Corruption or Efficiency? The Story of the Tie Fighter Program

[@OrionInSpace]

GT from the bottom of my heart don’t stop making these kinds of videos. This is the kind of unique and different Star Wars content I look for these days. You aren’t just milking the Acolyte still like some are but you enjoy being different with your kind of content. We need more of it! Never thought in the year 2024 I see a video about starship economics.

[@TheGambler2003]

Fr, this is the type of Star Wars content I want, like this is the nerdy shit I love. I hate watching different creators make the same video over and over again about Disney and Star Wars sucking

[@OrionInSpace]

@@TheGambler2003 believe me when I tell you there is a certain creator that everyone knows the name of that I have completely fallen off of and now I’ve transitioned over to GT as one of my main Star Wars channels I follow. There’s passion here unlike the other one.

[@LeafBoye]

​@@OrionInSpacewho was it?

[@OrionInSpace]

@@LeafBoye Star Wars Theory

[@pauls4002]

What he said, this was a fun listen.

[@barbiquearea]

One could only imagine how insanely wealthy the twin engine design would have made Sienar Fleet Systems had the Empire not risen to power, nationalized and forced the company to focus their attention towards the production of starfighters over commercial vessels. The fact that this revolutionary engine design not only requires less maintenance but is also capable of being powered with just solar panels. That alone would have been a game changer for the freight shipping market.

[@GenerationTech]

That or Bro would’ve ended up outside of an airlock mysterious

[@sqoualalaobikord9690]

​@@GenerationTech just like IRL diesel

[@eight-cloudspurple5871]

​​@@GenerationTechNonsense, Sienar was a big MIC and shipmaker. Corporate security is gonna vaporize anyone dumb enough to try. Northrop didnt put out a hit on Lockheed's CEO after USAF adopted the F22 instead

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

The acolyte the worst kind of woke garbage you get a thumbs down for showing an acolyte Clipper mentioning it or talking about it like it's real fucking Star Wars no it's woke garbage

[@thehillbillygamer2183]

So you mean the failed policies and decisions like the biden-harris administration open borders inflation thanks to economic Warfare against Russia wasting all that money on Ukraine and not giving a shit about the American people and how it affects them lower the standard of living crying everywhere for the no cash bail and not enforcing shoplifting selective enforcement of the law BLM riots January 6th which I realize BLM happened under Trump in January 6th happened not under Trump what is selective enforcement of the law playing in sample for racial and political reasons

[@jeffersonian000]

Ironically, TIE’s not having shields was an EU thing, created by West End Games in their Star Wars RPG as a way to allow Rebel players to kill Empire NPC’s while not being as fragile themselves. This got into other EU works as well as official lore.

[@TFE134]

I’ve always loved the TIE Fighter, even from a young age. Watching episode IV, I loved the shape, the speed and of course the iconic scream that it had.

[@thingamabob3902]

same here, but then I was always irked by the TIE being a dedicated carrier borne craft that it was the least efficient at it... you know, the large wings and large volume of space inside the carrier it requires and delivering only mediocre abilities for all that wasted space. But visually great SF ...

[@Reddotzebra]

@@thingamabob3902 Also that the wings are canonically supposed to be energy collectors, solar panels basically. This thing is built from the ground up to be a carrier based fighter, so why add two giant wings that block vision to the sides when their utility is probably only going to benefit a small number of the actual craft in the field? Those that are rack mounted on the outside of smaller craft may not be able to feed off their bird farm, but surely it would be faster and more efficient to refuel those on board space stations or any kind of dedicated carrier straight from their main reactor?

[@Folker46590]

I liked the Tie-fighter because it's the Japanese Zero of Star Wars, fast and maneuverable, with enough firepower to shoot down enemy fighters of its time. Can't take much damage and the chance of losing the pilot is almost 100%, but it was designed for attritional warfare, not strike missions like the X-wing. What I HATE is seeing Tie-fighters maneuvering in an atmosphere, they are NOT designed for it, and it breaks immersion to see a ship so clearly not aerodynamic, maneuver like it has wings. It's not 'cool', it's looks like lazy writing. Plus seeing Tie-fighters still flying and fighting, while clearly outdated, is also lazy. Star Wars fell into the trap of thinking Star Wars means 1. Light Sabers, 2. Jedi, 3. Storm Troopers who can't aim, 4. Bigger is better when it comes everything, 5. Never introduce anything new that doesn't look like something old. and 6. The fans will accept and love anything, even something bad.

[@stuglife5514]

@@Folker46590 Bro, the ships in lore have atmospheric shields and inertia dampeners that allowed them to fly in atmosphere. This isn’t a new Disney thing. They’ve been doing that since the old days in the EU. Hell, the Tie bomber is *meant* for in atmospheric bombing missions. Is it only lazy writing because the first time you saw a tie in atmospheric flight was in a Disney movie? Because I remember plenty of old EU comics and video games having them fly in atmosphere.

[@Folker46590]

@@stuglife5514 And I hated it even then. Making your spaceships able to fly in an atmosphere just seems lazy to me. It's 'rule of cool' and while that can work, it doesn't for a Tie fighter. It just makes me angry.

[@lordvader5756]

Listening to this is like listening to the actual story of a real company. It's so realistic

[@MBSill]

That's what I love about this channel, the presentation. I'm a Star Wars and history nut and these videos are just like watching a history documentary. No one can compete with this guy!

[@AussieGuy-qb8mh]

@@MBSillI’m also a Star Wars fan and history buff

[@thestanleys3657]

When you have a monopoly on fighter production there's gonna be some corruption

[@VIPERJ27]

Replace fighter production with passengers planes and I would of thought you was talking about Boeing

[@therecalcitrantseditionist3613]

100% because you can only get monopolies though corruption and rigging the playing field, unless somehow others cant produce the product

[@erickg9011]

@@VIPERJ27 Boeing makes the F-15

[@VIPERJ27]

@@erickg9011 yeah i know they also make tons of aircraft for the military but they don’t really hold it down like they do passenger planes for instance they also make the B-52

[@jasonrr9817]

Skunkworks is not a company, it is a division....of LOCKHEED boeing hasn't bought them yet.​@VIPERJ27

[@Marinealver]

They managed to avoid total Imperial Takeover by simply doing EVERYTHING the Emperor demanded of them.

[@butcherpete2286]

I mean....... That's the idea though.

[@dekoldrick]

I like how your video are often worded in a way that can reflect the real world like the problems with unchecked political power and governing systems based on camaraderie instead of merits.

[@CharlesMosley129]

OFF SUBJECT: i think it is soo wizard having Star Wars cityscapes outside of the window in your videos. perhaps a different city every video: Nar Shaddaa, Malastare, Taris, Cato Niemoidia, Empress Teta, Munnilist, Mygeeto. just a idea but i think it's a cool one.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

It's absolutely cool, yes. Videos by Generation Tech and Eckhart's Ladder are keeping my fading passion for Star Wars from fading away completely. Bless them.

[@TheHipsterGamer]

It’s such a crazy idea to me that a company with a highly bureaucratic structure not unlike many of the companies we see today can last so long that it spans a length of time that could connect ancient Egypt to the modern era… you discuss a formidable star ship design the company produced a whopping 4 thousand years before it engineered the very first TIE fighter. That’s so much galactic history that it just makes many events feel insignificant until the galaxy experiences something like the hyperspace disaster during the high republic era that changes everything. It’s like the changes Europe went through before, during, and after Rome.

[@reginaldshort8486]

I’ll invest in Sienar not because of its TIE fighter per se but because it also has shuttles and transports used by the military and civilians alike. Also like Incom and Koensayr they can maintain relevance just by reselling parts from the Core to the Outer Rim

[@jamesricker3997]

The Grand Moff Tarkin was rumored to have had substantial investments in the Kuat Drive Yards. A more detailed investigation into his investments could answer some questions

[@twistedyogert]

I wonder what happened to the stock price after he blew up. Wait. Does the galaxy have a stock exchange?

[@anthonyrodriguez8788]

​@@twistedyogertthat is a very good question. We never hear about Stock really dipping for any of these corporations, they seem to survive solely based on their products being bought and sold by governments and civilians.

[@marrqi7wini54]

​@twistedyogert I believe in legends, the destruction of the first Death Star caused recessions.

[@Mike5Brown]

Wouldn't put it past him but I do remember in Rebels (IIRC) Tarkin was taking money away from Tie Defender program to fund his other projects.

[@Reddotzebra]

@@Mike5Brown That was canon even before Rebels I think? He really did not like the "well equipped fighter to put our aces in so they don't get blown up all the time" idea.

[@AmelityshTV]

He went back to his room on Alderaan. Good for you, Allen

[@Robert_Douglass]

Who, Raith Sienar or Allen Xie?

[@Robert_Douglass]

Who, Raith Sienar, or Allen Xie?

[@Hanashibi]

One of the wonders of the TIE Fighter was simple. Any shield small enough to fit on one, was weak enough to be taken down in almost a single shot. And the charging system which fed the Twin Ion Engine vie Solar Panel couldn't maintain the shield generator in addition well. I imagine several experimental TIE designs for a baseline shield generator having the shield system almost doubling the price of the ship for a durability increase that was measured in single percentile as well as a small loss of maneuverability that in turn undid even that. It is my opinion that the APEX of the Tie Line wasn't the over-designed Defender but rather the TIE/IN (Interceptor). With the Defender you may as well buy Custom works. Have full livability and comforts. As well as a mass of weapons and fixtures and hot-points for ace pilots. BUT THE INTERCEPTOR, it maintained the (Relative) cheapness, increased the firepower, maximized the maneuverability, kept the dependence. Everything bulky was removed. It was faster, better, and increased survivability against the basic TIE/LN by multiples, justifying the cost, while keeping it cheap enough for it not to be 'ACE PILOT ONLY'. The only reason I figure the IN didn't replace the LN was that most TIE Fighters acted as policing vessels, flying from their mobile station to escort and monitor local traffic as well as patrol duty in the strange, off hand chance someone got a bright idea to attack one of the larger imperial ships. Meaning if you flew 300 days a year, and most years you never fired your turbo-lasers the LN was flat more than enough for anything your job would entail. While the IN would be more military deployment and high priority mission. One other 'problem' most TIE Model ships have is the top entry cockpit, large foils, made you require a feat of physical aptitude to even get in your ship if you weren't in a TIE Dock. You could land on the ground but you'd better hope the Starport has some really long ladders or that you're a master climber. The Interceptor's longer fins as opposed to the taller ones meant that it could land easier making it better for lower orbit patrols than its more baseline Counterpart. Take it from me, back I've been a TIE Advocate most of my imperial, and post imperial career and I still have my Original TIE/IN which after the fall of the Empire has received every Aftermarket Improvement you can imagine. Including a Super Compact Hyperdrive (Compactness over Speed) an Ion Converter for her Turbo Lasers as well as a Tiny Shield Generator. She can get me too and from planets in far away systems in hours. As well as having enough compact storage space for things like basic camping gear and rations. The concept being the Shield Generator reduces attrition and micro-damage from space debris, which, while the base armor and hall is qualified to deal with, farther reduces the already low maintenance time to almost nothing. As she stands she could sit 100 years and all you'd need is new padding in the seats, everything else would still run golden. TIE is about Survival through Skill. Reliable, robust mechanics, and always being able to outmaneuver your opponents. Anyone changing that fundamental doesn't understand "True Imperial Elegance".

[@DonaldWWitt]

Yeah, one of my biggest gripes with the TIE is that the Solar Panels are awkward and literally as big as Barn Doors, a BIG Barn at that. My favorite TIEs are the Hunter or even the Outland, with their folding Panels, and even the basic Interceptor stretches them into a less awkward profile!

[@fnunez]

I'm a bit surprised that Sienar didn't license their design to other companies, so they could also produce the empire's standard fighter. An example from modern day Earth is the AK-47 assault rifle, which was licensed to many companies throughout the soviet union precisely to meet demand across the various satellite states and proxy wars with NATO.

[@GeneGear]

They probably did, the TIE-LN was absolutely UBIQUITOUS throughout the galaxy, as much a symbol of the Empire as the Imperial-Class was. KYD may have been a big company, but TIEs were compliments of far more than just Star Destroyers. Of course, only Empire-approved corporations would have those licenses, those like the CEC would have been given the middle finger. Which...would encourage said corporations to build more effective ships in order to specifically counter the new "galactic standard."

[@spaceengineeringempire4086]

Simple most companies in the SE galaxy at this time that made products where vertically integrated.

[@BLENDITE]

I am not the biggest star wars fan, but these videos really put into perspective the amount of world building thats gone into the universe, and these videos do the most justice ive seen to it so far

[@GenerationTech]

Check out or video about Koensayr Manufacturing as well >>> kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKLIZpykar6SpKM

[@pyeitme508]

Wow

[@СтавридесКелевра]

@GenerationTech With all that economic videos on Star Wars lore will we ever hear an answer to my personally biggest question on Star Wars corps: what the heck Kuat produced since Ruusan reformation and for the next thousand years?! They are same, if not bigger, sized as Corellia, and specialized in military production. Yet all the peace time they didn't even produced Dreadnaught-class, it was Rendili - build...

[@aliastheabnormal]

Actually Kuat also made Dreadnaughts. They were famous for their Kuat defense fleet. Which was basically a giant showcase of how much crap they had for sale. They even had the original Mandator which was a mile long ship which before the Clone wars was the largest ship ever made.

[@СтавридесКелевра]

@@aliastheabnormal yeah, but when you are one of only three orbital ring-class yards per whole universe, you need more than a test samples, single orders and licensed production of someone else's ships - you need to be everywhere, in each sector, like Corellian or at least Rendili products. Even smaller Fondor supplied whole Hutt section of space and had a part of republican market...

[@GeneralBlackNorway]

@@СтавридесКелевра They probably serviced the civilian markets with big transport ships.

[@GenerationTech]

Kuat still had a home fleet and many core worlds did. I believe the regulations dictated how many weapons you could have on your capital ships or something like that.

[@aliastheabnormal]

@@GenerationTech Yes, as well as the engines and hyperdrive.

[@varundattoo9512]

Glad you're back to content that matters. So here's my scenario, what if droids were used instead of pilots. TIEs are already so affordable, low maintenance and the swarming tactics they were designed for already screams automation. I think ATIEs(Automated TIE) or TIE-D(TIE droid) would have been devastaing, especially if the brains were repurposed Vulture droids. This would also alter the design a bit, the cockpit could be streamlined and the silhouette could be made even smaller.

[@NYG5]

Droids would be politically unfeasible and also defeats the purpose of having a society at arms. The New Order can't punt defense responsibility onto non-citizens again, the Imperial Citizen must make the defense of the body politic their personal responsibility.

[@stcredzero]

WWII in space again. Before watching the vid: It could be both. The BF-109 kept on being made because the factories that made it kept on getting better and better at it. So switching to a different fighter which didn't have the inherent limitations of the BF-109 (as big an engine in as small a plane as practical) would have meant falling behind in the short term. That's the legit efficiency part. The corruption would have involved trying to keep profit margins as high as possible by advocating for a doctrine demanding many small, cheap fighters.

[@brokeandtired]

Also it was a dictatorship in the Empire....They needed a usable fighter that was dirt cheap, for local control spread across an empire and within a budget. For hyperdrives they could simply hitch a ride on other ships....The resistance needed quality fighters that could slip into/out of systems without support.

[@robertmartinu8803]

See Superiority from Arthur c Clarke for what happens if you chase the latest and greatest. But then: conserving pilots would save more than the extra costs for a more survivable fighter.

[@twistedyogert]

I'm surprised that jets were even accepted into full production given how jets are more expensive to build (special alloys are needed for the turbine blades and other components subjected to combustion) and maintain.

[@reklessbravo2129]

​@@twistedyogert Germany had a massive fuel problem, and jets can run on lower quality fuel than high performance piston engines can

[@charliepotatoes001]

@@twistedyogert Rockets and guided missiles became more prevalent after the war dictating the need for overall speed to outrun such firepower (Super Sonic). Secondly high altitude bombing was the new doctrine in air support and jet engines could operate at extreme altitudes on very little fuel thus making their operational range very attractive. Ironically the P-51 Mustang the widely lauded fighter plane of that period is still strongly sought after as a Sport/Racing aircraft and an incredible amount of technology over the decades has enhanced the performance capability of that airframe.

[@mattthemouse1]

“Palpatine is a deal maker like Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell” Why did you have to do Palpatine dirty like that?

[@TheGoddamnBacon]

LOOOL

[@VainerCactus0]

The two worst people. Well, at least he looks the same age as them lol.

[@sighsgkj]

yeah Palpatine RULEZ no one is his equal to make deals

[@Dexter037S4]

I mean Palpy is literally based on Hitler and Nixon so lol lmao even

[@jiffypoo5029]

The biggest counter to the Cost Efficency argument for Tie Fighters is the Y-Wing, both cost 60k. A new Y-Wing variant with Twin Ion Engines would be low cost due to reduced R&D and infrastructure cost plus heavy weapons, shields and hyperdrive are a big perk. Even the busted up Rebellion Y-Wings worth 30k have really good odds 1v1 with a Tie.

[@DonaldWWitt]

Yeah, the TIE/LN was an incredible security craft, but if its Mission Goal was "Multirole Fighter" then it really sucked even in comparison to the sluggish and bulky Y-wing.

[@CSBastianyGaumnitz]

What the hell? Star wars cannon goes so deep they get into the shareholders take on the Tie fighter.

[@butcherpete2286]

Dude star wars lore goes so deep they have highly detailed internal schematics for fictitious weapons that aren't physically possible. And the craziest part is it all makes sense.

[@Force_user57]

That's not canon, it's legends material.Always check the sources

[@butcherpete2286]

@@Force_user57 ThAtS nOt CaNoN! Who cares anymore? I mean literally the people dictating what is and isn't canon don't care so why should we.

[@jeshonloonskin4176]

@@Force_user57no one cares what’s canon or legends anymore, they care for it all.

[@JohnFoerster-i5y]

I've been out of touch for a little bit of time it seems and keep finding new, to me, your videos, 5, & four months old. I wish to applaud you for these beautiful masterpieces of information from, this Galaxy far far away, from a time long ago.

[@earnestbrown6524]

Why does a TIE fighter cry in space? It wants its Mothership.

[@andrewlim9345]

Sienar Fleet Systems seems to remind me of various defence contractors throughout history and the present including the German aircraft manufacturers Junkers, Messerschmitt and Heinkel as well as Northrop and Boeing.

[@SpaceDetergentAM]

Dude I love videos like this. Diving into the minutiae of military, business and government bullshit. As well as basic mechanics of something as simple as the TIE fighter. I'd love to see more. Love the view btw

[@mm3mm3]

Alan’s videos are always top notch and thought provoking 😊😊😊😊😊

[@mm3mm3]

My thanks to everyone who hit the like button 😃

[@shadow9774]

In regards to ship costs I'd argue the price of the Z-95 was cheaper than a TIE. That 60k price tag I bet comes with the condition of it being at a discount due to it being a bulk military order and with stipulations that they were the only option/considered first choice for newer projects. Meanwhile the Z-95 was 80k. The Z-95 had a far more versatile payload and had shields stock, coupled with the fact that a hyperdrive could be added along with several other modifications means you have a very modular design that can meet more specialized demands. This streamlined process along with increased pilot survivability would be much cheaper in the long run too.

[@oldcur]

Generation Tech is the best!

[@bgabbitas]

Havant watched one of your videos for a while. Glad to be back! X

[@trec_log]

i love how these videos are framed in such a way that they could conceivably exist in universe

[@barnettmcgowan8978]

Great video! I always loved the Tie Fighter for the Empire. It fits their stated mentality. It's the starfighter equivalent of the M4 Sherman Tank. Mass-producible, cost effective, reliable, and effective in quantity. The concept is sound for the expectations they had about how it would be used. Even Democratic regimes fail miserably at predicting the future of warfare. The Empire didn't fail because of the Tie Fighter. The Empire failed because of the inherent self-destructive qualities of Fascist regimes. The Rebellion didn't defeat the Empire, they manipulated the Empire into destroying itself. In a non-Fascist regime, the Tie Fighter could have been a war winner. A sound basic platform that could be evolved with greater and greater capability. However, when you build two Death Stars, you don't have money left over for improving your starfighters. Imagine an Empire with no Death Stars, but ISD's full of Tie Defenders and hyperdrive capable Troop Transports. The Rebellion would have been crushed, along with all military resistance. The fear factor of the Tarkin Doctrine would have been accomplished by the ever-present swarms of Tie Defenders.

[@eliplayer9347]

I love your videos man. Such a rich resource for Humanity to enjoy Star Wars even more deeply.

[@sergeipohkerova7211]

I feel like A New Hope depicted the TIE fighters and their pilots to be outstanding and the lack of shields didn't seem to matter so much since they pretty much got one-shot-kills against the Alliance fighter bombers, regardless of of the hits were generally tail-chase and the Rebels switched their deflectors "double front." The pro and con rationalizing seems more of a sensible ret-con to make the X Wing in particular live up to the hype of it being so cool looking. By Return of the Jedi the Empire seemed more bumbling and weak, and while the TIE fighter and interceptor weren't depicted as garbage, they seemed to have a bit more of a cannon fodder for the plot's good guys role. In the old MS DOS TIE Fighter Lucas Arts game, the Tie fighter had incredible performance compared to the X Wing but it was very fragile unless you fiddled with game options to make yourself invincible. The TIE Interceptor was in my opinion way overpowered against the X Wing performance wise, but again weak armor. But then the TIE Advanced and Defender were just ridiculously superior vehicles. One fun thing to do in the game is that in some missions, you can load up your Defender with space bombs or protons or concussions and take out your own corvette mothership, then an ISD hyperspaces in and the narrator says "destroying your ship was not wise." Then the computer sends wave after wave of Tie Bombers (for some reason) to attack you, and it's fun shooting down your own ships 😂

[@russellharrell2747]

In the trench run the rebel fighters ‘stabilized’ their rear deflectors once the trench guns stopped firing and they were warned about enemy fighters. The ANH TIEs were extremely deadly due to their rapid fire cannons. For some reason the later movies showed TIEs firing pretty slowly in comparison. I’d say there’s some evidence in ANH that TIEs are shielded (‘flak bursts’ from the Falcon’s guns using the exact same special effects as laser shots absorbed by shields), or, at least, the TIEs from the Death Star anyway. I have many fond memories of TIE Fighter, it was just too much fun.

[@lancer737]

The Rebels had over 30 Fighters at the Battle of Yavin, and canonically only Black Squadron was used to counter said 30 fighters, two squadrons were at least the most elite in the whole Rebel Alliance, Black Squadron had around only 9-11 Pilots in it. Between 2-3 Black Squadron Pilots survived, while only 4-5 Rebels survived. Thats a pretty high KDR ratio for Black Squadron, minus any Wing fighters taken out by turrets.

[@lancer737]

@@russellharrell2747 Its because TIEs, if they are from specialized, elite, or ace squadrons/wings/groups have access to lots of various different weapons. If you are comparing the firing rate of the TIE Interceptor to Black Squadron from ANH, you should know that the 9.3 Laser Cannons of TIE Interceptors/Avengers/Defenders are piratically Turbo Lasers. The smaller version used on the X1 is labeled a "Heavy Laser Cannon" while Medium Laser cannons of the time of the Clone Wars are good enough to destroy Cruiser class ships if that fighter can survive long enough. Unless on a lower power setting, the 9.3 on TIE Interceptors dont normally fire that fast, not that they need to, because a Single Beam will destroy the shields and one hit kill any fighter, even B-Wings, while fighters like X-Wings and A-Wings are depicted flat out vaporizing from being hit by those lasers on their base power ouput at minimum. A shielded B-Wing was depicted getting one beam killed by an Interceptor, and burning up.

[@russellharrell2747]

@@lancer737 of course, the Jedi depicts ships being as fragile or durable as the plot demands. But at least there’s been an attempt to quantify the capabilities of starfighters…to a degree

[@minrityreprt6302]

Ironic to consider how accurate TIE fighters were compared to the Stormtroopers who couldn't hit the broadside of a planet from low orbit.

[@cactus472]

Just realised that the ghost appeared in rogue one. Look to 18:31. Probably not new to most of you but putting there just in case 😊

[@ZippsterSmee]

Been riding my Kawi 636 on the "TIE Fighter Precept" for like 20 yrs. Hasn't failed me yet.

[@henryfarinas5843]

Great window view

[@GenerationTech]

Thanks 😊

[@TheJasonDonald]

Sienar definitely was a company in the Star Wars universe that some how manage to keep limping on even after the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War ended. Since their fighters are seen in the First Order and Final Order navies thirty years later. Which honestly blows my mind that this company survived for thousands of years and manage to continue to move forward even after their golden age the Empire and Galactic Civil War ended. Truly I’m amazed this company survived this long without being bought out.

[@dwightkiefer8099]

A reliable line of fighters, A marvel of engineering, or one of the most grotesque examples of Imperial Cronyism and corruption? I'm thinking all of the above. The hell of it is, sometimes, a company or individual that is rotten to its core, way beyond saving... can still have a good, if very niche, product to sell you.

[@TitusSmith-i6r]

I 🧡💛 Generation Tech

[@smartass0124]

Vibration would push mass not the entire body . The body would Shaffer or melt before it moves . But it would make it easier on Conventional rockets.

[@mr.tillius8119]

Great video as always

[@Yacovo]

Thanks for the video.

[@debbralehrman5957]

Thanks Alan👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@Mathulhu172]

I can't remember where I saw it, but I loved the idea that the TIE fighter was really well designed to act as part of a group with lots of multi directional high speed attacks but it was missused because the promotion system rewarded pilots who went for the personal glory of a dogfight.

[@Vistico93]

I do wonder (as a non-consumer of the comics/Expanded Universe stuff) that, despite its wastefulness in terms of manpower, the TIE fighter's lack of shields meant you either learned how to pilot one of those things competently and quickly or you just straight up died I would imagine a rebel fighter group going against a TIE fighter squadron comprised mainly of pilots who had survived at least five engagements with the enemy to be terrifying opponents indeed (and that deadly experience a valuable asset to the Rebel Alliance if they could be cajoled into defecting)

[@malpacamusic_1007]

me at 7:10 : loll that sounds like skunkworks --- *seconds later* *INTERNAL SCREAMING* (also the ship and story described starting at 11:42 super parallels the F-22 program (with Maul's ship acting like a stand-in for the F-117) with the advanced stealth technology but ultimately fatal cost (especially in maintenance), causing a very limited number to be built

[@TitusSmith-i6r]

Alan Rules!!!!

[@jasonmorahan7450]

The TIE fighter in EU is a great example of everything that went wrong with Star Wars even before the Disney takeover. From original Star Wars novelisation I read around 1979, the original TIE was defined by its engineering, which is a visual concept and not simply technomagic, for the suspension of disbelief and audience immersion. It was basically a stripped-down structure built around a twin-ion sublight drive, each fed by a massive solar collector to cut fuel weight although the obvious consequence is a very short range which, logically would diminish all the way to backup generators the further you get away from local solar radiation such as in deep interstellar space. As virtually all naval action for the Empire occurs within star systems, generally in siege or fortification of systems defences and combat around planets this isn't a particular issue and presents numerous benefits from production cost and complexity to performance. The crew section is an exposed, armoured cockpit without an external hull, containing minimal accommodations as the pilot wears a personal life support and systems integrating, vehicle interfacing space suit, without which operating the craft would be nearly impossible. It has no shielding, no safety equipment like inertial dampeners, no insulating hull structure, no cockpit environmental systems. Instead of complex technologies the manoeuvring system is provided by the engine exhausting through a two-dimensional screen of vanes set in a hexagonal outlet at the rear of main pod (giving its howling noise signature), so each engine provides thrust offset to the other, these are rotated and the engines modulated asymmetrically to turn the craft in space entirely by thrust vectoring, which combines with its intensely lightweight vehicle mass to provide extreme agility and acceleration. In a sense these are limited only by the survivability of the pilot to the forces involved, compensated as much as technologically possible by the advanced integrated flight suit. Now the thing to remember about the Star Wars universe is that it is the product of many thousands of years of interstellar civilisation and most technologies have evolved towards their limitations and have a developmental plateau. There aren't a constant stream of newer and more powerful starship engines or hyperdrives for example, their performance has been fairly similar and economically governed for millennia. So you don't have a starfighter that moves at 75MGLT one year and then a few years later it has more powerful engines and moves at 100MGLT, there must be engineering reasons for the speed increase, a crew member is deleted or some spacecraft systems, the hyperdrives are removed, or if engines from a much heavier craft are fitted its fuel capacity is a fraction of what it was previously and there are now jury rigging issues with other systems. Generally speaking, only marginal increases in performance through production refinement are available through successive model generations, dramatic changes in performance only come through engineering compromises or complete redesign of the craft. And this is where we run into problems with the EU TIE series. It's not an issue for the TIE/advanced-X prototypes like the X1 flown by Darth Vader, these are technology testbeds and demonstrators for TIE systems mounted aboard a far more traditional spacecraft chassis using engine thrusters, inertial dampeners, full shielding capabilities, cockpit environment systems, insulating hull structure and even a lightweight hyperdrive. You're not just taking a regular fleet TIE and adjusting the specifications figures without concrete, visible engineering reasons for those changes, which is what the EU TIE fighters do. It's not even an issue with the TIE Interceptor which is, in fact a marginal refinement of the regular Line TIE in terms of performance figures with a significant visual cue with its solar collectors and weapon mounting, explained as a much more expensive production refinement for elite squadrons analogous to the regular Stormtroopers and the elite Royal Guardsman selected from their ranks and elevated with more advanced training and expensive equipment. The main area the TIE interceptor streaks ahead of the Line TIE is in manoeuvrability, which was ostensibly achieved through systems refinement developed in the Advanced-X testbeds. There is a little bit of reasoning fudge here but it works within the context of the Emperor's special, small unit elite forces and trying not to overplay it, which again the EU fandom does to a shocking degree. It's the difference between sci-fi and technomagic, which yes Star Wars is prone to because of its best feature: lightsabres. But the whole point is to create the suspension of disbelief for lightsabres you need a more gritty and pragmatic sci-fi environment in which it's a feature that genuinely stands out as atypical in the story. Han Solo, the classic space western, rough and banged up spaceships, frontier settings, blaster guns modelled on real world military small arms with a few cosmetics. It's all very familiar and immersive and then the lightsabre well it just stands out as such an exception that you could almost believe it exists in this universe as the product of some mystic wizards and sorcerers using an energy field called the Force. But if you go and turn all the spaceships into nonsense technomagic you throw the whole damn thing against a wall. Which is what the EU did even by the time of the Prequel trilogy, which followed suit and it all became a decision of alienating any youth/adult sci fi enthusiasts from the franchise in favour of a child target audience and the screwy political extremists that like to target children with adult lifestyle themes such as we see with Disney producers/directors. Turning the whole thing infantile basically crafts it specifically for children and wackos, all the maturity leaves the room to go do something less intellectually painful. I was a massive fan as a child but I can't stand what Star Wars turned into, with the exception of Rogue One anything beyond the original standalone film is just shit to me. It all went so far off the rails despite starting with a great idea that just had too much potential not to be completely exploited to the point of stank by human nature.

[@Hello-bi1pm]

George doesn't call it sci-fi. The fact that fans treated it like sci-fi world is their own misconception and problem.

[@danielpayne1597]

You did an amazing job of making a documentary about a fictional character interesting.

[@georgepapatheofilou6118]

Cool clips during this script Allen GT . 👍🧐

[@TheHumanRanger]

This thumbnail is better than the other one

[@luisemoralesfalcon4716]

For the Empire!!!

[@slashteam8440]

For a second there I thought you guys were coverinh Lockheed Martin

[@GoranXII]

Well TBF, fighters are _usually_ made to fit government-issued specifications, though, occasionally, a government will accept a company's own design into service. Therefore, any flaws with the TIE fighter lie with the Empire for either not issuing better specifications, or for accepting a design which was clearly limited.

[@matthewjay660]

In the 90's Star Wars "X-Wing" game, I used to ram Tie Fighters with my full shields to destroy them fast. RAMMING SPEED! 💪🏻

[@Tinnitus1445]

I mean his company was definitely capable of designing and manufacturing TIE series craft that could preform the role of something like the X-wing. The TIE advanced that Vader used is an example of a TIE fighter with hyperdrives and a more robust design while not sacrificing much in the way of performance as an interceptor. It seems to me that you hit the nail on the head with it being a cost issue and likely a doctrinal one too, the empire’s navy revolved around the ISD. The star fighters were there to support the capital ships so putting too many resources into mass production of more individually capable TIE designs early on was probably seen as unnecessary early on.

[@simpinainteasy1916]

With they way you described everything in this video, i can see this being a movie.

[@SkyReaperOne]

Would you say that the twin ion engine was the best small ship propulsion system in Star Wars? I wonder what kind of beastly ship could be built around that system, considering its strengths. Not to mention how compact it is. I know the Tie Defender program aimed at doing this, but I feel like it was taking the wrong approach. Trying too hard to stick to the Tie line's build philosophies. I could see a small ship mounting several small engines around the ship to make it pull off some unnatural manoeuvres, such as circle strafing enemy ships and flying backwards without any real loss in manoeuvrability. Such agility would greatly improve the effectiveness of each ship. Allowing them to easily throw off any target leading skills or systems, while simultaneously improving the ship's ability to stay zeroed in on the target. Of course, such a ship would also require a solid G-force compensator for the pilot. That, or have it piloted by a droid brain or through remote control.

[@rakaydosdraj8405]

Have you checked out the Imperial Raider? Created by FFG for their minatures games and then made into a hero ship in SW Battlefront 2, it's a ship the size of a blocade runner that feels like halfway between a Tie Interceptor and an Arquitens cruiser.

[@SkyReaperOne]

@@rakaydosdraj8405 Oooh, that sounds interesting

[@sethb3090]

Listen, Sienar developed a revolutionary platform. It wasn't his fault that the Empire only wanted the bargain basement version. Look at some of the TIE models that had actual funding and it becomes clear that he had a winner on his hands.

[@cc-bk3tx]

Tie Hunter my beloved

[@violetlight1548]

Despite the TIE fighter's flaws, training pilots to *not* rely on shields ultimately makes them better pilots (if they last long enough to learn). The hands down BEST non-Force sensitive pilot in the SW galaxy, Baron Soontir Fel, is a TIE Interceptor pilot.

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

Actually that title was handed down to his son, Jagged Fel.

[@violetlight1548]

@@STSWB5SG1FAN and Jag flies a TIE (a clawcraft, but it's essentially a TIE) and also is notably NOT force-sensitive.

[@michaelhatcher4097]

Remember what Destro said about said about salling arms to both side " Dont get caught"

[@bigsarge2085]

**screeching ion engine sound**

[@anonymousli4204]

🤣 I can hear it in my head!

[@GenerationTech]

I love that scene in andor

[@sinax8283]

What's the first official mention of the TIE not having shields? I Never really got the impression they were much different from the X-Wings in the originally films.

[@primal1233]

It's terribly corrupt

[@jamesricker3997]

That is the nature of dictatorships

[@KnightsofTuveHall]

The TIE/ln was amazing technology, a speedy and viable interceptor on the cheap, a quarter of the cost of the Incom X-wing. Its flaws are well documented, huge wings that block lines of sight, forcing pilots to rely on their instruments. The TIE interceptor was so much better, and if Grand Admiral Thrawn had been given a wider budgetary latitude, the Empire would have refit all TIE/ln models to Interceptors, with practical plans to give them the addition of hyper-drives and shield generators. Then you have the TIE Defender, it was the crowning glory of the TIE line, and it would have been devastating to Alliance forces had it gone into full production. Don't mistake me, I'm a Rebel, an Incom and a C.E.C. guy all the way, but TIE fighters are still very fun to fly! And deadly.

[@shoresean1237]

So I admin the wiki for the niche manga and anime, Elfen Lied. My point in this being a realization, that, except for the top brass, the guards at the facility holding the central McGuffin, the new species Diclonius had Snub-nosed Saturday Night Specials - effective against you and me and the people down the block, but the 'special' girls were all telekinetics - and to them these were noisemakers. When the denouement started, the whole island facility had a bunch of guards who couldn't contain normal varieties of these girls, let alone the super-breed that escaped at the end - and this was by design of the Big Bad, who was so short-sighted and delusional, Palps would slap his forehead to watch him do his thing. You can view your human resources as disposable, but this will cause them to run out - in both senses of the phrase. Odd thing was, the First Order supposedly treated its people better - or at least less completely disposable - except we now know Palps was running the whole thing again. Past Luke's withdrawal, past the sudden assertion that both sides got arms from the same place (when the Resistance were scroungers with limited funding) past the ambiguity of Finn scampering off after awakening (when the entire first film took care of that), past keeping the 'brilliant escape plan' top secret and all the rest - I cannot believe anything run by Palps could even fake being more concerned about its soldiers and pilots. Palps wanted to do it all on the super-cheap, and that's what he got.

[@Hello-bi1pm]

Would have been better if Snoke was a guy with a rogue faction who knew about Palpatine, but was more like his rogue rival.

[@eren34558]

Alan could have made a fortune as an economics professor at Harvard

[@darwinskeeper421]

I have often heard of the brilliance of the Twin-Ion Engine, but I can't help wondering why the TIE fighter line were the only spacecraft that used it. Was Siener's masterpiece come with limitations that made it ideal to a lightly built starfighter or would it have been suitable for heavier craft, including heavy bombers, light freighters and corvettes? The Twin-Ion Engine is an intriguing device, but we've only heard about its benefits and I've never heard about its faults. Why don't these engines more prominent?

[@huntermad5668]

Patents regarding that. Empire contract was lucrative enough already.

[@brendanrobertson5966]

There's a lot of "hand-wavium" in Star Wars technology, but a viable explanation could be power/weight ratio and the distribution of that power to other systems. The basic TIE is 2 solar panels (with some sort of battery), 2 ion engines and two laser cannon; they don't even have integral life support! I wouldn't want to be in one for more than a few hours. When you compare it to an X-Wing, some of those power limits become visible. It has four engines (with fuel tankage), shields, four laser cannon, two torp launchers, full life support (up to a week in RPG rules), a hyperdrive and a droid to keep powered. That's a LOT of power needs that you could never get from just two solar panels. Yet, you could only get 3-4 TIE for each X-Wing (presuming an actual efficient factory - many of the Rebellion's fighters were hand-built in garages)

[@DaveAinsworth-y8h]

The father of the creater of TiE help create the YT-1300 by CEC

[@peterkallend5012]

"TIE Fighter pilots are suicidal. TIE Defender pilots are bloodthirsty. TIE Interceptor pilots are suicidal AND bloodthirsty. You see a squadron of those lunatics coming at you, you better hope your hyperdrive is working."

[@jerrylee7898]

If TIE fighters existed, I would love to fly one.

[@varunkunchala]

The TIE never should have been an interceptor only ship, used by PDF or Stations in a defensive role. It had no business being on SD or any other attack or patrol force. The issue is that the empire tried to streamline one aspect of its production and fulfill the Tarkin doctrine by filling the space with fighters. However, the problem is that TIEs are akin to WW1 fighters like a Spowith Camel when compared to the X-Wing or even the A-Wing which are like advanced WW2 fighters akin to the P38 or the Spitfire.

[@rubber3dduck252]

Off beat question from the program but what happened the studio they worked out of and staff to fill in as needed? It looks like Allen is working out of a personal office with one other staff member.

[@ProbablyOkay]

When in doubt, change the wing shape 😂

[@thunderK5]

In having Raith Sienar design the Empire's principal fighters, Palpatine demonstrated yet again how Personnel is Policy.

[@JMPT]

Very Nice

[@TribbleArtCreations]

The TIE Fighter and TIE program in general has it's flaws, but it's still one of the best fighters and fighter programs out there. Fast, agile, great targeting systems, no munitions but had pretty powerful blasters for being sonsmall and a hard target to hit and in space....hard to see until they pop up on your radar. I would like to think they stealth panels from thr Scimitar is what eventually led to the TIE Phantom(even though it's no longer canon).

[@skyboy4341]

Do kuat driveyards next please

[@NomicFin]

For someone who spent his whole life scheming to gain ultimate power, Palpatine sure didn't really know what to actually do with that power. If he had actually focused on building a functional government instead of oppressing people in order to funnel most of the Empire's budged into massive fleets of Star Destroyers and ridiculously expensive and impractical superweapons he would never have had to deal with the Rebel Alliance. As for Raith Sienar, he doesn't strike me as a particularly bad guy; he just wanted to design starships. I get the impression that he was far more preoccupied coming up with a new wacky TIE variant every week than actually thinking about what the Empire was using all those TIEs for.

[@killingragethrowback]

I slagged the TIE Fighter a lot, and it deserves it, but I will admit Seinar did really well to build the line. Not the standard fighter, it's crap, but all it's variants and the way they performed really well for a cheap cost show that Seinar did good work. Not sure how true it is in canon, but I though an ISD needed 6 squadrons of fighters?

[@jamesanderson6769]

Both, definitely both.

[@revolrz22]

The story of the TIE fighter program is fans not having actually thought about how they are actually portrayed in the movies, and then going on to rewrite the canon while completely missing the point. In every scene where we see them fight rebel fighters, they give about as good as they get.

[@MisterRorschach90]

It really doesn’t make sense why they wouldn’t simply have more advanced fighters for the aces. I know technically they did, but not widespread and only for inquisitors and vader. The other aces seem to fly just standard tie fighters. Not advanced, or even interceptors.

[@huntermad5668]

TIE-interceptor would eventual replace all the Fighters. It is a match or more than a match to any Rebel Starfighter. The project only just started when Endor happened

[@mattthemouse1]

My fondest Star Wars memory: Me (young) : they call them TIE fighters because they look like bow ties! My mom: That's not why they call them TIE fighters"

[@taleg1]

The empire also coned their most loyal and good soldiers and pilots, so if they wasted a bunch they could just grow more... Solving that issue was what made the whole one destroyer idea possible as they could build the ships and fill them with loyal controllable crews. It makes a sick kind of sense, especially since it was also secretly part of Palpatines hunt for immortality. A lot of the development that happened during that assholes time, was actually happening for secret second reasons and not for the apparent main reason. All science was also encrypted and shipped to dark side places for safe storage and further development. Palpatine must have siphoned off vast amount of creds to create his special fabrication. Just think about it, the cloning setup, the advanced weapons and so much more, was all a part of his goal of absolute power. There's a moment in the stories where they visit the clone master and Palpatine figures out that the clones has one major fault, they were easily controlled by the force. And he loved control, he liked the idea of corrupting good people too, but it really boils doen to his childhood and what happened early on on Naboo with the Palpatine house.

[@EthanKironus8067]

Financial/material situations have long been one of the most impactful things when it comes to retaining political support or just remaining in power. Even the most morally-forthright, courageous person has to eat and sleep, and even if their morals are unshakable they can only do so much when they're homeless and starving. Then when people do finally snap, the hungrier and poorer they are the harder it is for them to overcome repressive force. Hence a general reason for the prevalence of the "middle class" (disturbing how much the French Revolution has defined Western politics and political terminology) or what we might consider as such in past societies--such terms were coined for a particular worldview and time-place, hence the caveat--in revolutions. Poor people--I phrase it this way with the intention of drawing attention to its imposition as a condition, similarly to the use of "disabled people" in lieu of person-first language--can and do "take charge of their own destinies, but even at the best of times the "middle class" is not only in a better position to resist due to, as I mentioned, their material condition typically allowing them more freedom of action, but in all the modern revolutions I've"studied" (i.e. listened to Mike Duncan's Revolutions podcast, I highly recommend it) the middle-classes were just as terrified of poor people as the elites, and thus they had that much more reason to get ahead of the proverbial curve. People are motivated by moral reasoning too, but not everyone is able to put that before material stability, and this is one of those points where we really have to work on ourselves without judging others. It demands that if and hopefully when it is appropriate for us to speak on this to others, we speak as befits their situation and never with the notion of "one size fits all."

[@EthanKironus8067]

Whew, God willing I can summon this kind of writing for university

[@BryceByerley]

Not to be a pedant, but the C in Scimitar is silent; Sim-Ih-tar.

[@smartass0124]

If much of a ship's mass is fluid then moving the fluid would move the Mass.

[@notani3533]

The Tie fighter program sounds like it could've been developed further but they prefer the bare bone version as it's disposable in term of material and human resources.

[@petehjr1]

The Empire's T-Rex Arms certainly limited its range of control.

[@Reddotzebra]

I still say the Empire should have focused a little more on the reality of fighting what is essentially a guerilla group with access to high quality fighter platforms and payed some more to manufacture and develop anti-fighter platforms for rapid deployment. If your enemy is primarily using hyperdrive equipped fightercraft and bombers to hit your space stations and convoys, a star destroyer, even one filled with fighters, is not going to offer as much protection as that same level of materiel and crew spread across a lot of smaller ships. Someone really should have tried to sell the "persistent fear for the enemy" angle of this to Tarkin, he always did enjoy thinking along those lines.

[@richardwright359]

He was a Howard Hughes of starwars

[@SomeTheorist9090]

I don't know if the starship designs are totally anyone's fault. Vader had a vision on what he wanted to be made for whatever reason--and much like modern militaries contracts go to the lowest bidder. They just seemed to be in such dire straits they offered the lowest bid. Before this video I may have believed that they were pulling the strings--now it just seems it was a lowest bidder war that set them in a better place because they were in a dire place. Although seeing the armor they switched to for their military force--it definitely seems like a lowest bidder situation that provided what or less than they paid for.

[@Harrison11106]

The TIE fighter gets as bad wrap, but it's easily the most maneuverable craft on either the Rebellion/New Republic or Empire side; only superseded by the TIE Interceptors (20% of all TIES as of the battle of Endor), TIE advanced (rare), & TIE Defenders (rare & mostly seen guarding Coruscant). The maneuverability & speed came at the cost of armor though, they were basically the Galactic Empires version of a Japanese Zero. During the Empires height they used swarm tactics to great effect. After the fall is when they needed to develop new tactics.

[@andrewbrown9981]

Imagine if Anahiem Electronics existed in Star Wars.

[@pdbouie]

I thought those vessels didnt carry firearms. Not wanting the pirates to kill the crew if the crew killed some of the pirates during the attack or something like that

[@Myrkin]

They survived 4000 years and have been struggling for a few centuries? I know many states/nations that would love to have such longevity. O_O

[@scottbraun2457]

A shockingly consistency in every multivers, with cloaked ships, is a regularly repeated flaw, in the limitation that is the inability to use weapons and shield systems when in use. You can't be hidden and shielded, or shoot..back. Variants that can, are extremely rare..and likely expensive.?..or huge and clumsy.