Georges Bataille : Literature and Evil

The only TV interview that exists with Georges Bataille (1958). About his book Literature And Evil. Interviewer: Pierre Dumayet. Translation: Vidar Vikingsson.

[@ЕржанНасанов]

what a soft spoken man, didn't expect him so

[@123okpaul456]

Here's a transcript of the English subtitles: Interviewer: First I want to ask you about the name of this book. What evil are you talking about? Bataille: I think there are two opposite kinds of evil. The first one is related to the necessity of human activity going well and having the desired results, and the other consists of deliberately violating some fundamental taboos like, for example, the taboo against murder or against some sexual possibilities. Interviewer: As in do evil and act evil. Bataille: Yes. Interviewer: Does the name of this book indicate that evil and literature are inseparable? Bataille: Yes, I think so. Maybe it’s not very clear at first, but to me it seems that if literature stays away from evil, it rapidly becomes boring. This might seem surprising. Nevertheless, I think that soon it becomes clear that literature has to deal with anguish and that anguish is based on something that is going the wrong way, something that no doubt will turn into something very evil. When you make the reader see this or, at least, put him in front of the possibility of a story with an evil ending for the characters he’s concerned about (now I’m simplifying what novels are about), when the reader is in that unpleasant situation the result is a tension which makes literature non boring. Interviewer: So the writers, any good writer, is guilty of something when writing? Bataille: Most writers are not aware of that, but I think there is a profound culpability. Writing is the opposite of working. This may not sound logical, but still, all the amusing books are efforts that went against real work. Interviewer: Could you name one or two writers who felt guilty of writing, who thought they were criminals because they were writers? Bataille: There are two whom I wrote about in my book who are exemplary in that regard. They are Baudelaire and Kafka. Both of them knew that they were on the side of evil, and consequently that they were guilty. With Baudelaire, it’s clear by the fact that he chose the title “Flowers of Evil” for his most intimate writings, and with Kafka, it’s even more clear. He thought that when writing he went against the wishes of his family and therefore he put himself in a guilty position. It’s a fact that his family let him know that it was evil to spend his time writing, that the right thing to do in life was to devote himself to commercial activities, and if you did something else you were doing something evil. Interviewer: But if being a writer is being guilty of something then for Kafka or Baudelaire, being a writer is also not being very responsible. That was the opinion of their families. This feeling of guilt is for them something childish. Do you think that Baudelaire and Kafka felt guilty of being childish when writing? Bataille: I think it’s very clear, they even say so. They felt that they were in the same situation as a child before his parents: A child who’s been naughty and who consequently has a guilty conscience because he thinks of his beloved parents who are always telling him what not to do, that it was an evil thing to do in the strongest sense of the word. Interviewer: But if literature is childish, if writers are guilty of childishness when writing, does that also mean that literature is childishness? Bataille: I think there is something essentially infantile in literature. It may seem incompatible with the admiration that one has for literature and which I share. But I believe it’s a profound and fundamental truth that you can’t really understand what literature means if you don’t approach it from the child’s point of view, which is not to say from a lower perspective. Interviewer: You wrote a book on eroticism. Do you think that eroticism in literature is infantile? Bataille: I’m not sure if literature differs from eroticism in that respect, but I think it’s very important to realize the infantile character of eroticism in general. To feel eroticism is to be fascinated like a child who wants to take part in a forbidden game, and a man fascinated by eroticism is like a child before his parents. He’s afraid of what might happen to him, and he never stops until he has a reason to be afraid. It’s not enough for him to only do what normal adults content themselves with. He has to become scared. He has to find himself in the same situation as when he was a child and constantly afraid of being scolded and even punished in an unbearable way. Interviewer: Maybe you and I have given the impression that you were condemning this childishness. But in fact, it’s time to go back to the title of your book: “Literature and Evil”. You are not condemning neither literature nor evil. Could you tell us more about the ideas in the book? Bataille: It certainly is a warning. It says there is danger, but, maybe, once you realize the danger, you have good reasons for confronting that danger. I think it’s important for us to confront the danger that is literature. I think it is a very great and real danger, but that you are not a man if you do not confront that danger. I think that in literature we can see the human perspective in its entirety, because literature doesn’t permit us to live without seeing human nature under its most violent aspect. You only have to think of the tragedies, Shakespeare - there are lots of examples of the same genre. And finally, it’s literature that makes it possible for us to perceive the worst and learn how to confront it, how to overcome it. In short, a player finds in the game the force to overcome what the game contains of horror.

[@estebanb7166]

Thank you!

[@maazali8889]

Bataille is so eloquent. The ideas and the language he expresses them in are so clear.

[@francoisedandre3644]

L'interrogation était certaine.

[@niasnelling7546]

i'm in love with this man

[@AleksandarBloom]

Simplicity of Gallimard covers is one of the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

[@etreoreste5775]

I couldn't agree more. And that's the very French perversity I enjoy

[@joejs7659]

Exactly... A lost art... everything nowadays looks like a cover to a teen romance flick. The title, the author, on some decent paper... no more is needed... no more is wanted ! I like the NRF, Gallimard, Denoël - whom, Denoël, had a fascinating story, and a dramatic demise, which is worth looking up - style of printing as well.

[@paulmaartin]

@@joejs7659 collection blanche still exist and pocket editions haven't changed but it's true that English books can be eyesore on a bookself

[@joshperry6700]

I'm reminded of the Arcade editions of Cioran. Elegant.

[@U2BE79]

The unbearable horror of existence...brought me here.

[@m.wildanmubarok3478]

The unbearable horror of existence? Is it a book or something?

Wasn’t it the longing for breaking free from the shackles of servitude and the torture of utilitarianism

[@melocomanTV]

Well.... uh you probably shouldn't turn to evil

[@fusox]

such a wonderful and creative mind!

[@gallowglass719]

Georges Bataille brought me here but I love DSO.

[@keyboardcorrector2340]

Me as well.

[@rustymandude]

Reading Georges Bataille brought me to this video, which brought me to Deathspell Omega. The circle is complete.

[@MontyCantsin5]

I would be grateful if someone could expand slightly upon what Bataille means when he says that one form of evil relates to '...the necessity of human activity going well and having the desired results.'

[@rasmusdj3771]

Monty Cantsin omelets cost eggs

[@georgesbataille946]

+RasmusDJ What do you mean?

[@MontyCantsin5]

Georges Bataille: As I understood it; if one wants something good or positive to occur, it must necessarily be at the cost of another thing being harmed/destroyed.

[@db1958]

+Monty Cantsin - I think he is speaking more along the lines of Arendt's 'The Banality of Evil'

[@MontyCantsin5]

db1958: Do you think? That view may fit with Bataille's statement, but I'll need to think about it more.

[@Ada1302]

Bataille brought me to Deathspell Omega.

[@agentdoodo299]

Just the opposite for me

[@Hrvo182]

Yes, the opposite for me as well, but I am grateful nonetheless.

[@iCirith]

same haha

[@civilwar9637]

I fucking love Bataille so much

[@rocketboii9400]

It's so funny, my mom is an incredibly squeamish person who hates any depictions of violence but I got her hooked on reading the beginning of The Accursed Share and she thinks that Bataille is so funny

[@alexhiller3088]

deleuze, guattari & de beauvoir brought me here

[@irishecker]

thanks for uploading and translating!

[@joeldixton5627]

Of Montreal brought me here

[@sokar9438]

Tack mannen

[@伯乐陶二郎]

Evil means not what we used in respect of morality-we always do and the evil is always condemned by it no matter what definition you give to it, actually we'd perceive some aspects or Things are evil, at the same time we would see in them something too dim, too complicate to be accepted as knowledge, or in other words to be understood. What Bataille, and those writers who was related to or even inspired him ( the number is vast ), dealt not with the translating of evil to good, non-knowledgable to knowledgeable and knowledge, but the peering into the non-knowledgable and their world, to see them as a part of human nature not from the perspective provided from outside but only themselves. Battaile's idea, his path, is not something he invented nor before him never existed, he was only a symbolic figure of a once-existed intensive intelligent movement, and that's not to say he was inferior to what today's authors' opinion of him. He was, and as a dead still is a powerful thinker, and you have to be in the world of literature to recognize him and his thoughts. To say his mind was creative means nothing, for such kind of opinion is empty; to see his opinion as arbitrary, that is only because he was a writer who wrote about night when most of the people live in daylight. If you could truly understand his work, you will find his subject is not unnatural.

[@badgermeat]

Źzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@wp6007]

Deathspell Omega

[@DarkAngelEU]

This reminds me of some of my private adventures. Never thought that I secretly wanted to be punished, but when I'm reminded of it it's not even that much of a secret lol

[@indolestic_rhoze]

amazing

[@insertmemorableusernameher6795]

This is just like gorbinos quest. This is the gorbinos quest of life

[@lightgrey5365]

i feel this so much.

[@gerardlabeouf6075]

The goaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[@siatulaga6324]

wow i never thought of it in this kind of way though (: genius

[@emanuelacomerio5334]

Intendo cagarci su tutta la settimana e soprattutto alla fine. Ho tanto atteso quel quadro tempo perché prima o poi avrebbero osato presentarsi alla Luce, che sono io. Li aspettavo per cagarci su anche alla fine. E tra l'altro l'avevo detto. E' no.

[@LeCoolCroco]

The death of the author?

[@francoisedandre3644]

Dans notre temps actuel, il n'y a pas ce langage vrai concernant la littérature. C'est à la casse maintenant. Aujourd'hui, il n'y a plus que des bibelots à part les exceptions de hautes lignées d'écrivains.

[@ericpatterson4248]

"A child's point of view. . ."

[@inacazan3851]

je t`aime george bataille - tu m`as chauffe l`adolescence :)))))

[@quangloc97]

He predicted "drama queen".

[@MagnumInnominandum]

I was intrigued by a lover of Bataille works to search out this gentleman. He has discredited himself for me in the first 4 minutes.

[@charlesguez4632]

At his time he was MAJOR IN LIT. ANDRÉ MAUROIS, VERY DIFFERENT HOWEVER HE TALKED ABOUT BATAILLE. FUCK BAUDELAIRE AND KAFKA!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@@

[@marieconstant6452]

QUI CE RESSEMBLE CA SEMBLE .....

[@R4lee444]

I love my parents, my wife, and my children. I even enjoy working with my peers at my job. What is the value that is generated by Bataille's work towards humanity and community and family and self?

[@newagetapes]

Fuck off.

[@keyboardcorrector2340]

Because he sees more through the veil than most other so-called "thinkers."

[@lightgrey5365]

He set a lot of people free.

[@locksh]

Bataille actively fought fascism his entire life. I hope your comment isn't cynical. He also actively sought to map human behavior in his very complex works, works that influenced some of the greatest thinkers that came after him. So even if he didn't deal directly with such themes his work actively aimed towards a better understanding of how our society functions and how to better it.

[@themanwithnonamecalled9667]

Literature is childish?

[@heyguysinternet]

It’s make-believe.

[@AR-ch5ix]

Look at his eyes. That is all you need to see in this video.

[@zuckeraffen7803]

Please elaborate on that

[@aliglimmer6071]

@@zuckeraffen7803 i think he's either referring to his eyes of dead man or to his first entitled book "the story of the eye."

[@DarkAngelEU]

He looks somewhat sad, but when he talks about looking at the world and literature from a child's perspective, he looks very insecure. Almost like he too is afraid of literature, and feels guilt for being a writer.

[@gulinborsti]

@@zuckeraffen7803 oh shut up please, kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2PNZmpun7l1ebs

[@locksh]

@@zuckeraffen7803 The man suffered from unbearable mental anguish thorough his entire life. This is probably the only video document of Bataille speaking, and it is not a coincidence you can really see the pain in his eyes.

[@prettyoddartofvolatile]

I can't believe I came here from a fucking schizo game

[@wickedarctiinae4132]

Could you tell the game's name?

[@prettyoddartofvolatile]

@@wickedarctiinae4132 Cruelty Squad

[@chasesaladino6669]

I never realized how Freudian or Lacanian Bataille seems to be, or at least resonate with some of their ideas.

[@goodtitle686]

I am trying to get to Lacan, and I am alredy read in Bataille and Freud. Could you possible explain how Bataille seems "Lacanian"? I would be really thankful!

[@wickedarctiinae4132]

@@goodtitle686 A tangent thought: Zizek understood Hegel through Lacan, and Bataille did some critique (I believe) to Hegel.

[@moytta122]

bataille is freudian in the sense of utilizing the concepts of unconcious, drive and libidinal flows. Bataille, hoewever, thinks of these concepts as impersonal. He also rejects Freuds conception of desire and the oedipus complex. I havent read much Lacan but from what i know of him its not very similar to Bataille.

[@nihilkatedra5452]

deathspell omega brought me here

[@paulavenell4754]

The Grand Executor same haha

[@charlesguez4632]

I HAVE MANY BOOKS OF GEORGES BATAILLE. YOU COULD TAKE THEM.

[@markr4619]

can i actually have them

[@VVeltanschauung187]

This is raw fatherly advice.

[@Kamozeloraoz]

Deathspell Omgea brought me to Bataille.

[@emanuelacomerio5334]

Chi spera, prima o poi, di avere la Luce del giorno secondo me deve imparare a perdere anche la speranza. Si sa che la Luce getta la merda propria e altrui nel wc.

[@wallijacanero1532]

hai letto il mito di sisifo di Camus?

[@emanuelacomerio5334]

@@wallijacanero1532 no. Peró ho letto il gioco di Ripley della Allende. Vedrai che, tutto giocato, sui moderny play games sostitutivi dei vecchi 'miti', risulta piú moderno.

[@tysontillotson2275]

Vastum brought me here

[@ALostMap]

What does any of this actually mean? Writing being evil? Activities not related to commercial work being evil?

[@DiamorphineDeath]

What he’s saying if you listen to him and understand instead of look for snarky critical points, is that aspects of creation, in the form of Kafka and Baudelaire, can be based in guilt for an outside system of morality that imposes itself upon the author. In both these cases, Bataille says that they considered their own act of writing evil due to the morality of their family expressing it as such, and they writing taking on a sense of guilt they themselves held by partaking in the act itself. To their family’s, writing was evil as it was leisure, or viewed as leisure, and not a “productive” act in the way that commercial work would be. You could say this was a Protestant morality of a consistent need to always be productive, and non-productivity as being “evil;” hence the expression idle hands being the devil’s tools. Having a nietzschen conception of morality, and looking at the idea of evil as expressed in literature, and giving it its actual worth. A work with no evil is not a work of literature, as where does conflict stem from.

[@marieconstant6452]

TU A GAGNER LA BATTAILLE

[@zackarymckay1375]

What is death spell omega

[@harmaini8009]

An extreme band from french, mostly their lyrics was highly influenced by the works of bataille.

[@junk206]

He is right. It ties together at the end.

[@Robinzorz]

This is great, thank you!

[@CatTrance]

Evil is what thickens the plot.

[@yashuarazohr]

Evil is that which degrades the soul. Don't have to be a genius to figure that out. A troubled soul indeed. May God have mercy upon him.

[@mermaid95x]

Not everyone is religious..