Getting The Best From Tonex - Mastering Input Trim

[@Atlantean-1980]

I use the software version myself, this is a very useful video Studio rats:) My trim i set via my Roland rubix interface, i cut the input back to -6db and most of my amp sims sound sweet like that. and then adjust inside the software. for any amp sim users out there, say DSP users, your input on the line in on your usb interface is meant to be around -12db for the sim to sound like its meant to ect. they all differ, so play about with it ect.

[@j1c9son]

So basically the pedal already have an algorithm that can measure the input level, then it would be awesome if they release an update that comes with an auto input trim mode based on the pickup impedance and the guitarist playing, from soft playing to hard playing. Combined with the "amp dinamics" it would sound more like a real amp.

[@EngineMusicProductions]

Bardzo dobra myśl i wydaje się być do osiągnięcia, przy odpowiednim nacisku społeczności... 💪😎

[@mrquarkful]

Would kind of defeats the purpose of using different guitars.

[@j1c9son]

@@mrquarkful It would not. What it's saturating or being less than it should be it's the input signal before the amp and fxs on the chain.When it's about input gain there's a sweet spot for single coil pickups and a sweet spot for high gain pickups, based on impedance and playing dynamics it's possible to calculate that. For example Bias FX come with a guitar profile, that adjusts all input settings based on your guitar pickups, model and playing dynamics.

[@pjmtry7]

Studio Rats always the best advice! Stay Awesome!

[@TheStudioRats]

Cheers!

[@shalomshalom735]

awesome video. Please make more of ToneX and ToneX One . Thanks so much Paul

[@shaharbar]

Perfect video Paul, thanks for sharing. Wish input trim could be applied per preset (i.e. Tele and LP version of the preset). The compressor hack achieves this, but requires an extra pedal.

[@TheStudioRats]

@@shaharbar I agree I think that’s a great way to do this. Also it would be helpful to have an auto input gain.cheers Mr Bar.

[@Adventuresingearland]

Finally, the definitive answer! Nice compressor hack as well.

[@TheStudioRats]

cheers gregoor

[@EricMakingWaves]

Not to nit pick, but I can definitely hear the transients clipping even on the Tele at +6dB. I think IK just gave the ToneX pedal wonky parameters. If you’re running any kind of gain/boost pedals in front, at +8 you’re going to be clipping no matter what. Ignoring the “low-ok-hi” meter, and just go off clean sounds, I think between +3 and +5 are a better starting point. You can always add more gain and volume inside the pedal after the converters with no down side at all.

[@NO-TALK-GuitarPlugin]

I know it’s not the point but wow that sounds good. ToneX is incredibly pleasing to play and listen…!

[@jjbs58]

Great video paul you kept me with a Tonex1 a few extra days. Im a IR-2 guy but wanna give the Tonex stuff a try,.. and whenever a manufacturer packs so much stuff in a small device with a minimum amount of labeled buttons most folks have no patience to figure it all out.. you did a great job here so taking your video in a little different view, I use my HX1 in the place of your compressor where I can easily change from one compressor to the next to see which one sounds better. Also more great info that most folks do not know is the trim input leveling on digital pedals-great stuff! SO youre doing great work here and if the IK folks are reading your comments - YO - GET PAULY a raise ! Also what Tonex setting/preset are you using playing here your tele sounds great

[@ProducerLeon24]

I love my tonex one. I’ll be doing my second gig with it tonight!

[@rickymaina]

are going direct to the FOH or are using an FRFR?

[@RobvandenBoogaard]

The input trim stuff I knew about, but that compressor tip is golden! Thanks Paul!

[@TheStudioRats]

Happy to help!

[@mrquarkful]

@@TheStudioRatsI just wonder, could the same not be achieved with the Tonex compressor (pre amp)?

[@stevieboy444]

I bought the Studio Rat's Silver Jubilee presets for my Tonex one. I switch between a clean & a dirty one. They're awesome. The only way I can think of improving my sound further is....lessons!!

[@TheStudioRats]

Glad you like them!

[@razors213]

I got their Matchbox presets the same day I bought my Tonex One. Absolute magic!

[@tommanseau6277]

Thank you for this. I've got the full size on the way. It was on sale for Prime day & too good to pass up. I am really hoping I can get the best out of it.

[@rogerr4620]

Great tip on the compressor! Thanks.

[@jwright8838]

Nice video. You also have to take into account how the gain staging was setup when the capture was made. Early on captures were being made with widely different gain staging. Some captures you could set your input trim to +6 with humbuckers and it sounded great (just like the typical IK factory stuff), while others were recommending input trims of -13 or such for their captures.

[@gravesynth]

I have the tonex software love it and just preorder the anniversary pedal can't wait keep up the awesome work

[@alessiograziani6355]

Many thanks. I find really interesting your considerations about the input trim, and I much prefer this approach to the one that keeps Input Trim fixed to 0 and acts on the Input Gain of the preset to balance output differences of different pickups. Also becasue, If I set it to 0, the input level is very low even with a P90. Many Thanks

[@TheStudioRats]

Cheers glad it helped. That whole 0db argument is so flawed I can’t believe people are trying to justify it.

[@marcohermans3207]

Nice tip Thanks. I already did this to be honest, but it's good to see that the third party capature makers give their share about this matter. Some of them say use your ears, some of them give you some numbers for the captures they make , and some of them give you nothing....Sure it all depends which guitar is being used but that's not the only thing. Because everybody is doing their own thing during capturing and there is no real "standard" it can be hard sometimes to make it a "set and forget" parameter. Your captures sound good at 8-9 db but others are way off when using them together . I hope the future brings some standarisation in the "Tonex world". Thanks for giving us your thoughts about this! Keep on rockin !

[@JohnMontanaOfficial]

Great video, as always. Could you explain where does the sound of your guitar that we are hearing is coming form? Precisely, do we hear the guitar in the room, as in Gtr > Tonex > studio monitors? Or is it a separate recording guitar > tonex > DAW and then synced with the video? Would be interesting a video on how you record your guitar on your videos. Cheers!

[@florisvanlingen]

Def Gtr > Tonex > Audio Interface > Recording in DAW.

[@TheStudioRats]

@@JohnMontanaOfficial you are hearing it plugged into an interface.

[@LaurenceRutherford]

@@TheStudioRats So is that the left/right outputs into another interface then DAW? Is there any soecific reason you don't just use the Pedal as the interface direct into the DAW?

[@RICO_SUAVE21]

Great video! That input trim applies to to other interfaces as well 👍🏾

[@aminahmed2220]

What a awesome video have a wonderful weekend Paul ❤😊

[@Dodgyguitarist]

Looking to purchase a tonex, just not sure which one yet so clueing myself up on things before I do. Another great vid Paul. Thanks

[@michaelpeacestewart]

I’m using two of these with a mosvalve power amp into Marshall 4 12s for a Fokker tribute they sound great be happy when update releases so I can take off a few pedals

[@bielartur]

Thank you, Paul!

[@TheStudioRats]

My pleasure!

[@steveliberty]

So, if you like to use a few different guitars during a set, the big ToneX is a better choice since you can change the Input Gain via MIDI when you switch guitars. The ToneX One doesn't (yet?) support MIDI, so you'd have to bend down and manually change the setting, which live is a real pain.

[@MarsNo73]

Something I don't get. I have a ToneX One. With a Gibson Les Paul I get appr. the same input trim. Close to noon. In ToneX software it tells me that's about 1.5db (global settings in Librarian). However you get 6.5db in the big pedal. I thought input trim is the same for both. How does this work?

[@jroobz]

i'd like to see IK have an auto setting in this or soft clipping limiter or something

[@chaos4316]

Recording question: I’ve used helix floor for years, and just use basic garage band for recording. Never had an issue. I love Tonex, but seriously wtf am I doing wrong 😢? When I record, playback is unprocessed/flat. No wet tone. Before anyone asks, I have: - Checked input/output for sound, and you can assume all other obvious facets. In GarageBand, tonex is set where the helix was. - settings: tonex/global set/general/usb ->DUAL. (Tried stereo too.) - operation on pedal set to interface, not live. Flashing green indicates software, not stored sounds in library. But I’ve tried both running it as a stomp, and interface to record without success. Also tried both in dual and stereo. Nothing. Surely I can’t be the only one with this problem?

[@6stringstrum]

Hi Paul, My 'problem' with this kind of pedals is that they are all snaphot players just like a tape recorder. The tone doesn't live by playing, the tone stays the same. There is no dynamic audio change in it by the way you pull your strings if you know what i mean. Yes, you can lower your distortion by putting your guitar volume down but the sound stays the same no matter how hard you hit the strings of your guitar. When you use a combination with a pedal before the snapshot player for instance the Hi Power pedal then you have dynamic audio change by the way you pull yor strings. Those snapshot pedals (Tone X Kemper etc.) are dull by nature in my opinion. I use a kemper player with a clean Laney snaphot. Before the Kemper i use the Unobtanium Raw and the Hi Power as my main amps and that sounds awesome. So the the Kemper is just a sort of station and effect pedal for me. You know what i mean?

[@josmyburgh670]

Paul, does the way the capture was done influence the optimal input trim settings? Many of the tonex packs for sale have a recommended input trim setting in the instructions. Does that have something to do with trim settings during the capture process?

[@TheStudioRats]

It shouldn’t if it’s been captured correctly, It’s not capture dependent it’s guitar dependent.

[@what1864]

so tonex is most famous for being an affordable amp capturing device , my question is do you really need to capture a certain amp to achieve say a dumbleish tone or can it be done with the eq , meaning are the tones your capturing achievable without actually capturing them ?

[@mikesmith1290]

You don’t need to capture anything to use it, but it doesn’t generate any sounds on its own. You have to load a capture into it. The app has ToneNet which you can choose any of the 35,000 Tone Models! If you’re looking for a specific amp, you can filter the list and audition them before downloading them in the app or pedal. You can further tweak them to your liking with adjustable gain, compression, reverb and eq.

[@what1864]

thank you very much ...

[@secretreleases]

The Tonex ONE sadly couldn't handle the signal coming from my preamp pedal, even with the trim all the way down. That's why I'm currently still running the cumbersome laptop setup. I wonder if the Big Box Tonex Pedal can handle more input gain. Does anyone know? Or are they the same in this regard?

[@gibs8412]

Right on, I found out the same with my compressor. What patch are you using?

[@vhtrox]

Regarding the compressor, could the same result be achieved by using the compressor in the Tonex itself set to “pre”?

[@TheStudioRats]

@@vhtrox unfortunately not, that’s post the Analog to digital converters

[@LaurenceRutherford]

Interesting video Paul. Your take is a little at odds with Jason Sadites who advocates leaving the trim at 0db for all guitars and tweaking the gain on the preset to suit. Input trim and the gain will affect the overall tone of the tone model, so guess it's ultimately down to using your ears as well? Did the early pedal firmware not have +8db boost?

[@rickymaina]

I never understood why Jason said to set at zero db..it's completely wrong...my tonex sound like shit at zero db...Use your hear and never rely blindly to what other people are saying

[@LaurenceRutherford]

@@rickymaina Yes, I think Paul's approach here seems more sensible.

[@TheStudioRats]

That’s crazy leaving it at 0dB that’s not how it is supposed to work. Cheers guys.

[@More_Guitars]

Jason is right, I too measured my input levels at 0dBu with a signal generator. Even my devices have different reference points to dBfs I ended up setting all to 0dB at the input and never change it when changing guitars like I do when usin a real amp.

[@Stringprodigy]

@@More_Guitarshe’s a fool

[@msturner79]

You preset sounds great. are the dials on the big tonex pedal set to what we are hearing in this video? You have the bass rolled all the way off it looks like.

[@TheStudioRats]

cheers!, You can ignore the controls on the TONEX. The preset has not been touched so the knobs are irrelevant.

[@timothy5974]

Thanx for another helpful video Paul, but I don’t have a Tonex yet 😢😂 have a great day !

[@TheSpiffyBiscuits]

So I’ve got an issue with my Tonex One where I’m getting digital distortion when I use any sort of pedal in front of it. Doesn’t matter where the input gain is set or how boosted (or cut) the gain pedal is. Any hints? Also the TSR AC30 capture is by far the best capture I’ve found yet. Well done!

[@TheStudioRats]

It might not be the input that’s distorting, have you tried turning down the output of tonex?

[@TheSpiffyBiscuits]

@@TheStudioRats I have now. Thanks for the quick reply! I’ve tried turning down the volume and global volume and it’s still happening. The trim light is nowhere near turning red too. I really really want to love the tonex but this is very frustrating!

[@jaaybee101]

There is an almost 10dB difference between my Strat and my Tele. I use the Boss IR200 where you can set the input level. It really messes up my gain stages. Dont know if the Strat is unusually hot or Tele is unusually weak?

[@TheStudioRats]

@@jaaybee101 10dB ???? I think you might have a problem with a guitar.

[@jaaybee101]

@TheStudioRats Perhaps something with the volume pot on the Tele.. I'll take it in for a check up. Thanks

[@clintwhite3021]

Don’t you also need to consider your boost and dirt pedals in the front end clipping the input trim? You gotta leave enough headroom for them yea? I can imagine the “it doesn’t take drives well” thought if not

[@nickpoci3645]

Yes when I set my input trim I usually go to my biggest gain stage and work backwards

[@clintwhite3021]

@@nickpoci3645thanks

[@adajay9257]

Which capture device should I go for, ToneX or Quad Cortex?

[@vomito72]

Great video! Amazing Murphy's Lab 😍 Input trim is confusing also because there are too many different opinions around Having ToneX One in the GX-100 efx loop as the amplifier , do you think it is correct to set all my guitars input on the GX-100 in a way to have the same output level at the Send? I did set ToneX input trim just once avoiding clipping and i'm changing guitar input profile on the GX-100 only

[@TheStudioRats]

@@vomito72 yeah I think that’s a great way to do it.

[@vomito72]

@@TheStudioRats thank you very much!

[@aaronpaulfrancis74]

Hi, is the gain knob the same as input trim for each capture / preset? Cause different captures from people has different input trim when captured.,

[@JimijaymesProductions]

They don't have different input trim, they are captured at different reference levels, the input trim should then be set to match this reference level. Some people tell you what that is, some don't. This goes for all modelling, the difference is there is no standard or normalisation with tonex.

[@LonePigsyAndCub]

I've read the Z-Tone Buffer Boost can also be used in front of the Tonex and other amp sims. Have you tried that?

[@tierischguttennisspielen7766]

Does it make sense to lock the Tonex in Boss Katana Gen3?

[@martinfalagario8625]

Hola mas videos de Tonex one con Boss Gx100 por favor!

[@BeniaminPopa-ui8bl]

What capture use here?

[@TheStudioRats]

Our Matchless Independence pack

[@Utube-s8m]

Paul I’m a bit late to post. I’m on the opposite timeline. Anyway, do you can do this kindve of thing with the quad? Do you remember I asked awhile ago that it sounds great on its own but I find modelers in general sound like they don’t mix in with a song that I’m playing against. You said drop the eq at the beginning and the end but I’m still not 100% happy. Thx have a good weekend. 🎸

[@TheStudioRats]

@@Utube-s8m you use exactly the same technique with quad cortex input gain. Are you’re using the presets that come with the cortex? I don’t think they’re very good.

[@Utube-s8m]

@@TheStudioRats I make my own with their captures. No IR’s because I use an actual guitar cab. It sounds fine on its own it’s when playing as I mentioned with songs. Thx for replying by the way.

[@deddiev1718]

But when we had racks in the 80’s and early 90’s some quadraverbs and delay units had a way to decrease or increase the input so it would not overload

[@TheStudioRats]

That’s what this is

[@chrisdaviesguitar]

Your tone at 7 minutes, was exceptional imho.

[@ArtsLover-m7r]

When I use Tonex software with my Audient it sound amazing, with Tonex Pedal it’s not sound very well. I think that the preamp of Tonex Pedal are not so good…

[@steveluk473]

A real amp does not have an input trim, a modern high gain Humbucker guitar will sound a certain way thru it and a low output vintage type Strat will sound a certain way..if I boost the gain of the Strat into that amp boosting the input trim it will be akin to me putting a boost pedal in front of the amp thereby changing how that guitar sounds naturally into the amp , maybe I'm missing something ... I feel the input trim should probably remain fixed and differences in volume can be compensated with the model volume parameter retaining the essence of the guitar

[@ujnhunter]

TLDW: Leave it at the Factory Setting. Ta-da!

[@michaelpeacestewart]

Auto wash and harmonized be nice add too

[@RusticSpirit]

They should have left the default setting of "0" alone...

[@themervster]

Nope you don't. Set it down low and use the gain to compensate. Like you said it's not an amp, the gain on each patch is doing the same thing setting the input level (it's not a gain like on an amp), you can set that how you want on each patch without changing the global setting. Test it your self if you want but someone has already done this in a video, both on the pedal and the software. So not taking credit for this, just highlighting it.

[@Michael-bm8hi]

What I don’t like about these ToneX and others. I enjoy my guitars every day and they are getting better every day. I don’t like playing them through equipment that’ll spend most of its lifetime as electronic waste. That’s the talk of a non giggling guitar nerd.

[@Nizodizo]

Input trim? I have been playing electric guitar for 40 years and have never seen "input trim" on any gear that I have used.

[@TheStudioRats]

I can pretty much guarantee its on 99% of any digital gear, it might not be called input trim but its there to stop digital clipping

[@user-xy8gt3tp5d]

because you’re still living with the 40-year-old gears

[@nicholasaragon4126]

This is what us engineering guys are into. If you're happy with your club and spear more power to you. Let us have our new things to learn and experiment with. I like being part of evolving tech and learning about it.

[@JimijaymesProductions]

In 40 years you've never seen a single rack unit? Nearly every rack unit has input gain controls before the ad converter. Also most high end digital pedals have them in settings in some form.