The Best and Most 'Stealable' Mechanics from Tabletop RPGs

[@SirMorganD]

Im gonna use this as my notebook: - Flashbacks, using a system of "Stress" to meassure how much they can do it and how it affects them. (Checking Blades in the Dark) - Clocks. - Beliefs and Instincts. Points that the DM can use without the player declaring it. This one sounds cool af. - Vice Stat. An stat that is better and grows the more you use it, but it causes on-rol consecuences. Cool af too. - Nature. Bonuses by the nature of the character, and it must be balance betweeen the esscence of the character. If you act according to nature, you get a bonus, and against it too, but with the possibility of failing the roll and loosing nature. You can tap that number as a raw bonus. - Those game where you use a Jenga. Basically, mechanics that build tension over time until the boot hits the vent. - Games with dice alocation. - One page systems. Great and simple and cool. - OSR, Pick up and play. KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid. - Story Logic as Mechanics. Using dice and a tracker and thats it. Check Out Powered By the Apocalipse. - Mind Map to desing quests? - Learn and Steal from the best. Thank you very much Evan Hill!

[@ikhsanjoelyandasihombing1808]

Thanks for noting all of them

[@QuestingBeast]

Awesome to see my Knave and Maze Rats games on here! Thanks Evan! I've never heard of Willowby Hall referred to as a "Lasagna of Problems" but now I'm going to start calling it that.

[@BankaiEdje]

thanks for all your work, it was actually your channel that inspired the talk! Also looking forward to getting my copy of Knave 2e!

[@SkittleBombs]

Wow awesome they knew about knave and maze rats for this

[@schm00b0]

It is shameful that popular YT creators (even though they deserve it) get more attention than people who have created a truly revolutionary game like Blades in the Dark. No shade on QuestingBeast, he's great! But Blades in the Dark by John Harper is revolutionary! BitD is a thing that will be remembered in decades to come!

[@Batterydennis]

@@schm00b0I get that you like blades in the dark, but to reduce the creator of Knave to a "YT creator" shows that you have a glaring blindspot. I recommend you work on that.

[@mewwww17]

​@@schm00b0 Blades in the Dark is literally in the talk lol

[@BoredToBoard]

I’m sure I missed something or made a mistake, so please correct or add in the comments but hope this helps with searches and purchases as I thought I’d rewatch and come up with a list: TTRPG: Numenera & Cypher System (Monte Cook) Blades in the Dark Darkest Dungeon (board game currently on KS) Burning Wheel & Mouse Guard Dread & Star Crossed One Page RPGs: Honey Heist Sexy Battle Wizards Everyone Is John OSR: Knave 2 Waking of Willowby Hall Maze Rats Into The Odd Electric Bastionland Bonus stuff: Pathologic 2 Gnosia (novel and a video game) Apocalypse World (PbtA): Dungeon World Monsterhearts 2 City of Mist (modified) Disco Elysium (modified) Video Game RPG: Outer Worlds 2 The Last of Us II Torment Tides of Numenera Plane scape Torment Solar Ash Palia Darkest Dungeon Pathologic 2 Fall Out (image) Metal Gear Solid Mass Effect Disco Elysium Roll & Write Genre’s Citizen Sleeper Tharsis Dicey Dungeons Rogue System Shock Hitman

[@samuelbroad11]

thank you so much for this list, this video was amazeballs.

[@ElektronikArzt]

You put Apocalypse World "Video Game RPG", it is a TTRPG, a mechanical predecessor of many TTRPGs such as Dungeon World, Monsterhearts and City of Mist.

[@BoredToBoard]

@@ElektronikArzt good spot and updated!

[@philershadi6037]

+1 for Gnosia

[@Solanaar]

A cool game that came to mind when I saw the jenga tower is Icarus. It's a world building game about a city and its inevitable fall. The mechanic that I love is that the dice you roll and that represent decisions, resources, peopple and more, get stacked on top of each other in the middle of the desk. As the consequences of the player's actions pile on the dice tower becomes more and more unstable until at one point it will fall. When it happens nobody knows. But everybody gets more and more tense, more and more careful to not shake the table. And the fall, as is often the case, comes sudden and unexpected. I think that is a great mechanic that adds not only to tension but also to replay value as you're always left wondering "what if I could've stacked one more dice, one more event?" Maybe that's something videogames can implement too?

[@sub-jec-tiv]

Ugh so cool. GDC is doing so much for independent game creators. (Let’s be honest, only indies are going to implement all the cool ideas on display at GDC… AAA still gonna chase the tail of the biggest games from 10 years ago.)

[@OblivionOdditiesProjectStudios]

Check out Oblivion Oddities Project Studios game. They are literally implementing all of these Ideas into one game called Oblivion Oddities & plan on making it a template standard for video games to use.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

Sort of funny because Ubisoft just released/made a Metroidvania. Only years after the genre proved itself on the indie scene.

[@kcsnipes]

Ugh 😩

[@keremmadran]

Citizen Sleeper is an awesome video game that yoinks clocks from Blades in the Dark awesomely

[@bjhale]

It's awesome to hear someone else advocate for BitD style flashbacks in Assassin's Creed. Hope someone from Ubisoft is listening. The best part is they can justify it as a new and improved animus feature, which lets the user jump to an earlier "glossed over" memory in the middle of synchronizing a different memory.

[@BaseballFiend42]

I don't play AC, but that sounds cool af

[@alasanof]

It's cool how many diverse RPGs there are. I've played Masks before and it's another powered by the apocalypse game. The hardest thing about ttrpgs is getting people out of the headspace of optimizing character builds and into focus of making a fun and interesting story.

[@zestfullgamer]

Players don't play TTRPGs to make stories, they do it to impose their character onto our worlds and leave their mark, if a story comes out of that; thats great, they don't feel strongly either way. Its GMs that want to tell stories, which is why they have 90% of the power in their game, while also being the minority in the group.

[@tahunuva4254]

The best RPGs allow both. Ludonarrative and all that

[@blast_processing6577]

The *best* game mechanic worth "stealing" is from a kid's tabletop RPG, _Magical_ _Kitties_ _Save_ _the_ _Day:_ During the character creation stage players read through a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure-style story, where their choices determine both their character's initial stats and backstory.

[@ghostofwarfare9247]

Fallout 3 intro is the only game I can think of that is close to that concept. Definitely would like to see more games with that mechanic

[@Kanakaberaka1]

@@ghostofwarfare9247 Mount and Blade has been doing this for awhile to, great game

[@omous7770]

I think I’ve seen that in Fear & Hunger as well

[@StefanLopuszanski]

Nice. I pitched a similar talk but around more obscure and experimental genres like ARGs, living games, unique games, legacy games, hybrid games, mega games, and more. Sadly, they said the talk was too tabletop focused and the tabletop summit said it wasn't focused enough on tabletop. Oh well! Maybe will repitch it with more focus in the future. Still would love to run a roundtable discussion on these topics at GDC since there's a lot of awesome potential there to learn from others.

[@constantinogellona710]

Im intersted about that topic! Any text or fount i can research?

[@StefanLopuszanski]

@@constantinogellona710 : Which one specifically? Nothing I can think of deals with them all. But lots of papers and articles covering them individually.

[@AdlerMow]

Where is this talk on, I want to watch it!

[@StefanLopuszanski]

@@AdlerMow : It doesn't exist because it wasn't accepted. I did some outline work and got some panelists lined up like Justin Gary and Brett from BrainGoodGames and some others but oh well. Maybe in the future I'll pitch it again. I have done some talks on the topic casually in some "un-conference" relaxed chats around GDC in SF though. Might do it again this year if you're attending.

[@AdlerMow]

@@StefanLopuszanski I subscribed to your channel! If you do a video on the content of that talk, I will surely watch it!

[@revimfadli4666]

Will there be another talk about stealable mechanics from boardgames? I'd like to see more than just deckbuilding, tile-laying, and casino games(blackjack, poker etc)

[@kcsnipes]

Make this video 😮 u can do it

[@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842]

I also find it interesting that these "stolen" ideas can be embedded very deeply into the gameplay and narrative, as core design principles or pacing mechanics or you name it. And they can be implemented on a very much a surface level, as a visible UI and reference to its predecessors, moment to moment resolution mechanics. My friend runs and co-runs LARPs from time to time and every time he asked me for advice I couldn't help myself, but steal from card-based video games. "You need magical abilities, that are invocative of Fae and Pride and Prejudice? Why don't you write some cards and give them to your players?" "Portents and visions? Why not give them the sealed letters with precise time?" "Predestination? Just reward them for being at the right time at the right place and say certain things." Players still largely get freedom, but they would feel larger forces at play and they could be empowered by deciding and where and when the powerful curses can be uttered. So it is very enjoyable to see the video game design do the opposite.

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Not sure why the initial hate for the Cypher system-I’ve recently gotten into cypher and it seems very rules-light and intuitive from what I’m reading.

[@TheShiumy]

I've just started to play citizen sleeper, and they totally borrow this clock idea for everything !

[@peterfugleberg7915]

Fooork me - Just give this brilliant guy 2-3 hours to elaborate ❤️ Such a shame to rush through it 😱

[@Giantstomp]

You should look at Pendragon for its passions and traits. While the Powered by the Apocalypses game is good, in some cases, any system that has degrees of success as a mandatory puts a lot of strain on the Game Master. Some can handle it, but many can not. Same thing with player-facing things. While that is great for those who can handle being forced into the driver's seat, my experience is that it is not your average gamer. Most gamers need simple, and in situations where you need degrees for something, having those degrees already available avoids annalizes paralysis.

[@ZedAmadeus]

Great talk! I've been wondering about this exact thing. Some of my favourite games ever have been very directly inspired by tabletop RPGs, or at least the sort of... design sensibilities of TTRPGs (Disco Elysium, Sunless Sea, Citizen Sleeper) and although I haven't had the opportunity to play any with a group, I got like 200 of them in an itch bundle ages ago and have loved reading them, they're very creatively inspiring. I don't think people really get what he means by "stealing." good artists steal all the time. Nothing just... appears fully formed in a vacuum. it's often a good artist's job to figure out how to intelligently combine different ideas from other places together with this... little _spark,_ to create an _alchemy,_ something that has truly never existed in this way before, but is still grounded in like... _something._ Standing on the shoulders of giants, as he said. The way TTRPGs are designed, the way they incorporate tension/drama and storytelling so elegantly into such simple elements makes them perfect for studying when thinking about designing videogames. I mean, as well as actual videogames also. Also board-games!

[@sub-jec-tiv]

You absolutely nailed it about ‘stealing’ which is alchemy with your own spark. People often misunderstand and think ‘stealing’ means being totally unoriginal. That’s one way to go but if Hollywood since 1990 has taught us anything, we should learn how hit or miss that is. Alchemy is the way to go.

[@oopsie3415]

I'm in the middle of the video. He's making many points but does he actually come back to them and close these points? The times he mentions "how we gonna implement that" opens so many threads

[@foseydontanri7859]

"Pathologic" is not just a tabletop game, there is a video game version as well. It is quiet creepy.

[@FlawyClips]

It is also quiet amazing!

[@barterjke]

You really should've called it "How to tell that you love Disco in 1 million different ways as GDC talk" But really it's a great talk. I found even more examples of what you've talked about. Like inspiration points from BG3 is very much inspiration points, and souls uses XP system that is both stats and resources.

[@MemphiStig]

Great talk. Whether it's ttrpg's or videogames, or even boardgames, I'm always fascinated with game mechanics of all sorts and how they do and can intermingle.

[@FlameForgedSoul]

Station Blue...like the podcast? We are intrigued.

[@ichifish]

Another thing to steal from Blades (which some games do), is the mixed success and pushing your luck.

[@drewwilson8756]

Beliefs and instincts is very interesting. I kinda had a thought like this but immediately discarded it.

[@yukikosan5468]

Thanks a lot! I really think that video games would benefit from looking at ttrpg more, and getting away from d&d as a reference for everything! Because there really are some wonderful mechanics

[@tubebobwil]

I'm glad this video exists, but I think the presenter needed to sloooooow down and give more depth to each example, or, present far fewer examples. Inget the impression they do not have a great sense of what they know thay what others do not. Also the loud key clicks are distracting.

[@xKumei]

I think the method I like most from tabletops are the ones that are good for people who AREN'T good at improve by providing both the prompts and answers to them - like apples to apples or cards against humanity.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Wow. This video is so weird. I expected it to talk about the common mechanics that transferred over to video games. There are things like classes, races, attributes and all that jazz. This video talked about obscure things that are far stranger and more unique. No single example got me that interested specifically. However I love how this video thinks way outside the box. It is so refreshing. I am thinking about tabletop games I like with stealable mechanics. The main example that comes to my mind is the card game Magic the Gathering. I am a huge fan of this game. It is possible to play a digital version of it. However I am thinking of stealable mechanics. There are a lot of wonderful things about Magic the Gathering. I think the super special and enjoyable mechanics boil down to resource management. That is the stuff I end up "stealing". This is actually my favorite take on magical resources. Magic the Gathering has five different colors of mana. It is brilliant for making a lot of variety. A deck of cards is determined by the color combo. I am used to video games, like World of Warcraft, having a mana bar that depletes over the course of a battle. The video talked about stress and a secondary health bar. Mana is kind of like that except that it is depleted by casting spells. Also there is no immediate penalty for getting low on mana. It's only an issue when mana runs completely out, and then the character can't cast spells at all any more. I did have a spin. There are still mana bars that deplete through mana use. However I use four types of mana, and they are color coded. So I use the color variation mechanic that Magic the Gathering has. My classes don't have specific spell lists. Instead they are mainly defined by using one or two colors of mana. Then that determines what spells they get to use. Each spell has a certain cost. Some of the cost needs a specific color of mana, and some can be paid by any mana. This system is far more freeing and that leads to a lot more variety. That is fun. Cards themselves are a resources. They determine what actions a player can do. Everything in Magic the Gathering is represented by cards. I just use cards for spells, and other materials to represent other things. I do like having cards to represent spells. There are things like deck, hand and discard piles. I think of it as adding Vancian flavor to the magic system, but it isn't as clunky as the spell slots of Dungeons and Dragons. Magic the Gathering has fun spell effects to mess with resources. One can create extra mana or destroy the opponents mana. They can draw extra cards. They can deplete the opponent's card through discard and mill effects. One can even take cards from their discard pile and reuse them. There are a bunch of shenanigans involved with using, managing and messing with resources. I would like to take these ideas and use them for different game. It can really liven up an RPG with these systems.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Oh. I am just getting new ideas. This video is really thought provoking. One board game I like is Catan. The mechanics make it really fun. It is about gathering materials in an environment and building a settlement. I did think of jazzing it up. I have played around with the idea of magicians building a set of leyline and getting magical power from it. Now I realize that the mechanics could probably go into an RPG somehow. Perhaps this gains special material for using magic in regular combat or something. Oh shoot! Catan has resource management, doesn't it? Well I think I am starting to see a pattern here. Magic the Gathering has fun resource management too. Maybe there is something about logistics that I like for some reason. The video shows a group of videos game characters together. I like Link and Pikachu. I am a fan of their respective franchises. The kind of Link shown is the one in Breath of the Wild. That is another example of fun resource management. I enjoy farming material in that game. The grind is a lot more fun than it sounds. I have just realized something. Magic the Gathering does have creatures as a stealable mechanics. I thought this was a lame and inferior mechanic compared to other uses of creatures. The power and toughness is too oversimplified. I would rather creatures have their own health pools and their own attack. I think of battle represented as miniatures on a checkerboard. The player usually gets one form to be on the board. In dungeons, they can summon up to four forms. So one has a party mechanic, but through summoning instead of joining up with other people. I did get the idea of each form getting access to one or more pets or minions as supplements. This used a special magical resources that are only obtained by finding animals in the wilderness and getting in tune with them. Then these resources can be used to summon pets. It is like the hunter or ranger in an RPG gets a pet. It is like how the warlock gets minions. I have the idea that a pet can have its own health pool and it's own melee attack by default. Pets can vary from weak to strong. The strong ones take more magical resources. Then I realize that Magic the Gathering has a lot of fun shenanigans with creatures. A lot of that can be stolen without using the basic power and toughness. The shenanigans can be applied to creatures with health and melee attacks. A player can use up to set amount of resources for summoning each turn. So they can go big by summoning one strong creature or go wide by summoning a lot of weak creatures. That is an important distinction. Both ways are valid and impressive. Each creature can move one square and make one combat action per turn. Every creature can use their action to use their melee attack on the opponent or block the opponent's melee attack. A blocking creature has their health pool depleted instead of the health pool of the player character. After a combat action, the creature sits down in order to rest. They stand back up at the start of their turn. A creature can only use a combat action when standing up. Extra resources can be used to give the creature special abilities. Then that is where my imagination runs wild. Common creature abilities in Magic the Gathering are pretty interesting, then they have the potential for some fun tactics shenanigans on a board. I can picture it. If a creature gets the vigilance ability, they can both attack and block in one turn. If they have flying, they can hit an opponent that is far away. They return to their original spot. If they have haste, they can use their actions the first turn they are summoned. There can be spells cast by the creatures. Afterward they sit down. There can be basic spells that do damage and healing. The creatures can even be mana dorks. They have spells to replenish the player character's mana pool. There can be a lot more ideas. I just gave examples. That can be worth building on.

[@misomiso8228]

22:10 love the OSR

[@juliemuncy1764]

SHOUTS TO THE MIND MAP FROM PATHOLOGIC 2, ALL MY HOMIES LOVE THE MIND MAP FROM PATHOLOGIC 2

[@ThomasAndersonPhD]

This is a fine and good whirlwind tour of TTRPGs... but this is not really a summary of great mechanics to take from TTRPGs. For example, "one-page RPGs" isn't a mechanic. You can't really just take that idea, as-is, and put that into a video-game. Alternatively, that has already been trivially done in game-jams where there are really short games. While the summary is neat and does hit on genuinely useful-to-hear-about games like BitD and Burning Wheel, I would have liked to see more ideas and examples of how to use the mechanic. For example, BitD's "Clocks" are a mechanic for counting, which is great, but counting has existed since before TTRPGs and video-games already use "Clocks" in the sense that progress is counted. Burning Wheel's "Nature" is neat... but what application do you think could be translated to a video-game? Again, great tour of TTRPGs for those that don't know about these games, but not really what the title suggests.

[@tremulo5568]

Amazing!!!!

[@3erglinG]

BTW Alphyna of the Pathologic fame also worked (and led, if I'm not mistaken) on translating Disco Elysium to Russian

[@wailfulcrab]

First Fallout was supposed to be based on Gurps system but was denied the licence "because it was too violent" so they made a derivative SPECIAL. First 2 Elder Scrolls games also take some aspects of that point buy system with ability to take advantages and disadvantages at the cost of slower exp gain.

[@FlawyClips]

7:07 PATHOLOGIC MENTIONED!!!! ❤❤

[@AvantNovis]

Thank you!

[@DuBstepAnDa98]

wish he was able to talk more. this was a cool listen

[@zacharylindahl]

Well damn, have been thinking of getting into mousegard for quite some time now that I know it's based around burning wheel I'm definitely going to pick it up

[@svquinteromusic]

I loved this talk last year!!

[@danacoleman4007]

How about now?

[@daisukeyamamoto3705]

A whole lot of words to say next to nothing. This is the first GDC talk I've ever listened to and felt baffled. I had to ask myself several times, what is this man saying?

[@psychohistorian4431]

insightful

[@WrecklessFantasist]

22:33 Oh god that’s prick lmao. Damn Zee Bashew is awesome

[@TwoKnowingRavens]

Having designed and helped to design some game mechanics mostly for live action rpgs/events I will say there really is no such thing as "theft" in game design. Game design is about ease of use and adaptability. You can have the coolest ideas and rules for your game, but if they dont move smoothly and feel natural its never a good game. Creative writing a good combination of hooks, callbacks and customization and good editing is what makes most games great.

[@Sketching4Sanity]

LOVE ✊🏿

[@PerfectPencil]

well shit. I developed a stress mechanic for my game based on Darkest Dungeon, but made key changes.....that ended up looking a hell of a lot like Blades in the dark. I never had never even heard of Blades in the dark! Jeeez

[@kcsnipes]

For me This ended up being more of an ad for some of these games mentioned 😅

[@xKumei]

Having not played the games, I am surprised that a mechanic that reinforces its use is a good thing. That seems like it would take away options and be less interesting? How does it get around that?

[@nicholasfotou2980]

Listening to this as I plat Palia

[@VengerSatanis]

Advanced Crimson Dragon Slayer + *CHA'ALT*

[@BartholomewGrant-ik6mn]

Nice

[@umartdagnir]

2:19 - did I hear it right? "More Gygaxian days of tabletop RPGs"?

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Arguably, the very first system that Gygax and Arneson envisioned was a pen and paper MMORPG-dungeon masters create dungeons in a real-time world where in-game and out-of-game time both pass normally, hit points recover slowly (1 per day) and gold is used to level up. The goal of the game is to dungeon delve to get loot and gold to get to a higher level. You can get to deeper levels with higher level characters, but if you die, you have to start over with your leveling process on a new character. So at the game level, level progression is the goal of the dungeon. At the group level, anywhere from 5-40 players are playing different nights of the week depending on whose dungeon the players want to delve into. A group can even explore a dungeon AFTER another group and find the results of their exploits. So yeah-Gygax had a lot of silly fiddly rules ideas and an expansive vocabulary about discussing them, but the idea of an organic living shared game space is their greatest invention, decades before the mmo genre came into prominence.

[@TheDJLionman]

im so confused why would obsidian make a second outer worlds though???

[@Maxdamageplus]

I’m guessing most of the team thought there was more to be done with the IP, and liked the first one First one was pretty cool but could be improved From what I can tell Tim Cain isn’t fully employed by Obsidian anymore but I know him, Leonard Boyarski and the rest of the team are quite passionate about their work

[@ElfPoles]

PATHOLOGIC 2 MENTIONED OMMGG

[@crowsworthy]

This Burning Wheel stuff seems a little bit off. *Bloody Versus*; Greed, Grief, *Hatred*.

[@lemonking3793]

Pathalogic 2 mentioned

[@whade62000]

Though some of the games he worked on are stinkers, his familiarity and love for tabletops is obvious.

[@SeldonnHari]

Which ones?

[@Maxdamageplus]

@@SeldonnHariFortnite

[@demonazgrael]

I want to hear from him more!

[@tartoras]

maybe i'm misunderstanding but the speaker seems to forget Majora's Mask

[@Maxdamageplus]

Was there a specific part where they should’ve mentioned it? What do you mean?

[@anthonywritesfantasy]

Dan Harmon's Story Circle is basically a progress clock, where the goal is "Return, Changed."

[@Tysto]

IMO one of the best things to steal is tic-tac-toe. Assign story points to each space, & make the acquisition of a space contested. Perhaps allow a space to be overturned under certain conditions or just once each or once per game.

[@alfredrivera4895]

In a Realm where eye-patches are not allowed.

[@JeffreyWashington-b4z]

Schmitt Meadows

[@OblivionOdditiesProjectStudios]

Check out Oblivion Oddities Project Studios game. They are literally implementing all of these Ideas into one game called Oblivion Oddities & plan on making it a template standard for video games to use.

[@mohokhachai]

Two engine

[@ShadowManV3]

This dude yapped for 30 mins with the premise of " how u can take mechanics from TTRPGS " but it was more of an advertisement for all the games he mentioned. He never really went into detail on how u could use these mechanics

[@johnterpack3940]

Funny how perspective matters. He sees the negatives associated with the choices in the mouse game as "interesting back and forth". I see it as Pavlovian conditioning, "stay on the path we decree as righteous or be punished". There is a very real difference between choices mattering and choices mattering. By which I mean, if I do choose to be greedy too often it is entirely plausible that others will no longer want to be around me. It is entirely implausible that being greedy too often should mean I am never again capable of being not greedy. I see nothing of value in that game. Especially not the idea of rewarding players with XP for simply acting on instinct even when that instinct is counter to your current goals and needs. Similarly, he sees flashbacks as a way to open up a "rich tapestry of possibilities" while I see it as a cheap way of letting players cheat their way past an obstacle they otherwise couldn't deal with. But, this is why there are so many games. What appeals to some annoys others.

[@Dyanosis]

12:48 - "Greif"... Someone didn't proofread their slides.

[@dilthurber6041]

The fact that mafia-likes are being called amongus-likes bugs me

[@lonewaffle231]

>'Stealable' Mechanics Starts talking about PBtA...

[@antigrav6004]

I see a lot of tabletop games taking from vidya, but i don't see it the other way around as much.

[@danacoleman4007]

Lol

[@frenstcht]

I'm definitely not okay with trivializing trauma by making it a choice.

[@SeldonnHari]

I assumed it was less about trivializing trauma and about giving players agency in their games, the choice of if they want to be impacted by traumas and play them out. Ttrpgs are about agency and escapism.

[@Yekrep]

Most of these "mechanics" are just the GM making up stuff on the fly.

[@kaseybennett7415]

GMs are the engine of a tabletop game. That's like complaining that your procedurally generated terrain was "made up on the fly" by the computer.

[@BlphBain]

you just discovered ttrpgs 😂

[@Yekrep]

Having a procedure to make something is not the same as pulling it from your ass. If I put random ingredients into a bowl, yes, it would be food, technically, but would it taste good? Would it even be safe to eat? Use a recipe for good food.

[@JSGH-JOE]

"Gygacian Times"

[@kyona5422]

I really feel like they should leave out the "who am I" parts of these talks. I don't think anyone really cares who you are, they only care if your ideas are good or not.

[@robrick9361]

My main problem with this talk is that it's quite regressive but pretends to be progressive. Tabletop games are designed that way because of limitation, not creativity. We're talking about pieces of cardboard and plastic here, not some high tech machine capable of more calculations in a second than a billion humans can do in an minute. The fact videogames even use stats or dice rolls or anything which comes from a physical game is a huge crutch which needs to end. Using a number to communicate a stat like intelligence makes sense when all you have are scraps of cardboard and dice. Videogames on the other hand are made with one of the most advanced types of technology humanity has ever created. They can do better and should do better since they have so much more to work with.

[@chriscruz3889]

I see what you're saying but I'd make a case for the way that limitation can breed creativity. Designing games inherently requires mechanics and framing certain mechanics based on the limitations derived from analog systems such as cards and dice can create interesting decisions, systems or interactions for players. Leaving everything to random number generation or computational systems under the hood can remove a sense of agency from players. Dicey Dungeons is a wildly inventive iteration on the roguelike precisely because of how it uses physical dice and the manipulation of dice to evoke a particular theme and create interesting decisions. Check out Balatro, a new roguelike videogame that mashes poker and Slay the Spire to create a unique spin on the card-based roguelike using a simple deck of cards. It's proof that there's so much room in videogames when we combine the potential of, as you put it, "the most advanced types of technology" and physical game systems/pieces.

[@robrick9361]

@@chriscruz3889 With all due respect to those games, none of them really require a computer to exist. Slay the Spire only needs a computer to render the visuals, the actual game doesn't actually require a computer to be implement. In fact Slay the Spire is a terrible example considering Phantom Dust exists. Phantom Dust also uses a deck of cards to cast spells but the game augments that with actual videogame mechanics. In Phantom Dust if someone casts a spell to attack you, you can avoid it by running under a bridge. The actual game mechanics require computation to work. In Slay the Spire, the only way to respond to something is with a card. This is what I mean by the mechanics not requiring actual computational power. I rarely see games take inspiration from physical games and turn them into something all their own like Phantom Dust. Most of the time it's a crutch for weak designers.

[@multiversedm]

Everything. Read FL-108 by Congress, nothing is copyright under federal law. Thank me later. Cheers!

[@henrykkaufman1488]

I dont understand stealing mechanics from tabletops. Computers let you make much cooler and complicated game mechanics that would make more sense and be more pleasant than tabletops. TTRPG experience is fundamentally diffirent in many regards. I've never understood why horrible AD&D mechanics got adapted for PCs, almost any other cRPG I played had better mechanics than it.

[@siegherz]

Computer games will never hold a candle to TTRPGs. Until we hit the singularity, you will never have the agency in a computer game that you do in even the most basic TTRPG.

[@henrykkaufman1488]

@siegherz I think by putting them on a single scale, you're making disservice for both and missing a lot of value in both. TTRPGs are virtually unlimited expression and imagination-wise. But cRPGs have simulation and calculation capabilities that are physically impossible otherwise. It's like comparing movies to books. They only seem similar.

[@zzar0humanity]

Well that was a waste of time. I didn't need to spend 30 minutes listening to someone gush about minimalism like its the same thing as good design.

[@Jerry7Msa]

In which way was this about minimalism?

[@SeldonnHari]

Yeah, I'm halfway through and I don't even know if you watched the same video I'm watching

[@undead_mole6809]

Did you really see the video?

[@LeFlamel]

He just doesn't like non-trad TTRPGs.

[@MattSmith83]

Tell me you’ve never played any of these games without telling me you’ve never played these game. Good job.

[@JayTohab]

THEFT

[@quantumperception]

A lot of good stuff in this video, but I have noticed something: powered by the apocalypse is beloved by people who make videos and indie games, and hated by every gamer I know in real life. Sorry for the following rant: I think a lot of creative people bought into pbta, hence all the buzz, but that most everyday gamers find it boring and unsatisfying; rules-lite has a good meaning to you guys, but we HATE it! Give me rules; what else are we buying your game for? We make up our own stories, and we just need a system of math to describe the world; if you don't give us that, and just tell us to handle scenes with a single roll, then why would we ever need you, or want to play that stupidly terrible way? Give us crunch! Give us granular rules, and we will decide to ignore them or tweak them if we don't like them, but don't think you can give us some vague general nonsense, call it "story-driven" and pretend that is enough, or that it's an actual product. I seriously cannot wait for the death of this stupid trend, and the return of rules-heavy, combat-focus games over ones with stupid NPC dialogue scenes that annoy, bore, and waste time. If you are being Britta, and worrying about the social issues of an rpg world, you are doing it wrong, and please stop speaking as if you are the community, because you are more like a cancer on the community. Please return to the proper focus of this gaming style, which is non-social encounters, like combat, traps, puzzles, mazes, etc. I don't care about your social justice diatribe pretending to be an interactive play; I want to problem solve and use limited resources to overcome obstacles. You know, the base of the game, and what is it REALLY all about; not what these noobs think is the focus, which again is talking about the feelings of their imaginary friends, lol. But like I said, I think this little social media inspired bubble will soon pop, when the money is clearly in games with actual rules, and therefore value, not just some pretty art and talk about vibes and vague made-up skills. It's basically the substitute teacher putting on Braveheart and saying they are teaching history; don't be lazy, actually bother to create some rules for your rule system, instead of trying to phone it in and pretend that you actually did something worthwhile. Again, I get why creators like it, because they see it as freedom, and probably like coming up with all that stuff, and prefer more social games; people that I actually game with though, who buy the books and accessories, have tried this trend and HATED it! Felt like a rip-off, or at best like we bought a book of some cool artwork, but the system was useless and ambiguous at best. We wanted to pick up a system that works, and get to playing, not have to figure out how to fill in all the numerous blanks in your unfinished system before we could even play, or having disagreements because nothing is clear or spelled out. F*CK rules-lite, and this "let's talk about feelings and social injustice in a fantasy setting" horsecrap. I will never buy anything else "Pbta" and that mark now just tells me that I should stay away from that game, because it is automatically a steaming pile of manure. I look forward to games closer to BESM, GURPS, etc coming out soon, when people finally try this current garbage and are over it, wanting to move on to the next thing. Okay, sorry, I needed to get that off my chest, as I am tired of all the videos praising mediocrity, but I also get that others are different, and I can only speak to those in my community who have shared their opinions on this trend, but obviously there are other sections of the community, and they deserve to have their games and have fun how they want. I just don't like this new apparent trend, and I also question whether it is real, since again, this seems to be one of those things that is popular on the internet, but no one I know in real life likes it or cares. Maybe a bunch of friends trying to help their friend's system by plugging it? Maybe paid to plug it? I don't know, there could be many reasons why a bad product suddenly seems popular on the internet. But the answer to WotC sh*tting the bed isn't to get rid of rules altogether, and have unstructured make-believe about feelings and without combat, the answer is instead to find games that are just as good (if not better) at using math and rules to describe a world. P.S. The only good thing to come out of this trend is a more rogue-like feel that ttrpgs had decades ago, where the expectation wasn't that your character would live, it was that they would DIE! Those that make it are rare and special. That is the only thing in this trend that I see as worth salvaging. Let's take off the training wheels that many expect after modern D&D.

[@chriscruz3889]

A contrasting opinion to some of your points: Some people aren't as concerned with the way D&D combat, and crunch for example, can bring narrative action to a screeching halt. Some people find D&D, or crunchy combat, to be boring and tedious with all the spacing and math and constant rolling (especially at higher levels). I play with a group that's been playing 5e for 4 years now and we're feeling like we've outgrown what it offers. We're less concerned with combat because it takes longer than we want and isn't as interesting for us as exploring character interactions and engaging with the world and NPC's our DM has lovingly developed over the years. It's felt like the combat removes us from our favorite parts of the world. These alternative systems you claim have no value because they have less rules are exactly what excite us. There's more room for us as players to make a mark on the world instead of the binary success/fail of 5e and there's more room for the DM to create dynamic challenges for us. Different systems exist for different people's interests and that's the wonderful thing about this hobby for all of us. I understand where you're coming from but that's why we are all lucky to be able to choose what interests us. The good thing to come out of this trend is that it grows the hobby for all of us as we now have so many entry points for people to find what works for them. I'd challenge you to look at this new wave of games as just another option in a sea of cool stuff to try out.

[@josephknightcom]

theft!

[@kponly]

I hate talk about theft to make it okay. It’s not okay.

[@irisanuwu6113]

if a game you like has a good mechanic and you think your game would benefit from this mechanic, its okay to take it. the concept of a FPS was once "stolen", or the concept of HP also had to start somewhere. "theft" is a colloquial description, its not bad to not reinvent the wheel.

[@kponly]

@@irisanuwu6113 I wish there was something else to call it. As an artist who has had things stolen, I hate to hear about it as a joke.

[@Booneface]

​@kponly inspiration, mechanical influence, blending of gameplay of different genres, finding a starting point for an ability system. That's just naming conventions. However, I agree it should be a starting point and not 1:1 copied.

[@SeldonnHari]

I think that you may be an example of why we need to continue to refer to it as stealing, the idea that innovating and designing games is an iterative process where you will take the idea of your predecessors and they may not like it. My thesis, ideas cannot be stolen only shared. Lately I have been chewing on the idea that ownership does not exist, only stewardship. We will live and die, but the things in the relationships in our lives may continue. Ownership is an abstraction that I hope to replace in my life with the term stewardship, it is a meaningful distinction in how we approach life.

[@kponly]

I’ll try to find a better word for it or I’ll make one up.