Germs, Genocide and America's Indigenous Peoples

Stony Brook University professor and Gardiner Chair in American History Paul Kelton discusses how disease-induced deaths among America's indigenous peoples happened not as a result of germs operating on their own against passive Natives but instead as a result of the larger process of colonialism that made Natives vulnerable, one in which disease intersected with violence to escalate mortality and to curtail population recovery. Part of Native American History Month.

[@JoseMartinez-ky6ww]

Grown man in tears! I'm Mexican Irish American. Great information! Thank you!

[@unicron24]

not just our native peoples, but almost wiped out the bison, and many other wildlife and animals.

[@sylverrain4620]

It was intentionally done to wiped the food source of the Natives living on the plains.

[@garyclothier9914]

@@sylverrain4620 LOL

[@Cobbido]

@@sylverrain4620 Source?

[@Mr._Moderate]

@@Cobbido Manifest Destiny 👍

[@brittanyhayes1043]

@Mr._Moderate based Manifest Destiny 👍🏻

[@designthinkingwithgian]

and the Greed continues to this day..

[@baruasafi5880]

Neither is Russia and China an enemy. The spiritual diseases eating into the Western civilization cannot be cured by normal medicine except by divine intervention. The western civilization is coming to its sunset but unfortunately it will go down with billions of humanity. WW1 and WW2 all started in Europe and so will WW3. Where is humanity being led? From colonialism, slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism and above all genocides, Western civilization is toxic to humanity but also God. Bye bye Europe and western civilization in general.

[@chenydeniz3594]

To this day 😥 bye bye

[@ongchinlam3192]

UN must charge USA. Now.

[@melissafreeman7416]

That’s what I’ve been saying too. Where are they all of a sudden? Doing what all others do... turning a bling eye. SMH.

[@brittanyhayes1043]

No they didn't do genocide. Real genocide is the Holocust and Armenian and Assyrian genocide. Native Americans manky died by diease. That's not genocide.

[@99jaa]

After watching this great and well researched lecture, it's kind of sick to still see people in the comments perverting or completely ignoring what he actually said. This is a complex issue and it's completely unethical to try to place all the blame on any one person, side, or specific incident(s). Hes reading original source material from both sides of the argument and criticizing and supporting whichever is fair. Jesus christ people, this is an impressive attempt at unbiased lecturing, just try to learn something instead of politicizing it.

[@razarok3584]

Although the blanket thing is bullshit

[@99jaa]

@@razarok3584 maybe. I haven't done much research on it but if I remember correctly there's original information from both sides of that argument which I think the guy in this lecture goes over. Idk I watched this months ago

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Blame on any one side? Lol.

[@99jaa]

@@DrJavadTHashmi thats what i said, good job

[@charlessnortley4519]

@@razarok3584 it isnt.

[@alejandrollamas692]

American genocide also occurred in the Philippines. 250,000 men, women and children killed during the Spanish American War which lead to the Philippino American War.

[@mixtecjaguar9824]

American genocide?

[@alejandrollamas692]

@@mixtecjaguar9824 Look up Philippino American War

[@ongchinlam3192]

WHO should send a teams to investigate USA Fort Detrick Lab. Unit 731

[@njandrews4105]

This history needs to be taught at a public school level from K to 12 and not just the college and university level as much disinformation is out there regarding this subject

[@canadiannuclearman]

It was all about land. The royal proclimation of 1763 was the main cause for decloration of independence in 1776. The idea of "taxation without representation" is in most part BS. Here in Canada we call in the Royal Proclimation of 1763. In the USA you call it a proclimation line. A line that can not be crossed because the King said it was indian land. It was this that caused the American revolution. Greed greed. All the wealth east of the P line where by land owners. If your a poor farmer working someones elses land resentment soon set it. Sitting on the east side not to cross this line because of some fucking King on the other side of the ocean. In England France Germany Spain wealth came from the land. There were no Bill Gates or Warren Buffets at the time, money from software or hedge fonds did not exist. It was only latter with oil Rockafeller or steel Carnagy and Rail roads money was made in a non land ownership way but that would come only in the 1800's. So in short the though was move west cross the proclimation line get rich and if you see an indian you kill him. Greed greed.

[@manuelserrano7711]

Its all about personal interest

[@eeeoffical]

taxation without representation is still a big part and also your saying that as a Canadian which is wild.

[@rafaeljimeno3863]

Uh...how can he say that a book titled "Guns, Germs, and Steel" posits disease alone was the culprit? I would ask if he's read the book recently, but how about the title? He read the title, right?

[@TDHDN]

He’s just saying that Jared Diamond far overstated disease in a factor in the population collapse of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas.

[@geopapas7250]

Very informative, thank you. Just fyi, throat mics and water sipping --> nasty bedfellows

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Yes I couldn’t stand the gulping noises even though it’s a great lecture.

[@urfitahir]

Thank you, very informative.

[@cheyennemaxwell4697]

Blankets for the dead. Choctaw Cherokee creek chickassw sre all part of the 5 nations, they sll walked the trail of tears

[@dennisconroy3459]

Their has been a report put out on you tube, that 100 million people had been slaughtered at gun point, after the slaughtering episodes, a thanks giving celebrations took place.

[@njandrews4105]

All you have to do is look at places today that have a much greater indigenous population but still have a history of diseases that wiped out more than 50% of their population.. The only thing that can explain this is a lack of a genocide in these respective regions comparative to those with a 0.1% indigenous population per capita nowhere in Canada falls under 3% which has to do with Canada‘s different policies regarding indigenous peoples

[@joanhuffman2166]

Mexico has the most indigenous Americans and the most mixed indigenous/European/African/East Asian. Other countries in the old Spanish empire also have many more indigenous Americans than the old English empire in the Americas. Strange to think that conquest, subjugation, forced conversion, and reducing the locals to serfs would save the most people. At least two areas were witnessed to have large indigenous populations by the earliest Spanish explorers (the southern US and the Amazon). The next time Europeans went through the areas, they were nearly empty.

[@neverendingjourneystilllea5271]

Thanks

[@manuelserrano7711]

Could we change the sheets for vaccines?

[@tomwashington3629]

Nuff Gratitude Love and Raspect

[@ivanlaplante]

14:38 Columbus writings of his first and second expedition to the Americas shows clear evidences of said epidemics, and there are also evidences supporting this in ice-core CO2 data. Fairly recent studies have drawn links between the Great Dying and the Little Ice Age.

[@ivanlaplante]

It doesn't necessarily invalidate the theory of voluntary spread of such diseases, but i consider questionning the whole epidemics bad faith.

[@ivanlaplante]

And i say that as someone who still believe there are strong evidences supporting claims of genocidal will nonetheless.

[@lane99]

No. It was germs acting on their own. And this talk was are unadulterated and insidious, yes, claptrap.

[@joanhuffman2166]

When someone tells me that Europeans gained the Americas because they were the bravest, most virtuous, most technologically advanced, I know I'm being given a lot of propaganda. When someone tells me that Europeans won the Americas by being meaner, more viscious than anyone else, then too, I know I'm being given a lot of propaganda. If someone says Europeans are the best, or the worst it's the same erroneous story. I still believe that diseases made the critical difference, because the Americas are filled with European descendants and Africans but the same Europeans were not able to take over in Africa, South Asia nor East Asia. Europeans were not more or less best/worst in the Americas than they were in Africa or Asia. But in Africa, East Asia, or South Asia the diseases killed Europeans more than the inhabitants.

[@brittanyhayes1043]

Well they did win the West. If that propganda to you and nit the truth maybe you are not smart enough to see THAT THAT IS THE TRUTH!

[@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904]

Americas are filled with European descendants and Africans…as in the Africans that were enslaved… taken from Africa?

[@vedinthorn]

For some reason saying that you can blame both diseases and genocide without contradiction goes against community guidelines...on a video that discusses exactly that. Clown world.

[@vedinthorn]

The bigger question is which played the larger role. It was almost certainly the accidental spread of disease that played the biggest role of all by the numbers. That doesn't excuse any purposeful wrongdoing, though.

[@marvintalbot6536]

For all the children may God bless. #JustinTrudeau while you help cover up Canadian Government genocide would you answer to your crime? Why #JustinTrudeau are you not on trial again in Supreme Court of Canada for your personal involvement in the Honey and Barry Goldmans murders? The problem is those of you who stand for murder and do not speak up. You are as guilty as he is. You can't watch or know about a crime and say nothing... That make you an accessory after the fact!!!

[@njandrews4105]

Nowhere in Canada does the indigenous population fall under 3% this man in the United States at an American university talking to Americans is referring to an area with a 0.1 indigenous population due to more than cultural genocide or disease.. I’m no fan of Justin Trudeau but it’s him and his government that accepted the truth and reconciliation commission created by indigenous folks he is by no means perfect but doesn’t come close to early American colonists on the east coast in the 16th and 17th centuries

[@weatherphobia]

This guy is DESPERATE to prove tainted smallpox blanket theory.

[@faithalonekjv5123]

You are desperate to ignore facts that show how depraved white Supremacist are through history and to date.

[@reesehendricksen1871]

@@faithalonekjv5123 oh American history is full of awful shit, like the Trail of Tears, which was only passed by two votes. Though the germ blankets is crap, Germ Theory wasn’t invented until the late 19th century, much later than the blankets. There wasn’t enough coordinated effort nor belief to make this a genuine issue, rather this was a singular isolated case of one Colonel who was an ass, though most of them were. Rather germs spread naturally through trade rather then as a concentrated effort, its the same case with the Inca collapse.

[@jordanjohari1872]

Genocide? No GenociciDAL? Way

[@zanthornton]

Clarification pls. Do you mean its still continues? I'd agree

[@abubatatu3241]

Carlisle 13th July 1763 Sir-- I had the 11th your Excellency's Letter of the 2d. by Capt Grant, and the same Day that of the 7th. by Express -- I shall remain at F. Pitt to forward the Troops & Shipwrights to Pressqu'Isle, and the Services that may be required on Communication, and Readiness for going down the River when I receive your Orders. I am averse to start Difficulties so long as I can see how to get clear of them but being, for the present, totally disappointed in the Assistance I expected by the extraordinary Votes of the Assembly of Pennsylvania I must represent to you that I think it equally precarious to leave F. Pitt & its Communication too thinly guarded, or to weaken Major Campbell's Detatchment, & would be obliged to you if you would order the inclosed Return to be filled as you would have the Troops disposed: Upon which I shall make the following Remarks - There being considerable Magazines of Stores at Ligonier, Bedford & Cumberland & no Dependence to be had on the Inhabits. who will all desert those Posts, each cannot have less than thirty Men 2d. The Expense of our carriages is a sufficient Reason to hasten our March, but I cannot expect to carry the Waggons from hence to F. Pitt /200 Miles/ in much less than twenty Days on Acct. of the Mountains & bad Roads: And Major Campbell will be ten Days from F. Pitt to Presqu’Isle; where Capt. Loring will no Doubt have Provisions, Tools & Naval Stores in readiness as nothing can be carried this Way. The few Horses necessary to carry Flour, Tents & the little Baggage of the Officers to Presqu’Isle will not return for want of an Escort & will be lost. Would you have any of our Artillery Officers to proceed to Presqu’Isle? The Loss of that Post is unaccountable, as I had made it impregnable without Cannon & Mr. Christie must have lost his Senses when he gave it up, as he could not be in Want of Ammunition and Provisions & might be sure of a speedy Relief -- However Blockhouses being exposed to be set on Fire, if they were now to be build with Bricks & covered with Tiles they would stand all Chances: Bricks can be made at Presqu’Isle, but Lime must be sent from Niagara -- 1st. The Extensive & open Works of F. Pitt require more Men than would otherwise be necessary against an Enemy who has no Chance but by Surprise - The Distance from F. Pitt to Presqu’Isle is 148 miles, thro’ a narrow crooked Path, difficult Creeks, & several long Defiles: the Mingoes & Delawares who live in that Part of the Country may consist of 4 or 500 Men, exclusive of the Shawanese or western Indians who may accidentally be among them: And a Body of Troops must be repectable to force all Opposition they may have to encounter that Way - the Women, Children & all useless Hands may be escorted down with the Waggons & Packhorses, by the Militia, who will quit F. Pitt, & the Soldiers sent to reinforce Bedford & Cumberland - Major Campbell with the Remains of the two Regts. arrived here only the 10th. his Men being greatly fatigued -- Two Waggons will at last be here to Morrow & we shall march the 15th. having sent the Remains of the two first Companies to Bedford, & the 3d. To F. Loudoun as a Guard to our Cattle & Horses - I shall make the necessary Enquiry concerning the Effects belonging to the late Colonel Clapham & acquaint you of my Success - No Traders or Goods shall be permitted to pass this Way till you give further Orders and we shall have no Difficulty to prevent it: Fear being sufficient to keep them at Home - The Savages have begun to kill on the upper Part of Patowmack, & within two Days have murdered or wounded upwards of 30 People from 40 to within 16 Miles of this Town which is suddenly become the Frontier: all the inhabitants to the westward having abandoned this Plantations, with their Harvest, Cattle Horses & every thing they had - The Situation of this County is deplorable, the Infatuation of the Government in taking the most dilatery & ineffectual Measures for their Protection highly blamable - They have not paid the least Regard to the Plan I proposed to them -- They have not paid the least Regard to the Plan I proposed to them on my arrival here, I will lose this & York counties if the Savages push their Attacks - As the Communication will be infested I beg you will send me Duplicates of your orders, which Sr. J. St. Clair, who remains here will forward by different Expresses & on different Days I have the Honor to be &c HENRY BOUQUET P.S. I will try to inocculate the ____ with Some Blankets that may fall in their Hands, and take Care not to get the disease myself. As it is pity to expose good men against them I wish we would make use of the Spanish Method to hunt them with English Dogs, supported by Rangers and Some Light Horse, who would I think effectualy extirpate or remove that Vermin.

[@TheSapphireLeo]

@@zanthornton This and now, as we are still a threat to colonialism

[@escherichanja8522]

We live in a world, where people trust this kind of bullshit as if it´s the true, so it´s easy to imagine why true storys are rare to find: " you are so funny. I'm not the one calling people "freak" and "idiot"! And no I'm not comfortable at all. Your words hurt quite a bit! I'm not a victim of a horrible person, I'm a victim of and emotionally immature person who has to belittle and dehumanize people make themselves feel better. None of my comments are invalidating, insulting, or bullying of any sort. All of yours are. I understand I'm not doing Grey Rock properly because you're still enticing emotions, but that's exactly what your comments are designed to do, so that you can get the emotional reaction for Supply. I hope it makes you feel so much better because it makes me feel like total crap. Is that enough of an emotional reaction for you???? "

[@njandrews4105]

Sorry but the indigenous Holocaust was real.. and is reflected as factual by other areas having a similar history with disease but not genocide and there being an exponentially larger indigenous population like the vast majority of Canada for example

[@escherichanja8522]

@@njandrews4105 I guess reading is not your strong quality, I know the reality of indegous, so go somewhere else and act as if you know horror and nobody else.

[@njandrews4105]

@@escherichanja8522 you seem to be in disbelief of the information presented in in the lecture ?.. is this true or no ?

[@escherichanja8522]

@@njandrews4105 Stop your bullshit, I know what kind of hell indigenous had to be trough. Guess you are just a fool who want to turn the table and slander my name.

[@escherichanja8522]

@@njandrews4105 Shit like you pretend many things and try to make it look, as if I´m the kind of person who thinks my believe counts more than reality. So go somewhere else with your abuse and don´t waste my time.

[@razarok3584]

Many of the skirmishes and massacres occurred due to misunderstandings. Try to place yourself in the context of the times. The natives had no concept of the ownership of land. For them, the land was (is) a living breathing creature which cannot be owned. From their perspective, when a treaty was made in which settlers purchased land, natives understood that to be more in line with a sublease agreement. That is, they thought they were receiving payment for the use of shared lands. When they returned to find people living there, they felt as though the agreements were violated, many times leading to violence. Likewise, the settlers believed that all rights to those lands were transferred by purchase, and when the natives came back, they felt as though the agreement was being reneged (indian givers), and that often led to violence. Then, of course, vengeance became a factor in many early settlements, where the settlement(s) and the local tribe(s) traded violent attacks in retaliation against each other. All that to say that the VAST majority of native deaths occured in the time between columbus's first contact and the first english settlements, due to european diseases ravaging through populations with no immunities.

[@TDHDN]

Bruh watch the video and you’ll realize that the second part of your argument is totally false. I 100% agree with the land ownership concept as different from European and Indigenous American societies though.

[@njandrews4105]

So why is there a much higher indigenous population in other regions that also have a history of disease ?

[@alephmale3171]

They may have had a different concept of ownership than the Europeans, but that doesn’t mean they had “no” concept of ownership.

[@alephmale3171]

@@gonzalorodeo8520 Spain definitely didn’t give them land; they already had the land.

[@razarok3584]

No proof of blankets actually being used and and a letter pertaining to the use is circumstantial evidence, there are no official records of blankets being used.

[@TDHDN]

Lmao why would they WANT to make official records? Besides, much of colonization happened unofficially.

[@thuglifebear5256]

​@@TDHDN Well, I've tried my best digging, and here's what I've got: 1) In the 1600s The Pilgrims who first interacted with the Natives came back again a few years later, discovering up to 95% of them wiped out by European diseases, likely brought by the first interaction. 2) In the 1760s there is a conflict taking place between the British Colonialists and the local Natives, a letter is written theorizing maybe they could use smallpox wrapped in blankets to drive out the enemy. It doesn't work. 3) Ten years later, in the 1770s there is a second great smallpox epidemic, infecting both colonist and natives alike, by now there is a reference to "tainted gifts" from the europeans, brought by a combination of superstition about plagues diseases, and the fact that they didn't keep their treaties to the original tribe intact. 4) 1870s There is a third smallpox epidemic, by now people finally have discovered something called "germs" and that it's the source of disease waves that keep wiping people out. 5) Activists in the 1990s write about the epidemic in the 1870s, saying the US army used smallpox blankets to wipe out the Natives in the 1870s. This would mean they... discovered the existence of germs, used the old failed tactic from the 1760s, and gave the blankets, _then_ _wrote_ about it in the US army records _later._ 6) More historians, also around the 1990s, jump in on top of the Activists, calling their theory stupid and not properly researched. 7) Schools in the 90s and 2000s, believe the activists, and start teaching that the smallpox blankets referenced in the 1760s letter, _was_ _secretly_ _the_ _cause_ _of_ _the_ _1600s_ _epidemic._ So... The theoretical 1760s letter... written according to activists in the 90s... to be secretly perfected and the cause of the 1870s epidemic... was actually the cause of the 1600s epidemic. 8) At the same time this theory is widely accepted by Hollywood, in children's television, journalists, and local politicians. 9) We are in the 2020s, and we think... that in the 1600s, the initial dirt-poor, starving, ignorant hyper-religious potato farmers from England, had access to the discovery of germs from the 1860s, and a secretly perfected smallpox-blanket-army-bioweapon from the 1870s, had the theoretical idea from the letter written in the 1760s, which didn't work at all, and took ten years until the _actual_ smallpox epidemic in the 1770s... and they were _trying_ to use this knowledge they _could_ _not_ _possibly_ _have_ on the local Natives that had saved their lives in the 1600s to wipe them out to eliminate future competition. It doesn't work. It's a bullshit story. I tried my best. The facts just aren't there.

[@joeydelrio]

no proof other than the native survivors, but since they are not white europeans their voice doesnt count. its not like europeans had a history of these things right? other than burning people alive, torture inqusitions, crusades, executing thousands at a time for being born into the wrong religion, etc etc

[@shawnprice3894]

His Gulping of water on this serious topic is so unprofessional, annoying and insulting !!

[@njandrews4105]

Drinking water is insulting ? Lol 😆

[@niccoarcadia4179]

The spread of germs was inevitable, with or without colonialism.

[@Tech2goit]

WTF

[@TDHDN]

Bruh obviously, but entire fucking destruction of continents’ worth of civilizations was not.

[@reesehendricksen1871]

@@TDHDN yes it was, look at the Inca, their collapse came about primarily as a result of disease. There were many awful things done, though that was because the Europeans could kick them when they were down.

[@TDHDN]

@@reesehendricksen1871 yeah exactly, “the Europeans could kick them when they were down”. Was that inevitable? Was, war, total annihilation, razing of cities, mass rape, mass murder, mass violence, etc. inevitable? Yes. Disease is something you can’t control. Self-control, however, is precisely up to you.