The Collapse of The Entry Level Road Bike Market

[@GCPerformance18]

Realistically what do you think the solutions is to the entry level bike scene, without making the bikes $200 dollars, The allez bike use to be such a staple in our store and also the entry level tarmacs and Roubaix's but for some reason right now there is not even a conversation on entry level bikes.

[@daniellutz9923]

Every entry level buyer bought the last years and those people do not buy every year…

[@gourami7]

12001500 bike with Tiagra, cheap wheels The industry can't survive with cheapest bikes at 2k+

[@utube7930]

Let them eat cake

[@chris_gb_]

I don't really see how independent stores are going to compete going forward, entry level is the first to go but mid tier will likely disappear next and maybe high end will end up being exclusive and boutique like the Pinarello stores, and a few high end 'agents' who do fittings for custom. You can't compete against online pricing or the buying power of Decathlon and very limited number of large chains. I don't know the US stores, but for the UK it will be Decathlon and Halfords, that's where the entry level bikes will be for bricks & mortar stores, the rest will be online. A few brand like Canyon will probably open up more 'experience centres' but you'll still be ordering online, and the local bike shop still won't be able compete on price. There is a lot of positivity around Decathlon's Triban bike that is ~£800 (probably around $800 US.) They have sold it recently with 105, but I think it's now Microshift, which is still pretty good at that price. Does the US have anything similar? something from CostCo maybe? I just don't know what else I would suggest for anyone in the UK, the answer is always going to be Decathlon or find something second hand. Shimano CUES for drop bars is coming soon, do they start releasing the drop bar shifters early in 2024? That might give a bit of a boost to the bikes at the entry level, but it will only be a small boost because everyone is still being crushed by the cost of living crisis. I think independent bike shop business owners need to think hard about pivoting away from selling bikes asap, move the business wholly toward servicing, fitting and training. @Mapdec has the right idea. Going mid - high end, and then high end only might be a way forward in the short to medium term.

[@Jowpie21]

In EU markets I'd say those kind of bike sales are cornered by Decathlon with their stellar offerings at low price points around & under 1K €. Considering big brands aren't willing to put out good bikes at those prices amateurs are not likely to go to dedicated bike stores to spend there. They're more likely to be picking up a starter bike & gear at a Decathlon store while shopping with their partner or kids.

[@Sweetskis]

The entry level road bike market is buying a $3000 bike used from someone on Facebook marketplace for $900 when the previous owner buys a $7500 new bike.

[@michaelbeuoy4293]

Never understood the group set thing, I currently have bicycles with 800 series GRX down to Claris and they all have worked flawlessly. I personally think that cycling kind of needs to lose it's snobbery!

[@event4216]

Owning an expensive gear in any hobby kind of compensates for lack of efforts. Maybe I'm too harsh in my opinion.....

[@gafk2975]

For those that just want to ride on the weekend it doesn't really matter, however for enthusiasts or those who put some decent miles in will make a huge difference in all aspects. It's not just a few extra cogs in the back and some weight savings, there are major things like effective gears, the difference in percieved effort between two consecutive gears, etc. All these things get better with each higher tier of group set. So if you are somewhat serious about riding you should read about it.

[@nik-roshansirak3398]

@@event4216 You're not. 😄 Started cycling with a rubbish 13kg 300€ new aluminum monster from Amazon, Shimano Tourney 2x7, couldn't push up the entire 300m of elevation on my local route, had to walk up there, got an old carbon bike from the early 2000's with 3x10 Ultegra, got up there for the first time, now I got like a five year old carbon bike with 2x11 Ultegra setup and it's actually fun to climb up there for the first time. 😂 So yeah, expensive gear makes up a little bit for lack of power, but it also makes the whole experience a lot nicer. If you look for used gear though, you can save a lot and get a mid range or even high end bike for the same amount of a new entry level bike, if you can accept a few scratches here and there and do your own maintenance...

[@dombaydog]

@@event4216 no, you're right.. look at people on the green runs at exclusive ski resorts, sporting $2000 skis.. it's the same. Everyone's sold the same story.. you'll be faster, stronger and gooder if you have Olympic level gear..

[@rhodeislandhiker4745]

I ride a $250 Walmart Ozark trail bike that gets confused with a $2k bike . Check it out Ozark trail 700c

[@rob90429]

Bring the CAAD10-12 back. Use more rim brakes and lightweight aluminum at the entry level points. These bikes were awesome.

[@zoso73]

Exactly!!!

[@gk5891]

Van Rysel EDR AF 105 FULL R7000 105 Groupset Fulcrum 6 Wheelset 8.8 kg $1,199.00 That's the entry level benchmark.

[@zoso73]

@@gk5891 YES.

[@ShowMeThePony]

I think you nailed it when you mentioned the used bike market. That’s where entry level buyers are going for “cheap” bikes right now. They’re flooded with them. It’s funny though, I can remember having customers come in and ask what’s the cheapest bike you have? Back then, and where I was located, that meant a mountain bike. We sold the Specialized Hardrock for $289 and people would gasp in horror. Then I would tell them my shoes cost more than that and they’d laugh like I was kidding. Good memories.

[@whunderwhoiam2489]

Pros closet is a scam, I hope they aren’t going there

[@kyleslater5245]

@@whunderwhoiam2489new people likely won’t go there. They are more likely to buy something from Walmart/amazon.

[@cup_and_cone]

​@@whunderwhoiam2489 Local used market is where most beginners shop.

[@timothyhollmann8571]

Why do you hate Pros Closet, I bought a used Scott Foil team addition, bike new was 8k, bought for 3k. The bike had dura ace and 404 firecrest Zipps. I know if I crash a bike thats my first look is Pros Closet for replacment.

[@ShowMeThePony]

@@whunderwhoiam2489 I don’t know if I’d call them a scam? They’re business people doing business in a capitalistic way. Because America. 🇺🇸

[@visobs]

For me, it has always been simple: I'd rather buy a used, older model that's above mid-range or top-tier, than something new for the same price or slightly cheaper. That's why my second bike was an old Venge Pro and my third, a Pinarello, now I buy new, but only because I’m old and have money.

[@RektNOOBTrader]

I’m getting into road biking and I’m honestly shocked at the snobbery and superiority complex a lot of these road bikers have, it’s just a big pissing contest… I only ride alone now.

[@Unknownmanufacturer]

Group rides are a nightmare.

[@lunam7249]

ex-olympian here, ride for your fun, on a bike you dont worry about getting stolen, gentle on cardio...simple

[@PRH123]

Sure you aren't just Jungian reflecting your insecurity and fear of athletic inadequacy onto them? I ride slow and steady and usually alone nowadays. But back in the day when I was racing we were very competitive and everyone trying to be faster than the others. That's just focus, not snobbery.

[@lunam7249]

@@PRH123 here in california , ya just shit medium rookie riders on $8000 bikes!! 90% snobs on bikes more than $ 500

[@ANTULIOMORA]

@@Unknownmanufacturerwhy?????

[@willanderson1983]

The push to disc and e-sets is insane. Literally nobody new is gonna need either.

[@00100Matt]

Fair, but having electronic shifting is a WHOLE LOT more reasonable than having headset-routed cables and housing on a bike with Sora components

[@paulallen3511]

Disk brakes aren't adding much to the price of bikes. They still make a lot of no electronic shifting bikes.

[@theCranesUS]

Agreed. I want rim brakes. I have always had rim brakes and never had a an issue with them so why do I need hydraulic brakes?

[@paulallen3511]

@@theCranesUS You can buy rim brake bikes. A lot of folks are wanting to buy disc brake bikes, so they offer those too.

[@rprodgers1]

If you don’t sell what the customers want you have problems as a business.

[@SystemParanoia]

Decathlon rc120 disk with microshift r9 is where I think entry level is @ £499 and 11kg $1200 to dip a toe in the water is madness

[@hillariat2147]

Decathlon doing great with the entry level road bikes

[@SystemParanoia]

@@hillariat2147 I agree 💯

[@johnd.obrien6838]

Agreed. Twelve hundred dollars for an "entry level" road bike is absurd.

[@dskillzhtown]

@@johnd.obrien6838 Agreed. Dropping $1200 for something that you don't know if you will like or not is a bit much. Even if they end up loving biking, most people are only going to be casual with it. They will ride 5 miles here, 15 miles there, etc. Not really taking it serious enough to justify a $1200 purchase. They might upgrade some components down the line, but no need to drop major dollars up front.

[@pokefriend7628]

You can find em under 300$ used where im from

[@hcw199]

I spent £680 on my Giant Contend SL2 in 2017. Alloy frame carbon fork and seat post. Tiagra groupset. Still going strong with nearly 50,000 kms on it. Lifetime frame warranty 😊

[@tobznoobs]

im trying to do the same with a giant revolt 1 in 2023 with grx 400 and tiagra fd. but have to pay 100$ more than a giant contend sl2 from 2017. hopefully it still goes strong 5 yrs from now

[@hcw199]

@@tobznoobs Giant are good bikes. I have needed to replace the bottom bracket two times though and have changed the wheels because my rims got worn out on the long mountain descents. But obviously things will wear out if you cycle a lot!

[@anshumansahoo4869]

680 nowadays barely gets you a claris, freakin barely 🥲💀

[@Priogen]

My first bike was a Giant Defy Advance 2. Loved that bike, put so many miles on her. Still hella pissed that she got stolen 5 years ago when I locked her in the basement of my apartment with two different locks.

[@hcw199]

@@tobznoobs To be fair I bought it on sale reduced from £850 I believe... I have changed serviceable parts.. bbs and chainrings/cassettes.

[@galenkehler]

Its simple. The people who can only afford a 2k bike are struggling to afford rent and food.

[@justaletdown]

Bought an in brand new condition Sworks SL6 rimbrake with Ultegra DI2 with hand build carbon rims for 2000 euro a few months ago who "upgraded" to a SL7 disc. I think the disc brake bikes + all cables fully internally routed opened the door to this insane raise in prices as disc groupsets were on average more expensive. Combine that with the corona pandemic and boom there you go. Just a few years back you were having a superbike like an tcr or supersix with Ultegra for around 3k. Now on channels like this one, those bikes are "bad" because they have rimbrakes yet they complain about the prices 😂

[@paulwilliams4990]

Exactly

[@Gamebreaker08]

You can get an entry level road bike from Specialized for 1200 usd. I think even trek as an entry level road bike for 800 with rim brakes. People need to realize you don’t need to spend 2 or 4K to have an amazing bike. The biggest upgrade for most people will always be their body and fitness, not the bike.

[@galenkehler]

@@Gamebreaker08 the cheaper you go, the less likely people are to have disposable income

[@williamko4751]

Totally wrong. It is not 'afford', it is willing to pay. I drive a Prosche, I can AFFORD a SL8. I am just not willing to pay a bike more than my Kawasaki. It is a 'bike' for God's sake. No need to pay over 2K if you are not a professional.

[@ulyssemeersseman4161]

When I got into cycling in 2020 I purchased a 10 speed disc brake bike for 1000€. I checked again this year and for that price you now get 8 speed bikes. A bit hard to swallow when you hear about trickle down technology

[@thetruthspeaker5101]

People need to stop judging and people need to stop giving a f#%k as to what people think about what you have. Buy what you like and can afford and enjoy yourself. If anyone has anything negative to say just walk away and ignore them you don’t need a person like that in your life

[@iambent1]

E-bikes are killing entry road bike sales. I have had people come up to me and say they really like my bike (Trek Domane AL 5). Then they ask what does a bike like that cost, and I say $2k, and they say are you freaking kidding me. I later see the same people riding an e-bike. These new riders who would never consider spending $2k on a road bike, will drop $4k on an e-bike like it's nothing.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea this is true as well, ebike online are crazy cheap and for sure steer people away and lead them to that crap ebike

[@AK-oz4ew]

You are right, imagine novice bikers, a family couple, not in the best shape, $2K to spend per bike when Aventon has those pretty fancy electric ones for $1000 with 60 miles of range, wow, honey, we can have two for the price of one and ride for whole day!

[@veins91]

Started riding in September of this year coming off a running injury. I was that guy "I only need something to get the job done". Got a Trek Domane AL 3 disc for 1500. Now im doing 180-200 mile weeks. It comes with Shimano Sora (9 speed). Knowing what I know now I would've spent the extra cash to get the AL5 with Shimano 105. 2K would be my absolute limit with my terrible paying job

[@mbv13]

Same here - I do about the same mileage and also came to cycling from running a year and a half ago - have gone from an Allez to a Domane 4 to currently a Canyon Endurace 7 with 105. I can’t imagine going back to Sora.

[@zedddddful]

You can always slap a 105 11 speed groupset on your bike.

[@motogp9253]

Both the Domane AL5 and the Canyon Endirance CF7 look nice!

[@benjaminrodriguez-maniere6694]

@@mbv13 Sora is great. I kick the ass of guys on their 5$k-10$k bikes with my $500 Sora bike from Decathlon. I love it! Owning 2 cassettes for different riding terrains makes it even more competent (11-34 for climing, 11-28 for flatter terrain)

[@snookstuh170]

Damn, just got that bike for 999

[@cicliolmo7152]

20 odd years ago, for good (or bad), there was Lance Armstrong show every July. TdF stages (lasting 3 hours) would re-cycle on TV 2-3 times a day. At times, the TdF day's stage was the lead story on ESPN. This was a marketing bonanza for the bicycle industry and the average Joe wanted to be part of it. The economy was good and Dura-Ace/Utegra carbonTreks/Specialized were flying off the store racks. Heck, my good friend who's main hobby was bass fishing even bought a higher end Specialized at the time - along with the clothing and clipless pedals, etc. Today, no such story. Even with Sepp Kuss' historic Vuelta win, you would have been hard pressed to find the race on TV. I also think that the people who bought those Treks/Specialized 20 years ago realize that those bikes are solid functional machines that still suit their needs today - there's no reason for them to spend $8000-$10000 just for marginal new technology. If all I'm doing are social 40 mile group ride on the weekends, do I really need today's disc brakes, e-shifters, or exotic carbon frames ? probably not.

[@willisix2554]

You are absolutely right! I brought my Allez in 2003! The only reason I brought a new Bike is because my Allez has a crack in the head tube

[@AutoCAD681]

Personally as a beginner $1000-2000 dollar is alot of money. Spending $2000+ and I'm still getting Tiagra only (historically a low end groupset) and not even the mid tier groupset 105 is abit too much to swallow. Plus you are only getting a 10 speed, like you said you can start imagining more upgrades again in the future which adds to the $2000+ you are spending

[@difflocktwo]

Beginner of what?

[@bendawson7060]

Everyone loves to hate on the retro grouch crowd, but there is no denying the older technology with rim brakes was cheaper. 10 speed Tiagra with rim brakes. 11 speed 105 with rim brakes. It will bring the price down to where it needs to be.

[@lunam7249]

thier actually better even at the same price, overall including the "hassle factor"

[@sketchy0078]

People need to stop buying pro bikes. They are meant for professionals and are usually sponsored to the rider. The industry is creating its own downfall. What happened to bikes like the Giant Defy, Specialized Allez and the Cannondale Cadd series. They used to come in with 105 and under £1200 and the Ultegra would be around £1500.

[@HkFinn83]

Different market. The bike companies are catering to them because they can sell one 16k bike instead of 32 $500 bikes. It’s just a totally different business to what it was 20 years ago

[@PRH123]

There are plenty of companies filling in that gap in the market that those companies are abandoning. Look at Decathlon, Velo Orange, Microshift, and many other up and coming Chinese brands. As Mr. Burns would say, let the fools have their ten thousand dollar carbon bikes :)

[@i0am0not0a0number]

The market is flooded with good used bikes. As an example I just bought an eighties Holdsworth. Hand made in England 531 frame like new for $200. The difference between a good older bike and a modern bike for a beginner is small. But 200 vs >1000 is a big difference.

[@johnsenior478]

In my 50 years of cycling in the UK I’ve seen cycling go from being a working class niche gritty sport to just a new version of golf where new bikes, supporting your children into cycling and moving from amateur to elite require either total self sacrifice, an elite job or rich parents. Energy profiteering, food profiteering, out of control rents and housing mean most people having to prioritise the cost of living crisis. As such people who bought a 1K 2K road bike during the pandemic will 1) Never replace it 2) will never upgrade to a 3/4k bike and 3) will probably take up running . You can buy a good car for the price of a top end road/ mountain bike.

[@neilmurray1359]

I'm afraid buyer is king now. the Bike companies had it good during pandemic. Realistically Pre pandemic High-end were 6-7 grand acceptable for what you got however greed has taken over and the companies attitude across all suppliers have to take a reality check.

[@chilliesandbikes]

A specialized Allez, with a 8speed Shimano Claris and mechanical disc, for $1200 is an absolute ripoff ! Unless the bike manufacturers (not just specialized, but all manufacturers) find a way of getting these prices down, I feel the entry level bike sales are not going to go up.

[@rsilentdou]

Allez sport rim brakes with sora was my first road bike. this past month upgraded to a tcr with 105 di2 and carbon wheels...great bike...but it made me realize how much value an entry level bike holds. That allez was amazing.

[@mmurmurjohnson2368]

I've got newer bikes but upgraded my 2009 Allez and still ride it all the time and it's crazy fast, obviously built around athletes, my newer bikes are fun too but obviously built around comfy comsumers

[@IowaNinersFan]

That Allez sport rim brakes is also my first road bike which I bought used. I like that bike but would like to upgrade to something more modern preferably carbon with Ultegra but no electronic shifting. Personally, I think Specialized are sharp looking bikes but their prices are outrageous.

[@marcinstyle85]

Agree I bought Allez Sport 2012(demo bike for £500!) added zipp60 wheelset what a great bike it was ! , then 2018 upgraded to Giant Propel

[@freddyevents7518]

my allez elite dsw from 2015 comes with tiagra and i think was entry level specs of the time, I upgraded to ultegra 6700, zonda wheels, narrow handlebar, some carbon parts...the result is amazing, fast, sharp handling and pretty light at 7,5 kg

[@willisix2554]

​@IowaNinersFan I have an 2003! Allez with a full 105 group set, I Added carbon wheels and I'm telling you on flat ground it is a rocket! BUT it has crack in the head tube so I brought a Trek Emonda it is carbon with Ultegra group set, it's a very good bike and I like it However it's not as much fun as my Old Allez was. Oh. RAIDER NATION!

[@davidkennedy4845]

Nothing wrong with rim brakes, 6 speed approx, and nice steel frame and downtube shifters. As second hand pickups, these can be a great entry point to cycling. I still race Masters crits on such a bike. Develop the passion before considering laying down big bucks. Beautifully made components from decades ago can still be picked up for very little cash and classic steel bikes built for much less than an entry level bike. PLUS, you will always get compliments on your beautiful classic bike which you won't get on a carbon bike in any price range. Compliments like this also contribute to the passion and desire to ride. Don't get suckered into the price rise merry-go-round.

[@lokerola]

The push to aero everything, disk brakes, and electronic groupsets have killed cycling for a lot of folks.

[@GCPerformance18]

hahaha yes but also I kind of like where bieks are right nwo they look way better and honestly the brakes and shifting just work better too, once it is set there is not adjsuting

[@pulser955]

My take is the gravel bike has replaced the entry and midrange road bike. I also think most of the industry has not figured out that most people don’t care about road racing.

[@connorparadis4804]

Preach! Unfortunately, roads don't get closed for us when we ride like they do for grand tour riders - much more comfortable to find gravel roads with less traffic. Pretty hard to sell a $1,000+ bike that can't even go on the most enjoyable roads/paths to ride. THAT'S the entry level market.

[@whoispurplegoo]

i think you're 100% correct. if i wasn't sure i would enjoy road cycling, i'd opt for the more versatile entry level gravel bike. if i then figure out that i did prefer road cycling, i'd jump in at the mid/high-tier road bike.

[@pulser955]

@@whoispurplegoo Or you go for a mid to high end gravel bike with a few wheel sets. I have been riding for close to 40 years. I spend years working in bike shops when I was in my 20s. I raced mountain and road for years. I have trained with high level armatures and a few pros over the years. And gravel bikes have made me just give up on having a road bike. Gravel bikes are just more versatile. It’s way more fun to just be able to ride any thing I want on one bike.

[@DerAngriff]

@@whoispurplegoo I don't get gravel bikes. Get a hardtail MTB instead. That's versatility. Can ride road, dirt, trails, bike pack and commute. It's a do all. You could even put on drop bars on an MTB.

[@patrickallen4789]

Crappy road conditions in a lot of areas make bikes with larger tire clearance more appealing also. But a lot of the all-round road bikes can take 35-38mm tires now. So they become just as useful in many applications.

[@s1alker564]

Used market is really hot now. For a few hundred quid you can get a superbike that some dentist bought during COVID that is lighter than new models

[@kimwarner6050]

It's simple, someone who wants to start cycling has sticker shock when they see the price of bikes. My first road bike was a Trek 1000 for 700 with pedals in 2006. I just gave the bike to a friend to help jump start their fitness journey.

[@CB-ss9gj]

For me personally, I would like to see manufacturers at the very least offer all color/paint schemes across all price tiers that share the same frame. As a new buyer, before you see the group set or the wheels, or anything else, that is what speaks to you. If you don't see your bike in the garage and think, my bike looks awesome and I want to go for a ride as soon as possible then its that much harder to convince someone. I think a new buyer would be more willing to listen to someone telling them that Tiagra as a great option AND you can get the bike in the exact same color as this other bike you were eye'ing with 105/ultegra. It doesn't have to be a full custom platform like Trek ProjectOne, but at the very least, make the colorway of the bike a non-issue. When starting out, you can feel pretty self conscious riding around town in full lycra ... at the very least you want to do it on a bike that you think looks awesome.

[@statosphereonline2008]

Yes! Newbies can't 'see' a difference between Ultegra and Tiagra and they have no experience using them to be able to comprehend the performance and weight. I remember when I just started cycling- a Sora groupset looked as amazing as SRAM Force. And for most people they will function just as well as each other. If anything, it's better to get a cheap groupset for a few years and get used to learning how to operate it and adjust t correctly without risking damaging it. And as you said, what stands out to most people is the colour. I would choose a Tiagra or Apex equipped bike in my favourite colours that I thought looked amazing over a Dura-Ace or Red equipped bike that I thought was drab, dull, or ugly in its paint scheme. At least, I would have done so if the prices were the same back when It as just starting. Groupset names and levels don't mean anything to you until you learn what it's like to cycle and the functionality of them in the hierarchy. Buying a entry level bike should be about getting something that's easy to use, simple, reliable, cheap to repair and that you like to be seen using and like to use, over world tour competitive differences in weight and shifting!

[@germanhugger41]

Thanks for higlighting this issue. Mainstream entry level and lower mid range bikes from Specialized and Trek are way overpriced and under specified to appeal to yer average newbie and enthusiast cyclist or triathlete nowadays. The $1200- 1400 Specialized Allez aluminium road bike should have a Shimano 105 12 speed mechanical, and a lower mid $ 2200- $ 2500 range Tarmac carbon should have Shimano 105 Di2 or even Ultegra Di2.. Unless the mainstream cycling industry begin to offer value for money, the cycling industry will go into recession. I never thought I would see Claris 8 Speed and Sora 9 speed equiped bikes being sold for $1200. Consumers aren't stupid, we tend spend our hard earned disposable income wisely.

[@bradtowne2305]

I think this is the issue. They are trying to so under-spec the entry level that, really should also be the crit ready CAT4 market as well

[@bradtowne2305]

I think a dedicated “crit” bike with rim brakes and alu frame and mechanical 105 (Shimano screwed that up) would absolutely be a category killer.

[@bradtowne2305]

I also think the “Gravel” bike craze is similar to the 90’s. “MTB” craze where basically anyone wanting to get into biking is deciding to just go gravel (and psssttt….modern Gravel is just what 90’s hard ta MTB was)

[@THECONTROVERSIALCYCLIST]

£1300 for claris and road bikes that weigh almost 12kg. Over priced and over weight... No ones paying for that to only spend another $500 to upgrade.

[@Questioneverything72]

Cycling is not just a sport. It is a lifestyle, it is a culture. For a beginner who has no clue and has not adopted the concept yet, a Walmart bicycle which is much cheaper will just do fine and they rarely feel the need to spend +1k. Unless they have a biker friend who pushes them to. But the risk is after few rides that bicycle is left out in garage or backyard to rust which happens quite often with beginners. Thats why I don’t push them for +1k bikes anymore until they develop the passion and want to upgrade their cheap bikes.

[@robbchastain3036]

Luis Scott, a KZbin presenter not far from you there in Florida, recently presented a meaningful monologue on bike shaming and how it shouldn't be. And I agree, that is so antithetical to what devoted cyclists like us are trying to do and that is to cheer anyone who is riding, just ride well and safely and I cheer it all as I did recently here in town when a few teens were riding long wheelies on their SE bikes on perfect supermarket asphalt on a busy day and they were expertly weaving around cars and customers and having a grand time showing off their skills to the world. And huge props to Specialized on that 12-hundred-dollar bike, it looks great, well done. And I can't see knocking the companies for price hikes of a few hundred dollars and even the Specialized Allez Sprint at three grand is fair given that it is recognized as the best crit bike and a company has to make some money for their good work and that's good work, that bike. And I could say more but for now, just thanks, GC, for doing this vid and explaining the situation. And a bit more about my Specialized project, the 26" smallish compact-steel-frame Rockhopper Ultra which I am building up with modern wheels and components for gravel with a nod to BMX and actual '90s mountain bikes, I have having a lot of fun considering my parts options and that's half the fun of cycling, souping up an old bike or any bike. And I'll be doing it in conjunction with my favorite local bike shop, which I happily support and besides, I'm buying just the parts, not the tools, too. He's got those and like you, GC, i applaud his role as a local cycling luminary with the chops to stand at the center of the local scene and to build up bikes and e-bikes all day every day. 😀.

[@robertwhyte3435]

Well said.

[@lazylonewolf]

Entry-level should be $500. It's madness. Giant and Decathlon for the win.

[@NunoLima1337]

Entry-level won't have Specialized, Giant, Trek, etc. badges. I'm fine with that until someone can show a meaningful difference between the Made in Indonesia bike and the Made in Taiwan bike.

[@lazylonewolf]

​@@NunoLima1337 I might be wrong with when it comes to road bikes since I'm just a hybrid bike rider (Giant Contend 3 is around $1000), but for MTB/hybrid, you can get a Giant Talon 3 or Escape 3 at around $500. $1000 as "entry-level" for most hobbies or sports is just too much for anyone that's not rich and wants to try it a new hobby out without worrying if cycling is going to be for them or not. Sure, they can sell the bike later, but some people don't like the hassle of having to sell it. Which is why in my country (Philippines) with its lower income, a lot of beginner and poor cyclists are using Chinese brands like Trinx, Mountainpeak, Sunpeed,etc. because they can actually afford them (and also cause they're widely available). Then they move on to a "real" brand later if they wish. Or go used, but one will only have the confidence to judge if a used bike is good if they have some riding and repair skills under their belt already... Though if it were me I'd get a Triban RC120 or even RC100 just for the extra assurance.

[@StevenRedlon]

Lots of good bikes out there to buy and ride in the aftermarket. I ride the heck out of my Trek 820 that I bought for 100 bucks on marketplace. I'm a mechanic by trade so I just kept upgrading and servicing the bike until I felt it was where I wanted it. I'm definitely the bicycle rider type, I love the sport for the adventure and fitness of and if Tour DE' France riders trust rim brakes while descending those mountains then I trust them too. Bicycles follow the same rule as cars, you will never sell it for what you bought it for and honestly what would you with a carbon fiber bike after a frame crack and the bike is out of warranty. Aluminum and steel bikes are tanks and the vintage high end ones are beautiful to look at.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea makes sense

[@marcinstyle85]

When I started my adventure with road bikes in 2009 ,my first road bike which i bought was Cube with Tiagra for £750 and to be honest in my head that was already very expensive ...as a new in to road cycling need to spend another £700+ for cycling kits/shoes/pedals/gps/different saddle/ other acc , and now need spend around £2000 for bike plus other stuff .... no wonder people dont buying

[@MannBazza]

I literally, literally could have written this word-for-word

[@HkFinn83]

Those people are all buying e-scooters or e-mtb’s now, at least here in the UK. So cycling loses all of those people who could have fallen in love with the sport and kept getting more and more expensive bikes. In the last twenty years I’ve seen club rides shrink and shrink, despite what we were told about then sport growing. Even cycling in general - the critical mass rides were huge 10-15 years ago. Now they’re either dead or cancelled. There’s simply no way into road cycling now. Nobody is spending that much on an entry level anything, and the used market is good if you know what you’re looking for, but it’s not easy for a beginner to know what’s what. Twenty years ago that’s how a lot of us got into cycling, an entry level road bike for getting around town, then loving it. If it was now and I needed something for local transport, I’d probably get a scooter

[@lawrencefranck9417]

$2k is more bike than a beginner needs and $12k is more than local fast guy needs. With that said bike prices and manufacturers have lost their freaking minds.

[@lunam7249]

my toyota car at auction was $800 in 2019....so ya ....

[@m1mbz]

I;d love to see Shimano tiagra be retained as a Classic 10 speed groupset. I returned to cycling after a very long break between my teenage years and my 30's, when I came back to cycling I bought a Giant Defy with Tiagra for about £700, it had rim brakes and everything was reassuringly familiar, with the added enjoyment of indexed gear shifting, I really enjoyed that bike. But some of the newer tech is really expensive and not very technically friendly to anyone who doesn't have a friendly local bike shop to take care of things, if you don't have that then you're left in the dark with complicated internal cable routing and hydraulic brake hoses with no effort from the bike industry to simplify this or eliminate this nightmare for people who won't be able to deal with it when it fails.

[@dankerber18]

I'm hanging around for another 5 years to pick a high end covid bike with 200 miles on it from markplace for $400

[@lunam7249]

happening now mar 2024, picked up a $2000 carbon bike for $175😳😳

[@coreyallert1482]

My first bike was alloy with Sora, it still works great and I dropped people with bikes 5x the cost. Worry about your strength and not your bike’s price tag

[@GCPerformance18]

yea and alot of those entry level groups work very well as long as adjusted right by the right professional

[@lastfm4477]

LOL. It's true. Due to a spine injury I had to replace my agressively positioned TCR and wound up with a used 2013 Defy with Tiagra 4600 10-speed with fully external shifter cabling. I kept up in my usual group rides on this 10 year old setup with people with the absolute latest S-Works bikes.

[@lastfm4477]

@@GCPerformance18 It doesn't take a professional to setup any Tiagra or Sora groupset. Backyard mechanics can easily to do it. It's the knowledge that's important.

[@dantsai]

You mention the effect of the pandemic - everyone who wanted a bike has purchased one in the past 3 years. Here's my opinion (based on no data, just based on observation) - high-end bikes have a higher "turnover" rate than low-end bikes. People with a 2020 high-end bike are eyeing the latest upgrade - fast wheels, a new SL8, etc... (on my local used bike market, I am amused to see so many 2022 Dura Ace/Red AXS bikes for sale) You don't see this gear-lust with entry level bike owners. The turnover rate is a lot lower, and the bikes stick with their owners for a much longer time. So combined with the pandemic effect, the market for entry level bikes seems virtually non-existent.

[@barryw9473]

Just got a used 2021 Allez Elite (with about 1000 miles on it ) for $700. Trued wheels, adjusted brakes and derailleurs and it is good to go. Love the bike. Very glad it has 105 components and I like the Axis rim brakes.

[@hippiebits2071]

Plenty of people with decades of experince in road bikes recommend the Allez. Pressure from friends for a newbie to make a more sizeable investment isn't about the bike, it's about the friends.

[@davidnicholson6680]

During the Lance years when everyone was looking for a bike, the standard recommendation I used to give people for a first bike was a $1,500 aluminum framed bike with 105 bought from an LBS. Given inflation, that's $2,600 today. $2,600 will absolutely get you a good bike today with current 12sp 105 and maybe even a carbon frame. Nothing has really changed and I don't think bike prices have gone as nuts as people think. It's just people are stuck on pricing from 20 years ago. Also, lots of new cyclists really have no idea how much a quality bike that you plan to ride a lot actually costs. They're thinking of a $299 bike-shaped object from Dick's or whatever. That's also nothing new, people used to be shocked when I told them $1,500 is a good price point to start.

[@gourami7]

That looks expensive for the Lance years. 2010 I got a PX Pro Carbon with 6700 Ultegra for £1000 and there were plenty of bikes cheaper than that. Brexit then the pandemic hiked bile parts theb bike prices

[@keven-matthewlarrivee-font2678]

Cues for road bikes should fix the naming issue of tiagra…

[@nomadcarpenter8549]

Tiagra trek 1200 $830 was plenty

[@cup_and_cone]

​@@gourami7In 2002, I bought a brand new Trek 5200 OCLV in US Postal paint scheme with Ultegra for ~$2500 USD (at GCPerformance's shop). That's $4k in today's money. A 105/aluminum frame bike being $1500 back then was reasonable for the time; that's about what a Giant OCR with 105 costed. The big difference between then and now is that back then every bike was name brand. The most "off brand" you could get would be something like a Motobecane (or a Nashbar/Supergo mail order frame if you built it yourself). Also the Trek I bought then was considered a higher end bike in it's market position. Buying a new bike today in the same market position (OCLV Trek with Ultegra 12) would be twice the cost even after you accounted for inflation ($8k vs $4k). Yes, an argument could be made about bikes today being better and having way more technology, but cycling today is also significantly more popular so why hasn't economies of scale taken effect? Even as production has shifted to the Far East, consumers haven't seen the prices reflect that.

[@Broozer59]

Mmmm... Everyone needs to do some arithmetic when it comes to performance. In my case a 95kg rider on a 10kg alloy bike equals 105kg being pushed up a hill. If I save 2kg with a carbon frame and higher end wheels that's about 1% less weight being pushed up that hill. If you are racing that's important. If not...

[@lincolnjamrog4793]

Online bike sales and gravel. That’s why no one buys these bikes any more at a shop

[@GUTIANMU]

Good stuff much appreciated. Great looking shop. It really shows pride of ownership. Cheers and Happy New Year.

[@GCPerformance18]

Thank you very much happy new year!!!

[@ke0kie]

I’ve owned 50+ bikes, not one brand new. Nice used bikes with mid to premium components are widely avail, now more than ever. The $1500 low tier new bike is worth $600 used day after you bought it.

[@patrickallen4789]

That’s a lot of bikes!!

[@philadams9254]

Man, prices are crazy in the US. When you say 'entry level bike' in the UK, people assume it means £600 tops

[@robertcatuara5118]

Show me a Specialized in the UK for $600. Decathlon is not Specalized.

[@Nate021]

I think they actually do have those brands but Grant isn't one of those stores . I know here you can go to Halfords or decathlon for something super cheap.

[@hippiebits2071]

​@@robertcatuara5118O thank they were suggesting the Allez wouldn't be considered an entry level road bike in the UK due to its price regardless of where it sits in the brands pecking order.

[@CarlisleM6Travelodge]

you can get an entry level Boardman at Halfords for about 500 quid with rim brakes

[@markn4526]

Nice assessment of the current state of the bicycle market. I've worked in some sort of sales and marketing for most of my life and I know that brand names and monikers definitely help to make the sale. It's a difficult sell in any industry selling the features and advantages of higher end (pricier) components to a customer when they're uneducated about the products no matter how good the salesperson is at pointing out the benefits. Bicycles, guitars, cars...it doesn't matter. I've been a serious rider for over 35 years and the prices have really increased over that time period and probably more so than in other industries because cycling is way more popular now. I bought my first good road racing bike in 1987 for $450. It was a Raliegh Competition with a Reynolds 531 frame and Shimano 600 (the precursor to Ultegra). In 1990 you could buy a handmade, chrome moly-framed bike with Campy Chorus for $2500 (which I did). A similarly spec'd carbon fiber-framed bike would cost at least 4x that now. I'm not really sure what my point is, but one thing I know for sure is that when you spend more money on a better bike, you're more apt to enjoy cycling even more just knowing that you're riding a better bike.

[@PRH123]

True, there has always been a minimum for a good road bike, that of course grows with inflation. When I started racing in the late 80's / early 90's that figure was like 1000 dollars (you got a good deal on that Raleigh!). It's probably around the same now adjusting for inflation. The price of a high wheeler (penny farthing) when cycling started in the late 19th century, adjusted for inflation would be like 10-15000 dollars today. Only the rich boys rode them. Some things never change :)

[@markn4526]

@@PRH123 I bought the Raleigh Competition in 1987 but it was a1986 model year. It was and still is a great bike! I use it on my wind trainer to this day. It's pretty rusted-up because I don't really take care of it, but still works great.

[@ESR66]

Your opinion was right on point. I would buy at $2000 2500 for a Carbon bike w/105. At that price range you could upgrade your wheels to a set carbon wheels and be done.

[@chrisbaum998]

We have had one bike store close and they were our Specialized dealer. Trek purchased another store that used to sale several different brands. We are now down to two locally owned bike stores in a city of 300,000 people. The Specialized dealer was poorly managed during the pandemic. Now if I want to look at a Specialized bikes and stuff I have to travel 65 miles.

[@leebert7624]

My local bike shop is shut down , due to lack of stock and online competition, a lot was down to low price entry level bikes , worst thing was , I was the mechanic and salesman 😂

[@mmurmurjohnson2368]

The Allez is a sick easily upgradable future proof rig, that can compete with all 5k plus challengers, and truth be told probably a bit faster and more stable on descents then the carbon SL aero blah blah blahs, you can easily make them super fast for relatively cheap, slap on some deep dish 80s, go a size down, slap on a lighter fork and slam that stem 🔥

[@shaneberry6465]

I have a 2018 Allez, upgraded all components to Ultegra Mech, and rim brakes, carbon 50mm wheels and Zipp carbon cockpit, it's a beast, love it more than my Giant TCR!

[@rangersmith4652]

Last year I bought a direct-to-consumer aluminum road bike with full 3x8 Claris to serve as a wheel-on trainer and sometime "winter" bike. It's not buttery smooth compared to my Ultegra, Dura-Ace, and Potenza setups, but it would be good enough for the road riding I do, which is a mix of quick solo riding and pretty laid-back group riding. I have taken it on a 30-mile, 18mph average group ride and had no problem at all keeping pace or setting pace. Nor did anyone in the group berate me for riding a 3x Claris-equipped bike. The price -- under $900. Such a bike is durable, largely affordable, reasonably comfortable to ride, and easily "fast" enough for most riders. Sure, my higher-end groupsets are better. But considering a full rim brake 11-speed 105 groupset costs ~$560 US all by itself, a whole bike that's competent enough for just $900 seems like a very good deal.

[@geoffwalmsley3066]

you are missing the point,groupsetscare at stupid prices,look at What they consist of for the money,a cycle chain is more expensive than a motorcycle chain, groupsets should be half of what's being charged.

[@rangersmith4652]

@@geoffwalmsley3066 OK, so I missed the point how? I simply related a story of an entry-level bike that is reasonably priced, in my opinion. Of course groupsets are too expensive -- to buy, but not to make. Profit margins are set at buyers threshold of pain, so that's the real price driver.

[@AdamasOldblade]

It is incredible how companies, no matter the product, have a dip in sales and then skyrocket their prices to make up for lost profit only to have less people purchase their product and they still wonder why they can’t sell things. I can BARELY afford my apartment right now. There is no way I am considering dropping thousands of dollars on a bike.

[@lovenottheworld5723]

Realistically, someone who is getting their first road bike is going to have a lot of trouble with the race bike riding position.

[@FinnProp]

This exactly true. Just to test if I like the position I bought a used cyclocross for 250€ that used to be 1300€ new 5 years earlier. The position ain’t for me or at least takes long time to used to. Likely I have 3 other bikes.

[@patrickallen4789]

Spot on! But the marketing and the influencers say that you can’t have as much fun if you’re not running an aero race bike with 38cm bars.

[@davidkennedy4845]

True. From racing BMX decades ago, then periodically getting on my road bike, it felt like I was standing on my head on my road bike given the very different riding positions.

[@PRH123]

Like any sport, you have to build up the fitness and strength. It takes a year or so of riding to strengthen your back, your rear end, and of course your legs, until you can start to ride a road bike with good form. It's not marketing, it's sport. You can't rightly complain about barbells being heavy when you just start out weightlifting right?

[@gabrielfernandeztattoos]

People are buying good bikes second hands in the price of an entry level new bike, and yes, adviced by KZbinrs.

[@TheGizmoGarage]

The entry level market lies in used bike segment. Allez is constantly being sold for less than $700 in like new condition

[@MaceWanted]

Entrylevel carbon roadbikes should cost 1800-2200$/€ and have 2x11 shimano 105 or Sram Rival on them. Like it was in 2019 there is no reason to let them start at 3000 bucks

[@GCPerformance18]

I agree, they should make tiagra 2x11 and make entry carbon bikes for 2000

[@memcore1312]

Giant has a 105 TCR rn for $1800.

[@nuw5396]

I just want a working road bike ideally under $400 for my commute man. I'd take steel/aluminum, I don't care much about groupsets, I don't even care about the high end stuff.

[@SystemParanoia]

Decathlon rc120 rim brake model. Lifetime warranty on the frame too

[@nuw5396]

@@SystemParanoia Never on stock. Rip me

[@SystemParanoia]

@@nuw5396 😭😭

[@PRH123]

Ozark Trail, Mongoose Grit and others, aluminum low-end gravel bikes that are actually very good. From Walmart. There's a great u tube channel called Kev Central where he reviews less expensive bikes. It's not like in the past where bikes in this range were crap, in the last couple of years they have really progressed and are now fairly decent and useful inexpensive bikes.

[@PRH123]

​@@SystemParanoia got that one for my son, very nice for the price

[@eto2352]

No style frames with dead end groupsets is a bad combo. Agree that Shimano needs to update the lower tier groupsets. It makes no sense that a entry level consumer dead ends with Tiagra. 105 is future proof. They can upgrade or buy Ultegra or DA parts off their cycling friends. Tiagra owners are dead ended. Better to spend a big chunk upfront on 105. Tiagra should be 11 speed at least. All the 11 speed stuff should have trickled down to Tiagra and Sora. Claris should be Tiagra 10 or Sora 9 by now. Also agree the Tiagra alloy road bikes look like crap. Specialized was doing aero shaped alloy road a long time ago. Why not something with some style now? Nothing trickled down with alloy framesets.

[@sbccbc7471]

In the last paragraph, it sounds like you're talking about the first-generation Allez Sprint.

[@jamiehiggins1462]

My nephew who is in his 30s asked me about a buying a bike. He bought a tri bike to do a triathlon and vowed he wouldn't do another one. He did like the cycling part. I encouraged him to buy a lower end gravel bike (vs a pure road bike)...that way he can get two bikes for the price of one. He was basically looking at getting about the cheapest bike he could get. He has been looking at the various local bike shops in his area (which I encouraged him to do). I go to three different bike shops for various bikes and services. One only sells entry level bikes and appears to be doing okay, another one pretty much has no inventory and concentrates on bike repair and the other one appears to cater more to the mid to higher end bikes. Another is that ebikes seems to be really popular as well.

[@IowaNinersFan]

Wish I discovered the gravel bike when I first got into cycling then I wouldn't need a bike for every style of riding although I do like a nice road bike but don't want to break the bank for one.

[@kings9634]

Great video, the problem I have ,is that the bikes at this price point are not growing participation to casual riders. Like you say, even back in the 2009 customer used to come in and say my friend this and my friend that. The difference was I always had an Allez at 500-650 which was an easy commuter bike to sell that they could go for a club ride and the following year they would come for an upgrade. Gone are those days makes me sad 😔

[@NYCMTB-SITR]

I'm a pandemic cyclist. Wanted to get into riding for health and fitness. Picked up his and hers Giant comfort cycles and quickly realized we were underbiked at some of the events we joined . But after spending $1800 during the pandemic it was hard to look at $2000 bikes . We decided to go with Poseidon, direct to consumer. Spending just as much on upgrades as on the bike we realized we had become addicted to. Now 3 bikes each in the garage I'm looking for another road bike and I will be looking for mid to top tier . My point is , the last 4 years has been a whirlwind of purchases for many . I think the reason you're seeing a shift in customer base is due to situations like mine . Many people spent the cheap dollars already and are now ready to get the good stuff . One more thing to mention. During the pandemic many people were pulling out of savings. 401k , Roth accounts . 2021 being the last year. The penalties and taxes were allowed to be spread over 3 years . Many just didn't have that nice refund around April due to the fee associated with pandemic relief funds . Anyway . Thank you for the video , it was interesting to watch , entertaining .

[@boodgiek8146]

I stopped by a bike shop,they had trek mountain bikes around 500 to 750 dollars,why by some carbon frame bling bike,made by some johnny come lately for 2000 and up.i rode a trek in the 1980s,their all i need.

[@difflocktwo]

At these price ranges, you can get an ebike that will do much more than these bikes can do.

[@PRH123]

Apples and oranges, two completely different things. That's like saying you could just buy a used car and go faster than a bike or an ebike. The point is being in shape, doing sports, not just getting from point a to point b.

[@difflocktwo]

@@PRH123 A used car costs much much more than a bike, even if it is faster. The primary point is getting from A to B. For sports, you would want the most drag possible. For being in shape, it is purely a calorie thing.

[@PRH123]

@@difflocktwo well, good luck convincing the world’s cyclists that what they need is more drag, pretty sure they won’t agree with you

[@difflocktwo]

@@PRH123 resistance training is well documented. To get stronger you must increase resistance.

[@PRH123]

@@difflocktwo that has nothing to do with competitive cycling, which is not weightlifting Anyway you just want to get an e-bike and let the battery do the work, right?

[@germanbeer2466]

I can’t afford these multi-thousand dollar bikes anymore.

[@G0LFII]

Pretty sure the Shimano CUES will become the people's group set. I'm excited to see how that will change the entry level market as well as how we (shops) can stock spare parts with all the interchangeability

[@cup_and_cone]

CUES has not announced any drop bar shifters, have they?

[@fml1579]

Road cycling is a niche hobby now. Also , entry level folks seem to gravitate toward gravel bikes.

[@Mas421]

Why should people want to ride an entry level bike when all advertising and marketing tells them that they have to ride high end material? Your bike must cost at least 4000€ so that you can be part of the game.

[@sbccbc7471]

I've been in the sport for 10+ years and I'm still on aluminium and in recent years, it's by choice.

[@coryricci301]

While people are googling (myself included) they come across different groupsets and pricing. When you say the allez is on par with canyon - the canyon al6 comes with tiagra and hydraulic brakes. Then you have polygon s5 that’s always on sale for $1k with a 105. When just starting out , these will be much more appealing then specialized. That said, the internet and the over use of “entry level” are making it hard for people. It makes it feel like a $1k bike is a waste of money because the the $1.5k bike is much better. Then when looking at that $1.5k bike all you can read is how the the $2k bike should be the lowest level you should buy. So much time spent researching so little time spent buying and riding.

[@yamint]

Polygon offers better value for the money 😀

[@DanTuber]

Alu frame with alu wheels and a junky groupset equals one heavy bike.It's just not value for money when you can get something 2nd hand and better.

[@morganconey4814]

11 speed rim brake "super bikes" are at give away prices so hard to go past

[@simon7790]

50 year old, a little out of shape, would like to get back on the saddle and do some miles, both on the local cycle path in summer (which is a decent rural one on an old train line) and also hooked up to an indoor Zwift trainer now in winter (too much snow to peddle out). Used to cycle in teens and 20's. Just needs something basic that allows me to get some miles in and some fitness back, maybe help me shed 14lbs / 7kg of weight over a few months. I'm low income, in a fairly poor country, with a very limited used bike market. Been around the local bike shops, looked online, and my God, the prices are just nuts. Even some of the low end models are 2k+. I really was expecting to walk out with something that put a smile on my face for a few hundred, maybe 500-600 tops if it had some nice stuff on it. I know now how naive that is. But I just don't have the cash to be laying out the kind of money they want, and even if I did I'd be unhappy at being fleeced. Entry level bikes really shouldn't be that much. If there's no easy on ramp for the sport, it's going to suffer.

[@lunam7249]

walmart or allie-express aluminum + rim brakes $250 new!!

[@jasonhurdlow6607]

Claris for $1000 and Tiagra for $2700 is absolutely insane! You used to get 105 for around a grand, and Ultegra for under 2K. Honestly, the bikes from 10 years ago were more desirable than what you can get today. Everything has gone backwards! And entry level bikes dont need disc brakes.

[@bradtowne2305]

The $1,200 105 road bike uses to be a thing. When you now have 12 speed group sets, the minute they see an 8 speed it it is an issue. It used to be that the 105 was 9’speed and top end was 10. Now you have a 4 gear gap

[@jochenkraus7016]

The 8x is Claris so it's also three steps up to a 105 (Claris, Sora, Tiagra, 105) while the 105 was released as electric only at first. I remember when the usual 1000€ road bike was a thing with alloy frame, carbon fork (often with alloy steerer), 10x 105, rim brake and R500 wheels or similar.

[@davidkennedy4845]

It is sad when potential beginner riders fall for the trap of more is better. On almost every group ride, I might change gears once so I have never found that I have too few gear choices. Just get riding first and develop some fitness before worrying too much about the bike. The more complex the bikes become, the more un-neccesarily complex riding becomes and it doesn't have to be that way.The simplicity of riding has always been the major appealing factor to me.

[@nicholascowen]

My view on this as someone who got into cycling during Covid is. If you’re looking at almost £2000 (UK) for an entry level alloy bike. You may as well spend another 1000 and get a carbon frame. The cheaper groupsets as a novice and not knowing much really put you off the lower price bikes because you don’t know if it’s worth the money or not. So I personally ended up spending more to feel comfortable I was getting a quality product.

[@daytch9485]

It's hard to say. If they're cable pull disc and low level drivetrain, would most prefer quality rim brakes and a better drivetrain?

[@lunam7249]

a serious biker says ya....newbee?

[@ScottCarlson-cz7wj]

My first road bike, as a part time pizza cook in 1978, was a Mariushi Roadace 202, $170. $812 in 2024 money.

[@caseypleasant1922]

For some reason...ppl will pay more simply because they think it's better. And if something is better, it won't be better solely because it costs more. Biking has always been perceived as a rich persons sport... but it has gotten so much worse....to tell someone that "entry level" which is almost looked at as a bad thing is $1200 is just ridiculous.

[@vwandtiny3769]

I bought my first Specialized Allez in 2008 for 900$. I had never ridden a road bike as an adult prior to this, I was 45 at that time. I clearly remember being stunned that the cost of buying the road biking was small compared to the additional expense of helmet, shoes, pedals, cleats, computer, lycra, etc. I feel road biking in the USA has become a purely elitist activity. I refuse to ride with clubs. Presently I live in the Philippines. One can still buy a cheap Chinese road bike with plenty of knock off components for under 400$. I ride a Sunspeed Triton now. I focus on quality tires. There are lots of Filipinos who just enjoy the ride.

[@sccxvelo]

My logic with new bikes is frame first as wheels, drivetrain, contact points, etc are parts there wear out but the frame stays. Entry level bike are tough due the need to put quality long lasting parts on it but still keep in budget.

[@diehardbikes]

I am the guy who works 2 jobs. And on the side I work in the bike industry. Once the industry becomes stable, I plan on committing to it. Build up my customer base in the meantime. My point is that I have multiple bikes. 4 Trek Boones, 1 Specialized Ruby, 1 Specialized Dolce, 1 Fuji SLM carbon(custom XX1), a Wilier Triestina Cento 1 Cross, and a Trek Procaliber. I plan on buying a Supercaliber or a Top Fuel next. I have these bikes because I love bikes. I am in love with this sport, I love getting people happy with bikes, and I love everything about bikes. I am the guy who, financially, would be buying the under 1k bikes. However, my least expensive bike, with the exception of the 2014 Dolce, is my Procaliber at over 4k. The most expensive being my main bike, one of my Trek Boones, at over 12k. I truly love bikes. And my love for bikes will likely never end. I also ride thousands of miles every year. Any time you would drive in a car, I would ride. Unless it's over 50 miles at once. Then, I likely would drive. There's a limit to how far I can go on my own. So remember: if you love riding, go for the most expensive thing you can afford, and especially afford to repair.

[@jigglypuff4227]

you are right, prices are insane for the people who want to get started.....

[@ditto1958]

They were the bees knees back in the 70’s when I was in high school. They were the best rides, light years ahead of the bikes we rode as kids in the 60’s. But marketing killed them. The bicycle companies got everyone thinking they needed a mountain bike. Americans love stuff that looks rugged and individualistic. No matter that it would never see a trail, much less a mountain, and would be inferior to a road bike in every possible way on the city streets the buyers would ride them on. That was the start of the death of entry level road bikes.

[@ditto1958]

And now they’re selling everyone “gravel bikes” That are not gonna be ridden on gravel Why? Most people in the US ride on paved roads Why aren’t the majority of bikes sold “road” bikes?

[@fwa3atl]

GC you make some of the best videos - let me start there. Knowledge is the key to getting a good entry level bike. I started out on a LeMond "Reno" back in 1998. Got rear-ended with it on the back of my car and went out (with the insurance money) and purchased my first carbon Fuji Gran Fondo. That bike gave me the best road bike experience. The LeMond had "ole School" Tiagra and the Gran Fondo had the 2nd gen 105. I think a remedy (if you haven't already done a video) is to explain the 7 levels of Shimano components - Claris on up to Dura - Ace. Share with the Entry Level customer that Shimano has "excellently" incorporated the "trickle down" phenomenon with their Groupsets over the years. Also explain how Specialized, Trek and other top brands cut costs on cranks and wheels to make even the $2k bikes more financially affordable. You should conclude with a scenario of how other items pre-COVID were much lower and the cycling industry is no execption. Again, you produce great KZbin videos.

[@martimguarda1760]

the 1.5k canyon bike comes with 105 tho.

[@andreluissilva869]

There are several searchs that show we have 40% of the population that don't know how to ride a bike. If you want to sell entry good you need new people coming to the sport

[@craven4adventure]

Its easier to find deals on used bikes from people upgrading. A lot of guys sold their old bikes once the new ones hit. Almost every guy I know sold his SL7 and got an SL8. This is why some companies are buying used bikes from the consumer to sell them back.

[@kleptobizmo4806]

I've been into biikes most of my life , I have never spent more than 400 dollars for any of them and I was able to do everything that the bling bikes could do.

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

Many entry level folks are looking at a "well used" mechanically sound bike. But they are spending 1K USD for such a bike. They are actually looking at spending between 300 and 500 USD. They don't care about groupsets and the rest of the technical mumbo-jumbo. They want a bike that will get them around. There's also a second category, and they are looking, solidly, at e-bikes. They are looking at a method of transportation that is better than an auto but doesn't leave them all sweaty when they finish. They are willing to part with one to two thousand for a class 2 e-bike and are doing so in record numbers.

[@difflocktwo]

People got smart. Unless you are racing, you do not need a race bike. Racing is only for the rich.

[@CANNABISfreedomNOtaxes]

"The rich" I should have known you're a Democrat.

[@memcore1312]

@@CANNABISfreedomNOtaxesyou’re mentally ill

[@johndef5075]

Tourney at $1200 is laughable. Seriously wtf.

[@GCPerformance18]

Yea that was rough. That is a crazy price point bike

[@madyogi6164]

Tiagra is (in terms of performance and price) a great group-set. I had 9s 4500 series in 2010 and it was perfect! I say was, because back then I could fit Ultegra 6500 series, if I wanted to. Poeple hated it in ~2014, when Shimano released 10s version, relaying on 10s-hub-based wheels. But the trick was the hubs were 11s incompatible. So no, people couldn't upgrade to 105 and above, without replacing entire grupset AND wheels in one go. Conclusion? Go and start with "105" as the 1st bike. If they offer you Tiagra, walk away... That story drags till today.

[@lastfm4477]

You *can* put an 11-speed cassette on a "10-speed" hub - as long as you don't mind 11-34T or larger. For where I live, that's a reasonable setup. So much so that you can even buy a Dura-Ace 9200 11-34T cassette now.

[@madyogi6164]

@@lastfm4477 Then try it with Ultegra WH-6700 wheelset f.ex. it had rear hub 9-10 s compatible. Good luck in advance, in squeezing 11s on it! A f*load of wheels got listed as "obsolete" back in time.

[@DerAngriff]

Manu's need to drop this 10sp nonsense. Florida's terrain is not representative of the US or other parts of the world. Is there price point wiggle room on wheels? That's what people tend to upgrade anyway if they've settled into cycling. I looked at a 10sp Tarmac and I'd knew, I'd want to upgrade the whole group. That's not cheap even with deals. A good frameset and group will last years.

[@CFCMahomet]

The secondary market is now the entry level market. The problem is that this pathway doesn’t have the buyer build a relationship with the LBS until there is an issue.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea this is true

[@dragonflygenetics420]

Big box stores are starting to offer frames with cheap components to be upgradable under 500 Bucks.

[@GCPerformance18]

yea I am seeing big box stores getting more and more competitve

[@gb4408]

Editor can you make the price of carbon bikes relative to the level of engineering present in them. Re; look at a YZF450 engine or frame before you answer!