Battle of the Class 1 Lasers - WeCreat Vision vs. xTool S1

[@217pyro4]

The almost 10 ft pass through on the Xtool sold me

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Awesome, Thanks for watching

[@lloydgriffith]

I'm curious. What have you used (or will use) the pass through on? Is it mainly large signs or what?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

There are some large format cutting boards (grazing boards) and the possibility of doing signs that make it worth while, although I do not currently have the conveyor. The riser base that includes the pass through tends to be the bigger selling point for most people.@@lloydgriffith

[@Networksandwoodworks]

@@GeekBuildersNet I think you should have mentioned the conveyor as a difference. Its pretty major.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@Networksandwoodworks Yes.. maybe. But as of right now, WeCreate is releasing a conveyor attachment that can also be used on the xTool

[@Eyegazersphoto]

A couple of “features” on the S1 were missed that could be a deciding point in the long term. 1 - The pass through slots and conveyor system - which means you can process very long pieces. 2 - You can change the laser head. Currently it looks like Xtool are doing 10W, 20W, 40W standard diode & 2W IR for metals etc. So it opens up the possibility to do more cutting and different materials - albeit at an additional cost… However on the WeCreat the camera does help a lot if batch processing is part of what you want to do - although jigs can assist with at on non camera machines, and as others have said it’s a lot easier to position work on pre used sheets with a camera system…

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Yes.

[@Eyegazersphoto]

I’ve got some clarity on the lack of a conveyor in the UK and Europe. According to Xtool support, the class 1 certification is not valid on the conveyor system. I suspect that this is because the opening of the pass through slots means that reflected light can escape the enclosure. So no conveyor in the UK :( Also since watching this, some more details on V2 of Xtool’s software has come out, and it looks like there will be positioning markers and extensions in the software that will allow the use of a phone camera as a work around camera positioning system…

[@TheCraftyOrganizer]

Thank you for giving so much detail! Great video.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Thanks for Watching

[@kenm2679]

I have a 100W Omtech, which I'm very happy with, but I run an afterschool makerspace at a school and wanted something the kids could easily use. After a lot of research (comparing the S1 xTool and WeCreate), I just got the WeCreat because of the camera system and suite of projects. I've run a few projects already (using the scan function and doing other things the kids would do) and I think the kids are going to love working with this machine!

[@GeekBuildersNet]

That's great! Whatever is easiest and has the fewest steps to let people start creating is a win. Thanks for watching.

[@EffingtonCouldBe]

I've heard that some companies charge a yearly fee on the software - does WeCreate do that? I'm probably going to get my 1st laser this year. Nice review.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Neither WeCreate or xTool charge for their software. Thanks for watching

[@MaAllen417]

We Creat does charge for the design library after the initial 3 months right?

[@dgperforms1]

Thanks bro! You earned a new Sub. Ive been researching Lasers for quite awhile now. Been lea ing on the WeCreat. Im going to use your link and pull the trigger now. Thanks again

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Enjoy your laser! And thanks for watching

[@josephboog]

Thanks for the video. I liked your table comparison at the end the most. I wish there was a table that compared and showed everything. Size, laser powe, cost, unique features, etc.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I'll look into doing that, thanks for watching.

[@LouRao]

Thank you for providing a comparison between both lasers. Every other video does not touch on batching. If I have several (5) wooden keychains laid out evenly with the WeCreat and am going to engrave a word on each of the keychains, I find that the engraving is hit or miss. The goal is to engrave a word on the wooden keychain dead center from top, bottom, and sides. After autofocus and having the correct parameters, the finished product is off. One keychain may have the word closer to the top piece of the wood, and the other may shift to one side. Maybe out of five keychains, two will be dead center. Mind you, all five keychains were laid out in the center of the tray. Is this happening with your WeCreat if you do any batching ? Also, from day one, the WiFi does not work. It will connect to my network (2.4 GHz), and the computer is on 2.4 GHz, but it continues to drop off the network within seconds. The router is only about 5 feet away, printers, computers, and Alexa are all on the same network and in the same room with the WeCreat, and they don’t drop. Are you having the same issues? Everyone demonstrating WeCreat Vision on KZbin seems to be using a USB cable for connectivity instead of WiFi. I wonder why? Thank you.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

As far as the batch engraving, cameras always have a potential degree of error, unfortunately- the laser companies state that a 1/16 of an inch is an acceptable degree of error for the cameras. I don't agree, but there is not much we can do other than create jigs and files that match the jigs to better ensure placement and accuracy. As far as wifi goes. I almost never depend on it. I have had issues in the past with signals and consistency. I always connect with a wire now. Thanks for watching.

[@Heiserton]

Just grabbed the Vision with the Clean Air Pack for $1799. That’s honestly an excellent deal, especially since air filters are NOT cheap. I have a BOFA for my small print farm and man that thing was spendy. I like the XTool and will likely get the P2 later, but damn they nickel and dime you on everything to allow you to use the machine to its full potential.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Hope you like the Vision, it's a cool machine. As far as the xTool goes, yeah they have a lot of pieces parted out in hopes that people will just get into the ecosystem and then just buy as they need. I'm also hoping to get into the P2 soon also. Thanks for watching

[@ach2935]

Hi enjoyed the video. Looking to upgrade my current diode laser. Can you give me an idea of the cutting thickness on plywood for both machines.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

They both advertise being able to cut through 10mm wood, but I don't trust either machine to consistently cut through more than 3mm wood.Trying to cut through thicker wood might work, but is almost too slow to be feasible. Hope that helps.

[@KwameSolomon-yw5rd]

Answered all my questions. Thank you, getting the Wecreate

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Thank you for watching. Hope you enjoy the machine!

[@jazzie8277]

First and foremost thank you for this awesome review. Do these machines work well with an Apple computer?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Yes, the software for both computers work great on Macs. Thanks for watching

[@TonyMcGarry]

I received my Wecreat today, it was $1198 on sale includes shipping. Set up was fairly simple and first 2 projects turned out alright. It's my first engraver and I'm glad I choose it. Only thing is that the exhaust hose is going to need a suction fan outside before I do any cutting, I'll just use a shop vac with remote switch.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I would not recommend using shop vac. You might be increasing the chance of a fire. There is a built in exhaust in the back of the WeCreate. It should exhaust the fumes enough to get started, but an inline fan will improve the evacuation of the fumes and smoke.

[@GrandmawsWorkshop]

Thank you so much for the comparisons I am in the market for my first laser tool this video has been very beneficial

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Glad it helped, thanks for watching

[@markymaarty]

Can I use the new air filter from X tool on we create laser engraver?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

As long as the laser has a way to manually turn the extractor on, it should work. The auto on feature may not work with WeCreat's software though. I have not had a chance to test out the new air filter, so I can't speak to any other specifics.

[@markymaarty]

Once you have it. Can you please make a video of that? The AP2 from xtool looks a lot better, cheaper and have more layers

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@markymaarty If I get it, I will definitely make a video for it.

[@christopherryan4854]

Im mostly going to be engraving tumblers, have you found a significant difference in quality between the two regarding that material? Ultimately if i want more complex designs im leaning toward the x tool

[@GeekBuildersNet]

No I have not found a significant difference between the machines regarding this. My quick assessment is this though. The WeCreate is great because of the permanent mounting spot for the rotary, but it is slightly awkward working within the machine and you are definitely limited to the size of tumbler you can use. The xTool works great and allows for more flexibility but you have to buy the riser base and rotary unit separately (unless bundled) raising the overall cost quite a bit. Thanks for watching and I hope that helps

[@Grafikdetail]

Just saw an ad on Facebook that WeCreat offers a conveyor pass-through system & claims it is compatible with over 90% of lasers

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Yes this is true. I might have a review unit coming

[@loomyknit1]

Super thorough and helpful video. Thank you!

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@loomyknit1 thanks for watching

[@greenvenus02]

I’m leaning toward the WeCreat since I don’t make signs and mostly make items I can sell at markets. My office is my enclosed garage with the only place to vent right now being where the dryer hose leads out. If I’m able to hook the vision hose there would that be enough to “air out thru window” ….also, is there a hack to be able to cut clear acrylic?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Connecting through the dryer hose should be ok, but ideally it would be a separate line to cut down on the possibility of igniting any lint in the dryer hose, although that possibility should be extremely rare and unlikely. As far as clear acrylic goes, there are some hacks that can allow engraving clear acrylic and possibly cutting, but the hacks are finicky and not always reliable or consistently repeatable in my experience.

[@greenvenus02]

@@GeekBuildersNet that’s right…I wondered if it lint would affect laser operation but hadn’t thought of it igniting. Thank you.

[@BarbaraUpah]

Hi! I have a question on photo engraving on acrylic. Do you happen to know if WeCreat will do the work very nicely, or I should go with a CO2? Also, I heard that smaller the Spot Focus, better the results on engraving. But I was also told to be careful when I choose the machine, because higher the Watts higher the Spot Focus will be. I also heard that CO2 machines are best to engrave, however when I look at the CO2 I cannot find anything less than 40W which it would make the Spot Focus higher. So, in conclusion, how can CO2 be better if the Spot Focus Is higher? Thanks

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Diode lasers tend to be better for high detail engraving, such as with the WeCreate. One of the main differences with the Co2 lasers is the ability to do better depth engraving in one pass., whereas a Diode laser can produce better photographic detail and engrave darker. I will make a video about this comparison soon

[@BarbaraUpah]

@@GeekBuildersNet thank you so much! I'm about to buy a WeCreat machine but I don't have any clue on how to do anything. So any videos would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[@Eyegazersphoto]

Just a comment on the CO2 “bigger” power using a larger dot. That isn’t the same issue as with Diodes. The Diodes use combined emitters to increase their power which is why more power = larger do. The CO2 doesn’t, so it is just a single dot being formed.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@Eyegazersphoto Yes, the laser dot size of a diode is a result of the combined diodes... but in comparison to CO2 lasers, diodes still do a better job engraving finer details... usually. But for certain CO2 lasers, you can purchase specialized lenses to get a smaller dot size

[@mikefitzpatrick5209]

what is the max thickness the WeCreate can cut?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

This is their chart for cutting. support.wecreat.com/hc/en-us/articles/7957447377551-Thickness-of-materials-the-WeCreat-Vision-can-cut-and-recommended-parameters

[@amandamarie1452]

Can the wecreat cut leather? I know it will engrave it but I want something that will cut as well. Thank you

[@GeekBuildersNet]

It will cut leather, but will take multiple passes depending on the thickness

[@amandamarie1452]

Thank you

[@musaeser161]

Which one should i buy for small business

[@GeekBuildersNet]

They are both equal in terms of capability, but in terms of longevity and possibility of running a small business I would recommend the xTool S1. It has more expandability and options to scale with the business. xTool also has a more thriving community and they are constantly innovating and making their products better.

[@buddajean]

Can I use the fume extractor in a basement room? I have no way to vent.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Yes. Any of the high end enclosed filters should work for you. Just make sure to budget for new filter cartridges

[@mikeadair]

Awesome info! Thanks!

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Thanks for watching

[@atlantasailor1]

Can either color metal?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

yes, but consistency can be problematic

[@wixozias8236]

Im sold on the wecreate, now im trying to figure out how to get it over to me in Nigeria 🇳🇬

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Its a good machine, thanks for watching. As far as getting it to Nigeria, it might be worth contacting the company and see if they have any recommendations.

[@GinaManders]

Do you use the available air filter to minimize smoke and particles?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

No. I have it vented outside

[@rodeomomkm]

Thank you! You answered all of my questions!

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Thanks for Watching

[@JamesBond-py8xs]

This is at least the third review I've seen between these things with no determining opinion from anyone on anything one way or the other, but as you and others have mentioned, the Xtool has more costly accessories so for that reason (and some other reason I can't think of at the moment) I'm gonna go with the Wecreate, though I'm sure they are equally fine machines. Just got hit with a home insurance bill though, so it looks like I'll have to wait until next month or so to get started. Ugh.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I can try to be even a little more transparent here. My machine of choice is actually the xTool S1. It is a more comfortable machine to work with, the company has been around longer and has a more robust community… but the main reason is that the S1 is my wife’s machine of choice and she is the one that processes most of the batch orders. But here’s one more but… each machine will do the same work equally well, the bigger decision might be 20w vs 40w. Recreates 40w machine is out, my first showing of the machine will be next week.

[@JamesBond-py8xs]

@@GeekBuildersNet Sounds good. Thanks!

[@Duaner244]

I really appreciate your explanations and the calming tone. I'm wondering if this kind of machine can be used in an apartment? I'm referring to the machine's noise and smoke. Also, is one of these machines quieter than the other?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Both machines are fairly quiet (relatively). They both have fans that pull the smoke out of the machines which generates some noise as does the sound of the motors, but I would consider acceptable indoors. As far as the smoke goes, the external fume extractors do make the machine safe to use indoors, but they also make a lot more noise. The fume extractor I have used with the Glowforge sounds like a jet engine.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

As far as if it can be used in an apartment, I think that depends on your apartment culture, and your apartment agreement. Even with the fume extractors, there can be some residual odor in the air which could (potentially) alarm some sensitive people in the area. The best thing I could recommend is to find a local makerspace, or local friend who can demo a similar machine for you to better assess the situation.

[@Duaner244]

@@GeekBuildersNet Thank you for taking the time to respond. So, it's more the smoke extractor that will make noise. According to this person, there's a way to modify a shop vac filter for effective filtration: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWjUhXhqqZmmnJosi=DkKznndqtqAoX1C9 It doesn't solve the noise issue unless I soundproof the device a bit. I'll continue my research. Thanks again.

[@TheLumberJacked]

If you cut a piece of corplast or foam board and glue a ring to attach the hose and clamp it down, you will have no problems. If using the lasers built in fume extractor, keep the hose short, every foot of hose adds fractions turbulence to the flow that slows down the flow. Short is best in that case. If the foam board is cut to fit the slot in your window, a vertical window for example that slides left to right, you can just close the window against the corplast/foam board and it’s basically sealed. You don’t want the fumes flowing back in through gaps in your setup. Also, set it up near a window that doesn’t have wind blowing directly at it. Alternatively, if you need to do longer runs, install an inline fan, it will allow for longer exhaust hose runs and have more than enough jam to push it out against any prevailing winds that window may be exposed to. You don’t need to run the inline fan on high as they are generally much higher CFM vs the built in fan equipped in your laser. Inline fans are made specifically for 4” 6” or 8” hoses…so you will have no issue finding one you need, adapters are available as well. Save yourself some money and don’t overbuy the inline fan, they will all offer more than enough jam for your needs, so I’d aim for quiet…so a little higher performance than you need, then run it only at 50% and it should be quiet and powerful. The adapter you make for the window will be dead easy to remove, so you don’t need to leave it in the window, so I wouldn’t anticipate it causing any issues for you, especially if the fan is quiet, no one will likely notice and if they do, they will simply think it’s a portable AC unit. 😊

[@lespaulguitarmn1]

Sound advice I have an exisiting dryer that is ducted out side do you think this might be able to tap into this line and share that outlet vent? maybe even run both laser and dryer at the same time? Thanks for any feedback yes or unkown? great tips/ideas all appreciated. @@TheLumberJacked

[@patrickdenis8567]

Thank you for all this info , really appreciate it. I would have a request since you seam to have a lot of expertises. Fumes, I deal with those with my 3dPrinters all the time and was able to make custom filter etc... As for these machine , i see fume extractor that vary between 100$ to 1k ? what is your take on that ? Thank you in advance,

[@GeekBuildersNet]

The air filters/fume extractors have all been pretty good, although I have only tested a few. They all pretty much use the same set up (relatively). I use a hose that I vent outside, but if you need to run it in your home, the branded extractors should be just fine as long as the filter is in good condition.

[@canofanger]

If you could, would you go for a 20W or 40W?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I have not tried the 40w, but based on what I know I would suggest this to help you decide. If detailed engraving is the priority then you want the 20w. If you plan on doing high volume cutting, the 40w is the best option.

[@canofanger]

@@GeekBuildersNet Thank you - I'm gravitating towards a 20W as all the reviews I've seen people are quite satisfied with it.

[@triciasanchez9797]

I am new to this world. Would you need to pay for the WeCreat subscription for it to work?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

No subscription needed.

[@jperalta1476]

Which one do you recommend for a small jewelry business?

[@GeekBuildersNet]

If you are intending to grade different metals, then the best choice is the xTool with the IR laser head. Only the IR can engrave metals like gold, silver, copper, etc

[@MaAllen417]

@@GeekBuildersNet WeCreate came out with a 2IR laser.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@MaAllen417 Yes, I will not be purchasing or testing it though.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@MaAllen417 And the WeCreat IR was announced after I replied to the original comment.

[@MaAllen417]

@@GeekBuildersNet Oh YES! I see that sorry just getting these videos in my feed because I've been looking at comparison videos. thank you. God Speed MA

[@arkansasmade8772]

why couldn't someone make a base for the S1 with plywood? just a basic open box

[@GeekBuildersNet]

You technically could. You would also need to figure out how to bypass the system that auto recognizes that a riser base is attached.

[@reycrypto6366]

Thank you thank you thank you for making this video. That nail on the coffin part sold me. Great video you got my subscribe, like and share.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

Thanks for watching

[@reycrypto6366]

I am wanting to start a business im a newbie. If i have questions ill message you.

[@susanmartinez8060]

I have the wecreate with the electric clean air exhaust . My question is should my house still smell like burning wood

[@GeekBuildersNet]

If you have the WeCreat air purifier, you should not smell much from your machine. It is normal to have a little smell, but not what it sounds like you are describing. WeCreat support will probably have you check all your connections and verify that your filter is not old/clogged. If everything is in order, I would recommend contacting support to see what else they can suggest

[@susanmartinez8060]

@@GeekBuildersNet thank you

[@MyJoliLife]

That. I love our ❎tool!

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I promise this is not a sponsored reply!! 😀

[@basook6116]

Xtool RA2 have to be re-design. RA2 don't have angle adjustment like ATOMSTACK R1 Pro Laser Rolle Rotary

[@GeekBuildersNet]

xTool has an add on that allows angle adjustment now.

[@basook6116]

@@GeekBuildersNet can you please tell me where find one? thanks

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@basook6116 www.xtool.com/collections/accessory/products/xtool-accessory-kit-for-ra2-pro?_pos=2&_fid=caa6d12b1&_ss=c

[@Vasislaw]

The xTool s1 is by far more accurate.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@Vasislaw It’s the machine I use the most… 👍

[@timg6252]

1 is only available in the USA whilst the other is global. Makes the decision for an Aussie like me dead easy.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I'm pretty sure that they are both available in multiple countries especially since they are both based out of China. I just don't think their global presence is evenly distributed. Which ever machine you get, I hope it works well for you. Thanks for watching

[@timg6252]

If it is, I can't figure it out. Shipping is only available for US & Canada. Looks like a great machine at a great early bird price.

[@TheFeist77]

a large portion of this video is not in focus.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I'm aware. I couldn't do anything about it after the fact. The audio was more important than most of the visuals. Thanks for trying to watch

[@TheLumberJacked]

IMHO the S1 has the superior system workspace positioning system. I love the idea of the camera, however, until they can utilize a shaper origin (Shaper Frame really) type system that uses some form visual/machine learning system that can index the work surface position to what the camera sees, then I think the camera type systems will be hard to fully trust with large projects/batches that stretch to the edges of the useable area of the laser. This purely my opinion. And I only believe this to be true because of the software update that allowed the flexibility the S1 should have included from the start.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

I agree with pretty much everything said here. The camera is nice, but not entirely precise. Using the Shaper system would be the best solve for the problem.

[@scaleb51]

It sure sounds like a paid perspective.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

The video is marked as a paid promotion. There shouldn't be any surprises there. I would be happy to answer any specific questions about either laser if there's anything you want to know.

[@scaleb51]

@GeekBuildersNet yes. If neither company's sponsored the video what one would have won? Honestly. I am trying to decide between the two but the alignment is my big issue with the wecreat.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

@@scaleb51 I would honestly recommend the xTool S1. It is my primary workhorse in the shop and while the WeCreat is a decent machine it seems like there. are constant hiccups and issues with the software and/or platform

[@JFReacts1]

Class 1? my WeCreat Vision says Class 4 Laser...

[@GeekBuildersNet]

If it is enclosed, it is class 1. Open Gantry is class 4. wecreat.com/pages/wecreat-vision ---about 3 quarters down on the page, they illustrate this.

[@I-LOVE-EARTH]

The S1 is overpriced and I feel the Class-1 is a LIE! If you purchase the riser/conveyor...they give you a pair of goggles that MUST be used. And no matter what xTool says...a camera like the one in the P1 is far superior compared to the 2-point positioning. Also, try the xTool positioning system and a big piece of wood that was previously used and has a lot of holes in it.

[@GeekBuildersNet]

The camera is really a convenience more than a necessity. Centering an object on a piece with the camera does not always provide the best accuracy. I have used several different lasers with camera systems and the results are always about the same... Some worse than others... (Glowforge) The class 1 designation is not a lie with the standard machine. The addition of the riser does change the enclosed class 1 designation, but it's only when the pass through is used. Using the positioning system on a piece with holes is inconvenient, but still doable. As far as it being overpriced... I guess that's a matter of personal perspective based on what you get and what the machine can do.

[@bneil4059]

It’s a lie that the base S1 is not Class 1?