Gen 4 Timing Tuning, Dialing In The Spark Advance For Max Power!

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[@cdaviswayservice]

Thank you for your dedication and hard work helping everyone understand what's going on. Very informative!

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@bigworm84]

Thank you! Everything in this vid worked like a charm.

[@kolemieux]

Thanks for keeping up the outstanding videos, they are very much appreciated!!!

[@cwood9808]

Thanks for the great work mate, Your channel rocks it.

[@yahoodi1215]

Great video. I have been trying to work on a partial throttle popping sound I was getting and could not figure it out until saw this video. And then I realized it was my ECT table.

[@MODOORTEK]

Great info, Thanks!

[@BulliKid]

Thanks for these videos.

[@brandonjenkins9313]

GRG! Showing us there are awesome people in this world hoping to share good information just to help others! Thank you for the time and dedication you show to the garage! ( I know how much time I spend just watching ) I my cam is in route and so is my GRG MERCH! I’m sure the car will run awesome and be safe thanks to the fundamentals I have learned mainly from here!

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Thanks for the support! See you on the live stream!

[@aalzahrani181]

Thank you for these explanations I hope to explain about gen v and what is the difference between gen iv in hptuner

[@BigEbikesports]

This channel should have 1 million plus subscribers and likes! Thank you for being a great teacher and sharing such great knowledge!

[@TheChrisey]

He wasn't explaining the part where "how do you know you can't handle anymore timing?" correctly. The limitation of the engine itself is not knock related. Knock is a fuel quality limitation. If you were to run on say Ethanol or very high octane petrol, you will pretty much always be able to reach MBT. Too much timing and no knock will instead decrease performance since the engine has to work against itself.

[@natelittle1243]

I have hp tuners and I have been watching this channel just learning everything I can.

[@eduardrg5822]

thank you great video

[@thomasjohnson1142]

Thanks for teaching us how to achieve more power but how to safely use it as well. ABT!!

[@lonniesanchez2732]

Thanks man building some confidence to fix my tune thanks!

[@swisstyphoon1]

Thanks for all your great videos. I already learned alot from watching them. How do you smooth the timing table if you only adjust certain areas? Greetings from Switzerland

[@elishaleonard7869]

By the way still watching and loving every min of it!!!

[@pcmfrenzy1089]

Again, another great video. I was taught the same way through the tuning school. Great information and well put together. Although I personally think you should have touched base with logging real knock vs. fake knock. I was tuning a car that was giving tip in knock, Found a bad engine mount. Also had a exhaust hitting on a different car causing fake knock. Maybe this could be an idea for a new video... Thanks for the time you've spent on these videos.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

I'll add it to the list!

[@MrSiDeWaYs240]

2 years later ..over 58,xxx 😎👌

[@geoffreysills194]

I got MASSIVE power gain on my 08 3900 V6 disable iat spark table and set high and low octane tables to 16.5 degrees from 3400 upp and boom have fun

[@ssbrutal]

Hello GRG I am posting my comment on this video. By the way thank you for everything that you do. Because of you I have a 14 sec 6cyl Camaro N/A

[@busarob1969]

New to hp tuners, Just getting the head around the different tables and the way the factory has gone about setting up These tables, The car is a 2005 v6 3.6 GMH or Aussie Gm, Holden Commodore , with the alloytec 3.6 Ltr. It’s tune was horrible , car 280,000 klms, it had bad narrow band sensors, Basically , ran off the narrow band sensors, 14.7 almost every where Until after 75% load and 3800 rpm, at that point went straight to 10.5-1 afr. Using a Lm2 innovate wide band hocked up To a Mpv12+ pro hp tuners unit. Two days of watching your vids, I have 12.5 full load, 14.7 CL. And it now progressively goes down to 12.5 afr as you increase load. Until watching this video, all I have done is adjust base map correction tables , to lower KR numbers Once sorted I played with the Kr percentage table a small bit, until I am having very little KR , logging up to a max of -2 degrees of KR Basically in the cruise area of the map. They have two base ignitions maps , depending on how the inlet cams have advanced. I really didn’t want to mess with those maps. Anyway great work, as I get some more seat time with Hp Tuners I get more confidence, The way your setting up the scan tables makes tuning very easy. I normally preference live tuneable systems , just didn’t want to fit a aftermarket ecu to a run around 2005 model car. One I hope to turbo charge, for hill climbs , some track work and 1/8 mile drag racing. Nothing crazy, 14 psi, intercooler just a fun car to drive and some to fix when it breaks, hobby car to Keep me occupied in retirement. My background ground is in performance engine building and tuning. Engine and chassis dyno’s, cars and bikes, retired in 2010, Came off a drag bike at 100 mph, oil on track that was missed by track officials. So not built or tuned any thing since 2009 . Loving your videos .

[@avathecockatoo494]

Just bought another t shirt and sticker excited foe it

[@Mo-sf7wc]

I think it's cool you're putting these videos out but for others learning be careful. Timing is something you really need to be careful with. Also know that raising your timing and depending on knock sensors is a very bad idea. Things such as long tubes, thin short tubes, cams etc effect how the knock sensor reads. It's safest to use something like knock ears to listen for real pinging or knock otherwise you could slowly be killing your motor. Also spark or cylinder airmass is a calculation. If your VE / MAF are not 100 percent dialed in you will log knock in the wrong areas. Also, your timing won't be referenced correctly. Their is way more too it than adjusting your timing up and backing it down. Using this method for stock unmodified motor is okay to find problem areas but again, be smart before raising your timing. Virtual Dyno could be used if you don't have access to a Dyno to help find best timing too. Goat Rope - hope this doesn't offend you as I don't mean it too. I've seen a lot of people make poor decisions when it comes to tuning.

[@bravepixil]

Can you make a video about false knock? and how it shows on the graph.

[@Qahtani99]

Dear Goat I had swap my car engine blocks only from 4.8 to 6.0 vortic gmc , subsequently i had engine sound low torque low speed Did spark settings play a role here

[@JimBob-wy7tl]

Im interested in getting the timing advance while cruising to its most efficient point for complete fuel burn and hopefully best fuel mileage. I thought i remember reading somewhere a while back about using engine vacuum for tuning this. Thanks a ton for all of the videos...and I dont think Ive ever caught your name in any of your videos.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

They call me.. Tuner Hood! Giving all the tuning intimation away for free! I'll add it to the list!

[@LeesSpeedshop]

Do you work on spark and knock before or after the maf and speed density tuning?

[@precisiononeserviceselectr6105]

I noticed after adding some degrees of timing I'm not seeing knock yet being conservative however I think my long term fuel trims have leaned out a bit... douse that sound right? If so should I stop and go do some VE and maf tuning or is there another route? Thanks!

[@scottlvrz]

What do you do if you’re dealing with something that doesn’t have a knock sensor? I know this is a different ballgame but it’s overall the same concept. I have a Honda sxs pioneer 1,000 to be exact. I have a Dynojet with power core software to make custom tunes. I want to play with tuning timing and tip in pw for more bottom end performance.

[@salvatorehayes2753]

If Adjusting Timing Wouldn't You Add 2 Deg Where Your Working , Log It, Subtract The Knock You Run Into And Then Again Add 2 Degrees Timing In Area You Are Working In. So That You Bring Up Your Timing Every Where. Then Pull 1 Deg In Area From "Bleeding Edge" Of Timing For Safety. Once It's Dialed In You Should See Knock In Every Cell You Hit Correct?

[@ryancrisp6786]

4k subscribers? A year later, almost 38k subs! Great work!

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Thanks! 😃

[@sc6015]

8 months later about to hit 54k subscribers.

[@TheSundaeDrive]

When I add one degree of timing to my '17 C7 Stingray (LT1) the car starts pulling timing like crazy. I added the degree from 0.33g @ 1k RPM all the way to 1.28g @ 8192 (I know it doesn't hit these cells but just went all the way with it). With the factory tune it usually doesn't pull much timing. Sometimes 2 to 3 degrees from 5k to 6500rpm... But when I add a degree to the table it starts pulling 7 degrees and sometimes more. It hits 9 - 10 degrees of KR. I messed with some other tables such as the *Octane Learn Up* and *Burst Knock Retard*. I've also tried leaning out the PE table a bit. The only mod I have is an Attack Blue air filter. The weirdest thing is... if I put the timing table back to normal, the car still pulls a ton of timing BUT if I flash back to the factory tune, it goes back to normal and barely pulls any timing. It is very disheartening. I am logging all of the spark advance PIDS (ECT, IAT, EGR) and none of them are adding anything. I tried zero'ing the tables out too just to make sure... What could I be doing wrong? I can't figure out why the KR is so extreme

[@c4love]

Love the content GRG #IMYOURNUM#1FAN

[@fasnuf]

I had to use MAF cylinder airmass to get it to show the knock in all the rows. If I used just cylinder airmass, only the top row would populate. weird. I'm a MAF tune.

[@bigj7807]

You ever zero out the burst knock?

[@coolguydpc89]

Will you be doing some SCT software turning down the road?

[@MichaelJohnson-sh8bd]

Hey can you zero out the Catalytic heating table? If you have you catalytic converter deleted

[@HKla001]

KOOL

[@jeffreyglaser8515]

Do you know if this program works also for Honda F12x Jetski's?

[@slipnot70chaoschoppers]

Hey. I like your videos. They helped a lot. However. I seem to have a few different parameters and some issues I can’t find info on. Im trying to find out if my throttle is actually opening all the way and staying open. Another issue is I have converter flare when I touch the throttle. I also have some shifting issues that it will hit the rev limiter before I shift. Anyways. If I send you my tune and a bunch of logs would you be able to go through them and share with others? I have a twin turbo 2017 5.3 silverado with meth injection. Thanks

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Check out the patreon, that's how your can get tune assistance. Thanks for watching!

[@flexer83]

Thanks for ur vid bro,i just came back after recording some datalog for my yukon. I just wanna ask how can i get rid of knock memory ?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Not sure I follow, what do you mean by knock memory?

[@J2daK]

Like u said "Hit the like button and you will learn to tune"....its working. Question... '09 G8 GT my HIGH OCT table has "SPARK AIRMASS not cylinder airmass like ur table" theres no PID for spark airmass, is cylinder airmass the same? thanks in advance

[@brandonr9918]

Same issue here.

[@7tronic145]

hi guy, in my case tahoe 5.3 the KR does not work, when opening VCM this window does not show any value! can it be disabled?

[@CBZ406]

How much of this can be applied to a Gen 3 Hemi?

[@rileymills7749]

In ur videos u title tuning different generations of chevys. Are the concepts still the same or does it change from generation to generation

[@BigMatt302]

When tuning timing, are you still in open loop, or is this done after all maf tuning is done and 02 sensors are reenabled?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

After your done with the fuel, you can set all that back into motion.

[@kevingarrett6280]

I noticed you didn’t touch basis on fuel? Is it safe to add timing without adding fuel? I understand when doing street tuning you add timing till knock appears, but when dealing with Flex Fuel it takes a lot for it to “knock” in fact it’s possible to lift heads before it knocks. Is there away to tell which places that the heads are likely to lift with too much timing?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Check the MBT tables, they are an indication of where things are going to go bad by advancing too much

[@blairbarham6532]

Do you go back and smooth the graph any after subtracting from area's. I logged and subtracted several times but it gave me some peaks and valleys. Should I go back and smooth the peaks down to the valleys. Where I subtracted timing and smooth it out?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Yeah, I interpolate out from the areas, but you can smooth them also. You want the timing table to have smooth transitions or it will cause driving issues like surging.

[@jeromelaurent6763]

A bit late !!! But what about the « fuse pull » on gen 5 Camaro ? Myth ? How to tell your car run on low octane table ?

[@joesautorepair9518]

I have a 06 gto 6speed and can’t get my maf error table to show anything. I do have the wideband hooked up and fed into scanner. I have watched your video at least 50 times. It has a cai, no cats, headers and mid pipe, tick sns stage 2 cam, springs, pushrods, and very frustrated. Please HELP?

[@morganblackwell5027]

Thanks for the Video! I am a complete newbie. My High Octane Table shows Spark Airmass instead of Cylinder Airmass. There is no option to log with Spark Airmass. Are these the same thing? I logged Cylinder Airmass and it only populated data into the first row (0.08g).

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Same thing

[@jeremysketoe3257]

Can you please help me i did exactly what you was saying but when i logged a drive i noticed that im only getting data at the row what is the issue

[@jjk1668]

Hi just a couple of questions does a larger cam typically require less timing than usual ?would subtracting 5 on the hole table be enough to then do some logging and modifying or would you go less ? and while in idle the timing is going up and down is it because the cylinder airmass and rpm fluctuations would you say put 15 deg in those cells around idle ? Thanks

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Cam usually requires more timing down low for sure, in idle shoot for 15-20 and if you're having issues reaching out it's because your airflow is off. If there timing is low you have too much airflow and vice versa, but remember that isn't not actual airflow but calculated

[@jjk1668]

Cool so does the way it calculates need to be changed to accommodate for the cam and how does it make those changes , do they get affected running sd tune only thanks man

[@rileykleine2921]

Is there a way I could pm you? I’m having trouble getting any readings for cylinder airmass, it’s logging everything in the first column for the cylinder airmass.

[@josealeman1992]

Im trying to do the graph on my scanner for timing advance but on my high octane table its showing my row axis it read spark airmass instead of cylinder airmass like yours, how would i change my row axis reading on my high octane to cylinder airmass (g)?

[@brandonr9918]

Same issue I’m having, probably a rookie mistake. Lol

[@worldwideindustrialsolutio5774]

Is it best to reset ltft every time you make an adjustment for the timing?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

No, just let it learn as normal

[@trevorwalker4884]

I did a dod delete an vvt delete on a 2013 5.3 but it is hard to start how do I fix the problem

[@vodney06]

Now from 0-600 rpms starting at 0.48g of air down to 1.36g .... Do we jump that up out of the negatives if we are running a stall. To help with the low end?.... Thanks for all u do BTW

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Yeah, just keep an eye on you knock when stalling it

[@vodney06]

Ok thanks

[@jessepauls7787]

First off great videos, and thank you. I have bring my tunning up and up this is after calibrating the maf for a otr air intake. The problem is say at giving gas up a hill but anyway must be a certain load 50% is where it was at on scanner I run real lean and little bit lean just cruising at say 60. Any help would be sweet. It was doing it the tune before I just added timming?. Thank you

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Jesse, you've got to make sure during the tune you're hitting those high loads, best is to find a big hill, try and put it in your highest gear and get as much WoT as possible. It can be tough at times to correctly fill the table, the rest is just hand smoothing to predict where it should be were you to go beyond you're highest threshold.

[@jessepauls7787]

@@GoatRopeGarage so should I calibrate my maf? Would that fix the problem if I redid that with spark table where it's at now? I'm not getting any knock. Only place is in the few cells. When subtracting the knock it's ends up out of place like it go's for example 17,19,22,17,18,25 or something like that. At wot in 3rd gear at 5500rpm I'm running 8.3. I'm super new to this and you are my Sensei on Tuning.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@jessepauls7787 yeah, you want to fix that lean spot, the knock hopefully goes away when the fueling is correct

[@jessepauls7787]

@@GoatRopeGarage thanks alot.

[@jessepauls7787]

@@GoatRopeGarage so I found what the problem was. I have to maf bars graphs. There is a overlap at 5800 they both had different number . I match them to the same number blended them and bam no longer lean.

[@Buster10211995]

I have a 14 silverado 5.3l and im getting knock in my low octane stock tune

[@GoatRopeGarage]

On 87? That normal

[@oldpilotic7233]

I have gen 4 GMC ,6.2 E38, my Main Spark set to 18 at wot but my scanner show me 28 ! with bout 12d Knock ? what is my issue ! is my engine going bad ? or car ECU PCM> my truck is stock PLEASE I NEED HELP

[@thatmetallicredc6207]

Quick question I just installed a new intake manifold and a 102mm tb. Tuned for the maf and started tuning for knock. But when I let off the gas the rpm hangs and the car really struggles too decel, same thing at idle as well hangs at 1200rpm then drops too my set idle speed. Could this have anything too do with the high octane/low octane table? Read a ton of forums and I can’t figure it out.

[@st0ney_m0ntana]

Sound like a vacuum issue

[@MALR7]

one question if i may now when tuner says that we are running 20* of timing is that relative to the increase to stock timing or actually running 20* of timing ?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Taking about your total timing

[@MALR7]

Goat Rope Garage but in the table there are some values that exceed 30* is that correct and what does refer to ? Thank you for your prompt reply bro ☺️

[@Ashley_Ash116]

I know this video is a few months old but when I'm in the eng tab and looking at timing I dont have all the options as u did? Like the high/low octane and so forth? Why is that?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Depends on your platform, different generations have different options. You working on a Gen III motor?

[@cajunmetabolic7504]

@1:34 How to tune in a Goat Lope? I want my truck to goat lope! 🤣

[@thestartofus8120]

Do you save tunes on multiple hard drives or thumb drives just in case your laptop breaks ?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

I save an occasional one remotely, basically anything that I consider done, such as when I finish MAF tuning, etc.

[@JimBob-wy7tl]

Best place to save them is to email them to yourself. Your emails data storage is endless.

[@mudargamer]

Keep making these videos and tuners will be out of business by the end of the year 😂

[@johnlaprise2196]

Does this video work with Gen 4 6.2 vvt timing. I'm about to try it. Just wanna make sure it will work.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Yep

[@mudargamer]

you added 2 degrees and then took out 2 degrees, does that mean timing tables are already maxed out from factory? if so, what other ways to make more power?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

In some cases you won't be able to add more timing in different areas so you are going to be at advance timing. After that you're going to have to start doing mods, run E85, etc.

[@EMSTech-df7gl]

Ethanol burns faster than gas, not slower. If you have an engine that is not knock-limited on gas and start running e85 you will need LESS timing than before. Love the content as always

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Promise man, ethanol burns slower than gas, burn rate of gas at stoich is .34ms where as e85 is .38ms

[@elishaleonard7869]

Can i use engine load instead of cylinder air mass? That is how my graph is set up for my vvt high feature in a 2010 v6 camaro

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Yep, use what your table uses

[@elishaleonard7869]

I believe I have to set up 4 tables and 4 graphs. min exh min int / min exh max int /max exh min int /max exh max int

[@GoatRopeGarage]

I did a video on a similar setup, should help out kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2O1XpmIrtBsfqs

[@elishaleonard7869]

@@GoatRopeGarage thank you!

[@mikeadams6172]

So i'm not sure if this question has been asked yet but, i'm building the histogram for a 2015 Camaro 1le and my timing tables are RPM vs Spark Air Mass. Which parameter is the correct one to log the date on the row axis?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Cylinder airmass

[@mikeadams6172]

@@GoatRopeGarage Thank you! BTW your videos are awesome you do an amazing job on explaining what were tuning and why were doing it keep up the good work you've taught me everything I know so far about custom tuning.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@fasnuf]

Should the histogram be on average or max?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Average

[@chrisjenkins1989]

So what do you do with the timing advance logs?

[@Knackersjewels]

You use it to make sure it's doing what is commanded, and isn't being affected by other corrections

[@jevineaster3448]

So I have a question can you do a walk through on cam tuning at idle and idle with ac on?

[@brianthomas4532]

What about smoothing and interpolating the timing table?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

I would hand smooth it to blend from your active areas into the area where you're not hitting cells.

[@brianthomas4532]

Goat Rope Garage i do that. As it follows the table down going through rpm isnt it bad to go from like 18 to 21 then back down to 17 or whatever

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@brianthomas4532 yeah, you want to keep things smooth

[@pcmfrenzy1089]

I was taught to keep cells from jumping in large numbers. I like to shoot for a 3 to 5 transition between cells.

[@hubach3079]

Hey man I’m only getting readings in the bottom row 1.32 of all of the rpms but nowhere else on the table, any idea?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

You're not logging your row parameter

[@hubach3079]

Goat Rope Garage ahh yes thank you! Something so simple cause me some headache there for about an hour or so😂

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@hubach3079 Ask me how I knew the answer...

[@Osiris94ej1]

For some reason I have gone and set up my scanner per the video for the histograms and it does not graph. It only fills the 0.08 g row with "0.0". Haven't been able to figure out what I did wrong. It was working at one point and then wasn't.

[@Osiris94ej1]

I think I got it figured out. Err well it's actually graphing. I had to use the 8cyl airmass math pid for the airmass calculation. 11 gen4 tahoe.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

There should be a cylinder airmass you can use but the calculated should work too

[@Osiris94ej1]

@@GoatRopeGarage For some reason with cyl airmass it wouldn't graph. Just the top row.

[@DrFiero]

@4:16 I know you know what you meant to say... but you said "pre detonation" but you meant to say "pre ignition or detonation". Just for the possibly confused newbies! Lotta terms to learn.

[@aalzahrani181]

How can I make backfire?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Get rid of cats and turn off dfco

[@aalzahrani181]

@@GoatRopeGarage I already did, I think I need to adjust spark table am I right?

[@hassanabas1549]

After getting rid of cats and delaying dfco let's say I want more flames then i would need to richen my maf table we need a video there on how to log and richen these certain areas vacuum areas so we can have some beatiful flames

[@MODOORTEK]

Can you shed some light on what you where doing when you added 5 to cell hits when laying out the spark retard table.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

That puts a limit on the table saying that you want at least 5 points of data before it shows up to make sure you don't have bad outlying data.

[@BluRaven1]

This guy is completely wrong don't listen to him... *sneaks away to sell $400 tune*