Genesis (and its Indo European origins) the Creation Myth of the Bible

The bible's creation myth, Genesis, is in fact based on older stories, from Egypt, the Mesopotamian myths featuring Marduk and Tiamat, and from the Proto Indo European culture's creation myth. This video discusses the evidence within the book of Genesis of the Old Testament, that show how its origins are from the Indo European creation myth, and so the origins could be considered Proto Indo European.
With thanks to those who inspired and helped me with the Herbew and biblical texts....
Dr Robert M Price
Derek Lambert of MythVision
Liran Shoham
David Anthony's book is called The Horse, the Wheel, and Language and is available from all good booksellers.
Derek at MythVision has a number of courses setup with Bart Ehrman to talk about the Bible and New Testament here;
Sign up for the 7 hour resurrection debate between Dr's Bart Ehrman & Mike Licona here
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/res...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Genesis "In The Beginning" Webinar here: www.mythvisionpodcast.com/gen...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here:
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/chr...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Did Jesus call himself God webinar: www.mythvisionpodcast.com/bart
Chapters
===============
0:00 Introduction
3:13 How we know about the Proto-Indo European Creation Myth
6:41 The Proto Indo European myth of Creation
7:22 What does this PIE myth mean?
8:35 Evidence for the Proto Indo European myth
10:19 The Fertile Crescent’s influence on the Genesis and the Bible
12:42 The Enuma Elish, the Babylonian Creation Myth
15:02 The structure of the Genesis Creation Myth
17:03 Genesis, is it really “In the beginning”?
22:52 Egyptian miracles
25:23 What the first sentence of Genesis really means
26:32 De-mythologizing the story
28:57 Creating the world
30:49 Patterns in creation
33:10 Making man in God’s image
38:17 The battle with the Primordial Being
40:52 The sacrifice of the cow
43:48 Putting all the clues together
45:30 In summary

[@Crecganford]

Are there any biblical stories you want to know about? The Flood? The rest of the creation myth? Moses?

[@jimmynelson6247]

Moses would be interesting.

[@OblateSpheroid]

Possible origin of YHWH as a Indo-European storm god.

[@Crecganford]

@@OblateSpheroid Yes, Marduk had Wind as a power, and so this aligns well, but with YHWH also meaning heavenly father, he could align to the Sky Father. But these considerations are for another video.

[@psema4]

All of it :) Seriosly though, yes. The rest of the creation myth (like the items you mention around the 45 minute mark), the Flood, and Moses would all be amazing. A deeper look into Noah's ancestors, Enoch or the Watchers would also be particularly interesting.

[@Crecganford]

@@psema4 Yes, Enoch is especially interesting, but I will do them all over time :) Thank you

[@mathish1477]

I'm an evolutionary biologist. In the main, I study cultural evolution in bird songs (non human animal linguistics essentially). I love how you traverse history, myth, and culture, in a way perfectly compatible with the scientific format while being so entertaining - excellent work!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your kind words, they are much appreciated.

[@josep1001001]

>I'm an evolutionary biologist no cap nigga? i'm 1 to dawg shiiiit!!! Nigga wat you no about the steps cu?

[@ronniesunshine1115]

That's an interesting field of study. I heard (I think from Michael Wood's TV series "The Story of India") that certain chants from priests in Kerala India have no known meaning and their closest analogue is in bird song. Is that true?

[@Yamikaiba123]

Oh, do you work with Prof. Jon Sakata? He's the one who persuaded me to pursue Evolutionary Musicology at McGill! I work on the Phylogeography of biblical Hebrew chant.

[@mathish1477]

@@Yamikaiba123 no I'm in Australian university

[@ramonav.6983]

Fascinating! My grandfather lived in other times when, instead of going to school, he had to work from the age of 13 (woodcutter). He was an avid reader. My grandfather had a gift for making connections between stories and existing words in various languages. I listened to him fascinated and eager to learn more. With each video of yours, I relive those moments full of a special, unforgettable charm, now on an academic level. Thanks!

[@jtzoltan]

Crecganford is seriously charming in his soft/soothing delivery, storytelling and connecting history and prehistory

[@dancoles2235]

Your grandfather had a rare and important gift. Jonathan (ccreganford) has it too. I'm joyful that you saw it and are able to pass some of that blessing from your own genetics by simply pointing it out as something of value. When you revere the stories of our ancestors instead of dismissing them as nonsense, it grants a liberty that brings wisdom. It allows us to see lessons from our ancestors that were told not just to entertain, but to teach because they loved us. By accurately personifying concepts as characters, they were able to give us symbolism to learn lessons learned otherwise through years of experience, if ever! The art of storytelling was like tribal training that continued beyond the daily work of active and mobile ancestors late into the night by the campfire, understanding that the children would need to learn for the good of the continuation of the tribe.

[@cecileroy557]

It seems that your grandfather had a VERY high level of intelligence! You were so lucky to have had him in your life. And - it seems you inherited his love of learning!

[@elihinze3161]

This is, no joke, the fastest I've ever subscribed to a channel. I've been fascinated by Proto Indo Europeans ever since I first heard about them, grew up obsessed with ancient mythology, and am endlessly fascinated by theology, language, and early human history, so your channel is an absolute gold mine! I've added basically every one of your videos to my "to watch" list, lol Thank you for sharing your resources, too! I've written 6 Mesopotamian Fantasy books, and have other books in the works that draw from Vedic and PIE belief. Finding good scholarship is hard, though, so well-researched videos like these are indispensable. Thank you!!! 🙏

[@Crecganford]

Wow, such kind words, thank you so much for watching and your support :)

[@KebaRPG]

This is the Third Video of his I watch; but Love the Scholarly approach as someone studying comparative religion/mythos.

[@moodist1er]

Indo European is a modern term that describes millennium's worth of migration and communication. There's no such thing as an indo European. This dood is a weirdo.

[@t.r.everstone7]

Seriously? Anywhere I can find them? I've just started writing my first novel (fantasy that shows the links between all mythologies and focuses on the story of Orpheus and Euridice). But I write all genres, including some Mesopotamian myth being thrown into several stories, so I would love to read yours!

[@jfv65]

I can also recommend 'Dan Davis author' channel. He writes and narrates historically based fictional stories. His stories about the PIE and bronze age are absolutely magical.

[@melindad180]

🌞Definitely want you to talk about garden of Eden, the tree of life verses the tree of knowledge, quest for knowledge/mortality, Eve not tempting Adam, apple not being an apple, etc

[@Crecganford]

That's on my list of videos to do :) Thank you for watching and your support

[@cacashosho1]

Melinda, I would not take the biblical stories in a literal sense. When you said apple not being an apple I was like 😑 haha. Even Adam and Eve we can say there was a first mother and first father but Eve literally means “Life” and Adam means “Man” but in a huMan sense or Mankind sense and not in a biological sex sense. We can make inferences from there accordingly.

[@melindad180]

@@cacashosho1 I don't take the 66 books and their stories literally. I was just repeating what he said, because I wanted him to know that I was interested in his perspective on those issues. Open minded. 'More interesting that way. 😉

[@3rdeye671]

@@cacashosho1 I've heard that the name Eve comes from the ancient Hebrew word "Hava", that means "whore". Also the word for 'Tree' in ancient Hebrew can also mean 'Group' or 'Council'.

[@3rdeye671]

@@cacashosho1 you would be correct though in your interpretation of Ad'am referring to a population, not a single person. Although the name refers to 'red & earth' being a combination of the two words put together. But a review and comparison of major creation mythologies around the world show man was created out of "dust, clay, mud, earth and soil", these are all sediments, which alludes to us being called a derogatory term that refers to us being likened to "dirt", the stuff the Gods/God tread upon beneath their feet.

[@luciusiluvatar7357]

Fascinating analysis. I've always figured the story of Cain and Abel is also a partial reflex of the myth of one primordial twin killing the other at the beginning of time.

[@jaimeXDgo]

Man, non of your videos is anything less than fascinating, but this one ties so orderly so many elements of current religions and the oldest stories we know of, and in such an articulate manner. The time we're living in may have it's downsides, but being able to ingest such super concentrated wisdom is a privilege no other before could indulge. Keep it up, Jon!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching the videos and your kind words. They are appreciated.

[@waynemyers2469]

I can already sense some of the elements of the Genesis story being shared with the Norse version of creation, things like the dragon (serpent) and the tree. Will you explore these shared elements in a future video? I've just got to thank you once more for your erudite and nuanced telling of these ancient tales and their links to modern people and languages. This is, to me, the most important and fascinating channel available on KZbin.

[@Crecganford]

I have touched on those Old Norse mythological tales in separate videos, but not as an analogue of Genesis, but that sounds like a marvellous idea. I shall put that on my todo list. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.

[@waynemyers2469]

@@Crecganford Thank you, I look forward to that video.

[@larrywestra9305]

@@Crecganford I have seen that most creation story’s are related. In the Norse creation story it begins with the watery void as well. Adam Kadmon of Judaism is the same as the Norse Ymir.

[@rodrigomachado5291]

Your delivery and explanations is at the same time didactic, engaging and down-to-earth. Loving all the videos.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@scimitarstyle]

The "him" reference of the deep and the dragon you talk about at the end is a link to the leventine myths of baal (levantine storm god) who splits his adversary yam (sea) and his dragon, leviathan, in half. As a fellow myth hunter of this region, i love this video and it's filling in some of the gaps in the knowledge. When you get a chance you might want to investigate the hyksos, "canaanite" religion, and some of the myths which came out of ugarit. There are hurrian, proto armenian, and local levantine underpinnings mixed with their own mixing of indo european myths before the babylonian contact. Anyways love the stuff and keep on going!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, I'm reading about Ugartic mythology right now :)

[@TheMunchkinita2509]

​@Crecganford quick question. When "god said let there be light," could that not also be alluding to the fire that the older god shot down the dragon's throat?

[@MindfulPompous]

Your logic and content is a breath of fresh air! I could pick your brain for hours! Keep breaking down these ideologies and stories, the masses aren't hearing this info EVER and are completely lost with out it. Again, thank you 🙏

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment such compliments. They are much appreciated and make my work a pleasure to do.

[@vampiricagorist6979]

Your channel is seriously underrated. I just found it and I’m so happy to know that someone is doing what you’re doing here. This is incredibly interesting and you genuinely deserve millions of subs.

[@Crecganford]

Thank yo so much for your kind words. If you had arrived two months ago it was ten times smaller!

[@juneroberts5305]

I discovered your channel only recently (stroke of luck if ever there was one), and would like to say that I find your responses to negative comments so extraordinarily polite and non-combative that I wanted to mention it. Some academics are so convinced of their own greatness that they do not tolerate those that do not agree with them. I also want to congratulate you on your patience with questions/remarks from people who just got interested in this particular field. That's enough *rse kissing for now, so will save congratulating you on a superb channel for later... 😅😅

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for watching, and you're kind words. However, I do occasionally am less tolerable dependent on the level of insult thrown towards me, but I do try to be polite in the hope they will respond in a more becoming manner.

[@aenesidemus8819]

Hey! Nice to see Derek in the description box. I often see him on the Digital Gnosis channel. His chats are quite fun to listen to.

[@ralphyetmore]

Just discovered you when looking through Dr. Carrier interviews. Great interview, and I appreciate your documentation of these posts. Great stuff. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching :)

[@M0VI3GUY]

Well you have definitely been added to my list of good lectures to listen to. I have no idea what the videos are like because I listen while working, but you cover a lot of related facts with the main subject you are talking about, something I love. Simply saying "this is what it is" is not enough, I love hearing "this is HOW we know it is" as well as "these are related to the thing we know that is".

[@DanielSueloMoneylessWorld]

Fascinating, thanks. This is helping me (an amateur) put even more pieces of the puzzle together. I have a strong hunch that the Genesis creation and Noah's Flood and the Jonah story, as well as many other Biblical stories, are retellings of one even more ancient myth, but in different forms. And I've a hunch that not only are these Genesis/Deluge/Jonah myths a retelling of this single myth, and not only are they a combination of Indo-European, Semitic, and Egyptian myths (as you point out), but also they contain vestiges of the Altaic/Asiatic Earth Diver creation myth (which spread to North America and farther, indicating it is tens of thousands of years old), and African mythology, where the first seeds began. Only recently did I discover the work of Slavic folklorists, which shows Slavic Christianity and Islam seemed to recognize this and re-integrated the dualistic Earth Diver myth back into Christianity and Islam in obvious form! What's interesting about the Bible is it began not only between Babylon and Egypt but at the very bottleneck crossroads of the spread of world mythologies out of Africa into all the continents. So we see vestiges of many, if not most, the world's myths, including Australian, seeping through in the Bible. We think of Egyptian, Akkadian, and Sumerian myths as super ancient, because they are the oldest written literature, but, really, they are really young compared to the pre-literate oral myths that are tens of thousands of years old found in the farthest ends of Australia and South America, many with themes cropping up in the relatively really young Bible. Ancient world myths together gave birth to the Bible. Anyway, just more intriguing nuggets that might maybe inspire you even further in making your videos.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and taking the time to write such a great comment.

[@DanielSueloMoneylessWorld]

@@Crecganford Your videos are superb. Thanks for offering your treasures to the world.

[@rb-pk8ds]

I attended my grandma's church a a child, doing bible school ... I had questions, apparently too many so I was advised to read the bible. I was told I would find all the answers there ... I just found more questions. This is so eye and mind opening!!! I am enjoying your channel immensely, and I really appreciate the pointers to reference or further study material. :-)

[@F_Karnstein]

I'm absolutely loving this! I had no idea how many parallels there actually are... or that Auðumbla and Tiamat not only seem to derive from the same concept (🤯) but that this is also hidden in the Torah! Now excuse me while i binge through more of your content!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It really helps the channel. Thank you.

[@asmartasur2992]

Best video I've watched for a long time. Thanks for taking time to share all that info so plainly & succinctly. I really look forward to other videos to come. Cheers!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for those kind words, it really is appreciated

[@herjikolbrunarson8385]

Love your channel mate. Look forward to see it grow. But I highly advice you work on your audio production. Good audio is one of the most vital part of this kind of narration videos

[@Crecganford]

Yes, thank you. It is getting better I think, but I will continue to improve it :)

[@catherinehartmann1501]

Yes! Talk about those two trees in Eden and where that story came from! Loved this one. Your videos do more than provide the type of context others present - You and Niel Oliver put us there with all the meaningful referents that put us in the middle of life that is familiar.

[@jared5834]

Awesome video! Just a suggestion, may want to adjust the audio gate on your mic to make it sound a bit less choppy. Thanks for the info!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and yes, the audio does cut out so I'll do that in the future :)

[@honved1]

That was more than interesting mate, top quality. I’m binging your vids this weekend

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, your kind words are very much appreciated

[@fireflywalter9053]

Love the depth and detail and synthesis. Please do a video on Adam and Eve!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, yes, a video on the first humans in the creation myths would be interesting. I'll put that on my list :)

[@marcbaxter7460]

Very interesting, thank you. In hearing you mention Tiamat's cow-like features, I wondered if the worship of the Golden Calf was an indication of relic belief in "children of Tiamat" after her death to create the world. Perhaps a sect or secret belief passed down parallel to Judaism within the culture. (Just speculation as I have no in depth knowledge; the idea just jumped out at me. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks for the amazing content.

[@jeffmcclure2603]

Great content - The Excellent depth. Appreciate just how much time and effort you’ve spent on such an expansive subject

[@Crecganford]

Thanks for watching Jeff, I appreciate your kind words

[@cecileroy557]

I am sooo glad I found your site!! This is one of the most informative, well done videos I've ever seen! I subscribed immediately, of course!!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much.

[@rtv59]

It has always amazed me how the Bible creation of Eden and the creational myth of Tavashtar/Vishwakarma has so many similarities and how the story of Sanjana/Saranyu, Surya/Vivasvat, and Savarni/Chaya looks so much like the story of Lilith, Adam and Eve. I guess they were taking bit and pieces from other stories all throughout history and the other way around too. That's very probable, though I don't know enough about the topic to track Hebrew contacts with indo-iranian and vedic stories. I guess al keep on watching more of your videos. Thanks. 😁

[@hulakan]

First, a semantic quibble: 12:20 "the Sumerian empire". While Sumer was one of the oldest, if not the oldest, civilization, arising in the fourth century BCE, it was never an "empire". While the highest prestige, the "me" shifted from city to city, no one city ever had hegemonic power over all the others. The first empire was that of Sargon of Accad that arose in the second half of the third century BCE. Second, a historic quibble: 13:00 The 'Enuma Elish' was "told" by the Sumerians. It almost certainly was not. The Sumerian creation myth is quite different. The creator deity was the goddess "Nammu", characterized as the eternal primordial sea. She gave birth to "An" (heaven) and "Ki" (earth) who in turn gave birth to "Enlil" (air) and "Enki" (fresh water) who created man. Rather than depicted as an evil dragon, she bore the titles "Ama Gal" (great mother) and "Amma palilutu dingir sharshar ake ne" (mother ancestor who gave birth to all the gods.) While Tiamat was influenced by Nammu, and Marduk by Enlil, the Enuma Elish seems to have appeared in first Babylonian dynasty in the second century BCE, at at time when Marduk became the national god, as it were, of Babylon. Some scholars regard it more a piece of Babylonian political propaganda than religious text. Thirdly, it would seem to be quite natural that Hebrew myth would share similarities with Babylonian and Egyptian myth because all three peoples were speakers of Afro-Asiatic languages, which is, as far as I know, generally accepted as the oldest known language family. (Also, it might be a bit misleading to speak of the Egyptian creation myth because there were a number of different Egyptian creation myths originating from different cities.) Finally, while your video is very interesting and (for the most part) informative, I am rather skeptical of cultural diffusion, especially when it comes to stories. Human psychology is human psychology wherever and whenever people exist. Consider the stories of the hero's descent into the underworld to retrieve a loved one only to fail because of ignoring the warning to not look back; it appears in Sumerian Gilgamesh's descent to rescue Enkidu, in the Greek Orpheus and Eurydice, and in the Japanese myth of Izanagi and Izanami. There is also the legend of the hero who meets a powerful wild man who blocks his path, and the two fight then become close friends: Sumerian Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Japanese Yoshitsune and Benkei, English Robin Hood and Little John. Given that Sumerian was an extinct language at the time the corresponding stories appeared in Europe, and neither culture had contact with the Japanese at the time these stories appeared, it's fairly clear that a lot of different people tell the same stories without having heard them from each other.

[@tychocollapse]

Two references are wrong. You state a 4th century bce and a 2nd century bce for two periods, but these dates are wrong. Sumerian way prior to 4th and Babylonian prior to 2nd.

[@hulakan]

@@tychocollapse Your are correct. I wrote "century" but meant "millennium" in both cases.

[@erisu69]

Just recently discovered this channel and it was an immediate subscribe from me. The few videos I've watched so far offer a really fascinating insight into PIE culture and mythology, this video in particular being a super interesting topic that I hadn't considered before. If you don't know it already, the channel 'Dan Davis History' makes similar videos about Bronze Age European society, and while his period of interest may be slightly later than yours, I'm sure you would get something worthwhile out of taking a look. In any case, thanks for making this knowledge accessible by sharing it on KZbin, you're doing incredibly valuable work. Also, I have to ask: where did you get that Venus of Willendorf statue? Every time I see it in the background I want one!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your support, and taking the time to comment. I am aware of Dan's work, and do subscribe to him. As for the venus figures, I have a friend in a museum who takes casts of these: If you search ebay you may find he sells some occasionally.

[@brothergoodfoot]

This is wonderful content, and I love it. But if you'll allow some honest audience feedback: the noise gate on this audio sounds crazy! I don't know if you're using a cheap microphone or what is causing the noise issue. But with this size audience, you deserve pro quality sound. Try to fix the noise at the source, using a good mic and a good interface. If you must mitigate noise in post production, try an "expander" which is less severe than a gate- it won't 100% mute the signal between words, so it's not as obvious.

[@Crecganford]

Thakn you for your feedback. This was recorded a long time ago in a noisy environment. Things are much better now.

[@alejandronilamendez4151]

Thank you so much for bringing so much light to what we thought we knew, but obviously, we didn´t. Continue with your work based on academic knowledge, and lots of intelligent deductive approach.

[@SomasAcademy]

This is a very interesting analysis, but a lot of it seems a bit speculative - I think you make a compelling case about the influence of Mesopotamian religion on the Jewish creation myth, but the connections between the Enuma Elish and the PIE creation myth, while intriguing, don't seem so clear-cut as to represent definitive proof of common origin. Additionally, even provided that these parallels are due to common origin, they may still reflect something other than IE influence in Near Eastern religion; the Yamnaya people (the most probable candidate for the speakers of Proto Indo-European) drew around half of their ancestry from the Caucasus region, i.e. a region directly between their Pontic-Caspian steppe homeland and Mesopotamia. Considering that, I don't think we can confidently attribute similarities to Indo-European influence over influence from a common ancestral religion (though I would certainly not suggest this possibility is more likely, considering how long Indo-European peoples had been present in the Near East prior to our earliest written versions of the Enuma Elish). Tangential to your main point, but your brief aside about the gender of "chaos dragon" figures was especially questionable; you suggest that dragons were universally viewed as female across all human societies, but of the thre examples you list, two come from a single culture (Echidna and Medusa), one of those two is married to a male figure who could easily be considered as much of a "chaos dragon" as her (Echidna, with her husband Typhon, a great chimeric creature much like Echidna but larger, associated with elemental powers, and treated as a significant rival to Zeus in parallel to the great serpents fought by Thunder gods in other Indo-European mythologies (Jormungandr in Norse mythology and Vrtra in Vedic mythology, both also male, by the way)), and the third example you cite is Quetzalcoatl... an Aztec deity who is very much male, and not at all associated with chaos. I found that aside very strange.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and taking your time to comment. Well made points, and there is only so much I can cover in a video. In short I agree that just because we can trace something back to PIE, doesn't mean it was the original source, although the connection of Tiamat to the cow is more than speculative. As for dragons, I do need to make a video just on that subject, although it would be focused on IE based mythology as opposed to world mythology.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

Your point on Caucasian ancestry of Yamnaya is particularly apt given we know that the Ubaidians and those before have been trading with Caucasians. Infact, some think the Maykop are either the origin or the first split of Indo-European and the Maykop traded heavily with Mesopotamia and even if Maykop aren't Indo-European, they still traded heavily with Yamnaya, so there's a clear link source. If there's any influence its coming out of Mesopotamia.

[@gigaya777]

during the first migration between Africa and europe/asia we can find the oldest temple and it was used and worship for several centuries it was located in the trade route of several civs, so for several centuries Europe and the old Mesopotamia including middle east shared a single myth and from there they evolve I am talking about the Göbekli Tepe temple

[@kenhutley971]

Thank you Jonathon for contributing to my edification and further understanding. Greatly appreciated I'd like you to know!

[@Crecganford]

You're welcome.

[@jeffatwood9417]

This is impressive. There are other details that can be added, but you do a good job bringing things together. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and you r kind words.

[@jeffatwood9417]

@@Crecganford when I have time, I’ll go through it taking notes because your research and mine would be a great combination for understanding. 🙏

[@ChrissieBear]

Please do more videos on Abrahamic mythology, this was great!

[@Crecganford]

I will, flood myths and leviathan myths are in the process of being made. Thank you for watching and your support.

[@garyhaberfield]

Deep topic, rational questions asked, nice production quality, you look familiar, have I seen you in anything else?

[@Crecganford]

Gaz! Good to see you here, we shall talk soon. Although I know I keep saying that, but we will!

[@keirenroberts2588]

I accidentally stumbled across your channel and I love your videos dude.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching them, and your kind words, they are appreciated.

[@JackMyersPhotography]

This is a great subject to discuss, your videos are so well done and researched. It helped me clear up even more inconsistencies in the Genesis tale. For me, Daniel Quinn’s books were a big breakthrough in understanding the two conflicting world views in Genesis. The first time I read Genesis it seemed to contradict itself and Quinn makes it clear why. I suppose he was specifically referring to the Kurgan wave bringing gods that supplanted the regional syncretic gods by replacing them with invader sky gods who saw all others as devils. What I’ve found over the years is that the average Born Again Christian has no desire to explore the true and known historical underpinnings of their beliefs and systems. It’s discouraged by their leaders.

[@mariadelpilarllona4753]

Finally somebody who connect indoeuropean with Hebrew someway. I love it

[@Crecganford]

Thank you. There is without doubt influence, and I will make a clearer video on this as soon as time allows, as there is other evidence too showing Christianity literally retelling Indo-European myths.

[@MDBowron]

through comparative mythology, I've read that six different cultures (Babylonian, Greco-Roman, Norse, Daoist Chinese, Indian Hinduism, and Abrahamic Religions) have also ironically eight things in common: formation of world from a void, a duality, a trinity, a creation of humans, a war in heavens, a flood, a saviour and a repopulation. There are also four stages in mythology in the Worlds of the Hopi, the Yugas of Hinduism, the Ages of Greco-Roman, the Abrahamic religion from Creation to Flood, the Chinese Dynastic cycle and even the Strauss-Howe Generational phases, which seem very similar, may suggest to a global cycle from cooling to ice age to warming to greenhouse ages, which may suggest a single origin of stories, like how they think all languages could have originated from a single language.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, there is much commonality in the creation myths

[@somefuckstolemynick]

Isn’t really that shocking, since all religions are trying to explain the same underlying reality (proto-science almost). All these were directly inspired by natural phenomenons or common human struggles and situations. Add to that the fact that all humans share a common ancestry at some point, and we’ve always been connected to some degree through migration and trade it would be weirder if we _couldn’t_ find any such similarities.

[@cyan1616]

This is really good. You cover so many parallels. I've been trying to watch as many of your videos as I can when I have time. Have you done anything on the "Forgotten Books of Eden", or the "Lost books of the Bible"? After reading the stories about Adam and Eve leaving the garden (Book of Enoch I think) and what happened to them, I am a little convinced that some parts of it describe the evolution of man. I think if you read it already you know the parts I am talking about, if you haven't read it, you should, it's amazing stuff. I would absolutely love to see your take on it. Thanks so much for all the wonderful content!

[@Crecganford]

Hi, I haven't produced anything specifically about them, but I am pondering touching on some of the issues the Dead Sea Scrolls bring to the bible.

[@josephjoestar8934]

This video was so good, please make more talking about the garden, subscribed : D

[@Crecganford]

I am working on that and I should release in the coming months.

[@bryanburnside9783]

I love this presentation. And, shall incorporate your story into the many concepts I have collected over the last half century. What I want to communicate in this comment is that there is another side of the coin. My background comes from a passion for physics, Einstein Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. That led to an education in Radiation Physics which was the basis of my career in Nuclear Medicine. From that I saw the paradox of the nature of matter being far more than just the wave-particle scenario. A zero point universe of fields and pulsating energy with origins and functionality total glossed over and not understood at all by our modern approach. Being a student of humanity I began a long process of self education to understand our origins and history. But, though trying to see the big picture, anthropology was not an area I put a lot of time into. (Too much info, so little time) Which gives me such an appreciation for your story. As my study brought me to similarities of culture around the world. I saw the understanding of the reality of spirit by all cultures and shamanism as a commonality. To which all of your stories seem to be based and understood. But, here is where we differ. I perceive your approach is from a strictly orthodox reductionist perspective. That biology created mind and mind created myth. And mine from the position that the physical matter must be manifested from a source we have yet to understand. And then I had several encounters with intelligent spiritual beings. Damn scary at first! And That forced me to look more at the why of the whole thing. Particularly the belief systems of those ancient people. And, how that could, or if, it could relate to the paradoxes of Physics. Then the Big Whammy of spirit being encounters happened. In the midst of my anger at the injustices of our existence I was touched to the very core of my being by a loving God who said "Choose Me". I did, and he gave me a very special gift. For just a few hours, I could see the hidden realm all around me, filled with beings both angelic and demonic. I know how insane that sounds, but I am NOT insane. Trust me, I had myself tested and was evaluated to be fully sane by professionals. Needless to say that transformed the direction and purpose of my studies. I then looked for the links within history and physics to this reality. The premise became; if this God is the true creator and he (or them or it) had revealed the truth of spirit there must be evidence of the revelation throughout man's existence. And that brought me back to Shamanism. How did this work? To which I found two commonalities. First; the identification and training of "sensitives". Persons who were in touch, by some means, to the "other side". This is still practiced in Shamanic cultures today. And second; The use of altered states. Ever wonder why the ancients went deep into caves to make their paintings? Because it was there they could enter altered states and commune with their ancestors and benevolent spirits. How about the oldest form of religious worship, The trance dance, ie; The serpent cave of Botswana as a 70,000 yo site still used today by the oldest familials to all people on our planet, the San. And how about trance dance mentioned in the Bible 1 Samuel 19:19-24. I have entered those altered states. And then there was/is use of psychoactive substances, which was common across the Indo-European peoples. Which brings me to how I interpret my experience. When you began with Gen 1:1 your first statement was about the position of God to his creation, that he was pre-existent, and how that was crucial to the narrative that made the Hebrew text unique. I came to that very conclusion. But, here is my twist from the perspective of the reality of spirit; "the heavens and the earth" is the Duality of our universe, Matter and Spirit, that we exist within. The "light" and the "darkness" then becomes the metaphor used throughout the Bible for God or "good" and Satan or "evil'. I know the name "Satan' is an addition from a later period, I'm using it as the fallen being God separated from himself and entrapped within the created universe at the point of creation. That comes from many sources and correlates with your Myth hypothesis. But for my perspective of duality it becomes the source of entropy within our physical world and explains suffering and destruction. As well as the reality of the antidote to entropy, which is life. The "void" of Gen 1:1 is the absence of God in the creation. First was the "darkness" encompassing the creation. Saying the chaos was dominant. You saw that too. Then the spirit of God enters the creation as "Light" which is "good" and the living creatures are "good". I can not help but think of the statement of Christ "None but the Father are good". The source, therefore, of the power behind the energy and fields we find in Physics can be interrupted as the direction of input of spirit to matter and the reality of consciousness as the connection of all life to that source. I fully believe it is this being of chaos, still alive within the spirit realms, that is responsible for the corruption we see so prevalent around us. As a medical professional for 40 years the realities of the immense complexity of even the simplest of cells and the absolutely critical creation and folding of proteins that is pre-programmed into the DNA of those cells and the ability to reproduce them accurately in it's progeny tells me there MUST be a source of incredible information that existed before those cells could be animated. It could not be possible to spontaneously produce that kind of system within a universe dictated by entropy. Bottom Line: To understand the Myths and the people you have spent your life time studying you need to see them as intelligent, not primitive, and capable of understanding a reality so many have closed their minds to. They had 10's of thousands of years of accumulated culture behind them as resource and the means to verify that culture. We are looking at fragments of that culture and making guesses. Their reality still exists. Science may get to a point of understanding. But then it is still a matter of personal acceptance. I think the crux for me is that from my adolescence I have used my father's adage "When you think you know, you cease to continue to learn". I know nothing (that goes for all of us) and must be open to all possibilities to learn. I thank you for allowing me to learn from your hard work and dedication. I hope you can learn from mine.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and for leaving such a considered comment.

[@davidgiancoli2106]

Bryan, I admire the search you have made throughout your life, your career in medicine helping others, and your willingness to share what you have learned. You are not alone in your thinking. The very existence of the universe and the miracle of life is proof of a higher power and a greater intelligence than we will ever be able to understand. In our ignorance, let us be humble, patient and kind. Namaste and peace!

[@tychocollapse]

I'm sure you're a nuclear med tech, basically a nurse, and know nothing substantial about quantum mechanics. That's usually a sign (alleged interest in quantum mechanics) that the person is a new agey wishful thinker, aka, a liar. After 40 years working, you want to believe you are special so you can receive a few compliments. Probably. If not, and you are a spiritually chosen genius, good for you. But, if you aren't using it to advance humankind or knowledge, then your story is pointless. Better hurry up because you have maybe 20 more years to make it happen and commenting on KZbin won't do much to help it.

[@bryanburnside9783]

@@tychocollapse How dare you! Making blanket statements about me is absurd. First, Nuclear Medicine technologist are not a nurse. It is a field certified by the Nuclear Medicine Certification Board and Regulated by the Radiologic Society of North America. I began with a degree in Radiation Safety and Radioactive Materials handling, as well as a diploma in Radiologic Technology, Registered in Radiography, CT and Nuclear Medicine. I said I have a passion for Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, indicating personal study on the subjects. There is NOTHING New Age about me or my experiences. I ready don't care what you believe. If IQ is any indicator of genius, mine is 154. That puts me in the top .1%. Genius is what you do with it. I have designed, built and flown my own aircraft. Applying creativity for the benefit of others and making dreams come true has been my life's work. What have you done? Dude, I'm 71 with terminal cancer, if I have 20 weeks I'll be happy. That fact I did not put in my comment. But the truth is as one approaches ones own mortality seeing thru the veil becomes easier. Spirit is Real! Death has no fear for me. You, Sir, can stick it!

[@zilchnilton]

Not sure about Yemo (maybe Yama?) but Manus sounds like the Manas (mind) of the Vedas where you get terms like Manvantara, Manu, Manasaputra's (sons of mind) etc. The city or kingdom you mentioned could be the 'city of nine gates' (the body). Regarding the different beings sacrificed that you mentioned, from a Vedic perspective the whole manifestation is seen as a sacrifice & in some texts the chief or primordial being is described as "food" which equates to energy. One term for the primordial being is Aditi, who 'eats up everything' as soon as the One becomes differentiated by the process of naming & objectifying the contents of the once formless 'waters'. This goes back to the myth of the eternal battle between the sun & dragon/serpent, Indra & Vritra...the serpent eating its own tail.

[@Crecganford]

Thanks for watching, and your thoughts. My next video will be about the dragon/serpent myth, and where it comes from. This will probably be out in the next week or two, and will clarify some of the points you've raised, and so I'll look forward to your thoughts on that too :)

[@zilchnilton]

@@Crecganford cool I'll definitely be watching it.

[@Dwg256]

85475

[@PlayerScave]

In my language word for man is "manusa"

[@bardmadsen6956]

That was really fun to watch, I see I past up some detains, thanks. At 45:00 Centuries - Millennia. Wasn't it in the Tiamat story about the Hero showing how he can make a cloak appear and vanish by command? Yes, do more and I would request the Trees! Is it just me or is Genesis the only cosmology that makes Man from dust instead of clay pointing to the other obvious reversal of orders from borrowed material? Also globally there are a multiple of Ages such as the Mesoamerican stages of creating Man alike the fire from the sky deluge reducing Man to the last two or small group. Great stuff, subscribed.

[@TheYgds]

I very much appreciate this video. I've always been curious as to the academic take on the origin of the Genesis creation narrative. I fundamentally agree that the creation myth of Genesis cannot be the most primordial form of the myth, and I love how you've broken this down. This is coming from someone who is a believing Christian, of the LDS denomination. Our mythology is significantly more elaborate than that of other Christians, and reflects better, although heavily Christianized, the more primordial Indo-European myth. I am very glad I found your videos and I'll be binging them for a good while. It is refreshing to listen to an analysis of Jewish mythology from an academic perspective that is done in good faith. I am particularly fascinated by the identification of Tiamat within the formless materials that preceded the Earth's creation in the myth. It helps to understand the reason why Tiamat herself (the Beast from over the horizon), and Tiamat-like entities (The Dragon) show-up in Revelation, and helps show the poetic deconstruction of the world as it systematically reverts to those more ancient entities that were used to create the world in the Jewish understanding of the myth. Absolutely some of the best content on youtube. Although, one fact doesn't seem to be right. You stated that Quetzalcoatl was represented as female in Aztec culture. I can find only evidence that Quetzalcoatl was a masculine/male deity. Although, the feathered serpent, often symbolically associated with Quetzalcoatl seems to have been feminine in some contexts. At least according to my limited knowledge. Willing to be corrected. Still, an interesting international feature to have feminine serpent entities, but an odd exception in the Jewish myth.

[@faarsight]

I'm very skeptical that the Indo-European creation myth influenced the Sumerian creation myth. If anything you would expect the reverse. It's stretching the timeline quite a bit to assume an indo-european presence in the fertile crescent early enough.

[@Crecganford]

And that’s a fair point, but then I would expect the Indo European Mythology to have more serpents than cow stories in the various creation myths.

[@tzeentchvonsheo9868]

Great video! I've watched a few of your videos and recalled something peculiar. Are you familiar with mesoamerican mythology? There's a creation story involving a primordial fish\crocodile, Cipactli, dwelling in water. And then one of the main gods, Tezcatlipoca, lured the crocodile by sacrificing his leg, afterwards the gods create earth using the crocodile's body parts. Also something I recalled, though it has nothing to do with the topic: I think a lot of human cultures the right is considered to be good most of the time, whilst the left is considered to be erroneous. For example dexter\sinister are right\left in latin, in modern english sinister means something evil. If I remember correct same is true for sino-tibetan and semitic languages. So, do you now any myths where right\left sides of some deity are important and maybe in conflict or smth like that?

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching, and I'm not so familiar with it, and definitely not to the level where I could teach about the cosmogony etc, but I will look at specific stories if there is demand.

[@TheSWolfe]

Well-told! Re-watched to prevent what initially seeped in from soon leaking out. Thanks for this!

[@jhake67]

the contents of this you tube channel is mind boggling and amazing! brilliant!!!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much!

[@samuelbattershell3413]

40:10, Quetzalcoatl is male, as are the other Feathered Serpent deities of Pre-Comblian Americas

[@bencopeland3560]

Even if I buy into the cognates I’m not sure it follows that the near eastern myths inherited their elements from the PIE’s versus the other way around. Or perhaps both drew on some earlier myth originating in a presumed nostratic people

[@dakrontu]

I have never learned more about the creation story at any time than I have learned from this video. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Wow, such kind words, thank you very much or watching

[@geeblenhoff1]

I love this idea. Very interesting indeed. I’m definitely a subscriber to your channel now want to dive deep into this.

[@zaciroth]

Non proto Indo-European, but I wouldnt mind seeing a Indo-European breakdown of Christanity. Enjoying your work so far.

[@Crecganford]

Richard Carrier explains it in the last interview I had with him, but will do a summary when I can. Thanks for watching and your support! :)

[@zaciroth]

@@Crecganford Oh okay I'll look at that one. I have written a book on Indo-European spirituality and comparative religion and I run a blog / website. I am probably going to share your channel this week or a video or two.

[@Crecganford]

@@zaciroth Cool, and if you ever want to talk about anything feel free to email me @crecganford.com and we can sort something out.

[@bijoydasudiya]

Christianity can never be Indo European. It's inherently Semitic in origin. Only St. Paul transformed it into Trinity from Unitarian and changed liturgy from Aramaic to Latin. Also started idol worship contrary to the commandment of Moses.

[@Crecganford]

@@bijoydasudiya I agree as Christianity is not Genesis, but it is an off-shoot of the Abrahamic religion, a religion I show is linked to the Proto Indo Europeans. It may be best to say that PIE/Christianity are more like 2nd or 3rd cousins as opposed to siblings.

[@llt8101]

I would love to see him and the Welsh Viking do a video together!

[@Crecganford]

I'm not sure I know who the Welsh Viking is, but I shall look them up!

[@vrixphillips]

Fascinating video! Very interesting :D Quetzalcoatl was determinedly male, though. Just a small correction. Can't wait to see more on your channel :D

[@juliakayaho3287]

I wish you’d read the whole Bible out loud-your voice is so glorious! I could listen to you all day long 😊

[@ancapftw9113]

After listening to that creation myth, I feel like I might want to incorporate part of the proto-indo european creation myth into the creation myth lore of a game i'm writing. I already have a creation god named Xirkos who, because the gods got bored in their realm, creates the universe, with other deities working together to make worlds, stars, water, atmospheres, and life/death. So, maybe I make the creator a hermaphrodite (already plan on having many species, including humanoids, have them occasionally naturally occur). They can then sacrifice part of themselves to create the universe. Maybe a piece of their soul, as the religion will have souls and mana (the energy which makes up souls and fuels magic) as a major theme. This piece of their soul keeps the heavens stretched out, as a ball is inflated, and without it the universe would collapse (they will have some scientific knowledge that's ahead of its time in our world, and that's kind of how demi-planes work). He sometimes brings in mortals from other worlds, so maybe the first human was one such person, and this person spread the knowledge of Xirkos the creator and other gods to the mortals and taught them to pray and sacrifice to the gods to maintain creation or fight the evil deities that want to collapse it. It's a good preliminary story anyway.

[@Crecganford]

Good luck with that :)

[@GeneralMelchett]

I really enjoy your content and I was always fascinated with the connections of migrations, cultures and their gods. I studied political science so I always look at religion not as a fact in itself but often as a tool to solidify power (propaganda). Therefore it's super interesting to see how narratives about gods change as one culture absorbs another. Quite often, they say: sure your old story is true, but this is the crucial difference. It is only a suspicion, but I could imagine that the narrative of the titanomachy in Greek mythology is the effort of placing the new pantheon in the existing cults. What is your assessment of religious narrative as an expression of changing power dynamics?

[@Crecganford]

A great question and interesting topic when you delve into specific examples. I would love to have the time to answer this here in full, but instead I can only offer to drip feed an answer through my various videos. But as religion was culture, and culture religion, religious narratives were a reflection of those who influenced the culture.

[@cacadores3955]

These were hunters and herd-followers living on the Steppes - these stories came before political power was administrated - we're talking about family groups and small tribes dealing with the end of the ice age. However, the stories gave meaning and meaning, according to the Homeric pantheon seems to have been expressed through attributes of ideas bought into existance, ie Zeus, along with power, for example Hera, leading to action, eg Ares.

[@Sapienite1]

I think there is a bit more nuance when it comes to the origin of some of these motifs. To give a single example, the prevelance of Cattle in both Indo-European and Afroasiatic myths has to come from Neolithic Settlers. The origin of Cattle domestication was near the Taurus Mountains between Anatolia and the Lavant, and they spread along with Neolithic Settlers out from that point after about 10,000 BCE. The descendants of these Cattle cultures included the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture of Ukraine, which traded and mixed directly with the Yamnaya (PIE). This, I think, challenges any proposition that PIE must be the true originator of these motifs; they very well may have originated from a common source between Semitic/Afroasiatic and Neolithic European Settlers, loaned to PIE through influential contact.

[@wittebolletony]

Thanks for making these videos explaining ancient stories and legendary tales.

[@Crecganford]

And thank you for watching them.

[@jonathanh5405]

As a native Hebrew speaker, your title in 40:44 has text in English and under it 3 letters in Hebrew, they are reversed, it is not בהר, it should be רהב It's only overlay text so you should have no issues with fixing it, it's not audio. Lovely video by the way, you sure did examine sources far and wide!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for spotting that :)

[@ArcanumArcanorum17]

Can you please do a video on iranian mytholgy and zoroaster's influence on religions and monotheism.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I'm working on this slowly as its quite a complex subject :)

[@ArcanumArcanorum17]

@@Crecganford Bless, keep up the good work

[@ArcanumArcanorum17]

@@Crecganford Also be sure to look over the pishdadians

[@martinlakeuk]

Fascinating videos, thank you. Do you have any videos with an overview of the books behind you? I’d really love to hear a short list of essential books that you recommend. Perhaps the books you’ve found the most fascinating? And accessible, I’m not a scholar! :)

[@Crecganford]

I will do a video on this as I am asked about this a lot, although the books behind me represent about 5% of my library, there are so many more that are worth a read. Although I do also place references to books in my videos descriptions.

[@martinlakeuk]

@@Crecganford thank you, I do keep an eye out for the reference material you put in the description. I love reading original source material especially, so if there are ancient writings you recommend, I’d love to hear about them. Thanks!

[@kevinmurphy65]

I've always had the notion that the best qualified people to interpret myth or religious scripture are not scholars nor clergy, but poets...as they understand the language in which myth is written: poetry.

[@user-qs7gx7rp7m]

Agree. Poets use metaphors to express wisdom that words alone cannot

[@curtisw1706]

Great teaching!!! I would love to hear more about Genesis, the trees in the garden of Eden, the flood, and Moses. I am a Christian minister (fundamentalist evangelical) and may not agree with everything you say but most of it is simply fascinating! I agree with you that the myths and stories of the world are connected. But rather than believing that Genesis came from the proto-indo European myths, I think the opposite . . . the proto-indo European myths came from an earlier story which more resembles Geneses and Geneses is the purer version. The creation stories of the world tremendously reveal the collective unconscious and the reality of archetypes. Their study can yeild a deeper understanding of the human mind and primevial human development.

[@Crecganford]

Thank yo for watching, and on Saturday my next video is released, and is about the flood... so I hope you watch it

[@curtisw1706]

I am waiting with bated breath!

[@donnalowe9334]

@@curtisw1706 Abraham - archologist have proved was Akhenaton. And Abraham was in the west Africa area from Ur. The A I made u - tube, pictures from statues of Akhenaten and his wife are both beautiful people. Akhananton & wife, sister & brother. Abraham & Sari /Sarah were sister & brother. Perhaps Twin Flames - divided but the same soul. Abraham was originally from the crescent fertile valley. Akhenaton & wife may likely be related to Enlil, Enki, Inanna and Marduk family. MARDUK = KUD RAM turned around. The RAM. Where have we heard of that ? If you research the AKAN SAN faith /area in west Africa it is totally worth the effort. SAN means Saint - very odd but if put together it = AKAN SAN = A KanSan - A KANSAN The word Kanza / Kansas entomology means PEACE. The Native American are part of the Ten Lost Tribes. HOPI teaching. The only continent to go from the North Pole to the south Pole is the Americas. So more than likely the continent was the remainder of Pangea and other land masses left it - to float away. Hence, why so many Egyptian NAMES are in the USA. Salem cities are in many states. The volcanos in the west USA have so many Egypt names. And we have pyramids - they claim were used for power grids. Tech we lost.

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

@@donnalowe9334 well, I hate to rain on your little parade there, but the Americas, when they split off, were known as Laurentia, and not only was there no Central America, the two continents were not always connected, nor almost all the time. You should do more research - from scientific sources - on plate tectonics. I must burst one of your little balloons, too. There have never been any pyramids connected to ANY form of energy - production, collection, distribution, or in any other way. I'd suggest you find the channel called World of Antiquity, and the one called Miniminuteman to learn more about that.

[@donnalowe9334]

@@MaryAnnNytowl My information was from the 9th Heaven. Wisdom - Sophia in scripture. The world has lied to us forever. They know the Actual Truth but do not want us to know. Tartaria Mud floods Giants are the mountains - asleep from the flood. The Hopi Native Americans are of the Twelve Tribes of IS RA EL. The Red and Blue Kachinas. The fourth YELLOW EARTH is now. And so much more...etc etc. How did Napolean get the Louisiana region of USA from a war in the European Asia conquest? Or, was his war in America - hence got the LAND there. I deep think - not just accept A$$perts so called story line. They did bleed George Washington to death with their medicine ideas. the scientists already proved Rome had electricity - hot and cold running water to use. Your campy idea of balloons - and a parade are insulting. I use & relate what is known and proved. You need to catch up or stop the mind control games of the 1 % people who want us to be captive slaves.

[@warrior_of_the_most_high]

Great video! I found your channel interesting. You should check out Egyptologist Dr Falk's channel, Ancient Egypt and The Bible. He also thinks that the creation story was influenced by the Egyptian, Babylonian and other creation myths of the surrounding nations. Because the Israelites were a mixed multitude when they came out of Egypt. He also has a series on his YT channel about the Exodus (If you're interested in it). It's a great channel for learning about Ancient Egypt too.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for the suggestion, I will check his channel out.

[@helenamcginty4920]

There is quite a lot of doubt that the Israelites ever were in Egypt. Egypt was certainly in the Levant though. Also they also kicked the Hyksos peoples out of the Delta region that they had taken over. Moses, as we are now told, is also an Egyptian name. The Levites also seem to have joined the Israelites later. Moses and Aaron were Levites. It all gets a bit complicated.

[@warrior_of_the_most_high]

@@helenamcginty4920 There's evidence that a large number of Semitic people once resided at Avaris. This place was abandoned for no reason during the 19th dynasty. And then after this period the Semitic population exploded (which was declining maybe because of wars or famines) in the Levant. Even the name Israel appeared at the same time period on Merneptah's Stele. Then there's the mention of Ramses along with other cities and even late Egyptian vocabulary in the Torah which indicates that Exodus took place in late bronze age (. Also, Torah (the first five books) has more Egyptian vocabulary than the rest of the Tanakh (Old Testament).

[@nonprogrediestregredi1711]

@@warrior_of_the_most_high Yeah, people from the region of Canaan resided at Avaris during the bronze age. The Isrealites were an offshoot of the Canaanite culture. However, just because there were Semitic people occupying Avaris, that doesn't mean that these were Isrealites. You would need to correlate such an assertion with good historical evidence.

[@brynhildk8864]

Amazing work of spreading complex knowledge, thank you

[@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420]

I'd really like to see you on a Livestream with Esoterica, Religion for Breakfast, Let's Talk Religion, and Seekers of Unity. I think that could be an incredible discussion.

[@Crecganford]

I think I’ve seen some of them, I’ll look them up and if I think we could do something I’ll try and sort it out. Thank you :)

[@MindfulPompous]

I'd love to check these out myself!

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

Excellent. The seeds of Info-European influence also came from the Hittites, first into Canaanite mythology (Ugarit was a Hittite vassal state) and then morphing into Judaism.

[@metsfan1873]

I don't think that the "morphing" is quite so neat. One thing doesn't turn into another, in culture or religion. A thing changes with influences from many directions and changes in situation and "this comes from that" is true... but so super-incomplete as to be very false at the same time. It's better to say "this came mostly from that" ---- or in this case, "this came indirectly from that" because I think you'll find that Ugarit disappeared a bit too early for Judaism to have appeared the next day, lol. The timeline means that there must be a gap and intermediates. And I don't think that the video suggests that anything came from something else, one-to-one.

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

The time gap between Ugarit the city and Judaism is minuscule compared to the time gap between Proto-Indo-European and its daughter languages. Also, I seem to recall ,though I don’t remember from where, that worship of Baal continued in Syria. I do not agree with a common naive view that myth travels only through texts. I have a more anthropological view that myth travels through oral storytelling, ritual, and cultural views on theology, which would not have ceased in the post-bronze age period. I do agree with you that genetic diffusion is frequently even rampantly complicated by borrowing (whether that be in either the form of syncretism or with scribal knowledge of other texts).

[@metsfan1873]

@@toddmcdaniels1567 If the Bible is to be believed, the worship of Ba'al continued in the Northern Kingdom until its end, and in the Southern Kingdom until the Exile too. I'm pretty sure that's true, not least because the archaelogy bears it out. Also Moloch. Asherah seems to have faded much earlier, but of course she might have been one of the Ba'alim; it's not clear exactly what did and didn't count as a Ba'al. And now we need to distinguish between Ba'al, an individual, usually the chief god of the pantheon; and the Ba'alim as a collective pantheon... Ba'al means something like "master" and can also be applied to a human in authority. El means something like "power" and can also be applied to a human in authority, usually very high authority. They were probably synonyms at one point, in the religious context at least. But El is also the Canaanite chief god, the "Zeus" if you like. But then El becomes a word for the Monotheos. It is likely that Canaanite El was a Ba'al, if indeed there was even a distinction early on. When Elohim is treated as singular, it's the Monotheos. When elohim is treated as plural, it's other gods that are worshiped. It's not always clear that the other elohim were understood as "false" either. Bottom line: It isn't simple, and any attempt at simplicity is wronger than it is right.

[@toddmcdaniels1567]

Spot on with everything you said. I’ll just blabber on a bit more. I would suggest that Ba’al later became the word for master, and that its origin rests within the Proto-Indo-European root *bal ‘bright, shining’ through Hittite (a reflex in English now as the word ‘ballistic’) in reference to Ba’al’s use of lightning. But I have been led to believe that the distribution in the Semitic language family for ba’al as ‘master’ is wide, suggesting extensive time depth, and I am no expert in either Indo-European or Semitic anyway (I am a linguist whose expertise is in far away Uto-Aztecan, especially Numic). All that said, Ba’al is clearly referenced as a particular deity in Ugaritic. El also starts out as a distinct god in Ugaritic. He is also easily read as a distinct god in the Bible up until the point that he and Yahweh become explicitly equated in the text. El does become a general word for god, but I think that’s not that difficult to trace. Jews were Canaanites. Canaanite mythology did morph into Judaism, but there was a geographic dimension also, to further acknowledge the diachronic complexity you speak of. It’s hard to know what is attributable to time versus what was attributable to Northern versus southern Levant. Personally I think a lot of change is due to the Bronze Age collapse, as less wealth made sacrificing to just one deity less burdensome. The extensive lists of sacrifices of a plethora of animals made to a multitude of deities is part of the Ugaritic clay tablet corpus. Then again, the same might be said geographically for the resources generally available to desert wanderers of any time. Much the same could be said of the use of idols as physical representations of gods. These were used in Ugaritic rituals, but we’re probably abandoned for their impracticality and burden for the southern Levant, again whether that is attributable to the Bronze Age Collapse or to the geography of desert wandering is anyone’s guess. Clearly this led to denying the physicality of Yahweh and a subsequent tendency for Yahweh to syncretize other god qualities and become more and more abstract. Francesca Stavrakapoulou, however, has written in depth about vestiges of Yahweh’s body as evidenced in text. It is clear he was originally envisioned with a more physical presence.

[@metsfan1873]

@@toddmcdaniels1567 Yup. I wasn't going that "wide" and we can look at each Divine Name in Tanach, and also each "rejected" deity in Tanach, and find some amazing things. It's likely that Deborah was a devotee of Asherah, for example. And I think that there is a great deal more to be known about Chemosh. I'm really not sure what you mean by "until they are equated in the text" because that happens in Gen 2:5 and is part of how the separate creation accounts are linked together - thereby linking together the two Names as naming one Being. I mean, I suppose they can be read as separate in 2:4? I always tell people, "The Bible is a much better book than The Bible."

[@betweenearthandsky4091]

Interesting video and information, however jumping a bit to conclusions in some parts and building upon with a fragile foundation.

[@Crecganford]

I will look into this more soon, which may shore up the foundations, and provide additional evidence.

[@rileycritter9286]

my favourite head cannon is that before it was written down, it was a song about all the things that live

[@exploratorize7703]

Watched this 3 times in one sitting. Excellent study, thank you for putting it out there for us !! 🤘

[@christianityisunstoppable4155]

Very nice video. But the creation in Genesis was formed through the Word. The other creation myths start with violence and war. Would like to hear you view on this very important and big difference. No doubt there are similarities , but there’s a few differences. Very nicely done wider. 👍

[@christianityisunstoppable4155]

@@Isaac-hr8ug Nicely said. Very nice.

[@femteezy1992]

To be fair, the biblical creation story God fights the Leviathan as he separates land from water. So, the biblical creation myth also carries violence with it, But more importantly, try viewing these stories as figurative rather than actually literal fighting between Gods. It may just be a retelling of physical occurrences at the beginning of time retold with representative characters to make it easier to follow.

[@taxat10n1sth3ft]

@@femteezy1992 show me the reference where "God fights the leviathan as he separates land from water'

[@lukepensabene6086]

Sumer and Babylon were in Mesopotamia, not the southern Arabian peninsula. Plus the fact that the Sumerian mythos [presumably] predates the Indo-European expansions suggests that Sumer was the progenitor, or they both inherited it from an earlier common source, likely in the southern Caucasus by Ararat, Gobekli Tepe, and the source of the Tigris and Euphrates.

[@Crecganford]

There is little evidence dating Sumerian mythology to before Indo European expansion, due to many reasons, but a reasonable amount showing IE migrations influenced the myth in this this region. Which is why a majority of academics support the view I've talked about here, and in my Enuma Elish video, as well as my Indo European related videos. I've put references in the description, to avoid presumption.

[@cinaedmacseamas2978]

@@Crecganford I think the recent discovery of R1a Y chromosome signatures dominating the leadership of Arabic tribes in their "sheiks" confirms the spread of Indo Europeans to this region.

[@jgr7487]

the thing with the rib is that this is the ONLY place where that word is used as "rib", everywhere else it's used as "the half", as of "the other half of the temple". therefore, what is really written there is "God made the woman from the other half of adam". that said, seeing this after Inspiring Philosophy's series on Genesis, this makes even more sense.

[@markhall9007]

I’m so glad I found your channel. I’m Norse Germanic pagan and your content is what I look for. So Skal!

[@Ash-fw4uk]

I like your approach generally and have enjoyed a few of your videos so far, but here, I think you need to pay a bit more attention to time. As you rightly say, the Proto-Indo Europeans originated somewhere on the Russian steppes. This “great migration”, which was probably driven by climate change, happened over several waves and spread in different t directions, but generally towards the South and West, into what is now Iran and West into Europe. The tribes who moved into the Iranian plateau consisted of many tribes who arrived at different times, but identified as Aryans overall. My point about time is this; the indigenous people these Aryan tribes encountered (the Mesopotamians etc) were mostly of Semitic races (Semitic languages have different roots, to Indo-European languages) and their mythology was already well established. You might argue that the myths the Indo Europeans brought with them influenced those of the cultures they encountered, but you speak as if the Indo Europeans were always there and thus the stories that later became the basis for Genesis were entirely based on their creation myths. This cannot be, since the Aryans were relative new comers to the area. Long after Summer had fallen and given way to Mesopotamia and Babylon. On the subject of language, as people migrated and encountered new lands and peoples, their language evolved and diversified, but usually the core words such as family, remained. Thus the word for daughter for instance, is the same in Swedish as it is in Farsi (language of Iran) and the word for horse is the same in Estonian as in Sanskrit and Farsi. Iran means “land of the Aryans” and although the script used for writing, looks similar to that used for Arabic, the languages are vastly different. Iranian being an Indo European language, while Arabic belongs in the Semitic language family.

[@OblateSpheroid]

Brought by Hittites? Iranians? Also, do you have any thoughts about the origin of the Buddha?

[@stevenjackson6360]

My money is on the Mittani

[@bernardfinucane2061]

The Persians ruled the Middle East for centuries. The creation myth is not the oldest part of the bible.

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Jon, this is one of your best videos. I'm really impressed. You did so much well that I couldn't start to say what you did right. Even where you and I have different conclusions, your conclusions are sensible and I understand how you came to them. Most of those are in speculation anyway, so it doesn't matter, because there is no right and wrong in that. Just different ideas, which is cool. Excellent work

[@lukecash3500]

So I grew up a Christian, and have become an agnostic later in life. Had always heard about the god of the Old Testament having a ton of resemblance to contemporary myths. But I didn't have nearly as clear an idea of Egyptian and Babylonian influence being so straightforwardly there in the linguistics and the overall outlines of the story. To me this video is kind of amazing and I wish you'd give this same treatment to other biblical texts as I read them bible from cover to cover a lot growing up, wanting to see the perspective of Judaism as well, and to understand about what people were saying when they compared it to Mesopotamian culture, specifically the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh for the book of Genesis. Then going back even further and seeing the Proto Indo European connection, seeing so much more context now for how that culture thought about sacrifice and how this influenced later civilizations to practice and talk about sacrifice, things just make a million times more sense to me now.

[@burnadze]

@InspiringPhilosopy Can you adress this video?

[@Crecganford]

Probably best to address the cited material, so in effects Lincoln's view on the IE Myth of Creation influencing this using evidence such as the Enuma Elis (backed up with Landsberger & Wilsons paper).

[@merleharris7485]

Informative video. Another way of looking at this is that the Hebrew writers of Genesis were not suppressing original pagan myths of creation but recovering the truth of one God and how he was separate and supreme over all creation. The case of Ptah could be an example of this. If he was, indeed, worshipped in Egyptian prehistory, and since he is allegedly poorly attested in early Egyptian writings, Ptah could very well be a name given to the one true God who is the most ancient, not new. Knowledge of one God was not ltd. to ancient Israel. Job was not Jewish and neither was the infamous Balaam (just look at his name! LOL!) both of whom knew the same God of the Jews. If Ptah was a memory of the one, original God, he eventually slides into regular paganism of what Paul called worshipping the creation, not the Creator. For instance, his green face signifies vegetation and fertility, and he has a wife and a son, whom, I suppose, bore Ptah's child as created human's do. A principle that won't steer you wrong is "scripture is the best interpeter of scripture." Paul, in the same passage from Romans 1 cited above, points that ancient people outside of the Abrahamic covenant did know the same God as Israel, but "willfully suppressed the truth." The creation account of Genesis, then, is not a suppression, but a corrective. Also, it's important to note that Jesus regarded Gen. 1 and 2 as a single account, not two versions of creation. This is borne out in the Hebrew translated in English phrasing as "These are the generations" or "This is the account of." The original language states a definite link that means, "this is what came out of what you just read." I highly recommend Dr. Michael Heiser's book The Unseen Realm for those interested in another, scripturally based perspective on how ancient Israel understood the other gods -- NOT just as idols, but actual beings.

[@RossArlenTieken]

Thank you! These worldviews, correctives, etc., continue through the history of the Church, even recently. It is best seen in the Virgen de Guadalupe--a mixture of Axtec, Mayan, and Christian symbols. Pope Bendict XVI said of the Guadalupe "The Truth does not destroy; it purifies and unites." The Church absorbs and directs the old stories. Paul is a perfect example of this in his dealings with Mithraism and the Roman pantheon. Christ is the fulfillment of all peoples' myths; Tolkien also wrote about this, and Christopher Dawson.

[@NiobiumThyme]

"Cheers me up." Is THE best reason for a like and subscribe that I have heard to date. So you've got it.

[@skaphanatic5657]

I seem to remember in one of my Egyptology classes some mention of very early Predynastic period representations of cattle being related to worship of an early form of Hathor. Do you think there might be some link or influence to the specific mention of cattle in the Genesis account?

[@Crecganford]

I do, although I’m not sure how strong that link was. Certainly the use of cattle seemed to spread rather than was picked up separately, and whether the myth travelled with that is hard to prove. I will touch on Egyptology at some point in the future, as there are lots of videos about it elsewhere, but I want to give my own take in my own style. So watch this space :) Thanks for commenting, it all helps support the channel.

[@TheGamingBDGR]

I was highly skeptical of this video from jump, with it's title of "The Indo-European origins of Genesis" As a budding biblical scholar, I feel confident in saying it's roots are wholly Semitic. It very much shares story beats and figures with many of the surrounding cultures. Abraham is mentioned being called out of a Sumerian city so right there we have ties back to those early Fertile Cresent city builders. I do love how people take the Egyptian myths as whole sale but they were not a concrete thing, same with Greek myths. As much as we can tell Osiris is an older chief diety than Ra, and Ra didn't come to prominence till much later when a certain Pharoah came from a small costal village where Ra was a local sun god so he attached him to the then chief diety Ammun in a bid to elevate his local god and in doing so elevate himself. It's almost impossible to look at these cultures and say "this is their creation myth" no these myths are how they existed at the time of their inscription but are also prone to the beliefs of the particular scribe as they existed locally and culturally with no singular solidified religious authority. That be like looking at Hesiod's Theogny and saying "This is the Greek story as they believed it" no that was Hesiod's attempt at constructing a singular narrative from all the local beliefs and stories of his people through no urging but his own. It was not indicative of what every Greek believed. While I appreciate your work on PIE and IE scholarship I would feel very hesitant in saying anything to do with them is fact. We have next to nothing of these people. Let alone what their stories were. We can reverse engineer some words sure and looking at common story beats among people groups we KNOW they influenced you can guesstimate what some of their stories may have included. But finer details is all hearsay and could be incredibly wrong. So it feels to me at least scholarly incorrect to hold up other myths we actually have written down versions of and a bit more idea of the actual culture that actually practiced these faiths and compare and say they came from this other thing that right now exist in scholarship as a mostly Frankenstein construction of recognized story beats. I saw in a response to one comment you said you'd expect to find more Serpent stories than cow stories in PIE myths if they were influenced by Mesopotamia rather than influencing them but I must ask why? Serpents are more common to the Near East regions than they are too the colder northern regions of Europe and the Steppes where bovines where a regular site roaming the forest and being domesticated. And yes you find cows in Hebrew scriptures, they were a farming culture, but what you don't find are horses. Pharoah is mentioned as having chariots so you can infer horses but the only closest thing is donkeys coming up a couple of times, mainly looking at the story of Balaam and then Jesus riding into Jerushalem on a donkeys back. If Genesis was really influenced by PIE myths I'd expect to find more importance on cows and horses, instead cows are work animals in the fields and so are donkeys(not horses) All this to say that even as a man of faith I'm not saying the Hebrew's stories are entirely their own, clearly they are heavily influenced by the culture the people came out of and writings from post Babylonian exile are heavily influenced by their time spent in Babylon. However it truly doesn't feel like there is enough evidence to say they are anything other than a wholly Semitic work. Will there be similarities to other works by other non Semitic groups? Of course, generalize something enough and it eventually becomes vague enough to fit anything. But also as i saw someone else say we are all humans, and humans work the same way all over the earth. On that note we are all on the same blue planet seeing the same things and living vastly more similar lives than dissimilar no matter what time period we are in so of course the stories we tell and beliefs we have in order to make sense of this all are going to connect in ways. But I don't believe these correlations indicate causation any particular way.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for watching and a great comment. There’s far too much there than I have time to respond to, but I will say my next video, out Saturday, will talk about the serpent myth and how the Indo-European myth and Near Eastern myth are linked. And this has changed my perspective slightly, alongside further work on an earlier creation myth. I hope you watch it and give feedback. Thanks again.

[@off_Planet]

This is a comment posted to please the KZbin Robot Overlord.

[@Crecganford]

As always, thank you :)

[@deespaeth8180]

Excellent as always! Sipping tea or sewing while listening to you is my new favorite pastime! Thank you kindly, sir!

[@danielpaulson8838]

From furthest back in antiquity, variations of the first, "monomyth" or "Hero's Journey" began to emerge. These are all structured on that template. They just change out the analogs to put it in a new time, place and culture. Stories where their technology and media. They seemed rather serious about it. The Argonautica, The Odyssey, Hinduism, Judaism, King Arthur, Star Wars and oh my, the list would never stop. Hero's journey template. Their philosophers were sharing a common lesson for humanity.

[@danielpaulson8838]

Meant to include, I can demonstrate this claim. It's not just blabbering.

[@montymartell2081]

Well I'm an atheist but an atheist my whole life since 7 years old when I found out there's no such thing as Santa Claus I also realize there's no such thing as a Jesus Christ so I'm interested where this came from

[@johnbyrnes7912]

My mum told me when I was 9 ! She said the boys at school would laugh at me. I'd never thought about it. Now I'm an agnostic but not an atheist..I suspect those extra two years protected me.!?! 🤡

[@benw9949]

Indo-European origins of Genesis? The Semitic languages and others in Mesopotamia / the Middle East, and their religions and mythologies predate the Indo-Europeans. There has been no proven consensus on reconstructions or theories that attempt to join the Semitic and Indo-European language families. There are things in common between the Genesis story and other Semitic and Middle Eastern creation stories and hero myths, yes. However, to claim that the Genesis story in the Bible is from Indo-European sources is just misleading and not true.It would be like claiming that Indo-European came from American English, or something more absurd.

[@Crecganford]

But the thing is there are theories and academic papers suggesting this link by very well respected academics in this field. Just because you chose not to accept or believe them doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. I do place references to many of the papers or books I reference in the videos description if you are interested in finding out more.

[@dior2939]

@@CrecganfordBut you choose to believe in your academic sources who could be wrong as well it seems you have a bias towards what you think is “true”.

[@dior2939]

@@CrecganfordAnd you still never addressed how PIE influenced a set of beliefs that come from Proto Semitic culture which is far older then PIE.

[@petermaxfield7343]

Really enjoyed this explanation of the merging of various myths being the impetus of the Judeo-Christian Faiths.

[@proveItllc]

I would be interested in seeing if you could interpret the carvings at Gobeckli Tepi from your knowledge of ancient myths. And similarly if the Gobekli Tepi myths fueled the mythology of early Summer

[@Crecganford]

I am slowly working on that as a side project, and may produce a paper/book/video in a couple of years, as I do want to make sure it is thorough. It is a very interesting topic, especially considering my latest videos.

[@crabofchaos7881]

You look like a very wise mouse

[@MrAniseable]

Russian steps in the Black Sea? I think it is Ukraine ;)

[@mk8ez364]

Thanks for sharing. Good stuff!

[@jfv65]

Beautiful video! I had a Christian upbringing and i have always wondered why i was expected to believe that there was nothing before the bible and then suddenly there was the old testament. Just not logical. Then in highschool you learn about the Egyptians, the Sumerians, Hinduism, Budism and all their ancient writings. I sensed the similarities but i couldn't put my finger on it. In history lessons ancient history was often gone over lightly. Teachers emphesised the Greek and Roman history. In my view this was because of the connections with Christianity and later the enlightenment. As if Europe or Asia had no older earlier history of significant importance. But the indo-european history from the bronze age going forward is of crucial(!) importance to Europe, Middle east, near east and Indian subcontinent. In terms of culture, genetics, linguistics, philosofy, science and, as told i this video, religion. Wonderful video!