Get Ups and Simple and Sinister

Clip from Episode 14 of The Dan John Podcast
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Dan John has spent his life with one foot in the world of lifting and throwing, and the other foot in academia. An All-American discus thrower, Dan has also competed at the highest levels of Olympic lifting, Highland Games and the Weight Pentathlon, an event in which he holds the American record.
Dan spends his work life blending weekly workshops and lectures with full-time writing, and is also an online religious studies instructor for Columbia College of Missouri. As a Fulbright Scholar, he toured the Middle East exploring the foundations of religious education systems. Dan is also a Senior Lecturer for St Mary’s University, Twickenham, London.
His books, on weightlifting, include Intervention, Never Let Go, Mass Made Simple and Easy Strength, written with Pavel Tsatsouline as well as From Dad, To Grad. He and Josh Hillis co-authored “Fat Loss Happens on Monday.”
In 2015, Dan wrote Can You Go? on his approach to assessments and basic training. In addition, Before We Go, another compilation akin to Never Let Go became an Amazon Bestseller.
In early 2017, Dan’s book, Now What?, his approach to Performance and dealing with “life,” became a Bestseller on Amazon. Hardstyle Kettlebell Challenge became available in September 2017, too.

[@jessebriggs3181]

YES! That was me! Thank you for answering! Sorry it wasn’t a better question. I did getups and swings for a bit to experiment, but progress in my sport kind of tapered off after a few weeks....like you say, everything works, for about 6weeks. I went back to 1 lift a day with one of those days being loaded carries, which worked well for me in the past. Im having great results, finally hitting over 2x body weight in the deadlift and body weight overhead ( @235lbs). It worked so good before, I guess, I stopped doing it....Thank you for taking the time.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Great work! Thanks for this.

[@Paul-df7jk]

I'm a 66 male. I do the Turkish get up daily with an 8kg k'bell. 10 for each arm. I personally love this exercise and feel it really helps me for mobility as I get older. To me technique is critical. I have now mastered my technique after many modifications. I may go to 10 kg or at the most 12 kg in the future. Not interested in going really heavy.

[@c330user]

I totally agree. I think light weight Turkish get ups are great for general strength and mobility. No need to do them with a huge weight. I can do 24kg, but not ten each side and I am a big guy. Not sure I will ever try 32kg.

[@stefanwolf8558]

TGU's is an exercise that you either love or hate. I personally include the TGU in my programs because it has a huge carry over to my sport - BJJ.

[@stefangeschke7604]

@@c330user Funny to come across my old comment again. I recently did the timed simple standard, which includes 10 tgus with 32kg in ten minutes. I had to do it, but I am still a bit concerned about getups this heavy.

[@willpanuska731]

TGUs are excellent for grapplers (especially BJJ guys and wrestlers). The movement perfectly mimics a fighter trying to get up from bottom positions. The core bracing it teaches you is perfect for that.

[@eamonob84]

Yep, I love it as a grappling specific exercise.

[@robcarney7597]

"I think we can have a nice dinner with all the people who ..." -- that's a nugget I am certainly passing on

[@flowintofreedom4531]

I love how it was a easy read & really motivating. Will start soon daily KB Swings and instead of the turkish getUP us a different one like facepulls and pressed for 1 month daily 100 reps and see where his will go!

[@nks432]

Hi Dan... thank you for this answer... never been a fan of get ups... risk reward not worth it for me... my program alternates between high volume perfect pairs (double handed swings and press ups) and 5 Armor Building Complexes, 75 swings (25 x double, 25 x L, 25 x R), 10 rows (5 x L, 5x r), 12 Halos.(Take the ABCs up to 15, swings up to 100, rows up to 24, and halos up to 24 before switching the programing). Alternate days with lots of rest and good nutrition.

[@lgonzalez8635]

I’m glad you put your thoughts out there. I’ve been an sfg certified instructor for a couple years now. And just naturally gravitated away from tgu’s. I can do other things well and rarely found it necessary to go above 24kg for get ups. I can do them with the 48 but there is probably better uses of my time and I don’t seem to want to do the whole simple and sinister thing for much longer than a few weeks when I just need to for recovery or time constraints.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Well said!

[@nickfarrell429]

When the gym opened back up in Cali for a bit I went to do a quick workout. I was practicing some get ups for the first time on their floors. I’m used to doing them with no shoes. So I took my shoes off and left my socks on (bad idea) I slipped and nearly tore my shoulder out and tweaked my groin. Thankfully I didn’t get too hurt. Then a few weeks later at home I was doing get ups with a 24k and lost focus on the press and lost control of the bell, I just had to let it go, annihilated my new floor lol

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

This is exactly why I don't recommend heavy TGUs. I hope the injury wasn't too bad.

[@vidalvelez9983]

Very smart answer...

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Occasionally it happens...

[@dmck4414]

I really like the get-up - but I think it's an important distinction that my primary motivation for getting good at them is for output and injury prevention during grappling. If my goal were pure strength, of course there's far more "bang for your buck" in less fancy compound movements with a lower risk factor. I like the way it challenges the body as a cohesive unit - it really translates well to grappling I think. Balanced and fair opinion as always Dan, thank you

[@eamonob84]

Yep, I love it as an exercise to benefit grappling.

[@ThePunksta333]

I totally agree with this one 👍. Doing heavy Turkish get ups is super dangerous, not to mention, you might break a nail 💅.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It is tough to discuss this issue with any level of seriousness. That's why I choose not to any more.

[@asafry2873]

I believe Pavel mentions you can do half getups in his book until you can do a full one. He also talks about half getuos used as physical therapy.

[@blockaderunner]

My problem is sweating. I begin to slip after 20 or so starting with 35 lbs, then 40 lbs, then 50 where I can barely keep from dropping it as I transition via a clean. I start in the standup position and get Down first then get back up switching sides at the top for a continuous motion.

[@yewang657]

water bag provides more challenge on stability with much less weights compared with KB, so if you are not doing BJJ/Judo/Wrestling, using water bag for getups might be a better and safer choice.

[@enensis]

Have to agree its kinda poinyless as a strength excersize. It's good for warmup stick to a light weight.

[@Vanjrl337]

It’s silly to say, but the biggest benefit to the Turkish getup was I got really good at getting up off the ground…

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

That's a massive benefit. Thanks for sharing.

[@tonyx8750]

There is a picture of you Dan on page 11 of S and S.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I know...

[@ecthelion205]

Not on the second edition, unless… Dan transitioned to a young black woman named Asha.

[@Jeff-rx4de]

Watched a guy drop a KB at an LA Fitness on another patron doing this exercise. Cost LA Fitness a few bucks.

[@mewtwostrikesback569]

So apparently something has changed since you wrote "The Hardstyle Kettlebell Challenge". Probably should clear some things up on that one since you wrote extensively how essential get ups are to overall strength and mobility

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Get ups are a good movement. I don't like them heavy. I've been discussing this in various formats for a little while now. Learning means opinions change over time.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

@really sore knee No, not really. I work with a guy who dropped a 40K on his chest coming down; literally, inches from some serious stuff. I have seen some bad stuff at certs...sometimes we have to be adults and say this isn't a good idea. I don't think I ever pushed heavy TGUs.

[@blakerainwater6036]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach There is an article from years ago where you mention that some of your very strong high school athletes had worked up to a 48kg??maybe. I remember because I thought that was a very very strong high schooler. If I remember correctly, in one of Hackenschmidts books he prescribed something like 20 get ups consecutively on a side (no ones is going heavy there). So mainly for muscle endurance. I would guess for grappling. I tried it long ago with a light weight and it was enlightening.

[@Likosak]

You gotta understand one single thing - TGU is technically among the most difficult exercises you can do in leaded manner. It's also a reason why it's so good. The coaching and generally mentoring is what really makes this exercise so difficult. People with certain experience start to get more adventurous. It's natural development pushing your limits and wanting to see where you abilities are. Sometimes it's the group hype, sometimes it's the "I am going to prove this is not so difficult" mentality that really drives this desire. In normal settings bailing on a lift is not so difficult, when you know your stuff. Even in Olympic lifting having a heavy bar above your head is less difficult to bail on then bailing on TGU. TGU is especially tricky when you are going into the bridge part of the movement. Bailing there is almost always a recepy for disaster... not really mentioning 40 kgs 1 m above the ground is roughly 400 J of energy stored waiting for you to fall on your body. Here is the core issue - you should never even attempt to lift heavier TGU without knowing that you are capable of lifting your current weight five times at each side. It's like a safety check. And you should never try to attempt it on your own. Spotting in this instance is probably one of the most difficult spotting jobs you could have asked for. Your spotter gotta understand the lift, his or her positioning and at the same time it requires tremendous focus from the spotter. Here the risk and reward ratio is so high that for someone, who doesn't need TGU for wrestling it's almost pointless to even bother with it. Yes, it's such a powerful exercise but it also puts a high demand on one's a ego control and mindfulness which not all people are generally capable of. Getting safely to 40 kgs is matter of years of practice, yet even experience lifters who didn't had any injuries struggle to avoid mistakes because they overestimated themselves. Just passing "simple" standard is huge deal and poeple approach it like fitness challenge with the same mentality which on many levels has to be avoided here. TGU is no joke when it comes to control and providing safety should be the no.1 importance for any coach out there.

[@brawndothethirstmutilator9848]

I’m one of those weirdos that loves the Bent Press 😂. It’s my favorite press. Second favorite is the Dand (aka Hindu Push Up).

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

And, that's great. There are so many exercises and people want my opinion on them and generally I can only agree (or disagree) so far. Frankly, and I think you know this, if you LIKE an exercise you are miles ahead.

[@robertwegner9086]

Can you post a tutorial on the get down and press?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

instagram.com/p/B9R7ptGH27x/?

[@robertwegner9086]

Thank you!!!

[@gm1799]

I recently started doing simple and sinister but in my first get up session I lost balance and twisted my arm and it felt like my elbow was about to snap arm wrestler injury style. It hasn't really put me off the movement but even when I do it correctly and don't have any close calls I still don't feel many benefits but I'm still only a week in so I'll wait and see.

[@astrocslopes863]

If kept light (and I’m talking “check your ego at the door” 20lb light), they can be a good bang for buck warmup and mobility exercise. With heavy weights they serve the same purpose as doing YTLWs with 100lb dumbbells. In other words, no purpose.

[@yetigriff]

Would kb press be a decent push alternative?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Absolutely. Wow, this video is getting dated...

[@yetigriff]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach thanks Dan

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

At the risk of asking a stupid question... does a half get-up refer to going up without going down, or to stopping and going back down before reaching the standing position?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Basically, it is the latter.

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach thank you coach!

[@warrenellis1023]

I have immense respect for Dan John and his work. I can’t help but wonder if Pavel burned some bridges. Pavel has published work which praises Steve Maxwell and Dan John highly, and I’ve seen sources from them which reciprocates praise. However, in recent years, I sense a lack of approval for Pavel’s work from Maxwell and John. I suspect we will never know, as John and Pavel are class-acts, but I can’t help but wonder if there’s “beef” behind the scenes…

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Not really, no.

[@angrysquirrel187]

Kinda interesting to hear him lightly take shots … always thought he and Pável were connected at the hip. (I will say one thing about Dragon Door and Strongfirst that always bugs me is all of their photos in their books look like xerox copies. Has color photos not been invented in their area yet?) Ive always thought of the TGU as a diagnostic tool more than anything. If there’s a sticking point , then you’d know what (better, scalable) exercises to do to improve that area.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Well, I’m not connected by the hip to anyone. I don’t like some of these programs, it doesn’t mean that Pavel and me have issues. I like minimalism but I think the KB community went way too far into the idea a few years ago.

[@angrysquirrel187]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach no offense intended. I think “Convict Conditioning “ was the first sensible programming I’d come across in my training (bridging literally changed my life). That led me to “Naked Warrior” and eventually a whole library of books including “Easy Strength” from Pável and you. Just got your new book “Armor Building Formula “. Thank you for all the great content .

[@sergiichmyl2095]

Replacing a kettlebell with a sandbag changes the picture? What is your opinion on the sandbag?

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

For get ups? Don't do get ups with something MORE unstable than a KB.

[@anyadatzaklatszjutub]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach I think the point is that a big, heavy pillow wont hurt you, well... hurts you a lot less, than an iron ball, when things go wrong. Would that change the risk - benefit analysis?

[@matthammon6299]

I think the answer is to do get ups with a manageable KB, dumbbell or even (I think Dan said this lol) a shoe ha! The key is the weight is reasonable. This shouldn’t be a max out see how much one can do exercise. Dan stated elsewhere in this comment section that he saw a guy drop a 40kg (88 lbs) bell on his chest. REALLY? Go figure 🙄. The get up is a good exercise just needs to be done with reasonable weights and good form.

[@leemanwrong]

Matt Hammon yep in his book Pavel says to take time to master the movement and don’t move to a heavier bell until you own the weight you’re currently using.

[@Ophio117]

sandbag getup with sandbag over the shoulder (not overhead) is legit. I never did many KB TGUs, but I've done a LOT of sandbag getups with around a 85lb bag and had a good time. 10 minutes max reps was the tester and in between testers I did them to a metronome with breaks every few minutes. You can push a lot harder than with TGU because it's a much less technical movement so you can push them until you're stupid without killing yourself

[@bendadds6782]

It sounds like what you are saying is that you wouldn’t recommend the TGU because if done incorrectly there is a high degree of injury, especially at higher weights. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

[@farstrider79]

Just don't go heavy.

[@keysersozae]

DAN JOHN

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Hello!

[@user-cf2px2ko8y]

Always speaking common sense

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

I do my best

[@eahuso]

i know you´re one of the g.o.a.t.s. but i have to say, that i got back pain since i was a child. i dont get it "risk reward not worth it " !? not even once i got an injury because i did TGU´s. i started with 16kg improved super fast till 36kg. never ever got injured. my back pain was gone ever since and i got a great posture and strong shoulders. its more thai chi than bodybuilding, i think is a good quote ;) but with swings (or the 6 primary kb moves) it will boost youre body

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

It's great if it works for you. I've seen enough people get hurt with them that I don't do them heavy and don't recommend them to anyone else.

[@brianlocal3]

@@DanJohnStrengthCoach what do you consider heavy? I only do them to 24kg for mobility type work

[@DylanM333]

@@brianlocal3 24kg is to heavy... that would snap my wrist. 20 lbs is more reasonable...

[@sajidakram2597]

Where you from uncle ,I need your help plaese

[@gregshock]

I don’t do Turkish Getups because I don’t like them. There, I said it.

[@DylanM333]

better off to just get a heavy kb and rack position it and hold it there as long as possible safer to

[@DylanM333]

and it works pretty much all the same muscles as turkish getup because of offloading

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

@@DylanM333 This is an old video. It is fun to do a TGU with the bell in the rack, by the way...it makes you move a bit different. Nothing crazy, but different.

[@adlemmwanza2801]

No one does Turkish get ups?? Tell that to a grappler especially Bjj fighters its pretty much a staple exercise.

[@DanJohnStrengthCoach]

Listen to the video before you comment. I said that about the Bent Press.