GAUGE THE ISSUE: Keep The Guard On The Train

[@colinjones2974]

Just a point to highlight, that getting rid of guards and station staff, results in the need to employ more transport police. Is the fact that Melbourne Metro which went Driver Only Operations in 1995 and at that time had no police stations at their railway stations, now has 216 staffed police stations at their railway stations.

[@ChristheXelent]

Good point, which in this country would likely not get funded

[@prioryrail3675]

As a railway worker I would like to say thank you for making this. Its the most sensible explanation of the situation I have seen in the past year.

[@ChristheXelent]

Thankyou for tuning in. I hope it helps your cause more than hinders it. Feel free to share it amongst your colleagues; and Union members if you're in one of them.

[@metropod]

I am a New York Subway conductor and people really do underestimate what my responsibilities end up being. I am not just there to push a few buttons and yell into the PA when someone decides to stand in the doorway. I am the eyes and ears of my supervisors. If a problem occurs, even very minor ones, they almost always have to go through me to get to the right people. If I see someone doing something dangerous, it is my responsibility to report it. One thing you didn’t mention and that doesn’t get mentioned often in general, is how I am also a safety check on the train operator. For example, I have a list of circumstances where I am required to pull the emergency brake, based on the operator’s actions. Six that get pulled immediately and six that get pulled at the next station stop. From major things like not stopping at a station and looking like they are unfit for duty, to minor things like leaving the terminal before being given the proper signal to proceed.

[@MrXbow4300]

When the world needed him most he returned

[@n1thmusic229]

I revisited your channel literally 2 days ago for the first time in a couple months to see if you released any new Guage the Issue videos and now I get this surprise. Well done and also good job explaining the topic well

[@ChristheXelent]

Thankyou for being so patient with me. And thankyou for tuning in, hopefully this will mean a gradual return to normality

[@n1thmusic229]

@@ChristheXelent Actually I'm sorry to say this but I don't think I was being patient, I just forgot to watch you, haha. So what was surprising is the moment I remember how much I love Gauge the Issue, is the day before a new one comes out. Also is it possible for us to get more popcorn thoughts, it's very entertaining, I'm sure it takes less effort for you so it's easy to make, it helps people keep up on recent events and there's not enough popcorn to go round.

[@Northerner_Transport_Hub]

We do need to keep guards on trains because of an incident that happened at a small station in Greater Manchester a few years ago. Romiley is a junction station on the Hope Valley Line between Manchester and Sheffield. Trains branch off to Rose Hill Marple from here, and there are also 2 separate lines to Manchester from here. A train pulls in, with the board saying "terminates here" and a red signal preventing the train from going any further. The train pulls in as usual, and I have to inform the guard AND the driver that the train was to terminate here. They check with control and say its correct and have to turn back using an ancient set of points which are never actually used. If it was just the driver, they'd probably be stuck there for a good few minutes, wondering what the problem was.

[@ChristheXelent]

You mean Reddish North isn't the only station in the area where the automated machines send people round in circles?

[@Northerner_Transport_Hub]

@@ChristheXelent actually, it was just a one time occurance. The train was empty as well, so no people running around like headless chickens.

[@philt4346]

Drama slot on R4 this afty was about a 999 call handler in a situation with a stroke sufferer calling from a train. When the handset was passed to the train driver the question was raised 'Is there a Guard on the train?' came the answer, 'Not any more.' thus closing down positive outcomes. Best thing I heard on the BBC in a decade.

[@thesudricmerman3318]

Glad to see seriers return

[@RailTractor127]

I can remember one occasion where a women with a pram and shopping tried to board a train with an OBS on board. As the latter was not trained to dispatch the train, they had to use their right leg to block the door from closing. I chipped in and helped, but it goes to show just show what may of happened if said OBS wasn't at the door they were trying to enter the train by.

[@KPen3750]

We've finally made it folks! The think clergyman is in a GTI! Though in all seriousness, this whole mess is really interesting to watch, because I remember on my trip to England in 2022 when the strikes were taking place that we had to plan around these services that were striking. Was it inconvenient, yes, but I rather enjoyed myself. Then again I'll always enjoy train travel no matter what headaches are thrown at me simply because I'm a railfan. I think there is a lot to be said about companies trying to expand their pockets at the cost of worker and public perception. Laid out beautifully as always Chris

[@damianstellabott3613]

Thank you, Chris!

[@TheHatMusic]

If you work people in safety critical roles to the point that they are exhausted, frustrated, and distracted, the net result is that incidents happen. There are guards for a reason, and like EVERY rule on the railways, that reason usually boils down to "We did this because without it, people died". Go back far enough and you'll find an example of that behind every single major rule. I know many railway workers, and I'm involved with the heritage sector. The work is hard, and the people doing it deserve a hell of a lot more respect than thet are given. When the public are angry about delays or cancellations, they take it out on the train and station staff. When fights kick off, it's the train and station staff who have to keep things in check until BTP arrive. Then when they have had enough and the unions strike, the media whip the public into an outrage and bare no responsibility for the misery they bring to people who do a hard job and just want to be treated with a bit of respect and paid a fair wage. We have it so badly wrong as a society. Transport workers, street sweepers, refuse collectors, cleaning staff - these are the people without whom modern sociaty would just fail. Frankly, they deserve better.

[@ricktownend9144]

Brilliant! - should be required watchin g for MPs ... Maybe there should be more talk about an alternative to strikes - after all, the passengers are only being inconvenienced in order to try and 'hurt' the decision-makers: ministers, company executives etc.. Is there a way that that could be done directly? - say the staff work without pay (as in a strike) but, by the non-strike agreement, the minister/executive etc. is compelled to do something they wouldn't like - perhaps work alongside a staff member for the pay/conditions they say are all that can be afforded (giving their regular pay to charity) - or maybe even being held captive or being tarred and feathered - whatever. I know this might not be practical, but perhaps talking about it would scare a few people in high places ... Keep up the good work!

[@lukeslocomotives]

I'm very happy to see these come back!

[@H-24-66]

Non operational staff as contingency drivers during a strike caused the Malbone Street Wreck.

[@kennethgoodchild6272]

Brilliant Chris, thank you.

[@RHTeebs]

When we needed him most, he returned.

[@dareks8000]

Well done Chris. I regard another poster calling your work here as "sensible" as something you should be truly proud of. Walk tall as ever.

[@joshslater2426]

Just the other day I was concerned you’d given up on this series forever, so thank god you’re back.

[@joshslater2426]

Also love your humour with the “demented parrot” intercom announcer and the reference to the old bus stop passengers from the old Simpsons intro.

[@Adelaide_Transit]

In Adelaide, South Australia we have DOO but only to an extent, we have roving passengers services attendants, along with security and police constables all patroling the trains and stations to make up for the absence of guards. It's also common practice that we have services run with two drivers in the cab so one can act as a guard. I've seen the reduction in guards, Security, PSAs and station staff first hand and it has been a negative. There have been many occasions where I have needed a staff member due to security concerns only for one to not be present. DOO isn't worth the risk.

[@ChristheXelent]

Thankyou for coming forward to share your experience

[@theenigmaticst7572]

A wonderfully insightful and detailed analysis of the issues here Chris - I salute you, and all the rail staff who are trying to keep home and hearth together. Also, I want to check whether you're aware of the typo (assuming it isn't for effect?) that the spelling of Guard is incorrect in your title and in the video itself. You could always say (as someone did on the Caldeonian Railway, Brechin) it's Doric and pronounced "Gerd"...

[@laurencefraser]

Makes an interesting contrast with a lot of newer metro lines that are just flat out fully automated with no staff on the train at all (and people praising this as a great improvement, and to be fair, it often Is because it's part of what allows them to be built at all and comes bundled with doing a lot of other things right), or in many cases, what amounts to a Guard but no Driver. Of course, those include all sorts of changes to design of stations, trains, and signalling systems to facilitate such. (advanced signaling systems, platform screen doors, trains that aren't seperated into distinct carriages nevermind inaccessable seperate units, and so on.) Tend to be a bit light on station staff too, mind you, which is perhaps not a so wise. It does seem like it would somewhat depend on having incentives set up to encourage the opperators to behave Correctly rather than to undermine what should be their core function for greater short term profit. On the other hand, no one seems to seriously consider the idea of fully automating intercity lines (well, maybe in a vague 'technology might eventually reach the point where it's viable' sense), that I recall ever encountering, and rightly so I suspect. Driver only operation really does seem like a poor idea. (the American Freight railways keep trying to pull that stunt too. On the rare occasion they've managed to get it past the unions it's been a disaster for Exactly the reasons raised by the people who would be losing their jobs in the process).

[@Jimboliah3985]

Honestly, I'd love to hear your opinion on the whole debacle with Thornbury Castle.

[@candycrushhater5828]

A repeat of his video on Union of South Africa’s retirement, eh? Ofc, I mean that in the sense of public outcry and *slightly* poor decision making by the owner.

[@hamshackleton]

Guard has the U before the A! 🙂 - - I prefer the American version, where each carriage (car - whatever) has it's own attendant. With a two-car unit, one person could cope. - - and why do people keep leaving out the space between at and least (and similar groupings)?

[@tbone121974]

I great to see you producing you tube videos again. I enjoyed your coverage of IMLEC. I'm curious what the drama over Hornby?

[@olly5764]

Very well written as usual Chris, and a very balanced video. Aside from not understanding that it's not about money, your average Joe Public doesn't seem able to grasp the wide range of issues caused by taking the guard off the train. I honestly feel that the government tried to use the railways, who have less sympathy from the public than workers such as nurses, and a plethora of TOCs for the government to hide behind, as the thin end of the wedge in terms of public sector pay rises and jobs, and if they railworkers had lost their dispute, the government would have used it as a lever against those others striking, as such, Mick Lynch was not only fighting for Railway staff, but also for Nurses, Teachers, Postal workers, Fire fighters and so on. Personally, I think the fact he looks like the hood actually does something to add to his presence in those media interviews. And finally #keeptheguardonthetrain

[@ralphgiles4754]

Hi Chris......followed your channel for many years. Really enjoy. It is of course the Guard who is in charge of the train. The question is could this be the prelude to removing the Drivers of passenger and certain other goods type trains.

[@highdownmartin]

I wonder who’s sold all our utilities and is now presiding over a shattered country that is falling behind our G7 counterparts at an increasingly rapid rate. Where all public sector workers are overstretched, underpaid and leaving in droves. Where all public sector provisions; health ,education , the judiciary, the penal system, the police , fire and ambulance services, the welfare system and public amenities, swimming pools, libraries, parks, museums are having budgets cut to the bone, then cut and cut again. The national life expectancy is now actually falling. I wonder who’s in charge of this mess?

[@ChristheXelent]

Feel free to share this with all your work colleagues past and present. Hopefully they might be able to relate to the testimonials that were provided. But more importantly, hopefully the disputes can be settled in your favour

[@cmdrflake]

Those of us on the “other” side of the pond are accustomed to having to fend for themselves when traveling. The service personnel levels here have minimal for more than 65-70 years.

[@ajaxengineco]

Let your 'gaurd' down on the spelling? ;) Yes, it's been rather a while since a GTI, I'm glad to see one. I hope you're well in yourself, too!

[@ChristheXelent]

Sorry about that. Yeah, spelling is on the list of things I'm not brilliant at. Hopefully next time

[@F40Sean]

Great video Chris - the only point you miss is that the majority of the train operators are foreign businesses being subsidised by the UK government which effectively means by the British taxpayer, who are making vast profits from the British public by way of inflated fares in order to satisfy shareholder expectations of dividends in various European countries. Crucially this is being done at the expense of the British rail worker, who is effectively financially worse off year by year while being pushed into ever increasingly more dangerous working practice.

[@ChristheXelent]

True that, but seeing as it's a complex topic in its own way, I think that's a subject for another time

[@modelrailfan37]

As a North American who is not a rail worker, this sounds like a terrible idea. Over here, we refer to our “guards” as “conductors”, but they have basically the same responsibilities. Over here, we have far more freight traffic than passenger, but on freight trains, our “conductors” have important responsibilities as well. These include communicating over radar to the yards, guiding trains in sidings, supervising the crew driving, helping with crew changes, and much more. On passenger services, duties are basically the same as everything you described in the video. As you have probably heard (and in fact Chris mentioned this in the video), there have been many issues with derailments over here lately, as drivers have had more responsibilities than usual due to crew shortages. If these crew shortages have been causing issues, then why on earth would railways in the U.K be looking to get rid of their guards/conductors? Surely this would only mean more accidents due to the amount of extra duties that the driver would be expected to do. At the end of the day though, these are just my opinions, and I would be more than happy to here others opinions as well.

[@rachelcarre9468]

I love GTI. Always interesting and informative!

[@TrainMan88]

I was surprised when you changed the theme a while ago but it’s so good!

[@soph_the_great_Aus]

If you want a prime example look at Sydney Australia, part of the network ripped up and turned into a crewless system that isn't isolated.

[@atrainspottersphotoguide1166]

This was a well spoken well informed video. Good on ya

[@faine_marquete6599]

Hey great to see another good video from you, also what the issue on your website it looks like slip volume 3 is out of stock. Hoping it comes back as I'm going to order all the volumes in one order 😊

[@ChristheXelent]

A re-stock is on its way. Hopefully in a week or so.

[@zaklex3165]

Economically speaking, you can NOT beat inflation with wage increases...that's a fact that most if not all economists will agree on. So people asking for wage increases above the rate of inflation would actually contribute to more inflation. Your situation in GB is different than the situation in the States here. Everyone also seems to ignore Australia, though there driverless or engineer only trains do run through the desolate Pilbara region and haul almost exclusively iron ore, they're still driverless or engineer(driver) only trains, so it is feasible.

[@AEKarnes]

I don't know how on earth or any other planet the London Underground gets away with running with no guard/conductor. You could not do that on the NYC system, in any shape or form. They've done it in Boston and it has been a dismal failure.

[@samuelfarris1949]

The British Government has a history of prioritising the financial takings of a situation over the practical side. This comes out of me realising how this played into all the cutbacks on the railway system that occurred in the 1960s with the so-called 'Beeching Axe' - even though most people don't realise Ernest Marples had more to do with implementing the cuts actually than Dr. Beeching did. I read somewhere that Beeching did suggest only temporary closure of routes that weren't making enough profit until overall finances had improved, suggesting he had taken on-board the practical side of his findings in his report, only for the Government to decide roads were, from the outset, more direct and economical for people outside of long-distance conveniences between major centres. Yet despite that they implemented huge motorways spanning the whole country anyway as if recognition in the eyes of America with their mass highway system - designed principally for urban areas anyway - came before common sense, which throws the situation more off-balance. Had an integrated transport system been truly implemented, we'd just have delivery services and public vehicles benefitting areas that railways couldn't directly reach - sort of where it stood in the 1950s when British Railways did implement their own motor-transport deliveries to isolated areas, which could arguably have been the benchmark for what we could have seen today. Regards, Samuel Farris.

[@andrewyoung749]

you realise most of the cuts were not enacted by ernst marples but by barbara castle and tom fraser right? beeching closed exactly zero railways. he never had the power to do so. he was asked to conduct an investigation and report his findings and make recommendations. he did this. power to close a line or withdraw a service lay entirely with the secretary of state. mow you are correct to say that the first of these that is relevant was marples who was a road builder. but its always (rather conveniently, i suspect) ignored that there was then a general election. during that election the labour party led by harold wilson made it clear that a labour victory would stop the line closures. labour won. barbara castle (labour) became sec state transport and thus had the power to order lines closed or kept open. she is responsible for the single biggest tranche of closures. following her tom fraser (still wilson/ labour government) took over. he is responsible for the second biggest tranche of closures. its become part of mythology that that dastardly dr beeching grrr closed the railways that were just bursting with passengers. people who are slightly brighter and realise that beeching never held the power move onto more solid marples ground. but suspiciously castle and fraser, the two biggest closer downers of the uk rail system never get mentioned despite doing their axing of the network after winning election on a pledge to specifically stop the closures. i wonder why that could be , i ask knowingly. lets look for the pattern; who closed most railways in route miles and stations? 1-Barbara Castle (Labour) 2-Tom Fraser (Labour) 3 Ernest Marples (Conservative) hmmm theres a pattern there and its a pattern thats slightly uncomfortable for labour voting nationalisation lovers who have spent 6 decades trying to blame 'those damn tories' and beeching in particular...

[@samuelfarris1949]

@@andrewyoung749 As a person who only knew the outward details, no, I did not have the slightest idea. Regards, Samuel.

[@lukemendel8197]

Quicklu! To the Keyboard!

[@andyash5675]

Guards on trains is like capitalisation in Banks. No one cares until there is a big gap where some important stuff *really* needs to be.......

[@dougalmcdougal8682]

Well balanced review ..

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

MMM John Coglan's Quo "Lockdown" wait wasn't there a strike one time because someone moved a highspeed EMU that had only one seat in the cab?

[@user-yf4gx9lw6c]

Love this series Chris. Are you ever goanna do a GTi on Beaching Report?

[@korosensei3932]

Didn't he already? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnu9pYaor99qb9k

[@jantokarski1623]

Babe, wake up, the new episode of GAUGE THE ISSUE is out!

[@TheGWR0-4-0]

Great to see this return, you’ve done a great job explaining the current situation

[@zangryomani1257]

K I have so many questions but my first one is what the heck happened with hornby and that other castle

[@oscarosullivan4513]

Agreed guards can make a journey better Dublin to Belfast and Dublin to Cork if they are using the locomotives, driving van trailer, coaches and heating/guards van. In the busy Dublin stations such as Pearse station and Connolly station have platform staff with whistles and all clear signal. Guards can help with trouble on trains, people who are in your seat and refusing to get up. The guards can also take dogs and cats, heavy luggage and bikes. One of the problems with the Dublin Area Rapid Transit is the inability of wheelchair users to get on the train they have to call three hours ahead so staff can be sent down to unlock the ramp which more often has been stolen or vandalised then there are the lifts always breaking and anti social behaviour towards staff. A number of DARTS are being crewed by two people I think every train in Ireland except maybe the DART when the current classes are retired should have a proper guards van. Can you cover the 21st Baron of Dunsany Randall Plunkett’s refusal to let the Dublin to Navan line which runs through part of his land reopen. The Guardian is also a good paper.

[@TheOnlyTYRE]

"Gaurd"

[@Eric_Hunt194]

Reject the Gaurd, follow the sandal! 😂

[@ChristheXelent]

Whoops! Sorry, my bad. Spelling was never my strong poynt, it seems

[@TheOnlyTYRE]

@@ChristheXelent Haha, all good man. Happens to the best of us.

[@jsma9999]

here here

[@KerbalRocketry]

the fun thing about the US derailments is they're just always doing that, they put trains on the ground daily! it's just come under closer scrutiny recently

[@jacoblyman9441]

While there has always been derailments (well, anywhere there are railways to be honest); a lot of it was slow speed stuff in yards that went unnoticed by the public. I think the main reason we are seeing so much scrutiny after Ohio, is the nature of the corporate world in American railroading right now. Precision Scheduled Railroading cut back a lot of jobs and laid off a lot of employees, including many who's job was simply to inspect cars for defects and be an extra pair of eyes on the train; while also making mainline freights longer with less locomotives to pull them. So its increased risk in the name of profit, and while its truly impossible to run a railroad with zero risk; it is not pleasant to see risk mitigation slashed in the name of the all-mighty-dollar. Look at the UP derailment on Cima Hill (where the pair of diesels on the lead ended up going so fast before derailing they allegedly broke Mallard's speed record). Old Union Pacific operating rules before dynamic brakes were common, required trains to stop at the summit and do an air brake test and set their retainers before traveling downgrade. In the late 20th century that rule was removed, and since then there have been three major derailments on the grade. Yet the rules and training haven't returned to the old standards, and UP is still adamant that the faster reliance on dynamic brakes (which saves the train money due to not having to idle and do an air brake test) is sufficient for the hill. The advent of Positive Train Control (PTC) systems has also created a false sense of security, where its imagined that the software will shut down a runaway train. But PTC and other software solutions can't fight the laws of physics, and while I am sure the PTC system was trying its hardest to stop the runaway on Cima... the reality is the train lost control of its airbrakes and there is nothing a line of computer code could do to change that. Its just a miracle in this latest incident the entire crew survived, but some of the prior accidents on the hill did claim lives, and yet UP still insists on the most profit-focused approach possible and not the slower but safer operating standard.

[@theenigmaticst7572]

"Listen buddy, in the States we don't care a dime for a few spills" "We do here" said Duke

[@True_NOON]

'Its cheaper to settle the strike rather than let it go on and on' almost like its a fucking detearrence from idk underpqying or overworking staff

[@nigelkthomas9501]

It’s mostly about pay. They’re just greedy! Driver only operation is fine and has been done for years in some areas like London and the south east.

[@ChristheXelent]

So when your train collides with another in the middle of Wales and your greedy driver is killed, then I wish you the very best of luck in getting safely off when there's no guard around to look after you and your fellow passengers

[@caledonianrailway1233]

#keeptheguardonthetrain

[@GrandCanyonStudios844]

Could you talk about Disney’s Iron Will the next time you talk about train movies? I know it may not be your cup of tea, because it’s an American Disney film, but in a few aspects, it doesn’t feel like one. For instance, it is not a musical for children.

[@TailsFan369no2]

#Learnaboutlacmeganticandtherailwordmontrealmaineandatlantic

[@jasonwhitman4109]

The CSX logo looks like somebody made it on macos

[@dj_efk]

With issues like this, I’d always look for actual evidence from other countries’ networks that have implemented the change in question, otherwise your opinion on what might be the result of implementing such change is just that.

[@ChristheXelent]

Japan East Railways are statistically the safest in the world and have a guard, driver and supervisor on every single train. Meanwhile, three incidents occured on un-gaurded class 710s over June 23rd, 27th and 29th 2022 with passengers and objects caught in the doors; which would have been avoided altogether had there been a guard onboard. And the case of Debroah Linsley, murdered on a non-corridor train where no guard could avert or notice her murder, remains unsolved.

[@chasemartin4450]

Automate all the trains and establish volunteer "guards" / transit police forces. It's the 21st century - efforts to expand mass transit should *not* be ruined by our inability to accept that *trains can be automated with today's technology*.

[@ChristheXelent]

I wish you good luck when HAL decides to takeover your train, then

[@chasemartin4450]

@@ChristheXelent Valid concern. Any use of AI to operate transit infrastructure needs to be *very* focused on ensuring such AI does not have the capacity to "take over" the system, such as being connected to the Internet and being remotely updated by a hacker or having so much processing power that it becomes "sentient". AI needs to be limited to specific tasks such as monitoring tracks for obstructions or answering passengers' questions about the schedule. Important functions such as signaling and speed limits must not have AI involvement, and the AI must not even have an electronic connection to them which allows for arbitrary data transfer. Keeping things simple and dumb is how you ensure your AI doesn't go rogue.

[@maxnash8450]

So what do you mean by f*** Barber. Just curious.

[@Decrepit_biker]

@18.04.... you might want to check your spelling Chris....

[@ChristheXelent]

As well as the thumbnail, intro and a few other places in the quotes, yes. Sorry about that

[@LolLol-xy4rh]

It seems to me that this show has become much more darker and much much more just sadness all around then anything else