Massachusetts ballot question 5 debate: Raising the minimum tipped wage

[@GBHNews]

Where do you stand on ballot question 5?

[@leonardomineo7641]

No on.5

[@jrho8033]

Yes on #5

[@GML_123.]

No

[@Chan12282]

@@GBHNews yes, benefits the customers and servers as customers are likely to still tip even after it’s raised.

[@sab3295]

as a former waitress I'm all for it. I spent many snowy nights in a restaurant making crap. It would be nice to go to work and be able to be like this is what I'm making as oppose to be like I might make this.

[@freedkristen]

I will vote no. I am a professional server who has worked in the industry for 35 + years in six states. I have chosen to do so because of the money. Yes there are days I don’t make a lot of tips, but this is balanced out by the days in which I do. I already never make less than minimum wage. If my employer didn’t follow that law, I wouldn’t work there and would report them. Rather than focus on what I make each night, I choose to focus instead on what I make each year, which is considerable (from a low of 55,000 in WV, which then and there was considerable, to a high of over six figures, to somewhere in between as I begin to cut back on hours as I age). Also, being on the front lines of the hospitality industry is especially challenging. From ensuring guests with allergies are protected, to handling guests who become enraged at what they mistakenly perceive to be some intentional slight, to having to work long hours without a break, let alone time to eat or use the restroom. Not to mention the fact that sick days and vacation days are paid at minimum wage, which means that taking them, especially in season, means taking a significant financial hit. Overall however, my concern with tip sharing is that what will happen is what has happened already to service charges, which at some point were reclassified as revenue, such that the employer can then distribute that tip to any employee the employer wishes, including the employer himself. I once worked at a wedding venue that did just that. One day, the employer’s yacht pulled up to the dock, dwarfing the wedding venue. I knew then, without a doubt, that it was time to go. This is what I fear will happen if question 5 is passed.

[@myxoplic]

He said burgers now are $15 and would go to $20...no, right now they are already over $20+

[@Sept2cfm1953]

Some business owners cut their employees' hours to part-time, so they don't have to give benefits. Thus seems abusive.

[@AC-hu5tg]

Honestly, this isn't a fair debate. Doug is such a bombastic blowhard it would be hard to stomach siding with him even if he was able to utter one or two salient points. Alex came with facts backed by research and was not afraid to call out Doug for being backed by lobbyists money. Thanks for making this decision easier.

[@confidentwreck]

I thought the same thing. He’s rude, interrupts, and wants to hear himself talk. It made me automatically side against him.

[@a_drop_in_the_ocean]

If eliminating the Tip-culture would end up rising the cost of restaurant meals by 20-25%, it would make no difference for the customer since a 20-25% tip, on top of the menu price, is expected here anyway. So, no shortage of customers hence no restaurant closures would be justified by such a change, this is a scarecrow strategy to keep the industry's employers profitable with minimum effort. Pretty sure that the U.S. is the only country in which the Tip-culture is prevalent and extreme; elsewhere, tips exist but are only offered for above-standard service and/or food quality. And yet, the general American restaurant experience has still to match the one offered by most comparable restaurants abroad, both in quality and affordability. Whose employees are paid a respectable wage, where restaurant owners compete for highest quality on offer and the customer gets the best possible experience. As it should be the case, always, in the service industry. The humble opinion of a gourmet globetrotter, that's all.

[@markcollins2666]

Being from MA, and having spent 16 years living outside the US, I would agree with the idea that the status quo needs to go. On the other hand, it makes me despair of the whole dining out experience altogether. The pro-quo guy wasn't kidding when he said that restos compete with everyone. And I would be more inclined to patronize my local grocery and liquor stores, rather than dine out, in future.

[@Chan12282]

I fully agree with you!!

[@MrScott1212ful]

The reasoning is that customers will still be asked to tip the 20% and then the total price will be higher. It depends on if the practice changes. You are right if tips were to be totally halted. There is a lot of nuance on how it will play out. If some servers now average $30 in tips an hour, will they be offered $36 an hour in wages? What about the rest of the workers. The law allows for spreading out of the tips to all workers. What will happen if servers lose more of the tips than the wage provides due to this expanded tip out? The fallout could very well be higher prices, unhappy servers, and unhappy customers leading to unhappy businesses.

[@Chan12282]

Why do they keep bringing up sharing tips. RESTAURANT OWNERS CAN BE REQUIRED TO PAY MINIMUM WAGE AND CUSTOMERS CAN TIP GOOD SERVERS AND TIP POOLING IS NOT REQUIRED. THERE IS NO PART OF THE LAW THAT SAYS TIP POOLING IS REQUIRED.

[@Krystalhail]

BECAUSE IT CAN BE MANIPULATED AND THEY CAN START THE BOH AT A LOWER WAGE TO END UP BREAKING EVEN ON LABOR COST. THUS EVERYONE THINKING THEYRE STICKING IT TO THE MAN ARE BEING BAMBOOZLED. critical thinking please. we DONT want to share our tips when we make $50/hr some nights. pooled tips will result in a pay cut and most of us will be filing underemployment with the state of this passes.

[@tooniami]

If the restaurant owner claims that workers are already guaranteed minimum wage and then later states that prices will go up, where did the increase in price come from? Could it possibly be that they are not being paid a fair wage?

[@Chan12282]

It’s because employees is guaranteed to make minimum wage. The question is who does it come from. With tipping culture, employers can pay their employees as low as $6.75 or so an hour while tips from customers pays the difference. A yes would require employers to pay minimum wage ($15) indefinitely so employers can’t rely on customer tips to pay their workers. That’s not to say that if workers are making minimum wage, that customers cannot tip, they still can, but it’ll be in addition to the minimum wage rather than helping them reach minimum wage.

[@mattcoorey2580]

Yes Tipping has allowed lower-quality restaurants to stay in business by masking the true cost of dining out. Whether people acknowledge it or not, when you go to a restaurant, you mainly focus on the price of each food item. Tipping has become almost a secondary expense, something most people mentally separate from the original cost of the meal. Now imagine if the tip were already included in the price of the food. For example, if a dish that used to be $18 is now listed as $25, you’d likely question whether it’s really worth that higher price. Even though, with the tip, the total cost would be the same as before, consumers only notice the listed price. Restaurants that are able to raise their prices successfully do so because consumers believe the quality of their food justifies the cost. But for businesses that can’t deliver on quality, they’ll eventually be forced to close-and I have no problem with that.

[@zeppelin0110]

Amen

[@Larathen]

"Prices of restaurant will go up 20-25% in prices." General tipping as is is recommenede at 20% minimum. 15% if you're lowballing. The difference will be minimal in terms of how much the customer has to spend eating out. The difference is now tipping won't be mandatory, as that extra cost will cover the minimum wage gaps. tl'dr different allocation of consumer income.

[@GurahkWeavile]

I wish I had known this beforehand. I feel like I got fleeced by the campaign ads that, in hindsight, appeared to be bankrolled by the lazier and cheap restaurants.

[@confidentwreck]

“Affordable restaurants will be wiped out” Spare us the dramatics, Doug.

[@DavidMarkun]

Very interesting discussion. I wish I had heard it before I voted. Are we on our way to a model in which tipping is not customary?

[@12KevinPower]

I wish that there was an option for "Neutral" on 5.

[@zeppelin0110]

That's called not voting

[@dd3123]

Chefs make crazy wages! $35+ an hour!! How is this fair for the servers who bust their butt and form relationships with their quests. They are accountable for a dish that comes out sub par. The frustrated quest takes it out on the servers. If this passes, the restaurants and hospitality workers will walk. They will not stand for making less on tipping to support their families! It will kill their income! Absolutely a NO VOTE! This bill smells bad.

[@Wonder-the]

No on question 5 please

[@tommyflynnmusic]

This is a BAD idea

[@mattcoorey2580]

Servers should absolutely support this change. Many have likely received 15-20% tips despite offering subpar service, simply due to the tipping culture we’re stuck in. The reality is, if you’re good at your job and work at a quality restaurant, you’ll likely earn well above minimum wage because restaurants will need to offer competitive pay to attract staff. Plus, tips would still exist, but customers would be more selective-rewarding only truly exceptional service. For skilled servers, this is a positive change. For those not performing well, it may mean leaving the industry-and frankly, that’s a necessary improvement.

[@Matt_Dagostino]

Wages are generally lower because they are guaranteed. However, when you have a split pay structure (base + commission or wage + tips) you tend to do better overall, albeit with some uncertainty and inconsistency.

[@tom-kz9pb]

A key point that I have not seen highlighted is that under current Massachusetts law, employers are ALREADY required to make up the difference if tips do not raise the employee's net pay at least to minimum wage level. I was prepared to vote "yes" at the thought that tipping might become an excuse to allow some employees in practice to earn less than minimum wage, but I changed my mind when I discovered that this was not the case.

[@mikezamora2145]

The fact that the law already states that employers are required to make up the difference in wages is literally the first argument made in this debate

[@tommyflynnmusic]

When someone says misinformation, be very cautious

[@Chan12282]

Bartenders and servers work just as hard as everyone else in respectable industries…tipping culture and no tip shaming allows them to make upwards of $30,$40,$50 an hour. It’s unnecessary.

[@tomgeraci9886]

they wouldn’t stop receiving tips if they got a minimum wage tho. In California, where tipped workers are paid 16/hour, many customers still tip

[@afnDavid]

My compensation is solely between myself and my employer! I dont want or need the goverment sticking thier nose in!

[@jeremywhite92]

Under current law, restaurant owners are required to make up the difference if tips don't lead to minimum wages. But the reality is that they don't - servers actually often make less than minimum wage per hour on a shift. And servers know that if they complain that they're not making minimum wage, they may well get fired. So this change would cause servers to actually get paid minimum wage -- which they currently often are not.

[@Chan12282]

I think the reason many servers are against this question is because it may lead to a fade away of tip culture, which allows them to often make upwards of $40-$50 an hour. A yes would require restaurant owners to pay their servers minimum wage and not pressure customers to tip, but if you’re server is great then you can still tip them. So I think a yes is a win for both customers and servers, but not so much owners.

[@skippyzk]

If you can't make money from tips, it is because your service sucks and you deserve to lose your job.

[@ChanceTheGardenerrr]

ppl are so conflict averse that they are unwilling to take a personal hand in paying for service rendered to them. They just want a number on a receipt and to swipe it or push it or whatever and go on their way instead of being involved in a sort of casual contract with their server. It makes them uncomfortable.

[@jrho8033]

Yes, it'll take adjustment, but a good restaurant owner will make this work. A Bad restaurant owner won't.

[@DJRayBoston]

I just asked my friend who has been a server for over a decade, he works for Cheesecake Factory, they are all voting NO! I've learned all about the industry from him, I completely understand how it works and why they don't want it. I'll be voting NO!

[@confidentwreck]

I have bad news: servers don’t understand the ramifications of this bill any more or less just because they are servers.

[@Gladiator376]

I’m voting NO!

[@tomgeraci9886]

The whole argument that people are advocating for the article from California is weird. California is one of the biggest success stories in the US of tipped workers being paid a full minimum wage (16-20 an hour) by the employer

[@skippyzk]

California has been closing restaurants and using automation. Not a success.

[@12KevinPower]

@@skippyzk so mixed bag. Other countries have no tipping necessary and seems to operate as usual.

[@skippyzk]

17:43 I get bad service everywhere except japan

[@bernadettepersall9284]

Server 100% nake minimum wage and more . Work way to hard and would not do it for a flat rate. On a double run 31,000 steps and 95 flights of stairs carrying heavy trays. Bust our ass and make great money in tips. Any server who agrees with question 5 works at wrong place or sucks at their job!!! A yes vote will destroy the lives of your favorite bartender's and serves you love. We will not be there anymore. This should not be a ballot question and was not put on by restaurant employees of Massachusetts!!! Activists from another state!!!!!

[@skippyzk]

TRUE

[@mattcoorey2580]

That’s fine if a restaurant can’t pay its workers enough to where they’re willing to stay who cares.

[@leonardomineo7641]

The.actice needs to.mind his own.business vote no.on.5

[@karimamin2]

Vote No. This ain't California

[@NMAMxRE]

Wow @10:52, business owner guy thinks that people the customer does not interact with don't deserve to be rewarded "if you hustle, and smile and discuss the food and the options and your tip gets shared" Just wow, what a dope, those are the people that make the food appear, make the dishes clean, etc.. Just hearing that is a Yes vote. Feels like these business owners don''t want the financial responsibility and want to keep it on the consumer. And intuitively do I trust restaurant owners to honestly level the playing field, not sure I do, it would seem a head start in the race, a higher minimum wage should be the starting line, personally this won't make me justify tipping less, as I have not tipped more since I have unconsciously been in a "co-op" business relationship with restaurants by being 'responsible' for getting employees to minimum wage?! Finally comparing the U.S to other countries, primarily Europe, is apples to oranges: Guaranteed health care, paid sick leave, paid time off, access to affordable child care, university education, pension systems...not the same social structure.

[@SalemHarbor]

Slavery? It didn't matter what you said after that. You lost all credibility with such foolishness. I'd have no problem at all going to a wage-based system, but should it go through, I'll never tip again. It's one or the other.

[@skippyzk]

My wife makes more getting tips + $15 an hour than i do making $24/hr. It's a better system for everyone. It's better for workers because they make more money. (If they provide good service) It's better for customers! Didn't get good service? Don't tip. Without tips there's no reason not to just sit and talk with a customer all day. Tips inventivize helping more customers per hour and giving them the best service you can. Tips are better for the employer. Bad workers will quit because they don't make money. The best workers succeed. Your customers are happier. The "cost" doesn't matter either way to the business. Paying $10 with a $2 tip is the same as paying $12 and workers paid $2 more. Wouldn't you as the customer want to retain the power to say "you suck I'm not leaving a tip" instead of having it built it to the price?

[@zeppelin0110]

The majority of people tip even when the service is bad. This is well documented.

[@mattcoorey2580]

It absolutely is not. Excluding the cost of service from menu prices creates a false impression of the true cost of dining. When only the food price is displayed, customers don’t see the full picture. If service costs were included upfront, people would better evaluate whether the meal is worth the price. If it is, they’ll pay willingly; if not, they’ll pass. Restaurants unable to justify their prices with quality would likely fail, ensuring that only those offering real value survive.

[@Gladiator376]

I’m with you Skippy if it passes, I’m not tipping! Yes, I’ve gotten bad service and still tipped 15% good service. I do 20 - 22%

[@StarlahMutiny]

Tipping in general should be abolished ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@Chan12282]

It just shouldn’t be required or frowned upon not to tip. Every other industry is required to pay their employees minimum wage, but restaurant owners are able to pay measly wages and rely on customer tips to pay their employees wages. It’s sick.

[@skippyzk]

Why

[@skippyzk]

​@Chan12282 When I was a tipped worker I made $1000 (take home) a week working 50 hours. It's less than I make now building medical devices

[@StarlahMutiny]

@@skippyzk because someone's wages should not be based on what people 'decide' to leave. Just pay people straight so their livelihood isn't based on people's moods or attitudes.

[@skippyzk]

@@StarlahMutiny Get a different job

[@EdTheFed77]

Every server I have asked in a restaurant has said vote NO. They fear they will make less money for a combination of reasons.

[@confidentwreck]

That doesn’t mean they’re right. “They found that tipped workers who made the same minimum wage as other employees had slightly higher overall earnings - roughly 10% to 20% - than their colleagues who worked in states with subminimum wages, even when accounting for larger differences in average wages across states.”

[@miked3723]

As soon as he said its a legacy of slavery i knew to vote against him. If that is your leading argument then you obviously dont have much.

[@Chan12282]

Yeah that was weird but his opinion is correct. Restaurants shouldn’t be allowed to pay measly wages and rely on customers to pay their servers wages.

[@skippyzk]

​@@Chan12282 Customers already pay the wages. All the money the business has comes from the customers

[@Chan12282]

@@skippyzk yeah true. And we shouldn’t be made to pay extra on top of our bill to compensate their employees. Most other countries don’t do this.

[@dd3123]

Chefs make crazy wages! $35+ an hour!! How is this fair for the servers who bust their butt and form relationships with their quests. They are accountable for a dish that comes out sub par. The frustrated quest takes it out on the servers. If this passes, the restaurants and hospitality workers will walk. They will not stand for making less on tipping to support their families! It will kill their income! Absolutely a NO VOTE! This bill smells bad.