Darkest Dungeon vs Darkest Dungeon 2

A brief comparison overview of the key differences between Darkest Dungeon (2016) and Darkest Dungeon II (2023). What type of changes did the developers make, what kind of players will each title appeal to?
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction & Overview
3:59 Progression
7:48 Presentation
10:12 Heroes
13:05 Combat
16:06 Narrative
19:18 Conclusion
Join the discord: / discord
Support me on Patreon: / reviewgen
Music: Stuart Chatwood - Darkest Dungeon OST, Darkest Dungeon II OST

[@ReviewGen]

New DLC announced does in fact contain.... the Crusader.

[@tylerpetersen6226]

My main complaint about 2 is the tone of the game. In 1 with each boss we slay it feels like we are slowly fixing things. We are putting the smugglers out of their misery, crushing the hag's coven, and laying the necromancers to rest. We are the force that is breathing new life in a nearly doomed town. With 2 we are a merry band of murder hobos in a doomed world trying to get to a mountain. It does not feel like we are succeeding in actually making progress in the world around us.

[@leodarknesshelm]

Maybe you're just immersing yourself more in dd1. I'm currently playing 1 and it doesn't feel thar way at all. It feels like I'm just fighting to survive in a doomed world

[@FatWalterWhite69]

The games are just so different that most things people say they don’t like about dd2, aren’t actually bad just not what they wanted.

[@danny_decheeto8300]

Yeah

[@thelaw3536]

I'd say it's bad from the perspective that dd2 doesn't inspire anything. it's just fine.

[@Ocean5ix]

I would back a crowdfund for RedHook to remake DD1 on 2's engine and graphics.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

So you want it's unique quality to die

[@Ocean5ix]

@@MGrey-qb5xz Don’t care about DD2s unique quality. I want 1 to look better.

[@lojika1majik]

⁠​⁠@@Ocean5ixI think he meant DD1’s look, not DD2.

[@vernontk]

Red Hook seems to favor making new things.

[@SaluteMalute]

@@Ocean5ix DD1 looks good as it is no need for "upgrade" liek dd2 or w/e , we just wanted new dungeons bosses items heroes etc.

[@nunuarthas8680]

Always expect hight quality from this channel, but can I say that is one of the coolest swipe screen animation I've ever seen in this kind of videos (chef's kiss).

[@Satafinix69]

DD2 is good, but DD1 is just amazing! i kinda dropped DD2 after about 20h and didnt bother to come back but DD1 i ALWAYS find myself craving replaying it

[@NoxLegend1]

True same

[@TheUltimateBastich]

My take: Darkest Dungeon 2 is a good game, but it sadly followed a great game that is DD1. Too many changes to simple formula, all we wanted was more dungeons, bosses and Hamlet stuff. Total conversion mod called Black Reliquary is true DD2. If those games were released in different order, then all would be fine.

[@doctordice2doctordice210]

I feel you but the problem Is that dd2 can't risk being similar to 1 because if people wanted more of 1, there's like a million mods that act as free dlc for them to play and have fun with

[@snaggiz]

I agree. If this wasn’t marketed as a sequel but rather as a story spin off version of the original, then it would’ve been received much more positively.

[@nairocamilo]

​@@doctordice2doctordice210I don't feel like that is a problem, though. If you sell it, people buy it.

[@freddamian1019]

​​@@doctordice2doctordice210mods should never be an excuse because not everybody is comfortable in using them and they are obviously not cannon unless redhook says so

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

@@freddamian1019 WTF. Mods are awesome and can greatly extend the enjoyment people get from a game. It does not matter about canon and as long as the person is willing to try mods are not hard to get working.

[@holytuts7897]

amazing video I must say with beautiful transition, gg man

[@yeetmanthe2nd529]

4:52 you do not have to kill all the bosses in order to take on the darkest dungeon. There is no requirement to enter the darkest dungeon, but if you are expected to survive it is required you have Heroes of resolve level 5 or 6. There's even an achievement earned for tossing for resolve level 0 Heroes into the darkest dungeon; so again there is no requirement to enter the darkest dungeon.

[@ReviewGen]

You are correct, though admittedly the wording for this sentence in the video was poor. I did not mean there was any prerequisite or unlocking required, I meant that typical progression would see all the bosses slain, and thus heroes then have enough XP to attempt the final dungeons.

[@max_pl8680]

12:42 In my every attempt, Raynauld falls in love with Dismas 💀

[@tinybubbo1011]

Crips versus Bloods

[@stevenadkins4684]

I’ve enjoyed how well this review has been split in its talking points very well structured

[@Porpafvor]

I actually really like both games.

[@jeremypen7818]

bro this video was so well made

[@BruceLee-kf7rl]

Which one do you prefer?

[@maiknocon773]

finished both but i come back to darkest dungeon 1 rather than 2

[@psycthom]

Great video I think the thing I appreciate most about DD2 is the shift to a more positive and morally 'good' story (to some extent). While I confess some mixed feelings towards DD2 in gameplay its a great game

[@kasteneda]

Thank you

[@carlub3369]

A good honest comparison of the two games. much like the heroes, neither of the games are outright bad just different

[@vernontk]

Not sure which one I like better, but I think they're both masterpieces in game design and presentation. I'm glad they're different so I still feel compelled to enjoy them both.

[@lostexplorersguild767]

Nice. Thanks.

[@GrimmBones]

Only thing that bothers me about DD2 is that I can't have Reynauld along with my Dismas. :c

[@jakepel3117]

Now you can

[@jackstar7204]

GOOD NEWS

[@malcomyoung2240]

The differences between the two games remind me about the first two Dragon Age games, the first being an isometric RPG, the second being an action RPG (and the third one being a single player MMO). The changes in the DD2 coupled with several PR mistakes criplled the game so much that even today, with a Dlc just launched, more people are playing the first one than the sequel. As you said, each game has its own kind of players but you didn't mention the main reason why the first game will outlive the sequel: mods. Even before its launch, the first game had mods: monsters, characters and so on. It's why, today, the sequel seems to lack content, even the dlc, two characters, a new boss and that's it. For the first game, each Dlc characters brought with them new mechanics for the whole game. It's likely we will never see modding coming for the second game, first because of the unity scandal (and Unity are in deep need of money right now, they just fired one thousand employees) and because Red Hook would have to create a program to let modders mod the game. The problem is if this program can be used to mod another unity game, Red Hook could be sued for piracy... Second: Epic does not allow mods. Red Hook already switched their main selling platform between games, it will be really hard for them to go back on Steam with the same game. Third: only 10 members of RH, so a third of the studio, as announced in an interview, is working on DD2. Today three overhaulls of the first game are in the works, sharing the same world. Imo, the first game will be like Skyrim, modded for years to come when the sequel is like Starfield: done. Even a contracted worker who created icons in the second game went to help the team of the Black Reliquary... By making a game so different, they cut they fan base, by choosing Epic, they left the modding community behind and the games being so different, the modding community decide to stay focused on the first one because it has a bigger fanbase and is simpler to mod. Its why when the first game sold 16 millions units, the second barely managed to obtain 2. All of this can be related to dragon age. Bioware went to Origin for the sequel, changed engines (which killed the modding) and changed the kind of game it was. It's stricly the same thing: they divided their fanbase. RH made an interview with the biggest streamer of DD2 and just obtained 13k views, even when they announced an expansion for next year. The cards are in their hands and i'm curious to see what will happen. I'm a big fan of the first game and, as a PR teacher, i use the VG industry as examples because all my studients play VG. Red Hook made mistakes but, contrary to a lot of studio, made good decisions, as letting the Black Reliquary having its own steam page or letting the Iron Crown overhaull being created (at last for now). Their PR manager is way better than the ones at Bioware...

[@themobiusquadron]

All your complaints are about modding and game engine...

[@caljestah3823]

You should do PR for Red Hook. One thing I've always thought Red Hook was missing was a good PR guy to make sure their second game was the same as their first game.

[@themobiusquadron]

@@caljestah3823 I don't want the 2nd game to become just a 3d copy of the first. Pass on that

[@malcomyoung2240]

@@themobiusquadron if you say so... I waited and today, the second game stand by 880 players on steam while the first one is at 6k... DD2 is dead while the first one stay as it was because of mods. I suppose you already moved on, as everyone that played DD2...

[@themobiusquadron]

@@malcomyoung2240 I always return to dd2, no mods motivate me in playing dd1, do a few levels for nostalgia but besides that... is back to dd2. And last hero update began giving new strats to use with Audrey and Dismas.

[@maxym189]

DD2 looks awesome i just bought it :D

[@anders6326]

8:11 Ooof. I'd better get this game before the devs go bankrupt from installs :/ Hopefully they can migrate to Godot! I love how slick the animation is. Like, the Occultist smoothly sheathing that dagger really DOES IT fur me

[@mkv2718]

uh… yeah, that ain’t happening anymore. heck, i don’t think that was still a thing when you wrote that. they fired their CEO and reneged on the whole idea

[@snaggiz]

@@mkv2718That whole debacle was absolutely nuts. Sure greed knows no bounds and all, but that wasn’t just greedy, it was beyond moronic. I’m still friggin’ stunlocked thinking about the whole situation…

[@fangk12345]

​@@snaggiz as far as I know they were never gonna get away with it because they couldn't change an already signed contract.

[@user-tv8qc5ui1n]

Biggest difference is I feel like darkest dungeon 2 respects my time a lot more, and I love the fleshing out of the world. DD1 will always hold a special place in my heart though.

[@stephkruger7995]

Nah but fr tho dd1 for me can’t be beaten I haven’t played 2 yet but I am very close to finishing the first one and it was a masterpiece yes it is really hard but that is what builds adrenaline and fear.

[@TheKingNaesala]

Slight correction: you needn't beat all the bosses in DD1 to take on the final area in DD2. You can even send four fresh recruits in right off the bat.

[@asrieldreemurr1918]

To me you can’t really compare the to since there basic two different game genres

[@casthedemon]

I can like both games at the same time.

[@jayblack854]

suck i cant run the game in my laptop kinda wish they made games for low spec pc

[@FeedYapper]

I don’t have the time or patience for the first game,and I’m not smart enough to optimize correctly,so I like the second one more

[@jayfox4291]

i haven't tried the 2nd game cus $, but sounds like i'll perfer game 1 by miles.

[@danny3xeer]

DD1 vs DD2 vs darkest dungeon: the board game

[@themobiusquadron]

I prefer DD2. You focus on the party you want to use instead of having to grind for levels/upgrades to get the 4 best while you juggle sanity which your favorite hero is insane you have to spend two runs and money just to lower their sanity. People complain on the travel yet when you explore a big dungeon is a long travel pressing right until you backtrack to the place you need to get. Personally i like the hope and more heroic theme of the heroes

[@thagomizer8485]

Completely agree. They are very different games, and in my opinion, DD2 is more enjoyable.

[@madleap1364]

Never finished the first game (not yet at least) and I feel you completely with the having to spend multiple runs and thousands of coin to recooperate my main set of heroes while sending off people I don’t care about to sustain them. Dd2 feels a lot better since I always gain something from my failures

[@NotDuckRBLX]

I like them…. BOTH! Muahahahhaha

[@jmmywyf4lyf]

I just can't find a single redeeming quality about darkest dungeon 2. To me it's a down step in every single way. And despite being a bit of a graphics snob, I actually liked the previous Style more. I liked the comic animations, and the smaller characters, which is quite a surprise to me. The new style is also very nice, looking, I just prefer the old version.

[@CorruptorPeste]

DD2 is a game totally dependant from his predecesor. Imagine if DD2 was the first game, what kind of involvement can you get from that game? None. Your desicions doesn`t matter, if you die you restart with the same char and that`s all.

[@rage_2000]

The dd2 style is cool, but I think I still prefer the 2D art of the original

[@TheRoseLegion]

I appreciate how darkest dungeon 2 respects your time. You still progress in failure and dont have to spend several extra hours regrinding up a high level hero if you botch an expedition. Dont get me wrong i love the cut your loses extreme difficulty of 1, however i dont have the same amount of free time anymore.

[@t.karkov3077]

I can tell modding Dark Dungeons 2 is going to be a nightmare to try to put a skin-newclass altogether.

[@SasNolan]

Modding for DD1 is also a nightmare, but we dont see because there's already many mods. But ask them and they will tell you that having a specific version of each paid-software for DD1 is hell.

[@nytmaire74]

dd1= i have the week off to play dd2= 3hrs free time? i got you this didnt even cover the "class" base system of dd2

[@hemlocktea6643]

DD1Just quit the game and restart it manually Luck can change just hit that button close the program reload battle restart

[@andremariaribeirodacunha3695]

I actually dont think the new graphics have improved the game at all. The first game was quite immersive with its 'choppy' graphics, and it made sense given how the combat is fundamentally simple, with turn base and no movemet. The combat of the second one feels goofy, in part due to the higher graphics and 3d.

[@Xigmatube]

After playing for 10+ hours, the main problem I have with DD2 is the repetition feels much like a grind rather than progression Would be nice if you could voluntarily end the run at any point and somehow keep one of your heroes for the next, so you are emotionally invested with an actual benefit when progressing

[@dramaking9559]

Didnt know what to pick till I saw the first game was less then 10 dollars with DLC so that made my choice lel

[@sassysaddles9981]

i like DD1 cuz its more for niche fans, dd2 goes for its wider audience, DD1 has better modding, dd2 dont even have steam workshop

[@KryyssTV]

I keep seeing this same problem plaguing rogue-likes and resulting in abandonment of their core audience while offering very little appeal to other gamers . Devs seem to be getting this idea that they must allow players to complete a game eventually by making progression tied not to player skill but to stats. For rogue-like fans this removes the sense of achievement because it enforces a "lose to win" loop where the gane gets easier over time and for everyone else they recognise the title as a treadmill rather than a game. And you notice I keep referring to these two distinct groups and that is because when you look at discussions over the pros and cons of various rogue-likes you see two clear attitudes - those who expect to win and those who expect to lose. The rogue fans want for the game to be beatable on the very first run not to have multiple runs become mandatory. Meanwhile the more casual gamers have little tolerance for being sent back to square one. That dichotomy of expectation can only be addressed by an opt-in meta progression system that is designed in such a way that isn't nessersary to engage with it to finish the game. This shift for DD2 actually moves it further away from the rogue-like formula towards a more modern RPG where you're not "making the best of a bad situation" but rather doing team building with minimal need for creative thinking.

[@blackomega34]

Isn't 'lose to win' one of the defining features of the metaprogression stage of a roguelike? Then once the metaprogression is complete you're left with a balanced but still challenging game.

[@andrewboteler7522]

I bought dd2 first day, but i just couldnt get into it since there no management gameplay loop. It was a step back to pure roguelike where you unlock things between runs regardless if you are successful. Its banging your head against a wall till it breaks vs a long continuous journey it feels like. They just now put out a campaign mode, and this feels like something they should have released with. Ill comtinue to revisit dd1 while ignoring dd2 till it feels finished 😂

[@Big-Papa-Smurf]

DD1 combat was better. The unreliable RNG was the soul and spirit of the game. Once had a Houndmaster survive Death's Door for what had to be like twenty turns, tanking HUGE shots. He then got an inspiration and took out the boss. I was one of my all time favorite gaming experiences. I had none of that playing DD2.

[@rikingg5629]

since a lot of people seem to disagree imma go against the current and say that i like dd2 much more than dd1. it's not a thing of the second game being for newbies or it being simplified (i would challenge anybody here to complete a grand slam without losing their minds), it's just that i like roguelites more and the structure of the game is more suited for me. if the game isn't fun for you that's fine just don't expect a dd 1.5 when jumping in the second game.

[@AintPopular]

Much harder to get into than first one. You dont understand any symbols and what they do, not a fan

[@ComradeMaryFromMars]

It realllllly depends on the person they're enjoyable for different reasons the character stories in DD2 is amazing but the main story is much much weaker The second game has more consistent gameplay but DD1 was good because of it's inconsistency

[@thelastdankbender4353]

7:10 That is simply not true, at least not for the regular difficulty. In DD1, you can retreat to save heroes from a wipe. Even a full wipe is not that big of a deal, since you most likely have benched heroes and the town upgrades make it incredibly quick and easy to recruit and upgrade new heroes. Lost trinkets can be quickly recovered too. Essentially, the downtime between tries is usually not that high. Imagine wiping at a final boss of a run in DD2 though. Just to get another shot, you're forced to repeat four areas and a boss fight, with a whole new strategy based on the RNG you get, just to get another shot, brutal. It takes so much more time, planing and patience compared to DD1, where you can just try again with a recovered or different party, using a familiar strategy. Overall, DD2 is much more accessible and an objective improvement over the first game in many aspects, but man, wiping at a final boss feels so much worse than any wipe ever did in DD1.

[@ReviewGen]

Hard disagree. You're comparing runs between games as if they have the same gameplay/emotional investment. A run in DD2 is essentially a fifth of the game. A run in DD1, sure can be 'easily' repeated but the campaign is much longer, so setbacks are dramatically more resonant. Deaths and week limits, on higher difficulties perhaps, make wipes in DD1 possible campaign enders, economic recovery is not guaranteed, and you may have wasted tens of hours already. In DD2, a wipe is essentially that small campaign finished, a few hours or less wasted. You can mentally reset and go again. Getting to a position where you can simply 'go again' in DD1, for instance having multiple level 6 heroes ready to take on final dungeons and bosses, trinkets and quirks, ready to replace failed attempts, will take hours upon hours to setup. Early game it's easier sure, but that's only a small fraction of the game.

[@voodooozo3755]

I think DD1 allows you to play and face challanges the way you want to. DD2 says how you are supposted to do things optimaly or suffer for not doing so. ( I know there is somehwat variety of choosing characters and their paths even tho some feel simply much better than the others, but there is no such thing at all with trinkets. The game is much more reliant on RNG much more than the first one, and in the places where it shouldnt be. )

[@thelastdankbender4353]

The main difference between the games is that the grind in DD2 feels less rewarding than the grind in DD1. Otherwise, they are functionally the same game with minor differences in execution. DD1 grind is upgrading your town and heroes and collecting trinkets, while DD2 grind is upgrading your wagon, unlocking stuff and getting to the point where you wiped last time just to try again.

[@DB-xz1sb]

I really love DD2, its basically DOOM 2016 vs DOOM Eternal

[@danny_decheeto8300]

Both games are good, they are just very different

[@dejected247]

So brave❤

[@celwenileran2135]

DD1 has mods and is overall a superior game. DD2 has no mods, lower modding potential and not even an official support. On top of that everything feels so random.

[@olmaned3795]

I played dd2 for a couple of hours, unistalled it and went back to dd1.

[@jays.6843]

1 was better in every single way but graphics. Even the difficulty curve was better.

[@kybalion5205]

DD1 is better. Much better. DD2 is for the casual audience whereas DD1 is a more involved game that requires more thought

[@ReviewGen]

I tend towards that opinion as well, but I will make conclusive comparison on which is better in my Year In Review.

[@caspermycat3646]

The thing is DD1 is a completely finished game with two DLCs, DD2 still has a long road to go. But atm I think DD1 is better, but DD2 has potential to be better

[@Ocean5ix]

DD2 might be casual when compared to 1 but it still is a very hardcore game that pretty much only people that really dedicate themselves will beat.

[@Ocean5ix]

@@caspermycat3646 Problem with DD2 is not really content, it's that the core gameplay loop was drastically changed.

[@NinjapowerMS]

Only thing I prefer about this game is the character models hard to go back to tiny characters.

[@thomasneal9291]

These days you should probably also compare what the mod communities are like for each game. They make a HUGE difference.

[@ReviewGen]

As an avid modder myself, I will be covering modding a lot in the upcoming year in review.

[@TheSuperPlayerify]

DD2 is a good game, but imo not a good darkest dungeon game

[@bladechild2449]

Red Hook just never got it. They had one of the best turn based games ever premised and just made it worse and worse as it went on. Admittedly the first game can still be enjoyed with options and mods, but the fact they even felt like it needed a watered down shittt sequel just goes to show how clueless they were for the most part. Really interested to see what they do next because it will even be he dumbest thing ever, or a No Man's Sky esque redemption arc. No in betweens

[@thomasneal9291]

Reminds me of PopCap and their disastrous transition from Plants vs Zombies 1 vs 2. 1 was a fantastic game; top of genre and immediate classic. 2... was an entirely forgettable mobile game done strictly as a quick cash grab that failed.

[@pood40o72]

First!

[@SasNolan]

14:40 - This, this is fucking bullshit. Because these tokens make game even more convoluted and too complex. How the fuck do i remember all of this just by glance. DD1 is very simple and easy.

[@themobiusquadron]

Icons for dodge for example is 50% dodge or 75% dodge icons while on DD1 you have to highlight how many buffs debuffs you received and then check % dodge might say 87.97% to dodge.... and still dd2 when you highlight the enemy it tells you the chances LIKE dd1. So tokens makes easier to understand. Add to that you can view those icons in combat via the legend . All blue negative and all yellow positive

[@vernontk]

I find the tokens easier to track. Risk/Reward at a glance. Have to learn them all though.

[@Icole-cv4px]

These tokens aren't that hard to remember.

[@falco5148]

Dd2 is a watered down version of Dd1 so they can try to appeal to the normies. genuinely cringe. looks like a fucking mobile game.

[@lusurpateur2381]

That's like your opinion mate, darkest dungeon 2 is a very solid game, the mechanics are easier to understand and still challenging when yopu don't know shit about the monster you face. And DD1 just ask too much time to recover from a bad run. Experimenting different syniergies is better in DD2, because you progress through your failure and lose only 2 hours of your time. DD1 is super fun, but i will never do it again simply because i don't want to play 10 hours in order to level up a character just because another died by wyzardy statistics.

[@thomasfrc3289]

Reviewer trying hard to make DDII a good game with comparable quality as DD1. So funny, how much did they pay you ?

[@aaronlaughter6471]

As someone who played DD1, then jumped into DD2, all I can say is this, I love DD1, would rather get cancer again then play DD2. DD2 feels nothing like the first one. And before people say I wanted DD1 but more. Yes, that is the point of a sequel. Hell Imagine if Gears of War 2, instead of being like the first one, was a tactics game. People would be justified in being made. Hell not to mention the art style took a massive leap back, went from dark Lovecraftian horror, to 3d anime, and anime makes everything worse. DD2 should not have had the 2, hell maybe call the game Darkest Trip, or something else to signify the the game is nothing like the first one.

[@themobiusquadron]

What makes dd.... dd. Is the combat. It's the 4 positioning and team management.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@themobiusquadron I would thank the atmosphere, the art style, the rouge like elements and the Lovecraftian horrors would also be what makes a Darkest dungeon game, but hey, you would know that if you actually played the game longer then is needed to say you did.

[@themobiusquadron]

@@aaronlaughter6471 Atmosphere is there, art style is there , rogue elements are there, so lovecraftian body gore horror is there. Most complaints are superficial, I wanted to say I love both games but then people who are bashing the second game with very poor thought out reasons come along to ruin it.

[@themobiusquadron]

you say the darkest trip like if thats a different game, yet in the first game, moving from room to room is just you clicking on the map and holding right / D for God knows how long to reach another location like if that actually changed the game when the COMBAT is literally whats makes it DD and is identical to the first.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@themobiusquadron God you come off as if I fucked your wife and your kids call me dad. I don't like the second game. It changes so much from the first game if feels and plays worse, and it lost all the charm the first one had.