Get GREAT Sound in A SMALL Room

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

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[@gerrylynch3991]

I went from a 13x25 foot room to a 13x15 and struggled to get good sound. Ultimately REW and strategic placement of absorption and corner bass traps helped a lot. Measuring and setting up the subwoofers with parametric EQ was extremely helpful. I think I have better sound now than I had in the larger room.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Sounds like you found a great solution, Gerry!

[@lokerola]

I have a small room and adding bass traps and acoustic panels really helped. I built some of my own and bought some from GIK Acoustics when they were on sale. Then I downsized my speakers to Spendor S3/5's (basically LS 3/5A's), and added a small 8" sub. I pull the speakers close to me in an almost near-field set up. It really works in this config. Fantastic imaging and soundstage.

[@BobCoalWater]

Yes, BBC speakers in near field, amazing sound. I dont have a small room, but I refuse to treat my room (living quarters). I have my Spendor SP 1/2r2's approx. 10' apart and I sit approx. 3.5' back, they are about 6.5' from my ears, the sound I get is amazing. The big draw back... it's for lonely music listening, because the sweet spot is very limited, extremely limited. I'm ok, my wonderful wife does not give a sweet hoot for the sweet spot. The stereo effect with spendors in near field is stunning.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Same with ours - the sweet spot is limited and you have to sit dead center.

[@rofgabor]

it's much easier to accomplish great sound quality in a smaller room. This video could be the first one in a series, there is so much to talk about!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Always open to suggestions too! I know this will be a continuing saga. My goal is to do it without spending much money and bring my experience back for folks to try.

[@johnkreutz3207]

Thanks for a common sense approach to tackling this process without unnecessary anxiety

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I appreciate that, John 🍺🎶

[@Jeep_on_audio]

Canvas posters or paintings have space behind them. The canvas reflects treble partially, so filling the space behind it with foam rubber as thick as possible works really well against flutter echos and reflections. Those big Ikea canvas posters work great.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Great to know!

[@davidstein9129]

Thanks so much for posting this video. I have a small room too. One secret weapon was to 1st invest in sound treatments. The bass traps definitely helped focus & clear up the sound. Even the bass is tighter & more musical. I definitely appreciate all the fine advice the folks at the acoustic panel company gave me to get great sound in my small room.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

They can be wizards when it comes to that.

[@WoodstockG54]

Been into this crazy hobby for 55 years now, and some of my best listening environments have been near field listening, in both large and small rooms.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Cheers!

[@VictorEnnis-n1w]

Hello my friend. I work in sound for a living but in movies. I have a studio at home with ten thousand dollars worth of room treatments. And I have a stereo system in that studio. I also have a stereo system in my living room. Ironically in that room I also have KLH model 5’s. Love them. But that room has zero room treatments and one wall is a set of French doors leading to the backyard. And you want to know the honest truth. I enjoy listening to music in both of those rooms equally. The studio with the room treatments gives me a little more depth in the sound. But my living room gives me more of a better live sound. Reflections will do that. But yes in my living room I have a rug and I have drapes to cover the French doors if needed. But that is it. My point is room treatments can be great. But never a requirement to enjoying music. Just my two cents. Thanks for another great video.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks for weighing in, Victor. I completely agree - it's easy to get caught up in, and obsessing about, treatments, etc. With a little tweaking, if it sounds good and we enjoy what we hear - that's audio nirvana.

[@davidstein9129]

Yes. I agree with you. I am glad that I invested in my room treatments. Music has more depth & impressive height at times too. The depth though is amazing. They focused the sound which is very important to me. The sound is tight & I like it a lot. But I do a lot of critical listening.. So I had that need going into my recent AV upgrade. It all wound up working out fine. I hired a fine young Av Installer/sound mixer & we optimized my updated system's performance together.

[@fredlennon5937]

We hung a very attractive handmade quilt on the back wall. Looks great and absorbs a lot of sound. There is a built in bookcase on the front wall. The speakers are placed in front of this. Works in my 12 x 15 room.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Sounds perfect, Fred!

[@WACONimages]

For a smaller room I went for Danish pure iron cast JERN 11s speakers. Sort of Barbapappa looks. You either like it or hate it. But a great design piece and good WAF factor too. The inside has a honeycomb profile for better spreading the sound. They have a closed cabin and you can place on a bookshelf or wherever right close to the wall. Their sound is very wide! Fills the room with a nice stereo sound. The opposite of like near field studio monitors. There are many options but this one isn't know that much. They like a good amp though.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

The JERNs are very unique looking speakers. Would love to hear how they sound being cast iron. I read that they also mix graphite in as well. One of a kind speaker company.

[@mikecoffee100]

Great advice Thank You

[@petekutheis3822]

10X12 here. Just declutter the room, set the speakers right, then teatments. Speakers away from the wall and I sit in a 5.50 foot triangle. So yeah, near near field. edit--your disyance to front and back walls is VERY close to mine. Book shelf sonusfabers and dual rythmik subs here. Finally the one remaining need---the mcintosh tube amps didnt play well with the sonusfaber woofers---so I added a french made Class D amp, and a Marchand active crossover. VERY sublime now. oh--my GIK absorbers I got are scatter plated as I do like a livelier sound than too dead. Yes, my room was like an 11 year journey getting the definition right and the harshness gone.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It took me seemingly forever, Pete, to get it where it is. Still looking for more tweaks but things are finally settling in.

[@geoffreydebrito7934]

Here's what I've come up with on a modest budget for my listening/living room. Duplex is a rental so I'm somewhat limited in what I can do with the room. I'm single and retired so no WAF to consider. Listening chair placed semi-near field. BTW I place my speakers using a combination of the Sumiko Master Speaker Setup System for determining how far from the front wall to place my speakers and use Jim Smith's 'Magic' Formula for determining both the distance between the speakers and my listening chair's distance to the speakers. Carpet on the floor. All wall hangings employ heavy duty 3M removable tapes. Front wall has three 18w x 28h frameless canvas paintings spaced equidistantly above a low media cabinet. Only the middle painting is placed on the front wall between the speakers. IMO, the higher the rack/cabinet the more it interferes with the soundfield. The room is 18 x 14 and the back wall is 9 ft long with a large opening into the rest of the duplex. A 4 x 6 thick jute rug hung 2 inches off the 9ft long back wall. The left speaker's back wall reflection is significantly lessened by the rug. The right speaker is mostly firing into the opening into the dining room. So its reflection is not a concern. Right side wall has a love seat against it and a 47" x 55" large thick Macrame panel set 2 inches off wall. Left side wall's window has blinds and curtains. Ceiling has a large ceiling fan and globe light, which while reflective breaks up the uniformity of the ceiling reflections. Clapping revealed echos in two of the room's three corners. ATS Acoustic Tri-Corner Bass Traps - 12" (Cream) planned for them. It's true, when a combination of irregular reflective and absorbent surfaces are set around the room a lot can be achieved without great expense. Lamps, pillows, books, etc. all help, the listening room doesn't have to look like a recording studio.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I'll have to check the "Magic" formula you mentioned. Thanks, Geoffrey. All good tips in your comment too 😎

[@geoffreydebrito7934]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Google "Jim Smith’s Magic Formula for Speaker Placement" for a forum discussion of it, one comment gives you the formula. For the Sumiko System, google "THE DIY SUMIKO MASTER SPEAKER SETUP GUIDE" I find the combination of the two system's invaluable. They complement each other.

[@paulc5358]

Nice video I enjoyed. Now I'm going to move my speakers Thanks For sharing!!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks, Paul!

[@Madmart54]

My Hi-Fi Room is my small (as in UK small 10’x10’ 🙂) bedroom. When I first tried my Hi-Fi in there with no curtains it sounded awful. The sound now is great. My speakers are about 18” away from the back wall and roughly 6’ apart and 2’ away from the side walls. I sit about 6’ away from the speakers with a single bed behind me which is against the back wall. I have a subwoofer just to fill the bottom end and not annoy the adjoining neighbours too much. The rear wall has a narrow window with curtains and a column of card board boxes in the middle with a projector sitting near the top. Hence ambient lighting always used and never day light. I don’t use the projector generally when listening to music as I find it distracting. I prefer to observe the sound stage picture the Hi-Fi creates. There is a tiny chimney breast on the left wall with a shelf in one alcove and a fabric wardrobe in the other. On the opposite wall I have my stacked wooden LP shelving and adjacent draw units for all my bits and bobs. It sort of balances the chimney breast opposite for symmetry. Now for the good bit-no expensive sound absorbers but my large card board boxes from moving into my man cave. These are stacked (6’ high from floor level) on the bed behind me, apart from the small window, and seem to do a really good job of reducing reverb. With my system it now sounds like the front table of a jazz club although it looks more like a small kiddies adventure play pen. I think most people upon first seeing it would think it’s going to sound like listening to the captains instructions whilst sitting in the rear gunner turret of a good old Lancaster Bomber 😀. I’m amazed how spacious and holographic it sounds with solid imaging (thanks to my valve amps and recent PSVANE Horizon KT88s).

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I really like those Horizon tubes. Thanks for sharing all that 🎶

[@cunawarit]

Here in the UK, we proudly lay claim to the smallest houses of all the major countries-yes, even tinier than Japan's famously compact spaces. So naturally, when it comes to sound systems, we’ve adapted. We use what we call “extremely near-field speakers” with a cutting-edge listening range of...less than 1 cm. You might know them by their common name: "headphones."

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Perfect 🤣🤣🤣

[@cunawarit]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords on a serious note I do like your points about more natural room treatment. Books, lots of books helps :) Even in a tiny room.

[@garyausten5939]

13x16 bedroom here with 7.2.4 speakers. When listening to vinyl or CDs my speakers are Klipsch RP-600M2s and a pair of 12 subs set to auto so the only turn on when music gets below 40Hz. I'm constantly moving the speakers a few degrees or inches at a time and get some pretty decent sound. I could probably use something on my back wall besides framed photos.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I have those same Klipsch speakers in my review room. In the main listening room I drive Mandioe crazy by constantly adjusting the speakers and toe-in 😂😂😂😂

[@gregcarson3444]

Just read the news letter, my room is a small room, 10 x 11. The speakers are about 7 foot from me, I never thought about it being near field, but I guess it is. I always thought near field was desk top LOL. 1947 small house, wooden floors, but I do have a area rug on the floor, shelf’s on the walls, with books, to break up the sound, long drapes on the windows. And a lot of stuff, to break up the sound, or cause I am sloppy, you make the call. 😅😊

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

😂😂😂. Funny you mention near field always being mistaken for desktop - I actually mentioned that in the newsletter this week.

[@gregcarson3444]

@ That is where I learned it was near field, from your newsletter, I read it every week faithfully

[@SergioGarcia-jg3yy]

The best room I've listened music in my house was a small attic with wood in the ceiling and a carpet on the floor. My gear at that time was very basic but I enjoyed the sound a lot. Now, I have still a basic gear, but I've discovered that nearfield listening is crucial for a great sound when you haven't a dedicated, well treated room. I have a Yamaha as 301 amplifier, a pair of Dali Spector 1 and a Yamaha subwoofer I bought for less than 40€ used. I own a SMSL SU1 dac and an average tablet with all my music through foobar 2000 for android and some Spotify, and, as you say, I never think about reflections, only about music.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Near field was the way to go with our room. About 6.5 feet away from the speakers in a triangle with slight toe in.

[@simonarcher1510]

Speaker stands, especially for bookshelf speakers that were previously on the floor, or misplaced on a desk or other furniture. It can be hard to find speaker stands that put your speakers at the best height, but it’s worth the effort.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Agreed, Simon. I have speaker stands in my review room that I filled with sand. Great purchase.

[@oscar542241]

I think I may have the best option for this. I got wall mounts that have a mounting bracket, which work excellent and have tilt. Pushed the speakers all the way to the back and and it actually helps to minimize vivabrations on the table. Got the table on a isolation base as well. My room is small maybe 10×8 and I hear Soundstage lol

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's awesome, Oscar!

[@Michel-r6m]

Been to high end audio showns and the small rooms sounded surprisingly good. Only once I found a room weird sounding. What also interests me is that the set up of the speakers was usually towards the long wall (shortest distance speaker to listener).

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It's great proof that small rooms can work 🎶

[@davidstein9129]

My AV Installer also worked with me to optimize the performance of my audio system.

[@ClassMPlanet-Yo]

New subscriber here! Really like your videos about vinyl… You’re very knowledgeable and engaging. In regard to listening to music in a small room, I’m not going to sweat the small stuff… I just sit wherever I like and enjoy the music just the same. Keep up the great videos!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thank you!

[@barneyrubble9309]

Lyngdorf Room Perfect room correction solved all these issues for me. Sure, do what you can within the bounds of your living environment so the DSP has less to do then let it do the rest. I stopped chasing better equipment once id heard what it can do. The room really is EVERYTHING.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I've heard for the Lyngdorf Room Treatment - happy to hear about your experience with it.

[@genkifd]

My small listening room is approximately 4m x 5m but its an odd shape with 5 sides. first and second reflections treated and DIY front corner bass traps. Large floor standing speakers, with mono blocks lying next to them. While the components rack sit right of the listening chair. Took about 6 weeks to get the speakers sounding right (positioning). Small rooms have nulls and mine is not exception.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I've driven myself crazy with speaker placement over the last couple of years.

[@hifitommy]

Reflected sound is correct. ReflecTIVE is a property of a solid to reflect sound.

[@patbarr1351]

My listening area is about 13' X 11' but the width continues into a dining area on the one side. (I'm in a still-affordable duplex in So. California.) The floor is vinyl tile with a small carpet & there are blinds, not curtains (a "hard" room acoustically). I get good wraparound sound that extends beyond the sides of the speakers, so my current quest is to add some depth. I'll be trying to move the furniture around after your tips & some of the comments here. When I was 1st setting things up I was able to swap the speaker cables between my old & new amplifier to compare the sound. It was a surprise to me how much wider soundstage I got using the newer amplifier-- a Primaluna valve amp. I have to share my music & video (surround) on the same system, so I have my AVR powering all but the main L & R channels (those connect to the Primaluna). The main L & R speakers are Ohm omnidirectionals, everything else is Goldenear. Mahalo!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It's amazing what a new tube amp will do to the soundstage, Pat. I experienced the same thing.

[@davidreyes9007]

Where did you get that shelf that your equipment is on ?

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Hi David. The turntable is on a wall shelf from Pangea Audio. The rest sit on a cabinet we had custom made in Maine for records and equipment.

[@BostonMike68]

I live near Boston in a studio apartment and I have building my own speakers. My space is only 12" ÷ 16 . I have my surround sound and the other way of the room facing my bed is my listening set up. It's kinda crazy to turn my living space into a home theater and dedicated listening room. But I enjoy it and I am building more speakers so I switch them up when I get bored with a pair. Maybe I can sell some so I can have an excuse to build more 😅

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

One of these days I'd like to try my hand at building speakers.

[@NoEgg4u]

Rick, you hit this one out of the park! I was hoping that you would attend yesterday's audio event at Audio Connection. They were using two new cartridges. Clearaudio's Jubilee and a Benz cartridge (can't remember the model). Both were really good -- but still no match for Clearaudio's Goldfinger Statement. Again, those two cartridges were fantastic. They did everything right. The Goldfinger Statement cartridge just did everything right, but even more right (no other way to describe it). It is like those two cartridges scored 100% on a test, but the Goldfinger Statement cartridge also answered questions for extra credit. The Goldfinger Statement cartridge was not there. My above comment is based on my memory of when they had it there on loan for the day. Yesterday was the first time I ever heard a Benz cartridge. Now I know what all the fuss is about. Richard Vandersteen was there. He answered everyone's questions, including mine, until no one else had any questions. One topic he covered was room treatments. You should have been there! You get one demerit. ;-)

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Would love to have been. It's a haul for me to get there - a few hours drive (5 or 6 maybe?). Glad it was a great time!

[@ricotubbs1]

Learning a lot from your channel. Thanks!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thank you for being here, Rico!

[@Antibackgroundnoise]

Excellent advice. And I concur.. speaker placement for a beautiful big sound stage. Correct positioning of MLP for better perception (especially the bass) And room treatment to bring it all together. Yes, top-notch advice 🎉 I was going to buy Corner bass traps for my 13 x 11.5 ft living room. However, even though the two doors within my small room were replaced with curtain drapes. It was only when I took the punt and decided to doubled the curtains up that the resonance which was actually emanating from the corners had finally been curbed. After that experience, I'm thinking maybe absorbing the standing waves before they become a problem. Maybe time for measurements, I suppose

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It's a constant trial and error experiment for us too. Little adjustments here and there and the sound changes

[@chinmeysway]

great intro to some basics. you do want symmetry however. what’s super challenging is of course treating low frequencies but treating all the frequencies equally while reflecting back the higher to some degree is key, requiring deliberate know how. but this is more specific to mixing / mastering. like other person said it’s not super necessary for enjoyment and critical listening (depending on the speakers horizontal vertical dispersion pattern / design. i mix w three way coaxial speakers and they interact w the room less. theory on listening position is about 38% of room, measured from front wall. play with toe-in on / off axis of speakers, forming equilateral triangle. just good to know some foundational things to test out hearing stereo image. and you actually really want the tweeter at ear level if possible. this is real industry standard stuff; it’s not wacky woo boomerphile stuff ps lol.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

😂😂😂 Made me laugh at the "wacky woo boomerphile stuff". Great information, too. Thank you 🍺

[@utp216]

I went from bookshelf speakers to tower speakers and my room was echoing with the worst shrill! I spend $25 at Home Depot for an area rug (hardwood floor) and the difference was amazing!! Excellent advice in this video! Thank you!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

You're welcome! Thanks for stopping by

[@markadams4316]

My listening room is about 10 x 10. My speakers are too big for the room I think but, after moving them around and small adjustments, everything sounds good. I have curtains on both windows, my chair and an area rug help to absorb some of the reflections.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Not much different than what we did it sounds like, Mark.

[@mr.george7687]

Believe it or not, I have a pair of Magnepan's in a 10X12 ft room.They are the MC 1's. The smallest planar speakers Magnepan makes. I have a hidden small sub in the room. I love to see the expressions on peoples faces when they hear them. They just can not believe the "Wall of Sound" !

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's awesome!

[@vinylrulesok8470]

I have a small room, 11 feet x 11 feet, and a very near listening position, with the speakers well away from back wall. This negates reflections. Best listening experience I've ever had.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I've really enjoyed the near field listening experience myself

[@vinylrulesok8470]

​@TheJoyofVinylRecords yeah, it's a game changer. Also, means you can run a lower power amp and small speakers which are great at imaging. The near field position means I don't have to run the amp as loud. So I run a 25w valve amp with Harbeth P3 speakers and it's magical

[@drunkenskelator]

Very nice video! Great that you cover speaker placement as that is step one before treating a room. I have a smaller room (12x12) but using Kalax bookcases with my record collection, artificial plants and a few acoustic panels it has turned into a pretty great space. I don’t know how share pics of it but perhaps I am limited with what my phone can do with KZbin.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Speaker placement and tweaking has been a constant battle for me. I think I found the spot they will stay in, but everytime I change something I end up doing another tweak 🤣

[@wanderlustjohn]

Thanks for making this video Rick! Great subject and awesome content.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Cheers, John! How's everything on your end?

[@wanderlustjohn]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Good brother...moving into a new home...and looking forward to setting up my dedicated listening room! Pics to follow.

[@remy7721]

My biggest concern with smaller rooms is standing waves, as well as the fact I don't have a grasp on their impact on a listening room.

[@sidesup8286]

A round cylindrical lamp shade is the first thing that made me believe that round things in the room could indeed improve the acoustics. Every time I put the lamp with lampshade in the vicinity of my right speaker, (a few feet off to its side), the sound got better. Some things improve the acoustics by taking them out of the room. Many years ago I once noticed an improvement by taking my old fashioned land line dial phone out of the listening room. Treating a foot or two above the speakers with foam on the ceiling once made my sound less colored and surprisingly more open sounding. Tower speakers can sound great in a small room, as long as their bass doesn't go flat to 30 hertz and below. Nothing wrong in my past experience with using tower speakers in a small room. The equalateral triangle listening postion rule can best be broken. Especially if it would put you in nearfield listening, which makes instruments sound like 2D cardboard cutouts. Take a few steps back and if your system is capable, the instruments sound like 3D entities as the image gels in place. For every foot you move your speakers out from the wall behind it; it sounds like you just spent another $1,000 on a more open sounding preamp. Move the speakers like 7 or 8 feet out and you will need a subwoofer to compensate for the lack of bass due to lack of bass reinforcement from the wall behind the speakers.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I like that last part of speaker distance from the wall. It's a subtle dance. People are skeptical about small room objects affecting sound (like plants, etc). But they truly do. Not sure why they won't accept that but to each his own.

[@sidesup8286]

My sound has been on the ceiling for years now. When you achieve enough air volume, in the sound, it's too much for the room or something and the sound has to go somewhere; so it goes upward. Great signal integrity will give you loads of air volume. Not everything sounds like it's on the ceiling, but vocals, organ and brass almost always make it up to there. It's like you're listening to performers on an elevated stage. The images themselves are not oversize; but the right size. And this with solid state and cd. I do have tube equipment and I'm sure the sound would be even more spacious if I put that into the system. But my room needs a little mid and upper bass boost which my solid state integrated amp gives me. Well designed tone controls do not degrade the sound to my ears.They help it enormously. Every recording has its own different frequency response.Thinking your system has perfect tonal synergy without tone controls is a fiction, considering the different frequency response of every recording, and also considering different room acoustics. A legendary audio designer once said "I never met a room with a flat frequency response." Sound is invisible and so are all the magnetic fields, static fields, RF fields, WiFi fields etc. in our listening room. If we could somehow see these invisible fields, our room would look really crowded; instead of looking like there's nothing there but the furniture, stereo and knick knacks. There are so many invisible fields that do affect our sound, both outside our equipment, and inside our equipment. I know how to deal with these invisible fields inside the equipment moreso than outside the equipment, where these invisible fields are bigger and spread out. Using crystals, RF blockers and stiff like that sounds too far out for most. But stuff like that really can make a difference; and a big one. We don't have to understand it in all its complexity. We can just try stuff and see, (I mean hear) what works.

[@bacarandii]

Wow, I guess I haven't checked in with you for a while. That gear looks all new to me. Are those mono-blocks partially visible over at the far right? Cool! Like you, I converted a small back bedroom (roughly 11' x 11') into a dedicated "media room" full of LPs, CDs, books, DVDs/Blu-Rays and about 25 pieces of vintage audio equipment (including a 1959-71 Dynakit ST-70, a 1977 Yamaha CR-2020, a 1972 MAC 1900, various turntables and tape decks, and an new-ish Marantz AV receiver) -- with a 65" OLED HDTV on one wall and stacks of speakers (from large Advents to KEF R350s) slightly out from that wall on either side of the screen. The other three sides of the room are nearly floor-to-ceiling LP shelves, and there's one 4' window (with venetian blinds) that hints at the existence of an Outside World. There's a 4' x 6' retro paisley area rug on the already carpeted floor, partially under a pair of fake leather reclining theater seats. Yeah, that's all crammed into one little room. All those 12" - 14" deep shelves make a tiny space feel even smaller (more like 8' wide) -- but the good thing is that the furniture and the records act as a kind of low-tech practical "acoustic treatment!" And it doesn't take much volume to totally fill the room with sound (subwoofer in the back corner, behind the seats). Also: Ceiling fan! I only run one switchable amp/receiver at a time, of course...

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It sounds like a great room! Would you believe that those two units aren't mono-blocks but are the phono stage? It's made by Aric Audio (aricaudio.com/super-mm-phono/). One is the power supply with tuber rectifiers, and the other handles the RIAA correction with two 12ax7s and a 12au7 for the output to the amp.

[@hotsummernight289]

No.1 => Carpet No.2 => Paintings or pictures on linen No.3 => Curtains No.4 => non painted linen on the ceiling

[@opticalman6417]

as long as you have bass traps be hide the speakers your be fine having them next to a wall its back ported speakers that are the problem with walls

[@davidstein9129]

Can anybody recomend a curtain manufacturer that sell absorbent products but look modern & not too heavy? Thanks.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

These folks are a class act, David: www.gikacoustics.com/

[@osliverpool]

if you can do some DIY/woodwork, there are lots of guides out there for making your own diffusers and absorbers - and I was lucky to be given a lot of surplus wood by a friendly builder. If that route's not appropriate, as you say you can still do a lot to improve the acoustics - bookshelves, soft furnishings etc. I despair at the number of times I've seen people with very expensive equipment, in a listening room furnished like a prison cell. Finally, there's one big flat hard reflective surface in every room that most people seem to forget about. It's the ceiling, and making some polystyrene/styrofoam diffusers for it made a big difference for me. I'm not sure what else you could do for a ceiling other than that though, as there's not really a lot of soft furnishings you can hang from it - maybe some imagination with lighting fixtures?

[@osliverpool]

@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox You can get stuff that's treated to fire-resistance standards, which is what I used.

[@osliverpool]

@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox (Hmm, looks like my previous attempt to reply didn't work). Yes, that's a good warning - I used fire-treated material.

[@osliverpool]

@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox Oh, no problem, it's good advice! 👍

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Did you find a guide that worked for you, Alan? I'd like to try it.

[@osliverpool]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I posted some links, but my reply doesn't show - does YT disallow replies with links? I'll send to your joyofvinyl email address.

[@mzondi1970]

Mine is a work in progress I have Bowers and Wilkins 706 bookshelf speakers they our little bright so I'm working on that I don't believe it's my amplifiers I've tried two different ones a Denon and a big Yamaha both make them sound a little bright so I'm going with speaker placement and just ordered a little bit of sound panels

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Let me know how it goes if you don't mind.

[@rbdreamsart]

My bedroom doubles as my music room. The only thing I’ve done that may make audiophiles heads explodes is I have my speakers on a long shelf above my windows wedged between the wall and ceiling. But that decision is solely based on space. Not ideal but it’s satisfactory.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

If it works for you, that's really all that matters 🍺

[@hugolopes7654]

Hi there, first of all I would like to thank you for the vídeo, and I would like to ask what is the size in meters of your room please? You could also make a shot video showing all the room 😊

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It;s almost 11x13ft or 3x4 meters (slightly less)

[@carminedesanto6746]

GM ☕️🍳 Small rooms can be a challenge ..but near field listening can be a great way to experience music ….if there’s an issue with having “a room “…then headphones may be the remedy 🙂

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

You're so right, Carmine 🎶

[@osliverpool]

Near field listening, definitely, yes. A lot of people sit against the back wall, but the sweet spot in my small room is about halfway between the back wall and speakers.

[@thomasrandleman7057]

Check out Boris Blank, “Resonance.” Great sound!

[@kevinchew2594]

With small why not try 2way tower speaker rather than bookshelf the sound more good and easy to find right placement with sound good.

[@memyselfmyvinyl894]

I have a converted laundry room for all my audio currently. It's a tight spot. About 5' × 8' of space with a 9 foot ceiling. No windows. I have a 4x4 and 2x4 IKEA Kallax. I have a leather chair. I have too.many records which are on the floor and not on shelves. I've been trying for years to get this thing right. Mostly I use my headphones.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

It's a constant journey isn't it?

[@BradyJohnson1]

Rick, nice video! I noticed you have lots of pictures on your front wall (behind the speakers). It looks like those pictures all have glass. I wonder if reflective surfaces behind the speakers matters?? I have something similar and have been planning on trying removing them to see how they affect the sound. I'm interested in hearing your opinion. When I get the time to try moving mine, I'll let you know how it goes.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

They do matter. What we tried to do was deaden the space behind us to an extent to help with reflections. Also might loom into what we can try with the ceiling based on some comments here, without spending an arm and a leg.

[@marcwilders8699]

Just like a hard surface floor, such as a plank floor, the ceiling also causes flutter echoes. One way to prevent the sound from bouncing back and forth from the ceiling is to mount absorption panels on the ceiling, the so-called ceiling clouds. These are easy and cost-effective to make yourself. Hang them above your speakers and listening position. There is a lot of information on KZbin to make these ceiling clouds yourself. Do not listen to the music at too high a volume. Our brain interprets music at a high listening volume as sounding better, this is a psycho-acoustic effect. So we experience it as better, but in reality that is of course not the case. Apart from the fact that it is better for your hearing, listening to music at a not too high volume has the advantage of reducing flutter echoes. These early reflections can cause phase differences, which means that certain frequencies can even be canceled out. In terms of effect and listening experience comparable to near field listening.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Really good point about not listening too loud. I'll have to look up some tips on making the sound clouds. Thanks, Marc 🎶

[@marcwilders8699]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Thank you. A few years ago I made a ceiling cloud for my studio. I hung it above my desk and listening monitors and the result is amazing. The sound is "drier", without annoying reflections, less ear fatigue and I can judge the high and mid frequencies better. If this has a positive effect on the perception, listening and also experience of the sound in a sound studio, why not in your listening room to be able to optimally enjoy your LPs :). In addition: It probably also makes no sense (to be honest I even advise against it) to place a sub-woofer in a small listening room. The chance of a boomy and muddy sound only increases. Unless you have big bass traps in the corners, but that only makes the room smaller. And we need that space....more LPs ;).

[@marcwilders8699]

If you ever decide to make the ceiling clouds, let me know what your listening experiences are. Greetings Marc.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@marcwilders8699 Thanks, Marc. Will do!

[@ericelliott227]

You got it correct. The only problem with advice on room treatment is that it is always geared towards those who own homes. Apartment dwellers are very limited, they can't put in carpet or install drapes or anything like that without getting evicted. This is where tweaks like furniture and the like come into play, but also actual non-permanent room treatment as well. Yes, bookshelves, even CD shelves or vinyl record shelves make good diffusers. Paintings are good for refection points where applicable as well. Personal example: I have a very small room, it is my living room and is open concept to the "kitchen" and door to my apartment. Flooring is laminate throughout and I'm on the second floor! (I have a major problem from the apartment above me that has no resolution, so that is a separate story). Also, this trend of putting hard floors in apartments on second floors and above needs to stop! Stupidest idea ever!! I have no choice but near-field listening. The room is about 12 feet wide. I have my rack of gear and TV across from me and of course the speakers are on either side of the racks. There is no way to change that configuration unfortunately. However, having ones gear in-between the speakers is NOT, I repeat, NOT a cardinal sin! It can be done successfully quite easily. I have tower speakers that you would have to try to pry from my cold dead hands. Too big for my room? Yes. However, I have a red line I will not cross. First, I can't stand bookshelf speakers. Yes, there are great ones out there , but all I had growing up was bookshelf speakers and I'm a detail hound and was continuously frustrated by them. Most importantly though is that I can't have a sub in the apartment, so that makes it a physical block and bookshelf speakers require a sub. So I'm a tower full range speaker guy, plain and simple. It is easier to tame the 100 pound beasts I have than to set up smaller speakers. My speakers are front ported, which is a good thing because I can't place them too far away from the wall, (just no room). I have them about 10 to 12 inches away from the wall. Any further and I would walk right into them. I have them toed in somewhat towards my chair. They are also in front of the gear racks, which virtually eliminates that reflective point. My seating is a recliner chair. I have one absorption panel in the back wall where my chair is. It is in between two CD shelf units I made. Next to the CD shelf unit towards the sliding glass door facing the side of my chair is a bookcase. Next to the CD shelf unit on the other side is my vinyl shelves. To one side of the room is a large sliding glass window (double pane) to the balcony. The "drapes" are those plastic hanger kind. To the other side of the room is the "kitchen" area and front door. There is no room for a coffee table or anything. I have a small night stand type thing on on side of the chair, but it has zero impact on sound. I had a thin rug at one point and it did not do much, but I lived with it for a year. At that time the sound in the room was ok. Then about a year ago I got a thick rug and did not expect a whole lot, but was astonished at the positive difference it made after I installed it. It changed the game. What it also did was make it easier for me to pin point any further issues. Currently, my room sounds very good except I think there is a reflection point that is effecting balance. I suspect it is that sliding glass door. Adjusting the balance control doesn't help much. So what is my next step? A phone call to GIK Acoustics where I can work with an acoustical engineer for no cost. I have worked with them before. It is a process, lots of pictures and explanations, but worth it. They will tell me if there is anything that can be done or not. I also like how they go to home solutions first thing before talking about any products they have. If a purchase is needed, they only tell you what you need on the minimum. That is the correct way, start minimum and work from there. Sometimes you only need the minimum and your done. One idea for those with TVs in-between speakers or what have you: If you suspect it being a reflection point, try placing a cloth over it when not in use. (you can use a sheet, "light-weight blanket" or buy a couple of yards of material you like from the fabric store). That i what I am trying next, just to see if it makes any difference. I doubt it will in my setup, but I have the material to try it, so why not.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

The folks at GIK are great. I reached out to them out of curiosity on the costs of treatment. Maybe someday, but I am going to try some DIY solutions first. That's cool about the thicker rug making a significant difference, I hope more people see your comment.

[@ericelliott227]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Yes, if I had the facilities I would be attempting to make my own absorption panels or something, unfortunately, I do not. GIK always suggests DIY first. They don't just try to sell you product. They educate and you get t work with an engineer free of charge. That is one of the big things I like about that company. There was another popular room treatment company at the time, I think it was called Real Bass Traps or something (not in business anymore as far as I know for obvious reasons) and in speaking with them, their approach was to just sell you a lot of product in kits for $1500 on up! Another good source for product should the need arise is ATS. Also, while it may be hit and miss quality-wise, sometimes some scrubbing on Amazon or google can find good prices on room treatment product. I knew a guy some years ago that was treating his room after going through several sets of very expensive speakers and not being happy with any of them (your basic audiophile idiot). I was having mercy on him trying to get him to do it correctly and he jut would always think he knows it all and so he ended up buying around $3500 worth of room treatment and kept saying how wonderful everything was going. Then he finally finished and hated it. What happened was he ended up building himself an anechoic chamber basically, by massively over-treating the room. He ended up losing about $2500 having to throw out a lot of what he bought. Yes, I did not think rug thickness would make more than maybe a subtle difference if that. I was surprised how much difference it made compared to the thin rug I had before. What I did was lay down a 1/4 inch pad and then the rug on top, so it is like having carpet. I have a study in physics, but I still can't figure out what such a difference. I'm sure the answer is in the acoustical engineering side of things. However, I also don't care if I find out, it is working, leave it alone.

[@nbkexm4]

You asked in your newsletter to list your equipment. I have a middle of the road stereo, but i like it. Vestax PDX-2000 DJ Turntable Onkyo RZ-70 Receiver 140w 11 channel Emotiva BasX A7 External Amp Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 DAC JBL s312 250w Studio Series Floor Standing Front Speakers Wiim Pro Music Streamer Onkyo TA-RW311 Cassette Deck Sony BDP-s1700 Blu Ray Player I use as a CD Player This is the music side of my home theater. As for my cleaning method SpinClean to pre-clean (with tergikleen) Vevor Digital Ultrasonic Machine (with Kodak Photo-flo) SpinCare to rinse (with distilled water) Record Doctor X to dry Thank you for your channel Rick. Brad LaGrange, GA

[@nbkexm4]

Also use an Ortofon Bronze Stylus and I have 1750 records, tapes, and Cds. I've been collecting since 1973.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Love it! Any chance you could send me a picture with these components?

[@nbkexm4]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords i would, but i dont know how to attach a photo to youtube comments. Maybe email?

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@nbkexm4 Email works!

[@TPQ1235]

Becca, I follow you because you think through these issues. Check in with John Darko in the audiophile space, Trevor Jones in the astrophotography space, and Hannah Rickets in the travel space as all have posted their take on this issue with their subscribers. While all of you speak to different areas, you all share a set of values that align with many of your subscribers. And that is one of many reasons you will be successful.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thank you so much!

[@petekutheis3822]

Oh, and I emailed pictures of my system, with a short back story.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks, Pete!

[@FrightfulMess]

I don't know if our living room in our double-wide can be considered "small", but I always wondered what the contribution to the sound by essentially not having a rear wall, is it helpful or detrimental?

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Walls are overrated my friend 🤣

[@cured808]

Whoa, when did you start rocking that Transcend? I've had my Custom 2A3/45 for about a month now and I'm digging it. Aric is endgame!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

I got it a little over a month ago! Actually posting a video about it this weekend! Aric is an audio wizard.

[@cured808]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Looking forward to it!

[@dasherf17]

Nice video! My bedroom is my listening room...things are a bit askew, not the prettiestt, but do-able...I don't know if I mentioned it here, but we moved a couple years ag from a 3 story to a 1 story downsizing grom 4000 LPs alone (I have about 800 now)...do-able...

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

That's quite a downsizing! Did you sell them all?

[@dasherf17]

@TheJoyofVinylRecords We'll just say "I'm all over town" (what song was that?)...I sold to the various record stores around town (Minneapolis)... I hear songs on this '60s-'70s underground station and am reminded constantly of my "lost heard"...I did keep Atomic Rooster...😏

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

@@dasherf17 Atomic Rooster! Forgot all about them!

[@dasherf17]

@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Vincent Crane from the Crazy World of Arthur Brown, Pete French, later in Cactus...good stuff!

[@neilsteadman8380]

Love your videos!! Don't know your name though..!😅

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Thanks, Neil! My name is Rick - I used to introduce myself at the beginning of the videos but stopped (I can't even remember why I stopped 🤣 )

[@BillyTheKidsGhost]

I don't want any reverb at all, so a small room is preferable for me.

[@davepounds8924]

Or if you’re setup is in a small space where it’s hard to get a sound you like how about an equalizer to design the sound the way you want it???? Everybody’s definition of good sound is different so a equalizer might help in hard or tough rooms

[@Jeep_on_audio]

An equaliser is a 2 dimensional solution to a 3 dimensional problem. That means it only works in 1 very tiny spot. Not a good solution.

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

If it works - there's nothing wrong with that

[@Wordsalad69420]

You think you have a small room. My room is small AND I have a 6 foot ceiling. Beat that!

[@TheJoyofVinylRecords]

Lol - you win!

[@Lovelacewatkins139]

My bookshelfs are full of cd , I guess they are great reflectors😔

[@VladimirChe80]

Plants don't affect the sound, and buying a wall of books will cost more than sound panels.

[@Chryzzz15]

Normally you should have Books …. And yes, plants are helpful

[@emeeul]

A wall of books is useful, if one uses them.