Game Theory Rejected My Sonic Timeline

[@ComicDrake]

The amount of people who completely missed me explicitly saying that this timeline only goes to 2016 is baffling. I literally don't know how I could have made that more clear. 😂

[@jonbrewer297]

I just like how Thawnic is now something everyone agrees is a thing. IT WAS ME KNUCKLES!

[@arechikitsune]

Maybe make a part 2 of the timeline?

[@vicentesolano6419]

Even if it only goes up to 2016, Forces has wisps from both Sonic Colors (Wii and DS) and Sonic Lost World (Wii U and 3DS) meaning that they are canon as well at the same time. Another example is TSR. Its canon since Sonic Drift is in the timeline. In one of the tracks, we can see that the wisp mother appears, but she's only available in DS Colors, so it also means it is canon. I love the two timelines idea, but it think its more for Classic and Modern.

[@Flamne]

@sk Aka Earth, Earth is Sonic's planet

[@patathatapon]

I can't believe you didn't include Sonic Dreams remastered 2024 edition. How could you, tsk tsk tsk.

[@harshal1153]

Could you imagine how crazy this would be if he made the script after Mania and Forces

[@isin4b]

Sounds like a challenge to me

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

Not crazy enough, I can imagine. In my opinion, sonic has two pasts but only one future, because the events of Generations were actually Genesis Sonic merging realities back together with SEGASonic, who is also Mania sonic. The timeline being eaten by Time Eater had resulted from a grandfather paradox by the future creation of the 06 time machine, which caused sonic's world to encroach into the spacetime of Blaze's world. This can be depicted on a graph, as entering a loop-de-loop where the timeline turns to go backwards during the duration that sonic's world replaces Blaze's world, and that loop is where the SEGASonic, Game Gear and pontac/graff stuff all happens, and GUN doesn't exist. Also the loop-de-loop is the replacement of the future with Iblis, but created from the mass stolen from Blaze's world. This isn't based on "many worlds" theory but more the conservation of mass theory, so blowing out the Flame of Iblis is truly the creation of that callback timeline, like Mania's fanservice. In Generations cutscenes, you can see how Shadow and Silver are added back into the timeline so they can appear in Forces despite not being there in the opening cutscene. This is because we follow ONLY Mania Sonic (grown up) in the beginning, but BOTH Sonics fused as the younger Mania Sonic goes back in time. After that they talk as Modern Sonic/Genesis Sonic in Forces, correcting the the discrepancy what dimension Classic Sonic comes from. "Same" AND "different" are correct. Blaze then has her own wacky timeline where she meets both Classic and Modern Sonics at different ages without fully realizing they're not the same, until her seemingly final appearance (by her timeline) where she actually plots to delete the "false" Sonic in Sonic 06, attempting to PREVENT destruction of HIS timeline. There's some pretty careful retconning of her ACTUAL lines, by me, to make it all fit, but it does play pretty nicely. Ultimately she doesn't have the heart to, in her understanding, delete the future of poor naive Silver, by Silver's own hand. That's the meaning of Blaze's ending in 06, trying to get that burden taken off of her shoulders, but ending up sacrificing herself. Where she goes from there, well, I have strands of plot left to connect with future games or my own fanfics.

[@UltravioletNomad]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 And now she drives a race car in a pocket dimension made by a tanuki car salesman.

[@TOG285]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 that's the most complicated thing i've heard in ages Love it

[@gregzotter6189]

Yeah! Where are they? This was made in 2022; Forces and Mania were released in 2017.

[@theperfectpixl]

I had thought of a timeline split being a factor in the timeline due to the events of Generations and the fact that Mania seemingly takes place at the same time as Sonic 4, but I hadn't even considered that Little Planet's time travel could cause one as well. That is a really interesting idea.

[@fxailing1201]

How do you know it takes place at the same time as sonic 4?

[@glitchx0861]

@@fxailing1201 Because sonic tails and knuckles all know each other and sonic aand knuckles arent enemies so you could easily assume it takes place after sonic 3&k. The sonic 4 series of games also take place after sonic 3&k so while we dont know if the time they both take place in is around the same amount of time away from s3k we do know that they both take place after.

[@flamingoodness4923]

This theory honestly does make sense of the whole “another dimension” deal with classic sonic, but only slightly, since sonic still says “it’s been generations since I’ve seen you!” Which implies classic sonic we knew of before is from the same timeline, just in the past. Or maybe both classic Sonics were same, just before and after the time split? Honestly who knows. I’d love for sega to make an official timeline for the games at some point

[@eliseburton3809]

@@flamingoodness4923 no mania sonic is from a different timeline and I'm pretty sure the different dimension thing is a translation. Error

[@sonerec725]

@@flamingoodness4923 classic sonic tails, and eggman getting scooped up into the fray of generations created a split timeline when they returned , making them from another reality (often misidentified as "another dimension" as scifi often does).

[@gekozilla7339]

3:44 for those curious. Ken Penders used to work for the archie comics sonic series. During said time he created over 200 characters. Years later after the lost brotherhood came out he sued saying Shade the echidna was too similar to one of his characters... that he created for sega. During the lawsyit sega trusted archie could handle it but turns out Kenders' contract was missing and may (or may not) have been stolen by him. So Sega cant use any echidna or characters from archie such as Scourge and Geoffry st. Johns (who was penders oc insert) because Kenders may end up suing. This is only the tip of the iceberg of Ken penders bullshit however.

[@AmbushBug522]

How much evidence is there that points to him stealing his own contract? I haven’t heard of that until now, and if that’s true then he should probably be in jail right?

[@Silverizael]

@@AmbushBug522 You'd have to prove he did it first. And the whole point is that, since he stole it, there's no evidence of where his contract is.

[@capnkaba]

@@AmbushBug522 there isn’t much evidence, but asking the questions, “Why would a company lose a contract?” (They likely wouldn’t unless they went out of business) and “Why would someone steal their own contract?” (They got fired from a job they liked, and it would make it difficult to get their characters back), it’s obvious that he stole it. The only reason that he can’t be criminally charged is because the American criminal justice system doesn’t run on critical thinking (even though it would *really* help if it did slightly).

[@amesstarline5482]

Actually, Sega just can't use the Nocturnus Clan. If anything, I think this helped the comics become more creative in combining details- it's possible a mix of the Worlds Unite and Archie's own wants to be for YA audiences that shut down the comic. Do I prefer the reboot's world over IDW? Yes. But both IDW and Reboot Archie embrace the games.

[@isaacargesmith8217]

@@amesstarline5482 No, archie cannot use ken pender's charcters without licensing and paying to do so according to him and sega has referenced the Nocturnus before in other media like the encyclospeedia. If they couldnt use them in anything it stands to reason they wouldnt have used them in that. They most likely dont use them not becaues of legal obligation but because of the legal mess they caused as well as the fact they were from a bioware collaboration game that sold horribly, reviewed horribly, came out during a period that sonic had a lot of less well remembered games, and because bioware has since been bought up by EA. They're most likely not canon because of how much of a mess it'd be to keep them canon for how little that'd benefit the series. They have nbo reason to revisit anything from that game ESPECIALLY with that cliff hanger.

[@brainiacfortnite5523]

When they said "Everything is canon" that, as you demonstrated, doesn't mean one timeline. Sonic is established as a multiverse traveller in quite a few games.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Does that mean Sonic.exe is canon? 😂

[@jakeob-walket]

​@@comixproviderftw_02 Yes and No, the sonic twitter sonic.exe is canon, not creepypasta.

[@GriffintheBased]

Yup, Canon ≠ Continuity. It all exists in a multiverse somewhere.

[@Syiepherze]

And wouldn't you know it, the Sonic Netflix series follows up on that idea lol

[@brainiacfortnite5523]

@@Syiepherze Netflix series?

[@SaturnSZN]

I always felt like CD would take place in between Sonic 1 & 2 because during that time there was no appearance of Tails, showing that Sonic was still a loner, and the spindash in that game is different to Sonic 2, almost like he’s practicing it.

[@fawkesthefox912]

Yes! This guy gets it!

[@shupasopni]

@@fawkesthefox912 And the Death Egg story goes 1 game to the next with no breaks (not including later DEs the one from Fighters and Forces).

[@SOSTeraDrive]

The beginning of Sonic 3 shows that it’s a DIRECT SEQUEL TO SONIC 2. No way Sonic CD can fit between Sonic 2 and 3.

[@rjd-kh8et]

That's actually what designer Yasushi Yamaguchi said in an interview (besides the Spin Dash thing).

[@SpockvsEgon]

That and his sprites more closely resemble the Sonic from the first game.

[@LeafRazorStorm]

I thought it was common knowledge that Sonic 3 takes place VERY shortly after Sonic 2, with the Death Egg being destroyed and plummeting into Angel Island. Hard to imagine any game could take place in between them.

[@DOIL00KLIKEN0W]

True

[@OsartDamian]

Yes, for this reason I put sonic CD after Sonic 3&K somewhere between Sonic Adventure

[@OsartDamian]

Also, in Sonic 2 the Death Egg fall in Angel Island, if this is the case, is imposible to Sonic have adventures with Eggman like Sonic CD or Sonic Chaos because Eggman just forget the death egg and then he want to fix because yeah, don't have any sense

[@nahuelgioia4177]

As someone that has been watching since your days in the Game Theory channel, this really was a throwback! Great video!

[@JmMateo933]

Cool

[@mintycups]

small problem with your timeline, somewhere in sonic unleashed amy tells sonic they're going on a date after they save the world and in black knight in the post credits amy gets mad at him for forgetting their date, black knight should be AFTER unleashed and not before. this is incredibly small and so far my only problem with the timeline

[@Diamonddeath]

There could have been more than one date.

[@amazingfantasy1962]

@@Diamonddeath i could of sworn I've seen you somewhere

[@joetheawesome]

But they do take place after.

[@mexikann6248]

He did put them after Unleashed on his timeline.

[@Diamonddeath]

@@amazingfantasy1962 Oh? Where?

[@juliewinchester1488]

Honestly, it's disappointing that this was rejected by Game Theory, cause this is the exact kinda video I want from them on the topic of Sonic. ^^; Now that the Sonic 2 Movie is coming out, can't wait for theory 4 or 5 on Sonic's speed. Ooo, maybe he'll talk about how strong Knuckles is or give a second video to Tails' flight. You know, rather than covering anything actually interesting about Sonic. -3-

[@TwentyGX]

I’d always assumed there was a timeline split due to CD, but you pointing out that the majority of games are actually from the Bad Future timeline just blew my mind. Not sure how I’d never noticed that before.

[@SmashBracket]

When you think about it, the true sonic timeline is the friends we made along the way

[@pikahetti]

oh hi smash bracket, it's the power of friendship we made

[@Gemnist98]

Oh Lord, that statement has never been more accurate.

[@WarmLillie]

I’m glad to you have some gaming fun and talking about other passions. I love a good timeline. Also thank you for entertaining and I’ll taking inspiration from this. Hmm, I’m taking note of this because I have timeline inconsistency myself because I without knowing split and now combining all my variants back together. Strange Supreme Style abit. Wish me luck and Happy April Fools Day.

[@SisterRose]

I really disagree with the split timeline coming from Sonic CD. It seems like the time periods are limited to Little Planet itself, as at the start of the game we see what looks to be the bad future version, but when he gets there it's the "present". It's tempting to create a split timeline Ocarina style here, but IMO they already did it more plainly with Generations/Mania/Forces. It might make more sense for some of the games - particularly the 8 bit ones - to have occurred in the Mania Universe after Generations.

[@matti.8465]

Yeah, I always had the headcanon that all the time travel in CD affects Little Planet and ONLY Little Planet. The Time Stones probably have something to do with it.

[@JaredtheRabbit]

I agree. I say the split happens after Adventure.

[@shrapt3528]

I feel like the time stones and sonics time travel affects the entire of mobius. Also why would eggman go to little planet for the timestones if it only affected little planet? He clearly goes for them because they can alter time for himself. So I don't think it would make sense for the bad future timeline to not have everything robotised and be normal. Yes I'm aware in generations and sonic 4, stardust speedway is shown for a bad future but I feel like it wouldn't convey a boss as well in generations and sonic 4 is weird tbh I don't really have an explanation.

[@AdenHailemariam]

“Encyclospeedia” is a top-tier word.

[@massimodalessandro108]

I remember loving your videos on the Game Theory channel and I continued to follow you thanks to the MCU making me very very curious about Comic Book lore and origins, but as a big all time Sonic fan this was super enjoyable to watch and I'm really happy you defied the KZbin algorithm by making a video about a videogame series you're passionate about!

[@hypermalware1364]

Commenting 44 minutes prior to premiere, no shot GT rejected it

[@TetraSky]

April's Fool, yeah.

[@Bardock267]

One thing about 06 tho, most of the events of that game end up being erased from the timeline already when Elise blows out the flame of Solaris, so only the festival and Sonic passing by really happened in there while I imagine some bits of memories of the events of the game still stick within everyone's minds and exist as a possible alternate future as shown in Generations. I feel like there's some kinda event that we just haven't seen with Blaze that causes her to be sent to the future. Not only that, while 06 did supposedly retcon Blaze to be from the future, that's the only time she's been from the future, all other subsequent appearances label her being from the Sol Dimension, even Generations, despite being present in Crisis City and having some reawoken memories of the events of 06. On the same token, Eggman Nega has been consistently stated to be from the future from Rivals onward, even with the Rush Adventure and Colors DS existing. CD tho, I always thought that took place either after 3&K and before 4 (and now Mania) or post Sonic 1 and before Sonic 2. I'd be weird if Eggman just left the Death Egg alone on Angel Island after it crashed to pursue the Time Stones on Little Planet only to suddenly remember it and dial back to launch it again. Still, I can see a fair bit of this version of the timeline working fairly nicely, and does a nice job explaining the differences of the handheld versions of various entires.

[@blazeneko3384]

also doesn't the Japanese manual say that Eggman crashed with the Death Egg and that's how he met Knuckles? I know that Knuckles went too the Death Egg as soon as it crashed and met Eggman so it would have to be right after the 2nd game

[@Bardock267]

@@blazeneko3384 I believe so. Even the game itself pretty much confirms it given that usually we see Eggman eject or get sent flying from his robots, which he doesn't at the end of the Death Egg Robot boss. IIRC, the iOS remasters of S1&2 by Christian Whitehead also confirm this with the good ending shot being Eggman stomping on the ground near a bush that has Knux peeking out from it akin to the S3 US boxart.

[@shupasopni]

As far as an event that explains Blaze, I believe the answer is actually hidden in the (admittedly non canon but hear me out), IDW Sonic comics. In IDW they mention the little known (100% canon) fact that Blaze can use the Sol Emeralds to travel back and forth between her and Sonic's dimensions after SRA, and in the comic she did so when the emeralds told her Sonic's world was in trouble. I believe she said they actually did something similar in Colors DS. In IDW the trouble she was going to deal with was implied to be the recent events of Forces which IDW piggybacks off of, however she is incredibly late (iirc even just Sonic's prison sentence in Forces was a full year). Admittedly its a long shot but it's possible the Sol Emeralds sent Blaze to Sonic's world sensing the Solaris troubles were brewing, but actually sent her at the wrong time again, 200 years in the future of Sonic's world. But that's my theory. Fun facts: both the dimension hopping Blaze can now do with the SEs and the lil known trivia that the reason the Wisps stick around on Sonic's world is because they are thankful to Sonic for his help are brought up in IDW. Both are obscure canon facts only brought up in Sonic phone games IIRC (I believe Sonic Runners).

[@Bardock267]

@@shupasopni That's actually rather close to my theory on what happens. Tho for me, I was thinking that it was thanks to the Eggmen tampering with the SE that flung her into the future, tying into how Blaze mentions the SE vanishing due to "that mustached old man". Maybe in Eggman's failure to capture Elise, his next idea was going to the Sol Dimension and harnessing the SE powers? Then once the timeline reset with the Flame of Solaris blown out, Blaze might have been able to prevent that from happening with the vauge memories of what happened, or at least avert it enough to where the SE just scattered across Sonic's world a short time after he went to Soleanna. Then again, I'm just kinda imagining it as a cool dream opening cutscene to a game or comic version of events between the games.

[@RichDXtreme247]

Well, considering this was all made in 2016, I have a problem with the placement of Tails’ Adventure because it doesn’t make sense for Tails’ character. Cause in Sonic 2, it was stated that he looked up to Sonic for inspiration and became a fellow partner to him and until Sonic Adventure is where he first started to become his own hero without Sonic by facing off against Eggman. With Tails’ Adventure, it would strip all that away and say, “Tails is already a hero long before meeting Sonic without gaining that inspiration and all that bullying he had prior that meeting meant nothing”.

[@גוהטנקס]

I came here with a good knowledge of which Sonic game is after which, came out more confused than ever.

[@odd-eyes6363]

The time travel in Sonic CD is exclusive to Little Planet. The boss fight with Metal Sonic taking place in the Bad Future only establishes that canonically Sonic saved Little Planet by collecting the Time Stones instead of individually making a good future on each act and zone. The only thing that changes with the Bad Future is that Eggman's machines keep Little Planet stuck above Never Lake, the whole point of that adventure is Little Planet's future, there can't be a timeline split if we know there's a canonical ending and the non canonical one does not change anything.

[@umbrella3235]

3:43 Hurray! More videos on the oddly specific topic of comic lawsuits!

[@Traves.official]

This was a really fun video! If you put out more videos like this, about topics you’re interested in outside of the comics industry, I would gladly watch them.

[@mariahedelund1116]

cheese cake

[@i-kon3153]

Same

[@cottoneyedmoe3922]

Relatable

[@nokopanda4642]

🍰

[@usaproductions3178]

What

[@CroveFN]

No need to get so political

[@morrigansbestcrow]

This was incredible and I personally feel your videos where you let your passion flow are always your best. I hope you can find excuses to diversify if it brings you joy(but based on a recent TikTok of yours I'm betting you want to compartmentalize what feels like work) but just stay great and stay yourself. You're entertaining as hell

[@LostHeadStudios]

Not sure if you heard Drake, but IDW comics are apparently now canon to the games universe. The newest game makes reference to a comic character.

[@toastynachoos]

This was actually a good April fool's day video!

[@SkylightCiel]

Honestly pretty darn Nostalgic hearing Comic Drake talk about video games. Brings me back to the good old days of Game Theory

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Screw the MCU and their multiverse stuff, where’s our big crossover with the three Sonics? With SAT AM Sonic (Jaleel White), Sonic X (Jason Griffith) and Modern Sonic (Roger Craig Smith).

[@kingofthebis1068]

Only Jaleel is really distinct enough from the others

[@umbrella3235]

Why not throw in Movie Sonic too?

[@comixproviderftw_02]

@@umbrella3235 I’m going by the Sonic’s that are majority of fans considering THEIR Sonic, depending on when they were born that is. For three generations, those are the Sonics that people have grown up with. Movie Sonic is still relatively new with just two movies, it’s gonna be a while for kids to grow up with that Sonic.

[@shrapt3528]

@@comixproviderftw_02 What about Ryan Drummond?

[@comixproviderftw_02]

@@shrapt3528 If Jaleel can’t make it, then I’ll put Ryan in

[@irishuisman1450]

Much as I enjoy this theory, there's quite a few inconsistencies and errors. First off, it's Iblis, not Ilbis. And the way the timeline in 06 got reset wasn't by Blaze seemingly dying, but by Elise blowing out the flame that would become Solaris. - It's been officially confirmed that CD takes place before Sonic 2. Yes, I get that that messes with the placement of the Sonic robots, but an easy explanation for that is that Eggman built the Silver Sonic/Mecha Sonic MK. 1 to guard the Death Egg as a prototype of Metal Sonic (or was built in a hurry after Metal lost) and was only used by Eggman because he didn't have a better Sonic robot anymore after Metal was lost when Little Planet disappeared. - Sonic 2, 3, &Knuckles are one continuous story. The Death Egg crashes into Angel Island, prompting Sonic (still with the Chaos Emeralds in tow, as shown in the opening cutscene) and Tails to investigate. - having previous adventures doesn't necessarily mean having previous games. If Segasonic really did happen before Sonic 1, then why wouldn't Mighty and Ray stick around to help Sonic in Sonic 1? It's very possible that Sonic and Eggman did have previous encounters, but that those encounters weren't shown. Eggman specifically captured Sonic in Segasonic, but in Sonic 1 all he did was try to hinder Sonic from getting to the end of the game. Why wouldn't he put more effort in if he specifically knew how capable Sonic was? - the storybook games don't lead directly into eachother. In fact, the implication is that Black Knight takes place shortly after Unleashed due to Amy claiming she and Sonic had a date, which is legitimately a thing you can make happen in Unleashed. Secret Rings on the other hand was made alongside '06 and isn't as clear on the placement, but I think it'd be safe to say that at the very least Unleashed takes place between the games. Sonic being casual about it when comparing it to Whitespace doesn't have to mean it took place recently, just that he considers it one of his weirder adventures. - and lastly, there's quite a few games that are implied to be canon that you didn't include. I'm not gonna list them all bc I'm typing on my phone and frankly can't really be bothered, but you missed 3D Blast, for instance (which, yes, is a different game than Blast, the localization team didn't really do a great job differentiating Sonic 3D and G-Sonic (which are their Japanese names)). The4thSnake made a Sonic timeline a few years ago, where he also went in-depth on things like what '06's full actual story is and even things like Sonic's age. Turns out that '06 adds like 10 extra timelines to the mix, but it's decently understandable at least xD For the record, there's also a few errors in his video (I prefer the theory that Blaze was in '06 first and then went to Rush over Blaze being in Rush first), but he also made an effort to include every game that isn't explicitly non-canon.

[@BadringerGronger]

14:45 you got balls to say that

[@tracythomas4700]

Glad to see this one finally come out after years of you having it made.

[@ligtningdog6399]

Great job Drake. Too bad almost EVERYTHING was ruined because of Sonic Forces/Sonic Mania retconning Generations.

[@TheAxmore]

as someone who is unaware. How do Forces/Mania retcon generations?

[@ligtningdog6399]

​@@TheAxmore In Forces, both Tails and Modern Sonic stated Mania/Classic Sonic is from another dimension, also stating that is the second time they meant. It's also been officially confirmed by Sonic Team that anything starring Classic Sonic has nothing to do with Modern version; and that Mania is the "true" sequel to Sonic 3&K.

[@TheAxmore]

@@ligtningdog6399 huh interesting. I'd willfully ignore the Forces bit because everything about that game is hot trash but the bit of mania info does still seal the deal

[@Aranesque]

I loved your work already, but you being a Sonic Fan just made me like your channel 10 times more. This timeline was VERY consistent. Specially after bringing up Stardust Speedway as a pivotal point for this. Really cool explanation! Btw Drake, any chance you talk about IDW Sonic comics on your channel? I think that Flynn's writing is really good for the franchise, it would be cool if you could share what you think about it.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

This is overall a pretty great video! There are some things I wanna comment about though: -I would switch around Sonic 2 8-bit, Chaos, and Drift to after Sonic 3, since that game's events take place a few days after Sonic 2 16-bit's. I'd also put Sonic CD before Sonic 2 since Tails isn't in that game and Eggman could simply be trying something different with the Mecha Sonic line afterwards. -I'd make it so that Tails' Skypatrol takes place at the same time as Sonic Blast. Tails isn't in Blast and likewise Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman aren't in Skypatrol. -In the red timeline, I would switch around Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic 4, since it wouldn't make sense for Eggman to change to his modern outfit then go back to his classic one before permanently switching back to his modern outfit. And while it potentially messes with Knuckles a bit, Sonic Pocket Adventure could go between Sonic 3 and Sonic 4. -The timeline gets even more convoluted after Generations as well, with another split timeline forming after that game, possibly resulting in four different timelines. Modern Sonic has Lost World and Classic Sonic has Mania before they meet up together again in Forces. After that, I guess for Classic Sonic's timeline Sonic Mania Plus's Encore Mode takes place for the red timeline (Mighty and Ray are captured, possibly explaining the missing poster in the console version of Generations) while the blue timeline would have Sonic Mania Adventures (Mighty and Ray are just out and about, helped by Mighty appearing in Knuckles Chaotix). -I was also going to add something about maybe adding Sonic X and the IDW comic onto this timeline for fun, but my limited knowledge on the Metarex Saga from the former ultimately confused me. I believe they could be added though.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

@Burst Gaming That's literally what I said.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

@Burst Gaming It does, look at the Japanese instruction manual.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

@Burst Gaming It's canon, not my problem.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

@Burst Gaming It's from the Japanese instruction book, which is more canon and less messed up compared to the US ones.

[@djkidna]

Sonic CD is 100% before Sonic 2. Sonic CD started development before Sonic 2, uses Sonic 1's sprites whereas Sonic 2 uses updated sprites, has a less refined Spin Dash which could be taken as being Sonic was still learning the move, and there's a hidden screen with Tails in the game that literally says "See you Next Game". It also makes more sense for 2 to be right before 3 in the timeline because 3's story is immediately after the ending of Sonic 2, with the Death Egg falling and the Tornado following it immediately from the battle to Angel Island.

[@echoexe6253]

"Oh crap I forgot Sonic Riders." So did Sega.

[@devanarcher7054]

The time split at CD doesn't make sense if you take Sonic 4 into account because it acts like Little Planet left back to where it usually goes at the end of CD, which doesn't happen unless Sonic manages to save it, because if he doesn't Eggman just teleports it back, so Little Planet being like it was saved but yet having the Bad Future is a big inconsistency

[@ianhawke2203]

I have my disagreements here and there, but overall, good video. That being said, there are some things I wanna say/point out: - 3 takes place immediately after 2 as shown by the ending. Nothing can fall between them. - The Sega Scourge did a really good video explaining the Blaze discrepancy. Check it out if you can. - Takashi Iizuka stated that Eggman Nega is from the future. Since he was shunned for being related to the OG Eggman, it wouldn’t be a stretch to stay that he escaped or was sent to another dimension. - Since he already knows Sonic and the gang and now hates Eggman in the Rivals duology, those games likely fall after Rush Adventure. - CD’s placement doesn’t really make sense. I know you mentioned Generations as evidence, but going off of boss order as evidence, Unleashed should be after Colors. - Amy foreshadows a date with Sonic near the end of Unleashed. This is likely the one referenced at the end of Black Knight. - I believe the Riders trilogy falls somewhere in the timeline. Sonic mentions Eggmanland in ZG and says he never gave up on it, likely placing it after the Rush games and before or after Unleashed. - I’m kinda iffy on the statement that 4 is a few months after 3, as Generations, which came out between both episodes, contradicts this with the character designs.

[@shupasopni]

He forgot Riders. Why did you bring them up as if he placed them one after the others?

[@ianhawke2203]

@@shupasopni I said “I believe the Riders trilogy falls somewhere in the timeline”.

[@shupasopni]

@@ianhawke2203 Oh I see what you meant now. But still he seems to believe it too. He just forgot Riders.

[@ianhawke2203]

@@shupasopni Here’s my own timeline on the series: Original timeline: SegaSonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic CD Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Sonic & Knuckles Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Advance Sonic Advance 2 Sonic Heroes Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Battle Sonic Advance 3 Sonic 06 Sonic Rivals Sonic Rivals 2 Sonic & the Secret Rings Sonic Rush Sonic Rush Adventure Sonic Riders Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity Sonic Free Riders Sonic Unleashed Sonic & the Black Knight Sonic Colors Sonic Generations Sonic Lost World Sonic Forces Team Sonic Racing Sonic Frontiers Mania timeline: SegaSonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic CD Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic Generations Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Sonic & Knuckles Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Mania Plus

[@generalZee]

You can also plug Sonic 2 into Sonic & Knuckles to play Sonic 2 & Knuckles in which Kunckles just runs through the entirety of Sonic 2 in Sonic's place. Not sure if that's non-canononical, or it's technically some kinda prequel to Sonic 3.

[@ShikiKiryu]

I love Sonic ♥ I'm a bit of a lore nerd for the series too so this makes me very happy to see :D The sonic comics are a great deep dive as well which could be fun to see you look at with your 'regular' style content but this was still just as awesome~

[@warioskapelli3100]

I really love your take on the split timeline starting because of Sonic CD. Super creative stuff 👌

[@yeahman20]

I think MatPat was just scared the FNAF timeline might have a new rival

[@Eldrisaur]

“Oh crap I forgot Sonic Riders” So did Sega apparently

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

Always had the headcanon that SegaSonic was chronologically when Sonic and Eggman first met. Glad to know me and Drake think alike. ^^

[@milestheprower8583]

This was a pretty good look at the time line idk if I fully agree with everything but the split in CD I always assumed that since gens came out

[@smollmoth6376]

I knew I heard of this guy's voice before , this was such a nostalgic throwback I'm glad to see you are doing well.

[@BardicLasher]

This is amazing, but honestly feels like it needs to be longer. Also, I'd love to see a bigger timeline image that showed the two in parallel to be easier to read, with comments on each cementing them as being in one of the two timelines.

[@four-en-tee]

Idk, its worth considering possibly that Sonic Mania would retcon Sonic 4. Not to mention that Sonic Forces kind of contradicts the events of Sonic Generations.

[@versal12]

If I may, I disagree with your placement of 06. I (atleast personally) have always placed it at the end of the Sonic Timeline. I do this because Shadow is an agent in GUN. Why does this matter? In Shadow's story he gets an optional mission to do a test for a Gun Recruiter. Said test is the standard test that they give to all GUN recruits. The recruiter assures shadow it will be easy as it's the same test he took years ago to get into GUN. So 06 HAS to take place YEARS after ATLEAST Shadow the Hedgehog. I can definately see it BEFORE generations but I still argue for being after as there is an arguement to be made about Generations Time Eater messing with both past and future victories sonic will get

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

Nice! And even if this script is a bit old, the theory still holds water given that the Classic Sonic met in “Forces” is said to be from a separate dimension as opposed to the past like in “Generations”. Some people suspect that this alternate timeline might’ve split even earlier than “CD”, with the Time Eater appearing to send Classic Sonic into that white lmbo during what appears to be the events of the first Genesis game.

[@capt_howdy]

CD can’t take place after 2, because true ending of 2 (super sonic and tails flying) is literally the opening scene of 3. Only way I can see CD being after 2 is like a parallel timeline where you do the normal ending without super sonic.

[@bobthebuilder8110]

What about sonic's green eyes? They are a clear marker for the separation of past sonic and future. Even though it makes sense to put "Sonic 3D Blast" after "Sonic 4: Parts I and II" due to "Sonic 3D Blast" containing Knuckles with "Sonic 4: Parts I and II" being stated to take place right after "Sonic 3 and Knuckles", this is still an inconsistency due to the color of the eyes. Is it possible that time traveled was involved, and that future sonic decided to have an adventure with tails after generations by time traveling to the time period after "Sonic 3 and Knuckles", thus leaving past sonic and tails back in the time period after generations? Or maybe that the events of "Sonic 3D Blast" are counted as part of the events of "Sonic 3 and Knuckles", maybe the events taking place between "Sonic 3" and "Sonic and Knuckles".

[@dartagnanearl1467]

Wow your really creative when making this time and I think makes sense due to how many people to forget the handheld games ever happen due to them not playing or hearing of these charaters in years and it been like dream watching them come back again due to the games recently not bring some charaters while other are left to rotted in the past to wait for their chance to be in the spotlight.

[@Retrosparks]

I know this isn’t really meant to be taken seriously but please make a part 2 to this because I think about this sort of like all the time and I actually predicted the 2 timeline thing in my head but instead of it being related to sonic cd it was tied to generations because when classic sonic went into the portal at the end of the console game, I thought that THAT is where sonic 4 starts but after watching this video, it aaallllllllllllll makes sense now cuz like DUH sonic cd is all about time travel so thank you for making this video that I’ve been looking for for so long :)

[@joeytabora1052]

Pretty fun video Drake. And to be fair, I don't blame you for not updating the timeline for anything post 2016, cause I'm sure the video would have been a lot more convoluted to write since there's likely at least 3 timelines now, though different theorists disagree on some minor details, but needless to say the combination of the effects of the time travel that classic sonic experienced in generations and the stone in mania that seemingly snatches him up into a different universe complicate things a lot. As a side note, the way I always rationalized the whole Rush/06/Rivals situation is that Blaze is from the future of Sonic's dimension as seen in 06, seals herself in the Sol dimension, but she arrives there at a much earlier point in time, such that she would have been around already when Sonic goes to the Sol dimension, and that Eggman Nega is from . . well, somewhere, probably the Sol Dimension but it doesn't really matter, as he could just be misleading the heroes when he claims a different backstory, as part of some sort of master plan. Also funnily enough, re: the riders joke at the end, idk where they go in the timeline but I do have some recollection on an old sonic forum during a discussion of canon that it was brought up that a higher up who worked on the sonic series had made a statement that the riders games were part of canon, and that was one of those statements where a lot of these games weren't even mentioned, sort of a more conservative estimation of canon I guess. So they probably are, which is just as well I suppose, since one of the riders games proves that the planet has at least two moons, which means that the thing that sonic fans love to debate about the whole half blown up moon situation is kind of irrelevant, as we could just not be looking at that one lolol.

[@joeker5208]

CD takes place before 2

[@VirtuaMaster]

It's a good version of the timeline! Great work.

[@MungkaeX]

SegaSonic the Hedgehog Arcade game was released in 1993, not the same month as Sonic 1 (1991). That isn’t to say that from a timeline perspective it can’t fit there; but that rational for it’s placement is a bit loose.

[@frogoat]

Dope stuff. I love timeline videos that go hard to make sense of big franchises.

[@TheShadowInTheMask]

I LOVE IT! Wish you rolled in the Metal is Sonic from the future theory, explains why Eggman can't build another one. I've only heard that he is a transformed, defeated, undead-robotic Sonic but I wonder if Nega was actually the one who did it and Eggman just found him. Could explain why he can turn into a giant version of himself, a dragon and also accomplish shapeshifting. Neo Metal even looks like something from the Eggman Nega future/dimension.

[@WolforNuva]

When working on stuff like this it's best to work with as official material as possible. The more fan theories you add into the mix, the higher chance you have to get things wrong.

[@shrapt3528]

@@WolforNuva Yes its better to cover these theories and speculate in a separate video rather than trying to confuse the timeline more.

[@TheShadowInTheMask]

@@WolforNuva yea true... though tbh this vid just gave me the idea 💡

[@morrigansbestcrow]

That was fantastic drake, I've been curious about where metal sonic fit into the story all my life and this patches basically every hole. One question, did you find out anything about when knuckles and robotnik team up or are sonic 3 and adventure the best explanations we get? I don't think it exists in the games anywhere...?

[@EmperorDodd]

I think Sonic 3's manual had an explanation for why Knuckles teamed up with Robotnik. This is from memory, so the details may be a bit off, but I believe it was something like this: Upon the conclusion of Sonic 2, the Death Egg fell out of orbit, and happened to land on the magical floating island of Angel Island, knocking it out of the sky and into the ocean. Robotnik somehow encountered Knuckles, learned of the Master Emerald (or at least inferred that SOMETHING powerful must have been causing the island to float in the sky), and managed to convince Knuckles that Sonic was a villain out to steal the Master Emerald for himself. The plausibility of this lie was probably helped by the fact that Knuckles had no real prior contact with the outside world, and also the fact that Sonic had already collected all seven Chaos Emeralds and was indeed using their power for himself. Robotnik thus pretends to help Knuckles fend off these intruders, while secretly waiting for an opportunity to steal the Emerald himself; of course, once Robotnik does actually steal the Master Emerald, Knuckles immediately realizes his mistake, and joins up with Sonic against Dr. R. As for Sonic Adventure... Knuckles as portrayed in that game is just really gullible, enough to believe a lie from Dr. Eggman about Sonic's actions despite already knowing that Eggman is a villain ^.^;

[@shrapt3528]

@@EmperorDodd Nah I don't think knuckles is that gullible. Sure it was pretty dumb for knuckles to believe that but he was doing anything to restore the pieces of the master emerald. Knuckles would do anything for it so idk.

[@EmperorDodd]

@@shrapt3528 I felt like he was being uncharacteristically gullible in that one part of Sonic Adventure, but you may have a good point about there being a good reason why he wasn't at his mental best at that moment. The consequences if he had disbelieved, and Eggman WAS telling the truth, would have been extremely unacceptable to him. Plus, it's not like he didn't at least try to confirm for himself, although he did misinterpret what he saw.

[@shupasopni]

@@EmperorDodd Knuckles is obscenely gullible due to his time alone. He fell for the same trick numerous times. Off the top of my head he fell for it and worked with Eggman again in both Advance 2 AND Triple Trouble.

[@shupasopni]

@sk I don't believe it ever comes up. Maybe it's mentioned in a manual. I feel like he was said to initially be territorial to Eggman before he was misled but I could be wrong and that never gets touched on either. All I know for sure is he has fallen for the "Sonic is actually bad" trick at least 4 times now.

[@ezbooksmarketing5898]

8:10 Correction: Sonic CD takes place Inbetween Sonic 2 and Sonic 1

[@TevyaSmolka]

Happy april fools day and well great job on this sonic hedgehog timeline video

[@JustAPaperface]

For the other games Sonic Mania placement - Sonic Mania takes place in the good future timeline, after Sonic R specifically, as the existence of a classic style Amy doll in the same way as tails doll makes an appearance, as well as Bean, Bark, and Fang in the Heavy Magician Boss, as well as a non roboticized Stardust speedway making an appearance as well Sonic Forces placement - i Believe that Sonic Forces takes place in the Bad Future time line after Sonic Lost World, due to the fact that Mania sonic (explicitly stated to be from an alternative dimension) appears, as well as Zavok. Id be happy to talk about this more!

[@JustAPaperface]

@Blazing go ahead, i dont see why not

[@lynntaylor9681]

It was cool to see Billiam for a little while during the video. I like it when you appear on each other's channels. Good video. It's too bad Game Theory rejected it. It was interesting.

[@TequilaGundam]

Sonic brotherhood is my favorite sonic game of all time I love that every time you beat the game you restart with your end stats I spent my whole childhood thinking there was more after the ending and I thought was missing something but no the game just kinda cliff hangs us

[@SKYPATROL1ONE]

Appreciate the love for Skypatrol, underrated and I personally think it's pretty cool lol

[@GDV_]

I really enjoyed your shows on game theory so when you vanished I took decided to find out if you had another youtube channel, so happy I did cause every video you've made has been great

[@gamegearvita817]

I think the bad future stuff is in generation because the white void generally act as a disposal for moments in time that are erased while sonic 4 is because they didn’t have other background texture from generation beside the bad future

[@STICKOMEDIA]

This is all makes so much sense... so much sense in fact that I'm gonna reorganize my sonic collection

[@austinpercival783]

This was great! I always loved your game theory stuff so this is just more awesome

[@TheJege12]

The handheld games being in a different continuity does make sense

[@flamingoodness4923]

Really cool concept you have here. If we used this theory for the sonic timeline, it would explain why gemerl is never seen during sonic rush, even at creams house where he started living after the events of sonic advance 3. The inconsistencies of the games are most likely just a cause of sonic team handling their own work sloppily, but it’s still a neat idea that does remedy some plot line problems this series has been suffering from!

[@frankbarrie6785]

Lol that was cool u had Billiam "cameo" at the end. I love like all of yours and his vids.. So awesome! I didn't even kno u guys knew each other lol. Great vid btw! Thank u!

[@Diamonddeath]

CD doesn't have to split the timeline for things to still work out. You can still achieve a perfect ending without destroying all the generators, which result in good futures. This means that bad futures can still result in a perfect ending. All you really need to do is get all the Time Stones, which wind up destroying all the Generators throughout the game by themselves. This results in a good future for Stardust Speedway after the game ends, though, but the appearance of Stardust Speedway's bad future in other games can easily be explained. Its appearance in Generations is moot because Sonic 06's Crisis City level shows up as well, indicating that erased futures can be brought in by the Time Eater. Its appearance in Mania can be due to Phantom Ruby shenanigans remaking it into Eggman's liking. And its appearance in 4 can be explained by Eggman utilizing the Time Stones to rescue Metal Sonic from the Bad Future that he was defeated in, since at that point he has reestablished control over Little Planet. In fact, Eggman's takeover of Little Planet in 4 can directly result in Stardust Speedway's future once again becoming bad and remaining that way. In Mania, which is in another timeline, Sonic saves its future once again, but we never find out what happens to its future in the main timeline. It can either be a good future or a bad future.

[@ihaiamaxwell6028]

I've subscribed bro. I've watched on and off since Comicstorian and ComicsExplained first started. I love sonic and watched back in the day. Now my 4yr old and twin 3yr Old boys are watching old school Sonic

[@mberka12]

I wouldn't really consider this an April fool's day video but It's always interesting to hear about lost or Rejected ideas

[@Tomi-berry]

This lore goes deep. Especially the first game in the timelin. It’s like sonic moved on from ray and ditched his old friends; replacing them with tails and Knuckles

[@VanoverWomack]

Counter Argument: Episode Metal doesn't take place in the bad future, but in the timeline where Sonic decided didn't he feel like trying to deal all that building up speed BS on the awkward terrain and just got the true ending by just getting the Chaos emeralds instead.

[@aydenrozzelle7691]

I think I've figured out where it goes. Fang only appears in games of the good timeline. Placing mania somewhere between sonic 3 and heroes. With the ruby sending sonic all the way to the end of the bad future timeline. (Due to the fact Zavok is there). Sonic mania is basically replacing sonic 4. With Eggman attempting to rule little planet again. But with the interference of the ruby, he has a change of plans.

[@JaredtheRabbit]

My theory states that there is a split after Sonic Adventure (rather than Generations and/or CD), which results in a time where Sonic was defeated at the hands of Perfect Chaos, and it is here where I put the TV shows and comics (minus Sonic X, as it it set in a universe parallel to the Adventure duo) that you said were their own things.

[@danteshier5214]

Could the other timelines have a connection back to the main series game timelines? I think the comic universe is pretty much self contained but who knows maybe its all predating the first game and some time/dimensional shenanigans happened. Though I could certainly see boom somehow fitting in some kind of split timeline. Also riders definitely feels main series games universe, but I'd bet its much later in the timeline than anything else so far. That or it's somehow part of boom.

[@wgbee1242]

If we’re talking Archie then yeah that’s non-canon, now if we’re talking IDW, it’s probably non-canon, plus it seems to take place in a different universe where it’s just animals since we are shown central city in the comic book being inhabited by animals instead of humans

[@ibitejawbreakers61]

The simple idea that the handheld games represent a branching timeline satisfies so much lifelong cognitive dissonance for me. I wish this was accepted by Game Theory back in the day, I would have loved that.

[@ryandyer3466]

This theory does explain why the missing poster for Mighty and Ray in Sonic Generations says missing since 1993 yet Mighty appeared in Knuckles Chaotix.

[@keanuorange690]

I need more Sonic content by you! You cover comics AND Sonic lore?!? You're the perfect KZbin channel for me 🥹

[@ComicDrake]

BIg Sonic video coming later this month!

[@ozby11]

@@ComicDrake one month later…

[@icarusgaming6269]

Are we sure the airplane was meant to originally belong to Sonic? Grammatically that is what that sentence means, but we've literally never seen him pilot it even once, so maybe it got lost in translation I like to think the secret agent training that unlocks after the true ending of Shadow the Hedgehog (that nobody played because you already had to do every mission and outcome already) takes place after Battle. In that game, Shadow is still reclusive and distant, like he's still processing all the manipulation he went through at the hands of every faction. He's also nursing an injury, presumably from his fight with Black Doom. When we next see him in Sonic 06, he's a new man, professional and focused. He's completely transformed by the confidence boost he got from finding his new purpose in his training after closing the book on a major chapter in his life

[@OldBird-52]

*Sonic Advance rears it’s head

[@mrcuccob6386]

Any time you talk about gaming is like a blast from the past.

[@MilesAway]

Sonic and The Black Knight's ending mentions something that happened in Unleashed, Amy and Sonic planning a date, which Sonic missed because of the events of Black Knight. So Black Knight has to have happened directly after Unleashed.

[@RedyShines]

I think we can all agree we all want an updated version of this timeline and how mania fits into all of this. I mean, think about how we start off stardust speedway in the past... that's when I started to fall down a rabbit hole of questions.

[@cofagrigusfan24]

so a split timeline from console & handheld yet both Mania & Forces suggest *another* split timeline where after CS (Classic Sonic) got send back from Generations, instead of heading into 3D with Adventure, we stayed in 2D with Mania and the CS we see in Forces is from Mania (as he has the drop dash, a move introduced in Mania) that is also why Generations has CS from the past (pre-Mania), while Forces has CS from another dimension/timeline (post-Mania)

[@TheCreepypro]

best april fools video and don't worry we all forgot sonic riders

[@syweb2]

14:24 I'm pretty sure that she was relying on _Silver_ to teleport her, and since he _didn't,_ she, you know... _died._ She even goes up into the light and everything.

[@DiamondBatToons]

First of all, I'm aware this was back in 2016, so whenever you get the chance, PLEASE do a Part 2 to this! One that includes the more recent games! (& the Riders games) Also, This whole thing just blew my mind! ESPECIALLY the Two-Timelines thing. This kind of hurts my head just thinking about it...🤕, Thank GOD the Films are considered a more-or-less REBOOT/separate timeline for us to enjoy easily!

[@militarypineapples7637]

I like to think that CD takes place before Sonic 2, and the prototypes were just last minute attacks against Sonic while Eggman is focused on the Death Egg. Also makes sense when Sonic 3 takes place directly after Sonic 2. With Mania, I don't what everybody's talking about, but I think it is obvious Generations made a time split, and Forces is right after Mania.

[@bobbyonkazoo3512]

there is mentions that eggman has never put animals in the robots before sonic one, which contributes to segasonic being the first game as its the only one where animals dont come out of the robots that could possibly take place before hand

[@KidPrarchord95]

Spinball actually takes place in its own continuity completely separate from all the other games, cartoons, comics, etc. It's really interesting to look into.

[@amesstarline5482]

Thank you for acknowledging Sonic Gens 3DS- it's a shame many "handheld console" games are very overlooked. The fact the "handheld timeline" would be its own split is really neat. I like thinking Archie has some of the handheld timeline's elements, hence the Sonic 2 GG and prescence of Marine, despite later adapting Unleashed. It would fit with how Sonic Advance 3 is implied in that timeline as well- while IDW could be a "modified Console timeline"

[@darkychao]

wait, how can you not place 3K directly after 2? the intro of the game (and I'm pretty sure the manual as well) seems to be pretty clear that 3K happens _right_ after the Death Egg crashes to from orbit onto Angel Island, that's like the entire plot of the game.

[@shrapt3528]

Ye and I always thought Sonic CD happened straight after sonic 1 as he isn't friends with tails at that point and eggman was creating a robot that could rival his speed. Then in sonic 2, he created a robot that could spindash like he could. But in sonic 3, he created a robot that could become a super form like he saw sonic do at the end of sonic 2, start of sonic 3.

[@Smellman64]

The fact that sonic the lost worlds came out after he originally researched this means this is at least nine years old 🤯

[@Frenchy_47]

The true cannon timeline is Sonichu’s one.