Get it RIGHT! Famous Franchises with Failed Faces! O-Gauge Lionel & MTH Trains

[@johnandrus3901]

So spot-on, Mike! Most people in Lionel and other O gauge trains want a realistic representation of the prototype. It looks like Lionel took a standard version of the Berk and just put a longer cowcatcher on it. I'm sure that they can find a way to put the proper headlight on it and remove the markers and number boards. That Thomas front looks like some sneaky kid, saying 'Who, me?', when trying to get away with something naughty. As you know, I'm a post-war guy, so we don't have too many scale locomotives, except for the F3's, Trainmaster and a couple of others, to compare things to. Plus, the fact that it was a way different era, makes us much more accepting of what they were doing. Either way, I'll be tuning in on Wednesday, for sure. An excellent video, as always.

[@IsleofPigsStudios]

0:05 While AEG Thomas isn’t the same as the Thomas we all love. It is somewhat accurate to that version of Thomas. Unlike the older Lionel Thomas which feels too flat (literally). James also suffers from this issue (at least with the Model face, the CGI version doesn’t suffer as much in the face department but the rest of the model has the same issue). The rest of the cast like Percy and Diesel have more accurate faces however. Now I do hope that Lionel has the AEG and Classic versions be sold side by side to have an option. Now as for Thomas' face, that was because of an eye mech and swapping faces. Which they did find a work around for a Ready To Play CGI Thomas, so it is possible for Thomas to have moving eyes and changing faces. And since Lionel’s doing away with moving eyes on the O Scale Range, they can easily fix Thomas' Face

[@Steamer96]

I agree. I own an old Sunset Brass model of Grand Trunk Western #5629, and it's the closest representation of that engine available in HO scale. Despite Athearn, BLI, and Bachmann offering models of a USRA Light Pacific numbered as 5629, they fail to capture the distinct look and character of the actual locomotive. I believe model manufacturers have become too focused on profit, neglecting the pursuit of accuracy. Even a simply detailed model should include distinctive features that unequivocally declare, 'I am that engine!

[@Firemanharry]

I was never allowed to have a Thomas the train when I was little because my dad thought his face looked funny. That sounds like a good therapist discussion. 😂

[@levidarling5107]

As a die hard railway series fan, when it comes to my locomotives, I either want a smokebox door accurate to the characters real life prototypes, or faces that accurately match the illustrations.

[@spearmintpony7105]

3:00 There's a guy who modified the models from the Polar Express GCN game to make 3D prints of the parts for the HO model, and he posted the files to his google drive. All you have to do is scale them up in a 3D modeling program and you should have an O-gauge version of these parts.

[@robos3809]

In defense of the polar express, its based on pere Marquette 1225 which is what lionel made, basing it on the original base for the polar express

[@thefuriousgamer2553]

Yeah I see the legacy version as a mash up between 1225 and the polar express from the film and it’s great would I like a fully movie accurate version yeah but it’s likely we won’t get that because it come at the cost of lowering the price since features aren’t present

[@BellaZuikaku4785]

That I can agree with! True in both the book and movie, The Polar Express didn’t have marker lights. But at the time, Chris wanted to use Pere Marquette as the polar express for the film. Soon the blueprints were given to construct the Polar Express but just slightly modified. Also, I think the number boards on the Scale Polar Express is a nice add to the model itself. Me personally, like the American Flyer version, I found it more of a nice touch to the engine it was based from.

[@buecomet831]

As someone who was Railking engines during his youth, honestly, the Railking line of engines is basically my bread and butter if I can't get the premier lines on a smaller scale line. The faces sure aren't great but honestly, it's worth the sacrifice of having a semi-scale engine on my layout without breaking the bank on a Premier line. BTW my curves are 0-36. I always adore Railking Lines and honestly, they are my go-to engines when it comes to finding any engine I want on a smaller scale while still having the same amount of technology as the Premier Line.

[@prhf]

I can count the number of railking engines I had to return with mechanical or electronic defects on one hand... if that hand had no fingers. 4 of the 6 of my last Lionel engines have all been sent in for repair under warranty and one of those came back in worse shape than it was sent in.

[@buecomet831]

@@prhf oof, honestly its the factory's fault for not making sure all of it was put on or checked properly. I mean out of the course of like 16 engines from MTH, some need to be serviced which honestly doesn't count as being defects just a servicing, and like 2-3 i need some fixing honestly.

[@prhf]

@@buecomet831 those 6 Lionel engines were purchased in the last 8 years. Everything I've purchased from them prior to 2017 has worked well with little issues but nothing to warrant a repair return. Personally, Lionel's QC has gone downhill fast since Covid. I've been buying MTH for the last 25 years and never had troubles other than normal wear & tear.

[@patrickd.3681]

Personally, Thomas’ Lionel face never bothered me. But, to each their own.

[@totallytidmouth]

Not terrible but it's not my favorite, could've been better. The alternate expressions look good though!

[@therailbaron18]

Those "signal lights" are called "Class lights". The equivalent to these, hung off the caboose/ last passenger car of the train, are called "Marker lights" or simply "Markers".

[@railroadmillion681]

I don't know how true this is, but I think the Berkshire used for Lionel's Polar Express uses tooling created during the 1990s. So when Lionel decide to release the Polar Express set in 2004, they used the tooling they had on hand. Same for the passenger cars, they use 027 Baby Madison Cars that have been produced since the 1970s.

[@TheWarbonnet660]

Tbh, the legacy polar express looks really nice, sort of a more “real“ look to it

[@amtrakp4242]

0:38 Strasburg Test Thomas Jumpscare (its eyeballs actually melted off)

[@totallytidmouth]

The best lionel thomas faces were Percy and Diesel, Iron Twins too. The trucks also had amazing faces. They dropped the ball hard on Thomas and James. I've swapped my James face with one from an older toy and it makes the model look so much better. No idea what to use for Thomas though...

[@wordenentertainment1997]

I would love to see Lionel redesign Thomas to be a little more accurate. I wish Mattel would allow more manufacturers to make more scale detailed versions of the Thomas and Railway Series characters like the models used in the show.

[@huntercoleman460]

Agree Nikolas. Why do you think Bachmann hasn’t made Thomas models in the Williams line?

[@wordenentertainment1997]

@huntercoleman460 likely Lionel has the exclusive license to produce Thomas in 3 rail o gauge.

[@MaxwellTheTrainFan]

Honestly the Thomas and friends Percy face Now that’s a good one ! But besides Percy … there all crappy .

[@Dadified86]

Yeah somehow Percy got a nice update!

[@NoahDutkewycz]

I’ve always thought that the Lionel Thomas face was off.

[@strasburgsteamproductions3302]

Agree

[@confusedshovel1232]

the only one that looked decent from lionel is Percy. Thomas is beyond questionable and James oversized boiler makes it seem he ate 5 too many big macs

[@strasburgsteamproductions3302]

@@confusedshovel1232 I’m ok with James. The only thing I don’t like is its size. I feel like it could be a little bigger.

[@rivitedrailfan]

Very true! My Grandparents a few years ago got me the MTH Railking SP 4449. And while I’m extremely thankful they did that for me, they giving it to me is the only reason I actually really care for as much as I do. The problem is, it’s very obviously supposed to be an N&W J class, with only a remolded smokebox door and SP paint. Everything is is J class, and it’s annoying at times to look at it and see all the parts that should be there missing, like the front numberboard area and such. Not to mention the valve gear is wrong. All in all though, it’s something I’ll never part with because my Grandparents worked hard to get it for me back when I was a kid, and that makes it special in its own way.

[@Dadified86]

Glad the memories outweigh the rivet counting!

[@prhf]

The early bantam models shared the same chassis. The later imperial models were much different and way better.

[@larken24]

Great video Mike!

[@BellaZuikaku4785]

I think Lionel just wanted to have a compromise between PM and The Polar Express for the scale model by of course focusing on The Polar Express, but have some of Pere Marquette’s traits like the Marker lights and number boards at the front of the locomotive and even the 1225 under the cab window. Overall, I don’t really mind those inaccuracies because I think they just add a really nice touch instead of having a basic looking Berkshire

[@TrainManIII]

Great Video! I 100% agree with you! I too passed on getting a railking big boy (or 2) and saved up for a VISIONLINE big boy instead even though it costed over 3 times more because of the railking’s hideous face! Same with Thomas! I’ve got a Christmas Thomas set that I never run because it just looks so wrong! While I do have Lionel’s newest Polar Express and absolutely love it, I do wish they had at least tried to get the face right. They have Berkshire models in the catalog without number boards, why not use that for the Polar Express? I feel like today’s manufacturers have to push past their uncomfort at creating new tooling and just retool and tool up new models, it will be so much better for them in the long run!

[@ianmccauley5846]

You know lionel makes The Polar Express the way it is because the engine Chris Allensworth based the engine on is the Pere Marquette 1225. A lot of people like their engines based off the real thing as opposed to fictional things

[@Shipwright1918]

Beggars can't be choosers. If it runs well and is within budget, I'll accept "close enough" over every last thing being perfect. As for Thomas, well he and James have had their faces removed in my fleet, replaced by smokebox doors along with new coats of paint and detail parts. They now represent a pair of ex-BR steamers saved from the scrapheap and sent overseas to supplement the existing fleet of steam engines on my road. Kitbashing is swell that way.

[@Dadified86]

That’s pretty cool actually

[@Shipwright1918]

Appreciate you saying so. Got inspired by the Reverend Awdry's models, which were likewise faceless, and I like British locomotives/equipment. Besides the Hogwarts Express, there really isn't much in the way of that in 3 rail O here in the States, so I had to get crafty with the Thomas items as well as importing some things from the UK.

[@totallytidmouth]

Dude you've gotta show those off, those sound awesome!

[@Shipwright1918]

Made a couple videos a couple years back when I first got them finished, been kicking around the idea of making an updated showcase video with all my British equipment.

[@totallytidmouth]

@@Shipwright1918 I'd be there! Subbed!

[@anthonydrawsome3648]

another thing on thomas i dont like, the overhang under the cab, thomas’ wheels are supposed to be long an fit his body, but lionel had to screw him up.

[@BossMike789]

The only big boy with a correct smoke box door is the Broadway limited one

[@strasburgsteamproductions3302]

I agree with you what you’re saying, but honestly I just cope with it. I do wish Lionel could give Thomas an accurate face and the Polar Express. Even though I’m not a huge into Union Pacific I do agree with you.

[@Manwholikestrains]

I don’t mind the superheater or the little “gems” on the polar express but i absolutely hate that they are animate to put a protruding headlight on it when the movie and book both protay it with a headlight that’s flush with the smoke box door

[@strasburgrailfan90]

A good example is the Black River 2-8-0 they got the lettering on the number plate wrong and the headlight is way too big

[@RailfanUS]

Idrc about the scale polar expresses face not being accurate, I personally like this face of the polar express like this as well, this is just my thoughts please no hate.

[@railchief74]

I mean, the 1225 gets everything both right and wrong about it. The newest Thomas the tank engines though get everything wrong including the paint and still no lantern in

[@JohnSaavedraLikesTrains]

Hi Mike! Just wanted to ask something. Who’s your son’s favorite Thomas character?

[@Dadified86]

That’s a great question. Depending on the day / what we’ve seen recently, it’s either Percy or Edward.

[@sjlove20]

@@Dadified86 can confirm. I just asked him 😊

[@PopPopsTrainRoom]

another great video

[@joshwalton133]

Well, he's definitely right about the getting the faces right, especially on real trains and definitely which manufacturers start doing that. The only ones are more realistic that do that sort of thing is maybe people do the HO stuff they do. get these engines right the faces but he is definitely right about the Thomas fade. There's this one Barry Thomas, but it's not like the cartoon one now, but there was like one before that that I did admit that I thought the face kinda creeping weird. I think here I have it for the old Thomas phrase from the old Thomas Show or the animated version. Happy face over. those faces that he was talking about with the Thomas stuff.

[@Guytrains]

Very entertaining 👍🚂🚂🚂🚂

[@harrisonallen651]

I’ve always been a Hornby person

[@colestrains1]

I’ve been giving Lionel crap for their polar express goofs for almost 10 years now. LIONEL MAKE IT BETTER BY DOING LESS.

[@kelleec6319]

When you say the face of a Steam Engine is called a smoke box door

[@kelleec6319]

except when you talk about Thomas and Thomas characters they have a face

[@Dadified86]

The “face” is more than a door. As a kid I always imagined the class lights as eyes, the handle as a smile. Sure the parts have names, but I still think there’s a face there 😊

[@therailbaron18]

For all the Polar Express complaints, you aren't considering what all these "little changes" would entail- ENTIRELY new tooling! That's tens of thousands of dollars, at minimum.

[@thefuriousgamer2553]

Yeah I can never look at some railking steam and say they look good mainly the big articulates there is only a couple railking steamers I’d consider the Mohawks and berks cuz I know the berks have a better proportion then the Lionel semi berks not talking about the 726 or 736 casting I’m talking about the polar express and N1 casting

[@SouRwy4501Productions]

Lionel and MTH are just making them cheap and selling them for unreasonable prices.

[@Dadified86]

Yeah can’t say I’m thrilled about what I’ve heard with the new catalog pricing that drops tomorrow. We’ll see if it’s as bad as they say…

[@richardjayroe8922]

Good points, but if you wanted scale accuracy then probably should have chosen a different scale and not a toy train company for detail

[@Dadified86]

That’s true to a point, but I never mentioned wanting scale accuracy. Just would like things to look like someone was actually trying 😅 My roster is full of semi scale locomotives but many of them exhibit more effort put into making them look faithful to the prototype than these!

[@dillontrainvids25]

Oof….thomas…..SO CURSED

[@KatyPacific382]

Lionel's messed up their Legacy M-K-T pacific 411 on a level that shouldn't be scientifically possible. 1. 411 never had a centered bell, it was infront of the smokebox like all the H-3ds 2. The real 411 never had baker valve gear, all the M-K-T's pacifics built by Lima all had walschaerts valve gear. 3. M-K-T engines never had headlamp visors $1500, and they can't even get an M-K-T pacific right. I've said this once and I will say it again *"Modeling a usra engine as a Missouri Kansas Texas engine is NOT that hard"*

[@Dadified86]

Yeah they’ve moved bells and done headlamp adjustments before at least. I get why they don’t swap the gear but at least get the front right! Would be nice

[@Newt1969]

Great video, mediocre singing.

[@Dadified86]

I’ll stick to narrating 😅

[@RaysTrains]

Disagree Mike the the crooner of the group with me 2nd

[@Dadified86]

@@RaysTrainsmy hero come to defend me 🥰