Genhart Horizontal Turret Rifle

/ forgottenweapons
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.bbtv.com/c...
Heinrich Genhart was a Swiss designer working in Liege, Belgium in the 1850s making horizontal turret rifles. His design was actually pretty decent, and included recessed chamber mouths and a calming barrel which would lock more or less solidly into each chamber for firing, thus minimizing cylinder gap flash. This particular example is a roughly .38 caliber rifle with a 10-shot cylinder, in a pretty rough stock (I suspect a replacement). Genhart patented this design in Belgium in 1853 and in the United States in 1857, but turret rifles quickly fell out of popularity and his production ended by about 1860.
The Genhart guns were designed for a specialty cartridge, formed of lead or tin foil using tools sold with the gun. They used a type of tube primer set into the base of each cartridge during assembly, which was crushed by a hammer moving directly upwards. The whole system seems quite good, but doomed by the advent of much better cartridge technology.
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754

[@matthayward7889]

Cousin to the “unsafe in any direction” vertical turret rifle

[@ramjb]

with the caveat that with a vertical turret rifle you have a reasonable chance of a misfiring round in the cylinder shooting upwards to the sky or downwards into the ground. with this thing everything and everyone in a 360º circle around you is at a risk. Sounds far more exciting! XD

[@matthayward7889]

ramjb like playing Russian roulette every time you fire 😂

[@ramjb]

@@matthayward7889 Swiss Roulette. Yeah I thought something very similar while watching this video ;).

[@matthayward7889]

ramjb “Swiss roulette” 😂😂😂

[@Ashfielder]

Matt Hayward Now it’s unsafe in some directions.

[@travishabursky4362]

That’s the most convoluted waffle iron I think the Belgians have ever made.

[@megafooget9475]

Forgotten weapons is like the bob ross of guns

[@taylorwest6986]

Happy little rifles.

[@megafooget9475]

@@PureRushXevus "I guess i'm a little weird, I like to talk to rifles and grenades. That's okay though; I have more fun than most people."

[@travishabursky4362]

Ian here seems like he’s the only academic in the youtube gun community.

[@jupiterfive1331]

@@megafooget9475 Talk to the Grenade all you want, just don't pet it, until you've told all your loved ones you love them.

[@megafooget9475]

@@jupiterfive1331 "they may have a explosive personality, but that's what makes them special."

[@highlandoutsider]

Ive gotta say,I really do love these em, politely put, "unusual" guns. Whether it's a turret rifle like this or the lil squeezy disk palm pistol, anything that was the predecessor to nothing is always far more interesting than any other successful design. Thanks Ian, keep up the good work.

[@PieterBreda]

Drop 2-3 cylinders in your bag and you can shoot a lot of bullets while your ennemy is still reloading.

[@shaneingram9324]

If you get a multiple discharge you can hit everyone, including yourself!

[@marzcorp]

@@shaneingram9324 that's the special attack if you hold B

[@john-paulsilke893]

I don’t really think you can flash over very easily with this system. I’d certainly feel safe shooting it.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

Wax sealing your chambers also basically renders a weapon immune to chain firing and it was a pretty standard thing (supposedly it also prevents the ball and powder coming out of the chamber under gravity but you should have the ball and wadding pressed in well enough to do that anyway realistically...

[@big_pingu]

@@shaneingram9324 You wouldnt hit yourself, the chamber would just explode.

[@taylorwest6986]

The stock might be a replacement, but is the green twisty tie original?

[@benwatts4215]

Tw@!

[@TheRogueWolf]

The perfection of a bad idea.

[@ericmathis7740]

Wow between Project Lightning and Forgotten Weapons Ian is really cranking out some awesome vids. Thank you Ian for all your hard work.

[@MarvinCZ]

*Lightening (sorry, I had to)

[@shanebo1979]

I love old guns like this! They remind me of fine watches...The more intricate and complicated, the better.

[@MichaelJenkins910]

Excellent video. Turret guns always leave me wondering 'what might have been' had that design methodology continued apace. I also find myself wondering what folks like Herr Genhart would think if they knew we were still discussing their work 170-ish years later.

[@bjorntheviking6039]

I find that odd designs like the subject of this video make for an excellent spice to add to an alternate history story.

[@Seelenschmiede]

@@bjorntheviking6039 with this guns, you can clearly imagine where steam punk got its inspiration from

[@JohnLeePedimore]

Whoever made the new barrel lever it looks like they tried to make it release the turret pin at the same time.

[@bigmike-]

Correct; that, to me, implies the thing saw field use - probably as a hunters gun as a means to make a living.

[@bigbelix]

I like how the top of the dinnerplate part looks like the back of a cartridge with primer and all.

[@angus57720]

Holy s***, you're right!

[@happyveliz]

That's exactly what I was thinking!

[@TonboIV]

That metal "shield" around the turret is more psychological than practical. If one of those chambers actually goes off, the extra metal is just going to add to the shrapnel.

[@demetriajones3231]

It probably served as a dust cover to an extent

[@lakrids-pibe]

Genhart's Grammophon Gewehr

[@graveperil2169]

strange from your new love the Lewis gun to a turret rifle are you developing a type?

[@davidwit7749]

Just like Sir Mixalot, Ian likes 'em round.

[@aceofcheems7685]

I mean if he likes pan mag type gun then i guess

[@inserttext2412]

@@davidwit7749 Reference of year award is all yours

[@Kumimono]

That cylinder looks damaged. I wonder if something.. unfortunate happened.

[@jackmcslay]

Looks like damage from external impact to me. An unfortunately discharge enough to do that large a crack would render the gun unusable

[@TonboIV]

​@@jackmcslay That turret with all the metal around it is effectively a pipe bomb. If anything 'unfortunate' happens, the whole action would explode.

[@herrskeletal3994]

I was thinking someone didnt know about the lever to move the barrel forward and was trying to take the cylinder out. So the grabbed the screw driver and started prying.

[@NoobNoob-ss5hs]

I imagine it going off like a Bouncing Betty.

[@luisantolafrancis519]

Dont forget the perfect turret machine gun, the lewis !! Not a turret in itself but in the concept of the magazine the old principle of the spining turrett its there and more safely by not using it as pressure chamber but just as a magazine . Ideas evolve, developes , die ,are forgotten , and sometimes they come back !!!! Good work .

[@Teknokraatti]

Cylindrical, origocentric magazines with monodirectional feeding really are not technically related to turrets.

[@luisantolafrancis519]

@@Teknokraatti dear miska if you read what y wrote y never imply that the lewis is a turret gun but a evolution of some related concept in a more functional and proper way . Thaks for your coments . Cheers!!

[@randywatson8347]

From an engineering point of view, very interesting how they managed to manufacture those parts with a degree of precision. If they made that wheel to be mechanically windable with spring tension, that would save one manual action after each shot.

[@thebaddest2562]

That's a quick reload if you've go several of those turrets. I'd have to agree that this design, with the exception of pointing rounds at urself, is a really good one and even better than 99% of all others.

[@Jj-eq6zi]

I love guns so much. There's just something about cool looking and the simply complex design of them that just spikes my interest.

[@cvmaniac7286]

I love how the top of that turret section looks like the back end of a shell casing.

[@yoshisted01]

I never knew turret rifles were a real thing, I just thought it was a unique concept made by Fable 2

[@korblborp]

Interesting. I've been doodling attempts at plausible horizontal turret rifles for a few days, and the Ian does a video on one. What a pleasant coincidence.

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian .

[@davidhonfi2683]

If i didn't know this was swiss, I'd say it's swiss

[@greanstreak04]

In case of flashover. Anything next to it will be Swiss.... cheese...

[@davidhonfi2683]

oh God.....

[@TheWozWizard]

I have been slack in my job. Genhart's U. S. Patent for "Improvement in Repeating Fire-Arms" is 16,477 issued 27 January 1857.

[@LEGN0ME1]

It looks like when you pull lever back to bring barrel forward, if you go a bit further back the lever could also depress the button so you can rotate the cylinder. All in one motion

[@USSMariner]

Yeah but it doesn't automatically rotate the cylinder as seen on normal revolvers. It doesn't even have a nub (presumably to avoid blocking the iron sight) to comfortably rotate the cylinder.

[@ianmcguinness5029]

Love these Turret rifles.

[@basileus9343]

Maybe the holes in the front of the cylinder arent for venting but for loading new cartridges. Or maybe both things

[@420anonymous]

I was thinking the same thing. My best guess is that the diameter of the holes is just for the bullet, not the cartridge. Otherwise, if you tilted it downward, those two cartridges on the side would drop out. (I know nothing about historical firearms, just a guess.)

[@vinishshetty8055]

The inventor could have added a lever action to rotate the cylinder that would have made it faster look carefully and you can observe the loading mechanism could be extended into a lever action style extension where the shooter could rechamber a new round without having to take his eyes off the target could have made this a potent rifle.

[@ShonicBurn]

This was the content I subbed for old stuff is inspiring for artists

[@SpaceCowboyfromNJ]

Based on the damage I suspect the lever had been broken of at some point (probably when the stock was damaged) thrown in a closet or something and forgotten about. Someone eventually inherited it/found it, had no clue how it functioned and proceeded to try to pry the turret out of it, which would explain those chips in it. Maybe the stock was further damaged, (or damaged initially) by some one trying to get in there to cam the barrel back forward.

[@tacticalmanatee]

If you are taking review requests, have you any interest in doing a video on the Smith and Wesson Model 2, the top-break pistol that introduced the .38 S&W cartridge? It is a relatively unknown little gun but very cool, essentially a miniature Model 3 and the start of the line that would lead to the famous Safety Hammerless and the countless clones of that design.

[@billbright1755]

Could have named it the merry go round rifle. Like a sparkler pin wheel, you just didn’t know which way it might shoot, keeps it interesting. But as the calliope that crashed to the ground, the turret gun, slowly bowed out. Probably just not complex enough for the time. Like the Chinese novel Spots On Wall, by Whoo Flung Dung.

[@akashmukherjee2405]

If not for accidental discharge, I bet turret guns would have been one of the most reliable guns known to us...

[@SmilingMoos3]

If not for being black, I bet you I could have been white

[@Slowensko98]

Thank you for the video, well explained as always! But i still can't imagine the kind of cartridge which was used or the tools to produce these... But that's the first time for 2 years i don't understand something in your videos XD So still a good job, thanks ;)

[@raptorbadger3131]

Ian should legally change his name to gun jesus.

[@derekhenschel3191]

Oh fuck remember the last turret rifle video from a year ago. Epic

[@tenchraven]

I've read of these things, but never even seen a picture. Thank you for showing us this, Ian. And if this is the best in class, I'm glad I skipped it. This thing is neat, but it's horrifying to. Looking at this latching system to go to the next chamber, I have to wonder if Genhart was a lefty.

[@MeleeTiger]

Ten shots in a musket like rifle in the 1800's? You can kind of see why someone would make it or use it.

[@johnthomas-km2bf]

Neato, never seen one of these before. You know, a colt buntline with a shoulder stock would make an interesting topic, if you've not done it.

[@Seelenschmiede]

Now I imagine a horizontal turret rifle with todays brass and a pump action for completely cycling the gun.

[@An_Actual_Rat]

Such an interesting design.

[@musikSkool]

Another day, another interesting machine.

[@Bloodreign137]

I know these aren’t the safest but I’m such a sucker for revolver or turret style rifles. I wish some company would make one for fun but with normal primed cartridges to be safe

[@junichiroyamashita]

Finally a safe turret gun, is there a special niche in which these firearms would be useful today?

[@KTo288]

Steampunk themed two gun match. Steampunk cosplay in general.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Mmh what can a turret gun do that a revolver cannot?

[@1701spacecadet]

Junichiro Yamashita well this one has guaranteed chamber-to-barrel alignment. Also you could say this is one of the first speedloaders. No messing about putting a round in each chamber, just slot in a new turret.

[@rickansell661]

Obviously a new definition of "safe" I have never previously encountered. :) Maybe "safer" is a better way to put it, especially as no firearm is "safe" when loaded.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Mmh well yeah,also speedloaders , or in this case new turrets would be much smaller so that one could carry more Also they can maybe be stacked on two planes,for double the ammo or different caliber(with a different barrel, like that two barrel hunting rifle that Ian show before) having basically all the pros of a revolver with double the ammo

[@77gravity]

It only needed a cylinder advance connected to the lever and it would have been an awesome 10 shot repeating lever rifle.

[@TheNotrussian]

Imagine a modern version of this using modern cartridges. Would be a interessting range toy.

[@jasonirwin4631]

Modern cartridges would eliminate the safety concerns. Similar to how modern cartridges solved the safety issues with revolver carbines.

[@Entropy_91]

The closest you're going to get is a pan magazine. Although a Lewis gun or a Degtyaryov would be a fun range toy.

[@john-paulsilke893]

A turret gun I wouldn’t be terrified to shoot.

[@M.M.83-U]

Fascinating!

[@roguetorino]

Looks that that handle was redesigned a bit to also depress the turret lock button when you pull it all the way back to make reloads slightly faster

[@crominion6045]

8:02 It looks like the rearward facing arm on the barrel camming lever should push the secondary locking button on the right side of the turret down when you move it back to cam the barrel forward, so moving the lever would unlock both locks at once. It just looks like the arm is not bent far enough back on this example to do so, or perhaps something is not allowing the lever to move fully rearward. 🤔

[@scottmacgregor3444]

Oh jeez, as soon as Ian said "multiple discharge" my first thought was "that thing is a grenade."

[@RyeOnHam]

It looks like the 'spur' on the barrel lever is intended to press the button to allow the cylinder to rotate. You stop retracting the lever just prior to it depressing the button. Is this the case?

[@JeSsSe66]

The DP-27: "My ancestor :)"

[@charlesashworth6805]

It looks like the improved version of JM Browning's harmonica rifle

[@brudibrudi9237]

*gets note, sees thumbnail* Wat...

[@bigmike-]

That gun has definitely seen a hard life

[@thatguynameddan2136]

Wow, it looks like at some point it was 'rode hard and put away wet' but has amazing character for its age.

[@2sleeze]

Nice video, thanks for the upload! I'm wondering if you push that lever back enought wouldn't it press the button as well beyond moving the barrel?

[@loyp4328]

Not enough toggle lock, but that gun has turret syndrome

[@cleanerben9636]

Now I'm imagining a toggle locked turret gun

[@tylerguteres2449]

Not to say it would be practical necessarily, but would it be possible to to convert one these to fire pinfire cartridges?

[@dbaider9467]

Wonderful.

[@TechBeardy]

I wonder if the two vent holes were also so you could visually check if you had a round about to rotate into battery and in the other hole see if that chamber had fired. Not ideal in terms of safety but less faff then removing the whole cylinder.

[@jackmcslay]

I think it looks much more interesting of a gun if it's seeing it must have gotten some pretty heavy use, down to the point of having a replacement lever obviously made by drilling a bunch of holes into a thick sheet of metal, then bending and filing it smooth

[@OehlJim]

Ian, I have noticed there is no longer a reference to the RIA Catalog page. Is this some new KZbin rule? Thanks!

[@SNOUPS4]

Why is there no link anymore to ForgottenWeapons where I could find the link to the page on the Rock Island Auction house website? KZbin even refusing this now?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I didn't include it because the RIA catalog has not been posted yet.

[@SNOUPS4]

Ohh thank you for the reply (and the video!!) :)

[@r6984]

@@ForgottenWeapons thank you gun Jesus

[@skepticalbadger]

Forsyth didn't invent the percussion cap, just percussion ignition.

[@brandonrenner9597]

Lol always watch forgotten weapons to relax

[@worldtraveler930]

I always wondered what if someone took a the Chicago Palm pistol and made it into a rifle and now I see a black powder forerunner. 🤔

[@thedude1671]

How did you extract the spent "casings"? It seems like they would be prone to sticking in the cylinder after they expand a bit.

[@FeldwebelWolfenstool]

..."bore butter" might reduce the flash hazard..

[@megachimp2537]

I'm kinda surprised that people used these for that long, I'd get tired of these the first time that I got shot in the face

[@knutdergroe9757]

Ian, Have ever been to the gun museum in Claremore Ok ? They have some rare examples.....

[@Arthurzeiro]

I wonder what the muzzle velocity and bullet mass was back in the day, .38 is rather small for a rifle at that time right?

[@stevenschumacher5566]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if one were to turn that barrel camming lever a little farther back, wouldn't it press that cylinder release plunger? Thus allowing you to maintain a grip on the gun with one hand and "reloading" with the other.

[@emperorwack8528]

First magazine? Also one of my favorite early guns

[@DarkestVampire92]

If that thing had a mechanisim to rotate the turret... ho boy, i would want one.

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Shud have called this the all direction killer sometimes....crazy..!

[@jimh6763]

Nice "less awful rifle"!!

[@vinishshetty8055]

Has this rifle already had a multiple discharge is that chipping damage to the cylinder because of it?

[@navywolf1753]

It almost appears as if a few of the cylinders accidentally discharged, chipping the turret and damaging the wooden stock around the action area. Could the barrel camming mechanism be pulled back far enough to depress the cylinder lock button?

[@StanislavG.]

Don't know why, but this gun has a Confederacy weapon vibe to it

[@WafflePlaneRC]

Due to the lack of a substantial firearms industry in the south, the Confederacy tended to use whatever they could get their hands on. I would not be at all surprised if some of these guns (or even this particular one, considering the wear on it) had found their way onto the battlefield.

[@andrewlee-do3rf]

Looks like a rly steampunk Lewis gun :D

[@jeremymitchell9793]

Since it's a 10 round turret cylinder it's almost California legal all it needs is a Bullet Button to slow down that change of the turret

[@crekow]

Ian, there is no "soft" G (like "J"- i.e. "general") sound in the German language. Genhart would be pronounced with a "hard" G (i.e. "gold"). Interesting gun.

[@derhalbvollehalbgelehrte4515]

What if Genhart was Belgian ?

[@cmays209]

damn tho i could see a dope-ass re-load animation by DICE .... . . . .

[@TheVillainInGlasses]

Flip the turret like a coin and it lands in the rifle? Or the turret comes down , all spinning and blinky like a UFO and lands on the rifle.

[@Ethan-yx9ln]

Good morning everyone 🥰

[@dylanmoore5927]

Does the safety issue of a turret style revolver carry over to guns like the Lewis gun with its style of magazine?

[@KaDaJxClonE]

You should have Karl this and make an argument calling this the original assault rifle.

[@kallecederstrom501]

Just don't tell him about Kalthoff repeater.

[@Seb-Storm]

Interesting gun and the way it was needed to have ammo created. Ian just a fyi the letter 'g' in german is pronounced with a solid sound like the g in good. It is not pronounced with a 'y' like yield as you did in this video. Other than that keep the good work mate

[@evantemple4341]

What was the desired market for such a firearm?

[@Schwarzvogel1]

Is this particular model representative of the general design of the Genhart rifles? Based on the location of the cocking lever, that rifle seems as if it was purposely and perfectly designed for left-handed shooters... which I approve of greatly as a southpaw shooter myself! With a longer lever, I guess that it could be fine for a right-handed shooter, but I'm quite amused to see that European designers were considering ambidexterity even back in the 19th century.

[@davidstegman8147]

Cartridge firing guns would work ok with that system wouldn't it?

[@aceofcheems7685]

Ian i have a major question What is the difference between Pederson self-loading rifle and the Luger Selbstlader model 06

[@desroin]

Why do I have to think about pan magazines like the lewis gun or that russian LMG when I see this ^^'

[@derhalbvollehalbgelehrte4515]

Wonder who did this nice cobbler work on it. xD

[@mamadazadmard2429]

Hansel and Gretel : Witch hunters.

[@Omnihil777]

I guess that's where the Turret-Syndrome comes from, wild cursing when a chain fire ripped some flesh from your face - again...

[@b.griffin317]

looks like the lever arm could be pulled back enough to push the button. is this true?