Telling the Rich To PAY Tax - Part 2 with Stephanie Brobbey

"You know if we don't start to tax wealth and close begin to close the gap this is an economic disaster and i'm starting to see glimpses of what that disaster could look like. It's when ordinary people can't spend money in the real economy and the economy just grinds to a whole and i think we're starting to see that now"
Follow Steph on Twitter: / steph_brobbey
Stephs Latest Guardian Article: www.theguardian.com/commentis...
For More Information about Advice on Wealth Stewardship
visit: www.goodancestormovement.com/
SUBSCRIBE, SHARE & START A CONVERSATION
SOCIAL MEDIA:
WEBSITE - www.wealtheconomics.org
TWITTER - @garyseconomics
FACEBOOK - @garyseconomics
INSTAGRAM - @garyseconomics
Guest Appearance by Stephanie Brobbey
FOUNDER of the GOOD ANCESTOR MOVEMENT
Performed by Gary Stevenson
GARYSECONOMICS
Produced by Simran Mohan
MOHAN MEDIA

[@91adigio]

The metaphor of the oxygen being sucked out of the room while the government asks the people in the room to breath less is probably the most powerful image you have used to describe the problem.

[@TheSpiralLab]

As someone who lived most of my life as middle class and then fell for several years into poverty after a divorce, I would say that even middle class people, even really progressive middle class people, really have no idea at all what actual poverty is about.

[@deborahcurtis1385]

Yes I ended a friendship with a woman when we were both young who was just so aspirational and ignorant, I told her our values were too different. Many years later we reconnected and she's still the same...actually worse! The glib responses to complex issues people face. She actually told me that finding an old wealthy guy is a valid strategy. I said that's effectively prostitution and if I ever did that, I'd be doing it properly not having to have sex with the same old guy. She didn't see the humour I really shocked her and she has blocked me. This is AFTER I gave her excellent advice on how to deal with her lawyer in a conflict of interest situation involving commercial real estate leasing, AND saved her a huge amount of money. Something she never got back to me about at the time, but offhandedly mentioned she'd passed on my advice to others and they said it helped them and it was helpful to her. But she never thanked me directly or talked to me about the very favourable outcome she must have got, rather than getting totally shafted which is what was happening to her. It just stuck in my craw, that I saved her a colossal amount of money and her response was to seriously suggest a form of prostitution to me, as a wealth option. These people are unbelievable.

[@bigthangz5489]

they do... but chose to look away

[@stewartmacdonald601]

You are correct. I grew up working / middle class. My father was a fireman, and worked a second job too so he could build his house. So I suppose that would qualify as right at the bottom of middle class, or the top of working class. Somewhere around there. That would be difficult for a young firefighter to do today I'm sure. So with that upbringing, I always had a job. Or at least while I wasn't a student (but even then). Even if it was a minimum wage, factory worker job, I was always able to afford carpets and curtains, even if they were second hand. After years of working in a factory job, I left and went back to University to get a degree, then came out and got a decent enough job. Enough to afford my own home and a family, but little more. While I do feel I have lived in "poorer" circumstances, the fact I always worked, even at minimum wage, means I haven't really had exposure to proper poverty. Other than through travel. I guess my point here is that so long as you are working, even minimum wage, that is not "proper" poverty. That's not the guy living on his own in a bedsit with nothing but a kettle, a lightbulb and a sleeping bag. I have met these people, and have been friends with these people, and it sure is tough. But for many of them, there is a reason why they are there. Drugs, education, criminal records or whatever. Society needs to figure out what support some of these people need, then provide it, such that they can at least survive better. And so these guys are correct, the truley wealthy need to be taxed more. Not the middle classes.

[@neurojitsu]

As someone who lived in emergency accommodation due to my family becoming homeless at age 15, I can testify to what you're saying about so-called "elites" having no direct life experience of the plight of those in poverty, and its debilitating impact. I have felt for years now a deep frustration at this lack of understanding, since Osborne's austerity years after the 2008 financial crash. As a fellow LSE graduate, though older than you at 53, I managed to climb out of poverty into relative comfort and carried for years inner guilt and hid it from colleagues and friends. I do hope that your channel helps mobilise a movement of likeminded people to use their voices to represent the interests of wider society. Labour's silence on many systemic issues, such as Brexit and proportional representation, is I think a pragmatic stance for fear of losing support in the centre ground of politics where many people don't understand the reality of the political economy. Stephanie's discussion with you highlights a simple fact: there is no such thing as pure economics. Policy is not set in an economic vacuum: all policy-making is ultimately political, even if it is not overt or even if the politics are operating subconsciously. As we all know wealthy interests exercise power in oblique ways through lobbying, think tanks and the media. So thanks for doing what you're doing, and advocating for wealth taxes and redistribution of wealth for the health of the wider political-economic system. In my executive days, one policy that we had at my company was that every executive above a certain management level had to spend time in retail stores and call centres. The idea was that decision-makers should understand the realities of those working in direct contact with our customers. I've long since thought if only politicians were required to spend time living with their families on universal credit, in rented accommodation, say for a week... their comfortable worlds would be rocked. Even just a couple of days would do the trick... those that govern us do not understand the impact of their decisions, and until they do we will not solve the complexities of our current crises with intellectual, critical thinking devoid of any heart.

[@johnwright9372]

You get it. The way things are going more and more will be driven into poverty. Fascism will become more attractive and will threaten democracy and the rule of law. What enrages me most is the ignorant complacency fostered by the vicious right wing media.

[@tomboard]

​@@johnwright9372 Yes I worry about the right wing media's influence, and the appearance of fascist history repeating itself. I don't actually think the right wing media is actually hell-bent on creating a dystopia, though I am suspect of the motives of owners like Murdoch, Russian oligarchs and others who benefit from destabilising Western democracies. I suspect what is going on is a simpler phenomenon of self-interest-driven culture and behaviour on the right of politics (they might call it libertarian, or what Peter Thiel calls "freedom"), fused with a few unsavoury far right fascists on the fringes who are starting to look worryingly less extreme by comparison thanks to the right wing take-overs in so many conservative parties the world over. It often looks to me like the self-interest mindset has reached epidemic levels in boardrooms, the financial industry and even in popular culture - and it entails an uncaring, not-my-problem attitude towards the poor in society, and those that encounter misfortune. Or perhaps that's too cynical? Perhaps too many senior and middle managers in business are just indoctrinated in the profit-first way of thinking, that is the orthodoxy that generations of business leaders and economists have been schooled in. Myself included. What I applaud about this YT channel, and people like Stephanie, is the courage to challenge the orthodoxy and nurture that instinct to "care" and "do what's right" - goodness knows we need it, and we're not getting it from our leaders at the moment. After Covid, I had hoped a more caring approach might take hold... maybe it's just a question of time. I hope so...

[@MrTimg12]

That's an interesting point you make that senior management should work at the coal face to further understand the lives of those members of staff. Not only is that important but they should also implement pay and conditions within the entire business/organisation that recognise that everyone is a stakeholder and everyone should be rewarded as such. There's a spurious metric within our economy that wages are set at a competitive level ( whatever that means). This is merely a method for senior management and shareholders to pay wages that are part of a race to the lowest possible and extract the most value out of employees to their own advantage. Indeed working tax credits are an admission that the public purse picks up private sector wage insufficiency. These businesses need to be reorganised such that the wealth created by them is shared between all the stakeholders in a fair way so that everyone benefits , not just senior management and shareholders. I worked in a well known large health & fitness gym group for 20 years. HR contacted me in my 20th year congratulating me on my long dedicated service. I was invited to that year's' 20 Years' Service' dinner on a Thames riverboat! I duly attended along with 5 or so senior management, including the CEO, and each hosted a table of six staff or so from different clubs. At the end the CEO gave a heartfelt speech on how loyal we all were and he couldn't thank us too much for our dedicated service. As a mark of respect he personally handed each of us a small acrylic plaque emblazoned with the company logo, our health club name alongside ours. We then crowded around our smiling proud CEO for the requisite photo as we held aloft our treasured momento of pretty much an entire life's work. This would be marvellous PR when posted on the company website. I'd've liked to have given a speech as a reply to the CEO's. In it I would've held this small acrylic plaque up and pointed out that this represents how much we are really valued by this company. Because in truth, after 20 years of hard work and loyalty, this was the ONLY thing the company had ever given us Because, after all those years, none of us have a single penny in a company pension ( this was a few years before auto-enrolment) and certainly absolutely zero ownership of shares in the company. Indeed we didn't even get a free club membership to see out the rest of our lives. I would have added , thank you very much for my 20 years of impoverishment and I wonder how much your remuneration, and the senior management sitting here tonight is? I expect it's well into the 6 figures, plus a generous share bonus scheme, non-contributory pension, health and personal insurance, a company car, free family membership etc etc. Ultimately, I would like to have said is, how can you patronise us tonight and look us in the eye in the knowledge that you've entirely ripped us off for our entire working lives ( bearing in mind the competitive health club wages...) and that your wealth accumulation is entirely at our expense , the poor 20 years' employee club? To summarise, as I mentioned earlier, important though it is that senior management work at the coal face, more importantly they should realise that they need to share the wealth created within their company between all employees and not just hoard it for themselves and the shareholders.

[@neurojitsu]

@@MrTimg12 Hi Timothy, I hear you my friend and could not agree more. Where to start? I was an HR Director, so I understand the 'logic' behind the management of salaries in large, complex organisations. I will not defend it against any of the moral wrongs that you point out, all of which I believe to be statements of truth. The "problem" as I see it, is one of authenticity and who gets to write the rules of the game. Let me just unpack a few things beneath this enormous iceberg. On pay management - not to defend the management "community" but just to "explain" the mindset free of any judgment - there is an old-fashioned but dominant frame in the business world, that goes like this. Our companies are run for profit by and large, with some notable exceptions like Patagonia or Richer Sounds that I'll come back to. "Run for profit" means that is literally the bottom line. The compensation and benefits profession is staffed by accountants and actuaries, ie numbers people (like the accountants, bankers and investors who dominate shareholder conversations and interests). I can tell you that most HR Directors that I respect care deeply about things like equity, fairness, values, culture and training; they fight for these things every day. But the "frame" they work within is one of profit-maximisation. This frame - absent a company value that champions an alternative world view - means that an HR Director's job is to optimise the cost of people as part of the mix of costs that constrain profit. Most HR Directors would rather manage people costs as "investments" - justifying higher costs on the grounds of future economic pay-back... but I can tell you winning those arguments with the CFO and CEO is not easy... it's all a question of time-frames, and profit-driven goals tend to be short term not long term. Its logical conclusion is in basing pay decisions on "market values" - this is a well tried and tested logic, and when every other company is operating that way it takes a brave HR Director to buck the trend... and probably s/he will not last long after doing so. The "problem definition" then is what we should be examining, not the behaviour... it's too simplistic to point fingers, we have to aim much higher and look to change the system. But how? For large comanies, publicly quoted on the stock exchange, their senior management's interests have been "aligned" (you might say "rigged") with the interests of shareholders. Board level teams are vetoed or endorsed by shareholders. This in itself is not a "wrong" or inherently bad... but over many years, share options have become a key reward mechanism that aligns shareholder interests with those of management. Hence the proliferation of share buy-back schemes that "return" money to shareholders, but also reward top executives for doing so. The incentives start at the top... these leaders then set the incentives for the rest of the organisation, all "aligned" to profit goals. Without solving this problem, you cannot solve the pay equity problem. It's analagous to the current political debate around Tory economic ideology that - since Thatcher - is based on a simplistic metaphor: that the country's economy is like a household's finances. This metaphor works for communication to the public at large because it's easy to understand, and passes the "makes sense" test. Of course, that's regardless of the fact it is plain wrong. To solve the pay problem we have to adopt moral positions, as you are advocating for. Richer Sounds' founder, when he decided to retire, gave away - if I recall - half the company to his employees, creating a partnership. John Lewis is a partnership too. I've worked for many family businesses as a consultant, like Mars, and they think long term. Why? Because they are not beholden to banks and shareholders, and thus their decision-making is not based on quarterly results figures that drive their share price. These companies have freedom to take a moral stance on issues, and they often do so. Patagonia as you may know has recently announced all their profits will go towards fighting climate change. No shareholder would endorse such an idea, though the investment industry is waking up to the public mood (or rather, smelling the coffee that is the public as consumers will vote with their feet. So a big question is who should be held accountable for changing the problematic mindsets and behaviours at the heart of driving inequality? I for one want to be part of the solution not part of the problem. I think more middle to senior managers need to commit to this simple approach, but it's not easy in reality. These people have mortgages and reptuations that enable their lifestyles... so there is on escape from the fact that sacrifice in the interests of fairness will be required before things change. Those with the power to change the situation faster are not showing - thus far - an inclination to do so. Politicians are not forcing the pace of change, yet... a start would be a Labour government. But it will take far more progressive policies than Starmer's... I was not a fan of Corbyn, but I did like much of his team's policy thinking... if Starmer can find a way to adopt socially just policies without upsetting the moderates in the party, then maybe we'll get there.

[@MrTimg12]

@@neurojitsu Thank you very much for taking the time to reply in such great detail. Fascinating to hear from a human resources director. You clearly make the argument that publicly quoted companies are beholden to the bottom line and their shareholders. Is this the same for private capital owned businesses? Ultimately presumably they're beholden to the bank and the same goal namely a race to the bottom on worker's remuneration to enhance profits. It appears that those below upper management ( perhaps the working class?) are at the mercy of the capitalist system and as you mentioned it may require government intervention to insist companies have staff representatives on the board, fairer pay and conditions etc. A start would be collective bargaining! Thatcher crushed workers rights by crushing the unions in the '80's and the pendulum has swung too far towards the owners of capital. A Labour government should tackle this issue head on .

[@katiemiaana]

This was so good I've been super depressed lately with everything I am a support worker and see a lot of difficulties. You two give me faith that things can get better.

[@garyseconomics]

Sorry to hear that klou32. Take care of yourself!

[@katiemiaana]

@@garyseconomics thanks Gary!

[@loveofwisdom55]

Hey, all we can do is the best we can in each moment 😊 don't let the system grind you down! You matter! Be good to yourself.

[@kenrehill8775]

It will not get better

[@davidanderson5203]

Consumption and consumerism is a pacifier for the people, great interview, bring her back, very insightful.

[@Gr0nal]

Sorry, it's a very hard pill to swallow - that we just need to come together as a community and be some grass roots movement. I barely have the energy to look after myself. I don't have the energy to make change in the world. The absolute best I can achieve is focusing on myself. I know that's exactly how "they" want it to be though.

[@tonyaldridge8917]

It’s amazing the system hasn’t collapsed already, we moved to Germany, Germans wife, left a flat of black mould and no money in south England, book arrives in two days, good luck, we’ve lived this subject for many years

[@yubet00b89]

What an amazing woman! I love her! (and Gary of course!). It breaks my heart as a Londoner to hear we've got more food banks in Britain than MaccyDs! It shows how unaccountable our Government is for upholding the mandate of the people to protect & preserve lives with dignity. Actually its a violation of basic human rights...in one of the so called richest cities in the world. Community is how this gets resolved. I'm working in Sri Lanka trying to help sort out their financial crisis caused by corrupt politicians. I see parallels. People just accepted the inequality here until the food and fuel literally ran out. Then with a common cause they put differences (always exaggerated by media) aside and marched together and overthrew the prime minister & president. People may not have money, but they have a voice. And when that voice becomes a collective national voice it is more powerful than the richest institution.

[@jocampbell6962]

Absolutely 👌🏾💯💫

[@mikeroyce8926]

How about promoting as a measure the median value of each of the lowest three deciles of income and wealth in society? If these groups' wealth and income were measured closely and reported widely, could they become part of the "success criteria" used to judge how well an economy is doing? What do you think? Eg get the OBR to report on it twice a year when they analyse the budget and autumn statement. Eg GDP grew by 1% but in the same period the incomes of each of the lowest three deciles fell by 5%, 4% and 3.5% respectively

[@iainzo7]

Could you do a video on community wealth building, improving local democracy, community bonds or ways to take control back from low levels of government to build better areas to live?

[@daftjunk2008]

Taxing land (while reducing burden of income/VAT) will start to resolve inequality and help the productive economy. Added bonus, rich people can't hide the land offshore.

[@dellwright1407]

What about UK farmers who may be relatively capital rich but income poor? i.e., Have land the might be worth a lot but not making much off it for reasons beyond their control?

[@daftjunk2008]

@@dellwright1407 there would be exceptions made? Also pensioners who are land rich but cash poor; some sort of deferral or compensation could be made. There'll always be initial issues with any new tax. Doesn't reduce the necessity of it

[@dellwright1407]

@@daftjunk2008 thanks, agreed.

[@mdhazeldine]

Totally right. There needs to be a discussion about land value tax. I read a book about this around the time of the 2008 crisis. I was pretty convinced by the arguments in the book, but nobody has talked about it since. I may not be the total solution, but I definitely think it would help a lot.

[@tomboard]

I agree there are lots of opportunities related to land ownership (with exceptions needed for farmers, charities, etc). All that land that developers and supermarkets are sitting on should be targeted in some way; I read a while back that many supermarkets buy and sit on land, just to depriver competitors of valuable sites. That should be made illegal, as it's surely anti-competitive anyway. And the developers that sit on land that has planning permission are just motivated by greed, artificially limiting supply to keep prices and hence profits high. Overall I'd support a wealth tax that includes land. I lived in Spain 10 years ago, and they have a wealth tax, so there are lots of examples around of how to implement this sort of policy - it's not exactly a new idea.

[@betterbe_]

I currently work in fostering in the local authority. The system is at breaking point and the most vulnerable people in society is not being cared for. As a worker , single mother, council tenant, i dont earn enough to keep up working this way. It is difficult for workers to be earning enough and then you see not enough money for the more vulnerable members. It is demoralising as you feel helpless for your own situation and for others. I see the greed and the the divide in society. We will end up with a poor / rich divide without the ability to progress. I also do budgeting strategies for my friends who have regular jobs and are at a loss how to survive at this time.

[@MikBak1814]

Love your content, Gary. Thank you. One quick tip: don't fall into the contemporary trap of calling industries, areas, or rooms "spaces". Other than the observable gap between two objects or the wondrous eternity that exists outside of our atmosphere there is no such thing as "space". Thanks again!

[@southney7211]

The big issue is the media and the grip it has on society. Yes more critiquing of top rich vs top tax contributors in media and placing responsibility and shame on those who are runaway wealthy. Without the power of the mainstream media, it’s difficult to break down the barriers and divisions they place between us. Many do just gobble up the trash without question, they’re addicted to it.

[@EducationevolutionOrg]

You two are giving me hope & inspiration that there are solutions and movements burgeoning!! I have a business & finance degree coming also from a poorer background & have always had major issues with what's going on... You are providing pieces of the puzzle about the economics of it that I was missing. Thank you! & Thank you for speaking out & doing the work you do. Don't quit. Forces are growing & will coalesce at some point. Cheers.

[@mrfluffyminstrel]

Something i ve noticed since covid is that employers are reducing staffing to increase profits. The government is also (I believe) distracting people on benefits to prevent them uniting to challenge wealth disparity. The majority of benefit claimants work - but employers use the law to keep their wage bills down. Then the government jumps on these claimants to blame them (and encourage others to blame them). All to create distraction to maximise shareholder dividends.

[@craigkinney853]

Can I make a suggestion? You are correct in regards to asking progressive people to pay tax Wisely. However and I say this carefully the more money that you pump into the system then the more there is for them to waste. How's about a local tax fund that each authority can negotiate with prospective donors. The authority can make guarantees on how the money is spent. Ie. Free child care. Care for the elderly, child welfare. It's not just about paying more tax It's about making sure the grubby so and so's don't get their hand on it and stuff the cash I to their mates pockets in the defence or pharmaceutical industries. But yes you are both right and both wanting to do the right thing.

[@lindalong5052]

I agree. I'd happily pay more tax to give nurses a decent wage/support folk with illness or disability/people escaping war zones... but bigger bonuses for bankers? MPs? non-doms?

[@FlyinDogRecords]

Getting together requires having time. Most people are worn out from working and taking care of their homes. People do participate in contacting government but it does not make a difference. Rich people simply hire other people to do their bidding. Regular people have to make government contacting another job. We are being attacked economically in so many ways that it makes it almost impossible to divide our time to do anything. We vote for the people that we want to help us but we don't have the money to put the policies to work! People are exhausted.

[@stuartlawler2411]

You should do a video on zero hour contracts, they destroyed our economy for good. I am now at senior management level within hospitality at age 28 working since 16 and I have never paid council tax. Simply because I have never been able to work for more than about 3 months a year. Getting sent home when its quiet so your employer can continue to make money off your right to work is slavery at it most elite level. Especialy when you dont get paid more when its busy or you work overtime...70hr weeks in the summer and foodbanks the rest of the year...nerve damage from taking cold baths in the winter just to work 9hrs a week in a club because UC sanctioned you for missing an appointment 6 years ago...doctors diagnosing severe malnourishment...zero hour contracts are the most evil part of our society and now people are being offered a salary but its actually a zero hour contract in disguise. The issue is that all the momey is going to the internet economy and so is all the access to economic movement. Can only get the jobs that indeed says you can have now. Everything is monopolized by the wealthy, even access to you in your home... used to be all sorts of regulations and now they have given us all advertisers in our pockets. You must use these devices, it is government sanctioned. Cant get benefits unless you have one. The tories are running societal cut-offs and the lower class got destroyed by zero hour contracts. The working class are now getting cut off with minimum wage going up to near 12p.h. which is 25k a year...nobody is going to hire anyone remotely good or take a risk when they are being paid at that level. They keep raising this to kill the disabled people, they could find jobs for a 5er an hour but now they have to stay home, so now you have to stay home and care for them. So now everybkdy is claiming benefits(result for the rich gang government). Perfect system for wealth extraction. Better to have a few people working, paying tax, take that tax, give it to people and force them to sit in the house with no access to travel for work(not included in benefits, conveniently) forcing them tk spend the money on very few things...supermarket, gas n light...the things owned by the richest which is who the government works for...then you gibe out cost of living payments so pointlessy low that they go straight to...supermarkets, gas n light n broadband and so on...so now the working class are paying everybodies way. We have been seperated into classes and all classes slave to the rich now. If you are disabled you get a £150 payment instead lf £350...disabked people having the highest cost of living expenses due to specialist equipment and so on... all someone has to do is bullet point these issues on live tv such as the news and our government will have to prove that this system is nkt designed tk kill of lower classes of society as when observed, its design serves only this purpose. Applied to the army as I cant live another year like this. Dont think I can afford to even join the army at this point. God bless the poshos🎉 our masters.

[@RKArchitects]

Thank you for doing this work and sharing your insights. The lack of knowledge by most of us about why and how this happens is such essential data to help people decide who and what to vote for. It is time to end this "we cannot do anything about this" message.

[@SkyEcho7]

🍻 Gary & Stephanie Excessive wealth corrupts democracy, what's left of it.

[@SimonHough-hz8wp]

We need to move away from democracy as soon as possible.

[@user-sj7ni5bq5z]

“People are just trying to survive the system “!

[@excel04]

Gary, it might be worth thinking about having interviews with some entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial teachers who have ethical leanings or potential to have their minds opened. One guy who comes to mind is Rob Moore. He has 300 properties but comes from a normal background and has a large following of people who want to grow wealth but mostly do it in a good way. I'd love to see you debate someone like that on your channel or his.

[@GreenLarsen]

Great talk. At the end, they talk about what we can do to help. Do not forget that even slowing down bad stuff is also a small help. Voting, even if just to stop the bleed is better then not voting

[@discokitchen7053]

A lot of people have heard of the term "bullshit jobs" now which are basically jobs that are just pointless and adding nothing to society. Perhaps we need another term though for jobs that are actually taking away / harming society!

[@joemacdougall9205]

The book includes that category as a category of bullshit jobs but I think they should be a category of their own

[@longleaf0]

Parasitic jobs...

[@stuartlawler2411]

Parasites*

[@antonioraffa123]

I must admit that, due to my naivety, I'm shocked to learn through your videos that the system is so unevenly heavily weighted towards the wealthy. I suppose that I reasonably expected the system in this country to be so much better regulated. So, thank you for unveiling the truth.

[@cianog]

My portfolio quadrupled during the pandemic. I say this as a ordinary person. That was a once in a lifetime opportunity which I can’t see happening again.

[@stuartlawler2411]

Normal people dont have portfolios, they have Universal Credit accounts and a zero hour contract. Grow up.

[@MaskedOG]

Unless you see 2008 and the other periods where there were once in a lifetime chances. Sadly at the end of the Lifecycle of a spciety it will happen more often. Happend in the old roaman empire and every other well developed Culture before they broke down. That doesnt mean it will happen tomorrow but the next 50-200 years.

[@stormship1647]

She cute and eloquent !!..and well done Gary ..great conversation..two good people ..

[@roraio]

Absolutely incredible Interview!!!! 👏🏻 I cannot thank you enough for this series and for educating people about economics and life in general! I also work in law in the City assisting rich people get richer which is very soul destroying when you’re only earning enough to make rent money in London.

[@aislingmcdonald6778]

Well done both of you!

[@hilaryporter7841]

What you are both saying to me is Liz Truss saying 'growth, growth, growth' is meaningless for the majority. Truss is not talking about the majority. Even if the growth occurred, the majority's circumstances would still be deteriorating.The system seems to be to be set up so that distribution becomes more and more disabled and the benefits increase exponentially to the wealthiest. Thank you to you both, I hope millions listen to this video.

[@jaredleemease]

Thank you Steph and Gary, you are both modern day heroes. 😎

[@Joe-ov2nl]

You guys give me hope!

[@josepha8415]

Great informative video 👍

[@anthonylee7477]

Wonderful guest

[@paulward8087]

There's so much wrong with how "national wealth" is managed ... - cap the gap between the lowest paid and the highest paid person in a company - ditch the idea of "income tax" and instead just charge everyone capital gains tax as a single tax with the 12k existing tax free allowance for all - drop all expenses claims that offset tax bills and instead base the tax burden on total wealth gains from all sources - add an excessive wealth tax for corporations and individuals for those reporting excessive profits to dump that excess into the treasury - agree all these rules are part of the WTO standard so tax havens cannot be used to avoid these rules That's just where I would start tearing the system up.

[@40yearoldvirgil15]

2 great people 👏

[@gemmadavies2922]

Start a political party. Be the chancellor. Let’s sort this out. I was a council estate economist who left the City behind for all sorts of reasons and is now a psychotherapist - so much stress is economic. What can we actually do?

[@vnessa01]

This was a really interesting discussion! I hope more people in the financial sector act on their principles like Stephanie has.

[@kevincowan2639]

So that’s a rule in Gary’s house. No shoes on the carpet.

[@edjennings3435]

Bare foot socialism🌹👍

[@richardcoppack5357]

A few years ago, I saw a survey that said personal happiness/contentment grew with annual income up to £120,000, but hardly rose after that. That figure will have risen a bit by now, but it's worth remembering.

[@stuartlawler2411]

They literaly mentioned these propaganda pieces in the vid...think about how easily you bought that lie...120k a year? I live 7miles from glasgow and houses dont even cost 50k a year...in the city, thats like earning 50k a yr...in edinburgh it like earning 30k and in central london its like being on an apprentice wage. They just picked a figure and reverse engineered a studies results to get you tk regurgitate it to comfort yourself. They are always robbing the poor, even when you think you are being entertained, it is actually just robbery of the poor.

[@stormship1647]

Well done Gary

[@melissaelders9773]

I have found both parts very interesting. It got me thinking about the current situation. There will be many people that might only have a few years left on there mortgage but with rates going up they may no longer be able to afford to pay anymore, leading to loss of home. That would be sad if all these people end up in expensive rental properties. It would be good if some of clients could step in and save people from losing their homes. Maybe they could pay them back at a lower rate which they could afford.

[@themarksmith]

Great interview!

[@loveofwisdom55]

So glad to have found your channel, through Owen Jones 😊

[@pauljays1162]

I would like to know Gary's view on UBI.

[@fayatyagay2845]

We need a political movement. The problem is we are socially very much in bubbles where we don’t need to convince the people around you on what is going on. The problem is most of people around me agree but don’t get involved because there is no clear action. They feel hopeless and revert to their lives struggle. Writing to MP is good but it is not a continuous action. When are we marching (while it is still legal)? Where is the petition to sign, where is the party to support? Only consolidated collective action makes yourself seen and makes your voices heard. And seeing the first successes is what makes the doubters join.

[@michaelcorrigan4625]

Great discussion from two people who we are lucky enough to have in this country. In a way, inflation rising rapidly and wages rapidly reducing in value will wake more people up. The balance will tip from those who feel the current structure is advantageous to a majority who feel the current structure is not in their interest. The only way to make politicians do what you want is to not vote for them.

[@mayasouter5709]

This inspired me to take action. I've just written an email that I'll be sending to the five Labour candidates in my region. I'll copy and paste it below as it might trigger ideas for others. (The original email has links but I can't get them to show here): "Good evening Like most of the country, I am anticipating a Labour win at the next general election. Before Labour gets into power, I wanted to add my voice to the rising number of other voices calling for increasing taxes on people earning money from their assets rather than their jobs. As an example, the Duke of Westminster recently inherited £8.3 billion but didn't pay a penny in inheritance tax (currently 40% on anything over £325k). That was due to the money being passed down in a trust which acts as a tax wrapper. HMRC should have charged £3.32 billion in tax but legitimised tax loopholes stopped this from happening. The wealthiest in the UK have £450 billion more in wealth than they did before COVID due to the quantitative easing introduced by Rishi Sunak. That QE also triggered spiralling inflation, affecting almost all of us on a daily basis, with increases in food and energy costs being particularly stark. The wealth is there; it has just shifted in enormous quantities away from ordinary people to the wealthy. It can be pulled back for the benefit of everyone if we introduce higher taxes on wealth and tighten the loopholes. I don't mean to demonise wealthy people as a group in any way. I know many of them deliberately contribute as much tax as they can and contribute hugely to charities, both with time and money. The problem is the way tax policies are implemented and applied, which is a governmental issue. Many millionaires have actually signed an open letter called Proud to Pay More, asking to be taxed at a higher rate to increase wealth equality. In writing this, I'm not expecting any personal response in particular. My goal is to add my voice to the growing tide of public opinion - including many of the wealthy - to help bring it to the daily awareness of those coming into power, and so I'm sending this to you as it seems very likely to be you and the Labour Party. Best wishes"

[@danielspeight9589]

Great to hear the reflections and analysis... sometimes it reads a little vain, constantly referring to how rich you are, which makes it sometimes hard to sit through.

[@anthonylee7477]

Top respect for you

[@josejohnson1791]

I wish our politicians would sit down and talk to people like yourselves. I have family now living back at home because their f.t. pay (minimum wage) does not allow them to rent or buy and furnishings a home. My daughter has a disabled child and finds it so hard as everything for disabled or SEN is all ways a lot lot more expensive.

[@dmd7472]

This is so incredibly vital. Point to another venue where you have two world class voices making this case? Exactly

[@dablackangel]

Love this 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@Jose_Lima]

As the spectator asked, about the movement, if you want something to happen, you need to formalize a Movement, with a clear Law proposal to fix the system as you talk about. And a leader also helps. Otherwise it will be just words in the wind.

[@SnowOps59]

🍻 Stephanie & Gary 👍 Non Doms 😮 WTF! Scrap that for a start 😠

[@stewartjones2173]

In Roman times it was "bread and circuses" now it's burgers and ball games.

[@user-xp1xc4zt5v]

I used to be one of those people who thought that the way out of this is for more investment in businesses, which means more jobs and a better economy. What I was missing was that the rich are not building new assets as the people who would buy the stuff have no money!!!! Would a potential way to get some assets back in the hands of government & working people be to adopt a China business model with state owned enterprise? If we can afford to print £800bn since Covid, could we not use £100bn to start new energy companies that are state owned, do R&D into new technologies to help solve global problems. Would that then increase wages, improve the infrastructure, and lower energy costs for everyone? That works in tandem with wealth taxation, so the rich can't just keep buying up absolutely everything might at least make things improve a little bit. Like I said, I used to be against high taxes on the wealthy but didn't look at investment levels etc. Looking at the whole picture now, I think Gary is correct with what the problem is.

[@optiontrader4512]

Gary you are saying much that is worth while. My thought is focused on setting up a leadership group that would do the same as the wealthy by accumulating funds from the greater mass and using it to expand their investment bases and provide an income flow for them in the same way as the wealthy do. These funds can also be enhanced by the progressive wealthy who wish to change the trajectory of inequality as per Ms Brobbey.

[@lieluo2097]

Just what does “coming together” mean in practice exactly? How do we get the government to tax wealth more? This is all good diagnosis of the problem but we have no solution

[@Adamb87]

We need to make all tax avoidance illegal and corporations that ignore the law must be permanently banned from buying, selling and operating in the U.K. Corporations would be forced to choose paying the tax they owe in full as it will cost them less than permanently losing all the profits they make in the U.K. economy

[@rickatatastan2695]

I used to think it should be as simple as making tax avoidance illegal, then I had to think... Do you know what Tax Avoidance IS? It sounds stupid and obvious, but it's simply avoiding the laws around taxation. If you're not eligible for payment of the tax, you're not eligible. How do you make it illegal to be ineligible? I hope you see, as I do, how difficult that is, though I wish it were different. Bear in mind that the first thing Cameron did when he got into power was to cut 13,000 tax inspectors from HMRC.

[@johntaylor7965]

@@rickatatastan2695 wow I didn't know that 🤦🏾‍♂

[@johnwright9372]

@@rickatatastan2695 You've got it.

[@BrianMcGuirkBMG]

Tax avoidance is the term for avoiding tax in a way that is legal. Tax evasion is for doing so in a way that is illegal. To illustrate how avoidance is legal, it just means to arrange your affairs in a way that avoids paying tax. One example is that if you are only paid if you attend work, then choosing to take a day off unpaid reduces your pay and therefore you don't have to pay tax on the pay you chose to do without. That's tax avoidance. For the wealthy, there are many legal loopholes in the system which can be taken advantage of which allow the wealthy to pay proportionately less tax quite legally but, if we understood it fully, in a way that we would deem it unfair.

[@frankkelly207]

What is Gary's take on green fuel. Even with government intervention, there is no doubt there are many with a vested interest pushing for this to be speeded up with no thought for those affected. His guest mentioned those that are worried about climate change

[@Quasime42]

How many people are in that top 1%? (Is it equivilant to 1% of population? How do we calculate that 1%? ) How do we make that 1% visible and reward them for being "virtuous" ?

[@PoliticalEconomy101]

Owen Jones just posted a video on the future of ownership. Watch it Gary

[@stevebarnett3347]

Should we be counting the new high interest rates as inflation rather than the solution to inflation?

[@alanmalarkey]

In listening it occurs to me that the 7 year rule is arbitrary and anyone with wealth, a family and approaching their mid 50s is obviously going to pass on their wealth and avoid tax. Has anyone seriously questioned it or is it so embedded that it is unrealistic to challenge?

[@annaynely]

Too many foid banks here in spain as well. Gov't putting money towards ngo's like the Red Cross & the poor can get crumbs meantime ppl that work in Red Cross good salaries & the institution gettin richer & richer & acquiring assetts & buildings.

[@bromleyphillips6625]

I have a question: I have seen the list of millionaires in Britain that was published recently in the media and a lot of them are foreigners or people who did not grow up here nor studied in the UK. What does that say about the system? Hasn't talking about 'countries' or 'national identities' or even small communities herebecome redundant?

[@brofrombrum8502]

What “smart communities” are you exactly referring to??

[@bromleyphillips6625]

@@brofrombrum8502 " SMALL communities"

[@frusia123]

It means that the system doesn't care about your nationality. To the rich factory owner you're worth just as much as your Polish or Zimbabwean colleague. When the media is blaming immigrants that's only to direct the frustration of the poor towards some other poor people who can't defend themselves. In the meantime the rich give no heck about your nationality and treat your patriotism as a useful tool of manipulation.

[@MaitreyaNow]

Stephanie mentions paying into pensions. I stopped paying pension a few years ago. How safe are pension funds? In 30 years time or more when I can retire will humanity even exist? If it does will pension funds exist? I have doubts. I get the feeling the money would be better invested in alternative media and community awareness projects such as this so we can influence change that will save us from dystopia. Then maybe personal pensions won't be necessary?

[@bethkirky]

I have the same thoughts, I stopped paying into my pension last year. The government plays with your pension by investing into the stock market, I do not trust the government and would rather have a little bit extra each month as we go into this long recession. I think a lot of people are starting to think the same way.

[@hughiemg2]

@@bethkirky if you don't need the cash every month you really should be paying in to a pension. Pension contributions are made from your salary before tax, so if you don't pay in to a pension you pay income tax before you get the cash.

[@jonathanknight1850]

Good luck with that

[@petebateman143]

It's not that the government isn't listening. Wealth inequality is a political goal for the tories. They give not one toss who suffers as long as they and their supporters are getting richer.

[@gavincutler8889]

Brilliant stuff. You both are absolutely right 100%. Keep going, eventually some politicians might catch up. We can, and must, live in hope.

[@RealDareel]

20:31 when Stephanie says the NHS was a Marxist idea before, it made me realise that is the reason. The biggest reason is not because people demanded as such like Gary says, but because the elite were terrified of communism spreading, without that they prob wouldn’t have given up any wealth. I’m feeling more depressed about things now 😬😅

[@haydnsaunders474]

yes' always thought this. I agree with climate change and weath building we are on a collision course for a revolution.

[@michaelhanson1542]

The banks & big corporates get socialism We get capitalism

[@henryphillips3680]

There are more layers to this though. In the same way the wealth of the rich affects us all, the wealth of people in the wealthy countries is affecting those in poorer countries. People are starving in third world countries because wealthy nations are using the buying power to exclude the poorest people from the commodities they need to survive.

[@tonynolan5406]

i see no reason why the tax code could not be completely rewritten and presented in full to the electorate instead of telling people we will change things when we get in power and it never happening

[@Tochinoki]

"Democratise access to economics" - yessssss

[@Fionnualagh]

Qu.. the phrase nothing about us without us is trending. What about every section of every government and public service requires true diversity. For example the treasury has evenly distributed membership of / from disadvantaged communities, middle and privileged communities as well as different ethnicities that represent real communities and that are all impacted by government decisions.

[@dominiclofthouse7751]

Why would high paid politicians and government officials want to bring a law to action that would directly affect their own bank balance, I want to remain positive but I can’t see something like this coming to fruition

[@Escrublet]

It needs to be, You do this for us or you dont have your power any more. If everyone had knowledge on the topics gary talks about then who would have ever voted tories into power? It was a guarenteed disaster. But somehow those in power all over the globe have managed to somehow convince huge amounts of people that billionaires are good and trickle down economics works and that these people have worked harder then you for their money and that is possible for anyone that pulls themselves by their bootstraps. Go onto a daily mail comment section, there are multiple comments that say benefit cuts are a good thing because we will have more money because they believe that our economy is in shambles because of poor people living on benefits.

[@wibbletthewobblet9558]

The bio needs editing FYI

[@stevea8547]

Two people who are both incredibly intelligent and articulate. And both showing that a truly civilised country looks after its citizens at all levels of society.

[@jacobwortley]

Please make a petition demanding wealth redistribution. Then make all your KZbin buddies talk about it. The government will have to debate it, they’ll ignore it but they will have to debate it in parliament!

[@busandcoach]

There already is redistribution from the poor to the rich

[@mikeharvey9811]

It’s the media and the lobbyists who drive this economic system, they have to be shown (by you?) that it doesn’t work. They will make the change if you can convince them, we’ve tried protest, but we are powerless to change the system, you have to make the rich realise that their cleaners and carers need a fair deal. Barb

[@altGoolam]

Taxation is the lifeblood of the social contract.

[@stuartlawler2411]

The darkest line i have ever heard and she just repeated it, oblivious to what it actually means.

[@TheFrankiebunn]

I like the video and the channel, but let her finish her points

[@martinababio9192]

Couldn’t agree more! I respect and admire his achievements but to be reminded of it constantly becomes jarring! He needs to polish his interview skills by letting his guest speak and him listen!

[@steveward4432]

Government needs to figure out a way of taxing the untaxed. Meanwhile they just increase the tax on what is already taxed.

[@_mcckie]

❣

[@steveward4432]

If only government spent my tax wisely. I will gladly pay more tax if they reduce waste and improve productivity.

[@busandcoach]

Productivity? You mean the poor should work for less? Waste you mean massively over charging and ministers back handing cash to private companies that work for government

[@steveward4432]

@@busandcoach no i mean productivity

[@stevesmith8522]

You have no choice how much tax you have to pay. You have little choice how that tax money is used. You have to have faith in representative democracy, that your elected representative will do the right thing. A well-being economy could be an answer. Some countries are moving that way. Who knows what will work? It’s pretty clear the market isn’t working. Communities can build a new kind of economy. We have to build a system which makes those old systems irrelevant.

[@steveward4432]

@@stevesmith8522 all sounds nice but the county has rarely spent less than it earns. The government therefore borrows money from the market. We can only avoid borrowing from markets if the Uk develops profit. This can be done through more taxation or reductions public sector funding. The uk population has been too focused on their individual rights (to live their life in their own way) rather than their collective responsibilities (live a healthy, simple life and look after your own family)

[@stevesmith8522]

@@steveward4432 we have to start by having conversations. Identify common ground, create a vision based on common, shared values. Everyone has a part to play. How to lead that? Could I lead something like that? I don’t know but I’m going to try.

[@theresahatchett3636]

watch film the mortal Engines

[@dabizness6662]

A million person protest couldn’t stop uk involvement in invading iraq for ‘WOMD’ coming together does nothing, with respect Gary, just give us strategies to minimise tax. Talk in detail how the wealthy tax dodge e.g offshore companies and we the masses (who care) will follow suit

[@rattylol]

For Christmas this year they will be sacking teachers and making class sizes even bigger than the overcrowded ones we have now.

[@larskjar]

As a comment rich people are magicians, not wizards. I.e. the lady has not actually been sawn in half.

[@alexbetts8291]

I keep seeing people say that the big fish cant see how the small fish swim ,,there is another couple of levels down that poor in British standards dont see we have the fish fry of semi functional countries and the fish eggs that dessicate on a dry rock in the hell of a dessert , so how do we come together to give each other nourishment ,warmth ,and purpose,, we have to stop working the jobs ,, that further the elite the day should come that they sell their silverware to pay the bills and fines

[@tropics8407]

‘Giving money to the government is a waste of money’ Isn’t government action causing this rubbish in the first place ? So giving them more money ? Will this be good or worse than ever ? 🤔😅

[@Awwwww-what]

One would assume people aren’t already rioting in the streets is because of possible fear of the virus is still sticking around..

[@alexbetts8291]

Business that fails should never be bailed out by their mates this is fraud and the failures are malignancies in the system that has caught its own tail

[@petermullins6914]

Went the middle class feel it we are in real trouble

[@MrATate-bz1it]

She fit

[@anthonylee7477]

Sign me up

[@icrlp0570]

GIMME A