Getting started on RENAISSANCE recorders! | Team Recorder

Your introduction to Renaissance recorders! What they are, how they are different from 'regular ones', what to buy, what music to play, how to play them... and you'll be merrily on your way to nailing all that 15 and 16th century music!
LIKE MY TEAM RECORDER T SHIRT? All Team Recorder products will be launched in next week's video, exciting!!!!! Stay tuned...
/// RESOURCES
Recorder makers I mention:
HANDMADE CONSORTS
Adrian Brown www.adrianbrown.org/
Peter van der Poel www.petervanderpoel.nl/
Adriana Breukink www.adrianabreukink.com/
Bob Marvin bobmarvinrecorders.wordpress....
ONES TO BUY
Mollenhauer/Breukink 'Dream' recorders
www.mollenhauer.com/en/recorde...
Moeck 'Kynseker' recorders
www.moeck.com/en/recorders/rec...
Moeck 'Consort' recorders
www.moeck.com/en/recorders/rec...
MUSIC TO PLAY
My first tudor consort book
www.rondopublishing.co.uk/prod...
All available for free on imslp.org :
Anthony Holborne
Thomas Morley
Van Eyck
Virgiliano
Bassano
/// INSTRUMENTS
In the video I show:
- our Renaissance consort by Peter van der Poel (here we see a soprano, alto, tenor and basset)
- Baroque alto 442 by Yoav Ran
- 'Dream' Alto 442 by Mollenhauer/Breukink
//////
SUPPORT TEAM RECORDER ON PATREON
A small monthly donation to Team Recorder will help this channel to grow, and you get great rewards too!
/ teamrecorder
/////
Don't forget to check out my other videos, and SUBSCRIBE! Turn notifications on by clicking the 'bell' icon, then you never miss a thing. A new video will be posted every week!
------
Website: www.sarahjeffery.com
Twitter/Instagram @sockmyshoe
Go #teamrecorder

[@rauljosegarcia]

The simple look of the Renaissance recorders is so beautiful.

[@emilielaroche7949]

I'm a music student and i need to write an essay. one of the choice was to explain the development of an instrument through out renaissance and/or baroque. My instrument simply did not exist in that period of time making me choose an instrument to whic i liked the sound of but never really played. I choose the recorder but i don't know much about it. I choose to watch this video to give me a sense of the instrument and the difference and the term used so the paper would be easier to write. This helped a lot. Thank you so much. Got yourself a new subscriber :)

[@Krfification101]

Thank you so much for the tips on repertoire. I'm going to put that Tudor book on my wish list. I started learning to play recorder so I could play Renaissance music.

[@emelpuck5437]

How I love Renaissance instruments and music !!!

[@emelpuck5437]

And Baroque as well - specially the early days of Baroque.

[@jcortese3300]

1. One of the things I really like about Baroque and early music is that it actually is period appropriate and just fine to play left-handed, as I do on 19th century "Irish" flute (which is also fine as long as you start in ITM). Rightie-uber-alles hadn't gotten off the ground yet in the 1400s, and people don't understand just how unbelievably horrible it feels for some lefties to play the wrong way around. I figure all technology is assistive technology, so I might as well spend my money on something that works for me. :-) 2. Okay okay okay, FINE. I just bought an alto recorder. Happy? :-) Seriously, your channel is a lot of fun. Few things are more enjoyable and contagious than seeing someone talented and enthusiastic about something they love to do.

[@mlapergola]

Fantastic video! I've been looking for a proper side by side of baroque vs renaissance recorders, and this is by far the best one. Would suggest indicating the comparison in the title (eg "baroque vs renaissance recorders comparison") to make it easier for those who are searching for it. Thanks Sarah for your work!

[@ornleifs]

Been watching your channel for about a year and have finally decided to buy a Recorder. I play the Piano and Guitar but I really love the Recorder, specially the Baroque repertoire and I think it would be such fun to be able to play some Bach on the recorder. After rewatching many of your videos I finally decided to buy the "Mollenhauer Adri's Dream Recorder Soprano" similar in design to the one you play in this video. I both love the sound and design.

[@barcher]

Thanks for another brilliant video, Sarah! I especially liked your comment about consorts. If people want to play Ren recorder with others, they should find out which make is most prevalent in their area. Here in the US, on the East Coast at least, recorders made by Thomas Prescott seem most popular. There are Prescott classes at many workshops. By the way, these are 440hz 1/4 comma meantone and will NOT play in tune with baroque instruments. I hope people realize this before they make a large investment. And yes, they are pricey. My keyed tenor cost $3200 and I was on a waiting list for a year. So folks, find out which make is most popular in your country. I am very lucky to study with a teacher, Wendy Powers, who specializes in Ren recorder. And despite my initial grumbling, I now LOVE studying mensural notation. Ligatures, ficta, modes...oh my! C1, and C4 clef seem like second nature to me now. At first, like anything, it seemed so very, very difficult. But I think any recorder player can learn it. I know many players see no need to learn early notation, but I find it extraordinarily satisfying.

[@Jesuswinsbirdofmichigan]

I'm glad to watch your work. It of course is great for musicians, and then also people like me that aren't can still learn and more! Your enthusiasm and experience combined with these small doses of genuine humor are so special, and needed so thanks for all your hard work at producing these great 'tools'.

[@adriennewiggins2977]

Thank you, Sarah! I enjoy your videos very much, and have begun sharing them with some of my students (9 and 10 year-old beginners). They LOVED the Top 10 Recorder Mistakes - and one of the boys said that you are beautiful even when you are sick. 😊 Thank you for sharing all of these resources!

[@genuineyou]

My group has decided to buy a set from Peter Van der Poel!! Your video (and talking to lots of other players) helped us a lot. Thanks Sarah!

[@Team_Recorder]

Ohh brilliant! Peter’s instruments are fantastic!

[@tubequadros]

Wow, I was just looking for Renaissance music and flutes! Thank you so much for this video, I loved it! (and all the other ones too ;) )

[@maxdmachy]

inspiring, stuffed with information, great video! Great that you go into details like fingering and repertoire

[@sydneywhitfield7497]

I'm so happy I found another person who plays the recorder I felt like I was the only one

[@grumpygoat4515]

I bought my Mollenhauer Dream recorders for the same reasons! Baroque range, pitch, and fingering, plus the Renaissance look, partly for historical reenactment purposes. And great for pop and folk too. I'd have preferred the plumwood ones (dark wood with light decorative rings) but they were too expensive, and I ended up with the pearwood (light with dark rings). The wood is going darker with handling and oiling.

[@Pavanesound]

O my goodness - I am so glad I have found you at last! I have been trying to approach the world of Renaissance recorder for the longest time and never knew how to get started. Thank you a thousand times for taking the time. Now the fun begins!

[@argonath1000]

You are soo funny. Thanks for the great videos! So informative and well structured. Helps me so much in reentering recorder playing after Oboe for 30 years, now more baroque oboe...

[@1Ipodtouchfan]

Could you talk to us about what you may know about the modernization of recorders? If you happen to have access to modern recorders? I always found a fascination with recorders just because to me, if the recorder wasn’t taken over by the transverso, I just wonder how it would develop, and what role it could play in our world today. Like would the recorder be a member of the standard orchestra today? And if so what kind of timbre’s and colors would be used? I would love to see a video on this!!! Thanks a bunch!

[@johnmcdonough5514]

Lovely Renaissance recorders! LOVE EM!!! Wish i had scads of money to get my own set. Found myself thrown in the deep end playing all sizes in Monteverdi and Gabrielli in a cold damp church and trying to reach the low tenor C and keep it warm hahaha! Stuggle for an professional oboist trying to pose as a professional recorder-player... Abso-bloody-lutely petrified, lucky to have helpful souls around and not doing all the solo stuff!

[@NoHomerS]

Hi Sarah! I just received my SSAT renaissance set by Michael Praetorius and a basset by Stoeker. They are wonderful, everything I expect renaissance recorders to be. They are reasonable in price, too! I would like to get a sopranino and another tenor to match in the future.

[@kyleethekelt]

This was most fascinating. I didn't know most of this. Think I'll stick to the baroque - maybe the Dream down the track. Nga mihi from Aotearoa.

[@michelangelolucco7018]

I recommend also Tielman Susato, Pierre Phalese and Claude Gervaise's set of dances in consort: they are easy enough to play but there's a lot of fun and satisfaction!

[@Team_Recorder]

Thanks for the recommendation!

[@NA-zq3fz]

there is also Michael Praetorius ( a late renaissance composer) who composed good pieces playables in recorder

[@rrssna]

a=466 hz is only one of the renaissance pitches. For instance, it appears that church choirs sang at a lower pitch, something like a=408 hz, and traverse flutes and some muted cornetts where also pitched at 408, some a little higher at a=425 hz. In addition, a=440 hz seems to have been known at the period. I believe it was called tutto punto, through granted, perhaps it was less commonly used. As a practical matter, having renaissance consort recorders pitched at 440 may not be a bad choice, especially if you will also be playing with other instruments or singers. I know many string players and singers who would vehemently object to having to play or sing at a=466 hz.

[@Team_Recorder]

Great points Randy! I had a good ramble about all the different options of Renaissance pitch (there are even recorder cxonsorts tuned at 520 Hz!!!) but cut it out due to length.. but great you bring it up :)

[@rrssna]

Thank you. Back in the day when I played in a renaissance recorder quartet, we play on the Moeck consort recorders (I am proud to say we played very in tune!) but we would have LOVED to have had a Peter van der Poel consort.

[@frankdavies5182]

Hi Sarah, I enjoyed your renaissance recorder video. On renaissance recorder techniques I one saw something by Cardanus that was subtle but I've never found his text on playing the recorder in English. If you ever did something on that perhaps combined with Ganassi's advice it would be great.

[@andersonsilvapi]

I cant believe Ill arrive in Amsterdam on 1st november! 😢😢 loved the video!

[@TheCatGoesRawrMusik]

Hearing about all these tunings makes me feel... a lot of pain... all that rethinking xD

[@christophertsiliacos8958]

Hey Sarah - As you stated 00:48 "The recorder, as an instrument, has been around for centuries..." Other similar instruments, such as the full chromatic flutophone has been around only since 1943. Along with all my other musical instruments (to include the venerable recorder), the nascent flutophone also works for me 13:31. Happy recorder playing. 😉 ♫

[@lshin80]

Thanks! I'll add Italian subtitles next weekend. You put so much effort into your videos, so I think it's a good thing they may reach as much people as possible! :)

[@Team_Recorder]

Thanks Luca, that would be awesome!

[@theolodger]

I'll correct the English ones

[@MoiraLAbbate]

Bravo, Luca :-) Sarah, I can add Brazilian Portuguese subtitles, if you like.

[@headfulloftrees4071]

Wait, we can add subtitles? I'll do German ones if I can find the time!

[@MoiraLAbbate]

Yes, headfulloftrees :-) you have to click on the gear and choose "add subtitles". But it is available only on desktop version.

[@kineiya]

Love your video's. Thank you again for music suggestions on FB. My alto is an angel 3 piece renaissance with baroque fingering by peripole.

[@ricardomartuzzo5076]

Fantastic, thanks !!!!

[@ethintempleton6898]

Great video!! Could you please make another video like this but in the EWI and/or other electronic wind instruments? Once again, Awesome video

[@hakneyj]

Really useful as I am thinking of buying an Adri's Dream. Tried a second hand one but it just didn't have any volume. I will wait for a better one to come along. Best wishes.

[@mccypr]

Thanks again! 😎🌞✌️🎻

[@michaelayers4174]

Thank you, very interesting.

[@tiborkovacs5317]

Just got a Ferris Fr200 recorder its a cheap plastic but shaped like a renaissance one & its a 2 piece as well sounds OK about £7-£10 great vids thanks.

[@naiman4535]

I suppose that it would be possible to make a Recorder that was a hybrid between Renaissance and Baroque, in which it was exactly in the middle regarding all its vital dimensions and specifications. For example, you said that a Renaissance Recorder was not as tapered in its bore as a Baroque Recorder - well in the hybrid, the degree of tapering of the bore would be at the point exactly midway between the tapering of the Renaissance and the Baroque recorders.

[@glebedigital4654]

Another great resource is the Cancionero de Palacio, I'm having so much fun working through that enormous tome with my Mollenhauer Dream & cheapo Yamaha Alto. :D

[@Team_Recorder]

Ahh great tip!

[@jendubay3782]

I know this is an old comment, but I’ve been looking for this book. All I can find are CDs. Can you link me where you got it?

[@glebedigital4654]

@@jendubay3782 This is the edition I have, in two volumes: www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01K3JKHPU?condition=new&tag=bookfinder-test-b2-20 but may be hard to find now.

[@glebedigital4654]

ooh no, here you go! www.amazon.co.uk/Cancionero-Palacio-XV-XVI-sec-2015-12-05/dp/B01FIZXNT6/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&qid=1602614231&refinements=p_27%3AFabio+Anti&s=books&sr=1-9&text=Fabio+Anti

[@agusnunez4077]

Me puedes decir las medidas de esa flauta dulce renacentista alto.afinada en sol.

[@rubenmsk]

sarah please make a review of the yamaha yrf-21 the recorder fife pleeeease pleeeease!!

[@harkelan]

So useful!! But i cant find the alto recorder on plastic you show ;-;

[@steennordberg-nielsen3012]

I have problms hitting high D on my brand new Dream Alto. What to do?

[@idraote]

I love Renaissance music, it is so... carefree and lively. That said, I'm still a beginner and I think I'll leave the authentic Renaissance recorders to the professionals... and or to my future self, when I am a good recorder player. After all, you said that Palestrina is not going to hurt me, is he? ;)

[@austenstaley8526]

I'm 9 yrs old just got mine today from school

[@blapydodo]

Same

[@rhythmayhem]

@Ty From State Farm yo i can do that

[@rodneytrotter8436]

Your 15

[@gabrielvieira9832]

What you play in 4:06 to make comparission is a scale or a song?

[@fornamnefternamn4869]

I thought about buying a renaissance recorder since I heard they are louder. Should suit my purpose best. But now two seller has told me they are not at all as loud as modern recorder. How should I think about this? Are they or are they not louder? The one you demonstrate sounds louder. Are there some models that are quieter?

[@Zsaxman60]

What about vibrato? Some people tell me not to use it for recorder playing. What is the correct performance practice?

[@willemkossen]

Thanks!

[@Aussiejayai]

Very useful videos. Congratulations. I've got a question. When I play my wooden flutes they get blocked with the condensation very easily,specially the soprano. I remember when I used to study that my teacher put some kind of liquid in the recorders before the concerts to avoid it. Years after I left the classes I still can not find that stuff. What do you do?

[@mouseketeery]

No idea if this is of any use now (2 years later!), but it's Anticondens that you're talking about. Mollenhauer and Moeck sell it - it's basically water, a drop of detergent plus preservative to stop it going off. Warm your recorder properly before playing and use Anticondens if necessary.

[@nostalgiakarlk.f.7386]

Where do you get renaissance recorders?

[@NA-zq3fz]

I have a question, is the playing without the double holes really difficult to learn in the renaissance recorder if whe played in a modern recorder before ? (sorry for my bad english) ?

[@kineiya]

Can you please answer my question. I'm completely confused....I just bought a Angel Renaissance alto recorder PB6250 and the bottom hole has a large and small hole like a baroque recorder...so how would I play it?

[@MariaGavryushina]

Is playing well-sound semitones (C# and D#) on one-hole soprano Adri's Dream possible? Does it make sense to learn how to half cover these holes, or will they be weak, out of tune and slowly taking notes always? I wrongly ordered this recorder instead of a double-hole and am thinking now what my options are...

[@marelisebrink8727]

I wish with my whole heart I could have been in Amsterdam this weekend.. but considering that I live in South Africa that’s a bit difficult

[@richardthomas8267]

Thank you, Sarah, a lovely introduction to Renaissance recorders. Would it be possible to turn off the 'auto' recording level on your camera and set the level manually in future? This would prevent the dynamics from being squashed flat and allow the nuances of your instruments' timbres to be reproduced more faithfully.

[@Team_Recorder]

Good tip!

[@AlainNaigeon]

Not crazy difficult ? Just have a look at the tenor part of "Ecce quam bonum" ! The harmony of Renaissance music is rather simple when compared to later periods of time. For that reason, I guess, its rhythms are often rather tricky (syncopes, changing binary to ternary and back, hemioles).

[@lucashoffses9019]

In terms of acoustic properties, what are the differences between a conical recorder and a cyllindrical one?

[@AlainNaigeon]

Conical bore produces more harmonics ; notes sound more "colored" and the instrument has a wider upper range. OTH with a cylindrical bore the lower notes sound great (louder too).

[@yuridanylko]

How does tuning work on a recorder?

[@RobertHorton1975]

Silly question: With recorders pitched in different keys (i.e. beyond the C and F that we all know) are you learning new fingerings for each instrument or are any played as transposing instruments?

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

Robert Horton - sorry it's a bit of a late reply, but do you mean instruments such as an Alto in A, or a Voice Flute in D? If you are, then I guess it depends who you are playing with and what kind of music you play. For example, if you have a set of Renaissance recorders pitched a semitone higher than modern pitch with A at 466 or there about, then no need to transpose, but if you are playing an Alto in A then you might need to transpose to fit in with others as the lowest note will be an A instead of an F.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Sarah Jeffery / Team Recorder The renaissance recorders are actually pitched in Sharp Keys so it's C#, F#, C#, F#. The Renaissance Alto recorder is not really an F Alto Recorder, it's an F# Alto Recorder which I find great for Guns and Roses Music.

[@natheniel]

At the renaissance period, all of music is just... tuned higher then modern convention, around a semi tonehigher then modern pitch. The current A = 440 Hz pitch standard is a 20th century invention. Btw baroque pitch is around 1 semitone lower. Making recorders to be tuned in C# (Renaissance pitch), C (modern pitch) and B (baroque pitch), if you like to put it that way. www.dolmetsch.com/historyofpitch.htm

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@natheniel Yeah we know that one already & having recorders in all 12 Keys & every Octave could be great for song covers. Say does anyone love song covers?

[@naiman4535]

What was really wierd, and what I didn't expect, was how much the Renaissance Recorder sounded like a clarinet or saxophone. Why is that?

[@michelangelolucco7018]

The fingering at 8:54 is the same of the crumhorn.

[@renuu5199]

I would really want to visit the festival and get a shirt, but I get visited by my relatives for my birthday :( But I hope you all will have fun being there :)

[@phyllischan3696]

Dear Sarah, sorry for my poor English. I can’t get what you said in the video that for the less advance tunes and ballads, we can look for ?????What is the name you mentioned? Thanks you.

[@olgaidzhilova42]

I think it was "songs and ballads from the Tudor period"

[@esequiel937]

❤❤❤

[@kHrL1559]

Is it ok if I'm a beginner that wants to buy his first soprano recorder and I choose to buy the Renaissance dream recorder? It sounds so beautiful but I don't know if it's better to learn in a baroque (regular) one first and then passing to the other. Please help :x Also, thanks for your videos. They're really helpful!

[@momida1559]

Sarah recommends it too for her young students, because of the sound and the big, easy-to-find holes. I have one too, and I really love it. But when it comes to overblowing, it's much easier on a baroque - style recorder. (Especially on my dream soprano, the alto gets the "lower" high notes rather easy too.) I've read of many recorder players that made the same experience, it must have to do with the construction, the wide bore.

[@Tom-kt8lu]

Oh for the days of Fred Morgan and Friedrich von Hühne.

[@hugojandro5267]

Do you have a Eagle recorder? And if so, is It worth to buy one? THX and pretty t-shirts

[@trueblueyou6114]

You are so damn charming!!!

[@Dom2Wan]

Quick question, Sarah, that scrunchy that you unhook at 3:24, is that to prevent the key from sticking to the 'down' position?

[@tomm54321]

+Dominic Wan No, it's a hair band that Sarah uses to support the weight of the instrument, see #4 in her "Top 10 Recorder Hacks!" video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWOcZWeNmJeJlZY

[@Dom2Wan]

Tom M Thanks Tom.

[@brbrofsvl]

You mentioned the Dream recorder has the full Baroque range... does that mean at least two and a half octaves?

[@Team_Recorder]

yep, and more ;)

[@wulf3345]

Iwould like to buy a consort of renaissance recorders. I currently have an SAT from Moeck (the old style ones) and B from Martin Skowronek. Most of the builders now have waiting lists years long. Do you know of a maker that can deliver a set in less than a year? Also your recommendations on tuning (even vs meantone).

[@njackson8756]

Henri Gohin

[@florianburger8026]

Hi. Thx a lot for your videos, u cannot imagine how proud I am of you. I play by hobby. I started with galician bagpipes, and went to the irish flutes and the fantastic world of the recorders. Despite being an engineer, I keep trying to professionalize myself by my own in the music (dont know why, it comes from my heart). One day when I have time to write I'll share my complete story, the tears and smiles etc... I'd like to ask you to talk about the famous 'circular breathing'. Can u do this? I know you can ahah(arent u a super human?). Needind help. Thx a lot

[@tomm54321]

Watch Sarah's video "How to Learn Circular Breathing": kzbin.info/www/bejne/aovcdqOratekjpI

[@florianburger8026]

Tom M thx a lot! I didnt know that she had done this already!

[@sr_andaluz6662]

I can't buy your t-shirts 😭, but, anyway, a very good video, as always!

[@klausmader-amort518]

🤗❤️

[@MoiraLAbbate]

Hi, Sarah :-) I tried to translate to Brazilian Portuguese a year ago, but the video is too long... I just sent the part I made.

[@WedgeOfSpite]

So the Oscar winning composer of the most watched (and pirated) TV show right now says that the instrument he used was a Baroque Recorder. But watching this KZbin, it seems like the Renaissance Recorder was the one he used for The Mandalorian soundtrack. What do YOU think?

[@VitalijKaramakov]

kynsekers are awesome

[@keithstarkey5584]

At 4:00, what is the recorder she's playing? Boy, what a sweet, sweet sound!

[@orirune3079]

Not sure what it is, but she has made videos on her collection so you could probably find out there!

[@florentvauxion3664]

Hello Sarah, I thank you a lot for all your videos, because in France in my town the is almost nothing for the recorder players, above all like me : begginer. I have a main question for you : how can we wake up a recorder ( a wooden soprano) that had not been played for many years? My problem is, all the notes are great except the D and above the C and C sharp at the bottom of the recorder (the two last holes). It's sounds like a kitty very hungry... Thank you very much ; I play this recorder every day, maybe one day it will have a great tone and no problem anymore...

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

Florent Vauxion I'm not Sarah but I hope you don't mind me responding to your question. Firstly, is it a wooden recorder, and what make/model is it? I believe that wooden recorders can require playing in again after being left unplayed for a while. The info that came with my Moeck Rottenburgh, for a new recorder, was as follows: first week 5 mins a day, week 2 ,10 mins a day, week 3,15 mins, week 4, 30 mins, week 5, 40 mins and week 6, 60 mins - I doubt an old recorder would need this much caution, but it gives you an idea. Also you should avoid the really high notes at first. You could also try removing the block and cleaning and oiling the recorder - Sarah has done an excellent video on this which gave me the confidence to do all of my Moecks - they all play/sound better now!! If it still plays badly it could need re-voicing - if it's a really cheap one it may not be worth it - I've had cheap recorders where the 2 lowest notes were so out of tune it wasn't playable - but haven't had the issue with the high notes. You say you are a beginner - it could just be your inexperience - it takes a lot of skill to get those high notes sounding good. I wish you luck and welcome you to the world of recorder players.

[@florentvauxion3664]

Hello honeychurchgipsy6 and thank you for your answer!!! The trademark is Sebim but I think it's a cheap or almost cheap one. It's a bit better than yesterday (I have it since two days), so I think that I can hope a nicer tone. I'm glad for your invitation into the world of the recorder!!

[@theolodger]

Where can I get a renaissance recorder?

[@pearspeedruns]

Theophilos Godfrey she posted links in the description

[@greengreen4251]

0:14 it's SNOW WHITE

[@davidcampelo]

I want a t-shit!!!!!!!!! :D But I don't live in the NL anymore, please let me know how I can order it! :) #TeamRecorder

[@olgaidzhilova42]

here team-recorder.myshopify.com/

[@wormwood7436]

T-What!?

[@harrisonmin5190]

A T SHIRT!!!!!!!!

[@elyzsabethahne2116]

But...I'm afraid of the ghost of Palestrina!

[@TheTonehound]

Stairway to heaven brought me here. And what do I find? An angel.

[@qwaqwa1960]

For some reason, the recorder is the only baroque instrument I don't like, but I *do* like the renaissance version!

[@xh7385]

You look a little bit like Anne Hathaway. Have anyone mentioned you about this?