Examining the Church of Christ: Part Two | Answering The Error

[@DRMLiveJazz]

Well done again, gentlemen. You are both wise and even-tempered. Thank you for your scriptural and plainly-stated approach, Don, Aaron, and GBN!

[@dB_944]

Kudos to Don and Aaron for having the patience to go though this. 😊

[@jenellewilkes]

The guys on Cultish were very hard to listen to, but Don and Aaron did a good job defending the truth.

[@michaelsage4599]

Trey is very arrogant as were the other guys. They only want to obey part of the holy scriptures while ignoring the obedience that truly comes from a childlike faith. Dollars to donuts, there is something unholy there. I would love to check their browser history.

[@lisacaroline76]

Amen

[@kac0404]

Agreed 👍

[@bridgettsass917]

Don and Aaron are a wonderful example to us on how to endure truth-and falsity-graciously.

[@sareenamorrow4150]

Great discussion, looking forward to the other episodes! Keep up the great work GBN! ❤

[@jamesfitch4569]

Gwendolyn Thomas joining in!❤ Thanks again guys for standing on the truth and exposing this error!

[@MrCaza7096]

@28:55 Aaron Gallagher mentions that he would love for Trey Fisher to produce sources for his references...he doesn't have any. Many believe (as I do) that Trey is making it up as he goes. He would never hold up in a formal debate.

[@michaelsage4599]

That guy Trey is clearly a charlatan in which I’m sensing something is deeply wrong with him. 😊

[@inTruthbyGrace]

@@michaelsage4599 yes. It is 2Cor 4:1-7... however the fact that Trey is willing to sit down with Aaron and discuss this stuff is the ledge from which Aaron can throw (and is very strategically throwing) Trey a life line of solid exegesis to extract Trey form the snare, IF Trey will grab on and receive the love the truth. I pray against the seduction of Calvinism and that comradery of the fight club they enjoy, it is a powerful snare of ignorance and pride. Aaron is doing a great job of ministering to Trey though, we should pray for them both! :)

[@UpwardBoundtoHeaven]

Thanks for your clear Biblical teaching.

[@rileyransom7436]

I'm trying to be kind...but it truly is hard to listen to Trey. I pray that his heart is softened and he comes back to truth 🙏🏽 Aaron and Don as always outstanding job addressing this religious error

[@inTruthbyGrace]

"come back"? Do you really think Trey echoes having *_ever_* been a part of the true teachings of *_any_* Church of Christ? I am learning about both Trey and Church of Christ at the same time going through this series, listening to the debate between Trey and Aaron, and researching the church (never heard of either of them before 3 days ago) and it seems Trey is so absurdly far away from what Church of Christ is documented as teaching, he seems to be making it up as he is going along. I get the sense that Trey is very happy to be in the center of the spotlight, he seems overly impressed with how many subscribers someone has and he is drawing out his moment in the limelight within the echo chamber of hipster Calvinists who don't have any idea what they are talking about. Calvinists usually know proof texts but they do not know the corpus of the Bible, they love big words like Pelagian and the fantasy that they were chosen by God alongside Christ *_before_* the beginning of the world, but they are generally stuck in ignorance about Scripture by the glue of pride... in this case to false accusation and absurdity. I get the clear impression that Trey has no idea what he is talking about, he reflects a poor understanding of theology in all directions, I seriously doubt he *_ever knew_* arrived at or received TRUTH to come back to.

[@rileyransom7436]

@@inTruthbyGrace I agree. So what are your thoughts about the church of christ ?

[@inTruthbyGrace]

@@rileyransom7436 so far very good! I like the way these men handle the Scripture. I was a Roman Catholic *_until_* I read the Bible by myself..and I got so freaked out about being lied to by the biggest institution of religious men on earth that I totally withdrew from all religion and dove into a 10y, day and night study of the Bible alone (no commentaries or guides) until I had learned & vetted the Bible with everything I had in me (veracity, historicity, transmission, text traditions, variants and I even learned Koine Greek to be able to translate it myself) and rebuilt every tenet of my faith... Nothing was off the table: from the deity of Christ to the virgin birth to how we handle the Law, the "Lord's supper", eschatology, sin, soteriology, baptism, marriage, "confession".. you name it, I have examined and continue to always examine it... BC all my conclusions about the mercy and love of God and His promises being for ALL men, are 100% NOT Augustinian/ Calvinistic, views, I like what CoC has to say. Calvin/ Augustinian error paints such an evil picture of a god that doesn't really mean what he says because he already determined who would not be saved and there is nothing anyone can do to change that "decree" that I am convinced they are almost antichrist doctrines.. HOWEVER, it seems most of Christianity is smitten with these Augustinian concepts of determinism and "original sin"/ imputed sin-guilt. These are not in the Bible but so widely held by every one I encounter that it is a welcomed breath of fresh air to hear these CoC guys get it! and know how to refute it From what I am hearing this group seems pretty right on about all the major stuff. I'll have to continue investigating (I am always suspicious there is a false doctrine somewhere, but so far, I am not finding one) I am exploring their views on eschatology (which are things we can disagree on).. I would like to learn about their views on the warnings about those who will worship the image of the beast bc they're very specific and I think they point to something that is near, on the horizon, so I am not a preterist, but I am closer to an amillennialist than not.. (definitely not a dispensational pre-triber like everyone at the baptist church I serve at... but I don't share my thoughts on these things with those folks. They're just nice , older brothers and sisters who love the Lord.) I like these guys. I feel a kinship with their passion for the truth and I feel like they have found exactly the same stuff I see in Scripture myself and *_that_* is fun to hear!

[@lesliesavage9229]

@@inTruthbyGrace In the Church of Christ you will find people who date Revelation with two different dates, and either apply Revelation to the fall of Jerusalem or the end of the physical world or even both. What is important is how we are to please God, and His plan as to how we are to be with Him some day, and less about the details of the plan. Don't get me wrong, because the details, when we get them right, give us a better understanding of Who God is. The best thing about the Bible is that our part in salvation is plain and easy to understand.

[@kazmynjohannes5163]

Thank you for this!!! It’s put my mind at ease knowing y’all gave a comprehensive answer to this crazy episode.

[@youtube6817]

Phenomenal. Eager for pt 3😊

[@corinneharris7008]

Love that you all left the comments on. It’s encouraging to see the other Christians in the comments.

[@TCS088]

A third episode? Great! Very informative

[@ravisekhars4217]

Good message about Church of Christ. Thanks brother 🙏

[@dB_944]

If children are sinners, then why would Jesus say: Mark 10:14 (KJV) 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

[@solochristo491]

Also Matthew chapter 18.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

The message Christ was conveying is that no one should lead kids into sin or keep them away from obeying God. He wasn't saying that children can't sin. In Eze. 9, you can see God telling angels to kill wicked children without pity, even if they were in the sanctuary(Eze. 9:5-6).

[@dB_944]

@@theeternalsbeliever1779 the point is this passage is that to enter the kingdom of God you need to have a pure heart as these little chirldren (v15). I think Jesus did not believe they were vipers in diapers.

[@ryanjones2297]

David's line about being conceived in iniquity could be a reference to Genesis 38, with Judah and Tamar. David was the 11th generation from that and was the first in a long time of his family that could enter the temple. Which is why he wrote that he was so happy to "Enter the house of the Lord"

[@thundershadow]

That was the perfect example of projection. We do not teach it is someone else's fault that we sinned. It's the birth of a straw man argument like when they claim that we deny the cleansing power of Christs blood by promoting water baptism. We never say that. We never think it.

[@michellewilson2995]

The devil made me do it, right

[@thundershadow]

@@michellewilson2995 No body would like my response to that. There is a reason the bible calls the devil the god of this world. This simple contrast of this spiritual war is you are either on God's side or the side of satan. We do not have a side of our own. We are given options... we do not have free will. It was satan who planted the seed in us that we can be as God knowing good and evil. And we do form our own idea of right and wrong but that did not bring us closer to knowing God who actually decides what is right and wrong.

[@williamtolbert5011]

Brothers I am really enjoying this break down of the beliefs of the Church of Christ. I used to be a Calvinist, but gave it up because there is not one Protestant today if John Calvin was alive today that could believe what he originally taught. He would have them burned at the stake for Heresy. God the Father from the foundation of the World has CHOOSEN AND ELECTED PEOPLE TO RECEIVE SALVATION TRUE. But he did not create man as total depraved where he can't receive Salvation. That is what this Day of Grace is all about. I have come to believe that people including the Christian does not read the Bible and understand the text for what it says and reads either to much into it or reads to much out of it. they do not take the Word of God at FACE VALUE. THEY EITHER SPIRITUALIZE IT OR BRING THEIR PET PHILOSOPHICAL THEOLOGY TO THE SPIRITUAL TABLE AND DEBATE THE ISSUES SURROUNDING IT. NOT THAT ALL OF THAT IS WRONG BUT IT PUTS THE REAL TRUTH AT A DISADVANTAGE IN MY OPINION. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IN WHAT THEY BELIEVE. THEY BELIEVE THE BULK OF THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST THAT WILL PUT A PERSON IN HEAVEN, INCLUDING WATER BAPTISM. JOHN THE BAPTIST DID IT AND JESUS RECOMMENDED IT. SOME Churches don't believe in Baptism, Salvation Army is one. There are others. I myself have been Baptize to many times. I am Saved in the Blessed Hope of Christ Jesus. I am interested in the Church of Christ in what they believe.

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

Good, just as no one is saved by a false gospel, Galatians 1:6-7 *who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel which is not another* Likewise when one is taught the true gospel and believes and obeys it. Their sins are washed away by the blood of Christ. But also God adds the saved to His Church, Acts 2:47 *Praising God and having favor with all the people and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved* Thus the saved are in the Lords church and cannot be in another. For there is only one church that Jesus Christ built, Matthew 16:18-19 *And I say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build My(Jesus) church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it* So the Lords church is what all the saved are added to. This one church is also the body of Christ, *and Jesus is the head of the body the church* We are baptized into the Lord and into His church, 1Corinthians 12:13 *for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body(church) whether Jews or greeks* Therefore if you were not taught about the Lords church when you obeyed the gospel you were taught a false gospel. Notice Philip preached the church which is the kingdom of God BEFORE he baptized the believers into Christ. Acts 8:12 *But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the KINGDOM of God and the name of Jesus Christ both men and women were baptized* Conclusion: One cannot be taught wrong and baptized right. So knowing about the Kingdom/church is in the gospel. Once one has been taught God adds you to His church and not another man made church. Then that person is saved by God. God does not save those who are baptized into sects/denominations like the catholic church.

[@inTruthbyGrace]

"God the Father from the foundation of the World has CHOOSEN AND ELECTED PEOPLE TO RECEIVE SALVATION TRUE"

[@bellcoolmountain6650]

@@inTruthbyGrace Excellent, sound Bible teaching. When I said to him Good. I meant he is seeking truth by leaving the protestant reformed theology ideology.

[@murfyhousemouse7075]

The Church of Christ is the Church of Christ!

[@Andrea-in9hs]

Thanking God for answering the error.

[@helgeevensen856]

"viper in a diaper" 🤣 that was a good one... never heard that before...

[@Jonathan_Guice]

That is a quote from Voddie Baucham, a well known Calvinist

[@inTruthbyGrace]

@@Jonathan_Guice ....well known to _Calvinists_ and people who spend some time interacting with their material.

[@kellytisdale7322]

Can we bring up that if everyone is born sinners due to flesh then Jesus would also have to have been born a sinner?

[@bridgettsass917]

No, because Jesus was born of Holy Spirit conception, not biological.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@bridgettsass917 that doesn't null the fact that He was born of flesh. He wasn't part man and 100% God. He was 100% man and 100% God. Nothing says that one has to be born of a male to be born a sinner.

[@bridgettsass917]

@@kellytisdale7322 except that Jesus knew no sin (2 Cor. 5:21) and became sin for us. If Jesus wasn't perfect then He wasn't God.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@bridgettsass917 of course Jesus knew no sin. No one says He did. But we are not born sinners. The Bible does not teach that. What it teaches is that we commit sin and are guilty of the sin we commit. Nowhere does it say we are guilty of the sin Adam and Eve committed. Read Ezekiel 13.

[@bridgettsass917]

@@kellytisdale7322 yeah, we're on the same page. Also Ezi. 18:20. However, I still disagree with the logic that if it were true that man were born sinners that that would have made Jesus a sinner too. Jesus was not conceived by 2 sinners.

[@thundershadow]

We are born with one intent of God that we pursue knowledge of him.

[@elliswilliams2744]

you noticed Church of Christ preachers are using the Bible and not their opinions

[@jackdabbs1633]

The answer about the difference in righteousness and innocence is critical in the end there. I think people hear righteous when the word prefect is used. There needs to be care when discussing these fine differences.

[@allismama]

Roman 3 23-24 everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

[@lucduchien]

Another problem with the NIV is the translation of the "paradosis". When the NIV translators believed the word was being used in a negative sense, they used the word "tradition", but when they thought the word was being used positively, they used the word "teaching". So a person is unwittingly being given the idea that all "tradition" is bad, but all "teaching" is good. It is the same word, there is the paradosis of man and the paradosis of God, both of which are passed on from teacher to student, whether you translate it "tradition" or "teaching".

[@roysjudy]

Trey runs a very lucrative straw man factory.

[@thundershadow]

Churches of Christ... Not a cult.

[@findinggodswisdom]

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. We must choose God. God has already chosen all of us, He is just waiting for us to choose Him.

[@numbers22_28]

The word 'sect' describes all the (many) denominations that are teaching a false gospel. 'Cult' is a word that does not fit any group the "Cultish" people are trying to describe. A cult has always been a group with one or two powerful leaders that dominate their people and often control with misinformation and intimidation. The Lord's church, the church of Christ is open and encourages every member to take responsibility for his own actions and salvation by living for Christ. I would not call the Calvinists a cult, but they are an unscriptural sect.

[@MrCaza7096]

A cult by definition is: a group of people who are controlled by a single-minded group or individual on rules or regulations that are impossible or implausable to follow with little or no historical narrative.

[@frankschipani7682]

The 2011 NIV cleans up Sarx. The 1984 used sinful nature but most (I think) uses in the 2011 are flesh. I think it only uses the term twice in the 2011.

[@themoreyouknow006]

Great job

[@inTruthbyGrace]

I never heard of Church of Christ until 3 days ago listening to this & Aaron/ Trey's debate but @40:06 Trey sums it up perfectly: *_HE DOES NOT KNOW THE BIBLE_* "we have to be creatures of the word, we have to be abide in His Word if we truly want to be His disciple, that is what Jesus said in John 8 so we need to know this book and not just *_BITS AND PIECES_* of it but what is this whole thing telling me, and so we have to have the context, and I think a lot of people not just the Church of Christ but a lot of people they know this verse and that verse but they don't know the whole book right? and look I'll be the first to tell you *_I DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE BIBLE_* I don;t know every story and every person, no, but when it comes to soteriology, salvation, grace, I'm willing to sit down with anybody who agrees disagrees, whatever".. It is astounding to me how many quotes like this we can harvest from Calvinists who love to parade their piety in a contrived and feigned depravity, hoisted on the vain fantasy that God chose them, _alongside Christ_ before the beginning of the world, as they openly confess their reliance on soteriological proof texts and unfamiliarity with the Scriptures. Furthermore, they are guilty of the very things they accuse others. It is uncanny how frequently they will criticize others for doing the very thing they are doing, ie the reference to the suggestion that those who don't believe in original sin are blaming others for their sinning.... when he said that I was like "what are you talking about? Do you not comprehend that when you say a newborn who has never acted, thought or exercised any intention is GUILTY of sin because of what *_ADAM_* did, you are literally blaming ADAM for the guilt of the child??????"

[@sandyshaw1791]

Paul died to himself & started living according to the law when he learned of it, babies are born with inherited sin, so it is born sinful. ❤

[@jamesmott2288]

I’d hate to know I hung my salvation on something John Calvin taught and not GODS word. That’s just crazy.

[@jamesmott2288]

You have to have a lot of help to miss Paul’s teaching that when he was a child he was alive but when the law came he died. So simple. So so simple.

[@frankschipani7682]

So according to the video, if one does not believe the false doctrine of Calvinism they are a cult teaching heresy? That's pretty extreme.

[@Hyorikatsu]

Woah I was taken back by that comment about the unborn. So by their theology all those babies are bound for hell. What a ghastly thought.

[@mikelyons2831]

Trey & A.S. are Calvinists (another gospel) & CoC's typically claim "Salvation follows Baptism". I don't ascribe to either.

[@thedynamicsolo4232]

I don't know which church of Christ you went to that says salvation follows baptism. We believe that you are saved by grace, you then, in obedience do as the Lord commanded after you hear, believe, repent, confess and then are baptized as an act of obedience. I mean, Paul arguably the best mind about the former law says "don't you know that you who were baptized into Christ...." and was baptized to "wash away your sins" as told to him by Annanias after he regained his sight thought it was part of the salvation process.

[@mikelyons2831]

@@thedynamicsolo4232 Very kind reply. I'm glad that's your churches position. Sadly my experiences with every CoC has been from a Baptismal-Regeneration perspective. & Some have even stated "You MUST repent of your sins" as part of salvation...as in when/right then/immediately repent of all sin???

[@nancywhitehead219]

They didn't even read it all. Only verse 9.

[@TwinPinesFarms]

Sinning is knowing God and turning your back on his word. Much like Trey is doing. Do not lean on your understanding. Lean on God's word. You are grown men. It's time to put away the milk. The meat is where your soul will finally connect with the holy spirit. Who seems to be lost in this conversation.

[@barnsweb52]

Cults can easily be identified: Ask reasonable questions and expect open dialogue. If they cannot do this - they are a cult - and Church of Christ is second only to the Mormons - I know - my grandfather, father, and two brothers are preachers - I even went to David Lipscomb as a Bible Major - they are willfully ignorant of Jesus to follow Paul.

[@mariajaramillo1135]

I really thought I was ignorant about the bible, but listening to these 3 clowns 🤡 I feel very intelligent. 🤦‍♀️ forgive me, Lord. I don't know how to put this together.

[@elliswilliams2744]

What!!!!

[@SamTipton]

2 Timothy 2:15

[@RileySullivan-o6p]

If babies are born righteous and sinless already to begin with, Why did Jesus need to be born from a virgin and God? Maybe we can answer that for divinity reasons, okay. So then if babies are born sinless, or perfect to they equate to Jesus? I thought Jesus was the only perfect born person.

[@michellewilson2995]

I really feel sorry for Trey. He is angry for whatever and is just lashing out at the church. He needs to repent before it's too late.

[@harolddavis1493]

Well I have we had difficulty in the coc as well prove to me that the coc is the only church that a person can be saved at I believe Christ can save a person anywhere they are at I gave my heart back to Christ Christmas before last in my home later went to a coc and got be rebaptized cause I had been baptized in a Baptist Church I'm hoping GOD will lead me to a different non denominational church so all this spiritual mentality suffering will end

[@solochristo491]

I would agree that Scripture nowhere teaches we inherit a sin nature from Adam or his guilt, nor the doctrine of total depravity. But one of the best understandings that human nature is not inherently sinful from Adam is the human nature taken on by Jesus Christ during the Incarnation. "The Word became flesh", John 1:14. Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man, like us in every respect, although he lived a perfect, sinless life - Hebrews 2:14-18, Hebrews 4:15. In fact, even Protestants admit Jesus had a fully human nature, for example R.C. Sproul. Now, of course Jesus was also God and had a fully divine nature as well. Of course this is somewhat of a mystery, but nonetheless has attempted to be explained over the millenia. Protestants hold to what's called Dyophysitism, which states Jesus is one person with two natures, one fully divine, one fully human, which did not mix. This is called the hypostatic union. The crux of the problem is that when you hold to the doctrine of Original Sin and total depravity, you have to explain away Jesus's fully human nature. The Catholics have attempted to do this with what they call the Immaculate Conception, that Mary was born without Original Sin and a sin nature. Eastern Orthodox denies Original Sin, so it's therefore perfectly acceptable that Jesus had a fully human nature. For Reformed theology though which holds to the doctrine of Original Sin and affirm Jesus had a fully human nature, let's just say they generally don't like to discuss the implications, and any faithful Christian can easily see why.

[@bryannorris8049]

Apart from the blatant sinfulness of such an act, what a selfish and evil thought to wipe out a generation and leave everyone remaining after them rudderless without anyone trained in the scripture to help sinners find Spirit and Truth in the Word. Every soul has the ability to help save many souls through their life. So no, the saving of one soul by murdering them while they are innocent is not consistent with the scripture at any level.

[@FalconOfStorms]

"We would say an unfaithful member" Yeah, that's not a culty thing to say at all.

[@Andrea-in9hs]

God help.

[@dermotgillespie9030]

It's a business, if Jesus was around he would be disappointed with what is done in his name. 😅

[@TwinPinesFarms]

Oh wow these guys are so far off base, the pitcher could walk to the bag for a force out.

[@Andrea-in9hs]

No

[@speakeasyarchives8764]

Yes, anybody that says. We have the only way to christ, we are the only ones telling the truth. That smells of a cult. When you have so-called Christians that ties your salvation into using instruments to worship. That smells of a cult. When someone says you have to go the COC for salvation. That smells of a cult. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's a duck.

[@kac0404]

All of the passages that deal with music in the worship of the church use the words “singing”, “sing”, or “fruit of our lips”, except for Ephesians 5:19 which reads, “making melody”. This is a translation of the Greek word psallo. It was synonymous with the word “sing” and is translated so in all of the other passages where it is used. If there be any argument about this word, Paul tells us what instrument to psallo with: “the heart”. Since Paul is giving a command, if he had reference to playing a mechanical instrument of music we would all be obligated to do so. It would not be optional, but mandatory for every Christian. The early church did not understand it this way, as they never worshiped God with a mechanical instrument. Therefore, instrumental music in worship is an addition to the word of God. From passages such as Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 we learn that God would not have us to add to His word. As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 4:6, “Learn not to go beyond the things which are written” (ASV). In 1 Timothy 1:3, Paul admonishes, “teach no other doctrine”. Remember, “Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God”

[@kac0404]

Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you. Romans 16:16 KJV SHOW ME ANOTHER CHURCH IN THE BIBLE, OTHER THAN THE ONE WE READ ABOUT.

[@TwinPinesFarms]

I am shocked. That is evil.

[@walterlahaye2128]

GBN is really beginning to waver!

[@soundpreacher]

How so?

[@lorainabogado]

you are not saved

[@TwinPinesFarms]

The guy in the hat needs to stop talking 😅