Eights on Pylons [HD]

[@joecarpenter4522]

Eights on Pylons is definitely my favorite commercial maneuver. Once I "got it" about pivotal altitude and diving/climbing as necessary, it became a joy to fly. I also really enjoy the low level aspect of the maneuver and wonder what any spectators might be thinking! Great flying and instructing Garry!

[@abbieamavi]

I’ve started my commercial training, and this video is the best I’ve found on Eights On Pylons!! Thank you so much!

[@alvinlal85]

Love your videos sir! They are helping cement the Commercial maneuvers. Thank you for these videos.

[@GarryWing]

Thanks... I'm just finishing editing a video for Steep Spirals that should be posted in a few days... That's another fun Commercial maneuver with a high workload...

[@tarekkhalifa1645]

hi garry. you are abstract and a great source of training. thanks

[@billsheehy1]

all your videos are great , thank you.

[@mlaaircraftflyingfun6946]

thanks for your help Garry Im Helicopter PP, used to flight big russians Heli.MI 17,MI 24, MI 8, as a PIC, right now running for fix wing P.P Lic. your videos help a lot .

[@joro18d93]

Spectacular Vid. Thank You Mr. Garry.

[@AhmedAli-xy2jd]

You have an amazing videos, I really like them. Thank you so much for helping ppl learning.

[@tino6117]

Hi Garry, great videos! On this one I noticed a slight inconsistency: First you talk about TAS and then later about GS. TAS is only correct for a zero wind condition. I know you know that and just wanted to add that so students won't be confused. Keep on flying and filming :)

[@GarryWing]

Thanks for trying to help, Tino.... but I don't think you have grasped this maneuver entirely. Please refer to FAA's _Airplane Flying Handbook_, page 6-14. You use *True Airspeed* to calculate Pivotal Altitude, but alter it as you fly, based on changing *Ground Speed*. As you're constantly turning, that Ground Speed is also changing (assuming any wind), which is what you must factor for in demonstrating the maneuver. Again, go back and read the AFH and watch the video again. I believe I explained and demonstrated it the way the FAA wants you to understand it.

[@tino6117]

It says "A rule of thumb for estimating pivotal altitude in *calm wind* is to square the true airspeed and divide by 15 for miles per hour (m.p.h.) or 11.3 for knots". Would you still use the TAS in a 20 knots wind? Even 90kts to 100kts result in 168' difference. I'm a fresh CFI and love to learn, so I'm always looking for new insights and tips.

[@GarryWing]

You should teach students your way, then... But, the way I teach, is to use TAS. First, you aren't going to _know_ what the wind is over a corn field in the middle of Podunk; second, the wind doesn't move with you, so if it's 20-kts.(assuming you knew that, which you won't), and your TAS is 100, do you use 80 GS (headwind) or 120 GS (tailwind) to calculate Pivotal Altitude? Hmmmm, you've just made a fairly simple _visual_ Commercial maneuver much more complicated than it needs to be. Keep it simple. If you would read the entire section in the _AFH_, you will note the last common error is: *Inability to select pivotal altitude*, which you seem to be struggling with....

[@lamarethington]

Reading this exchange helped me finally grasp why the AFH says the rule of thumb is TAS squares over 11.3. Its about preflight planning.

[@Nick-xx1mt]

Hi Gary, to supplement your discussion with "Tino" I have found something I think you should take a look at (albeit 11 months later). I want you to take a look at the most current AFH (FAA-H-8083-3B) and take a look at Page 6-16, which provides the following explanation on how to calculate Pivotal Altitude: "An explanation of the pivotal altitude is also essential. First, a good rule of thumb for estimating the pivotal altitude is to square the ground speed, then divide by 11.3 for knots". Much to my surprise, the Pivotal Altitude calculation in the older version of the AFH (8083-3A) is different! Page 6-14 of the older version states: "A rule of thumb for estimating pivotal altitude in calm wind is to square the true airspeed and divide by 15 for MPH or 11.3 for KNOTS." So I suppose at the time this video was uploaded you were factually correct (and probably still are), however given the new verbage in the AFH are you considering making any changes to your technique? Best Regards, Nick

[@AA-py7lh]

thanks for this video chief!

[@jaxav8r]

Hey Garry, I was hoping you could help me understand the use (or lack of it) of pivotal altitude DURING the maneuver (not just upon entry? I'm practicing them at sea level and entering at 100 knots, 885' AGL. On my first turn when my groundspeed reaches 104 kias, should I be anticipating climb to PA of 960' (per the calculation)? and then as my groundspeed slows to 96 knots around the 3rd turn, I anticipate descending to 810'? In other words...is the examiner going to be expecting me to keep an eye on my groundspeed throughout the maneuver? ...or can I simply fly the aircraft by visual reference to the pylon and ignore my groundspeed?

[@GarryWing]

Hi Jax - It's a _visual_ maneuver. You only calculate the pivotal altitude for entry into the maneuver. Once into the 8's, it's all *visual*; you don't continue calculating and targeting an altitude, although if you demonstrate awareness of the correlation between changing ground speed and required altitude, the examiner would be pleased :)

[@jaxav8r]

Ok noted, thanks Garry!

[@CaptainReverendo]

Need some new vids Garry!

[@TGraysChannels]

Thanks!