Changing the firing order from 1-4-3-2 to 1-2-3-4 - what will happen?

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Garage 54

Garage 54

Күн бұрын

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@johnjelinek-g7b
@johnjelinek-g7b 11 ай бұрын
Anyone not aware of cam phasing characteristics will not be impressed, but to those of us that do, are extremely impressed with this outcome . That was a masterful job at making this little Lada fire up and run ... And pretty good taboot . There was no way you were going to do this without a lot of counter weight imbalances, but I am extremely impressed guys . :)
@jojohnson215
@jojohnson215 11 ай бұрын
I was thinking pretty much the same.
@ajl9491
@ajl9491 11 ай бұрын
​@@jojohnson215copycat
@whitemonkey7932
@whitemonkey7932 11 ай бұрын
​@@jojohnson215yes I said to myself just the other day....the phasing will be the issue.
@tinknal6449
@tinknal6449 11 ай бұрын
I've only got a rudimentary understanding and I'm impressed.
@RitaElaineHeltonBarker-uz4sz
@RitaElaineHeltonBarker-uz4sz 11 ай бұрын
Does this mean the cam is going to open the valves in the original firing order? While the pistons are all in the wrong place?
@TheMrDarius
@TheMrDarius 11 ай бұрын
Weld two lada engine blocks together to make a 90 degree V8 and modify the crank to be a crossplane. See where that takes you.
@DJ2226
@DJ2226 11 ай бұрын
I would like to see an I8 actually. It sounds close enough to a V8 and would likely be easier to pull off albeit harder to fit in a car. They made an I6 this way at one point.
@SIR_MNBEN
@SIR_MNBEN 11 ай бұрын
@@DJ2226they have also welded 4 engines together to make an i16
@gabrielv.4358
@gabrielv.4358 11 ай бұрын
yessssssssssssss
@Altezza1999
@Altezza1999 11 ай бұрын
Pretty sure this is what Triumph did with the Stag.
@jimsworthow531
@jimsworthow531 11 ай бұрын
They would have to make a new V8 crankshaft. They should weld 2 blocks in a V8 conflagration. but combine engines after welding with 2 planetary ans 1 sun gear like the old Chrysler multi bank engines. They could use both engine and cams.
@JohnJaggerJack
@JohnJaggerJack 11 ай бұрын
Garage 54 doing more work on ladas than Lada's R&D department.
@juhajuntunen7866
@juhajuntunen7866 11 ай бұрын
Not to do list, engineers taking notes furiously.
@Numer1Polak
@Numer1Polak 11 ай бұрын
Most of ladas r&d was set on how to cheapen down fiats r&d
@leogreck9984
@leogreck9984 11 ай бұрын
Bold of you to assume Lada has a r&d department.
@CtrlAltFumble
@CtrlAltFumble 11 ай бұрын
They had one? lol
@syitiger9072
@syitiger9072 10 ай бұрын
Plot twist garage 54 is ladas r&d facility
@klyddmeisters
@klyddmeisters 11 ай бұрын
you should make a big bang engine. ignite on 1+4 at the same time, turn 180 degree and ignite 2+3, turn 360 degree.
@shaneeslick
@shaneeslick 11 ай бұрын
Yeah that would be cool too
@ouch1011
@ouch1011 11 ай бұрын
I think they’ve done this before? Either way, it makes the engine really hard to start (because 2 cylinders are building compression and hitting tdc at the same time) and it doesn’t want to idle for the same reason and the fact that it only gets one firing impulse per complete crankshaft rotation.
@hank1556
@hank1556 11 ай бұрын
Or all 4 at once
@BTP62
@BTP62 11 ай бұрын
I believe that might sound like a triumph twin?
@calvinwright5040
@calvinwright5040 11 ай бұрын
Harley Davidson mod!
@twocvbloke
@twocvbloke 11 ай бұрын
The vibration issue is also part of the nature of having this setup, as you have weight shifting from end to end depending on the stroke of 1&3 and 2&4 which upsets the balance, so one pair up, the front lifts with inertia & rear drops, then the other pair comes up and the inertia shifts so front drops and rear lifts, this is why most multi-cylinder engines are set up the way they are, keeping it all in balance... :)
@cedriclynch
@cedriclynch 11 ай бұрын
With the normal arrangement where the middle two pistons move in the opposite direction to the end two pistons, the rocking couple produced by the front two cylinders cancels out the rocking couple of the rear cylinders. With the 1,2,3,4 firing order the two rocking couples add together instead of cancelling each other out. This is the cause of the increased vibration.
@miguelgameiro8063
@miguelgameiro8063 11 ай бұрын
@@cedriclynchcan’t we use offset weights on the flywheel to fix that
@cedriclynch
@cedriclynch 11 ай бұрын
@@miguelgameiro8063 The problem is that the unbalanced force is rotating in the opposite direction to the rotation of the crankshaft. It can be balanced with a weighted shaft geared to turn in the opposite direction; this is quite a common practice in motorcycle engines and has been used in some car engines such as the Ford V4 of the 1960s and 70s. This has a crankshaft with four throws so as to give equal 180 degree firing intervals, giving also a mechanical imbalance that could only be corrected by the use of a weighted shaft turning in the opposite direction.
@miguelgameiro8063
@miguelgameiro8063 11 ай бұрын
@@cedriclynch balancing shafts fix this ? Or am I getting this wrong?
@cedriclynch
@cedriclynch 11 ай бұрын
@@miguelgameiro8063 Yes, it is possible to fix almost any balance problem with a balancing shaft (or sometimes two shafts) turning in the opposite direction to the crankshaft. There is another problem that affects an inline four-cylinder engine because the connecting rods are of finite length and so the acceleration of the pistons is greater at the top of the stroke than it is at the bottom. Most makers overcome this by using rubber mounts, but one or two have added two weighted balance shafts turning in opposite directions to each other at twice the speed of the crankshaft.
@IvyMike.
@IvyMike. 11 ай бұрын
And another awesome upload from Garage 54, thank you fellas. And thank you BMI Russian for the voice over and translation, you rock!
@thatguyalex2835
@thatguyalex2835 11 ай бұрын
You know what is more awesome? The fact that these Lada motors still exist and work in 2024. :) In a hypothetical doomsday scenario, Lada Nivas, Rivas, Toyota Camrys, Honda Civics/Accords and Buick Centurys will be the only cars on the road in the future with a few Nissan cars and diesel Chevy trucks. Similar to roaches (but in a good way), these cars never die.
@IvyMike.
@IvyMike. 11 ай бұрын
@@thatguyalex2835 So true
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
Nissans are pretty unreliable from what I hear. Not that you'd be too likely to be driving anything for very long in a real doomsday scenario. Probably wouldn't be viable after about a year tops.
@twentyrothmans7308
@twentyrothmans7308 11 ай бұрын
With BMI, I'm surprised that our friends aren't speaking like King Charles - yet.
@brutalknife3928
@brutalknife3928 11 ай бұрын
@@thatguyalex2835 You missed some south american cars, we have a lot of cars here that are very bulletproof.
@Jacobskibros
@Jacobskibros 11 ай бұрын
That was great! thanks garage 54. There are not many people that want to chop up cranks and cams to do this type of thing. Wood pistons concrete tires 2 wheel conversion. ONLY GARAGE 54!
@Drenov
@Drenov 11 ай бұрын
"Balance has left the chat" hahaha!
@nitricoxide1
@nitricoxide1 11 ай бұрын
This is similar to Ford's Voodoo engine setup here. Driving4answers has made a video about this and the engine has both Primary and Secondary imbalances, hence the intense vibration engine operations.
@Maurice-c6z
@Maurice-c6z 10 ай бұрын
Yea maybe place crank end to end
@volvo09
@volvo09 11 ай бұрын
You guys are wizards with engine internals! You've hacked up quite a few engines for crazy projects!
@scoobysean555
@scoobysean555 11 ай бұрын
It's amazing what can be done if you just do it and not follow the it wont work theory these guys do it differently than any other youtube channel I watch
@ludicrous7044
@ludicrous7044 Ай бұрын
They are WILD AND CRAZY GUYS!!🤤🥴
@thatguybrody4819
@thatguybrody4819 11 ай бұрын
your ability to break and weld the crank shaft and cams together and have it work (sometimes eventually) perfectly never ceases to amaze me. and apparently you even managed to improve it while still keeping it basically stock. an idea would try replacing the engine oil with something like Hoppes9 lubricating oil (or the local variant you can get your hands on)
@heyfarhanirfan
@heyfarhanirfan 9 ай бұрын
😂
@Boots67
@Boots67 11 ай бұрын
I love Garage 54 Anytime one of my buddies says “what would happen if you did this or that” I show them garage 54 ❤❤❤❤❤
@ludicrous7044
@ludicrous7044 Ай бұрын
That's called a WHAT IF!😮
@Whyuherebros
@Whyuherebros 11 ай бұрын
My man behind the wheel was flabbergasted 😂
@dzdonce
@dzdonce 11 ай бұрын
"Lada midbang" configuration. (secretly expected yamaha like big-bang config). p.s.violent vibration you get, is mostly from shifted rocking couple, not bacause imbalanced crank.
@WolfmanDude
@WolfmanDude 11 ай бұрын
I love these in-depth engine videos. Making wacky tires is funny and all, but these videos are the true reason your channel is great!
@OldcarsNmusic
@OldcarsNmusic 11 ай бұрын
I'll bet Lada loves Garage 54 because of how they show what Lada's cars are capable of.
@baby-sharkgto4902
@baby-sharkgto4902 11 ай бұрын
Awesome video guys!!! Maybe you will try this; cut cam and reweld cam so that cylinders (1 and 4 ) are on power stroke at the same time and same for cylinders (2 and 3) So basically it would seem like 2 big cylinders instead of 4 small cylinders
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
Some motorcycles are actually set up that way. They call it a "big bang" engine.
@jackt883
@jackt883 11 ай бұрын
They tried a full 4 cylinder - 1 cylinder setup previously. It wasn't very successful. All 4 cylinders sucking in at the same time caused a huge restriction as to how much air they could draw in. A 2-2 setup may work better though.
@baby-sharkgto4902
@baby-sharkgto4902 11 ай бұрын
@@iunnox666 yeah I have heard some refer to them as a “twingle” too (in two cylinder versions)
@baby-sharkgto4902
@baby-sharkgto4902 11 ай бұрын
@@jackt883 yes I did see that. A 1/4 and 2/3 would be quite easy in comparison as they do not even need to touch the pistons, oil pan, crank, etc. Just rearrange the cam timing (cut and reweld) and ignition timing. Simple for Garage 54. 107%
@jackt883
@jackt883 11 ай бұрын
Yeah that's true. 1 & 4 with 2 & 3. Bet it'd sound fantastic. 😂 Proper thumper.@@baby-sharkgto4902
@gabrielv.4358
@gabrielv.4358 11 ай бұрын
This channel is the most awesome mechanics channel ever made!
@punisher3607
@punisher3607 11 ай бұрын
Turn a flat plane crankshaft into a cross plane crankshaft!
@Flies2FLL
@Flies2FLL 11 ай бұрын
They do that in the motorcycle world.
@TheMrDarius
@TheMrDarius 11 ай бұрын
@@Flies2FLLSuzuki does that correct? Isn’t that why they sound very very similar to a crossplane V8?
@Szamuz
@Szamuz 11 ай бұрын
​@@TheMrDariusYamaha R1
@Flies2FLL
@Flies2FLL 11 ай бұрын
@@TheMrDarius I think they sound vaguely like a V8. Yamaha does this on the YZF-R1, if I remember correctly.
@jeremypike9153
@jeremypike9153 11 ай бұрын
They turned a cross plane into a flat plane crank.
@lesklower7281
@lesklower7281 11 ай бұрын
Never thought why the firing order for a typical 4 cylinder engine is 1 3 4 2 but now l know insures a smoother engine operation but a very good experiment keep up the entertaining videos
@ludditeneaderthal
@ludditeneaderthal 11 ай бұрын
It dates from 3 bearing model t type engines. There was, to say the least, a bit of flex potential in those cranks. The inner to outer close, outer to inner far pattern of 1342 used running load to counteract rocking couple in those unsupported webs. 1234 would have increased that "whip" between odd/even unsupported webs, not so good with the old spaghetti cranks, lol.
@lesklower7281
@lesklower7281 11 ай бұрын
@@ludditeneaderthal That's the reason why all four cylinders have that firing order
@ludditeneaderthal
@ludditeneaderthal 11 ай бұрын
@@lesklower7281 it has nothing to do with vibration, or "smooth running" though. It's longevity. A 180 degree flat plane crank doesn't care which 2 of the 4 throws are which phase, just so long as every next fire is opposed to the last. That can be balanced no matter what. Crank flex (and bearing journal/web) longevity is why the traditional 4 banger crank is split 14/23 for phases, and runs 1342 FO (inner close, outer far). You can overbuild a crank/mains combo to withstand 1234 and give long life, but there's no real advantage gained, and LOTS of disadvantage to doing so
@HighAway
@HighAway 11 ай бұрын
@@ludditeneaderthalthat's why it called harmony balancing. even with harmonic balancer slapped on. same principle but different physic and logic
@ludditeneaderthal
@ludditeneaderthal 11 ай бұрын
@HighAway rocking couple has nothing to do with harmonics, nor balance.
@operator8014
@operator8014 11 ай бұрын
You guys should use an oscilloscope to watch engine vibration and try to precisely ballance a lada engine and see if it's noticably nicer to drive!
@KayoMichiels
@KayoMichiels 11 ай бұрын
My dad and i worked on a vintage car made by Fabrique National (yes that FN) built in 1908 as the prototype of their production car... it had that firing order of 1-2-3-4 and it ran fine...
@RC-qf1et
@RC-qf1et 5 ай бұрын
I started watching this channel last month and I love it, Sdorovah!
@acunit1639
@acunit1639 11 ай бұрын
This is an engine i've wanted to hear for a long time. Thank you for feeding my curiousity
@thejmcGarage
@thejmcGarage 9 ай бұрын
Same!!
@T_Burd_75
@T_Burd_75 11 ай бұрын
It would be interesting to see it run with the clear intake on it to see how much the intake pulse on #4 robs some air-fuel mixture going into #1. That extreme spread between #4 and #1 is greater than the original #1 and #3 spread.
@isghaaqjones7637
@isghaaqjones7637 11 ай бұрын
This is awesome. Well done. I really want to see more turbo wrk. Cold air and forced air experiments
@paulwoodman5131
@paulwoodman5131 11 ай бұрын
Another issue is the intake manifold. The single carburator struggles to feed the four cylinders in line like that. A two carb intake would help a lot.
@demil3618
@demil3618 11 ай бұрын
A classic Garage54 again. Love these experiments! 👍👍
@ClotEastwood
@ClotEastwood 11 ай бұрын
I love it when he say's "If I'm totally honest I don't feel any dramatic changes". . . . IT'S STILL LOW POWER VIBRATING SHIT . . . ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I remember the LADA Taxi's back in the day. . . OMG . . . Smell of fuel and oil and bad ride . . . . No brakes . . . . . . ha ha ha ha You have done a fantastic job guy's. . RESPECT TO YOU
@SPEEDGAMESOFICIAL
@SPEEDGAMESOFICIAL 11 ай бұрын
Oh my god! Congratulations from brazil
@fredrickdavenport1611
@fredrickdavenport1611 11 ай бұрын
I've watched you for several years now! You are true hot rodders! things don't always work (clear engine lol) but your out there changing it up and thats hot rodding So Cool!
@thom_lapatate4842
@thom_lapatate4842 11 ай бұрын
Can't help but notice the firering order mishap in the title but the thumbnail is done right 😂 you guys are wizards at this keep it up!
@tapethegrape8195
@tapethegrape8195 11 ай бұрын
I was wondering if that was a mistake because the typo firing order is basically one after another but in reverse.
@38911bytefree
@38911bytefree 11 ай бұрын
Never seases to amaze. Garage54 keeps giving !!!
@MattyEngland
@MattyEngland 11 ай бұрын
It would be interesting to balance the crankshaft and repeat the test. That way the imbalance would only come from the firing order rather than the crank.
@shaneeslick
@shaneeslick 11 ай бұрын
Yeah it would be Awesome to see the parts made just right for piston to valve timing too, then Dyno this to a stock engine.
@DarkDrai
@DarkDrai 11 ай бұрын
This is so cool, omfg... O_O I'm impressed by how smooth it is, considering you basically just welded it back together. And the fact that it pulls better is just amazing. Excellent work!
@jameznm
@jameznm 11 ай бұрын
Great video guys, but I really think you should stop killing or improving Ladas, we're going to need them one day when all the new cars are broken and rusted.
@dansmith9406
@dansmith9406 10 ай бұрын
I remember being in college and my tutor telling us that one of the main reasons we don't have a 1,2,3,4 firing order is because the shockwave produced from each combustion cycle could eventually throw the flywheel off the end of the block or shatter the casing. It would be interesting to see if this is true under prolonged running
@VictorGarcia-uh6yk
@VictorGarcia-uh6yk 11 ай бұрын
Should do a crossplane crankshaft now
@jlucasound
@jlucasound 3 ай бұрын
From your reaction, I would say the power impressed you. IMHO, I would guess there was no more than 0.5 Deg variation on the cam or the crank. Maybe 1 Deg.. If it is 2 or 3, as you stated, you should make a version of this engine that is spot on. It would astound you/us, I think. Nice Job Guys! 1 Million (+) Subs is easily in your future. большой фанат. ❤ from USA.
@Iowa599
@Iowa599 11 ай бұрын
Is shimming the main bearings (with food-grade aluminum foil) normal for a Lada?
@enduroiasg4068
@enduroiasg4068 11 ай бұрын
My exact thinking
@thedevilinthecircuit1414
@thedevilinthecircuit1414 11 ай бұрын
They're going for a specific clearance on an engine designed to run just long enough to make a video 😃
@Iowa599
@Iowa599 11 ай бұрын
Shimming automotive engine bearings that way used to be more common, so for a car built under communism, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using shims at the factory. Probly not aluminum foil…unless shim stock supplies were low.
@Idfk37
@Idfk37 11 ай бұрын
was scared for a second. Thought my favorite russian youtube channel started doing nfts. love yall and all yalls content. make a inline 8 lada engine with two lada blocks. be super cool
@Lander76
@Lander76 11 ай бұрын
You guys should make your own performance camshaft 👍
@stclair2012
@stclair2012 Ай бұрын
As someone who is just getting into mechanic work, thanks for show us how things work
@baconsnot
@baconsnot 11 ай бұрын
Now I want to see a 1 1 1 1 firing order. Might need a big fly wheel
@erkinalp
@erkinalp 11 ай бұрын
already done
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
You mean 1+2+3+4?
@IamCanadianBacon
@IamCanadianBacon 11 ай бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYW6hpamfbaZfdEsi=DV_J6hEi33uI6UzG
@iamtheoffenderofall
@iamtheoffenderofall 11 ай бұрын
Already done, was just a giant 1 cylinder engine with 4 pistons
@bgd73
@bgd73 11 ай бұрын
playing whack a mole with an inline 4. that was fun. A funny engine to play with is the boxer 4cyl. you can flip the cams 180..leave the crank in the same spot.. what used to be exhaust is now intake, etc. You'd be surprised how many say nothing is different...until you reveal the mark on the crank to show it. :)
@PolPotsPieHole
@PolPotsPieHole 11 ай бұрын
this channel is freaking great
@nigelman9506
@nigelman9506 10 ай бұрын
Well done Garage 54, it makes us wonder why they did that
@tilen3266
@tilen3266 11 ай бұрын
NICE! Thats the video I was waiting for. I really wanna se some more makeshift turbo / super chargeing for theese lada engines
@grugbug4313
@grugbug4313 11 ай бұрын
Solid! Top KEK! Peace be with you.
@James-kd7dc
@James-kd7dc 11 ай бұрын
Would be a little trickier, but you should make an engine where all 4 cylinders fire at once! 4 coils all triggered at the same time should do for the ignition.
@JohnSmith-ef8nr
@JohnSmith-ef8nr 11 ай бұрын
Thay already did that one
@James-kd7dc
@James-kd7dc 11 ай бұрын
@@JohnSmith-ef8nr ok thanks, I'll have to find it.
@3dfymyworld484
@3dfymyworld484 9 ай бұрын
These guys neve disaponit, they always answer questions I had, and many I didn't even know I didn't know
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
Crossplane with the same firing order would be interesting. Probably even more vibration with quite a different sound
@pi.actual
@pi.actual 11 ай бұрын
I think there are reasons why nobody does it this way For one, the rocking forces created by the combustion stroke impulse of #1 followed immediately by the compression and then combustion of #2 rather than being balanced to the other end. Most likely the main bearings would wear out quickly. I'm sure they tried this in the early days and put the idea in the dustbin.
@timothybayliss6680
@timothybayliss6680 11 ай бұрын
Right on
@Dsnybx911
@Dsnybx911 7 ай бұрын
I love this crazy channel, thank for the translation and the laughs
@totsdaniel8695
@totsdaniel8695 11 ай бұрын
The title of the video says 1-4-3-2 but it should be 1-3-4-2 for the original firing order
@JoseLopez-el7xp
@JoseLopez-el7xp 11 ай бұрын
The firing order 1432 would make it fire in sequence backwards.
@thromboid
@thromboid 11 ай бұрын
I was wondering if that was an error or just how Ladas normally work. :)
@dansmith9406
@dansmith9406 10 ай бұрын
It's so strange seeing pistons 1&3 and 2&4 coming up at the same time instead of 1&4 and 2&3! Brilliant engineering 💪
@aFlasch10
@aFlasch10 11 ай бұрын
i had a saturn s series that and the firing order was 4-1-2-3 they were basically indestructable engines they only die from running out of oil. the twin cam engines were common to burn valves though
@iamtheoffenderofall
@iamtheoffenderofall 11 ай бұрын
That's NOT the firing order. That's just the way coils were labeled. Look up the actual firing order.
@wailingalen
@wailingalen 9 ай бұрын
My buddy from work happens to be a mechanic and sometimes his son be wrench in with him. So cool!!
@paulwisdom5383
@paulwisdom5383 11 ай бұрын
What about every 90 degrees have a cylinder fire?
@busyguy7479
@busyguy7479 11 ай бұрын
Yes very impressive work changing the cam timing and the crank work . good job guys you accomplished something here. does not have to be perfect to run the effort paid off keep working on it changing the cam timing was awesome kudos guys.
@Rolly369
@Rolly369 11 ай бұрын
try to make a 90deg. offset to the crank like yamaha ... this will give you a very unique sound and very strange torque curve for an inline engine ,)
@JudsonRadio
@JudsonRadio 9 ай бұрын
"We don't have the equipment to balance a crankshaft, we just eyeballed it and it's looking alright." wild
@TheTheo730
@TheTheo730 11 ай бұрын
You should make all the cilinders fire at the same time. That would sound awesome 🫣
@hotwheelsracer6380
@hotwheelsracer6380 11 ай бұрын
They already did that
@bystanderbutch3509
@bystanderbutch3509 11 ай бұрын
Look up the 1 stroke engine.
@andrehoffmann2931
@andrehoffmann2931 11 ай бұрын
Nice work there. To change the cams is just an amazing job. Very impressed.
@thatguyalex2835
@thatguyalex2835 11 ай бұрын
Nice project guys. :) This is a strange firing order, but it works. G54 is my Top Gear alternative, as Top Gear is no longer around anymore. Can you guys make a rear-engine, front wheel drive Lada that uses a 5-cylinder DIY diesel engine and update the interior with a modern instrument cluster and nice seats? That would be the weirdest, and most awesome car ever. Would be perfect for road trips. Thanks for taking requests.
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
I haven't watched it much, but The Grand Tour is basically what Top Gear was.
@juhajuntunen7866
@juhajuntunen7866 11 ай бұрын
Eith rear steering
@Bobcat9
@Bobcat9 11 ай бұрын
I realize these are basically junk cars and it's all just for fun, but what fun it is to have a guy who knows so so much about engines to actually make and test design modifications like this!
@-Graham
@-Graham 11 ай бұрын
The title incorrectly states the original firing order as 1-4-3-2 instead of 1-3-4-2
@Colorado_Native
@Colorado_Native 11 ай бұрын
Good catch.
@bertelliott1456
@bertelliott1456 11 ай бұрын
Very impressive! And greetings from America. Someone once told me that almost nobody makes a 4 cylinder engine larger than 2.5 liters, because the vibration would be too much.
@82f100swb
@82f100swb 11 ай бұрын
Lots of 4 cylinders bigger than 2.5, more commonly diesels. Detroit Diesel Series 50 is an 8.5L 4 cyl.
@cedriclynch
@cedriclynch 11 ай бұрын
@@82f100swb British Railways Southern Region used to have diesel-electric multiple unit trains built in the 1950s that had a four-cylinder turbocharged engine of about 62 litres, giving 600 horsepower at 850rpm. They hardly vibrated at all. You can find these on KZbin and listen to them, preferably with good headphones or speakers.
@Abshi_Ben
@Abshi_Ben 11 ай бұрын
Title is wrong. The order is 1342, but title says it'd be 1432.
@wellyngtonmatheus9803
@wellyngtonmatheus9803 11 ай бұрын
dont forget to change your oil
@markcdeyoung3118
@markcdeyoung3118 11 ай бұрын
Firing order changes as your oil gets dirtier
@Abshi_Ben
@Abshi_Ben 11 ай бұрын
Of course. Also it does usually change on tuesdays and fridays. WTF?
@Topsiekku
@Topsiekku 11 ай бұрын
I noticed the same
@Obinomoto
@Obinomoto 10 ай бұрын
In Russia it's different
@I.Live4oldcars.prospecting
@I.Live4oldcars.prospecting 11 ай бұрын
That was very impressive. Love what you guys can do .
@Flies2FLL
@Flies2FLL 11 ай бұрын
This will cause a rocking motion similar to a three cylinder, due to the second order vibration. I doubt it has any more or less power or torque. And it should sound approximately the same.
@iunnox666
@iunnox666 11 ай бұрын
Wouldn't more vibration = parasitic losses?
@1997cr80r
@1997cr80r 11 ай бұрын
Came here to say this but glad you already did. I doubt the welding of the crankshaft made any difference in vibration they would notice in that old car at them low rpms. It's the rocking motion causing the vibration and that's why firing orders are how that are. Like you stated power and sound won't be changed it's still the same cylinders doing the same work at the same speed
@isaacsmith5489
@isaacsmith5489 11 ай бұрын
The rocking couple is due to first order balance, not second. In a standard inline 4, primary balance is perfect, but secondary balance is as bad as possible, as all the cylinders are at either tdc or bdc, or within the middle of the stroke at any time. The second order balance with what has been done in this video is no better and no worse, however, since outside pistons are pushing in opposite directions they try to rotate the engine, the middle two pistons combat these forces slightly, but not entirely. In the case of an inline three, second order balance is perfect, but the rocking couple still exists.
@isaacsmith5489
@isaacsmith5489 11 ай бұрын
@@iunnox666 Marginally sure, but it wouldn't be anything overly significant. Balance shafts that can fix these sorts of vibration end up taking a lot more energy to run then they save. If there was a lot of energy lost it'd be seen in what absorbs the energy, the engine mounts. Since these aren't cooled they'd end up overheating very quickly if the amount of energy lost was significant.
@Flies2FLL
@Flies2FLL 11 ай бұрын
@@isaacsmith5489 I think that is wrong. In this crankshaft, the lobes are still symmetrical, so first order vibration is no different. The imbalance comes due to second order vibration, which is caused by the fact that a piston moving from TDC moves downward quicker than a piston moving upward from BDC. Normally this canceles out, but since cylinders fire down the line, the first two induce second order, then the next two, and then back to the first pair. This induces rocking along a transverse axis, or an up and down motion of the output shaft.
@earlfreimuth5799
@earlfreimuth5799 11 ай бұрын
I want to thank You. The videos are always very educational and hilariously Entertaining 👍
@johnmortison5763
@johnmortison5763 11 ай бұрын
One problem with the 1-2-3-4 firing order is that it causes a torsional wave in the crankshaft which is difficult to dampen with a torsional damper and may cause crank failure.
@1592159
@1592159 11 ай бұрын
Why would there be no wave with 1-4-3-2? It is firing in a line as well just the other way, correct?
@damienfournier1157
@damienfournier1157 11 ай бұрын
​@@1592159you're wrong , it doesn't make harmonic oscillations. The other issue with 1234 is how the pressure waves move in the intake manifold
@whitemonkey7932
@whitemonkey7932 11 ай бұрын
@@damienfournier1157 causes twisting and untwisting...as for pressure waves....think that through for a bit
@myne00
@myne00 11 ай бұрын
Cutting and welding the crank will do that long before the vibration does
@Tguson
@Tguson 11 ай бұрын
@@1592159 The title is incorrect, the original firing order is 1-3-4-2. You can see that when they point out that it's cast into the engine block.
@ga1707
@ga1707 11 ай бұрын
very nice guys. go on. can you make an engine turn/work counter-clockwise? it would be very interesting. no matter of course what changes the gear box needs to push the car forward!
@scoobysean555
@scoobysean555 11 ай бұрын
Drives better than most new cars on the road 😂
@calvinwright5040
@calvinwright5040 11 ай бұрын
I can't believe how good that runs! Impressive
@Aleks_Mechanics
@Aleks_Mechanics 11 ай бұрын
Notification squad Have a great weekend!🔥🔥🔥
@michaelmason5136
@michaelmason5136 11 ай бұрын
U guys are crazy And I love it Keep up the good work
@UpVoltageOverclocking
@UpVoltageOverclocking 11 ай бұрын
Do u honestly not own a timing light?
@TheWildPikey
@TheWildPikey 6 ай бұрын
What use would that be on this engine?
@TheWildPikey
@TheWildPikey 6 ай бұрын
What use would that be on this engine?
@UpVoltageOverclocking
@UpVoltageOverclocking 6 ай бұрын
@@TheWildPikey to set ignition timing accurately
@chandramohan-jt3mk
@chandramohan-jt3mk 11 ай бұрын
really great trial. can,t be done by people wit no patient. you guys really patient.
@Rappy104
@Rappy104 11 ай бұрын
For anyone that doesn’t know why motors have firing orders, it’s to minimize vibration and wear on the motor. Example: With the 1342 firing order the pistons would move in a way that balanced the movement of the motor. Changing it to 1234 obviously caused more vibrations and all that (I didn’t explain it to the best of my ability but hope it helps)
@woodardkingsbury1648
@woodardkingsbury1648 11 ай бұрын
Hey from America love the awesome engineering. You guys always do interesting projects
@simontist
@simontist 11 ай бұрын
I think the vibration is from the pistons moving up and down, with that crankshaft arrangement there will be a fore-aft rocking moment - which is what it looks like is happening.
@Platypus_Warrior
@Platypus_Warrior 11 ай бұрын
I like the video before watching it. What an interesting idea to do something people say not to do (for obvious reasons) but never see. Thank you
@barbarakerr5501
@barbarakerr5501 11 ай бұрын
You guys are amazing great RUssian enginuity I love the russian language Cheers from your friend in AUstralia BOb 😊😊
@henktulp4400
@henktulp4400 11 ай бұрын
You might have improvement if you adapt the manifolds, specially the exhaust manifold, probably being a ‘2+2’ will now disturb the flow of gases, to some extent this will be the same for the intake manifold… I love your channel!!!! Having worked as a mechanic in croatia for over five years I love ‘Balkan System’!!!! Greetings, Henk, the Netherlands.
@Per-MichaelJarnberg
@Per-MichaelJarnberg 10 ай бұрын
There is a reason why engines have the correct firing order 1-3-4-2 other wise it would throw off balance and run rough than smooth
@angelataylor4975
@angelataylor4975 11 ай бұрын
Next time on garage 54. Turbo charging our 1234 engine.. It's gonna be a BANG fellas.. lol
@Paul-q3m7k
@Paul-q3m7k 11 ай бұрын
Really cool ! Impressive work on that cam and crank
@7mgte490
@7mgte490 11 ай бұрын
Wow 🤯 guy's are great.... I've said it before and will say it again. Love the experiments you guy's do👍👍
@thechuckster6838
@thechuckster6838 11 ай бұрын
That was great! Thank you from New York!!
@shaneeslick
@shaneeslick 11 ай бұрын
G'day Garage54 & BMI, Wow that is so cool, I love the engineering you do like this as it is Educational plus so much fun. It would be cool to get this Dyno Tested compared to standard. I have some affinity with this engine, there is something different going on in my head & body that makes me all shaky too 😁. When I was younger I suffered a head injury that is affecting my ballance & nerves, so I am all wobbly & shake similar to Pakinson's Disease.
@painlessadventure
@painlessadventure 9 ай бұрын
Interesting , and nicely done. I have an idea for you to try...Make a distributor rotor to fire at both ends and design the engine to fire two cylinders at a time. You can do it!
@Hazmatt4700
@Hazmatt4700 11 ай бұрын
I did that crank mod by accident to a dump truck. That was way over loaded, and at the top of a very steep hill. Luckily I had enough air to keep the steering going and not into the deeper hole at the bottom of the hill.
@fidelmontollaiii7866
@fidelmontollaiii7866 11 ай бұрын
torque twist on crankshaft, firing order keeps torque spread out across shaft for durability.
@siraff4461
@siraff4461 11 ай бұрын
Balancing a crank (to a decent amount - not perfectly) is fairly easy. A bearing at each end, spin it and where it stops is the heavy point. Shave (or drill) some material off the weights at that point and go again. Its a lot like balancing a tyre but removing weight instead of adding it.
@rfiskillingussoftly6568
@rfiskillingussoftly6568 11 ай бұрын
Great job!
@GunMuse
@GunMuse 11 ай бұрын
my favorite part we left welds in the cam bearings but we we also plasta gauged the crank bearings. Our space program relies on thier engineering and quality control. Why isn't 1234 the standardized firing order because engines exceeded 40mph before sputnik. The cranks splinter
@Richie_RHD
@Richie_RHD 11 ай бұрын
The more and more i've been watching you guys, the more and more i want one of these cars in the states. this is such a rad little ride. im sure at this point they are all thrashed hard tho.
@cycoholic
@cycoholic 11 ай бұрын
You could also try looking for Fiat 124, as these Ladas were based/licenced from Fiat. I'd try and track down a Fiat 125, they were a more sportier version. There were also Spyder versions as well.
@Slugg-O
@Slugg-O 5 ай бұрын
These guys are fun to watch. I'm sure vodka was involved in some of their ideas. ;-)
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