Genelec 8381A | Launch and overview of our new Adaptive Point Source Main Monitor

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Genelec Official Channel

Genelec Official Channel

Күн бұрын

Introducing The Main Ones. Genelec launches and gives an overview of the new 8381A Adaptive Point Source Main Monitor. genelec.com/8381A
Perceive every sonic detail with the new Genelec 8381A Adaptive Point Source Main Monitor, offering true-to-life sound level and dynamics and an ultra-wide full-range response. Liberate the way you listen in your space with immaculate imaging both on and off-axis, near or far, thanks to point source characteristics that extend below midrange and advanced room adaption from our Smart Active Monitoring (SAM) Technology and Genelec Loudspeaker Manager (GLM) software.
Keep all the benefits of free-standing monitor placement, for a simple, zero-hassle installation. The 8381A is main monitoring as you’ve never known it before. Ideal for high sound pressure level applications in medium to large control rooms in professional recording, mixing and mastering studios, and for the most demanding high-fidelity listening applications.
Find out more, visit genelec.com/8381A
00:00 - Start of the launch
01:05 - Unveiling The Main Ones 8381A
01:25 - A basic overview
03:04 - The 8381A presentation video
04:04 - In detail with R&D Director Aki Mäkivirta
14:28 - In detail with Principle Engineer Jussi Väisänen
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Пікірлер: 133
@tiagomedeiros13
@tiagomedeiros13 Жыл бұрын
I loved when he said: No need for a subwoofer. The thing has a size of 3 big subwoofers :) I'm pretty sure it's amazing
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
It actually has 2 subwoofers included in the system with 2x2x15 inch woofers. So of course one does not need extra subwoofers in most cases....
@manny_f
@manny_f Жыл бұрын
@@morlidor Yes but it weighs 200 kg!! Obviously aimed at the very pro segment. Even if I could afford these, I would not be able to get them up the stairs.
@ericpmoss
@ericpmoss Жыл бұрын
haha -- I thought "you don't even need a room -- you could live inside that thing". Of course, I want them. :)
@greganikin7003
@greganikin7003 3 ай бұрын
You get them delivered and then you start building a room around it
@djcoimbra
@djcoimbra Жыл бұрын
Starts at 4:49. Amazing release, Genelec is always pushing the envelope. 8341s changed my life and improved a lot of my work and knowledge about audio. Hope i can listen to this monsters someday!
@videosuperhighway7655
@videosuperhighway7655 11 ай бұрын
Yeah 8341s are amazing.
@andyhardwickmusiccomposer
@andyhardwickmusiccomposer Жыл бұрын
Astonishing work! Can't wait to hear them in action.
@joseluishernandezseptien
@joseluishernandezseptien Жыл бұрын
Amazing! Thank you for making this type of speaker possible. Can't wait to listen to the 8381A one day!
@IntiniOfficial
@IntiniOfficial Жыл бұрын
It is so refreshing to see research turning into such a beautiful product. I use and love Genelec monitors. Congratulations on your achievement!
@soulpath1
@soulpath1 Жыл бұрын
which ones? I got the 8361a and W371a recently. If only this was out by then lol
@IntiniOfficial
@IntiniOfficial Жыл бұрын
@@soulpath1 I know how you feel. But the 8361A and the W371a are amazing as well. I have been using 8050As and 7070A for some time now and they have been fantastic. I can't wait to hear the new models!
@jukkanieminen4026
@jukkanieminen4026 Жыл бұрын
Incredible innovation Ones again🤩 You really are on the edge, other manufactures just have to try follow your leadership!
@allenglishknives6823
@allenglishknives6823 Жыл бұрын
6000w and 200kg! Epic! Thank you Genelec 💪🏻👍🏻
@manny_f
@manny_f Жыл бұрын
That's a lot of juice. My home is wired for 4400 W tops. I'll stick with my 8351Bs.
@frankfarago2825
@frankfarago2825 Жыл бұрын
Actually, it's more like gross.
@camploismyalias
@camploismyalias 7 ай бұрын
If you need that much watts you are doing something wrong.
@mikeelkios436
@mikeelkios436 Жыл бұрын
Utterly amazing . Congratulations Genelec . 6:51
@gavinlamp
@gavinlamp Жыл бұрын
oh my, YUS! can't wait to find a place that has some so I can hear them
@ephjaymusic
@ephjaymusic Жыл бұрын
Wow! Those are impressive looking beasts! I've been absolutely thrilled with my 8040's in my smaller studio. Genelec are by far some of the best monitors I've listened to.
@absak
@absak Жыл бұрын
Thanks genelec
@thegroove2000
@thegroove2000 8 ай бұрын
Serious stuff. Well done.
@fabianbourgeais5784
@fabianbourgeais5784 Жыл бұрын
Merci !!!!!!!!!!!!
@jimmypenrose1401
@jimmypenrose1401 Жыл бұрын
Looks magnificent and I bet it sounds even better; if I ever win Mega-Millions I might just get a pair. I can only imagine what they cost - not inexpensive by any means...but worth it if you can afford it. I love Genelecs, they're definitely among the finest speakers on the market. But there's also no question that they definitely induce some pretty serious sticker shock. It's going to be pretty hard for any home studio enthusiast or audiophile to justify the cost of monitors like that. These are certain to be way out of the reach of that market. It's another matter if you have the disposable income of, say, Peter Gabriel - or if you're running a really busy commercial studio/ production facility...but even that isn't really a safe bet these days. It's been my experience with the management of various studios that it's getting a little difficult for even the biggest facilities to justify the purchase of gear that competes with the price of a new automobile on a per-unit basis. Unfortunately budgets are just not what they used to be.
@coardcreatif
@coardcreatif Жыл бұрын
I'd like to play bust down thotiana on it to test bass response. Great job Genelec!
@peternorth6782
@peternorth6782 Жыл бұрын
Best monitors period. My 8050b and 1032A have been all over the world with me. I'm moving to Finland in Jully and would love to come a look around the factory.
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
There probably are hundreds if not thousands of just as good monitorspeakers out there so no! These are without no doubt really really good speakers but probably not the absolute best monitors on the market and certainly not very good value for money. 'But hey if you like Genelecs sound have a good large room and have the money go ahead...
@peternorth6782
@peternorth6782 Жыл бұрын
@@morlidor Are you ok. Did you feel the need to make pointless post of the day due to boredom? Big world out there, lots to enjoy and luxuriate in.
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
@@peternorth6782 Sorry if I hurt your feelings Peter. But your original statement was infinitely more pointless than my reply.. No monitor is the worlds best. Have you even listened to these new Genelecs? I have no doubt that they are really good, but not the best on everything. And kinda lousy value. As there is no problem finding similar systems for around 20-30K. Including roomcorrection and amplification.
@peternorth6782
@peternorth6782 Жыл бұрын
@@morlidor Hurt my feelings? Ah, your projecting. Seems like you do a lot of that. Off you trott then and haunt another thread.
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
@@peternorth6782 Not projecting at all as most people probably understand. Just reacting to your extreme hyping of a speakersystem you have not even listenened to!
@campbellread1918
@campbellread1918 Жыл бұрын
wholly sh%+. Next Level! Well done Genelec, quite an achievement.
@KimmoJaskari
@KimmoJaskari Жыл бұрын
Perhaps a bit more accurate to say these don't need a *third* subwoofer, considering that's one unit stacked on top of what can only be described as a subwoofer. Even though they come as a set. :) Looks like a great unit. Nowhere remotely in my price range, but seem like some fantastic speakers.
@JamesWilliams-gf8gm
@JamesWilliams-gf8gm Жыл бұрын
Good work, Looks amazing, but far out of my price range for home use but never say never lol.
@mfgt4595
@mfgt4595 Жыл бұрын
Can't beat a pair of Peaveys, black widows. Hi sys 2, spot on , never let me down.
@emirsalihovic4869
@emirsalihovic4869 Жыл бұрын
Fantastiše
@laynehoward2870
@laynehoward2870 Жыл бұрын
I'm guessing I'll have to sell my kidneys to afford it. But I'm sure they're worth it. I've been using Genelec for many years. Love them.
@TheRoyrules88
@TheRoyrules88 Жыл бұрын
I was wondering if this design might be inspired by ,Tekton Audio floorstanders!Well,I'm glad it's a Genelec!But,what if we used a co axial tweeter in the bass driver,and surround that with the 5 inch custom midranges that you guys designed,but keeping the dual opposing 15 inch sub bass drivers intact?My idea is to couple the treble and bass drivers, mutually balancing sibilance and warmth,while keeping the midrange discrete,yet placing it around the high-low co axials.Savvy?
@Wookie32812
@Wookie32812 Жыл бұрын
Can't wait to go to a club that has a pair of theses in the VIP lounge
@isc4915
@isc4915 Жыл бұрын
How does the adaptive tech solve SBIR if it is it be place freely anywhere? What makes this speaker different in performance vs another with trinnov or something like Dutch and Dutch 8C that have even better directivity? I understand that this is a a main monitor with waveguide and constant directivity on both axis, but does the adaptive bit do anything more than just EQ?
@datdudeinred
@datdudeinred Жыл бұрын
Now send a pair to Erin from erin's audio corner. Love that guy & his objective reviews. Even though your customers won't be needing any reviews.
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
DIY alternative 5-10K complete for really good speaker components, filter/processors, boxes, cables and amplifiers. Will of course require lots of work and will probably not be just as good and convenient as this Genelec system. But probably good enough for most studios..
@disklamer
@disklamer Жыл бұрын
Waveguides? custom dome drivers? programmable acoustic filters? Who cares! just grab a bunch of JBL drivers and put them in a MDF case. It can’t be that hard to phase align a 5 way system.
@morlidor
@morlidor Жыл бұрын
@@disklamer Question is if a five way system really is optimal in a studio..
@kelainefes
@kelainefes Жыл бұрын
@@morlidor It is if someone like Genelec makes it my friend. If you have a room big enough to be even able to consider these puppies ofcourse.
@sampledude8846
@sampledude8846 Жыл бұрын
I can't afford them, I can't fit them, but I want them!!!!!!
@luisbranco
@luisbranco Жыл бұрын
😍😍😍😍😍
@johansugarev
@johansugarev Жыл бұрын
Rumored price is 70k euro for a pair.
@borey123xx9
@borey123xx9 21 күн бұрын
Ultimate battle: Genelec 8361A + W371A vs. Genelec 8381A
@SuperNegawsklov
@SuperNegawsklov Жыл бұрын
Interested, maybe 2025 getting a pair !!
@Joel-Monterra
@Joel-Monterra Жыл бұрын
This sounds pretty nice, but I'm still trying to figure out how this adaptive technology works. Is it just by changing the crossover points or do you work with delays when it comes to the quad-array?
@genelec
@genelec Жыл бұрын
Two lowest crossover frequencies are chosen by the optimization algorithm. Goal is to dodge the problems caused by room acoustics (= dips in the frequency response). This is possible, because bottom and front woofer are in different location in the room, thus exciting the room in different way. This technology was introduced with W371.
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
@@genelec What is the latency when this 8381A is fully optimised in its full capacity and highest quality?
@genelec
@genelec 10 ай бұрын
@@rabarebra Please find product information from the following link: assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/5anHfgwt8apDH23eiSVnYQ/76ac95fbb52dfa46edf6ad450778cdaf/Genelec_8381A_Brochure.pdf If there is missing something you are interested of, could you be kind and send us e-mail at support@genelec.com and we are happy to help! ☺
@parttime9070
@parttime9070 Жыл бұрын
I don't know what 70K sounds like, but I bet it's good..
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
Is it only 70K Euro's per monitor?
@mikeryan7012
@mikeryan7012 10 ай бұрын
Would it be possible to put these in the studio where the current mains are soffit mounted?
@genelec
@genelec 10 ай бұрын
These products are not designed to be soffit mounted, but you could of course also have these in your room. We would be happy to discuss more in details with you, if you can send us e-mail at support@genelec.com 🙂
@fredygump5578
@fredygump5578 Жыл бұрын
I'm impressed by how careful they are to NOT actually say how the adaptive system works! Is it concern that people aren't ready for it? I think I have a pretty good idea how it works..and looking for clues but not really getting any!
@genelec
@genelec Жыл бұрын
All distribution frequencies are mentioned in our public data. If you have any detailed questions, don't hesitate to contact our official support at support@genelec.com and we are happy to help and clarify!
@genelec
@genelec Жыл бұрын
Just received more information from my colleague too, some information that can also be found from the brochure: The Quad Midrange System continues the controlled directivity of the Coaxial Driver in the DCW and maintains its capacity for high SPL. It reproduces lowmidrange audio from the same location as the Coaxial Driver to extend the point source further down in frequency Dome low-midrange drivers have been designed to minimize diffraction creation for coaxial midrange and tweeter radiation. Radiation pattern of the quad drivers is similar to ring radiator with same diameter as the driver spacing.
@fredygump5578
@fredygump5578 Жыл бұрын
@@genelec Yes, thank you. The focus of my curiosity is about controlling room modes in a small room. There are 2 established ways to do. Have you found a 3rd way, or are you using one of the established ways? With multiple low frequency sources spread around a room, you can use strong EQ adjustments to get a consistently flat response throughout a room. Or with low frequency sources close to each other, I have found that delays with minimal to no EQ is particularly effective. Or I suppose you can do a combination of the two.
@disklamer
@disklamer Жыл бұрын
It cannot properly be translated from FInnish. It is käsittämätöntä, which describes the ancient custom of hiding your children from the neighbors to prevent unplanned changes to the number of people in your household.
@fredygump5578
@fredygump5578 Жыл бұрын
@@disklamer In America we have the glomar response---we will neither confirm nor deny. Here the arrangement and capability of the drivers is obvious to anyone. It's the GLM system integrated into the amps that is special. And I'm sure they have patents to protect it. So what is left? Are they afraid of the public acceptance? Maybe the techniques are too new? At some point customers will demand to know how the system works so they can trust that it will work. It's like the way people buy Gore-Tex because they have been sorely disappointed with products that claimed to be water proof, but turned out not to be waterproof at all.
@Tom_the_great
@Tom_the_great Жыл бұрын
Yes please
@weareallbeingwatched4602
@weareallbeingwatched4602 Жыл бұрын
Four midrange domes?! Goodness. These must be loud.
@achrest4194
@achrest4194 Жыл бұрын
These are beautiful. I’m guessing 15-20 k US each
@drex128
@drex128 Жыл бұрын
$75k USD a pair.
@goober-ll1wx
@goober-ll1wx Жыл бұрын
Yay more speakers, just what the world needs....ywan...
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
Speakers are fun!
@jizmtek9820
@jizmtek9820 Жыл бұрын
Speakers look great. This is such a nothing video, you spent 20 minutes talking without explaining a single piece of new technology. I would love to know more details on how the low mid and bass sections work. Those off-axis graphs are very impressive. Give us more data!
@fabianbourgeais5784
@fabianbourgeais5784 Жыл бұрын
Mettre les sous-titres ..........MERCI !!!!!
@djice1804
@djice1804 Жыл бұрын
So y’all don’t wanna discuss the price, which I’m sure deserves a video on it’s own, starting with the type of cabinet used, the electronics, where do you source the materials, etc…😂 🙏🏾
@MootPoot
@MootPoot Жыл бұрын
nice a new speaker i can put in my car
@frankymino8773
@frankymino8773 Жыл бұрын
Yep... No probs! Might just pick me up a pair and stick em straight on to my desk in my bedroom. Just hold on while I reach into my pockets for the cash...... On a more serious note... those mains look like they will shoot transients directly through your body. I would love to hear them in a pro studio. I would even pay to hear them. They stand taller than me lol
@qupeter1224
@qupeter1224 10 ай бұрын
can i build a 13.1 system with 8381? how many of them do i need ? just curious if four of 8381 can achieve best experience than a 13.1 system with 8361.
@genelec
@genelec 10 ай бұрын
If you would have surround system with 8381A, we would recommend to have 8381A speakers as front right, center, and front left and smaller speakers could be used as surrounds. If this would be something actual you would be planning, please reach out to us at support@genelec.com 🙂
@niklassilen4313
@niklassilen4313 Жыл бұрын
So it's either two of these or a Mercedes AMG GLE 53 SUV? :)
@URBANDEPERU
@URBANDEPERU Жыл бұрын
What about the price?
@faithhopelove6945
@faithhopelove6945 Жыл бұрын
70K€ (Pair)
@WillieBloom
@WillieBloom 9 ай бұрын
Made in Finland!? I like that. I like that a lot. Any US/UK/EU product is a welcome change from Made in China. I am making an effort to source my kit from Made in US/UK/EU. No shade directed at South Korea, Japan but I prefer occidental products.
@genelec
@genelec 9 ай бұрын
All Genelec products are designed and manufactured in Iisalmi, Finland since 1978. ♥
@disklamer
@disklamer Жыл бұрын
Not trading in my Auratones just yet :D
@faithhopelove6945
@faithhopelove6945 Жыл бұрын
Seems to be a great Speaker System... but please, first deliver a better Audio Quality here...in thios Movie ((:: sadly its simply on amateur Level..." 😅😆😄
@Pierre-Leloup
@Pierre-Leloup Жыл бұрын
No doubt you can make great sounding monitors ! But I would like to have a taste of it, let's hear some music trought them, you just need some excellent mics and recorder...
@amalgami
@amalgami Жыл бұрын
you make amazing speakers, but unfortunately we do not have best spaces for these speakers. So, i have Gens for over 10 years now, but not able to put them in right space, hence not able to get their worth out.
@kaybhee6
@kaybhee6 11 ай бұрын
we need some cases of beers for this...... u need 4 guys per speaker to lift it huh
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
It's on wheels.
@videosuperhighway7655
@videosuperhighway7655 11 ай бұрын
Thats it. RIP the other audiophile speaker companies 😂
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
😂
@markusnurmi1820
@markusnurmi1820 Жыл бұрын
Ilpo Martikainen oli nero. Itse käyttänyt Genelecin kamoja jo 20 vuotta🙂
@andreemilsen369
@andreemilsen369 Жыл бұрын
🤔 Maybe I do not have to design and build my own speakers when I win the lottery after all🤔 9 of these for the bedlayer, and 7 atmos speakers that can match these from 100hz and up🙊 Might need to win twice 🤣😂🤣
@duncan-rmi
@duncan-rmi Жыл бұрын
"no need for a sub-woofer..." well, no, not when you've got two of these the size of a shed! 😂
@balnc
@balnc Жыл бұрын
Nice , time to sell my house and car ! Can’t wait!!!!!
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
An homeless dragging his 8381A's around in the streets. 😂
@simonirvine1628
@simonirvine1628 Жыл бұрын
Modern Klipsch
@klaymoon1
@klaymoon1 7 ай бұрын
$64k for a pair? I believe Genelec created it as a flagship status - not to make a profit from it. For such a product, a higher price actually helps to distinguish it. And, a higher price deters consumers to buying it, which is what the company want. They won't make money on it anyway. So, the best course of action is to make a marketing opportunity, but sell as least unit as possible. More likely, Genelec produced about 50 pairs for various showroom and some unfortunate sale, but already closed the assembly line for it.
@genelec
@genelec 7 ай бұрын
Price varies slightly country by country. For local pricing we recommend to contact closest Genelec dealer or distributor. The price you mention,, is closer to single unit than pair. 83813A has been just recently launched, and there is no plans to close it manufacturing anytime soon, the story has just began. Genelec products usually stays on production line for very long time! ☺ In example, if you would compare our earlier product 1036A, it was in production between 1997-2015, and only after that, it was updated and replaced with new 1236A model using the latest design, which is currently also available. If you have any further questions or concerns, don't hesitate to reach us at support@genelec.com and we are happy to help!
@lindijones
@lindijones Жыл бұрын
Is there a price? Or is it for free? 😎
@80-80.
@80-80. Жыл бұрын
Let’s put it this way. They are not for us.😊
@juliangst
@juliangst Жыл бұрын
70K€
@lindijones
@lindijones Жыл бұрын
@@juliangst Source?
@johansugarev
@johansugarev Жыл бұрын
@@juliangst 70k for a pair.
@juliangst
@juliangst Жыл бұрын
@@johansugarev Yes for a pair. So they basically sit between the 1235A and 1236A price wise
@pesoso78
@pesoso78 Жыл бұрын
For 70000 it's better be good
@okay1904
@okay1904 Жыл бұрын
How much would a Dolby Atmos configuration with this speaker in a 9.1.4 setup, cost? $500,000 ? Petty sure each of these speakers will be at least $25,000, minus installation costs. Not something you can just pick up, like buying Adam Audio speakers from your local music store. Even if you bought one - how the heck would it be delivered? With 4 strong men per speaker. Might need to build a new home, to withstand the weight.... Awesome, it's good to dream - one day...
@thorstenwieszniewski6875
@thorstenwieszniewski6875 Жыл бұрын
172 kg total weight I'm sure that Neumann will follow suit, since there is still a real successor to the Klein+Hummel O 500 missing! It should then also be available in living space-friendly white.... For EUR 20,000,-- there will probably no longer be such a thing..... Genelec submits and demands EUR 70,000.00
@the_desert_dweller
@the_desert_dweller Жыл бұрын
Guessing these will be around $100K U.S.D?
@Kharrari
@Kharrari Жыл бұрын
$32K I want to hear them.
@truman4956
@truman4956 11 ай бұрын
This is the opposite of all audiophile speakers and far better for less
@kaybhee6
@kaybhee6 11 ай бұрын
do u not feel it more honest to keep numers in rms
@genelec
@genelec 11 ай бұрын
If you have something in mind, and if you need more information, don't hesitate to reach us at support@genelec.com ☺
@kaybhee6
@kaybhee6 11 ай бұрын
@@genelec u see...u answered it,,, as expected
@genelec
@genelec 11 ай бұрын
Are you looking for this information? Maximum long term RMS acoustic output, IEC-weighted noise (limited by protection circuit) at 1 m, half-space is 121dB. Don't hesitate to send us e-mail for any more specific questions and we do our best to help. @@kaybhee6
@kaybhee6
@kaybhee6 11 ай бұрын
@@genelec kindly start adding that iportant word, RMS into you website, catalogs, etc
@jm892
@jm892 Жыл бұрын
I’m using for near 40 years 1032A as front mains, 1031A as surrounds and a pair of 1094A subs. I obviously love the audio quality of the Genelec monitors. But flush mounting is by construction not an option here and it’s a shame in a way ! Flush mounting allows a 180° radiation and cancels a lot of issues for monitor placement… Not totally convinced that this new model will avoid most of these issues. IMHO
@genelec
@genelec Жыл бұрын
Flush mounting is always good choice whenever possible. I hope you also can get a chance to listen to these speakers some day, once they come available to our dealers. 🙂
@jm892
@jm892 Жыл бұрын
Let me know when and where they will be in Paris !…
@21stcenturymetal31
@21stcenturymetal31 Жыл бұрын
$32,000.00 each holy cow. 64k plus tax ouch
@JonoTheVoiceofAustralia
@JonoTheVoiceofAustralia Жыл бұрын
Ohh PMC just got very angry!
@maailmanalku7271
@maailmanalku7271 Жыл бұрын
No subwoofer needed!
@stealthis
@stealthis Жыл бұрын
Makes the JBL M2 look cheap
@MedQ
@MedQ Жыл бұрын
Do I have enough organs to pay for this or do I have to involve more family members..? :D
@TheOratane
@TheOratane Жыл бұрын
"can place it anywhere in the room, it doesn't have to be recessed in the wall" bro the speaker is the size of a fridge it's not exactly going to be easy to place lmao
@melaniezette886
@melaniezette886 Жыл бұрын
I'll never ear it 😒
@rabarebra
@rabarebra 10 ай бұрын
The fuse in your ears are blown before you hear it. 😂
@m0wao690
@m0wao690 Жыл бұрын
Point Source; Founded in the 40s by Altec Lansing ... Nice to see Point Source still allive :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altec_Lansing_Duplex
G*Connect GLM webinar 1/3: Loudspeaker placement and room acoustics
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Genelec Official Channel
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Best Toilet Gadgets and #Hacks you must try!!💩💩
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Dennis Braunsdorf - Speaker comparison
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Private Kitchen
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Top 10 Stand Mount Speakers of ALL-TIME!
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Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac
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Discover the Surprising Flaw in Center Channel Speakers
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Room Acoustics101 with Anthony Grimani
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