in a cruel world where you have to meet power with power. Sword vs. Sword is the only thing these folks understand. I don't think it is lazy or convenient. I think burning down the city was a little risky when you think about the writing. They destroyed the Lannisters in about 30 minutes but if you listen it sounded like that was coming the whole time. Tyrion let them Jaime know early the city would be sacked once the Mad Queen went off....

[@TheReVmatch]

The problem is that she went from being good, to someone who was worse than the night king and killed far more people. The swing was too drastic and too fast

[@TheTwinkiefoot]

Was it? I felt there was bread crumbs to this happening since season 1. There is the obvious fact that this behavior is genetic. Then there are moments when her attitude becomes icy cold, like when Drogo killed her brother. All she needed was the trigger and that came when her inner sanctum started to die off.

[@Spongebrain97]

Also the mountain was harder to kill than the NK and Cersei who is the big bad of the show does nothing the last season and has a lame death

[@anitapepita1909]

Okay..maybe it was "sudden"... but WAS IT? REALLY? i dont think it was... it was clear from the start... its only cuz of jorah that she kept her Cray-cray under wraps

[@TheReVmatch]

TheTwinkiefoot yeah but not this level of bad this fast. Doesn’t make sense. Kill 10’s of thousands of innocents after AFTER a victory is on another level of evil that not even Cersei had gotten to. The change to too drastic at once. I’m ok with the change, but not like this

[@robertwright4906]

The point was she was never good, just good when its convenient. Everyone seems to miss this point

[@11babo3b]

So do you think Varys heard "Dracarys" in the flames so long ago?

[@ricardosoria717]

Kinkajov you should have been a writer for the show. Then again, anyone else should have been a writer for the show... but still, I meant that as a compliment.

[@mjisurdad]

Devan Gulacsi what did she say?

[@seppet0ni]

I think he heard a Lil Pump song, that's why he wasn't afraid of dying.

[@SleevezGaming]

The fact we won't ever know really annoys me ffs

[@csillakaszas7285]

@Devan Gulacsi I doubt that the warlock went through the trouble of the whole ritual, just to learn that the boy he cut is supposed to die in Westeros. `Hello demon, (possibly the lord of light,) what`s gonna happen with that redhead I am trying to get in my bed? also, do you want me to sacrifice the kid now?`... well... he could have been told that he is gonna grow up, capture him and keep him in a box. too bad

[@cavalierking1001]

Me: Season 7 you suck Season 7: wait till you see season 8

[@sacrosby]

Exactly!

[@blindmanai6957]

"I've heard too many opinions. I'm opinionated out." - This needs to be on a shirt.

[@jaguarking2892]

Emilia's acting was so good that she managed to sell this monstrosity, and half the audience believed it.

[@NawiTheCore]

The dumb half...

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Ned's execution: not just always on the table, but we get an episode in between to not only build anticipation, but also to give the audience hope. The Red Wedding: Not just always on the table, but we get a few episodes in between, to not only build anticipation, but also to give the audience hope. Dany going Mad: has been on the table since season 1. BUT- Dany committing Genocide: only put on the table, just minutes before it happens, when Dany says "mercy to future generations". This is why so many people take issue with this "twist". The twists have NEVER been twists. They've always been an option, significantly before the "twist" itself. Moments like Ned's execution, the Red Wedding, Jon's death - are all like watching a coin slowly flip in the air over the course of an episode or three, and waiting for it to land. I think the weirdest part to me is that season 6, 7 and episodes 1-3 of s8 are Winds of Winter and episodes 4-6 of S8 are A Dream of Spring. I'm almost positive George has said that the white walkers will be dealt with in Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring is going to deal with the aftermath. Obviously giving one book 2 and 1/2 seasons and another book 3 episodes of a season is going to feel bad, regardless of what you do.

[@sarikatimmi]

Allyson Wonderland ASMR genocide was never on the table. as she was flying over and they were running i was like ppl it’s fine, it’s not you she’s after. then when she lit them up i was like shit i guess ure right, run faster.

[@veteran0121]

Sorry but she was threatening to burn Quarth back in season 2. This was the longest buildup in the show. What we probably didn't expect was it to be King's Landing getting burned by Daenerys. Cersei more than Danerys. My point is Daenerys has been talking about burning cities for a long time....she's mad. Anybody that thinks burning cities to liberate them as a noble cause is nuts. She's squeamish about violence by sword but loves burning people...just like her father. When she's in a good mood she can be compassionate but that is pretty much her only redeeming quality.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@@sarikatimmi you definitely missed that "Mercy for future Generations" line then. She literally says that. Which is the only single time genocide is put on the table as an option. It's crap, don't get me wrong, but it is put on the table.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@Phuk Google you're not comprehending what I'm saying and you are arguing in a mirror to yourself right now.

[@iloveyourunclebob]

@@veteran0121 you also are not comprehending what I'm saying and are having an argument with yourself in a mirror. Also, that Qarth quote is incredibly out of context. Who would Dany of burned alive if Qarth did not open their doors for her? Not a single person. They would have starved and died. She threatens them again because she's still desperate. Taking the desperation out is completely changing the context. The only times she has threatened to burn cities to the ground, on the show specifically, is out of desperation. Taking it out of context does not change that. This was not an act of desperation. Complete contradiction to all the times people say that she's threatened to burn cities.

[@willsi]

The flip made little sense for me b/c of Daenerys' reaction to meeting Sam in Winterfell. She showed regret, realization of consequences to actions and growth/maturity/change. Then, BOOM, Mad Queen. Ten episodes was the way to go (as commented on the last episode). The best direction was to destroy the Red Keep w/ what they were working w/. Solid talks, and I enjoy the podcast a lot.

[@jessika702]

I thought the opposite. It seemed like the look she gave Sam was cold & almost seemed to say "Yeah, and I'd do it again if i could".

[@lowercase21]

Well Jon didn't give her the D so fuck the world.

[@mariyamkhandwani]

Did she even say sorry ? I don’t recall

[@jessika702]

@@mariyamkhandwani About killing Sam's father & brother? No she definitely didn't apologize or show regret. She stood there stone faced & defended her decision.

[@bruce221]

For the first time I feel like you are all missing the point. She didn’t go Mad Queen. She choose fear. He army didn’t lose to “put her back against the wall” like you said in the last review. Her back was against the wall because, just like in The Long Night, despite HER bringing the Dragons and armies John was gonna get the credit. She’s not mad, she knows if she stopped she would win the throne for maybe a month. Every advisor left just betrayed her. Jon told Sansa, Tyrion told Varys and Varys tried to poison her. She has no support, 1/3 of her dragons and less than half her armies. Her claim on the throne was even taken away. She didn’t snap, she realized FEAR was her only claim to the Iron Throne... Is that crazy? She walked out of a fire with three Dragons because she was chosen to save the world. She thinks the ends justify the means.

[@tibor420]

Finally some sense. Thank you.

[@TheFloresDermatology]

I'm just going to pretend that when Danny is on the dragon and the bell rings, she addresses the people of King's landing and they reject her. They call her Foreigner and usurper which is what makes her snap. She was denied all the love she so desperately craved. That 30 second scene would have changed the entire episode.

[@roxystarlite4106]

I just imagine that the bells didnt ring and Cersei forced her hand to make the people fear her. Lol

[@iloveyourunclebob]

I like to imagine that she still was going to snap, but she's going to snap at Cersei and the red keep. Cersei's last trick is that she has Wildfire stashed in the red keep - if she's going out she's taking half a King's Landing with her. And that's why dany snaps because she's resigned to her fate of being Queen of the Ashes. OR I like to imagine that The Siege and plague in Mereen happened in the show. In that moment, Dany is hearing her people in Mereen screaming and crying for help and she is reminded of how helpless and angry she was and snaps.

[@TheFloresDermatology]

@@iloveyourunclebob both of these would have worked for me as well.

[@TheFloresDermatology]

@Shirley Timple the terror was definitely there but her reason for doing it, which was no reason, made me not believe what I was watching and took me out of the entire episode.

[@deankruse2891]

I think she felt that way regardless

[@antoniobrandao7139]

I love your show but I can’t stop imagining this podcast is hosted by Brian from Family Guy.😂

[@Em-ih5du]

God fucking dammit I thought it was just me

[@DominicanStud101]

I can never unsee this now.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

OMG

[@stevnated]

what? no. I'm not even going to think about it, You people ruin everything!

[@valdreger8899]

NOOOOO. If Ayra had Drogon after her father died, Kings Landing would have burned.

[@valdreger8899]

@@milkman2266 Sure, but emotional weakness to grief in pain and anger is not an age-dependent behavioral consequence of trauma.

[@indeathsquad]

milk man22 no Dany is 24/25 she was 17 at the start and Arya is 18/19 she was 11 at the start.

[@mtr2457]

An 8 year old Arya wouldn’t have burned down 10s of thousands of innocents she would have know to prioritize the red keep because her entire character has been listing the specific people she wants to fucking kill and her balancing revenge and going back to family

[@dunchie747]

@@valdreger8899 it is, a grown woman will handle her grief in a more controlled sense than that of a child. It varies alot but in general.

[@EviIM0nk3y]

@@mtr2457 she would of grabbed her magic trampoline and catapult stab everyone.

[@mattatthome]

Foreshadowing isnt character development.

[@KMFDM_Kid2000]

Repeating other people's talking points isn't a personality.

[@mattatthome]

@@KMFDM_Kid2000 more than 1 person is allowed to have talking points you dunce.

[@KMFDM_Kid2000]

@@mattatthome why are you making excuses for being a lemming?

[@mattatthome]

@@KMFDM_Kid2000 lol who the fuck uses lemming as an insult? Anyway, why are you making excuses for the show? Theres clearly a reason why a petition to remake season 8 has 1 million sigs already lol rip.

[@Hejon25]

Her saying things she would do is not foreshadowing its character traits that she has, they don't need a lot of development to show.

[@ARWG]

I wish I could be as positive as Aaron about this whole disaster of a season. I really don't understand how anyone who loves the story as much as you guys do, could enjoy this season at all really.

[@sapien153]

I do. :)

[@katherinemiller9532]

Aaron is usually the pessimist. It’s nice to see him optimistic.

[@qwerty9398]

@@sapien153 Good.Enjoy. I am just waiting for more memes.

[@GJBedrin]

Basically just went into the season with no expectations and just wanted to enjoy it for what it is and so far it's worked. I've enjoyed every episode and have been on the edge if my seat quite a bit

[@GUV85]

@@GJBedrin That's exactly how I've approached it! It was always going to be rushed so I've enjoyed it for what it is and not what it could be!

[@knockitoffhudson3470]

The problem isn't even that she turns out to be a mad Queen. It's that they portrayed her as a pure saviour, she always was motivated by helping people. The setup is all wrong if they wanted to have this pay off.

[@ChanaJessica]

This is exactly what I thought. In the books she is more nuanced and I could see her going mad queen there but in the show she was pure savior. Makes 0 sense

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

well she helped some but cut off the heads of others lol

[@sapien153]

Well. The setup is perfect imo. In Essos, Dany saved the cities from cities, hence earning the title liberator. But she always wanted westeros because she's entitled to her "birthright". There's no slavery to end in westeros. And the realm is doing reasonably good with Cersei in the south and Jon in the north that it doesn't need any saving from an external conqueror. She realises this and that there's no reason for people to love her. She chooses the only path to achieve her goal. Fear.

[@cgonzo]

The whole purpose of not showing her face after she started burning the innocents WAS to dehumanize her. She became the dragon.

[@aimal666]

Also to mirror that when nukes and carpet bombs are falling from the sky, the people who die don’t see the people flying these jets, only the fire raining down on them.

[@seanreitman8712]

C Gonzo yeah. Still stupid

[@itsnotnaeyo]

Foreshadowing is not even a quasi-adequate stand-in for real, coherent character development.

[@Hrogthar]

"BUt YOurE juSt MaD It WasNt WhAT U waNTeD"

[@dianneburke5330]

There was character development that this was headed in this direction that had nothing to do with foreshadowing.

[@pluginleah]

So many people crying that there "wasn't enough character development" while character development just means that the character faces challenges and makes different decisions as the story goes on.... kinda like when Dany threatened to burn down every city she's encountered, but was convinced to not do it, then faced more challenges than ever before and made a different decision.

[@dianneburke5330]

These characters were already well developed a long time ago.

[@magicman205]

I just dont understand how somebody can claim that it is abandoning previously set up character development when they are citing examples of what a character did and acted seasons ago. Saying Dany becoming Mad Queen is against her character because of what she did when she had an army, advisors, respect, and a future ahead of her versus who she is now- someone who has lost everything essentially- is not understanding her character arc. Dany devolved into an insane person brought on by the events of the series. To compare Dany from season 3 to Dany of season 8 is unfair because she isn't the same character. It was character development. It's like people don't know how to accurately criticize anymore.

[@connorfoley8611]

On the point that Jaimie didn’t change, only are perspective did, I disagree. I think both happened, I think our perspectives changed first, and during and after losing his hand he changed as well and developed as a character. Maybe he wouldn’t have thrown a kid out the window in season 4, but I don’t think he would have in season 8 episode 1 and 2. That’s why he apologized to bran, showing he had grown.

[@SpruceZT]

Yeah, Jaime did change to become more honorable/good, but that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't still have feelings towards his sister, which is rooted in his childhood and his entire adult life.

[@interzone8468]

in fact they should have called this one THE BELL and the last episode END

[@jjackflash8907]

Tywin wiped out houses by drowning them , and sacked King's Landing but he wasn't Mad.

[@268dbs]

Dude we all know Tywin was a ruthless and evil guy. Danny has never been portrayed as that, sure she's done morally grey things but shes always cared about the common ppl and never hurting innocents.

[@jgpuglisi]

Innocents didn't die. soldiers did. Tyrion saved the entire civilian population by winning the Battle of Blackwater, if Stannis had succeeded most of the city would have been put to the sword.

[@268dbs]

@@jgpuglisi what do you mean innocents didn't die, Danny literally burned the civilians of kings Landing, did you not see that mother and child die?

[@jgpuglisi]

TC Nigel I was talking to OP and referring the Battle of Blackwater

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

Jessica he talked about the Rains of Castamere when Tywin drowned everybody

[@Beansbeansbeanz]

RIP to this comment section cause it's about to be a mess

[@MrDucktastic]

It's such a shame. The acting and production has been incredible. This writing has just killed it. I could even see the prequels getting cancelled at this rate.

[@HySteria909]

I think if they advertise "UNDER ALL NEW MANAGEMENT!" people will come back, the blame has been fairly placed upon D&D

[@siddharthmehta6397]

"This is kind of nice, but I hate it" "Season 8 in a nutshell" accurate

[@tashaballard116]

I am confused by this reviewer? Is it beautiful or is it badly written? If you really get past being a critical reviewer just for the sake of it, I think you will find some beauty in this episode. Everyone these days just wants to be overly critical and just crap on everything...Danerys has been going slowly mad for a while now and there is no more reason to analyze other than her DNA is off..Look at her family. She was sold off to the Dothraki by her brother?

[@Exel3nce]

@@tashaballard116 because it is crap. do you think people want to shit on someting they love?

[@anthonypetty1777]

YES! If Rhagel/John had tried to stop Danny and we had a Dance of Dragons over Kings Landing would have been more true to the Narrative.

[@kerrychristensen7204]

👏 Yesss. Dragonfire + Cashes of wildfire... 🔥

[@Wizard_Pikachu]

Great ideas, poor execution. Not enough time to build up, despite the hints throughout the entire series.

[@heathertobin5790]

It was so much more apparent in the books. That's why I have always said she is not my favorite character. John, Arya, and Tyrion in no particular order are my favorite for different reasons. The writing sucked after surpassing books. Can't wait for the books to end it correctly. Also I wonder if HBO is making Martin hold the books till after the long night prequel so as to not spoil the series.

[@MV-xz7so]

I keep thinking to myself that if Cersei had walked Missandei through King’s Landing in shackles and chains, whilst the people of Kings Landing laughed and threw stones at her (while Danerys was watching). Then Cersei killed Missandei in front of her, then maybe the pay off for Danerys burning innocents would have worked. Better yet, if Cersei said something cool like “all she has to do is walk from the Red Keep to these gates and she’s yours” and then the people of King’s Landing stoned her to death, then Danerys would be angry at Cersei but would also learn a valuable lesson that the people of King’s Landing aren’t as innocent as she thought they would be. It would’ve been a good scene. And would have mirrored the scene in earlier seasons when Cersei made the walk to the Red Keep.

[@Vinny-bb2tj]

the problem is they wasted 2 episodes one and two, they could have used those to make dany crazyer

[@last7509]

the real problem is that after 8 years of giving the audience obvious clues, they didnt see them .... and now people are mad because their own brains failed them...

[@NickHunter]

@@last7509 totally agree, also the first 2 episodes were very much about alienating Dany, the 4th and beginning of the 5th were just the final nails

[@CodySvsTheNet]

Unfortunately those were the best two written eps whereas the last 4 are weisbeniof bullshit writing

[@CodySvsTheNet]

@@last7509 obvious clues such as never harming innocent ppl? You're a fool

[@last7509]

@Ton Jones I tend to agree with you. But somehow I dont think its rushed. I think this sh - t show is how it should be. People want this clean clever movement of the story but I think it SHOULD be a mess because humans ARE a mess.

[@bogeyboi]

I have come to the realization that Dany’s turn was inevitable.

[@MastaBlastaS99]

Care to explain why? I wholely disagree :P

[@HamuraiC-137]

Cynical Chimp she talked about burning cities to the ground in season1.

[@splitfries69]

Hey it's about revenge

[@splitfries69]

Not madness

[@MastaBlastaS99]

@@HamuraiC-1371. " I am not here to be Queen of the ashes ". Direct quote from her in Season 7. 2. At no point in time had Danaerys shown the inclination or willingness to slaughter innocent people. Not once in this nearly decade long show. She'd kill soldiers yah, and she's accidentally kill some innocent people via collateral, but she's never once targeted them until this episode.

[@Moongirl12121]

Daenerys went from chaotic good to chaotic evil real quick.

[@KMFDM_Kid2000]

Chaos tends to do that.

[@ControlLingOo]

Also ... what was the point about "evening the odds" of the Long Night episode, when Daenerys just annihilates everything ?

[@rev.chuckshingledecker]

ControlLingOo subversion!!!! LOL

[@AnadynTheCursed]

Some even-odded battles are still won by an enormous margin, especially if you go from the rear, break their ranks and force them to flee. The main flaw of the battle was overselling of the ballistas before it, really, especially in the last episode. "Ooh, they're so dangerous, look, look!" worked for one episode, but didn't connect with this one. It's not an impossible chain of events (ambush vs defence, weather, morale, whatever), but it is one that is very hard to sell in such a short amount of time.

[@hjsimmer1742]

Your breakdowns and discussions are always my favorite. You put everything I’m feeling into words. 💜 Totally agree with Aaron about how this arc could have been so good with more time. The Dany we knew up until this point would NEVER murder innocents. It made no sense at all. I’m so frustrated that it happened this way and that it happened in the second to last episode!! If they had just given us 10 episodes for seasons 7&8 there would have been time to give this story line the attention it deserves. They could have even had the Long Night go down at the end of season 7 and then devote all of season 8 to this plot line. It could have been so good! HBO wanted more episodes so we know it wasn’t a budget issue. If the show writers just “wanted to be done” and rush through it, they should have hired another writer or something who would have finished it properly.

[@therealangelosettler]

How many times have we seen toxic relationships where someone claims to leave and they always comeback

[@jonathanblaze1648]

After one person sends an assassin to kill the other. Zero.

[@oliviercolletaz5841]

problem is, once again, how it's done. jaime decides to go back to her after learning the iron fleet murdered a dragon (sounds stupid and it is, but go back to the episode, that's fucking true) that makes absolutely no sense in any way shape or form. and that's without mentionning the whole brienne thing and the whole bronn thing.

[@Nattiexs]

@@oliviercolletaz5841 They really ruined a marvelous character.

[@the1onlynoob]

Dany ‘the maximum casualty zig-zag’ Targaryen

[@Lyndiloo]

All our complaining about Rickon not zigzagging and D&D go "You want a fucking zigzag? We'll give you a fucking zigzag."

[@mjisurdad]

Lyndi Wittmann this is gold 😂🤣😂🤣

[@danielbaker2545]

@@Lyndiloo my favorite GoT comment of the week. Well played

[@plasmathunderdx]

Daenerys sees one burnt child and locks up her dragons. Season 8 she burns hundreds or even thousands alive.

[@BH-ix7nq]

Not in the same mental state. You can't even compare them

[@ozking842]

@@BH-ix7nq Sadly why the hell would she go and fight for the living if in season 8 her mental health had issues? It was after the loss of all that she loved was taken away by ungrateful people who half her army died for..

[@chetzmom65]

I think the biggest takeaway from this is that D&D killed a truly great series with Cliff Notes. This could have been done in 10 episodes or another season. This feels like seeing the beginning of Titanic, then leaving and coming back for the last moments on the boat. It's really BAD.

[@amhk5918]

If they had just let Euron kill the second dragon in this episode, the mad queen thing wouldn't have been _that_ impossible to understand.

[@numericalhorror185]

AMHK THIS. Rhaegal falls and she absolutely loses it and burns the Lannister armies even after the surrender and flies to the Red Keep (but doesn’t burn literal children)

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

Yep, if that happened right after the surrender, it would make things slightly better. But anyway, this show is dead for years now. I went in expecting a nice CGi spectacle, I had that. Character development and good story lines? Naah, it's not wise to expect this at this stage.

[@Elcrisso1]

Quick fix would be if Cersei has a stalemate with Dany and Tyrion at the end of episode 4. She could have said “Missandei will be resisiding with me in the Red Keep. I have planted reserves of Wildfire throughout Kings Landing. If you attack the Red Keep your friend will die and a million innocent people will burn.” Dany destroys the scorpions and Golden Company in episode 5, years the bells toll and Cersei, knowing she has lost, kills Missandei to spur Daenerys to retaliate and her soldiers to be forced to continue the battle. Dany would then be forced between selfish vengeance (and possibly calling Cersei’s bluff if there actually was no Wildfire), or be the benevolent Queen and accept the surrender despite Cersei murdering Missandei. She would choose violence and the people would pay the price. That would give more humanisiation to the destruction of King’s Landing because her decisions would have led to the massacre but NOT her actions. Mad or not, she wouldn’t commit genocide for no fucking reason like she did in the episode, burning thousands of children alive.

[@RRRRRRRRR33]

@@Elcrisso1 But that's the thing, madness = not any kind of reasoning. Her reaction to genocide the city can be tied with classic concepts about the randomness (chaos) of madness. Your description (like many) was very good and much better than what the show did... But in the end, there's always the fundamental problem of lack of characterization from Daenerys. One thing is to foreshadow... another is to actually built a backstory. There's only foreshadow, typical hollywood lazy writing. People complain about this kind of weak writing on star wars, GoT, the captain marvel movie, etc.. recent examples of shitty ass blockbusters. I hope the industry improves... even if the public has short memory.

[@Elcrisso1]

R But that’s my point, she didn’t need to go literally genocidal and mad. They could have made Jon turn mad by raping Small Folk during the battle. We would have hated him for it, and even if the show led up to it by having him “fight his internal conflict” a couple of times beforehand; it would have still felt like they were throwing his entire character arc under the bus for the sake of forcing a new main big bad in the penultimate episode. We were all fine with the Night King being the big magic threat and Cersei being the OG political threat. Seeing Dany burn tens of thousands of children alive makes no sense in terms of her character; what the fans wanted; the the character deserved and certainly doesn’t make for interesting writing.

[@melissaseltun9388]

I think there is a 2 logical errors used here. 1) grief is extremely personal. It doesn’t matter to anyone who someone else has lost when your experiencing grief. 2) once you get used to burning people alive, once you decide burning to death is an appropriate punishment, the justification rapidly decline in quality

[@tashaballard116]

Great point. Once you start burning the world it is probably hard to stop...She went pure mad and anger works that way sometimes...how do you stop when you start thinking about all the personal losses she had been handed...I think it is just a great direction for everyone to be surprised by the anger of this response...

[@jeremyhulbert3343]

Cerci's plan to goad Dany into a rage-attack was actually genius. Unfortunately, the writers gave every single scorpion a sudden case of stormtrooper aim despite a display of their incredible accuracy 1 show ago (they went 3 for 3 before the dragons were in range to breathe fire, and 2 of those were critical hits).

[@GJBedrin]

It also kind of fits in with her being the same person who's plan to take out the Martell's was to give power to a militant group she can no longer control. And that decision but her in the ass too

[@jm329]

Stormtroopers are actually good shots.

[@ChichiNaka]

Arya with plotarmor thicker than the Harry Potter series Also is dragonfire explosive now? Harrenhall melted, the gates the golden company and the red keep literally explode

[@junobi89]

Chiyori Nakanishi but Harry was the chosen one

[@stefanorocha8833]

Right??

[@feliz_1990]

Bringing Harry Potter into this is just wrong .... different story context world and he always said I was lucky never pretended to be a highly trained wizard

[@BigHenFor]

It can be if the stone is the type of stone that explodes. Material, structure, and water content (Winter is damp) all can make stonework when it's heated to an extreme temperature quickly.

[@ozking842]

@@BigHenFor Jon in episode 3 was attempted many times with blue flames.. Plot Armour..

[@allprogrows358]

Daenarys is S2 "When my dragons are grown... We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." and "I will take back what is mine in fire and blood."

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

While she was starving to death in the desert begging for help...outside of Qarth. So, yeah no. In show was ALWAYS a savior, generally against violence..even the fighting pits..locked her dragons up bc one child died.

[@noobishmacgaming]

D Basquez they actually address this and the other strawman defenses of mad dany in this podcast. She was going to die if she didn’t get her people into quarth. She was a desperate teenager who had dragons the size of housecats. She didn’t burn the city when she left, she killed her enemies and a maid that betrayed her. If they had succeeded, she would’ve been imprisoned possibly permanently.

[@The810kid]

@@noobishmacgaming she had no problem with Khal Drogo and his speech of winning her the iron throne by murdering soldiers, raping women, and enslaving children. Plus she was so Happy to birth the stallion that will mount the world.

[@noobishmacgaming]

The810kid but then she spent the next several seasons doing things like freeing slaves, not pillaging common people. You can reach far to try to explain this genocide crap; but they didn’t set it up effectively.

[@The810kid]

@@noobishmacgaming she also spent the next seasons doing what ever she wanted having her advisors having to talk her out of rash moves some she ended up doing anyway she has always come across as a self righteous hypocrite and the minute ppl stopped kissing her ass she couldn't handle the rejection.

[@DirkPiddlemark]

Hello, X Men Origins: Wolverine This is who they are

[@MyJoshcross]

Their script was so completely different from what we saw it didn't even have Deadpool in it.

[@ShinyBusterBaby]

Mmmmm... I don't know about that. I feel like Wolverine Origins although I enjoyed, found it cohesive using a different backstory. I don't really like the stuff with Deadpool and the crew getting killed but I feel a lot of it still carried a paced out story. They at least didn't get the characterization wrong. The way they took Dany from 0 to 1000 and try to make 7 seasons seem like it's called for her going outside her character arc, into a mad descent into darkness... THIS WAS NOT PAY OFF. This was the chance for them to have a clash of mad queens, and they wanted to pack it into a half an episode. They should've at the very least added 6 more episodes to this season to try and pay off her anger. And Danerys was a champion for women and children. Regardless of everything, mad queen or not, she wouldn't have done that. It's a mischaracterization.

[@twstf8905]

I've absolutely LOVED this season so far! And it was CERSEI who was responsible for destroying the city, and the deaths of all those innocent people, by betraying Daenerys and executing Missandei. But, nobody should be surprised that Daenerys has a, "breaking point." What makes Game of Thrones great is how there's no, "all good," or, "all evil," characters, all of them have within themselves the potential for BOTH good and evil, in equal parts, just like in real life. Just like a good story SHOULD be. Push someone far enough, even the most benevolent character, and especially someone who is immune to fire and controls a fully grown Dragon lol and you'll quickly discover the atrocities they're capable of. Ever since she sailed to Westeros Daenerys has steadily and systematically lost almost EVERYTHING she spent the previous Seven seasons trying to gain, all because she was being advised to, "play nice," while her opponents played however they wanted. Tyrion, the brother of her greatest enemy, has advised her against acting like her enemies, which has left her too restrained for TOO long, and not only has it kept her at a perpetual disadvantage, it has cost her two of her three Dragons, her best friend, all but one of her Westerosi Allies, and over half of her Armies. It's not too much of a stretch that she finally says, "F it!" and burns King's Landing down to the foundation stones. Sure, her sudden, "snap," was shocking, but it wasn't surprising whatsoever. I don't see Jon betraying Daenerys, though. Even when Varys tried warning him, saying, "You'll rule wisely, while she---" Jon cut him off; "SHE is my Queen!" And then later, after watching her execute Varys, Jon again pledged both his love and loyalty to her, knowing full well what she was likely to do next. And if we've learned ANYTHING about Jon, it's that he, "never swears an oath he cannot uphold." Besides, Jon's northern Army was raping and murdering JUST as much, if not more, than anyone else in King's Landing! The internal conflict of these characters is what separates this show from all the others. If you're disappointed because you expected more from them, it's because your expectations were unrealistically lofty. Most people should be aware by now that Game of Thrones has NEVER made a story choice based on whether it will make the fans happy or "satisfied." And none of the characters have ever had what anyone would consider a, "perfect," end. (Just ask Locke lol his mission was cut short VERY suddenly!) Making the deaths of characters like Cersei and Jaime more dramatic or cathartic would only be predictable fan service, what matters is that they're DEAD. Being upset about how they died NOW, at the end won't change anything. People are whining about Jaime's, "character development," lol as if he was a bad guy who has steadily turned good, and if that's what you think you CLEARLY haven't been paying attention! There ARE no, "bad," or, "good," characters in Game of Thrones. The whole POINT is that they're ALL people, like us, and like anyone else, with equal amounts of either and the potential for BOTH. (And what makes people think Wildfire has ANY chance of being effective against someone who has literally walked through fire lol TWICE already?!) But, trying to please everyone is losing battle. And, since happy fans typically don't have anything to whine and cry about lol all the negativity is to be expected from the, "vocal minority," who's hopes were so high now they have further to fall. (BTW, it was CLEARLY, "Dracarys!" that Varys heard in the flames all those years ago, that's why he was so confused and afraid whenever someone mentioned it, because, as Daenerys' supporter and Ally it didn't make any sense to him at the time, and why none of us were told because saying it out loud would have been a MAJOR Varys' death spoiler.) What I appreciate most about this last season is that the only, "theory," that has been proven true is that EVERYONE'S theories have been proven WRONG hahaha and that makes it ALL worth it to me!

[@Veltree]

TWSTF 8 Thank you for saying this. I’m so tired of reading every persons comments about their misplaced disappointment. It’s like everyone is TRYING to be angry and upset and picking every little detail apart instead of just enjoying the same show we’ve loved for years.

[@twstf8905]

@rafael cruz And yet not ONE of them can articulate a coherent argument with any actual evidence that even RESEMBLES meaningful!

[@twstf8905]

@@Veltree Word 👍

[@austynlove5874]

jaime was so addicted to cersei. and what do addicts do? they go back

[@yasolivia8177]

Honestly game of thrones season 8 is so disappointing that at this point I am way more exited for nerd soups reviews of the season

[@amhk5918]

I 100% agree and I'm sad that I do

[@wesnnicole010]

💯. I am so sad. Waited so long for this season and it’s been so underwhelming

[@WizardD.King17]

Yo samee

[@jordylyons4648]

I’m not in disagreement all I hear from fellow fans, the character development in the turn was so disappointing

[@yasolivia8177]

Australiantatious I totally agree I think coz people don’t like the writing this season they just completely write off the episodes but the people who actually made them deserve recognition coz visually the show looks amazing. And I like the episodes when they are on it’s just after this episode especially I looked back and I was so pissed about Jamie and cerise’s death. And I have really tried to support this season coz I love the show sm and I hate hearing other people hate on it.

[@michaelhuh8397]

Episode 3 was controversial. Episode 4 was divisive. Episode 5 was... oof.

[@RobertHDaGod]

I forget which of the 1000 videos I’ve watched said this but one simple edit fixes the mad queen turn. Don’t kill her dragon in Ep4. Use both in the war. After bells ring have a random bolt kill her second dragon. Then she snaps.

[@daviddarko2665]

And we still haven't learned what "the voice from the flames" said to Varys when his manhood was cut off.

[@ZARAGOLD]

Dracarys!!!

[@badgasaurus4211]

Arya was the prince that was promised!!!!!

[@MistahJay7]

SUBVERTING EXPECTATIONS!

[@itsmetimohthy]

While Varys kind of forgot what the voice said.

[@sideshow8o872]

would be awesome if GRRM dropped the books on us really fast.

[@thyCarrot]

Im pretty sure the ending points could be similar. Knowing how Martin was heavily inspired by Tolkien, I do not think he would risk his books being "butchered" in the most famous TV show of all time, similar to how the Tolkien family reacted to LotR and Hobbit movies. Seems like D&D really wanted this to end fast and be over with it. 10 episodes every season would have made this season more impactful as the build up would have made sense.

[@factbeaglesarebest]

He probably wanted to wait for the season to end. The books done, it’s been in the editorial state for years. His manuscripts are like 2500 pages. He has to get it down to 1000

[@factbeaglesarebest]

Ded channel Martin stopped working with the show several seasons ago. He’s inspired by history and realism far more than Tolkien. He doesn’t like whaybD n D did. He’s subtly made it clear.

[@GJBedrin]

Martin killed the show more than anyone by not finishing the books. Losing source material halfway through a show is a surefire way to bone the writers

[@couchieplay3668]

Just burn the surrendering soldiers and Cercei. Even that is extreme and would have been mad queenish while maintaining believably. This jumped the shark, came back for the shark on a dragon and carried that shark to the moon.

[@andyholland2130]

The way I view it is Daenerys sees everyone in Kingslanding as the enemy. One "supporting" Cersei over her, and even though it's not the same people obviously but turns on her family the last time the city was sacked and killed all of them and lead to her and her brothers exile.

[@avengercannon]

Late to the party but Tywin was the last person to sack the city, those Lannister soldiers came through raping and kicking in doors and killing folks like 18 years before the episode.

[@breedingpitmetal]

I really, REALLY appreciate you guys trying to keep things positive as long as possible but I also appreciate your honesty now

[@robertwright4906]

My thoughts are Dany made complete sense. The point is they won yet she STILL BURNS THEM. The reason is Dany isnt good, only in circumstances where shes surrounded by people who love and adore her and make her feel special that she acts good. She does good not for the people, but for herself, to get praise and be loved. She never changed, shes always been like this, and thats why her snap makes sense. Her snapping was bitterness and anger, anger not just At cersei, but also at the people. She knew theyd hate her instead of loving her for “liberating them”, so she punishes them. If you look closely, you see this in her for all 8 seasons, and this is what Ive always thought of her. Shes an opportunist.

[@tenyacatchme3991]

Robert Wright So she took down the thousands of child slaves and crucified the masters for herself? Instead of burning Yonkai to the ground she released the slaves and gave them power had them free themselves.....for herself? Freed all the unsullied when she couldve just took the ships for herself.....? Re opened the fighting pits even when she herself hated them.....for herself?

[@nericohen-muaythai8875]

I'm at the point where I'm more excited about a nerd soup video than a got episode

[@jenniferpacker1900]

I don't want to agree,but I have to.

[@angelasepulveda2488]

Definitely agree

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

I've been waiting for them to realize the show sucks a long time

[@ricardokrittsquad2386]

Why they loved all the trash and just echo chambered each other till ep 5? If you dont like the way the shows turning point how can you enjoy them being ignorant n toting how great it was

[@Yumf90]

It makes sense to me. People snap and go on killing sprees for far less. She had no one to talk her down this time. All the signs were there. Not eating, isolating, calm demeanor after all her sudden losses.

[@drlarrymitchell]

Season 8: when you absolutely, positively want make sure you've screwed the pooch.

[@acemstudio]

Here's how you make the massacre a LITTLE more justified: *While the bells tolled, Daenerys flew for the Red Keep. She can't find Cersei and has Drogon circle the Keep. What she didn't know was that Cersei had already left to go underground. Daenerys becomes **_infuriated_** and destroys her ancestral seat of power. Without saying a word, as if her and Drogon are one being, one soul, they turn their sights on the city. And in her rage destroys what she was trying to simply conquer. She became her fathers daughter.*

[@tingtingin]

Gotta love dany strategically asking D & D to write in the Iron fleet forgetting how to aim scorpions STR🅰️TEGIC🅰️LLY!

[@jettrodgers7821]

Season 2 Dany - “I will take back my family’s throne with fire and blood” Us - “yas queen” Season 8 Dany - takes the iron throne with fire and blood Us - omg no

[@gtrslinger]

Anyone who says “yas Queen” .... fuck you

[@atanaspopovski7236]

Ye, problem is she killed everyone after she had already won.

[@dominick253]

Yeah but she burnt her throne and killed her followers... Can't be the queen of ashes...

[@milesdyczok7801]

You didn't see it cause Danny didn't make the decision on Dragonback looking over the city. She made it at the beginning of the episode. "Let it be fear then". Does no one pay attention?

[@wisdommanari6701]

Oh yes 1 line in 1 ep makes total sense.....oh wait no still bad writing

[@2Dailight]

Was just about to write this...She decided that because, as she said, "No one loves me here, they only fear me"...Like, hello?

[@made-line7627]

I don't think it's ADHD, I think it's OCD. She was clearly suffering from extreme obsessive compulsions driving her to zigzag back and forth over the city, never missing an alley, and turning back when she missed a spot.

[@paradox5391]

Monkey man descending slowly into madness, blue dude having lost all hope.... finally they're one of us, one of us, one of us. Final nail in the coffin will be the disaster of an ending on Sunday. The leaks have all been true. Shitshow.

[@mariyamkhandwani]

Paradox which leaks ??? I want to go watch them after Sunday

[@Raphael_art]

I feel like im the only one who liked the episode :) I mean, i get everyone who didnt buy that chain of events, but i still think the writing was on the wall. Through the show she was'nt only trying to go back home, she was obsesed with the throne. Instead of being happy to find another family member (John/ Aegon), in state where no other family member left, she was terrified of him risking her claim to the throne. The way she bagged John, didnt feel healthy. And i went back to see some scenes from previous seasons, she claimed she would burn cities to the ground. Maybe she had good intentions but she was kind of blind by her purpose she belived she was born to achive and her 'destiny'. Sorry, i was just always worried about that character and thought the danger might come. Btw, Love Emilia's acting last episode! Epic. Beside that, i do agree the season as a whole suffer from rushed writing.

[@theatequila7367]

I don't get why everyone is so shocked at Jaime's arc reverting. Has no one been or known someone in a shitty crazy relationship and finally get away just to be triggered by something and go right back to them? It's not as if Jaime left Cersei because he stopped loving her. He was forcing himself out of it but the thought of her death made him run back. It's very human and real.

[@RyderMCG]

Actually no its dumb and retarded writing since jaime was redeemed by going to the north and even if he returned cercei was just eh fine who cares. If inconsistent characters are your cup of tea then i dont know what to say...

[@samanthavelarde4688]

I couldn’t agree more with your take on this episode. Visually, it was a masterpiece. Acting was superb. But the writing.. that’s where it lost me. It was difficult for me to take in Daenerys as Mad Queen, only because they didn’t develop it enough for me to buy into it. Cersei and Jamie’s death was tragically underwhelming based off of everything we’ve seen of the characters up to this point. I would’ve loved to see Cersei go out as a badass rather than the death they gave us. And Euron... so unnecessary. I see what they tried to do with this episode, but the execution of it was just not there. Had this been a 10 episode season with the same end result in mind, it would’ve unfolded so beautifully.

[@last7509]

they developed it for 8 years lol. the issue people are having is they were thinking Dany was Aragorn and she isnt. She has always been a sociopathic murderer. this show aint about heroic endings. its about humans worst traits.

[@mjisurdad]

Both 7 & 8 should of been 10 episodes. First 3 episodes this season should of been with last season and this one get its own 10 episodes.

[@samanthavelarde4688]

Fortune Mak3r in my original comment I said I see where they were trying to go with her being mad queen. That’s not the issue I have with the episode or direction of the show. Where it went wrong was the build up to that. That’s why it’s difficult for me to buy Mad Queen Dany, that’s why it’s difficult for the majority to buy Mad Queen Dany.

[@samanthavelarde4688]

Clip That Shit I totally agree with you on that

[@last7509]

@@samanthavelarde4688 My friend, normal people do not burn even ONE person alive. If the leader of your country did that once you would run out of the country. People dont wanna BUY it because as fans of this genre we had a preconceived expectation of her. This is NOT that type of story. I dare say this is a NEW genre all its own.

[@flisen1000]

I dont think Dany snapped. I think she knows Westeros is always gonna love Jon more than her and that the secret that he is the rightful heir is gonna be known fact among the kingdoms. Her only way to rule is that she is so feared no one would oppose her and she knows it. ''Let it be fear then'' She gets feared and becomes the ruler by burning everything so that she can be good to future generations. This is how she thinks.. she was probably praying for those bells not to ring because it would make what she needed to do much tougher

[@tashaballard116]

Great point. I think we are all trying over analyze this episode. Dany is what she is at this point...Been heading that way since day one... She is the Breaker of Chains and she makes the revenge factor personal....I think it was great and don't feel sorry for Cersei...she deserves what she got...May not be dead though. Bet she comes back next episode.

[@cavalierdecoupe]

Great point!!!

[@BH-ix7nq]

I still love how no one is blaming Jon at all for any of this. It's literally all his fault lol

[@sicily7220]

Bran wakes up as 10 year old; tells his father Ned he had a crazy dream and.Raven flys in and starts to crow. Screen goes to blank for 30 seconds; returns ending credits with dark soft music.

[@justinew.8219]

It's the Sopranos all over again

[@Darylanna]

All of the known world is in the eye of a blue-eyed giant named Macumber. The intro has changed and it looks like the inside of a globe...the sea appears to be above the land. Also, the center of the light at the beginning looks like an iris. The characters are bacteria and the show will end when Macumber goes to the doctor, gets eyedrops, and drowns them all.

[@cterrance189]

Justine W. But the sopranos ending made sense if you paid attention to the symbols throughout the series

[@justinew.8219]

Tbh, I've never watched it, I just know a lot of people where not happy with that ending how it just went to black.

[@benster62]

Always the best Game Of Thrones content, well spoken and thought out arguments and opinions

[@AlexanderRodriguez-lm1qw]

Benjamin Smith word dude. I love these guys

[@derekstein1444]

Except Aaron. Dude is a fanboy lol. Still love NerdSoup but sheesh dude is in denial

[@selmarubio7951]

I think if you look at it from a psychological perspective, what Dany did definitely could happen. One, she grew up in a immensely unstable environment. She had no parents, and knew someone was always trying to murder her. Her older brother was abusive to her, beating her and who knows what else. As a child, this is formative. Just considering this alone, it makes for an potentially unstable adult. She said one thing in Season 6 that was interesting: when she broke it off with Dario Naharis she says to Tyrion, I said goodbye to a man who loves me and I felt nothing. Dany said that scared her more than anything. Lots of people live normal lives, more or less; then one day they snap. For instance, look at many mass shooters or people who kill their families, their children. Because Dany was a ruler-type with so much power, she was especially dangerous if she snapped. You could see she had narcissistic tendencies. When the people of Maureen lifted her up on their shoulders? She went with it, she loved it. Ultimately, THAT is what she was after, adoration. And she was not shy about admitting it. She believes she is all knowing and all powerful. If she has weaknesses, she doesn’t admit it often, she blames everyone else around her. You see the difference between her and John. I think she was acting like she cared so people would like her. People say they can’t see how she could do this and that it was rushed, but if you look at the clues closely, it was there, brimming under the surface. Again, it goes back to seeing people how we want them to be instead of how they really are. It’s how so many child molesters get away with hurting children for so long.

[@mjisurdad]

Elizabeth Varela is that your real name? If I ever get charged with genocide I want you for a lawyer.

[@kdkseven]

People got too invested in how THEY thought it should end. To have problems with the episodes is normal. To *hate* it is irrational.

[@TheEowyn22]

kdkseven Plus, now it’s edgy to say you hate it. Even most nerds follow their herd.

[@willkim9550]

“And I accept your surrender” damsey tolton

[@daimonik6255]

''and I accept your surrender'' Ramsey bolton hahah who's damsey?

[@badgasaurus4211]

Daimonik 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@daimonik6255]

@@badgasaurus4211 oh HAHAHAH is it Because she a waaaaamen!!!

[@badgasaurus4211]

Daimonik No. Ramsay Bolton -+ Daenerys Targaryen = damsey tolton

[@kerrychristensen7204]

@@badgasaurus4211 ...Dansey, more like. 🤷

[@iloveyourunclebob]

The music in the end scene of season 7 episode 7 and the Dothraki charging in this episode are the only two times I have been taken out of the episode and put back into my living room. I actually laughed out loud when I saw how many of them there were.

[@NeverNedDead]

hahah yeah that was just stupid

[@godspeed2272]

Here's a very easy fix, Dany destroys the Red Keep and flies down, walking through the throne room giving us the House of the Undying vision scene, she finds a living person idc who and asks "where is the body of Cersei Lannister" and they say they saw her escaping through a tunnel she could be anywhere in the city so then she decides she'll burn the whole city

[@viksaggu9085]

Godspeed or they win, and they cheer for Jon as the King of the North, Danny gets no recognition. Then Danny just gets pissed.

[@ickes2255]

I can't see Jon taking the throne after this. First off he probably wont trust his targaryen genetics in case he turns crazy some day. Also the Targaryen name will now be ruined for hundreds of years. No one will ever allow a targaryen to have power ever again. I see john pushing for Sansa to have the throne and unite the kingdom. And the Starks will hold the kingdom together peacefully for 300 years until inbreeding turns them all mad.

[@pinkanamay]

I can see Jon not liking his Targaryen side but I don't think hes worried he'll go crazy. Hes come this far, he trusts himself. But you know what, you make a good point. Cuz during the episode, I thought he'd want to rule on the throne because of Dany's QUICK (and unnecessary) decisions.

[@pinkanamay]

Btw i don't think he'll inbreed. Thats a big factor of why he wont be with Dany.

[@SpruceZT]

Jon wasn't born out of incest so I doubt he'll ever go crazy. Although I don't know how genetics work, like how having a dad born out of incest affects your genes or whatever.

[@ickes2255]

@@SpruceZT i think the way genetics works is if you hear bells ringing you become a genocidal maniac.

[@conniehoffman149]

Harrenhal was a fortress. Tywin said that a million men could have charged it and a million men would have died. It was obviously much more sturdy and strong that normal buildings.

[@madsniperD]

The problem with arguing that Dany going mad doesn't need to be understandable -because madness isn't logical- is that ASOIAF's whole deal is getting us to empathize with characters that commit horrible acts. Almost everyone in this fandom learns to love Jamie, who pushes a child out a window. People are gray, that's a huge theme in GRRM's story. Something like moving Rhaegal's death to after the surrender bells would have been just enough for us to buy her descent while not supporting it.