I Used to Help the Rich Avoid Tax - Part 1 Stephanie Brobbey

"There are more food banks than McDonald's in the UK and when I heard that I just thought I don't I can't continue being part of this system which is essentially designed to keep concentrating wealth and minimizing tax.
A lot of my job was to do a lot of succession planning and advising on asset protection and asset preservation, helping people to pass down assets, their wealth to their families"
Follow Steph on Twitter: / steph_brobbey
Stephs Latest Guardian Article: www.theguardian.com/commentis...
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Guest Appearance by Stephanie Brobbey
FOUNDER of the GOOD ANCESTOR MOVEMENT
Performed by Gary Stevenson
GARYSECONOMICS
Produced by Simran Mohan
MOHAN MEDIA

[@andrewwhitfield5212]

It's like a Monopoly board that never gets reset after the parents stop playing.

[@TomNook.]

I had this discussion recently. For most of the population, they see people earning £100k salary, even £50k salary, as rich - and that is true if they're unemployed or earning min wage, but 100k after tax is actually £5,466 take home pay monthly. Again that sounds huge for someone on min wage, but it's not exactly comfortable, "I can do whatever I want" rich is it? Also bearing in mind that person on 100k still has to travel to work like the rest of us; still has to go to work on a set schedule (and probably longer hours on that salary); and is still at the mercy of their boss. Any day, they can be given notice to leave. And within a few months - that person earning £100k, will be in the same spot as one who is unemployed. To be truly rich, it means having choice without consequences. To wake up every day and have the choice to not work. Not having to stress about more senior staff dictating your position in the company (and hence your salary), or meeting targets. Not having to worry about the economy making your position unsustainable. Not needing to commute if you don't feel like it. Everyone's levels are different, but someone who has passive income to sustain their living costs and any unforseen expenses (breakdowns, emergencies etc.) is far "richer" than someone who is time and energy poor but getting £5k net every month.

[@andrewwalshaw5644]

People also need to realise that as a single Father, I get NOTHING from the Government. I earn £30K in Yorkshire. My ex-wife gets help from the Government and she earns £60K. It’s crazy.

[@123eee]

What you're describing is the difference between working class and capitalists. The rich and powerful have done a great job of eroding our vocabulary and our ability to bring people together by making us think that "working class" means the working poor. The interests of a City lawyer who won't inherit wealth are more aligned with those of their barista than (most likely) those of their boss and (most definitely) their clients.

[@fredatlas4396]

If I'd been on that kind of salary for the last 30 yrs I'd most likely to be able to retire happily with no real money worries at all. It depends on how you look after your money. The vast majority of people in the UK won't really be able to even retire now. And what will happen when they can no longer work because of various health problems, musculoskeletal, overuse injuries, bad back, neck , tendon problems like tennis elbow, wrists, or other health problems. Some people will be past it at say 60, or 65 or if lucky maybe work until 70. And then how long will they have to enjoy life, if they even have enough money. Plus there won't be any safety net as the tories are destroying all of our public services, welfare, NHS etc etc etc Plus a lot of people in Higher payed jobs still have good defined benefits pension schemes

[@aacmove]

People on 100k are relatively better off. They likely have investments, and they are more likely to be financially literate. They will not be on housing benefit or many other kinds of benefit that could drag them over the poverty line. They're already over it. Crying poor me when you are on 100k just means you need to give up the Range Rover and downsize from your 800+k detached non-bijou residence. 2% pay rise on 100k is not the same as 10% on 11.44 minimum wage. With 100k you choose what you spend your money on. People on minimum wage don't get much of a choice. And finally, if you can't be comfortable on 5400 a month, then maybe keep your eyes on the prize and off the Joneses!

[@fredatlas4396]

@@aacmove It called greed and corporate greed. And i imagine usually the higher payed get higher percentage pay rises. I'm on just above minimum wage, and i got just a 3% increase in 2022, in April 2022 RPI inflation rate in the UK was at 8%, so I got effectively a 5% pay cut. Then in April 2023 RPI was 13% and I got just 5% increases. And it looks like the average UK wage hasn't even been keeping up with inflation since about 2009, so I would need a massive pay increase now just to get back to where I was in 2007 in inflationary terms. Plus I don't get any help from the government, no benefits what so ever. But since 2010 the tories have put up the indirect, stealth taxes which disproportionately hurt the poor, and the less well off, people on minimum wage or lower incomes. Council tax going up by 4.5% every year since 2010 and last year it went up by 6.7% & this year up by 6.7%, VAT put up to 20% by the tories since 2010, road fund tax up and now going up every year, fuel duty tax, tax on car & home insurance, tax on energy and water bills etc. And I think it was in about 2018 the economist was saying that people on lower incomes are now paying more tax as a percentage of their overall income than people on higher incomes. And I think that is true when you take into account all the indirect taxes they we all pay, plus the economist isn't a left wing magazine

[@uniteddreamer]

Super rich people don't have an internalised concept of what is "enough"

[@keithcommins]

Why should they have any such concept?

[@Lord-of-Misrule]

It's human nature, it's also why we have an obesity epidemic.

[@uniteddreamer]

@@Lord-of-Misrule it's not human nature.

[@1bluegreen2]

@@keithcommins so they are not part of the reason their kid gets murdered because their car broke down in the "wrong part of town " which is a direct result of underfunded/undersupported areas with poor culture and poor or no values. They THINK they live in a bubble until they smack into the real world by chance. It's important to fix the underbelly of society so everyone can live a respectable life

[@keithcommins]

​@@1bluegreen2 *which is a direct result of underfunded/undersupported areas with poor culture and poor or no values* So why do you think they have "poor values?" Maybe its the fault of the people living there, have you considered that? You CANT fix the "underbelly of society". Because there will always be a certain % of the people in this world who are stupid, lazy, low IQ, unambitious, or for whatever reason incapable of rising above their station. They exist in EVERY country on Planet Earth, without exception. Even the very "pristine" ones. What do you propose be done about this "underbelly?" Throw more money at them? 'Cos that suuuure as hell has worked in the past, hasnt it?

[@RenegadeContext]

It's easy to say "it's not about demonising wealthy people" when you have been lucky to benefit from the system they perpetuate. I have rich friends because of the way I think and the jobs I've had through entertainment. I am not rich, I did not benefit from that system. Do I hate them as individuals? no. Do I hate the attitudes they have toward wealth, education and investment? Fuck yes. It makes it hard to be around them when they talk about the system that benefits them and keeps me down like it's just hard work that got them there. Hard in the same way it's hard to be around racists when they say the problems poor ethnic groups have is their own problem. Wealthy peoples attitudes are akin to racism, it's classism at it's core and it's perfectly socially acceptable

[@keithcommins]

The problems poor ethnic groups have ARE their own problems actually, why is that "racist" to say so? Why is the "the system" keeping you down, how is it doing this, exactly? How have rich people been "lucky" to "benefit from the system they perpetuate?' What system is this? Name it please, and how they uniquely have benefited, and how YOU haven't (what makes them different to you?) What are your rich friends atttitudes to wealth, education and investment - and why are they bad? How do you know they didnt get where they are via just hard work? And whats your solution to the above if its so unfair, communism?

[@chuzzbot]

These unfortunate people with so much wealth, they should be relieved of the terrible burden.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

No, they should pay their taxes and put something back into the kitty, so that others can have a shot at making something of themselves.

[@MikeDuckett1]

I'm late to this video but I must say when I had a local business radio show whenever a tax lawyer came on just asking them to rephrase their comments about legal methods of 'minimising client's tax liability' using 'social contribution' for the word 'tax', had a profound effect on their comfort zone.

[@johnwright9372]

There is a very old legal principle "The Rule Against Perpetuities" which arose from the realization that wealth must be mobile and not be kept in the same hands generation after generation. Then lawyers invented the Trust which avoids almost all of the restrictions.

[@unitedborders3179]

Interesting... Fear plays a prevalent part in maintaining the wealth hoard. Being from a poor background Gary had fears of going back into debt, whilst someone locked into wealth fears missing out on deals. Different motivations governed by fear.

[@matkagrogan5251]

Brilliant conversation Gary! There is one more problem I need to raise, namely how oblivious ordinary people are to all these conundrums related to taxation, inequality etc. Some people know literally nothing about the economy but some are even worse. I'm talking about people who regurgitate all these neoliberal myths like trickle-down theory or believing that how much we are paid is tantamount to how much wealth we create etc That pseudoscience is internalised by people from the working and middle class, by the people who will never get rich. Add on top of that media owned by billionaires and a lack of a proper left-wing voice in British politics after sinking Jeremy Corbyn and the overall picture is really bleak.

[@stephanguitar9778]

This is true. People are voting against their own very real needs and in favour of the petty wants of the mega rich and big corporations thanks to the brainwashing of the right wing media. My mother in law used to hate Thatcher with a passion, now after 20 years of reading the Daily Mail, praises Thatcher, love BJ and truly believes that people on tax credits or any benefits are to blame for all the current ills in the UK.

[@johnwright9372]

Good comment. Jeremy Corbyn was sincere and perceived as a threat by great wealth, hence the disgusting, vicious smears and demonization of him by the right wing media.

[@andresgarciacastro1783]

It's hilarious to hear them talk about "generating wealth" when they speak about cripto or rents... More like vacuming wealth...

[@petercliffe714]

I just opened Twitter to share this and saw that the new chancellor - whose property wealth is estimated to be around £100m - is under investigation by HMRC. Great interview and really well timed, too.

[@bencobley4929]

He's screwed :D

[@stephanguitar9778]

@@bencobley4929 We hope.

[@lindalong5052]

yes,whatever happened to that investigation? sunak is prime minister now...

[@johnwright9372]

Budget cuts left HMRC without enough resources to properly investigate anything. Now the fox is in charge of the henhouse what do you think will happen?

[@owenaylward]

What was the outcome 😅

[@desmondmccabe8321]

we have to realise and understand that in a fundamental way we give permission to the rich to be rich - resources belong to all of us - but we are confused into thinking that the rich give us permission to exist when it is the other way round

[@standleymt]

So you sit around doing nothing and someone else works their arse off - how are you giving them permission to use resources or own assets through their hard work, except through passive laziness?

[@88steps81]

​@@standleymt have you listened to the video you're commenting on? The fact is, average person works longer and harder for minimal wages, meanwhile if you're millionaire, you are earning big money off of your wealth, not work. Please tell me how getting money from renting and interest rates is hard work. You can literally hire people for the minimal wages to take care of your properties or other assets and just wait for the money landing in your account doing absolutely nothing.

[@nitzerebbandflow]

Stephanie's story is so interesting. If she wanted to do another interview, would love to hear more about what she does now. I appreciate how you make economics tangible.

[@garyseconomics]

There will be more of this in the second half of the interview when it goes up!

[@DrSomhairle]

very interesting, agree we should have a wealth tax, and remove loopholes which allow the wealthy to avoid tax.

[@victoriavelvet3689]

How do people this rich tell themselves job seekers allowance of £70 is ok!

[@stephanguitar9778]

That figure has gone up by a whole £10 in 20 years.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Easily. They think we are less human, less important and less deserving than they are.

[@benmcmenamin4851]

Lucky to get anything at all tbh, I would imagine in the rest of the world that the majority of people don’t get anything at all if they do not work.

[@julies2633]

The writer Gore Vidal when he was running for office in the 1980s in the USA - over 40 years ago - stated that both the poor and the rich received government help - a negative connation of welfare for the poor and the never mentioned tax breaks for the rich. Need to tighten up tax laws in the UK. Once and for all. Great conversation. Glad that I found Gary on KZbin's Novara Media.

[@1bluegreen2]

I think people who don't have a lot of money need to spend some time in a wealthy family and visa versa.....sp people can get a fair understanding of each other's positions

[@betalhimasres4703]

I’m obsessed with your channel !!!

[@zethkarrade]

Love your work mate. I'm not sure if the ' I don't hate rich people' is more of a messaging thing or a genuine remark, but I think it's fine for the poor and lower middle to hate the rich, or at least the super rich. They may be 'nice' and polite and socially aware, but if they're benefitting from the system at the cost of poor lives and livelihoods, the onus is on them to realise that. Being nice doesn't cancel out destroying lives. But yeah, love your work.

[@bogdiworksV2]

absolutely. I like how she said that the rich were feeling guilty and confused about how to help. Maybe working towards levelling the economic field as a start?

[@Enormous866]

I agree

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Yes indeed. Mr Musk fired a car into space. How much did that cost, and what could he more usefully have done with that money?

[@traceyjohnson2736]

Fantastic guest.. thanks for another great video. I love that you are both talking from perspective of coming from “ordinary backgrounds”.. and that you still manage to acknowledge that wealthy people are human… it’s just that we’re all locked in our roles..like what’s happening is just inevitable.. but it’s not! More videos please. I’d like one a day in an ideal world!! Keep working Gary!! But seriously.. these conversations are vital..and appreciate them a lot!

[@garyseconomics]

Thanks Tracey!

[@knightyknight5399]

This is an eye opening..The system is screwed up ..

[@88steps81]

Hey Gary, i love your content. I'm from Poland and we are suffering more and more from what you are describing. Lets hope for the best

[@maverick5039]

It does not matter whether you are from a poor or a rich background, we all taught from a very young age about money, and wealth, land, property and "stuff" will give you a better lifestyle choices, but what is missing is peace of mind. We all taught that if you have no money you are a no-one, so its money that decides whether or not we are a valued part of society. Then people wonder why the world is in the state that it is in. Because if there were no poor there would be no rich.

[@jaredleemease]

Thank you Steph and Gary, you are both modern day heroes. 😎

[@nitzerebbandflow]

Fantastic interview! When you said you felt "shocked and upset" about realising how much money these people earned compared to your parents, that's how I feel over and over again when I come across the odd rich or even very wealthy person in my own job. Thank you as always for your videos.

[@baits9301]

Polititions in Australia have a property portfolio , That's why they keep the housing ponzi going at all cost . So much for conflict of interest .

[@alphaomega1089]

...how do I protect versus how to spend it... She is right about many wealthy individuals don't understand distribution of wealth. Money isn't an asset that needs hording. It is designed to make your life more comfortable.

[@hazmatproduction4562]

This was a very insightful conversation Gary. Thanks for all the work you do to spread this message. I’m not even close to being as educated in economics or successful in the finance industry as you (I took economics to A level & work in book keeping), but have long known that our system is grossly imbalanced in favour of those with wealth. It really is so important that more people understand the subject you talk about on this channel. Keep up the good work & I will keep sharing

[@royalalloy3471]

Very true, I'm in the 99th percentile of UK wealth and I don't feel rich. Comfortable maybe but definitely not rich. When you extrapolate the data out to globally if you earn over $37k you are the 1%...its all personal

[@alexbetts8291]

Stephanie you are an important part of change as you have a portal into the parallel world of law and this is so far out of view from the public realm,, i never ran my little company trying every sideways tax move or borrow monies, i never paid myself a dividend either as i wanted it to stay out of debt ,, it got destroyed by the dwp at the start of covid

[@paulryan1643]

Stephanie is amazing. Gary please give her a regular spot to explain the privileges and access to tax efficiencies that the seriously rich have....ie Family Trusts, Offshoring, Family Offices, EIS, Dutch Sandwich, Debt Leverage, Build To Rent schemes etc etc etc

[@keithcommins]

What do you propose be done to stop those "privileges?" How do you stop someone putting their money in a Cayman Islands bank account, of British Virgin islands company, which in turn is owned by a trust in Belize? There isnt anything you cant do. And rightfully so. They should have every right to hold onto their money.

[@frauic]

I just moved to London from Asia and my first impression was that "The country feels so poor now!" - very different from what I remember when I did my degree at the LSE which was in the early 2000s). My other impression is that the vibe here is that people are focussing on "saving" rather than "producing" - maybe because they don't see a point because as soon as people start to accumulate a little wealth - not a lot and could well be just sufficient to give them a little bit more experience (vacations overseas for example) or to live comfortably after retirement - a big chunk of this "wealth" will get taken away! To the super/ultra-rich, this could be negligible but to the ordinary people, it isn't! And the government seems to think that going after people who earns £55000+ a year is the way to go for running the country!

[@bogdiworksV2]

Listen, I have no qualms with hating rich people, because if I work my entire life and I can't even secure a shelter, then people who can, just by the fact that they were better placed socially and economically from the getgo, then those are my enemies. Most rich people have no interest in changing the system - if they had, the system would have been changed already.

[@simonloder4964]

Hi Gary, you’re a breath of fresh air. I’ve just found you through James O’ Brien Full Disclosure. I’m currently listening to your book on Audible and watching your videos on KZbin. Do you do any work with schools nationwide to educate the upcoming younger generation to get the message out about how the poor are becoming poorer because of the super wealthy? They need to know how the system works in the real world.

[@pheebsbrx1603]

This ancient proverb "Sweet is the sleep of the one serving, whether he eats little or much, but the plenty belonging to the rich one does not permit him to sleep." shows that that our unselfish purpose (coupled with sufficiency) is more conducive to contentment & self respect than an overabundance (& keeping up with the Jones). Your ideas, Gary, about how to solve economic imbalance as you've explained on your site are similar in principle to the Jubilee system which kept land & property in all families. This system enabled the writer of the proverb to enjoy their chosen purpose in life.

[@joseywales2740]

Thanks for continuing to put out such top tier content Gary. Sharing far and wide.

[@mattsennett]

Great guest Gary and full credit to Stephanie for what she is doing 👍🏻

[@richardcoppack5357]

It's okay if rich people don't sell their assets, but only if the "cake" is getting bigger. In other words , the number of assets is growing. The problem at the moment is that the cake has stopped growing.

[@Ianpact]

Thank you, Stephanie Brobbey and Gary.

[@almafrith778]

Thank you, Gary, very informative podcast. Respect to you for keeping the public informed.

[@bigdaz7272]

"..people with so much wealth find it a burden they don't know what to do with it..." Thats a simple one, just stop offshoring it and abusing Tax Loopholes to avoid your Taxes for a kick off and stop investing in, donating to or doing business with organisations you know are fucking others over.

[@andrewwalshaw5644]

Exactly. It remains too easy for anybody living in the UK to send money abroad without paying any tax. I’ll probably be called racist and end up serving time in jail for this comment; but on a daily basis I see Pakistani men and women depositing large cash amounts at my local PO. No questions asked as it’s a Muslim PO. Funny that.

[@andrewwalshaw5644]

Also, to level-it-up: I knew a guy who tried-out in the Caymen Islands. A white boy. Couldn’t handle the tax haven and what it stood for.

[@BigHenFor]

You really need to study the psychology of wealth. Until you do, you will not understand how much pressure there is to keep things as they are. Firstly, Private Wealth Management is an industry, where money is made by those in it by providing services to the mega wealthy. For example, think about the person who won the £134m Euromillions Jackpot. How would you manage that money? Who would take advice on how not to waste it? How much would that advice cost you? You see with that level of wealth, you can't pop down to your local bank and open up an account, deposit it, and say you're done. Why not? There's insurance limits on individual bank accounts, where compensation is capped to £86,000 if the bank goes bust. Plus, it needs to be protected, especially from people ripping you off. How do you do that. Look what the banks did to Noel Edmonds and other people... Having that kind of money is a responsibility because it can do so much good, but it can also cause so much misery. TLDR: If you think all wealthy people are your enemy, you should learn about them as they are. Learn about how wealth and the wealthy mindset, because they are not going away, and you need to change their culture and mindset, so that the ones who can live with more redistribution of wealth accept it. The ones that won't change their minds, and that can live with destroying other people lives so that they can accumulate more, for the sake of accumulating more, for the sake of just keeping score, as in empire building, these are the ones endangering our societies.

[@bogdiworksV2]

@@BigHenFor maybe one should've have wealth they can't personally manage, eh? Why does anyone need £143m?

[@jimdavis8391]

Nothing wrong with wealth at all, everything wrong with selfishness. If you have riches, spread them around!

[@sahandkaveh]

Completely disagree. Greed is a result of a society where inequality and individuality thrive. Wealth in our society is the mechanism by which this type of society is upheld. You can keep blaming individuals for acting in the way they do in a given context but you'll live a disappointed life wondering why things don't change if you don't understand how structures impact people.

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

@@sahandkaveh And yet Communism was tried and failed.

[@sahandkaveh]

@@oldishandwoke-ish1181 typically the type of black and white thinking that stops you from being critical. Who even mentioned communism 😅

[@keithcommins]

@@sahandkaveh Eh, because what else will it be if you have a situation where "everyone is equal". How else do you propose it happen, other than via communism? Despite your ideas having a 100% failure rate whenever they have been tried, you are STILL at it, STILL advocating for them. Not think thats kind of sad mate?

[@_mcckie]

Would love to see more of these! 💛

[@sierrasukalski2133]

Where do you all think that being able to invest in the commons, the built environment, as a basis for solidly providing at least food, water, and shelter, for everyone, in a way that the government cannot touch to turn into a commodity later, comes into this? On the individual level, living is expensive, especially when you're human. Caretaking needs aren't going to magically disappear any time soon. However, in collective action, and technological advancement, we've had the chance to providing for ourselves and others, when if we were going it alone, it might very well kill us early just trying to take care of ourselves. Technology, in particular, has so much potential in the task of providing anyone who needs it, the basics, and taking over repetitive tasks in a seamless way, blending into the environment. Instead, we dissected whole systems, and created fragments that pollute, in the inhumane push to scale up, because that was the only way to protect the system from predators destroying it. Or, we were letting the predators run the show outright, and, of course, they took advantage. Everyone else has been left trying to figure out how to make these predators, and their destructive behavior, work for them, despite the grim destruction involved. What we hear, is an outsized number of apologists for a bad system, instead of the design changes that would fix things. Resource scarcity is a very real thing, but at some point, what we're looking at is not resource scarcity at all, but rather bad design, especially, things designed not for the people, or the environment, or other living things, but for profit. And, it is past time that we collectively acknowledged that about one in five people are living with some kind of illness or disability, children and elderly exist, and basically, taking care of our humanity, means taking care of people. We are not an able bodied, able minded society who respond positively to stress, and pressure, and desperation. That breaks people. And the thing is, you can have an incredible network of people who feel supported, and empowered to do what they are called to, and what they can. You can create for us all, amazing things, for the love of people who on the surface, seem to present a need, or a problem. Or, you can get what we have, people isolated, and afraid, lying as long as they can, working well past their limits, so they aren't discarded and degraded. Then there are all the other people working at 120%, convinced that there will never be enough help to take a breather, to take stock, to acknowledge their own wounds, and burn out. They get to buy into a culture that tells them they are the last good boys and girls standing, as long as they never tell the truth about their pain, and they never stop. We already know what the unsustainability of this looks like: Death, and silenced suffering, and a lot of it. The thing is, we know a bit about wanting to do something to help, or to change the world, and there being no way to monetize it. We also know the flip side, jobs that shouldn't exist, that ought to be vaporized tomorrow, if the gods were smiling, that only exist for the money (and maybe sadism), and we've been encouraged to take them. Then, there are also plenty of people with jobs they think might be great, except they have to let profit into the equation. Every way you look, the story is sort of the same: We can't do what needs to be done because of the money. So where is what we've been dreaming of, periodically pushing to achieve, with all our labor, a world where everyone has a living, and we prosper on top of that robust baseline? It's trapped in patents that are squirreled away, land use, and ownership structures that are constantly minimized and attacked, political policies for sharing, and justice, and respect, that are de-fanged and shelved. It is in the support for civil rights, welfare, and abuse victims, that is fought against tooth and nail. But, also, at its most basic, it is in taking away the commons, and criminalizing people with nowhere to go, and no standing left. Really, we could have food forest wildlife corridors. We could have shelter available to everyone, and appealing just as much to the average person visiting downtown, and a traveler, as someone with no money, and no way to procure more. In fact, the whole framing of that last sentence sounds ridiculous, which is how it should be! Big projects, dirty projects, which cost lives, what have they built for us? If we take the tack of looking forward, how can we get out of this pernicious habit of normalizing spending people's lives in vain? Surely, that much is not beyond us. Sorry for the rant. Buttoning up now.

[@sssssinead]

Brilliant analysis..thank you both so much for sharing this information.. One day I'd love to see you both as Ministers in a progressive libral Government.. 💞

[@richardcoppack5357]

Good to hear Stephanie speak. What an interesting person.

[@gqsey]

Great videos! Thank you for content you make it's really helped me learn so much. I noticed that the audio is slightly quiet and is hard to pick up when listening through laptop and phone speakers. Would be great if it was louder/mastered properly. Much love

[@nls8508]

Great video. Thanks for the upload, Gary.

[@jayjay-zb8zg]

Shes very sensible great guest gary mate Have a good 1 lad keep pushin

[@mrjohncharlesbrown]

Gary..I went to work for my dad at age 12 for pocket money, I left school to work for him in his little sweatshop engineering business in a council lockup.., he came from a poor family of 15, I was born in West Ham we moved to South Woodford and then to Chigwell, no private school, for me ....just a comprehensive school, no one else in his family made any money, I was lucky I had a dad like mine, we worked and worked and worked to get away from the poverty, he said to me so ... I hope you never have to put your hand in the bucket of shit I had to, I'm comfortable I'm frightened of losing it all.....what does that make me ? I have assets of 3.5 million no debt... I consider that rich...we live a nice life, but it's taken 50 years to get to where I am, it's only took you a few years and good luck to you, perhaps that's why your feel guilty...but what do you class me ? privileged? I'm terrified of being poor, I am 67 I'm still working in business I have a few properties, I'm grateful to have a passive income of £60,000 so I consider that very wealthy and that's all I need or want, but I don't want to lose it, I want to pass it on, does this make me a bad person

[@SimonHough-hz8wp]

I don't think so at all. I don't classify you as super rich at all. Well off after working for it! Great discussion.

[@travis3430]

From working class people you get the 'oh, politicians are all the same, just in it for themselves etc'...well yeah they are, but there's levels to this!!! Just walk around your local town centre, including a couple of Streets back & then compare it to 10-15 years ago & you'll have your answer as to what's happening to the living standards of the ordinary man. Just think of the boarded up pubs ago. No one has that level of spare money for a beer anymore!

[@oldishandwoke-ish1181]

Too many working class folk believe the Tory media which are tailored to tickle their prejudices and re-direct their righteous anger and resentment.

[@RyanONeilKnight]

Wow truly enjoyed this conversation!

[@vimo8109]

Great interview! Thanks for exposing this aspect of wealth Gary. Get your feet off the chair xx

[@steffen1405]

Great conversation!

[@skippythemagnificent8103]

Fascinating talk, many thanks.

[@uniteddreamer]

The question rich people need to be asked is why they need to make more money and why they don't believe in reducing the excess wealth they can never spend in several lifetimes. And if they do believe in reducing that wealth, ask them how they are doing this.

[@SkyEcho7]

👍🍻 Gary 👍🍷 Stephanie Looking forward to Part 2 Where are people on a minimum or 'living' wage supposed to live? The costs to the public purse of this issue alone not being resolved are HUGE.

[@jduncan4637]

This really resonates with me. I studied law in order to get into human rights, but ended up working in PE because I couldn't really afford to do human rights law. I was never naive to the reality of the industry though. It took about a month before I realised the extent to which the pension fund industry is involved in asset stripping and real estate speculation.

[@SimonHough-hz8wp]

Around 26mins is just gold!

[@dmd7472]

Liked. Shared. Here’s my comment. Absolutely loved this discussion. Real put the kids to bed and carve out some quality time to listen

[@TheSockWomble]

MP in the making ! We need people with real life experience that could be either of you 👍

[@simaasvadi6853]

Thanks Gary. Very interesting conversation. In essence the same dynamics has been ( & still is) in place between rich and poor countries as well; through colonial empires.

[@makalu69]

Anyone on PAYE is already paying MORE than enough tax. The focus should be on those that don't pay tax this way because that is where all the loopholes exist that only the rich have access to. Unfortunately their pursuit of power and greed has no limits. These people are the biggest problem. How is it even possible that a multi-millionaire can legitimately get away with paying less tax than I do?

[@garyhodgson3042]

There’s some genuine and good people here. Thank you 😊

[@lunchymunchy2984]

Great video, I was trying to explain to my friend about taxing wealth over income but making a real mess of it... we might know someone who occasions some cash in hand work and my friend figured that the tax revenue missed by work like this would be significant and that dodging tax in this way was the same as the super rich avoiding tax on wealth income, from a moral perspective. I countered that this type of work done alongside a regular paye job may be necessary for some low income workers... I know you’re a busy guy but have you any thoughts on this? Is it even a video? Idk.. Either massive thanks to you for all you’re doing.✌️💕💫

[@BoogieBrown]

Brilliant conversation! I'd love to know more about the mechanics of what she did 🤔 That ending was abrupt! I had to watch it twice to make sure if it really ended on an Eastenders cliffhanger?!

[@garyseconomics]

Haha a few people have said this - second half coming up shortly

[@Mouldhead]

Gary I love the way you communicate! Real world economics. How do you explain the fact though that of the lists of say the super-rich, 85% are new entrants/1st generation wealthy? So by that logic 85% of the richest from a generation ago ARE losing ground/selling assets/becoming less wealthy?

[@sandworm9528]

Hi Gary, that only makes sense in a zero sum world. If someone finds a new gold mine on their farm land, they and their family are now super rich, without any other rich people losing money. As you might guess the number of billionaires is increasing not decreasing. This isn't a comment on what's right or wrong about the world, just wanted to point out a flaw in your logic

[@ltownandfriends4531]

there is nothing wrong with maintaining wealth. its actually a good thing. This practice does not stop others from gaining wealth. its not a 0 sum game. there is still tons of land that can be developed globally

[@youtubeaccount2302]

Great guest, great interview!

[@davidmccabe4041]

In a few words - earn as much as you can to give away as much as you can. David McCabe chartered accountant Dublin ireland

[@discokitchen7053]

Maybe HMRC should pay people to apply and then reject jobs in the tax 'efficiency' industry. Would make their recruitment process frustrating, costly and hilarious.

[@widebleek8138]

This was going round in circles. It would nice if this interview was straight to the point from the beginning.

[@araventerpriseservicespllc289]

All of his videos are like this

[@peteredwards2318]

See, I'm skint, right? But if the last twenty years of my life hadn't been completely financially futile, and I had earned what Gary did (albeit through physical labour), I can promise that not having to wonder whether I can make rent or put money on the meter would have made me A LOT less stressed🤣 the last thing I would have been concerned with, was keeping as much of it as possible.

[@ethelmini]

I was there, by sheer good fortune I now own my home outright. Not only am I in an infinitely better position emotionally, I'm also rewarded for my good fortune through being paid extra for paying (money I no longer need for rent) in to a pension that allows me to avoid paying tax. The system is skewed towards the haves for sure.

[@davidminnis3336]

The thing that gets me when it comes to taxing the rich is that as a society, the people that have been involved and contributed to the wealth of rich people and corporations pay tax which benefits society as a whole. So why is it taboo for rich people to pay their fair share of tax for the betterment of the same society that has enriched them. You are making the lives of normal, hardworking people harder. When they have helped you to be wealthy. It's immoral. A healthy, progressive society is better for the word.

[@davideyres955]

Is it me or did no single person get grief from the Panamar papers? Plenty of people in there making lots of tax free investments and creaming plenty of money out of people.

[@CertifiedSlamboy]

Nothing more working class than having a cuppa on the go at all times. Great stuff as always, Gary.

[@googlemechuck4217]

More 70k earners need to buy houses in the hood at bottom prices, force out the local dwellers. Happens all the time in Seattle. 600sq ft shanties from the 1930s sit on a property lot 4x building size. Down goes the building up goes the 4 quad town homes. Not primarily but unequally in the ethnic black neighborhoods.

[@VickyDPi]

Great guest, excellent material. more like this please Gary! Give her slippers next time though haha.

[@feelingjustfine]

I see part of the problem that lower classes see wealth as having money in the bank whereas upper see it as having assets. As long as people keep striving towards just getting the bank to a certain level they won't be rich/have wealth. Wealth means having security and that is something only the individual can answer based solely on their situation. We need to change the perception that wealth means having a big bank balance(what I would call relative wealth), and work more on what can we do to enable security and stability for our own lives as people who are not ever going to be able to earn lots or most importantly, inherit money.

[@elwynjones763]

Gary. what is your take on the ''degrowth'' concept and campaign taking off in Europe?

[@tr1sh2tom]

Nice.

[@the_black_douglas9041]

Gary, great series. Can you talk about the BHS fallout? As I understand it, Philip Green had a strategy to solve the £571 million pension hole by offloading BHS (completely legally) to a useful idiot called Dominic Chappelle, knowing he would fail and the UK taxpayer would foot the bill, including £8 million to a couple of advisers who also knew this would be the result. This was all completely legal apparently. Why?

[@seymssogood]

Hey, the video cut off before the end? Really interesting and informative video!

[@garyseconomics]

Did it cut off before 29 minutes?

[@JohnnyMotel99]

@@garyseconomics It's a bit abrupt, but I think that is because it was tricky for the editor to wrap it up inside 30 minutes

[@garyseconomics]

OK got it. Yeah the whole interview was I think nearly an hour. So we split it into two parts. The second half will also go up at some point soon.

[@alexbetts8291]

Yeah, what is help to someone? What dose it do ? Do you eat help do you wear it ? Dose it set you up for a period of time or indefinitely? is it a mental comfort or time to take a breath ? Dose the act of kindness help

[@Skylark_Jones]

Interesting conversation so far. Yes, I get that the richest 1% are human beings with issues fears guilt etc. However, they're in a very good position to do something about it: they have the wealth the means, access to the best advisors and consultants and so on. To say "they don't know what to do"? I do not think that credible when poor & ordinary people with hardly a pot to piss in, who have to work hard to raise donations for campaigns and protests manage to do it - indeed, the fact that poor & people have had to fight for decades- even centuries - for more of the crumbs from off their table is very telling, they put the rich to shame. Are you honestly saying wealthy people, with all their riches, can't do the same- make a very open vociferous and forceful protest for a Wealth tax? And as I've pointed out before: you must be or have been in touch with rich people like yourself: why don't I see them on your show promoting a Wealth tax? I put it to you, that for all their guilt, the reason is that the very wealthy do NOT want to sacrifice or give up any of their wealth - why would they, when it's such a cushy life? I look at the representatives of the wealthy like the Tory government who have done so much in the last 12 years to create an even bigger gap between rich and poor. Where were the guilty rich then? Were they lobbying against the government to try and stop it? Somehow I doubt it. So forgive me for not feeling sorry for these poor "woe is me" little rich people you're talking about. If they joined you on your show, I may feel more sympathy.

[@mattsennett]

The point is they don't have to due to UK laws. If I didn't have to pay tax on my salary for example then I wouldn't. Our government needs to create tax laws where the rich pay more as why should they if there are legal ways around it. It doesn't even need to be at crazy high percentage rates either as the revenue that could be created from the top 1% would still be massive and help this nation out in a huge way.

[@bigdaz7272]

@@mattsennett They should take the moral and personal responsibility even if it is legal for them to use loopholes to avoid Tax instead of the mindset the Greed is good. Simple example from my perspective i have taken the personal and moral responsibility for Years to NOT shp at Amazon because of the way they treat their staff and the damage it has done to mom & pop stores. Yes often i will pay a little more or sometimes have to make a real effort to find said item elsewhere or an alternative ect, its not illegal to shop at Amazon, there are no Laws preventing or deterring me i choose to because i think it is the right thing to do. (i have bought maybe 3 things from them in the past 3 Years iirc so not perfect but not bad)

[@uniteddreamer]

@@mattsennett people need to recognise that their wealth is a stake in the world. And if they value their moral integrity, they need to prioritise how that wealth is invested to further those moral returns, even over financial returns. That includes even which banks you leave your money in. That also includes the concept of LOSING excess wealth to achieve those moral returns.

[@bogdiworksV2]

@@bigdaz7272 you're right, since loopholes are legal, a big chunk of people (even the poor) don't even consider their morality or lack thereof. I always remind people the slavery was legal for a very long time.

[@despatrick5602]

Don’t forget though, wealthy people still do carry risk and have the expertise to be able to invest in the way they do. These day people have opportunities to be able to generate their own wealth but don’t for whatever reason.

[@mdg2576]

I get what they're saying but if your wealthy etc, should you not pass that wealth down to your children if you can ? What is the alternative ?

[@xavierh658]

Universal inheritance? As in big tax on inheritance and everybody get an equal sum of money when they reach adulthood.

[@lowland1]

Us normal people are told that we are insured up to 80000 with money in the bank, so we would have to split a huge amount up to different bank accounts. But where do millionaires park their cash because there aren't enough banks to split it up so much

[@Funtimes874]

Nice vid! Gary 👋🏼 you say you are rich? What do you do with you wealth? Buy assets?

[@garyseconomics]

Yes. That's what all rich people do with their wealth!!

[@callumharper3281]

When you say the top 1% have 3.5mil, is that cash in the bank, or 3.5mil in assets? (Net wealth)

[@garyseconomics]

It's net wealth

[@callumharper3281]

@@garyseconomics Thanks man. Smashing your vids atm. You're a good man ✊

[@garyseconomics]

@@callumharper3281 no worries boss

[@zerokumo]

I agree that the game is getting much harder to play, as in people who have more capital than me, will accumulate more asset than me, and because they have acquired more assets and at a faster rate, it is going to make it harder for me to acquire assets. When you say we do need a system reform, I do agree. But when you simply say tax the rich, how do we define rich, where is the cap, how is it done. I am by no means rich, but if you are simply telling society that we will tax if you are rich, then what is the point of me trying hard to make a better living for myself and my family, because i know be punished for doing well. I think true capitalism is when if one person really really work hard, you can make a better living, and accumulate assets, but you cant do that in UK. When you move up the corporate ladder, and say you making 100k, you really effectively only make 50k (i know that sounds a lot, but it really isnt), effectively, is like i have been working so hard to move up, taking more responsibility more time away from family but i dont make much more than a junior level staff. And as you get older, you have more responsibility, and your disposable income is even fewer than when you only made 30k a year. Taxing the wealthy, might be only part of the solution, but i think its able making it possible for ordinary people to compete in society, giving them an opportunity to accumulate wealth.

[@helphelpimbeingrepressed9347]

13:50 That moment when you realise the hunger games is actually quite realistic 🤪

[@stephanguitar9778]

Stephany knows far more than she can say, I suspect for very good reason. Very few people shine a light into the doings of the very rich. The other issue re 'government not getting enough taxes to run services etc' is quite deliberate in the UK with the current government. After all the vast majority of the tory MPs and the members of the tory party are in the very same position of wanting to protect and increase their wealth no matter what the consequences for society are. I think some shocks are on the way with potential mass protests and disobedience with energy poverty on top of housing poverty and food poverty when it gets to the point that millions of people just wont be able to pay the gas as well as the food and rent (to the landlords who collectively are putting their rents up far faster and higher than wage rises)

[@andrewwalshaw5644]

Absolutely my friend. I think civil unrest and riots will happen before the end of the year.

[@vvwalker7261]

You need to get someone on this show who will challenge your view. The way you present this issue is too basic. The majority of people that pass on inheritance have already paid tax on it via income tax, so taxing them again will be massively unpopular. You never say how the middle class aren't going to be trapped by your idea of taxing wealth transfer

[@jukebox2568]

Can you elaborate on what you’ve said?

[@pascalr57]

The person who receives that inheritance hasn't paid tax, it's an income to them. Your employer pays tax on their wealth then you pay tax. Same principle. The midle class aren't the rich people he's talking about.

[@grantbeerling4396]

In a sense nothing has changed since the times of industrial capitalism of Marx, and as Piketty concluded the only time the continued accumulation of everything by the top 1% stopped was via two world wars; 1910 top 1% owned around 90% of everything, by 1945 that had dropped to 25%, now according to Piketty it's about 75% and increasing rapidly. So the choice for Government ( ie us by voting and campaigning) is to; a) Regulate the banking system as per post 1914 and 1929 ( all overturned by 1986 big bang and 1988 abolition of rent caps) b) World War c) Revolution by the masses ie 1789, 1917 d) The Nordic model of the 1930's, mass strikes for years until the agrarian party saw the light of right wing fascism and rejected it for socialism think middle England voting for the left (and PR, open government by law, rule of law). Note; now evolved into a mix of socialised welfare and free market capitalism, the trick is placing each model in the right and effective place, always a continuing battle ( not a bad thing, humanity's fight is to evolve alaway in flux), but this battle was lost in the 1970's in the UK and US. As you stated it's all about a present or near past comparison and ultimately it's political will over the markets, at present the tail is wagging the dog.

[@grantbeerling4396]

Intergenerational wealth is the sole reason for inheritance tax, thus is the period of 1945-70 it was so high and yet effective to the point that we had the narrowest wealth gap ...ever. Because at 'up to 95%' Inheritance tax meant the offspring of the landed wealthy, like the rest of us had to make their own mark/living rather than getting free money through the accident of birth, it's as straightforward as that. Again the Nordic model, a happier society is created when there is a closer income equality and each generation makes its own way by its own effort the real 'we are all in it together' (not Cameron's big society, when he had held offshore savings via his Father, f*cking hypocrite).

[@briansmith7256]

In fact working class people are being attacked from two directions. Yes from above ( the wealthy buying up assets) but also from below as uncontrolled immigration brings added competition for low paid jobs and accommodation.

[@elwynjones763]

Granma dies; leaves me her 3 bedroom house. I cant afford to buy a house but now I have one to live in, but I cant live there because my work and life is elsewhere. So all I can do with this asset is to sell it. A similar house is left to 2 children. To share the inheritence the asset must be sold. This is not an uncommon scenario. Scale it up to millions of houses inherited by millions of offspring.......what is good or bad about this scenario? I assume all are subject to pay inheritance or capital gains tax.

[@j.t2133]

There is good debt and bad debt. There is a fundamental difference between the two.

[@Guide504]

'Lived experience' ... as opposed to things you have experience while not living? If you have experienced something you were both alive and present. If you have heard about, read or become vicariously aware of something then you have not 'experienced it'.This phrase triggers me!

[@johnrandle8365]

Its not hating the person who is rich everyone wants to be comfortable its the love of money , That's the root of all that can cause pain when tax avoidance becomes a way to avoid paying into the system that supports the economy that falls onto those that pay taxes , The working man who isn't given a fair share of the wealth that support this system?

[@coopsnz1]

How much is going to poltical class , left party lie