Gen3 omni 8 vs Photonis Echo

Gen3 omni 8 with Carson glas compared to Photonis Echo with Carson glas.
Gen 3 spec
Omni 8
Echo specs
Gain - 9964
Lp/mm - 71
SNR - 27.55
EBI - 1.3

[@Trouble_2-1]

New to the channel. Thanks for putting in good work with NVGs. With ITAR and limited but growing interest in NVG in EU your channel is a rare gem. Especially interesting for someone who is looking to pick his first nods. Skål från Göteborg! :)

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

Kul o höra! 😍

[@Trouble_2-1]

@@EagleBayNightSupplies Får man fråga var du skaffade Photonis ECHO och gen 3 tuberna? Vet att AGM har ju en europeisk filial med gen2+ prylar men annars verkar det svårt ..

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

@@Trouble_2-1 Min ena echo tub är ifrån ACT in black som jag köpte ifrån FalconClaw. Min andra echo tub är direkt ifrån Photonis med Carson glas och housing. Både AGM och omni 8 tuberna är ifrån någon Facebook grupp.

[@clementska5154]

@@Trouble_2-1 you can look at falconclaw nighttec or baller tactical they have echo powered nods in Europe

[@masterjo_6703]

i think it would be very interesting to see a comparison of the photonis echo with onmi 8 with a LLI purple/white filter on it, since it gives a similar color, and imo reduces grain a bit

[@Kaotix_music]

they do reduce noise...like by ALOT

[@wazzdawg]

If only the Echo had more gain it would be the perfect nods - getting a pair anyways in the future and videos like these just keep hyping me up. Great video 👍

[@agentorange268]

@wazzdawg169 Make sure you get green phosphor if you want more gain, according to photonis, green phos. has higher maximum gain, i believe the highest i've seen on a WHITE PHOS. is 12000 max gain, and for GREEN PHOS. it was 15000 max gain.

[@Tattlebot]

@@agentorange268 It's not so simple. Scotopic peripheral vision is more sensitive to the WP spectrum than green. P43 phosphor is spectrally monochromatic. I've read that this monochromatic light, while easy for lenses, makes it difficult for the eye to focus.

[@cpm-3374]

If you have time, please make a video in rural area, to see how they perform outside. Many thanks!!!

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

I'll fix one later tonight. Forest? Open fields?

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

The video is now up.

[@cpm-3374]

The omni 8 is brighter, it is more usable in lower light conditions

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

Yes it's brighter, but it's not showing particularly more details compared to the echo when looking throu the units

[@arconium2571]

Iirc p22 (green phosphor) is way brighter than wp. That is the case with XD-4 tubes, but it could also be the case with omni 8 and echo

[@Ayattar55]

WP vs GP is not all. GP vs WP gives you up to 20% more gain. This is why my 1900 FOM Photonis GP tube has 11000 EU gain. Echo WP tubes of similar eee... "class" have around 9000 gain usually. Here though, its difference in technology - minimum gain for omni 8 is 15000 EU gain (or 50000 US gain, conversion rate is about x3,14) I've also an omni VII tube (Litton M890A-901, for anvis) which has only 1450 FOM, but 20500 EU gain (so almost L3 Filmless level). That's almost double of what my Photonis Echo has, and in a really old tube on top of that (It's from 2009), but at a price of noticeably worse resolution (79 vs 64 lp/mm) and a bit "milkier" image, with less contrast. Snr is about the same (24 vs 23). I'd pick my Litton over my Echo only below appx 5% moon (or moonless starless, or moonless dense forest). Somehow it also makes really shit footage with basic recording devices, like phones, or pocket cameras.

[@danielh5397]

Photonis is usable for sure. But gen 3 is just going to be noticeably better and easier on the eyes for situational awareness.

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

Do you own both tubes? Have you compared both tubes hands on? Gen3 is brighter, but you see just as much details through the omni 8 as the Echo tube with the naked eye. Check out my other videos for more comparison in different scenarios and lightning. Turn up the brightness to max on the unit ur watching this on😊

[@Kaotix_music]

ill say the only difference between an Echo Tube (what I have now) and an Omni 8 Gen 3 tube (have one coming in this weekend after using one 2 weeks ago during a night course) is...Gen 3 is just brighter. It's just better in *EXTRREME* low light. Thats really all. That might be important to some, to others it's not. On an overcasted no moon night with zero light polution, my Echo did perfectly fine. It certainly wasn't as bright as others but it did the job perfectly. But on a night like that under canopy? Thats where Photonis will start to become almost unusable

[@Mr_Glenn]

​@@Kaotix_music Even gen 3 will start to struggle in those conditions. There comes a point for both of them when they will need IR. I have a 2337 FOM Echo, and it rocks. Indoors without light and it still does pretty well, with the tiny bit of light coming through the windows.

[@markanthonypar-wise1499]

​@@Kaotix_music Exactly. Got a photonis echo tube from Steele industries. And I've asked some night vision companies about my tube and showed them my specs and they it's a very solid tube. LP 68 SNR 30.92 EBI 0.19 FOM 2102

[@Kaotix_music]

@@markanthonypar-wise1499 That SNR and EBI is REALLY good. Although i believe the way Photonis measures EBI, you have to multiple it by Pi so that EBI really is 0.59...which is STILL extremely good! The downfall to photonis as mentioned is their photocathode sensitivity. Its just not as strong as Gen 3 made night vision which is just below a 10,000 gain leel where Gen 3 tubes (specically an omni 8 tube) is between 45.000-175000. You see the major difference in low light but I still recommend photonis to people. If you dont find yourself FAR away from cities or under Canopy alot - Phonotis Echo kicks ass. I on the other hand DO find myself in that alot, so I sold the Echo and kept my Omni 8

[@Tattlebot]

I would prefer it if you render these to greyscale.

[@isaac_h_e]

I don't think this is a fair comparison, an Omni 8 is a tube that matches or exceeds certain US DoD specifications on the other hand a Photonis Echo tube is a drop-off of the G4 production line. For instance G4 specifications require a tube to provide at least 10000 cd/m²/lx gain at 2 x 10¯⁵ lx, as you can see the one shown in the video (as per EkMeK provided information) falls short of this specification as it also falls short of Signal to Noise ratio 27.55 when it should have been between 28 and 30 lp/mm... But EBI... EBI should have typically been around 0.15 μlx and never exceed 0.25 but we got a whopping 1.3... Once more... this is not a fair comparison. By the way, usually NVGs are used with the IR illuminator on when indoors because how light quickly falloff in close quarters, where nods really "shine" is outdoors.

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

You are correct and I agree. Poeple who compare and expect milspec gen3 performance of a commercial spec gen2+ arent that, bright if u ask me. But regarding the ebi, I wrote according to the American standard (ebi 1.3). My specsheets does say ebi 0.13 according to the photonis way of measuring ebi.

[@isaac_h_e]

@@EagleBayNightSupplies Excellent response EkMeK, then I stand corrected. As a owner of two nods (one crappy Armasight Syrius GEN2 and one nice Photonis G4, not an Echo) I'm happy to defend the work of the EU brand (Photonis) which to me is impressive every time that I turn that switch in the middle of a wood with no moon

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

@@isaac_h_e Awesome, I once owned an Armasight sirius QSI. It was absolutely horrible. Now I run duals pvs-14 with 1826 & 1956 Photonis echo tubes. I have a video comparing the Sirius, 1600, 1826 and 1956 FOM echo tubes. Feel free to check it out m8! It's called "Different grades of gen2 nightvision"

[@isaac_h_e]

@@EagleBayNightSupplies Yep I saw your considerable amount of NVG videos, you are putting quite a bit of effort in to it! good job!

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

@@isaac_h_e Thanks, trying my best to show people the differences, pros and cons between different types of tube☺️. Have a nice thanks giving m8

[@sonicnofadz]

image looks better in the photonis...slightly dimmer however

[@TechSavvyOptics]

Gain. the omni 8 has more gain than the WP echo tube.

[@mrfunswitch]

what's the SNR of the omni 8 tube?

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

Omni 8 dosnt have specsheet, they only have to pass the minimum specs for their specific contract which in this case is 25 SNR. Omni 8 tubes are usually highly above their mimimum specs. This omni 8 tube have been compared to a 2200+ FOM filmless and it was doing decent.

[@EagleBayNightSupplies]

Keep in mind that this is a dark basement with only a starlight sky outside the windows as it's only lightsource. The windows in the video are so dark that they are not visible to the naked eye. It's extremely extremely dark.

[@offffofof]

Usually 28

[@blackcrosser]

Well.. gen 3 is clearly superior in low light conditions.. I tried several photonis tubes (xr5-echo-4g) and none of them perform as good as my thin filmed gen 3 in low lights.. to be comparable you have to use old gen 3 units with specs worse than Omni viii.. everything that is pretty recent is superior to gen 2+/photonis tubes in low lights. Full stop.. that’s my Personal experience. questionable for sure but that’s it..