Games Workshop Just Killed My DREAM Army

[@CassyCat4]

If only a company was making fully modular units with simplified rules that fit on oooh lets say one page.....

[@Dack24]

Kind of a weird world when 3d printed models are genuinely looking more compelling than the GW alternative.

[@settispaghetti2273]

Ive printed more minis than ive ever bought in plastic kits. Im subbed to a bunch of creators, so i have hundreds of gigabytes of stls. Its truly a strange feeling being able to create a whole new army of minis, in only a few days an 25 euros worth of resin. Now im giving away piles and piles of minis that i will never find time to paint. Did wargaming just reach the post-scarcity future of star trek?

[@tommo9757]

@@settispaghetti2273 phew. I thought it was just me hoarding STL's 🤣

[@shanepatrick4534]

Will all of the options you have and the sheer variety as well as the ability to modify them to a certain extent. With the new 8k printers 3D printing is the future of mini wargaming.

[@Marthe535]

I use both like i take the best of GW miniatures and for the bad ones i take STL’s i think its a good way

[@SergeyWaytov]

And you know whats most funny? There's sizable amount of "players" who'd diss old games or something less that Top Tier Ultra Graphics solely for reason of it not being super-ultra-high graphics levels, even if rest of the game is good

[@demonprinceofkhorne]

I definitely found this to be the case with 9th edition. Building those models that allegedly didn't need glue was incredibly hard with these exact fits. Meanwhile building older models with more customization was also just easier because the bits were designed for easier building

[@demon1103]

Yeah, noticed this as well. not to mention they were (at least for me) easier to paint. I like to paint in subassembly, but that's a lot harder to do with some of the newer kits. Can't really separate them in the process if the arm is preattached to half the torso...which is also preattached to the head.... *sigh* *brrrrrrrr noises*

[@Enja_Near]

Push Fit seems like it was designed for spehs muhreens and an afterthought for other factions.

[@nameisbad]

God no, this is ridiculous, the old old models of fantasy and 40k are hilarious hard to build. Never have I been so annoyed and thrown away a project than the old guardians and the old grave guard. The newer normal build are easy tho there are some exceptionally hard to build ones. Easy to build models were trash, as of the dominion box tho they aren't that bad, between modern build and modern easy to build i'd go for either, both have their pros and cons.

[@kamerionsmith4551]

@@nameisbad and then you have orks, which were hilariously easy to build and customize. And don't really have much less detail than the shitty monopose kit

[@nameisbad]

@@kamerionsmith4551 the newer orks and the orks before them weren't that bad to build tho, and that's one model. There's plenty of horror stories of a process that some used to like but most hate from the old warhammer fantasy days where plastic glue wasn't an option and superglue was almost mandatory to save sanity. Modern models by GW are easy to build, outside some of the crazy ones like that one necron character szeras or some shit. I'd still take that over those damned piece of shit grave guard that were the most unfun building experience I ever had. Only fucking models I ever built that have ever fallen apart post being built are those old shitty models. And while I love customisability of models, majority of those old models had two options and looked generic af no matter what you did. There comes a price for gorgeous models, one's with character and shit. Let's not pretend this crap isn't just something we nitpick because absolutely want to find reasons to shit on GW because it's a shit company that's honestly deserving of it. Pretty much all of infinity models and malifaux models are monopose and no one gives a flying fuck. To be fair majority of the issues of GW being absolute dicks is people who bitch about shit yet don't stop buying and playing their shit, I know it's the elephant in the room but I've never met a more troubled, weak willed, low skill community than the GW one. GW could bend you all over backwards and take you forceably from behind and you'll bitch about it rather than actually do something about it. I think that the person who made this video is rather awesome, but let's be real, between saying they won't buy GW shit and now they have done so, it's that weak willed crap that has kept GW in business so long even tho their rules are crap, and their don't give a damn about their community. At this stage, it's on you, not them.

[@tommo9757]

I remember talking to Rick Priestley at the 1985 Dragonmeet in Birmingham. He said to me that Warhammer (fantasy) was invented so that people had something to do with their mini's. He said they invented Chaos because a lot of the existing mini's didn't fit into the standard fantasy tropes. Funny what you remember 🤣

[@shanepatrick4534]

Mono Pose is the future of GW. It forces you to buy add ons and it ensures that everyone's armies look the same. This makes printed armies very obvious, GW wants those that make their own armies to be noticed and (they hope) ostracized.

[@josephskiles]

Can't have creativity getting in the way can we? I get the feeling some tournament organizer wrote Gdubs a letter complaining about players making things harder to follow because there was too much variety. Or the heads saying " players are complaining constantly about balancing issues, so we will make them take certain load outs". Hey, with the massive rules bloat of 40k and AOS you still have a way of making your army kind of different, if in doing so you want to go with the most illogical army possible that is.

[@kamerionsmith4551]

It's an absolute joke how many posts of painted monopose miniatures make everyone look like they have the exact same army with different colors, and thr irony of "but the models are more dynamic!" I have a hunch gw shills have no idea what the word dynamic means. I have OrkS and old chaos space marines that I'm 90% sure nobody has replicatedand posed the exact same way. And if they have its super rare

[@josephskiles]

@@kamerionsmith4551 yeah every time I peek into a white dwarf magazine at the front no matter how good the paint job I just feel like I've seen the same thing a thousand times before

[@aaronjex7943]

A games workshop manager told me that GW is trying to discourage people from converting, they want to focus on the game, they do not sell green stuff anymore for that reason. Children are their main demographic target audience, we are old enough to do what we want.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

I am not even wargaming, I am just a massive Wh40k nerd who happens to paint miniatures and make dioramas as one of his hobbies. And there is simply no reason to buy GW models, because from my perspective, buying plastic models that cost more than their own weight in silver would be a clear sign of insanity. And this mono pose thing is just another reason not to do it. Just bought an amazing set of post-apocalypse themed STLs from Humblebundle, more than 100 models and model sets, figurines, tons of landscape parts, buildings and whatnot. There are several sets of soldiers, fighters etc. and some sets are almost 2 Gb in size, which is kind of insane, due to the variety offered. Different bodies in many poses, arms, legs, heads, everything a man making dioramas can wish for. Why would I spend insance amounts of money for various sets of figurines, where all figurines in a set have the same pose, and kitbash them, only to get the three or four poses I want or need? I would _love_ though to get my hands on some of those old diecast metal models.

[@benweinberg3819]

Completely agree. I also suspect the monopose models are to keep sales in house. "3rd party bits for arms, heads, legs are less attractive when you have to chop up the model's weird anatomy to use them right? Better stick to Daddy Games Workshop's 'premium' products" I love to do kitbashing and minor tweaks to make my models feel like my own--and I have yet to paint most of my armies fully because they're still in assembly limbo

[@maevethefox5912]

This makes me think about an old Word Bearer army I actually wrote a webseries of battle reports on like 10 years ago. They'd go around to Imperial worlds that were under attack from Xenos and drop in and be like "Hey space marines are here to save you!" and then "recruit" the people they save for a great crusade and leave behind a "Chaplain" to update the religious doctrine. And the Imperials just bought it. Great times. ....Which also reminds me of how that whole army was converted and individualized, and the fact that you can't do that anymore has been a HUGE reason why I don't care so much about GW models anymore, the monopose situation is miserable.

[@DiscourseMinis]

That sounds awesome! I really like that lore :D

[@richardwales9674]

2nd that. I've always liked Alpha Legion for that kind of flexibility. Some are noticeably Chaos some aren't. It gives you a lot of options for manipulating people away from the 'Dark Side'.

[@kamerionsmith4551]

The old chaos battle box gave you all the torsos, legs and heads to make some CRAZY unique space marines. Just in the box. Used all the possessed bits to make the entire box into mutated space marine word bearers. It really, really sucks to know that era is gone

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

It's actually really funny how counterproductive it is that the Imperium is trying to prevent chaos cults while at the same time not telling them what Chaos looks like.

[@josephskiles]

The hypocrisy of the corpse God knows no bounds, there are no good guys in 40k..... unless you count the Orks, they just wake up every day living the equivalent of orky paradise as long as they have something to krump

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

It's more "report anything that isn't us", if you did know what chaos is you'd be suspect. Yes the Imperium is paranoid on a whole other level

[@WardudeProxies]

Inquisitor: "Alright, we have an uptick of chaos/genestealer cult uprisings. How shall we stop them?" Adept A: "Send in the Adepta Soroitas to kill the heretics." Adept B: "Exterminatus!" Adept C: "How about we tell everyone about the warning signs of these cults being set up?" Inquisitor: 😡 *Adept C gets thrown out the airlock*

[@josephskiles]

@@WardudeProxies all that for just wanting footwear

[@samuelrodriguez9801]

@@WardudeProxies exactly!

[@Fliss317]

You're right and you should say it. Monopose models in hard plastic defeat the point of hard plastic and are only suitable for something like Napoleonics or Seven Years' War, where having 500 soldiers that look almost identical is the point.

[@TylerProvick]

Kitbashing as the only form of customization, and the way it is often presented by GW, is incredibly expensive. People are taking 2 $50 kits and combining them to make 1 $100 model.

[@drsh0ckalu]

or 10/20 distinct models. xD Depends on the intention of the hobbyist.

[@janczaplinski658]

And here I am, literally creating characters from trash bits

[@hyperbolehyde]

$45 for a single sprue of mono-pose infantry?!? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

[@yagsipcc287]

If you listen closely you will hear an army of Brrrrrrr

[@demon1103]

Oh no!!! Whatever shall we do......*brrrrrr noises*

[@alankelly1001]

And then there were the bad old days when you had to build your whole army from two poses of metal minis.

[@femmecactus4630]

It’s funny that “you can kitbash them” is seen as an argument for monopose. It’s like saying “the car’s great if you replace the transmission”

[@justincrawford5992]

I have a couple project cars kicking around, so I can understand that.

[@kateadams5574]

"you can kitbash them" is a strong argument to discontinue the box and go back to the drawing board because we've already got Corpse Grinders and the Warcry warbands

[@mrrselfdestruction1077]

I miss game manuals. I use to read them on my way home from the store.

[@DiscourseMinis]

yeeeah :D I loved it!

[@Furzkampfbomber]

I have still some of manuals from the Amiga 500 games I've bought. The manual for F-19 Stealth Fighter did not only come with tons of technical data and blueprints, it also came with a history of the Cold War and the history and the doctrines behind the planes and weapon systems in the game and a lecture about modern air combat. I am also quite sure that after carefully reading the manual, I am at least theoretically capable of flying one of those planes. Battle Isle: Historly Line 1914-18 also comes with a history of WW1 and with detailed technical and historical info about the military branches, planes, tanks, vehicles and arms used in the game. Good times.

[@pedrobastos8132]

Wargames Atlantic has a really cool box called Cannon Fodder that you can use: 30 disposable randos for 35 bucks that can be built and painted as industrial workers, convicts, conscripts, so on and so forth. Just add some chaosy bits and you're good to go!

[@sasserine]

There's separate boxes of male and female, for double the pose options. Or for that 'Prisoner: Cell Block H' homage.

[@crimsonsphinx]

Chaos cultists should be the main chaos army. Or at least a separate codex, where chaos marines are available only as elite squads and HQs (but not compulsory)

[@sasserine]

I feel the same about Chaos fantasy armies. The old lore had armies of tribesmen, with an occasional one elevated to Chaos Warriorhood, who ought to be a unit champion or hero, unless their mutations were too extreme. But the later army lists separated the Marauders and Warriors into homogenous units, and removed the options for having non-ascended human heroes and lords. There's a picture in the Bretonnia book, of a knight fighting a huge beast of a Norscan lord, and my first thought was that opponent didn't exist in the game.

[@egnaroelprup]

This was the old lost and the damned list from codex eye of terror (it had other lists for other factions too) Mutants, renegade guard, chaos spawn, and a small amount of chaos marines The hq choice was basically just a csm sarge The mutants had additional stat flavours for various kinds of mutants Even came with a reprinted white dwarf article about making your own mutants, you can find a fuzzy resolution version of the original mutant article online but I mean if you can find a hard copy do so It's a wonderful piece of gw history we seem ever more likely to never get back

[@stuartchantler5333]

Chaos Cultists are definitely deserving of their own codex and I'm surprised GW still hasn't done it. I still remember how excited everyone was when the first proper Chaos codex came out

[@verathorn1556]

As a kitbasher I vastly prefer multi part posable miniatures. Just because I can sculpt muscles to bled parts doesn't mean I want to.

[@SymbioteMullet]

Remember when Dark Eldar first appeared back in 3rd edition? There was a single warrior in a blister pack on the front of the relevant issue of white dwarf. All four limbs, the head, the weapons, and multiple greeblings were separate, in the package, in plastic, allowing you to custom build your warrior any way you wanted. The boxes of warriors on sale at the time all had that level of complexity. That issue of white dwarf the free model came on had a whole section on cool ways to customise your free dark eldar model, some talk about how this was the wave of the future, how all warhams were going to be this cool all the time in the future once they'd refreshed all the lines. We're in the future now That dream has died.

[@awerges2205]

Yeah, I totally agree. The older ork kit didn't even need instructions for how to put things together because it was obvious where the arms and heads go. So they've created a situation where they absolutely must include written instructions just to build the models they are putting out. Also, 40k vehicles have a magnetization problem as a symptom of a rules bloat problem. They can either simplify the rules so that some options are redundant or include magnet slots in future releases, of which they've done neither.

[@Bluecho4]

I mean obviously the intent from GW is that if you want vehicles that have different loadouts, you should buy a whole other kit. Because that's practical for most hobbyists! /s

[@codykrueger796]

Are the old ones still available at all?

[@rangda_prime]

Posing and building minis is one of the things that's improved for me immensely - after switching to 3D printing. I simply love sitting with various easy to use CAD programs, cutting and sticking parts of different digital kits together. Not only is the sheer variety of options basically endless, you can also save every single kit-bash you make without having "used up" its constituent parts. At this point I don't see any point in buying GW kits for myself ever again. Especially not any of the new monopose ones.

[@Bluecho4]

Also, every model kitbashed digitally is actually TWO models, when you consider the wonders of mirroring the model.

[@starnostras]

100%. I never even realised until you laid it out. I used to love putting together my Space Wolves back in the day. Now when I'm thinking about building kits, I just want it to be over and paintable.

[@janrei7292]

Absolutely agree. Monopause is really hampering the imagination in what is supposed to be a creative process. Hence, here I am with my Drukhari, where you can mash almost all units together, in all the dope poses, and sometimes even ending up with more models than you bought. Man I love Drukhari models for their customizability.

[@DiscourseMinis]

Yes! The Drukhari are a perfect blend of dynamic looking models with poseability!

[@thra-x1855]

hell even if you have the skills, not everyone has the time to convert whole armies.

[@DiscourseMinis]

i certainly do not lol

[@dungeonsanddobbers2683]

I'm old enough to remember when GW released the plastics for Space Marines, Catachan, Eldar Guardians, and Khorne Berzerkers. WD issues were filled with articles on what you could do with these kits, with the team gushing over how the poseability of the minis allowed them to do all sorts of cool things (examples being a marine with a missile launcher, kneeling and firing, with cotton wool and wire used to show the missile launching, or a Khorne Berzerker with a tongue made of green-stuff, licking blood from a knife). By contrast, I have yet to see a single one of the monopose minis GW have been putting out since the early 10's show a _single_ piece of imagination in the design of their poses. tl;dr multi-part kits allow hobbyists to express their creativity in ways beyond the colour of paint they use to put on a mini

[@chrisgoodier6825]

I used to love reading computer game manuals - the lore, unit descriptions, weapons descriptions, etc. It added so much to the gaming experience! Man, I’m so old!

[@DiscourseMinis]

I loved it too Chris!!!

[@cjlewis367]

This is one of the major issues I have with poxwalkers as well, but at least they have all their wargear. These models are missing so much, even without taking the monopose aspect into account. Really wish we’d get a Cadian Trooper style cultist kit at the very least

[@sardugreyjoy9342]

When I'm doubt skull it out.

[@orcbrand]

why not just use brood brothers? genestealer cult cadians don't look all that far off from chaos cultists. In fact I just used them to make chaos cultists myself.

[@Karlmakesstuff]

One thing that always weirded me out was how uniform the chaos units are, both in 40k and fantasy battles. But 10 monopose models really takes the p.

[@Karlmakesstuff]

@Indigo Rodent didn't use to be like that way in realms of chaos and slaves to darkness, but that's before even my time.

[@markwatson8714]

I remember building a Skaven army back in the early nineties back when all they had were the monopose plastic clanrats. Literally monopose, it was just the exact same model. Though of course back then you got about twenty of them for less than a tenner.

[@rangda_prime]

Isn't it weird how with all the tech improvements we've gotten, GW figure design has managed to go backwards? If I wanted monopose armies, I'd buy more 1970s 15mm Minifigs...

[@albundy5492]

@@rangda_prime kinda like society

[@steve6135]

The final straw for me with 40K was when they got rid of the renegade chapters of CSM. I got into 40K and the CSM through the Crimson Slaughter. I loved their haunted quirk and their lore. Then they got pushed to the side, but I kept with it. Now if you’re not part of the original chaos chapters you don’t exist. At that point I just walked away from 40K and put up all my armies on eBay. There were lots of other reasons, but that was the final straw for me.

[@ge9367]

You just need to buy a new army. Just like replacing all your firstborn marines with the new lame ones.

[@nwttp]

Doing away with chaos lord mounts did it for me. There are little to no customization options anymore.

[@Rich0029]

When the 3rd edition chaos marine codex was replaced in 4th they moved away from the legions and towards war bands and people on forums disliked it and some liked it now they’ve moved back to legions and the same complaints just the opposite way round one day they might be able to please both camps.

[@jpjp3486]

So renegade chapters no longer exist in the lore? How have they explained that?

[@larsetre0005]

Monopose models? Might as well 3D print them. The whole point of the assembly process is to customize and make all those little decisions Also, why lock away a cultist/renegade guard army behind a stupid rule? Something people have been dreaming of FOR YEARS

[@TheParrotTeacher]

They want you to buy the "Cultist warband" too for the special weapons which comes in lots of 8 -_-. So either way you're being upsold and have to buy multiples. So basically you have to spend a fortune to build anything and everything will look basically the same. Typical GW...

[@trolleymouse]

I've done the maths. A kit with five compatible options for heads, torsos, gun arms, melee arms, and legs can be assembled such that you can have 125 models where no two share more than three parts, then paint them with five cloth colours such that no two models that share three parts have the same colour. Chaos could have been so simple ...

[@nicholassinnett2958]

It's a shame that this trend has hit Chaos, of all factions, so hard. I guess it's because of all the detail on the newer kits, but that just makes the monopose problem even more obvious. Feels so weird seeing these cultists come out after we just got the new plastic Contemptor. That one was more fun to assemble than anything else I've put together in a decade, literally every joint is poseable.

[@DiscourseMinis]

I heard as such! :D

[@Jagernaughty]

There's no excuse for that single sprue costing that much pissing money

[@bairdrew]

When i wanted to make cultists i went with necromunda - they're mostly monopose too but you are able to swap weapons out to a limited extent. I went with house Cawdor because i felt they went better with my Word bearers.

[@inquisitorlev8456]

The thing that irritates me about the newer models is the fragility of some of the details. Little wispy pieces of plastic that do not hold up well really irritate me, especially with such expensive kits.

[@bfderycke]

You made me laugh about the picture with the cactus. I am not brave enough! 😀

[@DiscourseMinis]

You can do it!

[@bfderycke]

@@DiscourseMinis you too 😆

[@DiluvianChronicles]

I Loved seeing some CDDA in there! had a lot of fun with that! also, this is definitely one more sign that 3D printing is going to become more and more dominant.

[@godzillarolls1613]

I love how out of the 8 chaos legions, 4 demonic forces, and dozens of subfactions. She fell for the Cultists, like not even Traitor Gaurdsman, specifically Cultists.

[@dshafterh3897]

So GW shattered your army building dreams? You would almost think they do it on purpose at this point.

[@highlordalcadizakyr1479]

i miss 4th edition of 40k, everything was poseable, rarely monopose

[@DiscourseMinis]

my favorite edition!

[@ekkovaan2261]

I have 1 tyranid kill team and a guard kill team in progress and let me tell you the one thing that immedeatly comes to my mind when i think about that team (besides a slight ping of shame at having stopped painting and building it "momentarily") is that one dude whos pose went from "what was that noise" to finding a dismember corpse covered in blood and some weird substance, then finding an audio log further inside talking about "the creature outside", his dead squad, lack of ammo, the one entrance, the lack of an alternate exit and the grenade as well as his plan to "nade the xeno bastard, bayonet charge and pray to the emperor for victory or salvation and a quick death should it come to that" with a slight tilt to the head and a grenade on the belt.

[@michaeldearden876]

This is like the exact opposite of what privateer press just announced. One warjack has every option already magnetized and swappable.

[@jeFFFairson]

As I'm still playing in V8 version (and not in competition) I'm really thinking of buying Anvil Industries minis for cultits. The models with gasmask are awesome and you buy bodies / heads / weapons in a really separate way. Thanks for your video ;)

[@DiscourseMinis]

i really love gas masks for some reaosn, they look so good

[@Lizisalizard]

I love your style of moderation. Keep the good work up. And finally accept the blessings of chaos :*

[@DiscourseMinis]

Thank you

[@thewildmage36]

I bought the old old Chaos Marauders kit from Age of Sigmar/Warhammer Fantasy for my cultists. You get twice the models for a few dollars less, plenty of options and combinations, posability, and you even get loads of fun bits for other chaos conversions, including 4 extra chaos shields, 8 chaos banners, and more. I magnetized mine so that I can change them out to me AoS Marauders, Chaos Cultists, or even traitor Guardsmen depending on their weapon loadouts.

[@Doomchild_]

I fell in love with CSM in 2014 and started work on my army in 2016 after months of theorycrafting and lorebuilding, I wanted an Emperor's Children army with a non-corrupted look with the occasional aesthetic chaos theming. I bought both the Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero boxes (great value). as soon as I started, rumors about new chaos models & rules and even new EC stuff made me hold of on working on it... it's now 2022 and I have yet to continue on it, because every release has drained my enthusiasm, new models have very distinctive looks but are all mono-pose, which makes them impossible to kitbash without going full Frankenstein... In fact, I wouldn't even call it kitbashing anymore, because you're not swapping out parts or altering poses anymore, you're cutting up models and having to sculpt them back together and you better not mess up because if you do... you get to start from scratch... with a brand new overpriced model... I tried making due with my existing bits (still trying to see if I can make a MKIII Marine with techpriest bits and a Mauler Fiend into a Lord Discordant...) I had such hopes for my army, but nothing GW has released has me excited anymore... at this point, they may as well sell their miniatures cast in one piece, assembly isn't even a fun part of the hobby with those new models... the new HH stuff looks kinda interesting, but I gave up trying to keep up with all the news a while ago... I've been disappointed one too many times... ps: still nothing for 40K EC & Slaanesh aside from the occasional page in the codex with... strategems >.>

[@Doomchild_]

@Ixymyxl yeah, I feel you... not to mention that we have no legion specific units, and both units that could be considered originating for EC are borderline discontinued... noise marines only exist as a resin upgrade kit and the sonic dreadnought just got folded into the helbrute as weapon options... EC really feels like it's due for a major overhaul/refresh which makes it hard to want to invest time, money and effort in an army... but it's been like that since 7th edition...

[@eskhaphey2873]

Yeah Games Workshop kit bashing doesn't exist anymore, it's all cannibalism of other models, basically sacrificing entire models to get a few pieces out of them :| GW miniatures are not worth the time or money for that

[@Doomchild_]

@Ixymyxl sadly I have no 3D printer and I'm not deep enough into the hobby to justify one.

[@sebishichen8968]

What would be great for me would be to create a cadian style blood pact box set, multi pose, many weapon options etc that might actually get me interested in a chaos faction

[@mybladeismylife]

I feel you on this. I have been building some storm vermin this week and though the kit is old the options and possibility to personalise each model far outweigh the slightly nicer dynamic poses of the modern monopose skaven kits like Spiteclaw's swarm and the new gutter/death runners. Gave one rat two halberds and a tilted head and he looks like an absolute lunatic. Having 3 of the exact same guy in a unit of 30 would look plain stupid. Though 3 guys all with different poses and 2 halberds each could be fun... hmmm

[@VompoVompatti]

I was very excited to get back into the hobby and decided to start a night lords warband. Sadly when I opened my first box of models and read a bit of the codex I noticed that all variety had been taken out from the models as well as codex units and charracters. Pretty much everything was better in 3rd edition when it comes to chaos.

[@evilgingerminiatures5820]

Spot on I had my GW phase about the time you started because I shared a house with two of my nephew's who where massively into it & the great thing was the fact you seldom got the same pose you could tweak them a lot just by combing the bits in different ways and even where you did have similar poses - Missile launcher marines it was easy to make it so none of them where exactly the same. You could even do minor kitbashing really easily & combine sets most of my marines where mixes of assault and tactical models for example it was great fun & very creative. Now ugh horrible unfun to build plastic tat and the thought of kit bashing even as a very experienced professional gives me the hebbies. Heck even seeing the words easy to assemble gives me feelings of dread why make building plastic figures as fun as doing head swaps on 15mm pewter ones or less.

[@evilstans]

The beauty of a chaos army is the customization. I hate monopse or limited part models. The old plague marins were like that (1 pose with just 1 arm being seperate). Even kit bash is hard at that point. I had the 3rd ed starter set and used every piece of the space marine and dark eldar to make chaos marines.

[@miniaturefun-guy]

Building old kits was so much fun. Open box, throw away the instructions, cut everything off the sprue and then get to work. And once you were done add the extra stuff to your bits box. Such simple unadulterated joy.

[@russelkblaik7527]

Buy the Neophyte Hybrids from the genestealer range and convert them into your chaos cultist army. Just some different heads here and there aswell as the removal of the cult icon. Then buy 1 or 2 of the hive scum from the necromunda range and add them to the mix for the more chaotic feel of them not being able to be equipped the same as the others. While not the cheapest way it still is an effective way too bulk up on cultist and add to the bits box for other projects.

[@tsuruchibranwen8579]

I feel really sorry for you, Discourse, getting your hopes up only to have em crushed. So glad i only play skrimish games anymore, i kinda never run into the duplicate model problem

[@olafsturlassonspoetrycorner]

Games Workshop had monopose Space Marines, Orks and Gretchin in the 2nd ed 40k starter set, when Necromunda was first released all the Gangs were Monopose Metals despite having the option for custom weapon loadouts. 3rd ed 40k had customisable Space Marines and Dark Eldar. I have enough monopose Chaos Cultists from the Dark Vengeance starter box to make 2 full squads, 1 with autoguns and 1 with auto pistols. My only issue is the removal of the Shotgun as an option for the Champion, the solution is to either count the Shotgun as an autogun/auto pistol depending on the squad weapons or use Necromunda models instead.

[@nameisbad]

I don't care if it's monopose so long as it looks good, arguing that it's a deal breaker is kind of over the top. Not being able to build all options etc is an absolutely valid point and gw suck for not doing so. Why they can't sell spares is fucking wild.

[@pa_gaming_dad2810]

Oh how I miss the original Dawn of War line of games. While Space Hulk was my first Introduction to GW, I spent countless hours playing Dawn of War...then Dawn of War II came out and the dream died.

[@animusvids]

I prefer better posed monopose minis over robotic hard on cocaine multipose minis. But on both ways, they should have all the weapons options available.

[@grimlock5990]

Still have my DOW1 manual. the opening cinematic is still one of the best in 40k video games.

[@kyleroberts3439]

im getting so sick and tired of the constant monopose figures especially as there always done with anything that is horde themed! like you, I love the concept of cultist army but this instantly puts me off. One of the way i was thinking of doing it was using some guard bits and genestealer bits and make renegade guard as cultists to get away from the monopose

[@Gudbjarten]

Couldn't agree more with you. This is why I only do Kill Teams and Mordheim gangs, where you can do with one of each sculpt, with GW miniatures nowadays. That is if I actually get any stuff done 😑😅 The prizing has gone completely of the rail to... Not really that related to the subject but... I have a huge collection of both old and new stuff. For years my hobby has been a self contained system where I sold old stuff to buy new stuff...or bought boxsets and sold off the stuff I didn't need. But the prize hikes have made it unsustainable. And sadly I don't have the kind of disposable income to justify putting "new money" into the system anymore.

[@graemerigg4029]

Stargrave/Frostgrave kits are interchangeable for kit building.

[@DiscourseMinis]

oh! I didn't know that actually, I've put together Frostgrave but not Stargrave stuff :D

[@nrgspike]

​ @Discourse Miniatures Yeah, most, if not all those kits North Star puts out can be mixed and matched. Stargrave Mercenaries + Frostgrave Cultists will probably give you something close to what you're after. The details are quite soft compared to GW but the cost per mini for hordes of disposable chaff is really quite attractive. I'm sure there's 3D printable options out there too, but sometimes it's just nice to clip out a sprue and stick some plastic together.

[@photonfartsqueeze6694]

I recently bought some Reaper Chronoscope minis and heavily converted them using GW bits for Stargrave. Most fun I’ve had building minis in years.

[@graemerigg4029]

@@DiscourseMinis There are new female mercenaries on the way.

[@vindicatorman8550]

I would say the best way to build a cultists force is by just sticking some spikes carved out of sprews and aswell as skulls on some guardsmen but i remembered the cadian infantry kit was 50 dollars so. Sorry discourse, you cant have good things.

[@arx1381]

I am using Necromunda Hive Scum, the Blackstone Fortress Cultists and a few old 2014 cultists as well as thinking adding House Cawdor to make up the rest. Keeping my cultists thinner than planned but may bring out my old ones made from the Forgeworld renegade guard.

[@mikewicked.x]

Since getting back into the hobby 5-6 years ago, and seeing how reliant GW are now on CAD sculpting, I've been wondering why they don't create mirrored sprues for the kits where we're expected to double, triple or quadruple up on for army scale games. Or hell, even Blood Bowl and Necromunda, where the boxes are 2 repeated sprues, why haven't they mirrored them, and given just the illusion of variety? I mean, I'm being partially rhetorical, I guess. I imagine logistics of ensuring each box contains 1 "left" and 1 "right" sprue would increase costs, and if I were much more cynical, I'd say that would just lead to what is now a 10 man sprue being reduced to 2x 5 man sprue, because the mirroring is "variety" (but mostly reducing sculptor fees) But yeah... As someone who bulks out 3D printed armies by mirror-flipping my STLs when I get to those duplications, I am just waiting for GW (and other sprue makers) to do the same.

[@robertsurtees2667]

Should be able to clip all the components off the sprues and assemble them any way you want without the instructions

[@anymajordude87]

The most fun I had was the plastic Mordheim kits back in the day, so many options with each pack, no wrong builds.

[@nrais76]

You get one box of the new cultists, the abyss dudes, then you get a bunch of Necromunda gangs, you get some Slaves to Darkness... and then you can even play in GW stores. If you don't mind, you hunt around third party models. Mantic especially, for some counts-as, has their GCPS that might make good traitor guardsmen ($35 for 20 rangers). And, like you mentioned, Wargames Atlantic. I'm actually planning to use Wargames Atlantic minis for all the infantry in my entire Astra Militarum army. Totally right there with you on the unenjoyability of modern GW model kits.

[@lurtz1986]

this is why printers go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[@xanthiades63]

I love kitbashing, but I absolutely agree. How much effort do I really want to put into 140 tiny cannon fodder cultists? And how much do I want to spend on the "Chaos Tax" for extra bits? Sometimes I do want to be able to open a box, put the model together, and just get it ready to play. A multipose cultist would be such a great improvement.

[@TheJoestewart]

Is that the store in Castle Court. I used to gaze longingly into their window and then run away when ever someone tried to take to me.

[@MrBanditoRazor]

Imma make a prediction: GW is going to start selling all prebuild models ala DND. Then pre painted models, ala DND. Then they will see a HIGHER priced set of models that are -not- painted and -not- mono posed.

[@BlizzAz]

I made my own cultists from a box of Frostgrave cultists and left over Imperial guard, Necromunda, and Gene Cult bits. Do they look like a bunch of extras from Fury Road? Not really, but I like them more because I did those. But then, I DO love to kitbash.

[@alexdoran527]

I've used Frostgrave Cultists and used spare IG rifles for weapons. I know its not great having to essentially kitbash a ton of basic troops but at least they look cool!

[@JayAndNightASMR]

Why I use age of sigmar models as proxies. They have so many cool troop options like using bloodreavers in a world eaters army as they're already khorne themed. And there are so many options to kitbash new stuff. I think that's why they gave them generic weapon options because they knew everyone would proxy out the actual models

[@noregr1173]

This, I used the chaos space marine kit and the old Zerker kit mixed with AoS bitz to convert up an army for my friend, the AoS line has alot of good Khorne kits

[@jossypoo]

"GW makes bad models because they expect you not to use them" Hot take

[@cyberware5323]

9:24 Just write your own army of renown. In Codex Custodes their are rules for running sisters of silence as an independent army. Probably this could be a starting point for homebrewing. 9:35 reminds me at plague marines, you want squads of ten and gw sells boxes with seven. XD

[@yagsipcc287]

My first into was 3rd edition. My friend got it for his birthday and we would play it all the time. We were pretty damn young as well ha I'm 31 he is 32 now.

[@ManuelOrtizification]

"fuck it, they'll still buy this shit." -GW probably. 😂

[@matthewjecelin8358]

This is why Im building and entirely 3D printed night lords army. The amount of kit bashing I have to do is insane. I may buy one or two boxes of chosen or possessed simply bc the models are pretty.

[@stevenwong9591]

The renegade traitor guard kit is actually pretty good, the extra arms are compatible with the regular guard kit and with a little cutting, you can do head swaps. There are also a ton of 3d print files out there for traitor guard and cultist if you are really serious about the project. The rules though are definitely lacking.

[@eldoriath1]

Honestly I've been thinking of doing a Lost and the Damned army of cultists and mutants using the GSC rules. Both factions are pretty similar in how I imagine how they should work and feel. If/when I do it it would probably be a passion project with a lot of conversions, kit bashing, some self sculpting and some 3D printed bits

[@Haroith]

It is simple! Cultists are regular troops with strict logistics system from standard factories. Maybe (I do not have any proofs) somewhere in the Eye of Terror the factory for cultists is named 'games workshop'.

[@blairbrendasmith7798]

What you do is wait for the blooded traitor guard killteam box sold separately from the moroch box set. Take imperial guard tanks and chaos them up. Use the guard codex rules but call them a renegade regiment. It would look super bad ass and give you that cultist army feel you want

[@Magnus9284]

If you don't mind your cultists not being mutated, the gangs from Necromunda are perfet to field as this type of unit. Oorlock fits with the Iron Warriors, Escher with Emperor's Children and Delaque fits with Word Bearers. I wanted to make a Chaos army based on the Renegades, meaning non mutated units and no daemons, but what killed it to to me was the nerf to the wargear. No more combiweapons, no more lightning claws. All of it traded for buffs to the daemonic units.

[@JamesSerapio]

Based on the kits in recent years, I feel like GW doesn't have many experienced toy designers on staff these days. Compare these to the engineered modularity of the Tyranid or Drukhari lines. At least the new Horus Heresy tanks seem to be engineered well with the sponson weapon designs

[@Furzkampfbomber]

Still have the DoW and Winter Assault boxes, with manuals and all that _and_ I am looking at the Dog Tags that came along with Winter Assault, which made _me_ fall in love with the Imperial Guard, right now, because they are still hanging from my book shelf.

[@jamestaylor3805]

Can we produce a community wide series of videos focused entirely on the original materials from GW that talked about making and customizing minituares on your own, developing whole new army rules for other sets of miniatures you want to bring in to the game, et cetera. Once apon a time it was quite explicit that this was game meant to be played how the people at the table decide to play it. A reminder to the community that a lot the moderns rules and concerns only matter in competitive or official settings. But at the end of the day, this is a "board game" with changing boards and pieces, and like all board games all that matters is the consensus at the table. Edit: Hard to hear reminder... the lore is just fluff created to sell a system. It is the system that matters. Think along the lines of DnD... the system is the backbone to hundreds of different sets of lore, because even games set in the same world will take different paths and generate new lore. If you feel confined by the system, then it is not a good system. If you feel confined by the lore, change that lore to suite you and your table.

[@jamestaylor3805]

With the new models coming out, I wrote an entirely new "Codex Astartes Novus Seclorum". The new secreted codex of the Astartes and wrote the lore to support a entirely new custom chapter who was created and sent into the distance of space to await the arrival of a new breed of space marines among the Empire, to then return with this new code of behavior and chapter architecture for the benefit of all chapters. But change is not reddily accepted... despite the Emperor's foresight to send them on this mission of isolation and patience. A friend creates a custom chapter with the lore that they created themselves by recruiting the few who remained uncorrupted when thier brothers fell to Chaos, the sparse survivors of the Imperiums skirmishes with Chaos, and have existed hidden among the cults of Chaos for millenia, slowly building their numbers and waiting for a chance to make meaningful moves against the evil surrounding them.

[@pawelw7516]

In the past there was a Dark Vengeance box with a lot of cultists. Also monopose but easier for customisation / kitbasking

[@seawurm]

If you're willing to use non-GW models, I suggest Wargames Atlantic. They have three different flavors of generic sci-fi troops that are extremely modular. And the prices are reasonable if you buy in bulk.

[@colinmorrison5119]

I finally started assembling the modern Bloodbowl models and have to say it's painstaking. It's not something you can do in a rush. It's a shame, because games like Bloodbowl would benefit enormously from poseable models. They throw in the odd alt head but that's about it. It's a near certainty GW models begin life in Zbrush btw. With services like Heroforge and TitanCraft, non-sculptors can pose minis in a browser, then download and print them. Now that I think of it, was a large part of the design of Space Marines (pauldrons are a clue) so they could be made from multipose plastics?

[@glennrinehart3336]

I miss the days of the black crusade, and the lost and damned army pdf. It was a dream come true for costum mods, and kit bashing

[@nicksurename5392]

TBH for chaos cultists, conversion is the main game. Necromunda models, Guard models, even AoS humans are all perfect fodder for various conversions for Cultists. The 10 man monopose box is pretty dissapointing though.

[@DirtPoorWargamer]

One of the many reasons I moved to 3d printing. I'm still hoping someone will eventually come along with something like HeroForge, but instead of buying printed models, you buy/sub to digital bit packs and print everything yourself. Pick your bits, pose your model, print it out in one piece at home. I'm aware that HeroForge technically has a subscription tier that allows you to print models yourself, but it looks like you're limited to downloading 5 models designed with the service per month. Needless to say, that isn't an acceptable limit for army printing.

[@alvarogalanmadrid9244]

Dear Discourse, I usually don’t interact on social media but dear oh dear… that cactus joke had me in tears… you little evil genius! I love your work, I really don’t think you’ve been told enough times. You’re a great communicator. Thanks for all your content!

[@nickjowett9925]

Something people may not be aware of with 3DResin printing is the ability to modify models before exporting as a print file. There is no reason, as it takes only a few slides of a guide or importing and fixing of details, to have any dulpicates with resin models. It does not even take trained skills. Select the head, turn it to the left with a slider bar, move it into the cavity on the model with your mouse, save.

[@BrokenRealms]

Absolutely agree, they need to go back to their old kits where it's torso, legs, head, arms, backpack all separate with the neat little bits and doodads to add flavor how you'd like. The monopose used to be just in things like boxed battle sets at a cheaper price while squad specific boxes weren't monopose and it felt like it was higher quality because you could actually, as you put it, have agency over your models. I miss those days.

[@terpdx]

Wanna feel young? I remember not only when video games came with books for manuals, but a game series called 'Ultima' which came with a legit cloth map. Open the box, and you had your 2 floppy disks for installing the game, the game manual, and a big, full-color map printed on actual cloth. If anyone did that now, it would come in a "Platinum Deluxe GOTY Collector's Edition" and sell for $200.

[@basstedson]

The other point about kitbashing is if they don't come with bits how are you supposed to maintain a bits box.

[@Dayton550]

As for “how many people are going to kit bash” I’m a guard player who plays necromunda PDF. Nearly every model aside from some tanks and sentinels is kit bashed the biggest bar is being afraid to try.

[@computair6920]

Gotta to love it when the "mere mortals" rule tells you about the countless hordes of chaos cultist that serve under Chaos Marines... and then proceed to forbid you to have more cultists than Chaos Marines in your army