games with crazy rushed development...

[@KnightSlasher]

Honestly seeing rushed games like dead island 2, doom 2016, and halo 2 actually being good actually gives me hope in the future of gaming

[@alr68]

It's a double edged sword. If the rushed game is good then the publisher will feel justified in exploiting their devs even harder with crunch.

[@AkimboSwords]

Rushed projects from 7 years ago give you hope for the "future of gaming"? You got me all kinds of confused.

[@JB2FROSTY]

Vice City was dope too

[@manukau5271]

Like a Dragon Gaiden

[@BrianRocksNow]

For every good rushed game, there's a graveyard of bad ones.

[@LKRTM]

one thing about Saints Row that always made me chuckle was that the GTA V reveal trailer came out before the launch of Saints Row The Third, and Rockstar was still releasing GTA V trailers by the time Saints Row IV was released. Obviously you pointed out the financial situation at THQ but the difference in mindset between the two was so stark, even to me as a younger teen at the time. Crazy to think there was a time where people debated whether Saints Row or GTA were the better franchises, seems unthinkable now.

[@krono5el]

Saints Row 1 and 2 are still more fun than all the gta games maybe besides gtaonline. go back and play Saints row 2 then gta4 and see which has better controls and gameplay.

[@mike04574]

different styles of games lol, gta games still more quality@@krono5el

[@krono5el]

@@mike04574 always gameplay over graphics

[@mike04574]

didnt say gta had better graphics@@krono5el

[@mike04574]

or that graphics mattered

[@djradish4]

Halo 2 is a good example of a good rushed game Same with New Vegas

[@thedoomslayer108_YT]

Cyberpunk 2077 would be a great example of rushing a game to please the suits that resulted in tarnishing the reputation of CD Projekt Red. At least the game has gotten much better with patches, Edgerunners Update, Update 2.0, and the Phantom Liberty DLC.

[@djradish4]

​@@thedoomslayer108_YTI agree

[@hansolo417]

These 2 for sure. Still hold up today

[@ASouthParkFan2010]

Vice city:😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😭

[@Arthur_calahan]

Vice City and ODST too

[@kushCloudz1Clips]

Mw3 trophy set is literally a dlc trophy set under mw2 trophy list smh

[@chillducky6489]

That's cuz of the CoD HQ, MWII got basically turned into an HQ that will have all the future games for now

[@TheCluelesspanda]

And yet its way better than mw2

[@FatherPhoenix7]

@@TheCluelesspanda yall just say this shit cuz its the current game🤣

[@TheCluelesspanda]

@@FatherPhoenix7 what? This is a genuinely dumb comment. MW3 is better than 2. Come back in a year when black ops 6 is out and my comment/opinion won't change, just like your comment being dumb will still be as dumb a year from now.

[@SILENTHILLFOREST]

Thank god i never bought mw3 id rather play the og the original story wasnt 3 hours 😂

[@linkfreeman1998]

Thing is, there's one game that apparently took the developers twice to build it cuz of change of directions... And it feels a tad rushed for the ending... That was this year's 25 year old game, Half-Life 1. Really, they made two versions of the game in the span of two years.

[@franus7656]

half life 1 is free on steam now

[@gibleyman]

They literally restarted the project from scratch because "it wasn't fun". That's some huge balls Valve got back then. I'd also personally mention Vice City too, the game is fundamentally identical to GTA3 yet still felt fresh thanks to the changes they managed to make it a rather short time.

[@Swattii]

To be fair, games were much easier to develop for back then. Nowadays, every game needs microtransactions, live service, a store, battle pass, cross play, hyper focus on multiplayer and level up systems.

[@linkfreeman1998]

@@Swattii I would argue that there never has been time when making a game is easier than the other. Though I do agree with the multiplayer thing, its cancerous. MP is a tumor in gaming.

[@White927]

@@Swattii That's what Steam is also about.

[@Vinny2142]

Loving the more category-based content and wide swath of games/topics covered within - hope all is doing well!

[@tylerr6618]

Sonic 06 could’ve been Better if they just had delayed it to 2007, sonic P-06 is proof of that. I just wonder how would they fix the story

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

Knowing that the entirety of Halo 2(including the entire game engine itself) took less than 18 months(and mostly 10 months) to create is ASTOUNDING. Especially since all the basic stuff was created completely randomly by 2 different teams 1000 miles away from eachother, multiple giant features and levels were cut, the story was trimmed heavily, lots of things had to be scrapped, and they were barely able to even play test a single asset on the hardware AT ALL till the last 3 months, where about 80% of the final polishing and implementing the assets of the game was done. Then they had 2-3 weeks to playtest the full game and make fixes, Then they had to stop as it was sent to printers to be put in stores just 4 weeks after testing finished Id say they did pretty damn good, if only they had just 1 more year. Halo CE was a crunch to ship, but all the assets, levels, enemies, whole story, and sounds were there already, and was done by 1 team of about 45 people, plus it didnt even have online play or NEAR as much content or graphical quality

[@Nibbly_Bits]

It's not nice for the developers though.

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

@@Nibbly_Bits sure isnt! lotta fractured relationships and health issues happened...but getting it done at all so fast is incredible

[@skrtskrrrttt8940]

Relax bruhh

[@glyntaylorwilliams]

It's just bad organisation and management by Bungie. People looking at them though rose tinted glasses. It's their fault they created an engine that was too good for the hardware. They knew what the xbox was capable of. It's their fault they built too many levels and had to scrap them.

[@georgec9428]

Re 2:07, all Call of Duty games are built directly off previous ones. World at War was built of CoD 4, for example. Ghosts was built off MW3, and so on.

[@mattfry6716]

I loved playing ODST and I love that the story took place during H2.

[@michaelencinas7855]

Wait whaaaa!?!?!!!!

[@whotio7374]

I just discovered y'all and have been going through your recent videos. I'm really digging this style where it feels like the typical scripted video I came for and then naturally blends into more casual conversation. It's really unique, and y'all pull it off really well.

[@CrNcHyFROG5]

Wild to me that games back in the early 00’s used to be rushed in 12 months and still come out amazingly polished and well-put-together! Nowadays 3000 devs work on something 10 years with 15 delays and it still releases like a bad shovelware nightmare.

[@EJD339]

Games are bigger and have so much more detail. I wouldn't be against having less details in exchange for a quicker release. Eventually things games will get back to being easier to make with new technology, right?

[@LG-ro5le]

They lost there passion

[@CranialExtractor]

Well before the internet was wide spread you had to, there was no such thing as a day 1 patch.

[@CrNcHyFROG5]

@@CranialExtractor Absolutely... I liken it to a school project with a hard deadline vs the professor saying "ehh just turn something in Friday and then you can send me revisions for the rest of the semester and I'll grade it later"

[@CranialExtractor]

@@CrNcHyFROG5 Sure. I also think gaming going from a more fringe passtime to a massive global business ruined a lot of what made games so great. The love of gaming as opposed to a love of money. Games were made with passion, with stories to tell. Now games are made because franchise X hasn't released a game lately.

[@felman87]

Ok, the Melee one is just insane when you put it into perspective. Just a bit over a year on that game developing for the Cube as a launch-ish title. New console hardware, incomplete toolset and not really a whole lot of people to ask for tips and tricks because it's just as new to others as it is to you. And it becomes one of the highest rated games period.

[@bitterkitty]

i LOVE the relaxed feel of the end of the video!!! feels like a "behind the scenes" extra on a dvd haha

[@zyquoo]

Please do more of these researched/guided conversation videos, feels like a very youtube-spirited podcast in a nice way

[@route77productions]

One of my personal favorite rushed games is Batman Arkham Origins. A game that went from preproduction to retail in around a year.

[@xtraGeona]

I'm probably late to the party, but I'm really enjoying this new video format, with gameplay being used for demenstrations and examples, and the video cam for debates as well as just conversations. Good stuff guys!

[@pecoooooooooo]

Surprised you didn't mention Scott Pilgrim having a 5 month development time

[@hra_Najimi99]

Or Styx: Shards of Darkness having a 6 month development time.

[@jajasking9652]

Or a lot of the ratchet and clank games, releasing yearly, until 2009, with crack in time, having very little time ( yet considerated as one of, if not the best of the series ) And ratchet and clank Nexus straight Up had only 6 months, which is why It ended Up being such a short game

[@AuzzieDonkey]

Very enjoyable video format, would very happily see another one like these again.

[@X2011racer]

The Legend of Spyro was notorious for having short development times for its sequels. The Eternal Night was only given about a year of development, hence why assets from A New Beginning were carried over; some modified for story reasons such as the Temple at night, and some completely unused, such as Cynder's textures from ANB. Dawn of the Dragon was developed in half a year, and this was all because Sierra dropped Krome Studios halfway in development and Estranges Libellés was brought in to restart development from scratch using the Arthur and the Invisibles engine. Both games came out playable, but not without their flaws. DOTD also has entire concepts scrapped, alongside an entire cutscene between Burned Lands and Floating Islands cut during production.

[@queencancerous5332]

All 3 of those games are such trash

[@paxhumana2015]

@@queencancerous5332 , ironically spoken by someone that has your username.

[@RnA.2]

I'll also add to that New Vegas bit that Obsidian, around at that time, did have a good bit of the staff from Interplay Productions (aka the pre-Bethesda Fallout's devs). It explains why they stuck to the canon of the older games and why it also felt like they knew how to make a roleplaying game, especially within the universe of Fallout.

[@coltonwilkie241]

If Interplay knew what they were doing years before New Vegas came out they would still own the franchise. 💀

[@RnA.2]

@@coltonwilkie241 I mean they would've still existed too lol, but alot of RPGs in the early 2000s and late 90s didn't do too well. Some classics, some works of the time, it isn't crazy that they prolly just weren't a game people wanted to play. Mind you, gaming was not as huge then as it is now though. If you were a niche game in the industry, goodness you really weren't making as much rip. Either way, I won't disagree that the publisher of the OG Fallouts just didn't know what they were doing, why they aren't around anymore, still doesn't change any game's quality ofc though.

[@YaBoiJosid]

love the ending bits where y'all kinda go off the cuff and just chill! really like this channel seems like two dudes just having a good time discussing gaming history.

[@Pēm̐cā]

devil may cry 2 took 6 months to make

[@almightylilith]

Obsidian games is also the team that made fallout 2, formerly called Black Isle

[@toddhoward4209]

Not anymore tho , most of that team departured after NV

[@illyerres5301]

Crazy how melee was created in 13 months and the games currently is still alive and played all around the world

[@elweondelasweas836]

Yes, but is still alive because the p3-d0 community. It's not exciting to know that it is still alive because of that.

[@bryanwharton6692]

I really am enjoying y’all’s new videos and the longer format!

[@AkimboSwords]

Great video but can we get some sound balancing? Maybe a hand over so we know know theres gonna be a louder and different voice? I've noticed it in too many of your videos, it ruins the videos flow. 12:23 Just some constructive criticism, both of you keep up the good work.

[@Zebrahhh]

I was there for the ODST launch night. My mom actually said yes to taking me - 13 at the time, and only a few people back from first in line, compared to the numerous amounts by the time the doors opened, makes this a core memory.

[@befunga]

I also loved sonic 2006. In a twisted and objectively wrong opinion sonic 2006 was my favorite sonic game of all time 😂

[@PapiTheMenace]

Agreed, I played sonic 06 as a kid and enjoyed and loved it despite the problems. P-06 shows off what 06 truly could’ve been. They had the right idea but executed terribly. We all know sonic 06 was so bad, but in an alternate better universe, sonic 07 would’ve been the best game ever

[@quebecorsumn5012]

Ong

[@Sup_nw85]

It had some elements I miss from the sonic series

[@befunga]

@@PapiTheMenace i played through that game so many times growing up

[@PapiTheMenace]

@@befunga haha me too, I remember being like 8 wanting to be a KZbinr and recording a let’s play of sonic 06 on my first android tablet 😭 the quality was awful

[@justinbriggs7560]

I'm glad you mentioned Fallout New Vegas and Halo ODST, two of my favorite games

[@butterccm]

To be fair a lack of time will either make teams flourish or crumble. Especially as games get larger and larger it’s harder and harder to flourish.

[@Wario_Guy]

A lot of people who have and even haven’t played GTA are like “Why can’t they just finish GTA 6?” This is why. From what we’ve seen of GTA 6 it is one of the most graphically impressive games ever. Same thing goes for New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Wonder. The New games had to be pushed out by a deadline. There was almost nothing new about it. Wonder wasn’t given a time limit. Very late in development they decided to ship it in October 2023. It turned out as one of the best Mario games of all time.

[@christianmaldonado9283]

I love the videos! I’d love so see more deep dives on the history of some games development 😊

[@AimlessStranger]

Yeah, I caught on to your channel late so I've been going back in time and watching slightly older ones... Man. You guys are my favorite thing on KZbin right now. You're my go to video when I eat dinner. lol I love what you're doing and I'm super glad I subscribed. Thank you for making these videos.

[@TheSwiftFX]

Great video! One thing that slightly bugged me (and doesn't detract from the rest of the video) is that you discuss how Bungie had a "special" culture with people who loved the game, immediately after reading a quote about a man having memory loss and giving his dog to a kennel for months in order to meet a deadline. I would absolutely say that is abuse of staff and not something quirky and admirable. Even if they weren't forced to work those hours, the leadership should have stepped in and prevented that.

[@nrg6245]

This channel is amazing and this type of content resonates with OG gamers like me and we get a lot of nostalgia out of videos like this. They get me through nights where I have nothing else to do

[@gligarguy4010]

Pokemon is interesting to talk about because is there any other game series whose media franchise kind of forces them to make a new game on such a rushed schedule? They can't slow down, because no new game = no new cards, anime, etc. People may get upset that the games come out too fast, but people get REALLY upset when the card game becomes stagnant because they can't reinvent it until a new generation happens in my experience. Similarly happens with Yugioh too in terms of cards.

[@MrDr_Jesus]

I definitely dig the content. Deep dives on almost anything is entertaining. I can't think of many creators that I subscribe to that can create Sub-Hour content and have me sitting thru till the end.

[@SCP-tn2ln]

39:40 as a developer and computer engineer, planning is extremely important, a bad planning can make that you have to scrap the entire project and start from scratch, planning and development are both important, the problem is the balance and the fact that some companies prefer to completely plan everything instead of doing some parts while you're working on the code, like, wtf is the point of designing and art when you don't even have a functional engine to begin with

[@popbrocks]

I was born the same day halo 2 was released. Exact day exact year.

[@mikejones-wr4ti]

“One of the biggest GameCube era games of all time” doesn’t make sense

[@iamhereblossom1588]

7:38. You think a developer having to kennel their dog for two months and sleeping in the office is “something special about Bungie culture”? You’ve got a strange view of the world.

[@minisnacks231]

these type of videos would be so boring but since it's you and your ideas, the video is so much more engaging and intersting

[@revysh0]

tbf i will give sledgehammer their flowers. they have been really communicative with feedback on bugs, glitches, exploits, balance. we've had more updates this month with this cod than the entire year last game.

[@midnightstrike3625]

I love listening to these long form videos while I'm at work. Keep up the great content!

[@MFPUNKY]

Love these vids! You guys have perfected the 'listen to while gaming' vids imo

[@SantiagoMonroy5]

You missed out on Crash Twinsanity man

[@kamiloalvarez5800]

it was in development since late 2001, when it was crash evolution, but then they restarted the whole thing and thats how crash twinsanity came out

[@proftregret6184]

I don't know why I love the royalty free music at the end of these. When they do the talky bit at the ends, idk if it's the trumpets but I jam to it and great opinions and odst was awesome.

[@tanmoymridha5002]

This video teaches us an important aspect. If you have a fixed goal, you can overcome all the obstacles that come with it. If you dont have a fixed goal, then no amount of saving can help you in the long run.

[@BasedCanadaMan]

Please do more of these I love the conversation. You guys have awesome synergy

[@Zeywerks]

I really like the style and format of the video!

[@quandale_dingle7585]

Really enjoy these longer format videos, I always watch the entire video from start to finish👍🏾

[@colefitzpatrick8431]

Big Mega Man fan here - one year for Christmas I got the MM25 art book, and in it on the page for Mega Man 7, Keiji Inafune casually drops that the game was made in three months. I was in middle school or high school at the time, and I did not know that was physically possible to make a game that quickly.

[@FabledThunder]

I honestly didn’t know that ODST had a tight schedule

[@juliomatos37]

5:56 wtf is that?

[@StarkiiL]

the thing with pokemon is that every new gen needs to match the release dates with the next anime season and the next set of TCG

[@kylebrandon4556]

These kind of videos are very nostalgic and keep you the good work

[@Chimpiontv]

Love the Format and topics. Had no idea some of these great games were rushed like that

[@moonlightxlines]

I've never been someone to enjoy long videos, but I can have one of these videos while I'm just laying down or playing Xbox and I enjoy it! Keep the great content up.

[@realDesertLad]

When talking about Fallout New Vegas you forgot to mention the guys at Obsidian at the time WERE the original Fallout Creators and they use their original ideas for their Fallout 3 as the base for Fallout New Vegas

[@angrydad678]

tomb raider 2, 3, 4, and 5 had short development times i believe it was around 8-9 months per game.

[@chetsidewinder5519]

Rocket sloth your tone changed drastically when talking from call of duty to halo 2, I understand that halo doesn’t generate as much revenue as it once did, but there are still a ton of people who would appreciate some halo content every now and then, keep up the good work!

[@Chewsiffer18]

Really enjoyed the format, would love to see more

[@Rashek980]

i like this format, it remembers me to the times that i talk to my best friend about this stuff, and he is a videogame journalist,

[@luciaargueta6013]

I love are youre videos guys great job. I love that your videos arent short and are deep dives.

[@QuillC]

Somehow this is the first video from your channel I've ever come across (you're doing something right considering I was recommended a newly uploaded vid from a channel I've never heard of 👍), but I really dig the style, will be sticking around 👋

[@StageRight123]

I just discovered the channel about a month ago myself. Very good content.

[@jeremybowers3181]

Very cool with the deep dive vids, more is needed guys.

[@corkben]

Assassin's Creed Brotherhood is another case where it started life as a DLC for Assassin's Creed II, got scaled up to a full game released within a year, and then went on to be critically acclaimed. Most people even tend to prefer Brotherhood

[@gavincooper1700]

I love the podcast style video this is towards the end

[@MrAnimeFan4Eva]

So this reminds me of what i think miyamoto said once "a delayed gamed will be good eventually a rush game will be bad forever" dont know if this works in context here but i kept thinking about it

[@shlakenjake]

If memory serves, Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus was developed in 9 months or so to meet holiday deadlines. The game is everything that Abe's Oddysee is, but more. Fantastic sequel and a testament to how skilled Oddworld Inhabitants is.

[@ABlueElitefromHaloCE]

In a perfect world, Obsidian got all the time they needed/wanted to make New Vegas. As amazing as the game is, it always feels like a “what could have been” even though it’s one of my favorite games.

[@coltonwilkie241]

They were given all the time they wanted though. Higher ups in Obsidian have already stated they chose the time they were given. Bethesda wasn't forcing them to make the game in that short of a time period.

[@ABlueElitefromHaloCE]

@@coltonwilkie241 initially but by the end they had a lot more planned they had to scrap to get it to launch date

[@MikesGhost_]

More deep dives! i love those type of videos and i love how you guys are dipping your toes into it!

[@JaceFaceLuxe]

i love these type of longform videos please more :))

[@chuckyzrevenge]

Removing story mode from a game and not working on that before any other game mode is insane

[@nprocopi1231]

23:48 it gets worse than Crash 3 in 10 months, their next project was CTR in 8 months with only half the team, while the other half was on Jak

[@YarugumaSou]

If I had a nickel every time a third remake that is basically a glorified DLC with tons of contents being cut was rushed out and sold at full price to promote its multiplayer I would have two nickels. For now it isn't a lot but I'm sure it won't only happen twice.

[@acedfirefist]

Love this format. My wife has been really enjoying the AC videos too on the other rocket channel

[@BungieStudios]

I love how Saints Row IV hid bugs behind a glitchy alien simulator. Very smart.

[@jaxsonharper9091]

18:30 Can we talk about the fact that the cover arts are both the same according to Google?

[@CranialExtractor]

38:50 I found a game blocking glitch in that game in a mission and just put it down.... have never picked it up since. It was so trash, I had the best weapons after a couple missions.

[@nelsonr12]

When you were talking about games with long development times but had to crunch in a short amount of time, one game I think of was Bioshock Infinite. The game was in development for nearly 4 years, with very little progress to show for it. So they had to bring in a whole new team of new developers, including some of the team who worked on Bioshock 2, to rush the game out by 2013. As a result, alot of ideas had to be cut from the game.

[@brandonsimoncini]

“People forget about Riptide when talking about Dead Island games.” *Escape Dead Island cries in the corner*

[@joshualinsley4000]

You should do games with the longest production cycle

[@blinkq_530]

7 days to die

[@PongoDaMan]

yall are like is whang met what happun. Such a beautiful combo! keep it up guys, heres to 300k

[@ricniks4619]

1:34 Yeah that’s how I would describe every Sledgehammer & Infinity War COD after MW3

[@fitch_]

pls more. loving these kind of vids

[@IrregularFish]

Halo 2 is what happens when a company has incredible passion and love for their project and refuses to put out a piece of crap just to make a buck

[@CranialExtractor]

13:45 My friend bought me madden 12? or something way back when... and when he saw me playing it he apologized saying I'm sorry I bought you a game you already have LOL

[@trelard]

I was wondering how they could have fucked up so badly with an already established remake franchise. Then you mentioned the development time, and it all makes sense.

[@JustinR150]

The Longshot is literally Andre Bishop if he pursued football

[@Oltheboll]

The Xbox 360 and Ps3 Versions Of Skylanders Spyros Adventure was made in Two months because it was originally going to be a exclusive to the Wii but Nintendo declined the offer so Taiwanese game developer X-pec had Two Months to port it to Xbox and PlayStation

[@StudioZenniverse]

Using a previous game as a baseline is actually a smart idea. You already made the engine and assets, now you can improve on what you did the first time and give people more of what they loved. Doom Eternal is practically Doom 2016 with a grappling hook yet it's arguably better than the first.

[@papasalvo]

Bro masahiro is so insane this man is so good at his game in order to test it he plays using 2 controllers 1 in each hand because hes so damn good the only person who can challenge him is himself

[@Comet9000.]

One example I'm suprised you didn't mention was the early ratchet and clank games, *especially* Up your arsenal. While they're thankfully some of the few games under these conditions that actually turned out well, there were sacrifices that had to be made.

[@timeplayparadox]

Some companies can handle the pressure of the being rushed into developing. Others try to handle it and just don’t see the burning wreck in front of them

[@blunaa943]

Madden, NFS, fifa, all of them get basically re-released every year. And they all from EA💀

[@Addonzs]

Some of these games became hits with being rushed

[@YoungMrBlue]

26:15 ironic considering that they always release in an unfinished state with little to no gameplay changes since Fallout 3

[@SkinnyFG]

Ima be honest with you, that wide fish-eye lens is doing no justice for you