Big Bike Brands Are All Changing, Here's Why! | GCN Tech Show 326

[@gcntech]

What do you think about the range of bikes available these days? Confusing or something for everyone? 😵‍💫

[@oplkfdhgk]

Both. I think the websites should ask customer for what they want and give couple them couple options. That way we could still have alot of bikes and it wouldn't be as confusing.

[@GoRideFL]

If folks have money for custom paint, they probably have money for a modern disc brake equipped model.

[@feedbackzaloop]

If you look at automotive or tools (say hi to Si👋) you would find bike brands don't have that much of models. But there are definetely too few big brands and proper conglomerates besides PON and too many independent or seemingly independent manufacturers with shareholders in something way outside cycling or sport in general. Also, models are updated too often by too small of a margin.

[@OperationDarkside]

Confusing. I'm trying to get into cycling again after a long time and anytime I visit a manufacturers website/shop I don't know what's what. Maybe I'm too much of a simpleton, but feels as complicated as ordering at starbucks.

[@wilsistermans1118]

Lesser models will reduce the costs and hopefully that shows off in the prices. If they also sell bare frames, people still can build a bike with the groupset and wheels they prefer.

[@buggen819]

Bike brands should lower the price for good entry level bikes and lower the price for mid tier bikes. Whenever i try to introduce biking for someone they all say the same, i would love to start but its to expensive. If the entry level to good bikes are lower more will start biking and then start buying the more expensive bikes. 15k for a bike is just ridiculous

[@gcntech]

It can be an expensive sport to get into. Have you ever recommended secondhand bikes to your buddies? A video like this might help 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWfNdYqXp9qtkJI

[@man314sea9]

if people should consider secondhand as a entry level, its not a healthy model

[@buggen819]

@@gcntech yea, a second hand bike in Sweden is around 1k. My friends and I are in our thirties. I've been riding for years but for someone who just bought a house or is expecting a child it's still expensive if you just want to try it out and people would rather start with a new bike than an old one.

[@gikke007]

Decathlon is taking action 🎉

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@@buggen819 I got in the industry in 2005. Entry level road bikes from all the big manufacturers were $700-800. They all have a $999.999 bike now, and they're significantly better than those $700 bikes. That's not much inflation in nearly 20yrs. They also barely made any money on those bikes 20yrs ago and make even less now

[@WarHammerWH]

Thank you Ollie for your proper technical and scientific evaluation of the undyed bib shorts at 14:30. You had the courage to utter what everyone was thinking.

[@noptimized]

If I had to wear white bib shorts, I would literally dye. (I actually appreciate that they are exploring more sustainable options)

[@johngwheeler]

😅

[@gcntech]

What is you won the world champs? 👀

[@saddleweary2777]

Loved that one 👍👍

[@EpeP-qs9xb]

What colour?

[@rowdml]

Watching these two turn into Beavis and Butthead at the mention of "fishnet". He he he. 😆

[@gcntech]

Children! 🤣

[@andreemurray7039]

Pricing is the main sticking point and marketing drives me mad claiming that don't stack up

[@Vorobiov_Evgeny]

especially when you that bikes 3x cost perform like cheaper ones, so its just elitist priced things. Even midrange things like bike with 105 groupset look like high-end thingy, the thing you should make effort to afford. Well. Have your warehouse full of bikes than

[@a1white]

This is partly why Shimano bought out the CUES system one Derailleur and chain that can work across 8,9 and 10 speed, just swap the shifter and cassette. Simplifies the stock they need to hold and supply and ultimately benefits the consumer

[@gcntech]

Sounds like a great system 👌 Would you run CUES on your bike?

[@a1white]

@@gcntechisn't the idea that they will bring out a drop-bar version to eventually replace Claris, Sora and Tiagra? I think it makes to simplify things and means the customer can easily swap components - e.g moving from 8 to 10 speed doesn't need a new deraileur. From what I've heard Linkglide greatly increases component life too.

[@EpeP-qs9xb]

Aka a mixed groupset. Nothing new.

[@a1white]

@@EpeP-qs9xb no, it is different. They are making just one chain and derailleur that works across 9, 10 and 11 speed in the CUES system.

[@WeiZhiChang-j6q]

Picking up from the comment by Anthony shared in this episode that "we once all road lower tier bikes", perhaps it can be a GCN video idea surrounding GCN presenters and their first road bikes. Would love to hear/see the bikes that each presenter started with and memorable stories from it!😊

[@joekaiser2258]

My desire for any new bike is severely diminished by the industry abandonment of high end rim brake options, ...and all the other 'improvements' that make maintenance difficult.

[@gcntech]

Interesting, how about going for a high end second hand bike? 🚲 Some great rim brake bargains out there

[@mpvsystems9302]

Time still makes rim brake frames too. I think the brands that "know" that putting disc brakes on a road bike was just a marketing stunt to sell gullable customers a new bike, but a step backwards from an engineering perspective, are still offering rim brakes because they know that savvy performance focused customers will continue to buy them

[@petersouthernboy6327]

If you want a great rim brake bike - you’re relegated to the second hand market.

[@beeldpuntXVI]

There are more rim brake enthousiast than industry will admit

[@petersouthernboy6327]

@@beeldpuntXVI if that were true - there would be more brands offering them because the competition amongst OEM’s is fierce.

[@simonmurray2417]

A 'good' aero bike is lightweight, and somewhat comfortable - but not for 6 hours+. What needs to happen is mass customisation. Like options of bar width, stem length, crank length, tyre width, seat, casette......just as you said 🙂

[@gcntech]

That would be great wouldn't it, would that mean that shops have to offer free bike fitting as part of the purchase? 👀

[@SoulDuJour]

@@gcntechwhat would be excellent is if shops could maybe charge for a bike fitting and then attribute some of that as a deposit on a new bike

[@belowthehill]

I agree! I just had a bike fit and then bought a new Roubaix for $3500 and then had to promptly replace the stem, handlebars, saddle, and cranks (including the bottom bracket, spindle and spider… needed for my super-short cranks) to make it fit. Perhaps I should have just ordered the frame! 😅

[@colnagog6026]

@@gcntechA basic "fit cycle" shouldn't be too difficult, nor time consuming, to setup for a potential customer, in order to get a better idea of frame size and stem length/height. If a full blown RETUL fit is $300 (where I aggravated a knee injury on the first ride following), a bike shop could eat the cost of the time spent on a basic setup, if they're selling a $4k - $15k bike, vs. "just asking how tall the buyer is, and using the manufacturers' chart recommendations".

[@Jac77794]

I don't buy a new bike just bought a new groupset recently as crank length, stem length and bar width need to be customisable to make a new bike worth it

[@SonnyDarvish]

Component sizing all the way! It's been many cases I stopped a purchase because something was either proprietary (d-shape seat post on endurance ebike like rose backroad) or I would have been forced to spend another 500 euros to get the whole cockpit replaced, assuming the brand actually provides the sizes I need. Every single bike I bought, I had to replace these immediately: saddle, seat post, stem, handelbar and crankset. Even at 105 level the total cost is around 400-600 euros. For example here 10:20 it is not cool when they make the effort to provide 3 crank arm length options and all of them are super close to each other. It makes more sense if they provide 160 to 175 in 5 mm increments instead.

[@jazzcatjohn]

One way bike brands can reduce costs is by not ramming new, unnecessary, incompatible, expensive, so called "tech" down our throats every freaking year.

[@gcntech]

What sort of tech do you think is unnecessary? ⚙

[@jazzcatjohn]

@@gcntech Mostly anything integrated and proprietary such as seat posts and headsets/stems, internal cable routing, hookless rims, any frame that doesn't fit a bottom bracket correctly or that needs to be sanded, grinded, bored out, or reamed to be able to get a component to fit, epoxy/carbon dropouts, disc brakes only, and to a lesser extent epoxy/carbon frames and wheels although that's more of a preference thing.

[@jrclark222]

I deleted my dropper post a few months ago. I don’t miss it at all and appreciate the weight savings. (I ride primarily XC)

[@Livlifetaistdeth]

What they say: To many options are overwhelming What they mean: We miscalculated how popular riding, when you're not forced to, actually is and we need to recalibrate.

[@diehardbikes]

Riding is extremely popular. The US is the 3rd biggest market for it in the world. But keep in mind that people's wallets are hurting..... new people are definitely not interested when they aren't really into it much, and then see the high prices of something they aren't super into..... yeah no. Its a money thing.

[@Livlifetaistdeth]

@@diehardbikes exactly

[@diehardbikes]

@@Livlifetaistdeth you seem to be contradicting yourself

[@Livlifetaistdeth]

@@diehardbikes it's not a contradiction but you need to understand the reality of supply and demand, poor forecasting and business speak to understand what I meant.

[@diehardbikes]

@@Livlifetaistdeth I'm a business owner. My father is as well. Both of us made it through covid and my father actually grew quite a bit and had enough to buy a second house by the end of that year..... I understand supply and demand better than anyone. You have to understand how supply and demand works in a specific means to the bike industry, which is where as a business owner, pretty much ALL the brands have got it wrong. Especially on the higher end bikes.

[@jmlab22]

Hi. A little word of warning regarding the Camelbak Podium water bottles. Being a big fan of Camelbak Podium water bottles and of titanium bikes, I just had to have the Ti bottles for my Ti gravel bike. After scouring the net, I ordered a pair €€€ of these. They are beautiful bottles, no doubt! But unfortunately, I had to send them back. The standard water bottle width (for the last 100+ years - including plastic Camelbak Podium) is 73mm wide. These new ones (Podium Steel and Ti versions) are 75mm wide, which might not seem like much but as they are rigid, they don’t fit correctly in many bottle cages. Impossible to fit in Silca Sicuro Ti cages (plus metal on metal = lots of scratches) and are very tight on Bontrager carbon cages (would be dangerous trying to pull them out one handed when riding). Even the “neck” of the bottle (standard is 60mm) is wider on these (65mm) so the lip in some cages pushes them away so they won’t sit flush inside the cage. In conclusion: if you have very soft/flimsy/flexible plastic water bottle cages they’ll probably be fine.. otherwise steer clear. If ever Camelbak release a v2 with “standard” sizing (73mm / 60mm) I’ll be the first to order them again. (shout out to hollandbikeshop for taking them back and refunding)

[@mikhailway]

On top of that I want light bottles - I don’t need my water ‘cool’ so get rid of the vacuum, less material, less weight!

[@markbradshaw4960]

That titanium bottle is the icing on the cake for a Ti bike. Expensive? Yes, but you’ll not need to replace it for decades, at least. It’s a win!

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

The Gordon Ramsey menu reduction... brilliant analogy.

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

The Camelbak Podium Chill insulated plastic bottles are nice but not up for the dead of summer, after an hour or so your water will be warm. We sorely needed a double-walled vacuum sealed steel bottle! This will keep your water cold for the duration of a day long ride. Is it a bit heavier? Yes... but the cold water is worth it imo.

[@donkorleone20]

for someone riding in the Netherlands disc brakes are useless. I'm now struggling to find a bike with rim breaks and decent components. Really hope rim breaks stay around

[@rangersmith4652]

The best buys in bikes today are in the used market. Yes to more specialization. Do what you do best and let others do the rest. I love to go to restaurants at which you walk in, sit down, and get served what you knew you were going to be served.

[@gcntech]

There really are some great second hand bikes out there! What do you look for in second hand bikes? You've got to make sure you look out for the pit falls 🧐

[@rangersmith4652]

@@gcntech I guess you can call me a purist or a fuddy-duddy, depending on your own perspective. I look for rim brakes, fully mechanical gearing, rust-free high-end steel frames (usually double or triple-butted Reynolds or Columbus), and aluminum rims. I stay away from "collectible" framesets which tend to be WAY overpriced and stick to the less famous marques that are equally good. I suggest a novice buyer enlist the aid of a person who has some experience refurbishing older/vintage bikes. Folks like that (I am one) know first-hand what pitfalls to look out for. Don't buy a used bike that leaves such a person thinking about what a PITA getting that bike fit to ride is going to be. That said, always test ride the bike if you can, even if it has parts that don't work well (make sure it has at least some brakes). And don't buy an otherwise great bike that is the wrong size for you.

[@mipko]

if you take care of bottle it will last you for ages, just don't let sugary stuff go bad in it... I have camelback podium bottle for five years now and it is still good to use... Those bottles could be completely disassembled and cleaned so no issues with molding as well.

[@rob-c.]

Plus if you really have to, you can get new caps, limiting the waste and new manufacturing

[@gcntech]

Bottle care is no joke, Ollie takes it very seriously 👉kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zl6qfnhuirKbZpY 🍼

[@pauldawes9317]

Metal bottles are greenwashing. They require so much more energy and raw materials to make, but get lost just as easily as plastic ones- look after yours and plastic will be far more eco-friendly.

[@lneleven1708]

I keep trying to get myself back out and just starting again, so a vid on the best ways to just ‘get going’ again would be great. Enjoying the content

[@luukrutten1295]

The tour aero test uses stationary dummy legs but no torso or arms.

[@tbz1551]

18:31 full Beavis and Butthead moment here 😂

[@antunmcmagnais8856]

Back in the day, when a man wanted a new suit, he went to a tailor, got measured up, chose the fabric, colour etc. and ended up with a bespoke product. Today, bespoke bikes are way beyond the financial means of us mere mortals, but the industry could help out here by taking the sting out of changing the stem length, adding spacers to the head tube or even offering a selection of saddles or handlebars to try out as part of the deal.

[@gcntech]

We would love to see sizing and fit becoming a real focus for new bikes 🙌 A good fit makes all the difference 👌

[@wallygator2471]

I guess I’m a bit old school in that I work with a local shop and spec out the frame I want and all the specific components to get exactly the build content I desire. Definitely not the route for a beginner or even for most seasoned cyclists but when you know what you want and get exactly that, it makes for a splendid ride. Not something I do often but on average, about once every 10 years. By no means all the bikes, just the halo ride in the stable. Have nothing against ordering a bike direct to consumer as that is how we got into gravel riding/racing with Niner rides this past year. And a ”custom build” approach does not have to be expensive… current build in the works is a CAAD13, my first custom was a CAAD4 from 25+ years ago and I just donated that bike to make room for this incoming ride…. The most important thing is to get out and ride when you can and enjoy every moment you do get.

[@uhis1686]

@@wallygator2471it would be nice if people could just start off with a bike that fits. you know? instead of everyone being forced to ride 42cm bars and 172.5mm cranks

[@mommamooney]

I surely hope that bike companies don’t cut sizes as a way to save money. As a short person, one of the reasons it took me so long to start cycling is because a too large a bike causes me a lot of pain. I’d try to ride my husband’s large bike and end up with a massive headache. Turns out I’m an XS

[@TexasRider8516]

There should be one frame in maybe 5 sizes for gravel and road, then a slew of parts to customize your bike the way you want it. This saves on R&D.

[@jaimerojas7695]

Ollie seemed like he had too much coffee and had a hard time letting Alex finish a sentence. 😂 Great job Alex.

[@123moof]

My last few bikes have been frame-up builds largely out of frustration with lack of customization. I don't like having to buy fresh bars, stem, bar-tape, seat, shorter cranks, and then having to redo cable housings just to get a bike to ride like a want. Getting a bike with a short pre-cut steering tube also disqualifies some brands (looking at you Kona). So while my bikes are decidedly not top-end, they end up fit for my use with less frustration by going frame-up than trying to retrofit whatever the local bike shop could sell me. Bike brands also rarely sell anything but their high end frames, or only sell them at obscene price points. I've ended up being very happy with a couple cheap chinese carbon frames (one from ebay, one from AliExpress), which actually had fewer issues than the name-brand I bought (looking at you and your sheered off bolts Salsa).

[@jgrotland]

nice discussion of the phenomenon of choice overload as it applies to the bike industry. Good to see the big manufacturers are starting to see this as a problem

[@hansrudhe1034]

Don't forget that TREK has had the opportunity to build up your own bike for quite a few years, Project One

[@douglasbooth6836]

Only at the top end.

[@gcntech]

True but it's very expensive 💸 We would love to see these levels of customisation on entry level bikes

[@shannontaylor3565]

I think more modularity of components would be very good for consumers. E.g., if you don't know what you want, you buy the midrange hybrid or road bike, and spec it out with the components you want as you grow as a cyclist. Shimano is moving this way with the cues line I guess! This way you stick with the same bike but you're able to spec it out Just So, as you understand what you want. Then big brands can offer custom builds etc for some customers/as it is cost effective for them. So for consumers there are two options: buy the mid-range, good enough bike (for newbies to cycling), and slowly upgrade over time. This keeps the number of options - and decision paralysis - low for the average consumer. Then you could offer custom bikes (selecting frame + components separately) for a small fee. This would be cheaper and more eco friendly as it'd reduce fit-parts (wrong width handlebars) going to landfill, and better for the consumer as they get exactly what they want, if they know what that is. Don't know much about factory production lines, but it could also reduce stock requirements for the companies involved, as they'd build up fancy bikes from stock/existing parts in the shop that would also be used for repairs etc. This would be great for enthusiasts, as the decision making is both more modular (what level groupset, what size gears etc), but also simpler (no need to trawl the internet to find exactly what you're after).

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Shopping for a bike: overwhelming amount of choices. Si shopping for a drill: overwhelming amount of choices. Me shopping for a rain jacket: overwhelming amount of choices. HOWEVER, is choice actually bad for end users? I mean, it now takes days instead of hours to research and make a decision but in the end you have the right product for your needs.

[@MichaelLonetto]

I’m all in on focusing bike brand lines on rider fit. This used to be easy due to standards like limited bb, seat post and headset standards. None of these very round standards seem to work in the aero world we live in, so I am all for brands making fit possible on initial purchase, but definitely a +100 for maintaining some back compatibility for a bit.

[@oplkfdhgk]

i think we should have more options on the frame size and shape but other than that i don't think we need many type of similar bikes and i think they could even use like ai to help people pick good frame size and shape so it is simpler for the customer.

[@gcntech]

Would you like to see more brands adopting half sizes? 📏

[@oplkfdhgk]

also smaller road bike tires would be nice too. for me 28 inch is too big. for me 24 inch is ideal but the really aren't any good road bike tires that are that size except ones that are like 23mm wide which is way too thin :D

[@hansrudhe1034]

I like that you focus on mid-range bikes, but you need to showcase top-of-the-range bikes and gear. It is so nice to hang on to the development.

[@gcntech]

We're all about celebrating bikes of all styles 👌

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

"Looks like it's just been chucked into the forrest", that sounds like something Monty Python wood say.

[@SaltyDog242]

Consolidating is much better for bike shops. Having to hold less SKU’s make it easier for shop to hold inventory needed to cover and not have a lot of bikes left over at end of year.

[@alansmith2593]

I like Giant bikes cos they have a cheaper option (Contend), a long long distance comfy bike (Defy) a thorough bread race machine (TCR) and an aero road (Propel) then any other options are just different specs and carbon lay ups but essentially the 4 main geometries and their website easily displays this :)

[@viralfire]

Cycling jerseys are not dyed. The colours are printed on. Printed on the outside...the inside is usually white.

[@crbondur]

As you're discussing the simplification of models bike brands offer, I like that you're discussing things from the perspective of the consumer. However, one aspect to keep in mind is that limiting the number of bike models offered actually saves the manufacturers a TON of money. Fewer SKUs mean lower production costs and lower marketing costs, allowing them to concentrate more of their capital on "all-rounder" models like the Tarmac, Super Six Evo, and TCR. If they're smart, the brands will pass these savings on to the consumer, allowing for less expensive entry-level models.

[@JimmyDot]

@drinkbivo makes stainless steel water bottles. Also, they’re great. The flow is the best thing about these. I drink a lot more water than I normally would on a run. #drinkbivo

[@MarkMcGuireD]

The titanium and steel bottles should also reduce the risk of black mould forming in the bottles. The plastic podium bottles are always having recalls for valve issues and are terrible for cleaning leading to mould forming.

[@richm.3477]

I am an American, and I was fortunate to spend 3 months living in England long ago. I think Ollie's American impressions are funny in general. However, I literally laughed out loud when Alfonso said, "You're just gonna make people hate us," to which Ollie replied without hesitation, "I know" and you both laughed with satisfaction. Then again, an English friend said I have a very British sense of humour, which I took as a great compliment, so I may not be the typical American viewer. (Apologies to Alex for making yet another joke about viewers' identity crisis regarding him.)

[@paulskinner599]

As someone who used to work in the industry as a bikefitter I’m not sure I agree that brands are slimming down ranges. Specialized for example currently retail in the UK Road sector..Tarmac, Aethos (you forgot about this) Roubaix, Crux and Diverge. Also you forgot about the Pinarello X when talking about Pinarello. Completely agree though that slimming down models would be a good thing. IMO all brands need is a race optimised bike, endurance bike that doesn’t weigh as much as a planet and a gravel bike. Also completely agree and love what Pinarello and Orbea are doing with more size including smaller sizes and component size options from the factory.

[@jedisdad2265]

Alex and Ollie THANK YOU so much for not using those stupid microphones Dan and Si seem to like.

[@GeeFunk84]

Loved the little Beavis and Butt-head moment with 'fishnet stockings".

[@jensbertholhansen3435]

Alex is the man! Love the demonstration of the self-emptying bottle 😂

[@TheMilosDjuric]

Saying that manufacturers should not try being more profitable at the expense of the customer right after mentioning how people buy more discbrake bikes is so contradictory. People wouldn't switch to electronic shifting, tubeless, hookless or discs if the media wasn't pushing for this in favour of the manufacturers, at the expense of the customers.

[@tom_er8359]

Disagree. Havent had a single flat since i tried and finally completely switched to tubeless. I run electronic shifting even on my winter bike since the mechanical was always acting up in the wet and grime. After commuting with a 7km decent for one winter on rim brakes i was a full disc convert. Switched to disc for this winter and its a difference like night and day.

[@LukaszMielczarek]

so you will still riding with v-breaks if you have disc brakes available?

[@TheMilosDjuric]

I haven't had a single flat in years, and I run inner tubes on all my bikes (roadbike with 23mm tires), disc for the travel bike and calipers on race bike. Had all sorts of Shimano and Sram mechanical groupsets, only acting-up was when something was worn out or damaged. The point is not that I don't like or use modern tech, the point is having a choice and having an option to ride and service older bikes and not pushing to make them obsolete and unserviceable. I like my 2015 tarmac, I don't want to be pushed into a disc bike if the rim brake stuff gets fazed out, and same with groups.

[@cuebj]

Could trigger lots of comments from me, age 69. But I want to promote a charitable project in Lewisham that reflects some features of the video * Back in the day: Dawes made touring bikes. Colnago made race bikes. and so on. A lost the ability to read bike magazines about 15 years ago with the plethora of varieties and fashions and the market left my budget behind. I do like the move towards wider tyres and rims, especially in light of rutted roads. I gave away a few bikes during lockdown to folks who needed them. Few people have space for more than two bikes and most have space for one. Very few people now have a background of maintaining bikes from childhood and have no space to do it in their flat - hence the rise of local repair shops and even old bike shops ceasing from selling and focusing on repairs. * Yesterday, I saw a shop in Lewisham Shopping Centre - it's a charity that rains ex-offenders to service bikes and receives bikes from police unclaimed bikes, strips them down, cleans and rebuilds. Wow! The shopfront is a total drool factory of classic bikes - race, commuter, mountain, etc. Glorious sidepull, eg one with Campag Super Record. Some with downtube shifters. A Boardman aluminium gravel type bike with fat tyres but immaculate that makes so much sense I asked if I could swap my Specialized Roubaix Elite 2018 bike for it and then upgrade the groupset on the Boardman to 105 - such a sensible bike! * They also make up new bikes using orange frames that they buy in and each bike has the builder's code on the top tube. * XO BIKES, Lewisham Shopping Centre. I wish I had a spare £2k to change my bike options completely: one urban, one classic race, one fixed, one all purpose fat tyre distance luggage and rough road.

[@volkervoit]

Small correction needed, Tour Magazine is not testing the bike alone, they test the bike with a half body dummy that includes rotating legs to be as realistic as possible.

[@D1N02]

When I buy a bike the first thing I do is replace tyres, saddle and rear sprocket, so I have three things I don't use right away. And give me some pedals is an option. I will likely replace the stem as well because my legs are relatively longer than most men and my torso shorter. So a casual bike fit will always give me a too long reach, but if I get a smaller model I am stretching the maximum seat post height.

[@squishybiker]

Some things bike brands can do: Drop multiple axle standards and put through axles on all bikes, then you can reduce the stock of wheels. Only setup complete bikes up to mid-upper tier groupsets, and make framesets more accessible, or even enable build your own bike options available more global - people who know what they want will most likely want the latest top spec components and contacts points (more of what Canyon do). Make framesets more customizable, ie, support both headset cable routing AND downtube cable routing. Create more industry standards, ie, aero seat post profile, aero bar direct mounts, aero stem spacers, etc, so that 3rd party vendors can make the accessories while bike brands innovate around the standards.

[@rob-c.]

When I bought my last bike, there was a specific model I wanted. I looked at what was around in my price range and in a colour/spec I wanted and I bought it. Didn’t have to look at any of the other thousands of models at all, so very little choice paralysis for me.

[@gerrymcbride6429]

Same for me.

[@yownos]

Hi GCN, thanks a lot for the show. It’s been (and still is) a great introduction to road cycling for me. You’ve mentioned that the ability to have multiple options for contact points (saddle, stem or crank length, etc…) is something that should be offered more often. It’s definitely great and you get a bike that exactly fits you. Some manufacturers offer such options for their whole line (Origine Cycle, Shimano Neutral Service’s bike provider, being one of those). Smaller manufacturers can afford assembling on demand, I’m not sure that most of the bigger ones can. So I guess that would not help reducing stocks. PS: See, you can be both French AND pretentious ^^

[@ChinCycling]

So glad you guys didn’t put the mics

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

It works for Cade Media, it won't work for GCN.

[@adamnash2711]

Soooo refreshing to hear GCN commentary that equally endorses (Orbea) and may call into question (white shorts, metal bidons) products that they might be sponsored by.... Keep telling us what you really think and I will keep showing up!

[@MrYorrik]

I’d say you’re being a little kind to the industry with the “reduced options will help overwhelmed consumers” angle. It feels completely driven by streamlining to reduce operating costs for an industry facing some difficulties. Still, it’s the best way for them to reduce costs as a little less choice won’t hurt the customer, and it might produce some more good all-round/endurance options for those like me who click “Average” or “In good shape” rather than “Athletic” on Komoot.

[@noptimized]

#askGCNtech thinking about insulated bottles, I can’t remember if you’ve ever covered water temperature on the channel. Now that I think of it, a whole episode on how to drink water might be useful. How much? How often? Does rinse and spit do anything? Water temperature? In summer vs. winter? I’d love to hear an expert talk about this.

[@JPFletcher-lb9vc]

Two bike vault entries in a row with Praxis Zayante Carbon cranks. I'm a bit surprised that Dennis and Terry didn't notice this, given their obvious attention to detail.

[@enriquevallano3049]

All up for Orbea’s approach. It means they understand the excitement of building your bike and feeling it is yours, rather than an over the counter. At the price of bikes, I rather building my own.

[@IamPapaShaw]

There is choice-bloat. TREK offers 15 different version of its Domane endurance bike (4th generation), priced between $1,000-$13,000. And they still sell several Generation 3 options.

[@mrnosy1]

As someone who has a short torso and very long legs, I would love to see more emphasis on fit. Because of my long legs I'm entirely limited to the endurance option, and to get the fit I want I still need aftermarket stem and handlebar changes.

[@sparx550]

Another quality show and big shout out to that vintage Peugeot in the Bike Vault, Gorgeous.

[@matt_acton-varian]

Direct to consumer brands have an advantage because you can have a fixed standard colour options, and build up to demand - reducing stocked complete bikes going unsold and only ordering the add-on components required.

[@ThePeter123a]

Currently the bicycle industry is struggling with too many models and options. A counterexample is the Tesla Model Y electric car, which has few options and became the world's best-selling car.

[@mitchpaliga4851]

I enjoy high tech bike stuff and the "105 for the people" concept that you cover. Both keep me motivated to ride on. Thanks Olex and Allie!

[@gcntech]

We'll continue to cover every corning of the cycling tech world 🙌Thanks for being part of the Tech community!

[@RobS49120]

It would be an interesting study to see what areas of an aero bike are more affected by the rider. Forks, for example would likely be minimally affected but what about the rest of the bike? Are we wasting efforts on aero seat stays? Perfect assignment for Dr. Ollie!

[@cortneywebb1677]

Also if there is less bike models they can keep more stock of parts that correlate to more bike models. So if something like a frame cracks and you need warranty replacement maybe you won't have to wait a long time for a replacement they could already have availability.

[@troycollett8540]

Focus only offers the izalco now and dropped the Cayo which was a brilliant bike

[@gcntech]

Why do you think they the Cayo? 🚴

[@troycollett8540]

@@gcntech not too sure as it was a great endurance bike I have the 2016 105 model and it’s brilliant

[@jayhoughton4174]

Having fewer model options cuts down on production lines / costs and distribution logistics / costs as well as stock levels / costs in shops. Trying to give the customers multiple component options for each model does add to the cost at the retailer end, but that is probably where the added value should sit.

[@magicknight8412]

Big brands reducing their SKUs is reminiscent of the retail world where big brands opened up so many new shops and suffered because of it and end up closing them down.

[@gcntech]

Do you welcome less choice? Or are you happy with the current range? 🚲

[@magicknight8412]

@@gcntechI do actually, makes choosing much easier and quicker.

[@spazmosisdomesticus]

I’m not happy with less choice. I was at a trek store in Tempe az . 2 days ago. The owner was describing the trek shrinking its sku . The shop had one 56 frame road bike and it was black matte. The owner was telling me he’s getting in some GT brand gravel bikes next week . He showed me what he considered “color” it was such a diluted shade or blue it could be called gray. Sad.

[@TulaneAve]

I think you missed the fact that all major selling brands stay in business from sales of the entry-to-midlevel bikes, not the top-end models. Reducing the model lines is wise but increasing customization on the bikes would most viable in a mail-direct business model, which is probably not how most bikes are purchased.

[@a1yallop]

The analogy of focusing on 'less on the menu' would also transfer to presenters on KZbin channels too!

[@gcntech]

We think we've got a pretty goo menu at the moment 😉

[@PeterKooimanNL]

About the saddle angle: when you step off the bike when you have to pee, it should flow immediately. If not: tilt your saddle a bit forwards till that problem is solved. It is cool if some jurks thinks your bike looks cool, but it is essential to have your bicycle set up right for you.

[@wspmjw]

In line with your suggestion that less options are better, A visit to my LBS yielded a huge amount of unused floor space. They're a Trek dealer and are not purchasing bikes as there are too many options in the road bike categories. Domaine = 52 SKUs They cannot afford to carry an entire line.

[@lovemesomedetail]

9:50 i dont know about this one. when were talking about making it easier for customers to chose a bike and reduce the amount of overwhelming options i think it would be conterproductive to increase the number of options on the contact points. i think that would only be an advantage for enhausiasts that have dug into their personal best fit, which also only benefits them cause they dont have to spend extra time or money to find the fitting piece and sell the original one. if a person that is currently overwhelmed even by the amount of frame sizes, i dont think theyll be better off chosing singular parts. therefore i think the science on what fits best for most that the bike brands have already researched is the way to go.

[@adamsolomon9353]

I think it's odd that you can buy a frame a build it up with your favorite components for less than factory build options. 12 years ago, that was unheard of but it's pretty common now.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

I hope the reduction in models does not end up with every bike being boring black. What bike brands could do is at least offering the bare frameset in EVERY paintjob they have. I love the idea of the 1k used bike epic ride.

[@jameslee-pevenhull5087]

In 1960, the year I was born, Holdsworth sold the Hurricane model, their top model. Reynolds 531 frame, Campagnolo Gran Sport gears and alloy parts. It was £35, 12 shillings and sixpence ( £35.62 ) Using the Bank of England Inflation Calculator, £35 12/6 would be £689. I totally understand why the bicycle industry is in the brown and smelly. I have a couple of 60s bikes that would fetch £700.

[@stevemawer848]

Of course, you're assuming the wages of the people making them and the raw materials haven't gone up at all in that time.

[@kibbee890]

This is part of the reason why Apple is so popular in the computer market. It's a lot easier to choose when you don't have 100 different options. If you want a Mac laptop, you only really have a couple different options, Macbook Air, or Mac Pro, then you pick screen size, and then you add on how much RAM and storage you want. With a PC, there's a million different options to consider even if you're going from a single manufacturer.

[@mauricetremblay1324]

I believe bikes should not be prebuilt and the bike shop should make it to your requirements or desire ( if you have the €£¥$). I paid over 10K for my Specialized and I could not chose any components. I could pay more to change them but then I was stuck with the original equipment. I agree with you guys 110%. Cheers.

[@rob-c.]

The -problem with the food on the menu analogy, is that a restaurant could have 10 items on its menu which are all very different to suit a wide variety of tastes - but they don’t then have to offer different versions of that item. A bike manufacturer could slim down their range to 2 bikes, but after you added in the 4-5 different sizes followed by all the spec/fit options Alex wants them to have, they gone well beyond that. Having to offer a custom spec option like Orbea has is surely way more expensive than a handful of pre-stocked, boxed up items?

[@litespud]

A racing bike, and endurance bike for mere mortals, a gravel bike for the trekkersOne color, changing each model year, and a decent range of builds and sizes

[@miguelcpt]

You forgot the Specialized Allez which is an entry level bike. Aluminium but a dream bike.

[@kidShibuya]

Yey! More tyres I cannot buy in 650b road sizes! Always fun.

[@gcntech]

Do you struggle for 650b road tyres? 👀

[@Albin111]

Ollie mentioned pinarello had a Rim brake bike option and yet nobody bought it. The problem is, when groupset manufacturers only make new parts for the Disc brake consumer base, it’s hard not to shun the Rim option - SRAM, campy and shimano didn’t go down the route that forced consumers to purchase Disc and maintained development for Rim groupsets there will be more people buying that option. The lack of availability of rim brake options has more to do with the lack of option in regard to parts than simply the so called superiority of disc

[@StuFromOz99]

One of the options for simplifying bike models would just be for the manufacturers to sell frame only bikes, that then your retailer or the purchaser then adds on the traditional items to add to the bike. While this is usually an option for most bike brands, I do not think it is ever going to be a popular choice for them.

[@zogworth]

That sounds like an absolute nightmare for me.

[@_J.F_]

I welcome the smaller 'menu' as things have been spinning out of control lately. I mean we have had road bikes, MTBs, and commuter bikes for ages, but is gravel bikes, ice bikes, grass bikes, snow bikes, headwind bikes and downhill bikes possibly creating a requirement that isn't really there, and at the same time putting an enormous pressure on the logistics and through that the cost of a decent bike.

[@aglees2b]

Fully agree on fit components needing to be more customisable

[@adamweb]

The bike industry is just a constant experiment of how much people will pay for tech lol

[@RyonBeachner]

Pinarello had a K10 model as well. It went away, but you can make the argument that the new Dogma X is the successor to it. Both are “endurance” models, the X simply got rid of the suspension gimmick.

[@stevenhalley4500]

Titanium water bottles; my only issue is I had a klean kanteen bottle, still do actually, lasts years, but I retired it from my bike as the rattle was annoying. Just something to bear in mind, some electrical tape etc may help this.

[@eyeq1451]

25:48 Yay, you rang the bell on my bike! 😍 Actually, the (old) Elbe tunnel has been built in the early 1900s to get workers to and from the docks on the other side of the Elbe. You can go down only by elevator or staircases, there are four huge elevators on either side even suited for cars (!) and two for pedestrians only. There has been a period where cars were allowed through there, but since the two tubes are extremely narrow current cars wouldn't even be able to fit through without scraping the raised curbs. Because of that cars will likely never be allowed to go down there, nowadays it's pedestrian and cyclists only. 🤗 The second tube is currently undergoing restorations to make it as nice as the tube you can see in the picture.

[@gcntech]

Thanks for submitting the bike 🙌 Is the tunnel part of your daily riding? 🚴

[@eyeq1451]

@@gcntechNope, I live and work on the outskirts of Hamburg. Every now and then I use the tunnel so I had the idea of going there early Sunday morning to get an empty-ish tunnel for the pics.

[@artc.657]

Advancements in technology now enable aero bikes to be lighter and lightweight bikes to be more aerodynamic. Simplifying options could reduce costs for brands, ultimately benefiting customers. Lower prices would make purchasing easier for newcomers and those seeking their second bike. While I'm interested in a disc brake bike, the current pricing is a deterrent. I’ll stick to my trusty rim brakes for now.

[@serhiirudenko6183]

Not so long ago i got a not expensive gravel bike from a local brand. There's 2x9 transmission. I like that setup but would like to replace some components to higher quality ones but I can't. All options i have is Alivio, which is pretty low quality these days. Luckily I could find new old stock Sram PG-980 caseette. Lightweight, long lasting, perfect for me but very rare at this point. And I'm not gonna upgrade all the groupset. It would cost like all my bike. One of the reasons this industry going bad is lack of AFFORDABLE options.

[@ThomasHubik]

I think tour magazine test the bikes, with a moving, pedaling, lower human body, set up with reflectors and lasers to repeat the same sitting position on every bikes, not the bike only as mentioned here!

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

Who will be first to offer full and true a la carte bikes?? I'd love to spec each bit exactly as I want!

[@jeffwebb2136]

@faracycling bikes allow each customer to select all contact points and spec on 3 specific models (Road, All-Road and Gravel) at D2C prices - Makes Sense!

[@JMJM75257]

I feel like the direct to customer bike brands should move towards a build my bike approach with a slimmed down frameset selection, with three options for components. low, mid and high end. This would allow people to tailor the bike to their needs like pairing a mid tier groupset with high end wheels or vice versa etc. they could still produce pre configured bikes but in the lower end with a simple one sku options. the ownace is on bike brads to manufacture bikes for the majority of people which means an all round design language. let companies who want to specialise have the niche but ultimately all around everyday bikes should make up the majority of sales for everything but the high end imo.

[@Poisonous_Odd_or_Sheep]

I totally support the personalising of size and components, would have made my recent purchase easier and cheaper and I wouldn’t have a bunch of stuff selling on marketplace.