Gemini Monsters - Failed Cards and Mechanics in YuGiOh

[@suddenllybah]

Konami forgot to give them really good effects. less than a minute in, and I dead.

[@qty1315]

It's kind of sad that most of all Gemini monsters wouldn't even be played if they just had their Gemini effects normally. I can only think of, like, 3 Gemini cards with good effects.

[@seanr.6498]

It's honestly astonishing that Gemini monsters and coin flip cards have the same problem of the effects being so bad that you could remove them gimmicks and they'd still be mediocre.

[@dcarnegie1992]

With all honesty I'm surprised the Gemini monsters weren't better they should have always counted as a normal monster plus all lvl 4 monsters have 1500 atk and 1500 def with a different effects and make them all once per turn on effects like not being destroyed by battle for one Not being destroyed by card effects for another Gain 1000 atk for one Gain 1000 def for another Negate and destroy a spell for one Negate and destroy a trap for another Negate and destroy a monster for another Become a tuner for one Reduce level by 1 or 2 for one Increase level by 1 or 2 for another Excavate for 1 Recycle for 1 Then have a like 6 different level 6 one per type And another 6 level 8 Geminis one per type But can't have all decks being worth it I guess 😂

[@bobfat9458]

Just like a gemini player at locals

[@jayclearmen411]

@@dcarnegie1992 or if they were gonna give em that awful mechanic they should’ve made the effects that triggered better….. {Once per turn : you can change the type of this monster. Once per turn: you can change the attribute of a monster.} both effects on same monster. target an destroy 1 monster your opponent controls when this card is sent from the hand or field to the GY. Target one normal or gemini monster except this card an return it to your hand. Send 1 card from your hand to the GY or reveal 1 Normal monster in your hand. LIGHT an DARK monsters cannot be special summoned. Twice per turn this face up card cannot be destroyed by battle or by card effects. This card gains 500 ATK and DEF for each face-up Normal monster on the field. As long as this card remain on the field, increase the ATK of all normal/gemini monsters on the field by 500 and decrease the ATK of all tuner synchro xyz link monsters by 500 Before Damage Calculation, if this card is attacked by an opponent’s monster, an is in face-up ATtack or DEFense position at the start of the damage step. Inflict damage to your opponent equal to attacking monster’s ATK. This card is unaffected by the effects of synchro xyz pendulum link monsters. when this card is destroyed by battle with a monster from the extra deck and sent to the GY. Activate 1 of these effects depending on the type of monster. synchro your opponent banishes 1 card from the extra deck facedown xyz choose 1 card in your opponents extra deck and send it to your opponents GY pendulum your opponent banishes as many pendulum cards on the field as possible but not more than the monsters lv/rank link both players draw 1 card.

[@AshbornXVI]

If Gemini were also considered as normal while in the hand or deck, that would help the mechanic a lot more

[@brandol75]

or they could be treated as normal monsters anywhere and change the normal summon to gemini summon where it would not count to the normal summon of the turn but have only one gemini summon on each of your turn.

[@MrBusrunner]

And still also count as normal monsters while they have their effects, allowing them to take advantage of normal monster support.

[@XmortoxX1990]

If they errata the Gemini monsters to be normal monsters on hand and a couple of broken Gemini monsters, they might get to Rogue deck status

[@alial-kateeb5267]

While i don't mind this as a change i prefer the following effect monster gemini aka start with an effect and gain an additional effect instead The main reason for this cards like goggle golem tuning magician might as well stay normal monsters even after the second nornal summon

[@Bezaliel13]

But then actual Vanillas would have been powercrept... *even more than usual.*

[@Party0productions0]

Effect Monster: Searches out a card, special summons another monster form the deck, can be special summoned from the hand Gemini Monster: Needs 2 normal summons just to make its name Neos

[@ducklett01god]

Elemental hero alius

[@PedroHenrique-mk5zi]

Konami probably thought Gemini monsters would be the best of both worlds between normal and effect monsters, but they ending up being the worst of both worlds.

[@dappercrow8138]

All they needed was an additional piece of text saying they count as normal monsters in the hand and gy. That alone would've made them a bit more viable

[@Kylora2112]

See: Red-Eyes attempting Gemini builds.

[@thatman666]

I'm glad Pendulums did the hybrid concept better.

[@DJ-tx3ux]

@@thatman666 TOO good in fact. PePe says hi.

[@nunyabiznes33]

@@Kylora2112 I play some Geminis in my cheapass Red-Eyes deck on Duel Links. No MP2 so once they're done attacking I summon Archfiend of Lightning and then resummon it on my turn to wipe out their monsters. But yeah, that's pretty much the only Gemini I use.

[@zad_rasera]

Geminis having hand effects sounds like a genius idea, actually.

[@kenadams8385]

Yeh but can you imagine how much text would be on those cards 😵 what about Pendulum Gemini monsters? That have Pendulum effects that let you have additional normal summons for Gemini monsters

[@jasonguo2141]

There are pendulum gemini monsters? 😂

[@Ramsey276one]

Towel Goblin (Basically a Coach Goblin Apprentice. The art is basically HIM trying to save Giant Orc... XD) [Gemini/Tuner/Effect] If a Gemini monster is targeted bu your opponent, you can Special Summon this card from your Hand, and if you do, you can change that monster’s battle position or change the target to this card. This card is treated as a Normal Monster while in the field or Graveyard . You can Normal Summon this card on the field to gain the following effect. * TBA

[@Ramsey276one]

@@jasonguo2141 I wrote up Gemini FLIP MONSTERS TurnCroc (Reptile, of course XD )

[@gkarak1996]

@@kenadams8385 not really. You could a simple effect of (treated as a normal monster regardless of location). Then add an effect to have, and an effect to gain while treated as a normal monster plus the standard effect of addition normal summon to gain the second effect.

[@joaquinkhourysilvestre2530]

"This card is always treated as a normal monster" There, just fixed gemini, i even saved some card space.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Would be able to use hand/deck-based normal monster support, still could have effects on it, and not sure if intended or not, makes them immune to cards that target and negate effects because iirc you can't target a normal monster with Veiler or Imperm and cohorts.

[@Peinstuff]

@@youtube-kit9450 "This card is also treated as a normal monster", or even "This card is treated as both a normal monster, and an effect monster." There you go

[@J.Macias-wg2rv]

is better: this card is always treated as a normal monster, but retains its effects

[@misterbadguy7325]

Geminis are never going to be good until the day where they can make drawing five Geminis in your opening hand not a brick.

[@dusk6159]

Still using these classics but yeah it's a shame

[@BloodfelX]

So they need a Link 1 monster? (Link Spider and Imduk the World Chalice Dragon don't count)

[@KaoruMzk]

Gemini Link 1 that allows you to special summon something from the deck while also drawing cards.

[@GameModJr]

@@KaoruMzk yikes too powerful for a link 1 even if we're talking about geminis

[@yanderenejoyer]

@@BloodfelX Gemini card with hand effect to normal summon again, but only gemini monsters. Like Vampire Domain.

[@howlingzangetsu]

Honestly I’m not fond with erratas in general but I feel like if they erratad every Gemini monster so that it was always treated as a normal monster until Gemini summoned it really really would fix the entire mechanic fairly well. Then any normal monster support could support Gemini too

[@Bezaliel13]

But then Normals would be truly powercrept, and they need all the help the can get.

[@hanmoamo]

@@Bezaliel13 well, good normal monsters are usually part of good archetypes that target those specific monsters. We could sadly say that normal monsters are already powercrept by many years

[@Bezaliel13]

@@hanmoamo Exactly my point. Besides, why would that be better than just cards that spam Gemini due to only having one getting its Effect per turn?

[@GameModJr]

howling, that's kind of the problem. you'd open up ALL present and future normal monster support to geminis. That's hard to balance.

[@flexican5399]

@@Bezaliel13 ygo has been power creeping everything, it makes sense

[@mateusrp1994]

All the problems with Geminis can be summarized as, they're too tame. Konami never really experimented with the mechanic. They're treated as Normal Monsters, but not in enough places, they don't have effects other than the gemini effects (like hand effects, or banished effects), the effects themselves are too mediocre, and their support cards are all just as mediocre. Each batch of Toons have different restrictions, and its support is wacky. Some Spirits can be Special Summon themselves, or have broken effects, or are even mechanically new like the Ritual Spirits. Unions got bonkers support. Even Rituals got tons of experimentation on the mechanic, like Gishki, Nekroz and now Drytron. Meanwhile all geminis have the exact same restriction text, strangling all gemini effects to be under it and leaving no space on the text box for any effect unrelated to it, or just plain cool effects.

[@rashanmcrae9166]

Well they did get cemicriters as some kind of archetype to work with other Gemini cards but they were treated as back filler and the effects still sucked

[@misterbadguy7325]

Yeah, this is the ultimate problem with Geminis. Even if they theoretically made a good Gemini deck, it will always have to spend most of its efforts on just solving the inherent problem with Geminis. Look at Chemicritters; if you took away their Gemini effects, then they'd just be a super-generic mediocre Rank 8 spam.

[@r4nd0mguy99]

@@misterbadguy7325 Yeah, it really sucks that Chemicritters are so underwhelming. I like the theme and the artwork.

[@carpedm9846]

Yeah I dont get why Geminis cant have effects on the field, and then get additional effects when normal summoned. Like, "once per turn, banish a card from your GY, destroy 1 card on the field, if this card has been gemini summoned, you can instead banish from your opponent's GY as cost" or "once per turn, negate the activation of a spell card, and if you do, if this card has been gemini summoned, destroy 1 card on the field."

[@dolphinsniper]

Too tame, yeah. I like it.

[@jacobwoodman4488]

One thing I never understood about Spirit, Gemini and Toon monsters, is that they all have a specific tag on the card, but still explain their effects in the effect description. I feel like you could easily put those distinctions in the game's rulebook, and explain what those tags mean, while being able to create more types of them, just like how they explain Synchro, Xyz, Link and Fusion monsters. For example, they could make a normal spirit monster with this ruling, making them returning to their hand a game mechanic, instead of an activated effect. This would also let them retroactively change the way these cards work, like letting gemini monsters be normal monsters everywhere as a game mechanic, and having tenyi cards work for them, as it is a game mechanic that they are normal, and not an effect to treat them as such

[@burner555]

Tenyi asks for *non-Effect* monsters, Gemini are Effect monsters with a special ability

[@williamdrum9899]

I love this idea!

[@trbd]

Lots of earlier yugioh cards actually had that kind of thing in their effect description until erratas erased most of the bloat. I think (and i could be wrong but) early fusion monsters used to explain that they can only be summoned by polymerization until erratas just simplify it to just [material 1]+[material 2] But yeah, introducing specific vocabularies is actually a very straightforward idea, which makes me wonder why they havent implemented it yet considering they acknowledged how bloated the card effects became. Maybe because of how many of these mechanics/rulings/effects only apply to very specific archetypes?

[@emmanuelduran3801]

I remember buying the Phoenix Gearfried deck and not winning a single game against my brother but hey at least got a copy of phoenix sword

[@MrVariant]

immortal phoenix gearfried works with evocator eveque and gemini ablation as the fire warrior monster to summon (doesn't have to be gemini). Add red-eyes gemini monsters or neos alius and you have an engine.

[@Skipperthekitty]

I had that deck too, played it at high school. I ended up making a synchro deck out of a deck that had Junk Destroyer

[@voltingmaster5458]

There are no Gemini cards on the banlist, they’re that bad.

[@chrisf.9595]

Were there any gemini monster on ANY banlist?

[@blackg450]

@@chrisf.9595 Nope, mostly not.

[@howlingzangetsu]

I think neos alius might have been but it was less for its Gemini effect and more the hero stuff of the time in general and it being a 1900 base atk

[@Jay-zi4mf]

@@howlingzangetsu It got limited actually. But it never got banned.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@Jay-zi4mf Nah, Neos Alius was never limited as far as I can tell. You are correct that Hero Beat was a pretty legit deck in its time, though - summon Alius, attack, activate Gemini Spark and Hero Blast to blow up two opponent's cards, get a draw, and recycle Alius, and you have a pretty nasty combo for the late 2000s.

[@DekuLord]

The way to fix Gemini monsters isn't by treating them as an archetype, it's to treat them as a mechanic. Rather than trying to make Gemini a viable deck, they should make Gemini monsters for good archetypes that can start their combos with a special summon or can gain extra in-archetype normal summons. That way you give the archetype something to do with their Normal Summon if they don't need it that turn.

[@thermitekitty9070]

@Ahmet Emin Can't believe there's no Toon Tuner.

[@Chimeratech_O.D.]

I'd argue that Chemicritters + FIRE Warrior can almost produce results. The former needs some support, but it can work out.

[@jonathanjohnson3511]

Fun fact one of the best fusions in the game: gem-knight serafinite. Was actually ment to be used with a wave of gem-knight Geminis

[@TheTikeySauce]

Yup. Gem-Knights are probably the only archetype that I've seen that properly used the Gemini mechanic without completely bypassing it, since the archetype had decent built-in Normal Monster support. Gem-Knight Amber, the Thunder Gemini and arguably the best out of the three, had a pretty good Gemini effect that enabled banished recursion for basically free for more extended fusion plays.

[@hanmoamo]

As a gemini player, this video is painfully close to my heart. What I'd love as a support would be tageted milling cards. Geminis benefit the most from graveyard normal monsters support, so being able to reliably mill them would be really useful.

[@YuseiTheSynchroHero]

My boy Gigaplant. 💚💚💚 That card is basically ON THE CUSP of being broken. And in a way... It _is_ One of my favorite older GEMINI that I honestly thought had _some_ potential was _Chthonian Emperor Dragon_ a Level 6 FIRE Dragon Gemini monster with 2400 whose gained effect lets him attack twice during each Battle Phase. Inherently, it has very nice Dragon support even back then and being to do major damage with one singular monster isn't too bad. But he never saw competitive play despite his effect being better than a lot of those other crappy ones with no good payoff. What a weird spot for Genimis to be in. You either have to make the Spell/Trap support busted or you have to be like IL Blud, Gigaplant, and even Doom Shaman where cheating out their effects make them overpowered. Ha ha.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

To fix the archtype, they need to errata Gigaplant to a hard once per turn(or at least make the special summon cost something), then release more disgusting _Gemini-specific_ support that procs their effects in the background. I don't like how they tried to make the archtype so important that it has its own tag in bold next to the card's typing, yet they also were too scared to actually make much support for it to live up to that importance - instead defaulting to just trying to buff it with general Normal monster support. Like, they should just try to make the archtype as broken as they can at this point: guaranteed they'll still find a way to mess that up.

[@DS-tv2fi]

Make a level 4 Gemini monster with 30000 attack that wins you the game when Gemini summoned. That’s “as broken as possible.”

[@jutton11]

@@DS-tv2fi He obviously means within reason, as in trying to one up already existing cards.

[@DS-tv2fi]

@@jutton11 I know, it was a joke.

[@WombatOfDisaster]

Why nerf Gigaplant exactly? Isn't that just shitting on the one viable Gemini?

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@WombatOfDisaster Because if there's a single card that holds back the possibility of a universal "just give the Geminis their effects" card less clunky to use than Raptinus, it's Gigaplant. This is mainly because you can use Gigaplant to revive Gigaplant, which creates a very easy loop. It's kind of like how Utopic ZEXAL held back the creation of searchable Rank-Up Magic until it got banned, because nobody wanted to be the one to make that asshole consistent.

[@PhredLevi]

It's a sham e Geminis didn't come out when Pendulums were a thing, they could have taken some inspiration from them and have the card background be a gradient that is effect colored on the top and normal colored on the bottom.

[@youwayo]

Ironically the best Gemini card isn’t even a Gemini monster: Dragon Spirit of White

[@jayclearmen411]

it is the proto-type of what every new gemini should be fr..

[@starshkr46]

Dark Valkyria is one of my favorite cards, her effect is so interesting and well balanced. Sadly that doesn't translate to competitive success. At least she is great for cubes and stuff.

[@PaintingMeJosh]

I posted my comment about her before seeing your comment, but yea. She's incredible and easily one of the best Gemini monsters if used in a Spell Counter deck, so I was surprised that she wasn't mentioned in this video.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@PaintingMeJosh If I'm to make a guess, it's that if you want a "remove a spell counter to pop a card" effect, then Arcanite Magician is generally better. Sure, it has double the cost, but it's more versatile in where it can draw the counters from, and more decks can fit in a Synchro engine than Gemini support.

[@Lagbeard]

I think Gemini monsters could actually be decent enough if they just gave them the rule change that they always count as Normal monster unless they have their Gemini Summoned effect active.

[@EmrysMerlin8807]

So, I'm super excited to finally be able to contribute something to your video! Something you didn't include was the Structure Deck R: Warrior's Strike. This structure deck included a handful of Gemini support, but is more famously known as the set that revealed God Phoenix Gearfried and the first of the Infernoble Knight Cards, Infernoble Knight Roland. In fact, given that you mentioned that many of the best Gemini cards are indeed Fire Warrior type, and that the best of the original Noble Knight cards were psudo-Gemini monsters themselves (only gaining their effects when equipped with a Noble Arms card instead of via a 2nd normal summon,) the Infernoble Knight cards could be seen as something of a spiritual successor to both of these concepts.

[@KyunaCookies]

They need protection, and interruption negation, like this Gemini Reaction: Gemini monsters that are treated as effect monsters are unaffected by card effects and gain 500 atk. Once per turn you can special summon 1 Gemini monster from your hand, and if you do, normal summon 1 Gemini monster. You can only use this effect of "Gemini Reaction" once per turn

[@GameModJr]

issue is that you'd just normal the same monster you SS'd. if it was "and if you do, normal summon 1 Gemini monster on the field except the monster special summoned by this effect." it would be better. Personally, I think they need a trap along the lines of: Once per turn,If this card would be destroyed by a card or effect, you can destroy 1 Gemini monster you control instead. While this card is face-up on the field, and you control a Gemini monster that has gained its effect(s), apply the following effect: •All face up main deck effect monster(s) on the field, except Gemini monsters, are treated as Normal Monster(s) and lose their effect(s). The turn player may normal summon 1 face up effect monster that is currently treated as a normal monster by this effect to have it become an effect monster and gain its effect(s).

[@thevideo-beast122]

I have been imagining my own YGO series where the main character uses Gemini monsters as his main force. I’ll be honest, I did minimal research when I was designing his cards so some of them might be more broken then I had intended if they were enter the game. Aside from treating his Geminis as Normal Monsters while in his hand or deck, his deck includes: -A Lv4 Lion that nukes the opponent’s monsters and they must discard a card if they want to respond. -A Lv3 Eagle that PLACES (not shuffle) the opponent’s spells/traps to the top of their and they must discard a card to respond - A Lv4 Fiend that (hard once) burn the opponent for 4K -An ace (Lv7 Warrior) that can be Summon by tributing as many or as few monsters as he want. I thought it’s effect could be it’s treated as a Norm Mon if it was summoned with 0 tributes can negate and pop cards=to the number cards tributed to summon it. -Lv5+ Monsters where, if they control no Monsters, can use the opponent’s monsters as tribute summon fodder. This included one where it needs 3 monsters to summon. -A field spell that can normal summon a Norm Mon, Gemini Summon a monster that’s on the field, tribute summon a Gemini, & let’s you draw 2 if you did all the previous effects in one turn. I think the only downsides should be is that it locks you into Gemini Monsters for 2 or 3 turns. -A quick play that, if chain 3 or higher, can negate all card effects in that chain and tribute summon monster from hand/deck/GY by using those same cards as tribute material. -& for variety, all of his traps are trap monster versions of popular traps (mirror force, magical cylinder, Tools of the Bandit, etc) with the same effects as those traps. Let me know how busted these cards are?

[@attilaszanto2275]

It's pretty hilarious that Neos Alius was played for every aspect (type, attribute, stats etc...), except its gemini effect.

[@Weareonenation303]

The Gemini mechanic is even worse when you realize that cards like Torrential and Bottomless can be activated in response to a Gemini summon. Easily one of the worst mechanics in the entire game. Did Konami expect players to give up their normal summon to apply a monster effect that is not good enough to justify the steep cost or is complete garbage to begin with?

[@jetzul712]

I think it's more of a case where they tried to do something gimmicky, but they made the same blunder that they did with Unions and Rituals. Until very recently, the Gemini monsters atrocious effects (excluding a few notable ones like Gigaplant, Il Blud and Dark Valkyria), and weren't really worth playing (ones previously mentioned excluded). Then Konami did what they do to 'bad' archteypes, where they give them only one card every two years as support that doesn't help the gameplay style at all and call it a day while dumping more a shit ton of OP support to Dark Magician and Blue Eyes. Shame really, because I think that with some semi-decent support, the Gemini could have some real potential. The Gigapolant loop is insane, and the Gemini Ablation/Gearfried/Evocator Chevalier/Evocator Eveque have a ton of synergy. And the Chemicritters, while terrible today, were actually quite decent when they first came out.

[@bulborb8756]

honestly...because the Gemini mechanic is just full of problems, in my opinion they should just forget about it completely due to just how bad it is

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

The question is besides Gigaplant and Il Blud, would the cards be good if they were regular effect monsters?

[@Bezaliel13]

@@bulborb8756 Nah, the only problem with the mechanic was the execution, like Goggle Golem. Seriously, Geminis should have had the power to justify the jumped hoop. Instead, super easy to spam monsters get boss Effects for unbreakable boards.

[@thatman666]

I wonder what was in people's mindset back at GX when implementing future card design?

[@PURPLE_G0J0]

I had a grade school friend back in 09 who was my #1 rival during recess. His Phoenix Gearfried would give my Machina deck so much trouble and he would always say that his Gemini deck was unstoppable. In retrospect that’s really funny, especially because we would normally argue while reading over our singular shared structure box rule book😂

[@timmyreobed5043]

"What do Yugioh players and superstitious horoscope enthusiasts have in common? They all absolutely can't stand Geminis." -Rata

[@HazeEmry]

Lmao which video was this?

[@timmyreobed5043]

@@HazeEmry It was a tweet he made. He showed the tweet in the Red Eyes video.

[@nanya524]

Fun fact, Il Blud was a TCG original monster, which is probably why it was one of the only good ones. Also, the spellcaster level 6 version of Il Blud/Gigaplant that revived Yubel from the graveyard was fun. You could turn 1 Yubel's 2nd form by using Dark Grepher and Swing of Memories and then you have a level 11 monster on the field that goes Dark Hole every turn.

[@majordakka5743]

Here's an idea: pendulum gemini monsters XD

[@13eetle13omber]

One of my biggest pet-peeves with YuGiOh is how they create keywords like Gemini, but then explain what Gemini monsters do on every card. I don't play YGO anymore, and instead play MTG. In MTG the newer cards have also have keywords such as Trample or Haste, but don't explain them because these effects have been in MTG for many years now and everyone knows what they do. They could save so much card space on Gemini monsters and use that space to add effects that are worth the loss of a normal summon, if only they'd let the keyword do its job.

[@LazurBeemz]

it pisses me off that Gemini, Toon, Union, and Spirit monsters exist at all. Konami REALLY thought these mfs would be so common in the game that they needed their own special tag next to Type / Effect.

[@Kerim9991]

they look so out of place

[@gotdamn4989]

spirits and unions were all actually pretty decent at a time

[@rashanmcrae9166]

@@gotdamn4989 an still are, toons are a heck a lot better than they were before but Gemini's have, is, and always will be terrible just because their gemini's

[@qty1315]

@@rashanmcrae9166 I find it amusing how they thought Toons would be broken so they gave them so many handicaps. -Not being able to attack directly without Toon World -Not being able to attack on the turn they are summoned -Paying 500 life points when they attack -Being destroyed if Toon World is destroyed -Most of them are high-level monsters Just one or two handicaps would have been fine, Konami.

[@rashanmcrae9166]

@@qty1315 anyone who saw the anime thought they were toons could avoid attack an not take any damage toon world was crazy in you turns were protected by it and the card shadow cat was broken in the anime since OT could copy any card with no restraint. But all of that was in the anime not real if and toons were nurfed stupidly

[@Fathom15128]

This will be interesting on what you have to say. I find some Good, like Red Eyes Archfiend of Lightning and Red Eyes Dragon Meteor Impact for my Red Eyes deck. (For clarification: I am a Duel Links player)

[@isabelapastoriza9920]

Same

[@StarPlatinum72O]

So I made not only my account but also my older brothers account, and I like making fun chill decks and a found a fun combo with 2 cards you can get any time from the card trader, its Magical reflect slime or something like that and super double summon spell or something its a quick play spell that normal summons Gemini and when it's Gemini summoned the opponent takes the damage from the battle instead, so it's a fun little play for if you play a chillin Marik deck lmao! Obviously not meta or optimal but very fun trap lol

[@Fathom15128]

@@StarPlatinum72O Nice

[@nunyabiznes33]

Archfiend of Lightning is decent. Can wipe most boards.

[@thatguyshaq7053]

As a guy that runs a red-eyes archtype, I just appreciate giving the RE gemini monsters decent enough effects. Red eyes has enough support to make getting them on the field simple enough. Black flare is a nice punisher and meteor give good support to other RE on the field.

[@gabrielshields198]

Can you imagine if they made a link monster that keep it Gemini type but when it’s Gemini summon have a continuous effect: while this card is on the field non-Gemini effect monster are treated as Gemini on the field. This effect will force opponent that use special summon that have powerful effect to be treated as Gemini when summon and have to use their normal summon to gain back their effect. Beside that Gemini monster was my first deck that I use. I hope this sub-type improve.

[@erlanddrow7950]

Glad you got around to these because I had no idea how they worked for awhile 🙃

[@kelvinsantiago7061]

I was one of the few people back in the day that was hyped for pendulum summon so that I could finally make a Gemini/Ritual deck, AND I DID! Long live hungry burger!

[@Tahanok2]

I remember getting some of them when they were first released, but I didn't realize until Duel Links that their effect meant you 'normal summoned' the card already on the field. I assumed back then based on the "Gemini" part that they were meant to have 2-3 copies of the same card on the field, so that you'd get 2-3 monsters with slightly better effects.

[@wintersrevenge5958]

I really love your content and play it casually in the background or watching to learn things i didn't know before. I've been out of yugioh for at least 6 years now but i'd love to see you make a few top 10's of the archetypes I played. Glad-beasts, dragunity and stellarknights. I know you have no reason to do any of these, but it's something that would be awesome to cover for top 10's. I could be wrong but i feel they were pretty influential archetypes on what they allowed players to do, in a game state that didn't have a crazy amount of natural special summons. Regardless man, great content and keep up the amazing work you do!

[@dudebladeX]

Ooh. I just had an idea. A card that makes you discard an effect monster in the hand, to pop any enemy card. Then you special summon a normal monster with the same stat line of the monster discarded afterwards (and maybe worded in a way that both effects have to resolve). Basically, you pitch your Gemini Monster, pop a card, and then bring it back. Maybe it should target so that it's not super broken, but still.

[@CD-Gaming]

I actually came up with a Custom Archetype a while back that I keep meaning to do a little more work on where the Monsters all have the Effect that they count as Normal Monsters while face-up on the Field, instead having Effects that went off in the Hand and/or Graveyard, but they were NOT Gemini Monsters! I called them "Wisp"! They could easily work with Justi Break and Champion since a couple were Lv 8, you could also use Thunder End Dragon with them as well! There would be a Lv 4 that you could Summon out and have 2000 ATK; A Lv 3 Tuner that could be Special Summoned if you control a Normal Monster(s); One Lv 8 who could be Tribute Summoned using 1 Normal Monster; And a partner who could be Special Summoned if you control a Lv 8 Normal Monster; Along with other cards who would do stuff for face-up Normal Monsters and/or Monsters Summoned using Normal Monster! Like I say, I need to go back to that at some point, give it some more Monsters, some Archetype Spells/Traps, although if anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them! Also, it's "Xyz Material", not "XYZ Material"! It is not even similar!

[@middknight5202]

Holy carp time has changed! Duellogs does more than duel videos! I remember watching A TON of those very amazing duel videos of different decks way back when this game was fun for me and my friends. Times have changed...

[@icigo12]

love your videos

[@TheDuelLogs]

Thanks!

[@matthewfera2954]

Oh man, been hoping for this one. Always loved gemini monsters, it's just an odd gimmick but some are pretty interesting. I especially like the red eyes gemini stuff which got me into the gimmick.

[@TheJum]

The issue is that sometimes archetypes are just so bad, that the support necessary to make them viable would have to be either so strong that it would be better to splash into a better deck, so so landlocked that the archetype becomes practically impossible to work staples into.

[@julianchrobak-prince1915]

First Assault Mode, now Geminis. DuelLogs must just know everything I like in Yugioh.

[@braxtonneeley2946]

That Gemini structure deck was my introduction to yugioh I learned quickly Geminis were a weak archetype but I still absolutely loved the card art for the boss monster glad Phoenix Gearfried got a decent retrain atleast

[@korrafey1044]

I had a gemin-eyes deck with a chemicritter engine. It used to work pretty well back in the day before hand traps and solitaire

[@Phantom-Neon]

Finding easier ways to special summon Geminis from the hand, deck or graveyard, to keep your normal summon could help as well 🤔 As well as maybe hand effects

[@beebopbadoodlez]

I think it'd be neat if there was a pendulum archetype that used gemini monsters. Get your monsters on the field with pendulum summon then still be able to normal summon one to activate its effect.

[@rejectx7798]

Red Eyes Black Flare Dragon and Red Eyes Archfiend of Lightning are both pretty decent Gemini Monsters, especially Black Flare Dragon where if you attack with it, at the end of the battle phase, you deal 2400 Damage to your Opponent as a sort of sneak attack. It’s also easy to pull off :D

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

They should print a field spell where, if you control a face up Gemini monster that had its effect, your opponent's monsters are treated as Gemini monsters and don't have their effects unless they spend and extra normal summon on them.

[@Gr33do]

The first yugioh cards i ever had were from the 2008 warrior strike structure deck which was focused on gemini monsters, good times

[@TheNorthie]

6:06 One of my buddies played a 9 monster E-Hero deck back in the day with the Neos Gemini monster. He only used it for Gemini spark and the miracle fusion/super poly when it was still legal. It did pretty well and even made top 8 at a regional back in 2013-14.

[@Sup3rNo7a]

They need to release an archtype of gemini monsters that can just special summon themselves from the hand, then you can normal summon them to gain their effect(s). Hell, maybe even just make that a base mechanic of gemini monsters, that they can special summon from the hand (maybe even needing tributes for higher level ones, like the early toon monsters) for you to then be able to use your normal summon with them to gain their effect(s). And if that's too broken because of xyz/link/etc extra deck summoning, add a stipulation that they can't be used as materials for extra deck summons or something.

[@Bludkon]

I remember when Gemini's first came out and tried them....immediately went "Oh, I done goofed"

[@tiszach]

I like the continuous spell Gearbreed. It's not super good, but it looks cool and it says Gemini in it's card text.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

I am still surprised there aren't Gemini monsters that emulate effect of Banned cards. Like A Gemini monster whose Gemini effect is "Once per turn: You can draw 2 cards", or "Once per turn: target 1 monster in either player's GY; Special Summon it". Or more "meta" effects like "a Quick Effect Omni-negate" That would at least let them probably see some competitive game

[@GameModJr]

considering cards like Reptinus, Ablation, and supervise exist, they wouldn't print those kind of gemini effects.

[@williamdrum9899]

Magic did this a few times and it turned out well

[@Switchell2]

IMO if they had Pendulum Monsters who acted as Gemini Support, that would go a long way towards helping them become much better and more consistent.

[@guhtrindade]

Thank you for creating yugioh content. I love your videos. I really do. We all can see how much you love what you do. Are you excited for yugioh master duel coming soon?

[@TheDuelLogs]

heck yeah

[@Tasuofrivia]

I ran a Phoenix gearfried gemini deck in my childhood and it’s my favorite deck ever. I still hope they can make a comeback to make them more viable in today’s standards

[@bastianokamiro5421]

I would revamp them, it would be really cool if Gemini instead stick more to the origin of it name, -Geminis-, and let you summon a copy of that card, either from the deck or gy, to activate the gemini effect Both effects hard once per turn for the first card (second cant abuse it cause of the hard one per turn) This way, you reaaaally want to pull off a gemini effect as this could let you special summon easily from the now effectless gemini monsters Edit: with the current power creep of the game, it doesnt seem as too powerful by how not so good gemini effects tend to be ^^u

[@robinlinh]

this is actually a cool idea, to require 2 exact same gemini monsters on the field to trigger the effect instead of 2 summons. But I think you could leave the summon another copy thing to support card and not automatically include it in every Gemini monster, because you know link play. Special summon from deck gonna just turn them into link spam and not used for Gemini anymore.

[@rookbishop7822]

With that gigaplant and ill-bud would be ban with it advantage to go plus 2 or 3 in one turn

[@bastianokamiro5421]

@@robinlinh a lot of cards have been used for their nature rather than their effect / archetype effect, as long as they are more playable.. this is just a random idea nonetheless so its funny to talk about this kind of "what if"

[@GameModJr]

you understand that Gemini monsters are called Dual Monsters in the OCG, right?

[@bastianokamiro5421]

@@GameModJr dual also can refers to a duo or twice of something xD

[@meman787]

I remember having the Gemini structure deck and playing against my friends. They would get confused when they would try to target them as effect monsters before they were Gemini summoned but I had to explain that they aren't effect monsters which lead to a whole argument that they were effect monsters because that was their effect but its not their effect its there type. I had fun with that deck and I remember the art for the monsters being really cool but it wasn't worth the arguments.

[@Inf3rnaI]

I’m not even a big yugioh fan I just love his voice, it’s so soothing

[@magicalminachan]

Heavy Knight of the Flame was used in Duel Links for a while as a generic good card for Balance Control. Helped that they finally learned their lesson and gave it a good payoff in banishing any Special Summoned monster it hits.

[@prickayeey8420]

The gemini summoned skull was fire 🔥 in duel links for a while

[@servbot128]

Tbh an easy way is to have a monster that treats all monsters on the field as Gemini monsters so your opponent is forced to play them too lol

[@DestroAzureDx]

You've given me a new phrase to sum up yugioh. "Konami releases Pre power crept cards for whatever reason".

[@PaintingMeJosh]

I get that this video is primarily meant to generalize Gemini monsters, but because you went into such extensive detail surrounding individual Geminis and how they were used outside of Gemini-related decks and combos, I feel a need to point out a pretty viable Gemini monster that has come in quite handy many times for me. "Dark Valkyria" is an incredible card to include in a Spell Counter deck. Her effect is after she's Gemini summoned, you can place 1 Spell Counter on her, and then remove said Spell Counter to destroy any monster on the field (your side, your opponent's side, face-up, face-down -- literally ANY monster). Outside of a Spell Counter deck her effect can only be used once, but in a Spell Counter deck, you can consistently add more Spell Counters to her for additional monster destruction. Oh, and she gains 300 ATK per counter. Paired with cards like "Magical Plant Mandragola," "Mythical Bestiary," "Pitch-Black Power Stone," and "Magical Citadel of Endymion" you can keep using her Gemini effect over and over again to destroy any and all monster's on the field (including herself if you want to). As for ensuring that she survives on the field long enough to double summon her, there are countless Trap cards around to protect her from attacks and card effects; but specifically staying within the realm of Spell Counters, "Power of the Guardians" works wonders too. When played correctly and with the right combos, "Dark Valkyria" is one of the best Gemini monsters out there, so I was surprised that she wasn't ever mentioned in this video.

[@phoenixgemini42]

I remember buying the Phoenix Gearfried structure deck and just stomping my friends in grades 4-8ish. Granted they mainly used pure structure decks and I modified mine a bit, but still. Foolish burial Gearfried, summon blazewing butterfly and give its effect somehow, summon Gearfried and then resummon blazewing with Gearfried's effect. It was a fairly good strategy against other structure decks at the time. To this day Phoenix Gearfried is my favorite card and I just wish the Gemini mechanic was better designed.

[@Golden-Monarch-One]

Soo, I’ve been playing recently, nearly complete with Gemini Summoning 100 Monsters. With the ban of Terraforming, one thing Gemini support can use is a way to search Dimer Synthesis, be an Effect monster to specifically for Dimer Synthesis. And then that effect Monster, ideally a Chemicritter, has a Once Per Turn where it can target 1 Normal Monster that can be Gemini Summoned, and treat it as an Effect monster until the end of turn. Chemicritter need a Rank/Link 2 Chimecritter to assist in treat Gemini monsters in hand as Normal Monsters and or Special Summon them as Effect Monsters. With some kind of decent protection.

[@HapsterHap]

I’d really like to see a “Top 10 cards that require you to discard as a cost”. I feel like there’s a lot of good ones, but I don’t really know anymore since so many have been power crept.

[@brewski118sempire]

Back in '12 I ran an gigaplant blackrose dragon deck. Obviously wasn't great but I had lots of fun with it and whenever new plant support comes out I get excited to see how I can work it in.

[@gkarak1996]

I have created an archetype of gemini monsters that are treated as normal monsters when they don't have their archetypal counter on them (regardless where they are :hand, deck gy, field, banished) and also have an effect that add counter on their summons. When they have counter they are treated as effect monsters and gain an effect that remove counter from themselves to activate.

[@arrownoir]

Every time I’m cooking I have the top 10s in the background.

[@TheSgtslow]

I actually like Geminis I've had a lot of fun with certain builds. I would love to see Gemini get some more support in the future. Maybe a new archetype as well.

[@Jay-zi4mf]

I didnt know that the field spell or the continuous trap existed. With the right support that deck could slap.

[@TheSgtslow]

@@Jay-zi4mf In my personal opinion Fire Warrior Gemini Deck are currently the best version of Gemini decks you can probably make. I've experimented with all types of different builds. Also he Gemini decks ironically enough can make for some really good Xyz builds. I do a lot of Yugioh RPs allowing me to come up with a whole bunch of different decks ideas.

[@Jay-zi4mf]

@@TheSgtslow I've been out of the game for a bit cuz I lost my job and had to sell my cards to pay rent until I found a new one. But i still play the games, even duel links. I'm actually working on a blue eyes build which I already have ordered through tcgplayer. I play for fun mainly. I just want a basic deck to tide me over while I collect new cards as well as work on maybe a dark magician build. Once I'm at a certain point I'll get back into the meta. What decks are meta now a days my friend? Sorry about the book of text btw lol

[@TheSgtslow]

@@Jay-zi4mf That's fine dude I'm not really a Meta player I use to compete in tournament in highschool but I do know what currently the Meta is looking like Virtual World, Dragon Link, Drytrons, Zoodiac, Adamancipator, Dogmatika, Shahadoll to name a few.

[@Jay-zi4mf]

@@TheSgtslow nice. I'm shocked zoodiacs are still meta. They banned almost all the good key cards in the deck like drident and ratpier is at one also zoodiac barrage is at one. I played them when they came out. Was so much fun. The Zues engine was unreal.

[@frankaxe6700]

As a Gemini my self I wish they were better

[@sirboxyIII]

Honestly I loved Gemini and Aliens, which is why I ended up here on this channel in the first place. I see that this series is a bit old, but can I suggest other archetypes like Watts or more modern archetypes that might have fallen to the wayside as yugioh powercreep exists?

[@justaguy3310]

And now Gemini is a good edison deck

[@SpeedTy24]

Back in the past of Duel Links one of my main decks was Red-Eyes who had some Gemini support such as Red-Eyes Archfiend of Lightning, I guess for them at least the addition of making them Gemini was to make sure they had support for cards supporting Normals but still give cards effects at the same time. But if I were to give a new support card for the archetype, I would like to see a Gemini only card that acts like Birthright and other cards (perform special summoning) which let's you choose to either make the special summoned card become a Non Effect, a Normal, or an Effect monster to open up whatever path you wanted to do for the deck, such as Summoning out a big beatstick to be a non effect monster which can be helpful with the Tenyi cards.

[@marlow1586]

i love that the actually useful gemini support seems to mainly just negate the gemini gimmick instead of making that gimmick an engaging and strategic mechanic.

[@anmolt3840051]

Red Eyes decks have a way to use Red Eyes Archfiend that is pretty common in Duel Links. Dump it in the graveyard with Red Eyes insight to search a red eyes spell/trap and then use Red eyes fighting spirit to special summon it from the graveyard, and normal summon for the effect in their next turn

[@skyslasher2297]

I’d there a reason why catalyst field can’t have the same effect as the fusion

[@TheDuelLogs]

Gigaplant. Basically all gemini support has to be designed around not making Gigaplant broken

[@skyslasher2297]

@@TheDuelLogs seriously goddamn It Konami

[@zad_rasera]

Ban Gigaplant pre-emptively, and then go crazy with releasing broken Gemini support. You can thank me later, Konami.

[@Gebirges]

Since they are already treated as Gemini, they could get rid of the "Effect"-Monster status and make them be like Pendulum Monsters instead. One part Yellow, one part Orange. That way they could have the first text passage gone and be treated as both dependend on if they were already summoned or not.

[@infinityfactorial]

I just want to be able to make King Pyron a functional card. Blazewing Butterfly is another excellent card that I had expected to see featured in this video but I really just want a way to make those two cards a proper backbone of a deck. After all, it's 2021... We all know that Konami knows how to make broken cards. Can't they at least make more *good* Gemini support like Ablation and Supervise that can fill out Gemini decks?

[@mymarshlands]

I personally just wish the gemini cards were yellow like normal monsters but had an effect box. It would make them way easier to tell apart from a glance 😩

[@SorenFE93]

And this is why I love playing my Chemicritter deck. They are unique and not a lot of people actually heard of them. Gemini Ablation and Evocator Eveque helped out this deck A LOT. Honestly, I've managed to pull off some cool combos. Especially with Catalyst Field. Now am I gonna win every single time? Nope. But it is a fun deck to use because occasionally I see some good wins.

[@IricAlexis]

1st. they need to fully decide to treat default gemini monster as effect or normal monster. 2nd. they need to change the rule of normal summon at field to be a special summon if some condition met (like there is field or continues trap/spell exist or some gemini boss monster exist) then after second summon gemini will be treated fully as effect monster until they got banished. (the effect can stay after they got second summon, it's can ruled by their card name or unique to that card alone until they got banished)

[@RenzoBse]

Back in 2018 in Duel Links Gemini decks saw a little bit of competitive play for a short period of time due to Gemini Spark. The deck won a couple of DLM tournaments and was definitely KOG Worthy. Gemini Spark came in a good main box so was worth getting it.

[@EmperorHelix]

Gemini Soldier was so awesome back then. I loved using Staunch Defender with it.

[@keenetaylor8772]

I find some Gemini monsters super useful, if you run a Red Eyes deck you can use synergy with Red Eyes Archfiend of Lightning/Red Eyes Black Flare Dragon/Meteor Dragon Red Eyes Impact + Red Eyes Insight + Red Eyes Spirit/Return of the Red Eyes in order to special summon any of those monsters on the field super easy and they would have a higher than average power w/ pretty great effects. I'm currently using a Gaia Knight/Red Eyes deck in Duel Links and having fun with it, and it made me want to make a Red Eyes deck for actual play but that's a lot of money to invest atm.

[@simpleevan3583]

This guy have another channel for dnd and i love it

[@MyMediaChops]

To fix Geminis I would 1. Combine woodland archer, knight of the red lotus, and gemini scorpion into one card kinda like xx saber fault troll, 2. Create a brand new archetype around geminis similar to Floowandereeze where the effects would give you more normal summons a turn, (probably based on fire warriors) 3. Create spell/ trap or monster cards that have the effect which force your opponent's monster to be treated as geminis 4. Errata the monsters to be considered normal while in the deck or hand 5. Create retrained versions of the older gemini monster/ spell/ traps to work in the modern era

[@nothingreallyrhymeswithora9377]

In theory, Gemini cards could have been good for their generation. The problem is, for some stupid reason, most of them had really subpar/average effects for eating up another summon. They should have been designed to be more extreme. For example, hell, Goggle Golem could have made its effect be a 3000 ATK when double-summoned. It would have made the card solid for its time without being OP.

[@BrolySayian]

The funny thing is there was also a very very very powerful trap you can use for Gemini and that is Ultimate offering did people never use that Gemini it's pretty broken if ultimate offering ever came back if that would help Gemini's out a lot because I know I use it with Geminis and it helped big time but that was a very long time ago

[@mateusrp1994]

That has the same problem as Gemini Ablation: it's a Trap card. It's too slow to be used, and there aren't many gemini monsters with effects that can be used on the opponent's turn.

[@noukan42]

Ultimate offering would be completely broken if it came out of the banlist and Gemini wouldn't even be the tip of the iceberg.

[@9thphony]

I remember playing red eyes flare dragon, that was super fun! It had a pretty good effect (but of course I never actually used it correctly, didn’t know what was gemini at all!)

[@Straswa]

Great vid DuelLogs, I like using Chemicritters in Duel Links.

[@URAYULI]

Il blud's art is so fucking cool, I really wish more yugioh cards looked like it

[@grizzlybear6377]

Goggle Golem is my man. I could never turn my back on a monster that cool. I eagerly await the day he and his friends get more support

[@Sokaras3]

Hand effect sounds cool. Would also be nice if some geminis also had efffect to he treated as normal monster everywhere