Venom Counters - Failed Cards and Mechanics in YuGiOh

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

Venom counters feels less "failed mechanics" and more like "unfinished and left forgotten"

[@AaronHeininger]

Nah they need a revamp. Their current support having more cards won't fix anything. The only good cards that got created for reptiles from this failed deck were snake rain and offering to the snake deity. Everything else is useless and falls flat to an MST

[@clementb6963]

@@AaronHeininger I always feels weird when I read about yu go oh, because I'm french and for me, MST means STD Sooooo many weird sentences for me !

[@AaronHeininger]

@@clementb6963 when I was in highschool I was talking to Hispanics and Philippinas and they brought up the difference of words and meanings to those words. Example How one place it means a certain word meant milk but over somewhere else it meant a bad word.

[@superbaas8822]

Venom Burn, also called "Just use wave motion cannon." As the only player to actually bring Vennominaga to a TCG event and get featured (Shonen Jump Chicago in 2007), let me tell you that the venom monsters got dropped out of the deck pretty much instantly. It was indeed more effective to turbo out Vennominion and Vennominaga using the fact that Vennominion is one of the easiest mid-boss monsters to summon in the games history, working with basically every trap card known to man like Damage Condenser and obviously Damage = Reptile. If you can find my feature match vs Anthony Alverado, you can actually see him trigger a 3500 Vennominion off a damage condensor, and instantly call his battle phase off, and waiting a turn to draw his Heavy Storm to clear an already set Rise of the Snake Diety, before using his Lightning Vortex to clear Vennominion and get the conceed from me.

[@bothack8874]

man i remember play vennominaga turbo, it was so much fun lol

[@joeyhoward-williams8853]

a true g

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

honestly its better to run just mystic mine and not use vemon at all. if u have to use vemon I say messager of peace with solemn wishes. so u can slowly drain their atk power lol. now if they made more snakes but good ones then mabe lol

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

Just like with union monsters, this feels like a concept that they can fix pretty easily

[@itachi-kun7736]

yeah but Konami is crazy to keep printing DM&DMG and Blue Eyes Support cards

[@thefisherman0074]

Lets be honest they won’t fix it they will make it broken

[@parkouremaster]

They fixed "LV" in a way, with the thunder armed dragons, they could same with ice counters, but Konami goes to the easy way and basically every deck right now is "Special that and search that so you end with the same board every duel"

[@AeonKnigh432]

@@parkouremaster Good decks are consistent. If a deck isn't consistent, it isn't good. So of course most boards look the same by the end of the game

[@parkouremaster]

@@AeonKnigh432 The problem is not the consistency, but the fact every single deck is that, none have unique features to difference, they are just that, special summon and search.

[@biglangley8779]

If they made you unable to use monsters with venom counters for any tributes or extra deck plays unless they were Venom, these counters would suddenly be way more serious of a gimmick than they are.

[@Luminousplayer]

that is kind of what the predaplant do xD

[@dearickangelonej.legaspi6686]

@@Luminousplayer yeah that was the first thing that came to my mind the moment Predaplant was revealed, a better Venom deck

[@Merilirem]

Indeed i think Venom counters could make more sense if they instead followed the chain. Like you have 1 counter on each of your 4 monsters. You use them to make 1 big card who now has 4 counters on it transferred from all its parts. So any card summoned with cards that had venom counters would just be full of venom and possibly even die immediately. Done right this would make Venom counters very good and would make sense since its like eating poison. Would also be cool if they switched the venom cards to be capable of taking counters but gaining positive effects from them.

[@rustleancar131]

@@Luminousplayer literally starving VENOM

[@ladyriethegoldendelmo5441]

@@rustleancar131 straving Vemon dragon is really toxic lol

[@ave4622]

It'd be nice if they get new modernized field spell and some supports. Maybe make monsters unable to be tributed or used as material when they have venom counter, so you can interrupt their plays and freeze their board, then slowly kill them (like real venom).

[@pulsefel9210]

A balance would be add that they can be used but each counter adds an LP cost to the action. Early game that's not gonna do much to prevent, but eventually it will be a danger

[@mateusrp1994]

I once thought of 2 custom card supports for that, one that places 1 Venom Counter immediately upon summon, and one that makes any Extra Deck monster inherit the Venom Counters of its materials. So for example, if they summon 2 monsters then go into a link 2, said link 2 would have 3 counters and immediately get destroyed by Venom Swamp if they have 1500 atk or less.

[@alexanderrobins7497]

Or let the monsters be tributed or used as materials for extra deck monsters, but transfer all venom counters to the new monster(s).

[@britishjack9931]

@@mateusrp1994 I thought the same thing, but the one that places VCs on summon also protects venom swamp's, and the inherits VCs would burn the opponent when VCs leave the field. btw the names I came up with were (Lost in Venom Swamp) and (Deep Vemon Swamp)

[@CrnaStrela]

Honestly, a better venom swamp would do well, like placing 1 venom counter for every venom monster with different name on your side of the field, everytime a monster is summoned, then have it work with reptilliane gimmick that took control of 0 attack monster, admitedly that's way too scary and warrant a ban at some point but hey the game now has a lot of broken cards, why won't let the reptille bros have their share of fun?

[@purin6792]

I didn't even notice that Starving Venom and Greedy Venom are technically a part of the Venom archetype until this video, and the Venom cards are one of my favorite bad decks.

[@IGuessVince]

Same lol. Also a fan of venom for years hoping new support was added.

[@purin6792]

@@IGuessVince Yeah, I would love to have more venom support. They need better monsters.

[@pulsefel9210]

i could see an interesting way to work them into something scary. have the field spell also make the counters move to anything the monster is used to summon. since tribute, syncro, xyz, and link all require you to actually pick the monster being used its not impossible. "if a monster with a venom counter is used for a tribute, syncro, xyz, or link summon: place all of the venom counters on that monster on the monster summoned." now they just need to protect the field spell and start slinging venom counters. theres still ways around it that are common, but it would really help it out.

[@eblis9037]

I think in this very channel I once saw custom Venom cards and a retrain of the field spell that stated that any monster whose atk is different than their original atk has its effects negated, which seemed like a very cool concept to add to the archetype honestly.

[@memsysr]

Their field spell dies by a fart and has no protection from its archetype. It should be like if there are venom monsters in the field it should not be destroyed and destroy if no venom monsters but you can banish venoms to bounce it in the graveyard to the hand.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

Sounds like too much keeping track of counters.

[@nytecrow6452]

@@ShadeSlayer1911 I mean...Cubic Counters Negate the effects and prevent them from attacking so it's not a stretch

[@sultanmuwaffaq6173]

Make a new field spell for them with that effect + venom swamp effect + once per turn, if this card would be destroyed by a card effect and your opponent have at least 1 venom counter, drain all venom counters on the field, this card is not destroyed. It specifically says that your opponent have to at least have one counter so the opponent can kinda bypass it turn one or by not controlling any monsters with counter before destroying it

[@zad_rasera]

In the anime, Rise of the Snake Deity can trigger if a Vennominon gets destroyed by battle (which it did). Konami probably thought that was too broken. This is all your fault, Jaden.

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

Honestly, I sometimes think Konami just really doesn't want to be out done by anime team so they ruin some cards that would be decent for the game if they were translated one for one.

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

Here’s something: They could retune the venom counters to be able to also exist on the venom cards themselves, like venom being stored in a snakes fangs for future use. These could provide buffs (extra attacks, ignoring certain cards effects during battle, burn damage after battle, basically anything that makes sense with the concept of how snake venom works) to the venom monsters with tokens on them that can be transferred onto opponents cards and turn into debuffs. The debuffs could in turn be a variety of things, based off the context of the situation. They could negate effects of chosen monsters, lock them out of attacking, make it so they take piercing battle damage when in defense position, or even affect the enemy player themselves, like bleeding their LP’s, forcing them to discard cards, stoping them from drawing new cards…

[@clayxros576]

This is usually the best method for using counters I find in card games. If Konami played into that aspect, we could probably have a formidable control deck.

[@davidhobbs5679]

Honestly there's heaps of ways they could fix the issue with venom as an archetype, your way is one, another is to have venom counters persist on extra deck summons, and of course in general giving them more monsters who can use them for effects, honestly they could be made into an awsome control archtype. If konami actually remembered that they existed

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

@@davidhobbs5679 And then they’d have to fully merge the two venom archetypes (the reptiles and dragons) while they’re at it.

[@d007ization]

I shifted to using Venominaga and generic reptile support extremely quickly when I tried to make this archetype work. The GX villain who used Venoms was kinda badass though.

[@videogamer678]

His backstory was sad too. But he got suckered into Yubel's bullshit.

[@bulborb8756]

yeah, trying to make Venom's work is basically impossible due to how irrelevant and bad they are, then again many reptile deck's where pretty damn awful (aside from Aliens who are actually "ok"), at least Ogdoadic's are finally a competent reptile deck

[@ethribin4188]

Venom counters should have transfered to monsters that use the envenomed monsters as material. That would have been an interesting concept and mechanic.

[@IGuessVince]

Or as a counter, monsters with venom counters could have restrictions like, can’t be tributes or used as an extra deck summon. Possibly negate their effects or something lol

[@AliFai-ij3zx]

Like they get sick from using a source of power that have been corrupted by Poison. That's very interesting... This just shows how much Konami can do with this whole Venom/Poison mechanic if they did actually decide to support the archetype.

[@OracleOfTheOasis]

I feel like with a proper combination of updated “venom” support, and a Ogdoadic engine, this could actually be a fun deck to play

[@snowboundwhale6860]

You mentioned how the "Venom" dragons are part of the archetype despite having nothing to do with it, but what you didn't mention that I find hilarious is the Manga/ Pendulum counterparts for "Starving Venom Fusion Dragon", "Starving Venemy Dragon" & "Starving Venemy Lethal Dose Dragon" both not only specifically avoid the "Venom" name, but they're also the ones who actually have a counter placing effect that causes monsters to lose ATK per counter present, and their counters are called "Venemy counters". So the 2 dragons that come closest to actually having shared effects with the reptiles are also the ones that are specifically made to not be "Venom" monsters, and they doubled down by distinguishing the 2 types of counters because Pendulum Dragon - Venom Burn is such a scary deck prospect I guess.

[@SWAATSFan]

And these Venemy monsters are better than the whole Venom archetype, because they don't stick to a archetype and instead support all DARK Dragons with these counters, because they're not affected, also you don't have to wait for the End Phase to place counters, instead these crazy dragons get a counter with every card sent to the graveyard.

[@honeycrisp808]

Vennominaga is one of my favorite cards. I hope one day we can see some new support/retrains for these cards. Maybe have some way to let venom counters last for longer, like having the counters transfer through materials or locking a monster on the field, unable to be used as tribute material.

[@飛び猫]

If this actually happens i can’t wait to see a venom ojama meme deck that just locks the enemy from summoning anything on the field

[@ClampEEGEE]

Counters that go in a Zone rather than on a monster could work. Like Poisonous gas counters or something.

[@icefiredragon94]

Man i remember when i played this competitively in...2008 on the DS lol. Burden of the mighty and the venom stall cards made it so easy to go into their boss monster. Shame they are so easily countered now

[@azuredragoon2054]

If there was a card that could put 2 Venom counters on any monster that was summoned, while you control Venom Swamp, it would probably make the archetype viable. As getting just 1 would make your opponent unable to keep some monsters around long enough to use them beyond being summoned.

[@sirswagabadha4896]

Mini slifer effect. With how many

[@Rainbow-Dash]

This can be splashable in any deck that does not use field spells as a possible tech option if your opponent plays lots of low att monsters

[@azuredragoon2054]

@@Rainbow-Dash Which is why it's predicated on being a 2 card combo. Even if it just put the counters on without Venom Swamp, without Venom Swamp it won't function as a flood gate.

[@Sassaparilla]

@@azuredragoon2054 yeah, he's saying that decks that dont require a field spell would be able to use the strategy without the issue of conflicting Field Spells.

[@azuredragoon2054]

@@Sassaparilla Okay, true. But it's also a double floodgate like Skill Drain.

[@noctusdoesthings]

If they gave more venom monsters effects that applied to venom counters, like aliens have, alongside more spells to place them, give effects, and use them up for effects like venom burn does while also giving monsters with beefier stats to at least survive while they're on the field then it could lead to a very strong gimmick. They'll never do it but it's nice to hope for

[@GymLeaderJasmine]

If Venoms were played by a character actually important like Yubel and not some forgettable villain that only appeared in a couple episodes they’d have support up to this year. 😢

[@racerlord2329]

They would definitely be more well known and used more while getting more support to make them good enough if that was the case

[@jairoherrera4040]

Even yubel doesn't get support

[@racerlord2329]

@@jairoherrera4040 they sadly just gonna focus on the main characters that people really loved with the support like blue eyes, dark magician, stardust dragon, etc

[@jairoherrera4040]

@@racerlord2329 At this point, I am very annoyed with konami's obsession with BEWD and DM mainly. I have no interest in spending my money on those.

[@racerlord2329]

@@jairoherrera4040 ikr I get it those are og monsters and they did give some newer support to Zarc (Now that astrograph is unbanned) Utopia, Elemental hero’s and a few others but funny enough those other decks are better than most other blue eyes or dark magician support anyway yeah the two got great support but I’m ngl just a bit tired of it and want to see something else

[@butteryfriedwizard2219]

This is my greatest qualms with yugioh. The Venom archetype was a favorite of mine. I was devastated that they got virtually no support.

[@dudono1744]

A wild concept for venom counters would be to make all venom cards (that stay on the field) give effects to venom counters.

[@crabman96]

Actually there’s one thing wrong about what you said. Even if Venom Swamp is removed/flipped face down, the counters do not go away. The effect is stopped, but if you manage to bring out a second Venom Swamp after your first is destroyed, the counters are retained.

[@rolebo1]

Not venom swamp, the cards holding the counters.

[@monkfishy6348]

He didn't say if Venom Swamp gets flipped face down. He said if cards with venom counters get flipped face down. Which is correct, and true of all counters.

[@coopeachu]

The most tragic part was when rise of the snake deity was originally printed, it *did* trigger when venominon was destroyed by battle, too, but I guess that was too powerful so the errata’d it almost immediately

[@crossknight1490]

I think we all would love to see really broken support to some of these failed mechanics (not archetypes with these mechanics, but something more general). I think it would be historic for the game to see for the first time a meta where "Venom counter burn", "Union monster swarm", "/Assault mode control" and "Gemini OTK" are the rule

[@kenyonlemke9285]

I used a reptilianne/venom deck way back in the day. I hope they bring more support for those archetypes would be a real change of pace.

[@clayxros576]

Reptilianne got some really competent support last year, with more on the way. I imagine if they properly made legacy support for Venom, we'd have a serious duo of control to mix together.

[@fortello7219]

They could probably revitalize the archetype by releasing a new field spell that makes venom counters lower attack by 1000 and destroys any monsters on the field with 0 attack. Probably give it a once per turn can't be destroyed effect. Then release better deck monsters with venom interactions and the ability to place tokens when removed from the field. Could easily have a boss monster that gains 1000 attack per counter and can't be tributed or destroyed by monster effect.

[@GameModJr]

1000 is too much per counter, 500 is just right. the only thing needed is more monsters that give counters more utility. Alien monsters come to mind, many have the ATK lowering effect, while others restrict/use counters to do stuff. how would you even counter that boss monster? aside from negating the summon?

[@fortello7219]

@@GameModJr Most meta run removal heavily. 1000 attack lowering would be fine also since attacking isn't really used for removal anyways. The alternative would simply be doubling the number of counters

[@og403]

@@GameModJr kaiju. I think the 1k lowering COULD be okay if venominaga was on the field though. 500 until then tho

[@GameModJr]

@@og403 not everyone runs kaiju and in the op's post it couldn't be tributed.

[@GameModJr]

@@fortello7219 no it wouldn't. how often do you see cumulative stat increases in the order of 1k? not nearly that many that's for sure. there's a reason for it being under 1k most times, and why it should continue like that, meta relevant or not

[@DigitalxGamer]

Venom is such a cool archetype concept, though, and I would really love to see a return to this. Maybe just give individual monsters different effects that used venom counters, and maybe make it so that venom counters are transferred if your opponent uses it as Fusion/Synchro/Xyz/Link Material.

[@CrumbsLamond]

What if the venom counters could be placed on venom monsters and those monsters could select to put them on... selected field spots to lower the attack of anything on that spot or use venom counters to protect themselves from effects, using venom counters as protection currency?

[@dagbanna4055]

I think an interesting failed card mechanics to talk about would be Spirit Monsters, since a majority of them are not good and the speed of the game making the normal summon more and more valuable inadvertedly makes them weaker, since there are only a handful of good spirit monsters among the years of not good ones. I think looking at flip monsters in this series would be interesting, but I wouldnt say they're as failed a mechanic as spirit monsters. Also, I think an interesting Top 10 to do would be top 10 archetype specific fusion cards, so looking at stuff like thunder dragon fusion, odd-eyes fusion, miracle fusion, and even other non spell card ones like darklord uprising or dinorphia domain/frenzy.

[@alexanderrobins7497]

I don’t use Twitter so I can’t send cards in, but I made a field spell that gave Spirit monsters +500ATK/DEF, reduced their level by 1 in the hand, and summons a token when returned to the hand.

[@OGCxDaizy]

@@alexanderrobins7497 I think the token is a cool idea but it probably wouldn't last long enough to be useful on the next turn. Mabey if the field spell also gave a second normal after normal summoning a spirit or if the field spell could tribute tokens to negate something this way the token can actually do something for you on your opponents turn.

[@Observe-h1t]

@@OGCxDaizy My kind of support for spirit monsters would be like this: Name: Spirit World - Shikoku Type: Field Spell " As long as this card is face-up on the field, all monster on the field is treated as spirit monster, If this card is activated add 1 Spirit monster from your deck to the hand, (Quick Effect) You can return one spirit monster from either player field to the hand and if you do immediately normal summon one spirit monster from your hand, you can only activated each effect of "Spirit World - Shikoku" once per turn,

[@OGCxDaizy]

@@Observe-h1t this would be crazy. Would make spirits top tier for sure especially because it means you can summon the spirit that stops special summons

[@Observe-h1t]

@@OGCxDaizy yep, i though combo with this card Amano Iwato can be deadly since their monster needs to be on the field to activate any effect so no hand trap.

[@Runestarr007]

I'd honestly love to hear about some unique mechanics that became successful, also keep up the great work love your vids

[@joshuawoodring1697]

Loved venom counters as a concept and always hoped they'd give it some love lol. I am enjoying watching your vids helping me learn new cards in my continuing effort for a 0 turn kill deck lol

[@chriscolourshair4925]

I really love the venom archtype, wish they would get a LOT more support, as the venom counter thing is such a fun gimmich

[@Geddn]

The Venom archtype is the one i wish could get alot of support due to how cool the artwork is and how interesting the venom counter strat would be if it was workable

[@SAMURIADI]

i dont think the dark dragon fusions where ment to be "venom" archtype. but honestly their so seperate that it doesnt matter unlike "frog the jam" theres no way to mesh them together w/out downsides

[@zad_rasera]

Well, it's a GX archetype. And the people in Arc V who used Fusion monsters (like the Venom fusions) were inspired from GX characters.

[@BaeBunni]

The point was more about the fact Konami is so over Venom as an archetype they are still gonna call them Venom despite getting a possible benefit from a useless set of cards. It's not like we are gonna get cards called "blue eyes" on random warrior monsters that have nothing to do with the archetype.

[@AliFai-ij3zx]

I think another reason Konami put the "This card cannot attack the turn it activated it effect" clause on their venom snake is because of lore/real world references, somewhere I heard that venomous snakes like viper, cobra, boa, mamba and ... Don't snap at their prey when they are poisoning them. Because of how cold blooded they are they first ambush the target and weaken them enough before finally attacking and presumably swallowing them a whole. Now I don't have any definitive proof of this being the reason why Konami made some of the Venom monsters not attack after poisoning a monster. But it weirdly has some sort of connection. Ohh and also GX era was a time when Konami was mostly doing things because "LORE" like "Worm" monsters or "Ally of Justice" archetype.

[@DarthEyesDragon]

Venom rattler 4star earth Reptile/effect 1400/300 While venom swamp is on the field your opponent cannot not set monsters face down(they may still set monsters face up) Snake hatchling 1 star dark Reptile/effect 500/500 When this face up card is destroyed, skip the next players battle phase. Except the turn this card is sent to the graveyard you can remove this card from the GY to add 1 spell/trap with venom in its name to your hand. Venom nest Continuous spell You may add 1 level 5 or lower venom monster or snake hatchling from your deck to your hand. You can only activate this effect once per turn. Except the turn this card is sent to the GY you can remove this card from the GY to add one level 5 or lower venom monster from your GY to your hand. Venom poison cloud 2 star dark 0/400 If this card is destroyed by battle while you control venom swamp destroy the monster that attacked it, and deal 500 points of damage to your opponents LP. Venom power up Continuous spell Venom monsters gain 200 atk for every venom counter on the field. As long as you control a venom monster this card cannot be destroyed by card effects.

[@baermane]

My favorite deck! I wish we could ever get a viable alt win condition, it's really where we just lose to MTG, They're allowed to get so wacky compared to us

[@kirika119]

Actually the amazing thing about this is that there is a card in mtg called Toxrill, the Corrosive and it pretty much does what venom swamp does but since it can fit into a few other strategies and it has 1 more card called sludge monster that just makes the counters it puts on people even dumber (it negates monster effects and makes them a 2/2 if they have any of the counters on them) the Toxrill card became busted as all fuck in edh (commander format)….I have the deck and it’s basically playing Venom swamp on absolute horse steroids XD

[@tipodeincognito5660]

As someone who went from yugi straight to mtg... The extremely long and covoluted card texts are a way worse. That and the long lost sense of a connection between effects a what a card is supposed to represent.

[@kirika119]

@@tipodeincognito5660 for mtg ? I think the cards are on flavor and the effects are simple to understand (for really really old cards that do have insane text there is an oracle text that clears it up)

[@tipodeincognito5660]

@@kirika119 No, no, I was talking yugioh problems that made me change game.

[@hart7668]

Grass must be greener because I've been having some fun diving into YuGiOh in Master Duels as a long time Magic player lol. Love both

[@ygodecktestertube]

Counter decks, in general, suck because they're not capable of being created properly due to lack of beneficial support. Predaplant Dragostapelia is actually a really good example of how they should create cards that use counters. If counters are immediately useful, you can take advantage of them quicker, and that mitigates you losing out on your opportunity to use your counters because your opponent got rid of your card.

[@PaperFlare]

This is peak GT era card design: they put a lot of thought into what could be a flashy duel in a controlled environment (ie, a scripted episode) and put little thought into how it would actually play. It has everything: a "spooky" field spell, a "tense" inescapable mechanic, a mid-boss monster that is a bait and switch for the REAL boss monster. It has it all. Of course, none of this works in real duels, just like Neos, Yubel, the Sacred Beasts, etc, etc, etc.

[@GMSryBut]

Venom Counters would be so strong if the counters wouldn't be placed on the monster but the monster Zone instead.

[@KaoruMzk]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting Venominaga is part of an archetype. Honestly, they should retrain the archetype to be centered around bringing her more easily instead of the attack reduction gimmick.

[@Excellsion]

She basically isn't. Like, yeah, immune to venom stuff, but it is SO inconsequential. Apart from being reptiles the stupid snakes really do NOTHING for Venominaga.

[@aleksynowik3055]

Technically, she isn't. Her name is Vennominaga, notice the extra 'n' in there, so she isn't part of the archetype by official rules and the only thing giving her immunity to Venom Swamp is her general immunity.

[@Excellsion]

@@aleksynowik3055 Pfffttttt surprised I didn't catch that. That somehow makes every awful Vennominaga deck that plays these stupid snakes worse, because as it turns out, it isn't actually thematic (anime appearance aside.)

[@aleksynowik3055]

@@Excellsion I can't wait for someone to make Venom-Dimension Dragon-Predaplant counter spamming deck, all the while keeping everything in theme. And none of those "Poisonous Snakes" imposters (both Vennominon and Vennominaga mention those in their names, which is BS because snakes are venomous, not poisonus, and would place them in the archetype).

[@bigjohnsbreakfastlog5819]

As Rata himself pointed out in Legacy of the Worthless, Venom as an archetype is something that has the potential to go somewhere, since "It's Free Real Estate". Reptiles still have practically no real support after nearly 25 years, which makes them having such massive boss monsters like Reptilliane Vaskii, Evil Dragon Ananta, Ogdoabyss, and Cornelius himself, Divine Serpent Geh, all the puzzling, and the counter mechanic remains a half-baked idea that people don't run due to them usually being slow in a game all about speed (it's funny that Reptiles have two archetypes around counters with Venom as well as Aliens). The card "Snake Rain" is clearly intended to flood the GY with Reptiles with the intent of bulking up the two Venom bosses ATK and DEF, which is the idea behind using the card. But, there's still a few missing ingredients. However, given that Venoms were only used in *one* duel in GX by Thelonius Viper and Viper himself was immediately killed off the instant he lost, that effectively slammed the door on Venoms getting future support since... well, you can't exactly mill ideas off a dead guy who only dueled once and spent the first 12-13 episodes of a season lurking around the background and got owned by an alien arm, now? Even so, the fact that Venoms suffered from being trapped with an extremely unpopular type (Reptiles) and a gimmick mechanic (counters... I mean, if the magicians of Endymon can't make counters cool, who will?) likely means Konami won't revisit them.

[@justanothercommenterwithan9089]

i love this archetype and i alway try to make a semi-functional version of it whenever reptile support comes out. or if i see something that can synergies with it kinda. I'm eternally hopeful for some support to this archetype because it feels like a couple key cards away from being useable

[@YoruKurotsuki]

From the mechanics, I think their idea was for this archetype to just be a counter for stall decks, but they greatly overestimated how powerful it would be so they reeled it back hard. Errata venom swamp to work on both atk and Def, and make it so the monsters get trapped and it would be a serious threat

[@vivian-alexandrarivers897]

Honestly, if Venoms got an actual wave of support that recontextualized how Venom Counters effected things as well as letting the field spell add Venom counters when maybe, I don't know, sending Reptiles from the deck to the graveyard?

[@dudono1744]

or let each card give effects to venom counters.

[@Teixas666]

Venoms are actually quite good at counter generation, their problem is that those counters dont do much. that's where their support should focus. Reptile are already good at filling grave due ot cards like "Snake Rain"

[@vivian-alexandrarivers897]

@@Teixas666 Aye, and I'm saying that Venoms should get absolutely every benefit they can. If you can't go broad, go tall when it comes to stacking the counters.

[@efrainamezcua7594]

This feels similar to MTGs poison counters mechanics.

[@wiredhubworld9523]

Yeah, but it's way easier to win with the poison counters.

[@certaingloom3797]

In a sense, Venom Swamp should have also included an end turn 500 damage burn to both players unless they controlled a Venom Monster.

[@Ramsey276one]

3:15 Fatal Fog of Venom Swamp Continuous Spell When a monster is Summoned, place a Venom Counter on it; if you control other “Venom” cards, you can place an additional Venom Counter on a Monster for each card type (Monster, Spell, Trap) among them. If “Venom Swamp” is on a Field Zone, this card cannot be destroyed.

[@emobassist]

To be fair venom counters came out in a time where people would still tribute for things like summoned skull or dark magician and when special summons werent out of control i remember when venom counters came out and they were way more powerful when the game was slower

[@KaoruMzk]

What are you talking about? Venoms came out on Tactical Evolution, by that time we had Perfect Circle Monarchs and Destiny Heroes as the meta, and just a few months later we would get Gladiator Beast and Lightsworns.

[@emobassist]

@@KaoruMzkwe had all of that too but most casual players in our group ran with the basic stuff. The core group used monarchs and all the meta stuff

[@ShyRanger]

Kind of a geeky thing to bring up, but I have been messing with the idea of my OWN Yugioh Archetype, so totally a fan thing. Bringing it up because it relates to this, where you brought up how Counter decks only really work when you're placing counters on your OWN monsters, and that was my main thought too when making my idea.

[@salvadorsanchez5057]

counters in general should need a clause like "if a monster with [x] counters leaves the field, you can place counters on face-up monsters on the field, up to the amount of counters it had." this would at least make it so venom or a or predaplant counters don't get countered by Lol just link summon

[@grapple_r3356]

I definitely think that would help counter based decks a lot if they can distribute counters when a monster with them is removed from the field, that's why Aliens and other counter based cards are hard to use.

[@nightphoenixv]

rise of the snake deity can miss timing. which is important in making it even worse

[@wladimirdiaz.7532]

Love ur vids Man, started playing again since GX and thanks to your top 10 I'm not so lost LOL

[@SheruMuko]

I have been waiting for this video! I developed Venom Counter support before. Venom Counters in the hand.

[@urbanshadowgaming3559]

imagine putting counters on zones instead of monsters.....

[@sirswagabadha4896]

Not sure how much room exists in the game's rulings for something like that to happen. Putting counters on the field spell which would then affect all the zones would do pretty much the same thing

[@VolvagiasBlaze]

It's sad that venom's have one of the most stupidly overpowered boss monsters in the entirety of the game, so good that you can still bring it back after being kaiju'd pretty easily, but her archtype is holding her back.

[@noravanguard]

What if the venom counters could be transferred to other monsters. Like if you use a monsters with a x amount of venom counters as an extra deck material, the venom counters would transfer over.

[@jairoherrera4040]

They should make more venom support than drying up BEWD or DM with their excessive support.

[@sirswagabadha4896]

But don't you want to summon kaiba's blue-eyes jet turned into a real dragon?

[@jairoherrera4040]

@@sirswagabadha4896 If it wasn't an anime's exclusive card before, I am not interested in that.

[@hellkaiser64]

Ways I could Fix Venom Monsters with new support(Without Retrains): -More Swarming : If Snake Rain can send 4 reptiles to the Graveyard, you can make some OP shit with Reptiles... IDK, something like ''Discard 1 Card , Special Summon 3 ''Venom'' monsters with different Levels from your deck but they (Insert Restriction here)'' You can Use all 3 Venoms and their effs, and you can summon Vennominom -More Searching: A continuous Spell that searches One Venom Card or Rise of the Snake Deity Or Both (they are reptiles... GO CRAZY) -A way of making the new monsters retain the old monsters' counters... Something like ''If your Opponent uses a Monster with a Venom counter as material for a summon, transfer those counters to that monster'' -A Link Monster? -An Easier Way to summon Vennominom or Vennominnaga and actually use their effects... You Need to inject 10 tons of Steroids if you want Venoms to be decent

[@sirswagabadha4896]

I see a lot of similarities between aliens and venoms, except aliens actually got some support that made them decent. Both of them are kind of improved by just running an ogdoadic engine too. Like their field spell lets you send a card to the graveyard whenever a reptile is destroyed. They have cards revolving around sending reptiles from your deck to the grave and triggering graveyard effects by doing that to themselves. Reptiles in general could be improved by just having a dedicated engine for turboing them out like that since there are so many bad reptile archetypes

[@Lich_the_Eternal_Tyrant]

Anytime I think of venom snakes, I remember playing against an ai in duel links who got to cheat out a venonominaga, and I managed to make a giant Chimeratech Overdragon and just attack it like 12 times till it finally died

[@infinitydeckrecipes]

Day 1 of waiting for more venom counter support

[@Rainbow-Dash]

I remember from YGO Tag Force that some guy had a Venominaga Turbo deck using some of the Meklords or something I don't recall how the AI did it but they pulled it off relatively easy even in a 2009 format

[@lawlietl297]

do you plan to have any fan duel (either your fan dueling and you do live commentary or you duel a fan) for your youtube streams ?

[@Highland_Ronin]

I remember one of the video games had a challenge to win with Venomenaga's effect. I sank far too much time into that challenge because the requirements to summon the card and win with its hyper venom counters was so hard

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

I just came up with a little cheat for the deity: use a card that ignores summoning conditions to summon it, and have another card out that prevents said cards negative effects from removing the deity from the field. So use A Wild Monster Appears to force it out, and either have a card that forces cards to not be able to be shuffled back into the deck or flip it face down. That should by bypass AWMA’s effect to return the card it summons back into the deck and keep venominaga out indefinitely.

[@shanehaney6040]

Isn’t AWMA a lingering effect that’ll just try to trigger the “return to the Deck” effect every turn? I think that got brought up on one of these lists, but I can’t remember off hand

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

@@shanehaney6040 Here’s the exact effect: “If only your opponent controls a monster: Special Summon from your hand, 1 monster with an original Level of 10 or lower that cannot be Normal Summoned/Set, ignoring its Summoning conditions. It is unaffected by the effects of your cards, except for its own effects and this card's, also shuffle it into the Deck during your opponent's next End Phase. For the rest of this turn, you cannot Normal Summon/Set or Special Summon monsters, and your opponent takes no damage.” So by that reading, if you manage to dodge the “shuffle it into the Deck during your opponent's next End Phase” once, you should be in the clear.

[@shanehaney6040]

@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire per a quick look at the YGO Wiki, looks like someone thought of this and there’s rulings regarding summoning Venominaga with AWMA If "Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes" Special Summoned by the effect of "A Wild Monster Appears!" is destroyed by battle, the "When this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard: You can banish 1 other Reptile-Type monster from your Graveyard; Special Summon this card." effect cannot be used, since it needs to be Special Summoned by the effect of "Rise of the Snake Deity" to use the effect. If "Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes" is Special Summoned by the effect of "A Wild Monster Appears!", since the "also shuffle it into the Deck during your opponent's next End Phase" effect is applied when it is Special Summoned, it is not affected by the "This card cannot be targeted by, and is unaffected by, Spell/Trap effects and other Effect Monsters' effects." effect. "Vennominaga the Deity of Poisonous Snakes" is shuffled into the Deck during your opponent's next End Phase. Considering Venominaga’s immunity to card effects and that she can’t be targeted by card effects anyway, dodging that return might honestly be the hardest part. If you can think of an easy way to do it, I’d love to hear it - I love alternate Win Conditions, and Venominaga is just difficult enough to be worth jumping through the hoops to go into, but I can’t think of anything off hand to really cheat her out AND keep her on the field

[@mattr791]

@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire there is no card in the game which can prevent a wild monster appears from shuffling back the summoned monster

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

@@mattr791 There are a few methods the wiki mentions: A card such as "Call of the Haunted" can be used to Special Summon "G.B. Hunter" during your opponent's turn to prevent the monster Special Summoned with this card from returning to the Deck. You can also summon "Legendary Knight Hermos" with this card and use its effect to copy "G.B. Hunter". If the summoned monster happens to be flipped down by an opposing "Book of Moon", "Book of Eclipse", "Subterror Behemoth Ultramafus", or "Invoked Raidjin" (which will be the case depending on how much of a threat the summoned monster is), the same result can be achieved.

[@terryliliana]

i have been playing Venominaga since the old days and it pains me Konami never made the archetype actually good.

[@king_vision4085]

I still have a Venom Deck for fun on Duel Link or Master Duel, as a side deck it feels great when you win. Would be awesome if Konami brought some support to older decks

[@bulborb8756]

it depends if they'll remember if the deck exists, i mean they recently did that with Krawlers with the announcement of Krawler Soma

[@Torifunee]

Finally my favourite series!Thiswas really enjoyable.

[@SnailSnail-lo4pm]

2:50 not to mention it actively buffs vennominon and venomminaga by sending reptiles to the gy

[@marshallwarner9676]

Love this series. Please keep it going!

[@NICOCLASH]

Honestly venoms have excellent backrow support given its time period, so excellent that those cards are subpar at worst if we account modern standards, because there are way worse cards that got printed way later the introduction of these backrow support, it's a shame that the normal summonable Venom monsters were so OUTRAGEOUSLY BAD

[@Straswa]

Great vid DuelLogs!

[@ratioed1438]

They should've made venom counter inflict lp damage.

[@grantharrell5434]

I did create a venom burn deck that relied on stalling, stumbling, vengeful bog spirit, and a mix of the cards mentioned at the end with spirit or flip monsters like stealth bird. Kind of boring to play since it is super slow and very control based. initially tried clear world instead, but that was much worse than venom swamp which says something.

[@UltimateLink1]

I'm not sure if it would be a good pick for a Failed Cards & Mechanics vid (since I don't know if they even were used competatively), but I'd love to see a video on the Ghostrick archetype. They're one of my fav archetypes in the game.

[@JohnnyMacs19]

If they retrain this and don't do move the counters to the tributed/extra deck monster you can move the counters to the new venom swamp. It can protect the field spell by removing a counter then redistribute them however you want+ the original effect one per turn on everything.

[@nytecrow6452]

I wanted this mechanic to be good. I love the concept of the poisonous swamp slowly eating away at your enemy as they slowly succumb to the swamplands to be eaten by the vermin

[@Yakuo]

I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS THANK YOU FOR MAKING THEM!

[@alialluaibi3008]

Please do Top 10 cards with the wording "you can use the effect of this card once per turn" meaning you can use the effect of that card against that turn if you have another copy of it !

[@babbit09]

Something I thought would be interesting was if some counters placed themselves on the monster zone rather than the monster cards themselves, but only some as last thing we need is spell counters staying between monsters. For example, any monster zone that has a monster in it gets a venom counter each end phase via venom swamp, and the normal effect still applied, it'd be like if a monster was standing in the venom swamp and letting more venom sink in, making any monster that went into it effectively have the number of counters on it as the zone has. I know this premise has a potentially huge amount of flaws but I really want to love Venoms and their playstyle and so badly want them to be at least viable in average for fun duels without relying on nigh-total lockdown.

[@loloudbeast]

I do have a topic to discuss that hasn't been talked about on this channel in over seven years: Spell Counters.

[@Cyndadogo]

Hi Duellogs thank you and your team, i really love your content and i learned a lot having fun! Cheers! 💕

[@LesbianWitchAcademia]

I feel like all Venom would need is a retrain of Venom Swamp that had the following 2 effects added to it: 1. If this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can send one card from your hand to the Graveyard in order to place this card in your Field Spell Zone. 2. Monsters with Venom Counters on them cannot be tributed or be used as materials for a Link Summon. These two effects actually make Venoms a pretty seriously powerful Stall/Stun deck. With the ability to always keep Venom Swamp on the field, you never have to worry about your Venom Counters suddenly becoming useless, and this would also make basically any monster that isn't immediately linked away dead in the water for your opponent. If they then made another Venom boss monster that had a Quick Effect to remove a Venom Counter from anywhere on the field in order to negate a monster effect, I think Venoms could be seriously competitive.

[@Dimizar]

Mtg's version of venom counters (poison counters) have seen competitive play and is still a legit strat in eternal formats. Sad we didn't get new venom support.

[@kaiyang0183]

I can think on some solution to fix this archetype, like giving Venom Swamp ( or a new field spell ) a effect that puts a venom counter on a monster special summoned and reduce their atk ( venom monsters are not affected ), if new venom monster cards were added they can be protected from attacks and effects by just removing one venom counter from anywhere.

[@DarkEmissary617]

Too bad I was so stoked when I pulled Vennominon out of a pack as he was one of my favorite monsters. I went high and low to obtain Vennominaga and loved using her. I wish they had made more to this deck.

[@nexolord9]

I really really really want new support for them :(

[@abrahammartinez3603]

I used to play poisonous swamp with statue with anguish pattern. High defense, 0 atk so it can store counters without being destroyed by the sawmp and also it can't be targeted by card effects. Not the best strategy but it did allow me to finish players off with poisonous burn.

[@ReifinDFanchon]

Venom is one of my favorite archetype, with that glorious T H I C C reptile waifu. As a FromSoftware fans, gotta love that "Venom Swamp" Field Spell, can't get enough of those goddamn swamp. Hope Venom will get new support or modernized to fit modern Meta to same level as Pendulum Endymion.

[@tnsrs2719]

I think thqat counters could be an interesting Archetype/Mechanic. Like allowing to spread counters that apply passive effects on their own. Like place a Green Venom at three the Monster can not use its abilities for a turn , or gets spinned or flipped etc. Add a close that stipulates the counters fall off one at the end of each turn and you could have a mechanic that bypasses a lot of protection abilities and play into the Venom/Poison fantasy

[@darobi]

Continuous Spell: Snake Pit. Effect: When a monster you or your opponent controls with venom counters is removed from the field. place those venom counters on Snake Pit. When a monster would be special summoned to either side of the field, place a venom counter (or counters?) on that monster. May or may not need to be once per turn.

[@popstarchamp]

Here's an idea for placing counters on opponents monsters en mass: Make it so whenever a monster with counters leaves the field, those counters move onto another available monster. So the only way to completely get rid of all of them is to clear your field entirely or something along those lines. Or have a continuous or Field Spell that takes all the counters of monsters who left the field and let's you redistribute them later. And maybe on that point take a page out of the Endymion Field Spell's book where said counters can be used to shield itself from destruction.

[@RedJoker9000]

I saw it as a mechanic that if saw animated (like in anime) the counter would frightening you making you duel harder. Some text seem odd/pointless unless you saw with your eyes.

[@nunyabiznes33]

I think one way to make the Venom counters work is for it to deal unnegatable damage when the monster that have them leave the field by the opponent's actions and/or transfer the counters to whatever monster is summoned in its place.

[@emred4653]

Counter cards in general need a upgrade/rule change.

[@omarortiz9660]

Btw, i remember having a duel against a Vennominaga deck using Worms. It was the battle of the big reptiles. Of course, Worm Victory was the key

[@edhikurniawan]

I remember challenges from nintendo DS YGO back then, 'summon xxx' very hard to pull off monster cards. Vennominaga is one of them.

[@angrynightmob]

And Snake Rain continues its search to find an archtype that can use it, and when it does watch out.

[@tespenkr9924]

I use Venominon and Venominaga in a Reptilianne deck. While not something I would ever bring to a tournament, it's really fun to play casually since Reptiliannes have decent card advantage.

[@anasazmi8554]

I feel like a retrain of the Field Spell should do the trick. Perhaps a combination of Venom Swamp & Magical Citadel of Endymion, since Citadel also recycles counters when cards with Spell Counters are destroyed & you can also protect it from destruction as long as there's a Spell Counter. There's a reason why Spell Counter decks are still relevant today, and Citadel is, I believe, one of them.

[@SirNilooo]

I actually used the field spell card in a burn deck that I had when I used to play Duel Links. I definitely had a lot of people rage quitting 😂😂 Very Toxic deck.