George Monbiot FULL INTERVIEW: the environment "MYTHS" threatening the world | The New Statesman

[@NewStatesman]

Noam Chomsky told us the world is approaching "the most dangerous point in human history". Watch the full Noam Chomsky interview here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJOacndqbrx8ors

[@veganevolution]

Why won't Chomsky speak to animal ag? I want to know if he simply doesn't care to think about it.

[@fluentpiffle]

It doesn't help by continuing to pretend to be 'sapient' and 'civilised'... These are the blind assumptions that lead to all other 'wrongness' in human activity..

[@veganevolution]

@@fluentpiffle true. Chomsky who I admire, frames things almost dogmatically, as if civilization determines its own fate. We would never determine self destruction for humanity, I believe self destruction is a matter of negligence.

[@fluentpiffle]

@@veganevolution The only other explanation, if we are indeed 'sapient', is insanity..

[@jimwilson946]

I am getting more and more worried about the decarbonisation policies. My main worries are that the don't consider the less wealthy in this country. How are they supposed to cope with the increase in utility prices when they can't feed their families, let alone get an energy saving form of transport to get to work. This policy only works the very middle classes.

[@karleeschnyder4980]

I am sharing the book "Regenesis" with anyone and everyone I know --- thank you George Monbiot!

[@helenamcginty4920]

Added to my booklist for when I have the cash to spare. Too many demands on money these days it becomes overwhelming. Emails from so many deserving charities.

[@PaulThompson500]

Imagine bringing back more forests to the UK/Europe, and how much nicer it would be, rather than miles of fields with the same crop. 5 years, not eating meat. Enjoying my food and feeling fine.

[@40yearoldvirgil15]

People have been brainwashed into thinking acres and acres of green field with a few animals on it is good for biodiversity and the planet. Bonkers.

[@thesilkpainter]

Forests take centuries to grow. Hie is he planning to do that, with the climate changing so drastically ? I foresee more forest disappearing in the near future ..without humans cutting down. Sorry to be so negative.

[@thesilkpainter]

@bina nocht good for you. I do believe that nature will survive...humans will be cut to size, at least. There will not be enough forest left to help, climate is changing faster than trees can adapt, even the most amazing ones. I live nature and understand how you marvel at it. Cause it is bloody brilliant. But I can't see us as a mass changing enough to all survive and forests will have to rebuild and it just takes a mature forest that is resilient hundreds of years to grow. Especially now where the climate will change drastically and even established forests will be in Trouble. I can recommend a book...beautiful as well as scary: The treeline. I am currently in the south of France and we are seeing forests being destroyed by fire day after day. The same happened in 2019 or 2020 in Sibiria...but on an unimaginable scale lakes are disappearing, land is being eroded the permafrost is melting the treeline us moving ..much faster than it should. I wish you were be right I hope y ou u are but I can't believe it.

[@thesilkpainter]

@bina nocht it gives me no pleasure. I want you to be right. And you have given me some reassurance that even if we as humans have fucked up unbelievably, life itself isn't dead. So . Better than nothing, hey .

[@ruppollock4392]

Enjoying your life but can't see how getting rid of food producing land will impact on available food. Total disconnect.

[@compostjohn]

Excellent interview. I endorse what Monbiot says - why aren't we using the vast amounts of wastes from our kitchens, toilets and food factories to enhance soils? Instead we use fossil gas to make 'artificial fertiliser' to get crops big. We could, should, be composting and valuing this material, and using anaerobic digestion which gives us biogas to replace fossil methane, AND a digestate containing NPK to apply to cropland. Doing this would be really easy. Hopefully increasing fossil carbon prices will push things in the right direction with 'the market', but we need government to help that happen too. Carbon rationing anyone?

[@clarewilmot6286]

Need to get over the yuck factor on poop and rot! Awesome book. Terrifying, but wish more people had power to change the thoughts of at least one person who had a bully pulpit!

[@rebeccaslater1398]

Wonderful man , we need to listen to him and go forward to a brighter future for animals and humans .

[@robertcircleone]

I have said this for years. Almost everything is wrong. PS, I have been vegan more than 50 years.

[@veganevolution]

So you are one of the undead? Vegan 2 years vegetarian for four, first tried vegetarianism 6 years ago. I had lots of medical challenges though and couldn't support myself financially very well. Since going vegetarian, I've known veganism is for me, an ethically consistent resolve

[@vanderteufel]

Congratulations. Monbiot has been a vegan for 15 minutes and the fucker now wants everyone else to follow his example. If I live to be 59 and the world has not yet ended I'll think about becoming one too. Meanwhile he has a book to sell.

[@40yearoldvirgil15]

Wow longest I've heard 👏 Been vegan coming up 6 years from mid 20s.

[@SMABEM]

50 years? That's impressive.

[@juliewake4585]

Well done. I wish I had: it’s only a year since I finally gave up fish and became a vegan.

[@susiegreaves7283]

He had a passion for nuclear fusion for a while. I will listen to what he says about how to feed the world with an open mind but I ask wveryone who worships him to listen to him critically and above all listen to other voices!

[@johnbehan1526]

What is suddenly disqualifying about being hopeful about nuclear fusion?

[@susiegreaves7283]

@@johnbehan1526 The French and probably other countries have spent millions on this for the past two decades. They have got nowhere. The dangers are simply insurmountable. I will reply later with references. Sorry going out now.

[@susiegreaves7283]

@@johnbehan1526 hello John. Try Daniel Jassby writing about nuclear fusion in general and about the French project ITER " ITER is a showcase for the drawbacks of fusion energy".

[@Mrm1985100]

4:07 "quite shocking": About ten years ago I wrote a short undergraduate thesis on factory farming and the fact that free-range had much a larger environmental impact was well known and readily available information. I don't understand why it's "shocking"....

[@michaelrch]

Because the marketing of free range organic animal ag has been so effective. It now shocks people to learn that the marketing was a total fraud.

[@thesilkpainter]

@@michaelrch ...well.its still better for the animals raised.😁

[@michaelrch]

@@thesilkpainter Still pretty goddamn awful though.

[@maiqueashworth]

It's really important to understand that protein is not equivalent to meat. When you think about it, it's obviously so: where does a cow or sheep get all its protein from? Mostly grass. Or grain and soya. There is also plenty is quality fat, with large amounts of omega 3, in plant foods. We don't need me technologies, we just need to start eating like our ancestors did ie largely plant and mushroom based.

[@guapochino140]

People say they need to eat fish for the omega 3s... which the fish get from algae.

[@davidpalk5010]

@@guapochino140 Money talks. The animal agriculture industry says we need to eat fish and meat and dairy. The scientists don't agree. Too many consumers will always fall for the marketing.

[@johnbehan1526]

@@guapochino140 idk my ancestors didn't have bell peppers. There are omega oils in seeds and plants, and I but vegan supplements. I don't think the answers lie in our overfished oceans and polluted waterways sadly.

[@mythtree6348]

@@guapochino140 algae rips your gut to bits and fish is a super food .. thats the problem. this is utterly terrifying cos veganism does not work .. not at all currently. this is sooo scary.

[@the0point]

Monbiot is a genius.

[@junejefferies212]

Read the book!Best thing to happen in 2022

[@Adventureswithcal]

This man is a gem

[@chriscavaliere9405]

Not only is grass fed land intensive, it is great risk to wildlife in terms of displacement but also to predators as well as those casualties of predator culling which would be vastly multiplied. This especially in continuing current numbers of global livestock, or even in halving that number.

[@juskahusk2247]

A great risk to wildlifeicious.

[@ruppollock4392]

And growing crops is any better. No growing crops has even less wildlife as there are no hedges and shelter belts. Most land is marginal and is not suitable for veg, cereals but is ideal for growing grass. Growing grass is totally sustainable as FYM is produced and recycled and is powered by the sun. As a farmer actually producing food here in Ireland, not just talking about it, I know what I'm talking about. George will lead to starvation and is is very anti farming and is totally one side.

[@TheStruggler101]

​@@ruppollock4392 Crops aren't perfect but do we not try to survive? The fact is that most crops are grown to feed livestock, so eliminating animal agriculture would free up a tremendous amount of land. There would be no need to have anywhere near the same amount of farmland to feed the human population, probably would only need a third. The rest can be given back to nature and would no doubt be able to sequester a whole lot of carbon.

[@leskuzyk2425]

One thing I found about a decade ago, running scenarios with the Ecological Footprint calculator, was the significant, if not huge, reduction in footprint by simply switching the food you eat. I was amazed at the time. Such a simple solution. Anyone could, given the choice in altering your protein source. Don't eat meat, in very basic terms. However, the motivation to actually act, has not yet hit people. The climate crisis, like Russian roulette, has become a high risk game. At 2C, we will be pulling the trigger twice. Onwards ...

[@veganevolution]

But also we are holding pharmaceutical and animal ag industry accountable

[@veganevolution]

It (factory and large-scale farming) is the longest running holocaust which is so obvious, yet so insulated media and hers mentality.

[@vanderteufel]

We need to play with more bullets

[@globalist1990]

@@veganevolution when the base is wrong, everything will be wrong. They don’t want to address that. They have nothing but contempt for farmers and the like as well. They don’t care as long as they can eat whatever they want.

[@globalist1990]

@@magnusmauritz8191 no. You're just trying to buy crap processed vegan foods, or maybe avocados and quinoa... 🤷‍♂️

[@markgwilliam9498]

Bloody hell george,how do you still manage to raise a smile? Amazing work,but so sad to hear

[@mythtree6348]

earning fortune from promoting the new tech maybe? i got wealthy non vegans to invest in it and they were gleeful at the potential profits. Discovering that veganism is a disaster has left me far more depressed overall but I've noted cynical meat eaters creating malnourishing gloop for the poor and it's clearly making them very happy.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

My personal experience: once I really started eating less meat, I ate less and less automatically. Because vegetarian food is very tasty and easy to make. So it may be a good approach to persuade people to eat less meat, which may be scaring off less people. The government should help by raising taxes on meat, making it more expensive.

[@globalist1990]

If people would have to source, prepare and cook their food, they would become vegan very quickly.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

@@globalist1990 I agree. We 'outsourced' the killing of animals to slaughterhouses. On the other hand, killing an animal as opposed to dying of starvation would be a different matter. You would be used to it very quickly. What I meant is this: convincing people is better than forcing them. That said, price is a powerful incentive that can and must be used.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

@bina nocht Not an ethical tax. A real tax, one that taxes the climate and environmental impact. The tax should be used to ease the transition to a more sustainable way of living. And yes, the transport from other continents should be included. But even then, the footprint of vegetarian food is much less than that of meat.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

@bina nocht ehhh, I wrote ‘ethical’. Just for the record.

[@globalist1990]

@bina nocht i can already picture it, one pig in every apartment. Hands down, most people wouldn't have anything to do with killing and butchering animals. You go on and think otherwise🤷‍♂️

[@TheLastSongbird124]

It all makes sense and he mentions things I had not heard of before, however, it's also fair to say that most of the negative issues George speaks of could be said to be greatly exacerbated by the population the Earth now contains. If we think about such numbers as 8 billion and all that 'requires' in today's world, it could be said that if we take the tech nutrients route of feeding humans, it is this enormous volume of people that will forever act to dilute any such new & positive food options?

[@karate4348]

thanks for what you are saying George.. I actually find what you are saying refreshing. The cultural tropes of mass production (including the thoughtless mass production of children growing up in so much pain and not just the 'poor ones') are mad.

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Yes as a 53yr old childless woman, I am glad I do have to watch children grow up into the world that is coming.

[@donrayjay]

Banning books? What a bizarre suggestion

[@karleeschnyder4980]

Excellent interview thank you! "Carnism" is engrained into all of our perspectives, and we mostly have no idea it's there.

[@helenamcginty4920]

Well we do seem to have evolved as meat eaters. Although because our ancient forebears also learned how to harness fire and cook vegetables we can also eat roots and leaves as well as fruit and nuts to supplement our diets. This sadly also led us onto farming with all its unintended consequences.

[@pmfsv]

Being an aspiring vegan (still transitioning..) and someone who cares deeply about all of the topics Mr. monbiot tackles, I can help but feel he's quite a bit extreme in places. One should be able to discern when the good is the enemy of the optimal and when the optimal is just the enemy of any sort of change at all. I can't fathom how grass fed beef can be worse for the environment then factory farming. It's not sustainable, for sure, in terms of need we have for food in relation to the population of the earth but it is a farm more (if not 100%) natural process of growing an animal. Also, the need for infrastructure when compared to lab grown protein, again. I find it hard to make the point it is more cost effective and environmentally friendly. I also don't understand why he does not dispel outright the myth than protein equates to either animal. Meat (insects included) or lab grown products. All plants have protein, legumes most of all and in quite the right concentration. Being too extreme however right you are is not productive. Has some good points though.

[@mythtree6348]

veganism very nearly killed me within decade and has wrecked everyone i know who tried it. the long term famous vegans cheat regularly .. thats why this all disturbs me so much . i regret ever going vegan :(

[@pmfsv]

@@mythtree6348 well, that's just a bit too vague to take as gospel. Firstly, vegan does not automatically mean healthy. Coke is vegan, not healthy, mars bars are vegan, not healthy.. And so on And so on. Nevertheless, I may very well admit you're not talking about eating junk food all the time.. And still there are to many variables at play.

[@mythtree6348]

@@pmfsv yawn . im not daft. i'm referring to the well planned , endlessly supplemented vegan diet. ive never met a junk food vegan.

[@pmfsv]

@@mythtree6348 well that's good to know. That you're not daft, I mean.and still there a million reasons things could've turned out bad. It's your experience, learn from it. For all the other's who live a vegan lifestyle and are healthy adn happy.. Who's to say otherwise? Cheers.

[@mythtree6348]

@@pmfsv my experience of 1000s of sick vegans .. yup

[@dereknewbury163]

We need this radical thinking

[@peterdollins3610]

What do you think of vertical cages growing seaweed & seafood? Have you covered this? Make patents too weak where is the spur for invention & innovation? Food collapse is a growing threat to the world. See Laurie Garrett's 'The Coming Plague' published 1994 & her other works. It should be titled 'The Coming Plgues,' Another massive threat.

[@stuartgraca]

I appreciate this debate, I have for years felt, but not known, that the strongest influence on climate is farming. I do not think that farmers deliberately adopt methods that create problems but there is a lack of coordination on national level as to the effects each farm as on climate. Historically it is farming that as changed the natural balance and as reformed the landscape, industry as possibly contributed more to pollution and is more localized and generally affects rivers. The creation if huge farms removes plant cover and trees plus the biodiversity connected to them, this will affect weather patterns and when we look at it on a global scale the effects can be dramatic. It will also affect areas with small scale farming by micro climate changes, so within any area the effects if each farm and land use , needs to be monitored and evaluated to prevent a conspiracy of weather patterns becoming a pattern for a national problem. Along side of this as to be the awareness of social planning, the heat radiation etc of hones and industrial premises as well as road surfaces and the use of trees for shade and as heat sinks as well as trees for reducing loss of land moisture. The udea if vertical farming inside or along side cities and towns seems to me to be a good step in realizing food can be produced without using farm land and land can be our saviour from drought or other extreme weather changes.

[@johnj6087]

Well done, George. I am excited by the prospect of our culture making a shift in the direction you suggest

[@davidtempleman2855]

George is overlooking what doesn’t align with his ideology. He is projecting onto others what he himself engages in; being wrong.

[@liborsionko]

​@@davidtempleman2855 His 'idealogy' of a future.

[@40yearoldvirgil15]

@@davidtempleman2855 fancy explaining how George is wrong?

[@naomiblunt4902]

I dare you to go on Country File George! 😆Great book as was Feral, you and Nick Hayes ( Book of Trespass) are brave men!

[@No9Shrek]

Very challenging, While I don't doubt the vital part it can play in ecosystem recovery I am moved to wonder if the case for 'precision fermentation' of protein and fat is perhaps being 'oversold' by george. After all, even in the wildest natural landscapes there will be grazing animals and I believe that even the Knepp Estate ( home of UK re-wilding) they are moving to adopt more of a traditional pasture system of land management. Such systems of land management would never achieve intensive factory production levels of meat but they could probably satisfy a basic level of meat production, especially if precision fermentation becomes the mass protein supply method. Despite trying many 'alternative' meat food items I have yet to taste one that was indistinguishable from the real meat, this is a major barrier to full adoption of alternatives to meats.

[@shinywarm6906]

Monbiot mentions Knepp in the book. He estimates that if 10% of UK farmland switched to Knepp-style farming, it would produce enough meat to supply every person in the UK with 3 meals *per year*. The fundamental problem is that the land take for meat production is so high, it cannot produce the quantity of protein we need

[@davidpalk5010]

So you're prepared to exploit, kill and destroy for a slight difference in taste? Come on...

[@mythtree6348]

@@davidpalk5010 shakes head .. nutrition is not 'taste' .. veganism wrecks people. globally.

[@karate4348]

We need to remember that we are animals and civilization is grown out of the insecurity of repeated colonisation of people over thousands of years: women raped, men killed and children traumatised, over millenia in the northern hemisphere. If we are really the clever 'humans' we think we are... We must ask ourselves what we can actually offer our children's lives in the 'progress' of crazy modern culture , from the nice houses and cars and money 'standard' of childhood being sold across the world, to the mass organised abuse and neglect of children which is the underbelly of all of this. We lived very simply with familiar plants and animals, land, waters and skies for hundreds of thousands of years...keeping ourselves balanced with nature rather than dominating and killing it and each other... then fortressing ourselves more and more in settlements 'growing' and fencing life and having children without considering them as most indigenous people on their own land with culture in tact still do. The last 10,000 years or so is a blip in that time and the years since the industrial madness began is a dot on the i of all of those years of tried and tested living with the reality of nature. The real world for all animals is wild. Modern nonsense is being driven by the humanimal sickness and inbalance with nature, separating ourselves from her with our ridiculous arrogance and 'brains'. This sickness is a giant addiction... to 'progress'. technology, to shopping, speeding around, watching screens, not having time for what is important... we are so brain driven that we are ignoring the catastrophies of what is happening to our children and our magnificent planet. Abused children are the foundation of civilization.... abuse from time of conception utterly leaves us insecure... Look to the indigenous people and ask them how to live. They have the answers. Listen to them... especially those who's last wild homes we are destroying right now. I'm sorry George, you may feel hopeful with your book... but the 'cleverness' of humans which is really about kidding ourselves that we are not animals is what is destroying so much life including the animals we know as 'humans'. We are really apes and until we face the reality of that, we are going to become more and more like the machines we make and there is no future for life in impersonating models, machines, talking and behaving like them.

[@oliviachipperfield6029]

Truth

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Interesting but like the podcast far too long.

[@mythtree6348]

dear god !!! no indigenous people were anything like vegan .. all wrecked their environment to some degree, some very much so. tribes killed each other and many were cannibals . veganism doesnt yet work anywhere, even candhi couldnt survive as a vegan with expert doctors to help him. reall veganism is very very hard to sustain and id say never healthy. you wouldnt be alive had your ancestors been vegan.

[@mythtree6348]

@@oliviachipperfield6029 not truth ! itll take a miracle to get a vegan diet that works. the rich will never go vegan, they arent stupid.

[@nomad9338]

Go vegan, not just for the planet, but also for the poor animals, who are subjected to unimaginable suffering, and for your health. If you eat the bodies of these poor tortured animals, you're much more likely to get colon cancer and heart attacks. Please have a heart and go vegan. For your health, for the animals, and for the planet.

[@mythtree6348]

veganism destroys health .. smart cultures will never risk it.

[@DarkDeepGreen]

Good interview! I've been vegan for over a half year now. I thought the same thing about honey, thanks for the information.

[@juliewake4585]

Nearly a year for me. No to honey.

[@helenamcginty4920]

But now we have to consider almonds etc. I was appalled when I discovered relatively recently about the annual trans shipment of millions of bees to California to fertilize the almond flowers. Millions dying from the stress. I have not got round to finding out why the hives cannot be set up in the almond orchards permanently.

[@Diana1000Smiles]

Climate Change is the most important topic on Earth, currently, because if we Humans cannot solve the problem all else is moot.

[@MrRibbett454]

Do we need precision fermentation, though? Can't we get all the protein we need to feed from plants? All essential amino acids exist in varying quantities in all plants, with higher quantities of protein found in beans, nuts and in minimally processed forms like tofu and tempeh. We don't need to rely on brand new tech to solve this problem. Seems like a distraction.

[@31Blaize]

I would argue yes, we do. Convincing the entire planet to become vegan just isn't possible (or even plausible). Using this as an alternative may well have a better chance of success. Even in 2022, try asking your average American if they'd give up their burgers - it's an actual culture war talking point over there :(

[@MrRibbett454]

Hi. I agree that to change people's behaviour we need to make transition as appealing and as easy as possible, but don't we already have hyper palatable and cheap meat analogues which compare very favourably with burgers etc? And from my understanding these are rapidly becoming more scalable, cheaper and higher in quality. This new tech George seems to be pinning our futures on just seems like another one. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for more sophisticated meat alternatives, I just don't think it has to be framed as an imperative.

[@johnbehan1526]

The point is more that we could use less land for agriculture and more for slowing climate change.

[@spyro5484]

george monbiot legend

[@ashleygraham8781]

In his own mind, maybe.

[@spyro5484]

@@ashleygraham8781 best possible start

[@astrid.00.7]

If you honestly think government antitrust laws would be effective against consolidation of food production, you are hopelessly naïve. There isn’t one industry where antitrust laws have been enforced for longer than a decade without being repealed to benefit political campaigns via corporate donors.

[@666bruv]

The current global crop production standard is way more destructive than open rangeland grazing

[@ruppollock4392]

Beef and lamb farmer here in Ireland. Mixed farming with forestry and hedges. Incredible wildlife here. Bees, dung beetles, spiders, worms. Duck, snipe, woodcock, herons,Buzzards woodpeckers, Robins etc. Hares, rabbits. Badgers, foxes, pin Martins, otters. Serious full time farmer and really don't appreciated being told that producing food is bad for the environment. Atleast have some balance.

[@davidpalk5010]

Like honey? Just use golden syrup instead. In most uses you'll never notice the difference.

[@andrewtrip8617]

If your going to claim organic pasture fed is the worst for ecology you have to explain why pasture and ruminants are not part of ecology .And then explain why Gmo fermentation is part of ecology.

[@chrysalicechristopheranderson]

GO GEORGE...!!

[@veganevolution]

I don't favor the shade thrown at the animal activists. As one myself, it is difficult balancing ethics and climate needs since one interest seems to make one appear bias towards the other interests, like health and the climate. At least this is how i feel. Good work!

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

Humans are animals too. We as a species are going to have difficulty surviving if we don't put ourselves first.

[@hoodygod110]

I had springtails in my soil when I grew some plants and I had never seen them before I thought they were gonna kill my plant

[@lukerobinson3983]

Ban factory farming, the other ideas will not end well. To tackle the problem being spoken of the capitalist led profit over all food system needs to be dismantled. Swapping to a similarly profit driven food system run by multinationals will only continue the degradation of quality and will inevitably bring its own problems in the long term. Look at the plant and seed alternatives to dairy as an example as these are also not healthy for humans and not healthy for the planet when done on an industrial scale. The race to the bottom in farming was exacerbated by the rise of the supermarket driven by cost cutting to gain market share at the expense of quality and safe practice. Farmers don’t have a choice once they are in the trap of supplying a large company if they threaten with a stop to purchasing unless the costs are reduced. The farmer is left with potential bankruptcy with no other market to sell to in the same quantities.

[@DavidHembrow]

The message is basically correct but good emphasis on processed meat substitutes is a bit bonkers. I'm just about 30 years vegan. I'm not against occasional consumption of veggie burger type products but really wouldn't want them to make up a large part of my diet. Pulses, beans, and plenty of varied veg provide a balanced and very tasty diet without having to include expensive vat grown and highly processed products as a large proportion of your diet.

[@mythtree6348]

i doubt most people who claim to be 30 year vegans .. my ex cheats all the time. the longest term famous vegans on yt cheated regularly. veganism destroyed my health in a decade. you only need to look at most vegans to know its not working anywhere. do you have any film or photo evidence ?

[@pedrothewise2584]

Dont we need some animal manure for organic fertilisers

[@veganevolution]

We also should consider profitable ways to utilize land that will also draw down CO2 levels. Hemp is the best plant i know of, and it would be widely accessed if it weren't for the cotton mill, and racist interests pretty much.against Mexicans and blacks. Hemp can actually heal depleted soil and absorb CO2 very fast, perhaps faster than some forests.

[@hew195050]

Even tho EVERYTHING else is criminal and corrupt with greed by sociopaths, we can have this be humane. sure 🙄

[@stephenwise2735]

20.00 ish - lack of enforcement - common thread all the way back to Grenfell disaster. No point on introducing new regulations if you don't enforce them.

[@SMABEM]

Well grains contain protein and fat. These femented meats are more for taste than any nutritional requirements.

[@johnbehan1526]

I believe the point is about cellular cultivation further reducing land usage. One of the more wild claims George has glommed onto recently is that this tech could feed the world using no more land than the area of greater London. Then there's also the carbon footprint of fertiliser and harvest. Whether or not it's reasonable or even possible, I can see an argument or two in favour of favouring other food sources than intensive grain.

[@charlesabboud1613]

This was an extraordinary talk, it really opened my eyes, thank you very much Mr Monbiot and the New Statesman for having this conversation in the first place but also for putting it up on KZbin

[@ironmitchtyson]

Poshos telling poor people they can't eat healthy food.

[@mythtree6348]

yes , :(

[@laluba3603]

So the number one must be getting money out of politic, while educating ourselves.

[@atendriyadasa6746]

This points to the basic problem - CORPORATE PERSONHOOD.

[@kmadge9820]

Everyone going to breast feed? All 'caregivers' ? All going to stop working for 2 years per child ? Idyllic but what are the financial impacts on ability to feed ones children post breast feeding ?

[@anthonymorris5084]

It is not a sin to leave an environmental footprint in the creation of human flourishing.

[@veganevolution]

It is if you walk over the lives of other humans

[@valq10]

Very true Anthony. But what happens when the footprint inhibits human flourishing?

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@valq10 The answer to that question should be self evident, but it should be noted that we live in a free society. People have a right to choose, and we don't legislate against stupidity. Authoritarianism is also a serious detriment to human flourishing and the environment. Many people incorrectly believe that the Earth is some kind of pristine place of purity and harmony. A place that humans, like a parasite are wrecking. The Earth in fact is a hostile place that will kill you. Humans have made it more livable with each passing century. Never before in history have we been as destructive to our environment. But never before have we been better stewards as well. Economic growth and wealth generation is what keeps us safe and gives us the resources to aid in environmental protection. Impoverishment makes for terrible environmental stewardship.

[@michaelrch]

@@anthonymorris5084 The future is not going to be like the past. Some is live well now but we are obviously living on borrowed time. We are just starting to pay the real costs of all that growth and comfort. The systems we depend on are starting to collapse and once they are going, we won't be able to stop them. We are walking into ever thinner ice. If we take another step in the same direction, we will be crash through the ice and be done for good. We cannot rely on individual decisions to turn back. It has to be a huge collective decision to save ourselves. Otherwise the third or do if the population who think they can continue to free ride without consequences will take us all to destruction.

[@swarming1092]

@@anthonymorris5084 There's no evidence for your claim at all. In fact as economic growth has increased, so has fossil fuel emissions and climate change's impact.

[@anneshaughnessy2754]

I’m saddened by the fact that animal agriculture is currently getting away with murder, in every way possible. It’s just shocking really.

[@juskahusk2247]

And delicious.

[@jimwilson946]

Your idea is pie in the sky, getting rid of pastoral farming will not create more wildlife areas, it will create more housing estates. I've been a happy meat eater for 70 years and still enjoying it.

[@djtomoy]

Everything will be fine, chill out

[@daverich3352]

If the human population of the Earth was 50% what it is today would George be suggesting these ideas. If his ideas do work and we can support everyone, the population would grow again.. then what?

[@johnbehan1526]

Arguably if the world were significantly rewilded, it could be sustained. It also appears that human population is trending to a limit. This Malthusian argument always ends up in one place and it's creepy, so don't even go there. Simple fact is, as people get more resources and education, they have fewer children. World equality is not just a nice pipe dream, it's a necessary precursor to our survival as a species.

[@unfixablegop]

No honey, ok. But stopping big ag rent seeking is a bridge too far. :-)

[@DougGrinbergs]

Alas, poor host acoustics / audio 😕 George sounds professional👍

[@paulwwells]

Bloody poetry. I've been looking for a good reason to hate poetry for a long time.

[@richardallan2767]

Totally agree diet is one of the main things we need to do for short term slowing of the extinction event we are well in to. But have to say that any of the farming and eating practices we do would not be a problem if they were done at a much smaller scale. (well, we could do with them all being more compassionate too) It is a shame that bringing the topic of overall scale of human impacts always gets you framed as genocidal or a racist/classist malthusian, because i think without taking in to account what we are going to do, voluntarily, about the driving variable behind all other impact variables, is why we are heading for insanely horrific, involuntary consequences.

[@215Gallagher]

Breatharianism?

[@russtaylor2122]

Classic George. Perfectly reasonable and thoughtfully intelligent examination of our collective predicament. Unfortunately, as big agri/pharma/fossils/mining/logging have bought and paid for their politicians, combined with George's observation that best practice is the most inefficient use of resources, this means that nothing substantial will change and certainly not in a time scale to 'save the planet'...

[@hardystein114]

And there lies an almost insurmountable problem ....... The corrupt money always calls the shots. Just the way the world operates.

[@tuncalikutukcuogluen-aquas2893]

Good questions and good answers, though I don't agree with all the claims of Monbiot. But I need to read Regenesis first. Who is this Toly (farmer) Monbiot mentions? Does he have a website?

[@edwardtheodore1427]

Lets all stop eating, that should save everything who needs food?

[@i-am-vonnegut]

Obesity, cholesterol, heart disease, blood pressure, diabetes. All modern symptoms of over consumption and industrial food production. Poverty and extreme poverty of the many vs an obscene gain of wealth for the few. The picture of our potential downfall whilst we drag the most beautiful and varied flora and fauna this side of universe with us has never been clearer. How many of us do we think will accept a life less convenient? Then out of those people how many do you think will get past the first year? Will we do the right thing? Some will try, most probably even can't. Human history shows that change usually only comes on the back of disaster. And currently and almost inevitably this looks like the case again. Personall I wish we could legislate for, anyone caught in lobbying and or lying for an organisation with a proven vested interest or involved in proven discreditation for the purpose of political or financial gain, becoming a highly chargeable offence that results in asset and finacial stripping followed by forced environmental field labour. A kinda of suits in wellie boots punishment. After all it would constitute a crime against humanity and animal kind. Wishful thinking I know 🙄

[@LiamScanlan]

2x loud for her as for him. Had to keep changing the volume. Great content otherwise.

[@NewStatesman]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@robertallen591]

insect and single cell protienes grown in vats maybe the way forwarded, as is cold fusion, the trouble is we spend more on reaserching mobile phone ring tones, the big projects need state investmant, and we are becoming more and more individualistic, it insures we can only change through crisis, and so we are destined to eat each other,, your fighting the cassandra principle,

[@veganevolution]

If anyone is worried about iron, i just found out turmeric has huge amounts

[@Flobb1t]

No one is going to eat spoonfuls of turmeric. Stick to lentils, chickpeas, beans and green leafy vegetables.

[@veganevolution]

@@Flobb1t turmeric is one of, if not the most healthful spice since is had curcumin a potent antioxidant. It has 40 percent dv per tbsp.

[@veganevolution]

@@Flobb1t that is for folks who are anemic. Yes lentilsfy greens etc. Sure are adequate for most people

[@muiresuilgorm3452]

@@veganevolution what about children and menstruating people?

[@mythtree6348]

oh dear god :(

[@Areflection4]

God and there I thought I was helping by buying organic. you need to educate us a lot more! What is the solution - not hearing this...

[@user-nx6ji9tk8i]

So - why are fruit and veg not subsidised at the point of sale? Please - someone find the answers to that.. The savings should come (within time ) from reducing the costs of illhealth…… And Monbiot gave no considerations to Water…… and all the issues related to food production globally.

[@shinywarm6906]

he talks about water shortage as a key problem at length in the book

[@davidpalk5010]

Because it's all about the money. Meat is grain or soya industrially processed into an animal to add value. It's a business. More money is made from wasteful meat than efficient vegetable alternatives.

[@susiegreaves7283]

My point really is that he has far too big an influence on left green thought. Other testimony should be heard. But of course the BBC and the Guardian love him. That alone should tell you just how independent a voice he is. As for his latest fad( he had a passion for nuclear fusion for a qhile)

[@31Blaize]

Scientists who can't change their minds when additional facts are discovered are no scientists at all :)

[@helenamcginty4920]

I could go completely vegan but what happens to all the pastoralist cultures? Away from the western world there are people who rely completely on the pastoralist way of life. They are already some of our poorest. Do we just condemn them to death?

[@guapochino140]

Jeez, how much do you eat?! I am sure you turning vegan won't kill people.

[@shinywarm6906]

you don't seriously think you are supporting pastoralist economies by being a meat-eater do you? The opposite is the case. By using the agricultural land in the developed worlkd to grow highly inefficient meat, dairy, biofuels etc, we also appropriate land that could be used to support people in poor contries to supply animal feedstock, out-of season fruit and vegetables and so on.

[@mythtree6348]

i dont think you could .. it fails everyone ... unless they cheat regularly .

[@helenamcginty4920]

​@@guapochino140oh I have already moved over. But I note Mr Monbiot addressed my comment already when he said we cant just throw up our hands and say what about. But a lot of what I hear sounds like Britain, eg bring back forests, wetlands etc but then I see filming in semi desert former savannah in parts of Africa and wonder how the pastoralists there can be helped, not by imposition from well meaning environmentalists from outside but by the people themselves. Currently there seems to be a low level war going on with pastoralists encroaching on farmland and being repulsed with violence from both sides.

[@helenamcginty4920]

​@@shinywarm6906dont be silly. You know full well that I dont think that. It just seems that a lot of what is suggested relates to my native country of England. Scotland and Wales have slightly different problems. Eg. I gather that reforestation projects in Scotland need very expensive fencing to prevent the young trees being eaten to the ground by feral deer. But, unlike the old woman who swallowed a fly etc folk are understandably wary of reintroducing wolf packs to keep numbers down. Hunting is not capable of doing much in terms if numbers either from what I have read.

[@freddibnah1830]

All very good but it will never happen, take a look about.......

[@caesars7hills892]

It is ironic that this guy claims that eliminating farm subsidies would collapse animal ag, but he is pro government.

[@CORRIGEEN71]

George is right about a lot of things but he is completely wrong about this meat eating is essential for our health long term so their is no alternative we need meat grains make you fat raise your insulin level s

[@mythtree6348]

totally .. i used to be the vegan and he wasnt and i was so sick for decades .. it is a hellish diet . people cheat to even cope.

[@McRocking]

Haven't we been here before with Tofu? When food scientists come up with a "brilliant" new idea that uses technology to solve a problem, we usually end up with other unforeseen problems further down the line. Honestly, I'd rather eat crushed grubs and insects than some sort of laboratory-derived super-processed meat alternative.

[@ruebezahl_electronics]

Sorry, Tofu is not "super processed", it's barely cooked, shredded and pressed in forms soybeans. Any sausage or cheese is more processed than Tofu. And what unforeseen problems derived from the invention of Tofu? Apart from the fact that it is a millenia old invention...

[@McRocking]

@@ruebezahl_electronics I wasn't actually refering to Tofu when I mentioned super-processed, but Tofu was touted as a protein that "could feed the world". Of course it didn't because it's just sloppy, tasteless bean protein that's impossible to work with. Meat isn't just protein. Aside from the all of the different species and cuts that range from a 3-minute saute to a 3-hour-braise, there's also the ritual and cultural aspects. I assume that those who eat junk food wont care so long as it's cheap, but I don't see the majority of people giving up real meat, and I don't see the meat industry going down without one heck of a fight.

[@ruebezahl_electronics]

@@McRocking Tofu is not just protein, it also contains oil, micronutrient, some carbs. pretty much like meat. Now it is different from meat in taste and also in nutrition, but it is a popular food in Asia for thousands of years, and nobody sees it as a substitute for meat there. Now there is a lot of culture surrounding meat and animal products, cheese making, sausage making etc. But cultures changed over time, in fact how our food is produced now compared to 100 years ago is fundamentally different and that goes for animal products as well as for plant products, In my opinion the focus should not be on giving up meat, but the amounts humans consume it right now is unsustainable, simple like that. Apart from that most vegans i know are far from just eating fast food and not caring about taste. They also don't necessarily like tofu, there is lot of other nice stuff, Tempeh, chickpeas, lentils, pick your favourite :)

[@McRocking]

@@ruebezahl_electronics It would take a BRAVE person to ask my missus to give up her beloved pheasant, partridge, ostrich, rabbit, hare, pigeon, goose, trout, venison (and the list goes on), in favour of veg/pulse proteins. They have their place of course and we eat them daily, but they're no substitute for succulent flesh! :) But I do get the point, it would be a good idea to get The West off that processed junk meat that they're addicted to. It's wrecking the planet as well as their bodies, and many people consume far more of it than they need.

[@michaelrch]

@@McRocking As George said, while all meat is bad for the environment, the high quality organic stuff is the worst.

[@reinerwilhelms-tricarico344]

Since humans appeared on the planet there is no such thing as "environment". Nature created us, and we have changed nature as being part of nature. Pastoral landscapes with raising cattle, grains and rice farming, gardens and growing vegetables, raising chickens and using the forest for wood - all this is nature, inseparable from human nature. And yes, we have to take care of it and must be wise enough not to destroy it further. But what he wants to do is create an artificial "nature" for humans only, separate from the nature that we depend on. This is an awful proposal that would only introduce the most dystopian kind of factory farming ever, and nature would still be exploited to get the nutrients for his protein factories - that immediately remind of the movie Soylent Green. He may have a point if he wanted to build a natural environment on a different planet. Perhaps he should work for Elon Musk on terraforming Mars. I think he mostly talks sci-fi nonsense, and it appears that he really hates humanity, especially farmers. He is a product of the posh upper middle class who want to be extra green and virtuous. The hell with his b.s. Paul Kingsnorth may be right to mention Montbiot in his piece on Eco Fascism. See: unherd.com/2022/11/the-truth-about-eco-fascism/

[@jbagger331]

You're insane. This is Pol Pot levels of insanity.

[@mythtree6348]

i get your point :(

[@MelloSSaeed]

💚😊

[@reinerwilhelms-tricarico344]

Monbiot is even more wrong than everyone else.

[@matthewtrow5698]

A fascinating conversation. Preventing the powerful corporate/oligarchic interests from pursuing the idea of an entirely new food system - could it be counter productive? If they see their business model being disrupted, surely they will disrupt in turn, by spreading FUD. (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) - they are rather good at doing this. Is, in fact, turning these powerful forces toward a new form of revenue, that could avoid environmental catastrophe, the short term answer? To replace their profit (and power), with more environmentally friendly profit (and power), a better bet, given the very short time frame we have? It's a horrible situation - yet it is clear the sheer purchasing power of these forces can turn around our current system extremely rapidly. To both fight them AND, in a timely manner, fight against the absurdly strong tide of ecological destruction - how do you balance this? I'm sure George has an answer for this - and perhaps it is as he says, that farmers will lead the way - that they will buck the trend - that thousands of farmers when organised (which they really are), will force the hand of the huge corporates and in fact break those bonds. Farmers, being close to the land, are probably best placed to make these decisions. Disruption that favours the profit and clout that farmers could have, as opposed the current situation, with farmers going out of business, is surely a good way forward.

[@RichardTaylor-ex2rl]

This is the most sensible interview I have ever seen or heard. I have only commented twice before on KZbin. I have never really accepted the global warming argument of the greens. The climate is not understood well enough to say that human activity, to date, has had significant impact on the planet and I would not surprised if solar activity has a far greater affect. Charlie Munger says that he is not fully bought into the green argument for preserving the plants oil but he does believe that oil and gas are precious resources that need to be conserved. One of the major uses of fossil fuel is in agriculture. Modern food production is really just a way of converting energy from oil and gas (fertilisers, pesticide and farm machinery and transport) into food. If just say 80% of protein could be produced from microbial fermentation it would delay an emergency situation in the world food supply chain. The technology must as ,George states, remain out of the monopoly control of corporations.

[@paulslater9061]

It's him that's wrong about everything he a complete fruit loop

[@jhonkhan8153]

Shifting again

[@andrewolgado6018]

Soylent green anyone

[@paulslater9061]

No it's you that's wrong George it's a religion you're embarking on

[@tomjohn8733]

Weak patients laws and strong anti trusts, exactly right…

[@hughdennison3013]

I have enjoyed some of Georges' books, however he has lost me on this one. People enjoy eating meat. Make it a luxury. Promote high quality meat. In my mind we should transition to more efficient grazed meat like rabbit. He is currently 'fetishizing' biological organism production instead of remembering all the insects that small farm diversified manure promotes. Remember why Steve irwin was never vegetarian. Unfortunately if George was running the world I think we would all be starving as no one wants to eat lichen and bark like paleolithic man. Please explain to me why pasture fed domestic rabbit is 'un-economic' in his own words.

[@DarkDeepGreen]

That's the thing, people enjoy it. But just because most people enjoy something, does it make it right?

[@swarming1092]

I don't care whether people enjoy it. It's terrible for the environment and for the animals. We should ban it.

[@guapochino140]

Steve Irwin?

[@shinywarm6906]

I have read the book, so can paraphrase his argument against pasture fed meat. Fundamentally, it is grossly inefficient. One recent study found that if you shifted all US beef production to a pasture fed system, you'd have to increase the national herd by 30% and the land take would be quadrupled. And the US would still have to import most of its beef. In short, continuing current levels of meat consumption is grossly insustainable, however it is produced.

[@mythtree6348]

meat is not about 'enjoying' .. veganism destroys health .. ive never seen anyone cope long term unless they cheat, a lot.

[@misc_channel]

This man is unhinged

[@richardewbank9260]

Alot of unchallenged errors in this interview - firstly misrepresenting livestock agriculture - of the 28% of global land used for grazing, most (25% of land) is for extensive pastoralism in Africa, upland areas of Latin America, etc. This practice is not subsidised and essentially operates on wild landscapes not suitable for crop production, indeed pastoralists have often enhanced wildlife through their range management practices - indigenous people like pastoralists around the world now manage 80% of the planet’s biodiversity. This way of life sustains 200 million of some of the world’s poorest people, whose carbon footprint is tiny. Precision fermentation is not new - has been used for years to produce pharmaceuticals and the big corporates are all over it, Cargill, ADM, etc. already buying up start-ups and expanding into food PF production. Farmers in the UK will follow economic signals if not growing livestock - housing, caravan/glamping parks, golf courses, etc. so mostly not rewilding, unless a large land nationalisation programme is implemented (politically non-viable). Given the massive impact of pesticides on wild bee/flying insect populations, restoring the balance through beekeeping is not damaging but providing a valuable bridge to a food system entirely (so crops and not just livestock) transformed through climate resilient agroecology, which currently gets only 5% of the subsidies mentioned and restores food-critical ecosystem services like diversities of pollinators, and a mainly plant-based but healthier diet (as already practiced across developing countries - people in developed countries eat 4x as much meat and fish) uncontaminated by a lethal cocktail of agrochemical residues, replacing a system degrading soils, water and increasing pandemic risks through factory farming

[@ruppollock4392]

Well said .

[@hughdennison3013]

Why do 0.3% have the say George? Well.... because you can't feed yourselves. That's why.

[@wolfgangrauh3210]

I have just learned that Buffalo Bill was one of the greatest Environmentalists.

[@timcomley3241]

Does he cry on this episode

[@richardt6347]

wtf is this guy on about, u can get protein and fat and carb from plants and plenty of it.

[@davidtempleman2855]

George talks about the numbers not adding up, but clearly cherry picks to back up his vegan ideology. He goes as far to say conventional poultry is less destructive than grass fed beef. I person really need to be blinded by an ideology to arrive at such a point. I would love to better understand what materials he derives his “facts” from.

[@FullOfSpuds]

conventional poultry requires less land and water, its simple. The idea that grass fed beef is better because its on "natural" pasture is a myth: the land used to graze is almost always land which if left alone would host a variety of other habitats, from wetlands to shrub to forest. Convincing people that rolling fields of inch high grass are a natural habitat is a fantastic con by the livestock industry

[@merrymeadowshomestead2522]

Sheep graze land that is often not usable for anything else. Grass is a massive Carbon sink. George appears to be missing these points out. Without grazing rumenants desertification would happen much faster. Check out the work of Allan Savory who is far more qualified and knowledgeable on the subject of farming than George. I will be reading Regenasis, but it's going take alot to convince me. Grasslands are a very important habitat for many species of wildlife, without them we Will create deserts faster. George has missed this entirely it seems.

[@Flobb1t]

The scientific fraud of Allan Savory's regenerative grazing, is a scientifically well debunked myth. Read "Grazed & confused" as a starting point. There are dozens of studies from Harvard, Oxford among many that back a shift to plant based society.

[@swarming1092]

Blinded by ideology, or following the science located in the literally dozens of scientific papers he cites in the book? Ever wonder whether you're the one blinded by ideology? You just baselessly accuse him of cherry-picking; so prove it, David. What a lazy criticism.

[@michaelrch]

He derives his facts from the mountains of science that has been done of food system sustainability in the last couple of decades. His book has citations throughout.

[@thankyoutenten]

Poor old George, he's wasted months writing this book given that it's based on the false premise buried in the question he's trying to answer, which is that of how to feed the world without devouring the planet. Presumably the world he's referring to constitutes the size of the human population that currently exists. That immediately raises the question as to whether that size is a natural phenomenon or just a consequence of our pathological way of life that we call capitalism, which is essentially a system of coercion. Hence it's pathological. So in trying to preserve that population, George is effectively doing what our NHS does, which is to treat symptoms rather than the causes of those symptoms. Hence the latter's overriding concern can be summed up as trying to stop people from dying, which, of course, is what's responsible for many of the problems that now overwhelm it. (In reality, it should be called the NRS - the National Rescue Service - rather than a National Health Service, as it has nothing to do with health.) Suffice it to say, George's book falls into the usual trap of advocating more technological "advances" to treat the consequences of the technological "advances" we've already utilised in order to try and treat the symptoms of our pathological way of life. The effect of that is that it just compounds the problem rather than removes it. Thus there's no point in reading the book.

[@lukerobinson3983]

Totally nailed it the ideas completely overlook the cause and honestly speaking the solutions suggested sound like a potential catalyst for more severe problems if they are followed. Ban factory farming meat and plants and rethink the food system being run for profit above all else.

[@shinywarm6906]

So you claim to know what the book says, but then admit you haven't read it, and will not read it. How silly. Monbiot is anti-capitalist, but rather than superficial and banal slogans, he's come up with a long list of practical strategies precisely to undermine the pathological system that you complain about, and replace it with something transformative.

[@shinywarm6906]

@@lukerobinson3983 Monbiot suggests each of the things you say. The difference is that he has done the research and the thinking to figure out how it could be done.

[@lukerobinson3983]

@@shinywarm6906 not my first day at school either, I’ve been in the food sector for 25 years. I am very familiar with Monbiot and not against his ideas across the board but in this case I do not believe the suggested solutions here or in the book are conducive to the right kind of change. Also as someone who has spent time researching he could have offered better solutions by consulting with key industry figures rather than pushing ideas which firmly keep production within the current faulty status quo.

[@shinywarm6906]

@@lukerobinson3983 which are the solutions you would promote?

[@brianferguson7840]

I am a "second step" vegetarian. I only ever eat animals which eat vegetables.

[@hughdennison3013]

If this is the rhetoric start accepting soilent green. Im ashamed that he's lost it IMO.