SMALL ROOM ACOUSTICS for beginners

[@syanhc]

It's not a small thing to say that Darko Audio is the best channel for audio. Of course, John covers reviews of new gear - speakers, DACs, amps, daps, headphones etc. But the channel also looks at room correction. John covers hifi shows. John discusses source material whether digital or physical. Darko gets into discussions on the future of audio formats and technology. This channel is consistently the best there is for audio. Period. He even compares audio to coffee! I mean - what more can we ask for. Yeah, I'm happy joining Patron a year ago and supporting the channel and getting John his cup of coffee. I'm happy to spend an hour watching the content too❤

[@4thewinir344]

John and his thoughtful approach to audio reviews through this channel is the antidote to the clickbait-y Cheap Audio Man.

[@pistopitpit]

You forgot to add his (subjectively speaking) great taste for music and even photography. Dude has Todd Hido’s Homes at Night book on display 👌

[@BARTSKI75]

💯 agree

[@tomislavvukusic5051]

'babes, I know we've just spent £15k knocking the wall down to open the rooms up, but can I put a curtain up now to seperate them again?' She's gonna love that 😂

[@davidparkes1508]

By far … the most informative and helpful discussion on room dynamics and sound treatment that I’ve experienced. Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss all these different scenarios and concepts. Truly enlightening.

[@roberthurley1685]

That was a great conversation. I especially dig the 'both/and' vs. 'either/or' approach to effort to make the best of what you have ... listening in a field, eh? . . . back in the day, I worked as a sound tech guy/roadie for an outdoor mid-70's music festival situation in a literal pasture surrounded by Vermont's Green Mountains (USA) - think where Maria von Trapp settles down after the Sound of Music story ... we set up our scaffolding and speakers (think opening scenes of Woodstock), get everything set up just after dark on a warm summer night and literally thousands of young folks settling into hundreds of campsites in the surrounding area, the night before the festival and we test the system with the Sticky FIngers album - you know the opening ... ... that riff echoing across that valley on that night and every camper screaming their rebel yells all around us and almost drowning out the speaker system ... my favorite night as a roadie

[@maximumsoftness7469]

John - you are doing a GREAT service to the audio community. I can't think of another channel producing such outstanding content. Not just boilerplate "reviews" (reading the product spec sheet on a sponsored video), but rather interesting content for audio lovers. I think you've hit a proper stride with these interviews. The Steven Wilson interview was perhaps the best thing I've watched in ages (the format with both of you in front of the camera).

[@syanhc]

Agreed❤

[@thebestoffools]

This episode on room acoustics is brought to you by a pair of headphones (T + A). 😜

[@jacobalvarez7515]

Great education. Says it how it is based on his experience. Looking forward to implementing.

[@CandidSeagull]

Very interesting but I think I'll need to listen to it several times!

[@thefourthcolor]

Love the alternate camera angles to give us a better understanding of "the room." Very thematic!

[@MH-mi6mk]

Hi all, great interview! The last points about the sort of music - the best place to enjoy Gregorian church music is an actual cathedral tells an important thing: next to perfecting your hifi SAVE, save some money for going out to real music concerts! Sometimes I calculate the number of concerts a hifi enthousiast could visit incl. travel, hotel and the opportunity to take a partner along - just for one pair of speakers…

[@richardpretorius4929]

Great video, John! A useful question to have asked Jesco might have been "what constitutes a small room from an acoustic perspective?" Fortunately, Jesco answered that question here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o56Vip-jgrd2bNksi=vzNcX-r2pBIhs4px Jesco's tl;dr is that an acoustically small room is any room smaller than the average school classroom (after some Googling I found the average classroom is 900cm x 900cm x 280cm, but I guess this could vary a bit across the world).

[@christophernoto]

Great timing, John Darko! I got my Forte IVs a couple of months ago, so, now, it's time to look at treating the room. 👍👍

[@ora600]

What is your room size &amp and how do they sound?

[@dan-sc7fm]

Very informative. I am happy to see that you continue to educate and emphasize the importance of room treatment. And, it if you are a DIY person, it can be done relatively inexpensive with a little more information and investigation. I even emailed Jesko when I was doing my room treatment, and he answered back promptly with good feedback. The 15 absorption boxes I made (2'x4'x7" thick using 703 corning insulation, enclosed in light weight garden fabric and finished with a colored burlap fabric) dispersed at reflection points on walls and ceiling, along with floor treatment, makes all the difference in great sound. I spent aprox. 1500. dollars. total. Best money spent and was not difficult at all (actually a fun project to do yourself).

[@stephenmeckley]

Would love to hear more of this about diy'rs and what worked for them! Thanks for sharing

[@jimfarrell4635]

There are so many rigid ideologues in audio, it is great to hear someone who understands nuance and complexity and clearly is in command of their subject. Good job, gents. Also my wife hasn't ruled out ceiling treatment in our main living room. Potentially, at least, a result.

[@apkathompson]

What type ofSubwoofer is that in the video. It looks like a KEF Kube subwoofer.

[@jyrkih6960]

One point on speaker types vs. room treatment: Most home speakers are designed to work with the support of room boundaries. Ie. their balance is expecting room gain to boost bass. Heavy acoustic treatment for lower bass removes the room gain and can make a home speakers sound lacking bass and also their output capacity on bass can run out.

[@steenbondrop]

It's sience. It's physics. It's numbers. And they are real. When you want to have a soft "general" rule as an answer, it is almost abstract nonsense. Especially if you don't want to follow the advice anyway. But don't give up. Make a drawing...maybe with some arrows of how you imagine the different frequencies travel. The ideal for me is yo build a room within a room. I don't want to listen to the neighbours stereo etc either. Plasterboard and cheap wood and a drill for the screws. If people knew how little that actually can be made for, then a lot of audiophiles would do that....parallel walls reflect bass and can have "standing waves", but if you angle some side to be a slight funnel, you can kill bass. Also materials like rubber mats on a frame for low frequencies. The higher frequencies should be easier. Wool, curtains, books, paintings, carpets and even those fancy "acoustic" things you hang on the wall. But no one should start with thinking that it's a mystery. Calm down. It's a project. Listen to your music on headphones once in a while, even though you spent on speakers.

[@ridinglifestwisties]

Great informative video. From your experience can you talk about room treatment when it comes to playing ATMOS music using say Sonos Era 300s? It seems ceiling treatment might hamper the reflections. Thanks!

[@Philear4124]

When it comes to furniture, I think a fabric-covered seat is preferable to a leather one. But you can be sure that we have become wiser from this interview. Grtz Phil

[@michaelgatti3811]

Very helpful interview. I'd like your opinion on treating corners directly behind listening position in 13ft square room.

[@bzcup]

Simple logic from this video: buy speakers, build house around them.

[@kyleo2113]

Excellent video have been watching both of you and then seeing you come together on both channels has been fantastic!! I am on the hifi end of the spectrum. I would love to hear more on rephasing as part of dsp/convolution etc. I have used it some and roon and Audirvana offer ways to use a convolver and I think some people like myself would be interested in learning more. Also, is half a wavelength the dimension when a frequency will begin seeing an object acoustically or full wavelength? Thank you!!

[@Montyzuma123]

How much......did I enjoy this. Absolutely fascinating. Thanks guys.

[@Popecody55]

Hallo from Denmark small country😮 are you on holliday?? Long time without news from you🎉

[@RichL123]

Does anyone have a good video or forum post to suggest that reviews top monitor speakers? Or if John himself has one that would be preferable. Looking to buy a couple monitors for my new office setup soon

[@riccitone]

This has been EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@michaelrossmaessler200]

Excellent video today John. Thank you for bringing in a guest expert who was very informative.

[@genkifd]

This vid is what those objective speaker reviewers on youtube need to watch. i totally agree DSP should be used as a last resort. however DSP didnt work for me in my system.

[@Big-J-8579]

Very interesting. Yes headphones have there place but rarely for my listening.

[@davidread4342]

This is such a good video that explains what the real ossues are and that solutions are not blackb or white. Brilliant job.

[@roybrolsbeak]

honey how do you feel about a sound absorber on the living room ceiling? 'Get out'

[@sivasankar3349]

Hope you are doing well john... Long time no see.

[@tommy-6597]

Can anyone advise what material would be good to put into paintings?

[@824tonimarie]

Wonderful interview ! Thank you John.

[@garrygrube]

absolutely the best interview of this very complex topic.

[@DeeDeeDanone]

Was expecting a Sonos headphone review tbh. 😂

[@futures2247]

just silly most people's ears aren't perfect.

[@davidchesters7040]

Hi John. Can you explain to me why your intro and incidental music sounds better with all my equipment over YT than my Pioneer PD-S904 or Spotify over my PC or through my Roku Boxes. Is it just the bitrate???.... Over my 4.1 stereo through my trusty brick of an amp (TEAC AR-630 MK2) and my Srythm NC25's (A much underated set of bluetooth headphones) it sound brill! Very few Audio reviewers seem to give themselves credibility in this way as you do. PS. any chance you could list tracks or link to them on YT if available, as I've never heard some of the stuff you use to test your systems and I have to keep skipping back, then going to find them to listen to what you were on about withing those tracks....Many Thanks, Big Fan DC :)

[@remcogreve7982]

Headphones are the ultimate room treatment.

[@Skyshakerrrr]

Thank you very useful info.

[@leodesforges161]

My listening room is 7x11. I've been tweaking it for 18 months now. A lot of the things I though I couldn't do were proven wrong. The room is oriented the WIDE way. Much bigger sound stage this way. Speakers, which are rear ported are slammed against the wall. Philharmonic BMRs, so NOT small speakers. 64" equilateral triangle. I also have a DSP'd DIY sub so I am flat to 20 hz. Lots of room treatment, a bit of DSP and the result is stunning. WAY better than I could have imagined.

[@TS-ex4dl]

Excellent--explained no hype -make your own directions/decisions/lists. Check your hearing. Look forward for something important too recordings and transmissions. So many variables! Keep going on your discovery.

[@christopherviers8302]

Let's say I'm building my dream home which will have a dedicated listening room... What would the dimensions be of the aforesaid room...? Should it be a square, or better yet, a rectangle to allow for generous speaker placement away from the front wall...? Great video...!!! Kudos...!!!

[@freovegan]

Fabulous interview John. It was useful as it was entertaining. Nicely done - great if you could do more like that

[@tigertiger1699]

Apologies guys.., the Wife started talking.. I had to pause for 10mins.., sorry to hold you up..

[@andreasmisundberntsen9237]

Regarding DSP, over the past couple of months I built my own music server where I've implemented filters I've generated through the Acourate software. At 495 euro it's pretty expensive, and there's certainly a learning curve, but it's made the frequency response and focus (from correcting phase) a lot better. I have a couple of house curves that I can hop between, from having made different filters. These are loaded into the Hang Loose Convolver software, which runs as a VST plugin in Audirvana. Audirvana is connected to Tidal, as well as my flac library. This is certainly more work than just buying some streamer, but hey, tinkering is fun and I like to think that I'm getting more for my money. I did start off with a room with sub 400ms RT60 though.

[@audio_tron]

After watching this, I think I had some beginner’s luck with the room where my 2.1 system resides. Dimensions, speaker placement, walls, curtains, everything in its right place. I consider myself fortunate to have avoided the struggle of designing a good audio room.

[@garyherman6623]

Hey John...thanks for the video. I still have 20 minutes to go but have you provided some general parameters for room size dimensions....small room, medium, large?

[@markolivan224]

Despite what the manufacturer manual says, you have to treat the PSI AVAA like speakers. They are sensitive in response down to a millimeter in orientation and placement. You know it's sweetspot when the haze and black is better on one channel vs the other and no edge. Use high DR tracks to test then reconfirm with loud tracks where it doesn't congest.

[@enrico-nx1ow]

John, superb video. one question, are your speakers placed exactly the same distance from the sidewalls in your Berlin room? ❤

[@EricNoël-g7d]

Do the test! Big battery (or an EV), two speakers with one powerful amp in a field. Please John make this one! One of the best you did so far. Top ten! Bravo. 👏🏻

[@erwindewit4073]

This is great! Thank you! I never really knew how the low end behaved and whether solid big furniture would tame it a bit. I guess I am lucky to have a wooden ceiling with MDF, 2 layers of insulation, oak floor and an upstairs, which seems to dissipate much of them energy...

[@ke5943]

This was such an interesting watch. Much appreciated. John have you heard about the Bristol university scientists who are working on soundproof wallpaper based of moths and how they absorb bat sound waves for survival? Very interesting and fingers crossed it works for our frequencies.

[@kaneltube]

One thing that I've found intriguing in your videos, is that your speakers seem to be placed asymmetrically, at least if you compare with your front wall absorbers and tv. Is this just an effect of where your camera is placed, or are you deliberately placing your speakers a bit asymmetric - if so, why?

[@klaushollinetz7494]

Great video, good advices from a pragmatic scientific base, which never neglects the actual situations. As a person who works in both fields, I know there are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. But a room is a room, with all that acoustic purposes, there is no way around it (except headphones maybe).

[@bobmcdade5217]

I can only go so far with creating my perfect listening room because I have to respect my wife's aesthetic. By far my best investment was 2 pairs of 'B' grade acoustic curtains that look like regular curtains (if a bit on the heavy side) but have utterly transformed the rooms acoustic. Admittedly, they cost thousands but my wife loves the way they look and I love them for the huge improvement in sound. FWIW they cover perhaps 25% of the wall space.

[@brownixx]

Thanks for the great video. I understand almost nobody acumulates books anymore, but what about the efect of big bookshelves whit lots of books in the four walls? I only have a small window and a door, in a 20sq meters with a very high ceiling.

[@Martin2002tii]

Thanks so much for this. Your videos on listening room acoustics have helped me a great deal. 1) I did a lot of experimenting and measuring to find the best listening and speaker positions. 2) I added some absorption and diffusion to the ceiling and walls, as much as practical for me. 3) I used Focus Fidelity software to make a room correction filter that I apply with Roon's DSP engine. I am really happy with the results in my small guest bedroom listening room.

[@yuriy8057]

Maybe the best overall solution for most people who can’t do very extended room treatment for each personal reason (cost, visual, rental etc etc) but who actually enjoy quality music is just get a great headphone amp and headphones and a good all in one music system for casual playback music/even movies.

[@SuperMcgenius]

All good advice, but like politics , facts are not popular to many😢. Audiophile and pro audio person which is rare.

[@leon23leon]

My listening room is set up in a spare bedroom as approved by the financial controller. Maybe 4.5 metres by 4ish… Compromises… I get a dedicated space to pull music apart. I’ve measured the space before adding treatment and corrected. I’ve measured the space after adding room treatment and I found myself getting obsessed with correcting curves and chasing numbers. I force myself to remember that this is fun. Adding room treatment is fun!

[@GPintoFerrao]

I watched this video very carefully and I have never felt myself as much in agreement with what was said as I did about acoustics and acoustic treatment. Thank you very much for providing us with this interview and this learning moment. Now if it's not too much to ask, I think it would be interesting to make a video on how to use acoustic processing such as Dirac as a complement to the most optimized hearing possible. Thanks once again

[@zadraroberto275]

Great interview and great questions asked. Greetings from the wider Lisbon area from another audiophile expat.

[@sudd3660]

small room acoustic is where i had my speakers for the last 6 years. tiny cube shaped, think you can forget about large soundstage, but still get a pleasant other sound. the improvement from non treated and non dsp to having large thick absorbers and doing dsp by ear is enormous. do all that you can to a room and use dsp, going back now is so bad sounding it is a joke of a hifi.

[@sonusancti]

Given the fact that each room has its unique acoustic signature even after investing on treatment, our best efforts will still fall short. This is exactly why i advocate that passive treatment be augmented by active treatment i.e. the much derided tone controls and equalization devices. Used judiciously you will be surprised at how your itch to upgrade components melts away. Great subject John.

[@bzcup]

The most important question would have been: What's it like to be able to SEE sound?

[@guillermobrito4987]

Thanks John, one of the best videos up to date. Hope you keep paying attention to us, humble begginers in the audiophile world. Greetings from Colombia

[@gpapa31]

Any recommendations for ceiling acoustic absorption panels that I can also super glue?

[@midmodaudio6576]

Great video, very informative but i do get lost sometimes because i don't fully understand some of the terminology. It would be great if your guest would do a primer on room acoustics.

[@labalo5]

Incredible pieces of information being captured here. I see other people referencing this video indirectly. Kudos John. Thank you Jesco!

[@Staybrown11]

What about folks who have walls filled with record? Some say we should stack the records unevenly so that it works as difusión too…

[@Staybrown11]

I’ve seen folks place small brass bells 🔔 in front of the tweeters or placed on ceiling or walls….any discussion on these ideas? I’ve also seen wood resonators….

[@djhmax09]

Way more informative than the series done by new record day, which had a lot of misinformation

[@mikepedersen2042]

Thoroughly enjoyed this video. Your friend does a great job of speaking of these topics in real world ways that are far more than just dry academia.

[@Cencolor]

So the room might be why I listened a couple of days ago to a Kef R3 and sounded way better than a Kef R7 towers?

[@klauskaan6320]

Schnitzel?

[@Kukkema]

Would love a video on how exactly to measure and find the best listening position and speaker placement.

[@paule3999]

So, what is the best way to make soundstage wider? Distance between speakers and me is 2.7m.

[@Echochamber79]

Just fantastic!

[@Krell666]

Fantastic interview, enjoyable and informative. Thanks!

[@arvindtrinity]

Great video but a suggestion, could you keep the longer format of the video to a separate channel and post shorter version of videos on this one.

[@carminedesanto6746]

Great video …and I went with headphones 🎧…a lot less “domestic issues “…😎

[@SaintDC42]

Excellent excellent interview! Thanks for this guidance

[@danwheetman6914]

A lot was over my “audio head “ but really interesting.

[@phrwn]

Can't believe how interesting and informative 67 minutes on room acoustics could be. Great video!

[@erics.4113]

Thank you both for doing this. Great conversation with lots to think about!

[@bigyoshi2456]

what are those beautiful speakers in the background

[@bigyoshi2456]

monitor audio silver 100 7g Limited edition

[@bigyoshi2456]

cool thanks!

[@fabianstein9470]

always nice to see someone listening to Syd Barrett.. Gigolo Aunt is a great tune! also a very interesting topic and very well explained by Jesco

[@paulstebbing1171]

I have a big problem with bass modes at 40hz. I had a couple of 3 seater sofas purchased from a high street retailer, last year I replaced both with better quality handmade sofas and there was a definite improvement in the sound. But the biggest improvement was made when I used REW with Roon DSP.

[@russellparker4568]

I had the same experience. I went from a leather sofa and chair to fabric and the sound improved so much. Same 40hz peak too. It even tamed brightness believe it or not.

[@cesargutierrez4999]

Great information This guy is a genius in room acoustics!!! Ty!

[@adsph]

This is great content. Production is top notch. Thank you John.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS JOHN , for educating with someone who has the experience to help us🤗👍😁💚💚💚

[@tedrackley6233]

Excellent video, John. I watched the whole thing.

[@Dimitris_Pappas]

Very informative! Thank you both!

[@air870]

So if I understand correctly, in a sequence of actions, first treat the ceiling, then the bass traps, then side/ back walls and finish it off with DSP.

[@stephens2r338]

Treat your corners first with bass traps then early reflections. Bass treatment takes up a lot of space that most cannot afford to loose. Corners offer best bass treatment for space used then ceilings they are an unused surface.

[@gln121970]

Thanks! This was very helpful!

[@KITFLETCH1]

Oh no… That base trap reveal moment!

[@ericharrelson32]

Quite informative. Thanks

[@superpeca]

Why is this not a podcast episode?

[@christopherfogarty1877]

Are you still alive?