Genuine Madder Lake Pigment extraction.

This episode focuses on the extraction of the rose red pigments from the Madder Root. It was a fun pigment to produces and I got some exceedingly beautiful shades of pigment.
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[@burak5601]

It is hard to tell how I feel right now... Finding a secret, hidden youtube channel about pigment and pigment extraction. I’m as happy as a kid finding out that Santa Claus brought him the best gift he could ever imagine for the Christmas haha As a pigment nerd, I genuinely feel like I found a treasure. SUBSCRIBED!!!

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Thank you very much, I started this because I am also a massive pigment nerd and was very frustrated at the lack of information on the internet. It's very nice to know that it is reaching the people who appreciate it and that I am able to help pass on what I have learned.

[@el1260]

Its for me the same

[@nurimj5431]

Looove this!! @Burak and @The Alchemical Arts , is there a group in some social media where to hang out where people discuss about pigments???

[@burak5601]

Nuri M I don’t know if there is any but I’d love to join one of those!

[@nurimj5431]

Cooool, I feel less weird now lol. Burak would it be silly to create one? Wich platform to use?

[@michaelhemmingartist]

I think it's important for all artists to see how the materials they use are produced. So easy to buy your tubes and not give a thought to the science behind it. Very interesting video and look forward to seeing more. Thank you.

[@satina1169]

makes it even more special when you made the pigment yourself and then use it to paint something (if only I had painting skills)

[@maitevillani7371]

I love this color Rose Madder is the best one to paint roses, it ´s so expensive here in Brazil, but is very complicated to do

[@odinmcmiir7459]

Eu faço alguns pigmentos históricos se precisar

[@jag24x]

Keep to the long format please! Love your knowledge on all of this.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

I will do, I think its important to be a in depth as I can. Glad you enjoy it thank you.

[@daniellehaggard7401]

Lol. You draining madder root is much like me straining apple juice.

[@oakherder17]

I loved the format of the video, interesting informative and educational. Witha dash of entertainment, that froth!!

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Thank you, I have got a little better at dealing with the froth when I make it these days but it's still always exciting.

[@Niluzorus]

I also tried make pigments at home inspired by you (also other youtubers -I don't have those fancy materials tho) and also I recorded. I am planning add here referring you. Such an amazing work. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@pashaveres4629]

Thanks for another great video! That book is available online as a PDF, come to find out. Thanks again. Aloha

[@melaniehellum1281]

Interesting enjoyed this a lot.

[@robertcrockerWCS]

Fascinating color

[@BrandiCouch]

One of my favourite pigments; so excited to watch this!!

[@TheLateleks]

They printed the Library stamps! Love the book reproduction.

[@ayulash]

love your videos! long format is grate

[@MichaelMarko]

This was spectacular!! Thanx so much!

[@stephanierault1550]

The long format is great! I have some madder roots I ordered.... can't wait to experiment with them! Thank you for the video.

[@gadgetgirl2496]

After I watched your first video of making watercolor paint I sent it to my art teacher Mr. Jesse at my adult day center art studio cause someone donated a bunch of pure pigments and we have the binders to make watercolor and gouache and are gonna get Linseed or flaxseed to make oil paints so I shared it so when it comes time to make paints from pure pigments we have a video to watch and a cool, awesome, amazing, and professionally informative and interesting art channel to watch to gain knowledgeable insights on paint pigment making.

[@jenzdelight]

Oh wow. I love your videos. Brilliant

[@Kumarr15369]

I think the long video is so useful and you don't hold anything back , it is really kind of you, as ive never done pigments before , so im excited to experiment, and Madder root at least here(India) is super reasonable, and so I can share the pigment with my students as well, though I think im going to gift them the finished color, but all thanks to you .....

[@jamescook1364]

Well done. You created quite a lot.

[@justine.Semidea]

This is so interesting and full of content, really nice, thank you very much fot this video :D

[@MarcGebhard]

Great, informative video. I'm hoping to experiment with madder very soon!

[@marcella18021993]

Love this, there aren't so many videos about pigments, rhanks for this, will Share with my colleagues 😍

[@tinydancer4Him]

I really appreciated your info! The long format did not bother me; I am from the 70s-80s so we have long attention spans LOL.

[@PM-so6cr]

I love the long format video like this. It is so informative. I'm looking for your next video.

[@zviadimeqvabishvili3944]

Hello! Thank you friend! It is a very interesting process, after a long wait, Good luck to you!

[@jerzyka1154]

Hej, bardzo ciekawy instruktarz. Dzięki serdeczne za podzielenie się wiedzą Pozdrawiam

[@Skipperau]

I learnt so much from this video. Thank you very for sharing your knowledge.

[@somedude4122]

Man this channel is a frikking goldmine. Please keep up the amazing work. Unfortunately as a student I can’t become a patron, but I will as soon as a get a job. Thank you

[@marcella18021993]

The long format ir perfect!!! Hahah

[@chancehampton8636]

Love this shit, grateful for your vids brother!

[@jaimejolley8586]

I have been wanting to learn more about this thanks for showing the whole process! That was so helpful. And I discovered something funny. I think my cow milking machine will do the same thing as your filter pump. And my cow milk filters will work well as pigment filters, lol. Who knew they were so similar :)

[@LOOOVEIT]

Great video. I love the long format. It was fun watching one of my favorite pigments being made (especially by someone who isn't old and stuffy). Do you ever sell the pigment? Thanks!

[@gerryarty8342]

Well done :). It's frotty Man. Lovley c.f. comercial sources. Nice to know what your yield.. Shades of George Field :). Like the long format.. longer the better

[@xxkarazxx]

I rarely leave a comment but this video is so informative and shows in clear steps how to extract the beautiful shades of madder lake. Thank you for your time and effort!

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Thank you. I had look at your Instagram looks like you up to some really cool stuff.

[@xxkarazxx]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Thank you! I'll follow your instructions in making madder lake and give it a try. Will tag you in instagram to see the result!

[@alexandrdementiev8750]

Thanks for the video! It encourages to make madder lake paint. Although it is relatively lightfast, it is said to fade rapidly in mixtures with some other paints, I made swatches of color mixes of it with different paints.

[@juliesczesny90]

Ancestor of mine, created mass production of Sulfuric Acid.

[@l-eaglestone]

I'd like to thank you for making the video. I'm certainly interested enough to watch more of your videos when I'll be able to. Huh, when others were doing the process with other products, it seemed to me like there were at least a couple steps skipped. And based by just this video, I can see why. Patience seems to be the key to the process, aside from ingredients. From your comment in one of your replies about dissolving organic matter from the source (either via acid or fermentation), I think I understand the process a bit better. I guess reading the book may be very helpful as well. I'd love to try something akin to this with other organic stuff, but since I don't have means or precautions to feel safe with using acids, I think I'll stick to the other method if I do end up trying it. Better safe than sorry.

[@juanugon1259]

Great video, i tried this recipe and i got a really nice purply-red. Have you made cochineal lake? Would you consider making a video about it? Pleaaase?

[@luciomucci5805]

I'm so happy to have found this video! Thanks a lot, you give a good example as with YT it can right connect the world in terms of distance, time and science. I subscribed immediately on this channel, Thanks so much! Do you think to make a video about red extraction of carminic acid of cohichineal? Thanks!

[@nurimj5431]

I just started creating minerals, but unlike you guys I am not a chemist, I only go for natural process or really simple processes. I wonder what you had for preservation since it is an organic based pigment. Great work and SO interesting and enjoyable!!

[@maitevillani7371]

Superbe! But, buy all this equipments, I don´t know I´ll be the tube ....Winton...I´m not so courageous, but Bravo! Nice colors!

[@NessaWolfeMuller]

I did the frothy mess thing once too lol… eeek

[@alexamirkhan1361]

Thanks I loooove long videos and you do explain the things very good! I am messy too hahaha! I try to understand your technique, well ist it from the book? I learnd the lake extraction from two Maestras in Mexico... it is a bit diffrent, i would love to talk about it with you.

[@binodkumar-yc2xr]

Hiiii, very happy New year to you and your family... I have small request kindly make a full video syanthatic colour like blue

[@christerryn]

Super interesting, as a painter I have been producing some pigments myself but this information is really very practical. Please share some more stuff. Ever don something with lapis lazuli?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Thank you, what pigments have you been making? I have worked with lapis lazuli a bit but have yet to get the results I want, I have some on the go that I will get back too soon when I have the time. Too many pigments to try and make.

[@andreamurillo4919]

Hola, me encantan tus videos, muy interesantes!!! Podrías escribir los nombres de los componentes que usas, muchas gracias ☺️

[@pashaveres4629]

This is great - thanks! You've a red mess everywhere? I've been making Prussian blue - and I've got a blue mess everywhere. At least it's pretty, eh? :)

[@ninacadzow6303]

Hello- i have made a lot of lakes but never madder-and followed your recipe and method and for some reason it will not precipitate! any suggestions as to why this happens- i have added more solutions of alum and alkali, and am loathe to add more as i can see the alum is turning the liquor more brown. I have decanted into a bigger vessel and added more water , but to no avail- can i save this? love your channel and really appreciate the knowledge you share. Many thanks nina

[@gadgetgirl2496]

Also, I watched this video cause I now have fallen in love with madder pigments made into paint especially after I needed a specific paint pigment for a painting of mine and saw this tube of paint by Interactive Acrylics that looked very interesting and when I saw the how the pigment came out the tube, how pure, rich, how it looked on the pallet, and how it was the perfect color for my piece of art. I said I have to get myself this color for my own incorporated art studio at home, so I took a look at the front of the tube and it said Red Brown Madder or Red Brown Madder Deep and I was like wow, this is such and awesome and amazing earthy pigment color and it’s not even identical in color to Alizarin Crimson or Alizarin Crimson Hue, but it’s like it’s Alizarin Crimson and Alizarin Crimson Hue’s analogous and complementary next door pigment paint neighbor on the color wheel or Munschel Color theory hart

[@HimmelsscheibeNebra]

Thanks for advising Dr Josef Bersch and this book (at 4:29 ). I just had a first look into it and the amount of information almost shocked me. Where to start?!? Also today, I ordered some Rubia tinctorum seeds, the first little step into the journey of lake pigment making is made, but I am sure that there is still a lot to learn and equipment to organize. I tried to order Rubia tinctorum, Artemis tinctoria and Isatis tinctoria or Indigofera tinctoria from one single source, but this seems to be almost impossible. Not even getting the seeds together is an easy thing. Anyway, it feels good to have made the first little step.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Good luck with the growing of the madder it can be a long process. I hope you manage to find some raw materials for lake making, look at natural dying suppliers as they often have what you need.

[@HimmelsscheibeNebra]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Oh yes. Inspired by your "color garden" video, I prepped a piece in the garden awaiting delivery of Rubia tinctorum seeds. In the meantime, I learned that harvesting via the seeds procedure will be in three years (via separation from plants it would be 2 years). That might be too long for waiting to start with lake pigment making. But in the meantime, I can also gain some experience with "color gardening" and one of the oldest dye plants used by mankind is working in our little garden, how cool is that?!?

[@ksb1050]

How to keep the colors of lake pigment from fading away? Because many lake pigments are fugitive. Should we add some vinegar as a mordant or something else? Thanks!

[@matthiascarroll1924]

I think I'm in love! As a chemist I thoroughly enjoy seeing labware put to good use, I would offer one critique and one suggestion. 1) every chemical reagent appears to be labeled appropriately except for the most hazardous - the sulfuric acid. Additionally, using a stir rod as a path of least resistance should help minimize spills when pouring from a container such as a bowl without a pour spout...easier said than done, though. Also, I'm surprised to not see a quirt/rinse bottle to help clean out residuals from beakers. I'm looking forward to catching up on your videos, I too hope to make a ball mill in the future to process materials. Cheers!

[@staffanscherloff4596]

I’m also a chemist and these were also my first thoughts when seeing this interesting video.

[@MrNedelcuBogdan]

Can you please make a video on how to make madder rosinate. It's near of what you did, but I can't find a good recipe. From what I have found the colophony is dissolved in potassium hydroxide, then the madder is macerated in acetic acid few days and let to dry, after that the color is extracted in alcohol, then the alcohol is used on the KOH-colophonium solution, and alum is added to precipitated madder rosinate. Please make a video on this. I want to learn how to do it, and I am sure many begginer violin makers will thank you!

[@gildejesus3714]

About this pigment, i was going to ask you if it is safe to put a little aluminium sulfate to increase its colour. (The way it comes from the suplier is very messy and dull). Added to it i also add a little borax with cinnamon sirup. (Cooked in sunlight)

[@mateuszminsky5619]

do oil and watercolor and tempera and glue tests strips

[@ghostofla4367]

Can the same messurment of madder be used for any other plant? Lets say for example id like to use lavander or dandilion could i still use 100g of said plant? Or are these messurments exclusive to madder root?

[@Mandakyns2]

Can you use a strong base like a lye perhaps instead of the sulphuric acid to break it down? It also reacts immediately with water heating up very quickly and remaining hot for a long period of time. I don’t have access currently to sulphuric acid but have madder, alum, & washing powder to experiment with.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

No an alkali would not be suitable. You can get good results still with out the sulphuric acid. Another method is to soak the madder in water till it ferments and then do the extraction.

[@Mandakyns2]

@@TheAlchemicalArts ok. I seem to recall that i attempted to use it to color soap but it changed the hue of the madder when I put it in with the lye. Thank you for your response!!

[@knitperu]

Se puede hacer sin ácido sulfúrico?

[@CarlosRamirez-ih7kf]

I made some time ago a nice pigment with beet but it got darker in few months ...so i got a question is this color stable ?

[@aerochairman7638]

hello nice work done by you . Please explain how to make two shade color pigments like green color to blue (optical variable color pigment)

[@zviadimeqvabishvili3944]

Hello! I apologize, I wonder after the Video When Will I see you and what color pigment should you prepare? I have very high expectations for the preparation of yellow pigment. Thanks.

[@Soapntina]

What can I use instead of sulfuric acid? Will citric acid work?

[@xinyingkong6522]

Hi, I really like your videos, and really curious about the substitute for sulfuric acid if I don't have sulfuric, what's the alternative way I can manually extract madder color at home?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

You can do a cold water extraction which will be more Rosey Pink and less Red. You will take you ground washed madder Root and soak it a jar of water for a week or so that starts fermenting and that will start to break down the chemical in the root and do a similar job that the sulphuric acid is doing. Then you just proceed with the next steps with alum and so forth I was planning on doing a video on the method with out the acid when I get some time. If you want a more info please email me and I will try and write something up. [e-mail]

[@nadakodsia2635]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Thank you so much for your generosity sir and appreciate so much your precious content 🙏🌷🌷🌷 Greetings from North Africa..

[@isabelarnaud5340]

hellooooo very nice video... just wondering about the mill, the ball grinding mill.. could you share the brand or model? Im very instersted.

[@LiborTinka]

Do you know anything about Turkey Red (a.k.a. Harmala Red) dye that is supposedly extracted from Peganum harmala seeds (used for dyeing textiles) ? I am interested in that dye but can't find virtually any information about how it is exactly extracted and purified to obtain just the pigment. Thanks.

[@windsurfer3329]

Can you post your findings about this pigment's light-fastness please? I appreciate your vids :-))

[@soumitrachatterjee1572]

Greaat

[@abdelhalimmessaoudi9898]

Hi can you mixing this colour with white chocolate? Thank you sir

[@HNLinh]

what's size the glass muller you are? thanks sir.

[@QuartermasterPOG]

Are you going by Celsius or Fahrenheit?

[@newtonianartist7088]

19:30 , "the minimum amount of soda in so that the first lot of precipitation is the finest". For your solution of 10% soda, how much is the "minimum amount" for each stage of precipitation? Is there a rule as to how much can be poured in each for each grade of pigment? Or is it an arbitrary volume determined by experience?

[@omarfaruk4451]

Whice matal YOU use to make boma please tell me details

[@teresaborrajo2465]

Thank you very much for your help. It really is the best videos on making lake pigments. I have a question. I am trying to produce lake pigment out of cochineal, as part of a project. Any advice would be extremelly apprecited. I can´t get the lake pigment. I cannot get the right proportions of the ingredients, (cochineal, potassium aluminum sulfate and sodium carbonate.) other question, as silly it may get. The utensils you use I see are all glass. I use basic kitchen utensils. does this affect in any way the results? God if you could make a video out of Cochineal lake pigment! I have tried and tried, I don´t even get the precipitation,( the bubbling). Thank you very very much in advanced.

[@l-eaglestone]

I'm no expert when it comes to chemistry, so I have no clue how to help with proportions, but from some looking up I found out that sodium carbonate is corrosive to plastics and some metals (aluminium, lead, zinc, zinc brasses, perhaps some more?), and potassium alum sulphate might be reactive to metals as well (although I'm not sure about that). Rule of thumb, I think, is that using glass is safest method of mixing/containing chemicals in general, at least to minimise risk of unexpected reactions happening. Sorry if my reply is too late to be of any help (if it could be helpful to begin with...).

[@luciomucci5805]

Dear Teresa, since the dry insect contains about 20% of carminic acid, and for each mol of alume do you need two mol of carminic acid it results (passing through the molar wheight) that you need 1/10 alum in weight of cochineal. I hope I've been helpful

[@Carston1475]

Can madder be used in candles?

[@mateuszminsky5619]

What's the final weight in grammes of alle that madder pigment???

[@suzanneharvey6153]

where do you buy your ground madder from. I need to find somewhere to buy natural pigments in larger quantities

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Here in australia I get it from a natural fabric dye supplier called kraft colour.

[@Vermiliontea]

Madder was famously used in coloring the French army pants. British army red coats? Ermm, I think that was Cochineal.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

It was both that were used. The higher the rank the more pure cochineal was used but a mixture of madder and cochineal was definitely used.

[@bergettepigments]

I’m curious about the strength of the acid you used?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

I am not entirely sure as it was an old unlabeled bottle of acid but I would say that it was probably at least 80% or greater sulfuric acid. Given how small an amount I use I think you could use a weaker amount of sulfuric and still get good results.

[@mateuszminsky5619]

100g of root for one of those dishes at the end, or for all of them>? I got madder growing, 4th year now. I might have to dig it all up soon because of demolition. I expect to have more than 100g. Thanx

[@l-eaglestone]

Pretty sure he got all the pigment from the 100g he was using for the project.

[@bramdeman5820]

Can I ask: how did you end up with different shades from the same mixture?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

I didn't really explain that very well sorry. Ah so things got a little disorganized when it's started foaming up every where but in theory what happened is the earlier precipitated pigment is darker in shade and as more sodium carbonate is added the shade gets lighter but more pigment is formed. The deeper red has a higher concentration of alizarin in it. I hope this answers your question.

[@bramdeman5820]

@@TheAlchemicalArts That's alright! Thank you very much!

[@martacristina8094]

Cuándo la traducción al español??? No sé ingle´s y me pierdo todos los videos.!!!

[@kiranda2984]

please share the link of a book

[@nymalin]

When the madder is ground like that I dont think you'll need to rinse it, since that would have been done before grinding it.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Yeh that is most likely the case but I wash just to be safe

[@lucyskinner5522]

I was wondering how you extracted the different shades of madder? It seems like this is in the missing scene!?

[@lucyskinner5522]

Did you add more NaCO3 to the 2nd and 3rd batches when you got the pink shades?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

The difference comes from either varying amounts of alum used and different amounts of soda, I have actually vastly improved my methods and understanding since making this video and will likely do a more updated video soon.

[@luciomucci5805]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Great! I look forward your following upgrade!

[@lolasilver95]

i have paid disgunting amount for this information and let me tell you, none of them explained this to me, i am so thankful for this, you dont understand, if i can contribute to your doings in any way, let me know

[@shanividal8885]

Is it possible to make watercolors out of real peart power?

[@zviadimeqvabishvili3944]

If I could get red pigment from the roots of this plant?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Ah cool, so the roots I used comes from the Madder plant (rubia tinctorum) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubia_tinctorum It's the one with the most alizarin in it, also the alum you want is Potassium Aluminum Sulfate. I might not of been super clear in the video about the alum. Another thing is you can do it with out the sulfuric acid, it's helps make it better but it's not needed, if you do use the acid be safe with it. You can get other colours from the Madder however I am not sure how and there are lots of other plants that can be used to make lake pigments I am still learning and research them. Good luck I look forward to seeing what you make.

[@zviadimeqvabishvili3944]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Yes, it is understandable, my friend, I'm waiting for your following videos, yellow in color, made of wonder, too, exactly the same process, good luck!

[@thecrystaltemple1583]

Can I buy a genuine rose madder oil paint from you? I’m very frustrated with false advertising of the genuine rose madder pigments in commercial production.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Yes its nearly impossible to find genuine madder oil paint. If you email me @ [e-mail] I might be able to make a custom batch for you.

[@andrealouchene6916]

As much as I appreciate your knowledge and scientific approach (and love your accent), I cannot imagine using sulpheric acid for this. Why not stick to friendlier methods like in your weld pigment video. But even there you used such a large amount of alum and soda which you are having to wash out again, using a lot of water, too. And the pigment will still not be very pure, I believe. I would use Michel Garcia's recipe for lake pigments. It is used around the whole world with great success.

[@binodkumar-yc2xr]

I wanna make the pigment so plz help my us...

[@jeanmarie8525]

Hi, can you sell me this pigment?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

www.thealchemicalarts.com/product-category/pigments/

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

You will find the madder lake pigment on my website

[@etienne7774]

But it's fugitive.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

It is and it isn't, alizarin is sort of stable and psudopurpurin is as well, its mostly the purpurin that is fugitive as far as I understand it. So if you do the right kind of extraction you can get a more stable madder lake.

[@bobbyjoseph7788]

I need to buy the book you showed how and where to buy or order it thk