Ghost of Tsushima - Jin Betrays the Samurai Code and Becomes THE GHOST

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Video Game Sophistry is an opportunity to celebrate the creators and the artistry found in Video Games. I believe that Games are the most effective medium from experiencing another world, and another way to live. Expect to see a series of videos showcasing the narratives hidden in every game, interviews with game developers, along with our bench mark weekly podcast, Dialogue Wheel.
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Ghost of Tsushima - Jin Betrays the Samurai Code and Becomes THE GHOST
VGS - Video Game Sophistry
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[@VideoGameSophistry]

After Lord Shimura disowns Jin THIS is how that story ends....it's breathtakingly sad kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaXTpoSKmtd2fq8

[@arcticwolfclapsyou1242]

VGS - Video Game Sophistry hi

[@gamerstheater1187]

technically Jin is the one who disowned Lord Shimura

[@joops1053]

It's so poetic. Khotun Khan knew how to exploit the samurai code, so Jin exploited the mongols by not following the code.

[@EvaGreenFanPennyDreadful]

The ultimate Ghost and exploitation in my opinion is when he gets the Mongol armour in Part 3

[@kaiiheenjik1668]

It’s almost like a chess match between the khan and ghost both outsmarting each other.

[@kentinson1670]

There is no honor in war. It's kill or be killed. Jin and the Khan both understood that

[@the_infinexos]

The Mongols studied Japanese culture a bunch before the invasion, which is 90% centered around honor. By doing something as simple as throwing honor aside, Jin immediately gained the upper hand

[@billyjoe8185]

@@the_infinexos yep, and the mongols did the same for the other countries they conquered. They studied their opponents culture, morals, and way of fighting.

[@themarvelousjoe1501]

"Honor died on the beach. The Khan deserves to suffer." What a badass line.

[@Green-tt9cx]

I know

[@beam408]

"If you’re not with me, then you are my enemy" this scene reminds me of STAR WARS: Obi Wan & Anakin on Mustafar. It just shows how SW heavily inspired by Samurai Codes.

[@ryanfadh]

@@beam408 obviously mate

[@deathbykonami5487]

@@beam408 George Lucas even talked about how he based the Jedi Code off the Samurai's, especially the bit about shutting out one's emotions

[@Indigoism96]

Its even more badass with the Japanese dialogue.

[@codymathes4450]

I like how they made Khotun Khan a smart manipulator rather then a big dumb oaf.

[@jqa16]

Bruh khotun khan studied japanese language in Korea and china took all the available text talked to pirates, prisoners just to learn the culture. He was smart and cunning if that storm didn't hit tsushima on that day they would have established a mongol settlement in Saga near Osaka Kyoto the capital at that time. Of course the shogun and the emperor wouldn't want that.

[@fisthound0027]

Cody Mathes its ashame his final fight was kinda overwhelming

[@marlonestrella8105]

Which is historically inaccurate... but this is a game so lol

[@Lemuel928]

He knew from the very beginning.

[@abbynormal8702]

Khotun Khan in this game comes across as reasonable, pragmatic, charismatic and logical. A very interesting and well-written villain.

[@chilliicecream5456]

If you notice up till this point in the game, Jin never calls himself the Ghost, he only is ever referred to it by others. So when he definitively tells Shimura, “I am the Ghost” you know it’s him finally becoming what his people need.

[@tewrecks6410]

The throphy you get after this conversation is "The Ghost" its description reads "embrace your new identity." So yeah Jin in that moment fully embraced his new role.

[@jordyalmonte42]

I agree. Jin felt insulted by Yuna when she described him as a vengeful spirit. He would always feel a little insecure and uneasy when someone referred to him as the ghost. But here he fully embraced it. What a beautiful character arc

[@drunkvader]

@TunaTheNumber1Cat yup, thus, his new home is called "Tradition's End".

[@michaelkean5969]

Jin Sakai is the Asian Batman where he ceases to be his Birth name and fully embraces what he's become he is vengeance he is the Night he is the Ghost.

[@atsyrc7280]

I feel like it was after Taka died that he finally decided to embrace the ghost.

[@paatao]

"Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer"

[@matthewpawlowski5251]

Damn. Underrated comment and powerful quote. What is it from?

[@paatao]

@@matthewpawlowski5251 Mass Effect 3

[@brxnv_]

never in a million years i would've thought that this was from Mass Effect

[@mucherek]

#unexpectedMassEffect

[@erdenebaterdenebayar8715]

Primitives

[@SugarW1thC0ffee]

“I am not your son. I am the Ghost.” I gotta say that was pretty powerful. I felt so bad for his uncle.

[@huskytzu7709]

yes but i felt more bad for Jin. he's the one who has to face the truth and do all these 'dishonerable' things all the while fighting with it.

[@z0ro_62]

Its hard for both of them he knows if it continued they would demand the ghost life and jin knows he cant save anybody by following some hounor code during this war

[@lukeramos6546]

z0ro_ damn 🤔

[@lukeramos6546]

Oo boy I can’t wait to get this far in the game 🤔❤️

[@scarletthecat632]

Luke Ramos WHY DID YOU WATCH SPOILERS DAMMIT

[@lulzdragon7339]

“To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” ― Sun Tzu

[@skrttskrtt7534]

One of the golden rule

[@Eric-dt7bt]

Well that’s not an published and correct translation for “知己知彼，百战不殆” by Sun Tzu. A correct understanding of the original quote is “It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles”. But it’s definitely nothing wrong to say “to know your enemy, you must become your enemy” though, and this is also more relative to the game.

[@darkmage4648]

Jin does quote the Art of War in the game :)

[@cosmicknight4665]

Oof

[@johng1041]

A true samurai is ready to die in battle with honor. Jin: no, I will use hide and seek to kill the enemy, im a shinobi.

[@drifterxexe]

This scene is my favorite his uncle doesn't understand anymore that samurai way is not cutting it anymore this game is a masterpiece

[@ratchetexperience8379]

"The Samurai way is not cutting it anymore" ha!

[@drifterxexe]

@@ratchetexperience8379 glade somone got the joke 😉

[@jovej4455]

The funniest thing about this is the fact the one accused of not fighting like a samurai is fighting more like an actual samurai irl than the actual samurais in the game.

[@anthonyroberts7486]

@@jovej4455 you are confusing Samurai and Shinobi. Jin is fighting as a Shinobi not Samurai.

[@jovej4455]

@@anthonyroberts7486 You do know that Samurai wasn't so much a military rank or title but more of a social level? In fact, most of the stories you hear about Shinobi and such were covert samurai task with sabotage and info gathering. Samurai in actual history didn't turn their nose to the likes of dirty tactics. The only true honor they had were to their masters and as long as that master survives and the task given to them were complete, it didn't matter what tactics they used. There's actually a strategy with samurai called Hidden Grass or something along the lines. The strategy involved a samurai luring their target to a one-on-one duel while an archer or Tanegashima would remain hidden and struck while the target's guard was down. The Bushido code was a way of life the Samurai followed but not one of the core values dictated how a Samurai fights in battle or what forbids them from using dirty tactics. In fact, the very first value of the Bushido says this: "Rectitude is one’s power to decide upon a course of conduct in accordance with reason, without wavering; to die when to die is right, to strike when to strike is right." This means you strike at every opportunity that is given to you at the right time and instance. You fight when it is needed to fight. And when you fight, you must see it through without wavering, regardless of what tactics you used. If you want more information about the misconception of the Samurai and stuff, I suggest watching Metatron. He knows the Japanese culture really well and without bias.

[@solarprophet5439]

Someone who uses underhanded tactics to protect his people has far more honor than one who would let them all die for the sake of staying true to some arbitrary 'code'. There is no honor in war.

[@dutch148]

According to what you said, it is ok to kill and pillage innocent people in the name of war

[@locoartsuu9607]

@@dutch148 who the heck said that? Jin was fighting mongols and traitors, not "innocents".

[@jondaan9194]

i agree with you

[@deathbykonami5487]

different time, bud. The European knights were the same way. If you look your enemy in the eye as you strike them down, you were considered an honorable warrior. This was one of the main reasons Japan had more ronin than actual samurai: the samurai were too loyal to the shogun and cared more for they'd appear in his eyes. The ronin, the ones who weren't thieves and brigands, they saw the bigger picture and did what needed to be done. That's how Tokugawa Alliance brought down Nobunaga in the 1590s, and how the Imperialists chased out the Shogunate during the Meiji Revolution.

[@Nxrreshh_]

💯

[@fiel81]

"You have no honor" -lord shimura "And you are a slave to it" -Jin

[@shadowninja1059]

Underrated quote

[@ProboscusMonke]

What really got me about that scene is, it's the first time I saw Jin break his blank face, for the exception of Taka's murder. But seeing him look over at Lord Shimura with that look of sadness or regret, I can't tell, it broke my heart

[@mickeymouse6079]

I replayed the entire game to hear that quote again.

[@jairocatalo1064]

Legit gave me chills

[@samuelbanta4279]

@Jaeger19Ultima “And you are acting like the enemy.” “I did what I had to, for them.”

[@DOT107]

Notice how Ryuzo threw his Scabbard away before the fight. The act of discarding the Scabbard is a symbol of accepting death especially for Samurai's of the era. Signifying they won't live to sheath their sword again.

[@tonertonki]

Uhmmmm, no, during the battle he has his scabbard again. LOL

[@DOT107]

@@tonertonki that's just a gameplay overview lol the cutscene kinda makes him drop it. Kinda like in DMC, almost all the Cutscene are canon except for the gameplay.

[@gracecalis5421]

You see that again in the final battle. (Spoilers) Jin and Shimura both discard their scabbards before duelling.

[@friccle_]

It happens at the v e r y end too

[@haydenhidey8698]

Wonder why he knew Jin would beat him. This is one nitpick I have with ancient Samurai meanings. It almost seems like u don’t believe in yourself to beat your enemy and it doesn’t make you feel focused and determined to win. You can say he knew because this is a video game duh but still how would he know

[@JackSpackProductions]

The “I am not your son” line is the saddest moment in the game for me. Even though I didn’t agree with Shimura, the heartbreak he experiences by his love for Jin conflicting with his values makes me really empathize with him.

[@RYAN_4_]

Yeah man, when they split up like that it really hurt. Like when Lord Shimura’s eyes were watery leading up to where he slapped Jin. You can tell he instantly regretted it and was very sad while they talked.

[@EricWulfe]

Since Jin's father died, Shimura had seen him as if he was his own son

[@rishovthegamer93]

It's true, afterall he is his nephew

[@shintaro797]

I literally just played that part and my heart sank instantly. Sorry Shimura but I'm on Jin's side. While he knows what he's doing is wrong and dishonerable.....WHAT CHOICE DOES HE HAVE?!

[@findme-1036]

Ikr? Bruh i almost cried at that part.

[@antoniomarchese4293]

I respect Jin more than any other samurai. For a samurai is natural to sacrifice his life in battle, but sacrifice your honor to save your people? That's actually the bravest shit a samurai could do. Jin embraced the pain and lost everything in order to save his people, and i will bow to that. Sticking to your code while sending soldiers to certain death and watching your own people burn? That, to me, is the real lack of honor

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

I agree he want to save his home and his people than the code the story is well done than TLOU 2

[@ahmedelrify4677]

TIMMEH! Who? I’ve never heard of this game.

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

@@ahmedelrify4677 that game is already forgotten and got sliced to the head by Jin and stick it on a spike bamboo and warn Naughty Dog this will be their faith

[@ahmedelrify4677]

TIMMEH! Jin slices their butt cheeks upfront. SLICING BUTT CHEEKS UPFRONT! Now how is that possible

[@calvintan8877]

@@ahmedelrify4677 it is a golf simulation game.

[@r520jr8]

Jin’s actor is incredible. His line delivery and the facial expressions. He’s what makes Jin great

[@angelaalvina6434]

EXACTLY

[@bakolevente1149]

Facial expressions?

[@bakolevente1149]

I thought it was cgi? Unless im wrong of course..

[@r520jr8]

@@bakolevente1149 I believe it’s mo-capped

[@melosivitch]

@@bakolevente1149 it’s motion capture so the actor is doing the faces which is represented by the character in post production

[@richardwoods1107]

"You either die a samurai, or live long enough to see yourself become the ghost"

[@zuziqamza2076]

Underrated comment so truu

[@ghostofdeath663]

Fuck off with this overused pretentious quote

[@deviljho4260]

ghost of death “you either like a quote, or live long enough to see yourself become to hate it”

[@ghostofdeath663]

@@deviljho4260 🙄🖕

[@ghostofdeath663]

@Skid Skid yes

[@Gab98Spyro]

He became the Ghost at Komatsu, realized it at Yarikawa, accepted it at Castle Shimura.

[@shydreameress264]

nice

[@killahreefa1388]

“Those who break the rules are considered scum, but those who abandoned their comrades are worst than scum” -kakashi

[@emmanuelc316]

Obito*

[@samsondhenrevb._9-barium496]

@@emmanuelc316 also kakashi

[@josh6567]

Those are words of obito. Not kakashi's.

[@monkee1271]

Jin sakai is not a scum he sacrificed his honor in order to save his people being a samurai was not an option anymore.

[@rememberthatyoumustdie]

@@monkee1271 yeah we said that...

[@LordJaric]

Jin would never sell out an ally to save his own skin. Especially Yuna.

[@jbarral6509]

Yes of what his uncle told him to renounce the Ghost and blame it on yuna that is the most dishonorable thing to do this is why its about class.

[@user-ko5ul7yi1x]

And look what his uncle did: Sold his own nephew. Slave to honor.

[@AKHILPOKLE]

"This is not our way" then goes on to say "blame it on her".

[@lawrencelatrelljacksonmckn2932]

🤣 straight Savage

[@Nonamearisto]

He's desperate to protect Jin. It's not right to blame her for what he did, but you can see why he tried to do it.

[@miscellaneous9506]

He’d rather her head than his nephew’s...

[@deathbykonami5487]

technically Yuna was the one that led Jin down the path to becoming the Ghost. During the first mission with her when Jin first assassinates a mongel soldier like a thief

[@miscellaneous9506]

Death by Konami Exactly, Jin even questioned her and refused!

[@xxgamingbest5865]

"I trained you to fight with honor!" "Honor died on the beach."

[@hanzzoezekiel]

"The Khan deserves to SUFFER!"

[@october3229]

@@hanzzoezekiel "you are ruled by your emotions"

[@donthunder5288]

“I sacrificed everything I knew to save our people”

[@bradenjoy2735]

“I gave them hope!” “You did nothing!”

[@ridhohabibillah4701]

S L A P

[@clearlydc]

12:51 This is a powerful scene, you could see that Shimura REALLY cares about Jin, he hesitated when he was about to burn the paper, Shimura took care of Jin like he was his own son. Letting that paper go, was like letting go his own son.

[@tano1670]

That sht hits right in the feelings

[@clearlydc]

@@tano1670 yeah

[@maning04]

He wanted to adopt him to be his heir. But yeah I sympathise with the uncle

[@michaelphillips7207]

What was the paper?

[@clearlydc]

@@michaelphillips7207 if im not mistaken, the uncle wants to adopt jin. He wants jin to become his heir, and that paper is some sort of "adoption paper" or whatever. Im not entirely sure tho

[@thedarkknight727]

“Life’s hardest choices are those who make you question your own moral code” -Shay Patrick Cormac

[@justvincent2083]

"I make my own luck" -Shay Patrick Cormac

[@synical_zero0003]

Assassin's Creed Rogue, another goated video game

[@frankuraku5622]

Funny that AC Valhalla tried becoming GoT but it became another corporate RPG wannabe that's trying it's best to coat itself as a game made for the fans.

[@samuelbanta4279]

“History may brand me a trader, rebel, or renegade. What matter is that I followed my own creed.”

[@themadas]

@@frankuraku5622 I agree on the first part, but Valhalla's global story is very underated, Eivor's internal struggle and ending twist that was done great

[@onehappyboi6811]

Shimura: NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DO THAT THAT'S NOT HONORABLE!!!! Jin: haha poison go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[@Taka12G]

This is striker 3-1 good copy, strike inbound.

[@jordanhann3637]

He.... He can't do that!! SHOOT him... Or something!!

[@SirMemesAlot71]

Elektrolyfe poison to gurgle gurgle

[@caesarthemonkey2488]

😐

[@skrttskrtt7534]

Lol ahhaha

[@HanzoIRL]

Doing the Yuriko mission really puts into perspective on how Jin's father would have done the same that thing that Jin does.

[@andrewmarkus484]

What do you mean?

[@dragonquest8ftw1]

@@andrewmarkus484 If I recall correctly, Yuriko explains that bandits were raiding a graveyard near the Sakai residence, insead of fighting them head on, Jin's father coated his armour in animal blood and guts and charged at them howling like a demon which wouldn't really be considered honourable and instilled fear in his enemies as he slew them mercilessly, something Shimura did not approve of. When you look at the sakai armour compared to the other battle-style we get in the game, it has a more demonic look meant to instill fear, even the mask has a sinister smile about it.

[@atsyrc7280]

Yuriko mentioned that Jin's dad had an imagination as well so i think he would approve of what Jin was doing even with the poison thing.. All I can imagine is Jin's dad and the uncle having a conversation about that too. Jin's dad: Why not use poison? Shimura: THAT'S NOT THE WAY OF THE SAMURAI!! Jin's dad: I know, but...poison! :D

[@Pluvillion]

For all we know, Kazumasa could have been a Ghost himself but chose to hide it so he won't get labeled as someone trying to break the code of honor. He would definitely agree with what Jin is doing now. Heck, he could probably go like: "do you want to add poison at the tip of that explosive arrow? I can help with that."

[@the_infinexos]

@@Pluvillion I don't think so. The fight that Kazumasa died in would have ended differently, if he fought like the Ghost. Instead he was telling his son to help him while trying to crawl away from his death

[@MidnightKingL]

Uncle goes on and on about honor and integrity but is more then happy to put the woman who's been risking her life to help on the chopping block. Jin's right, honor really did die on that beach.

[@itzmrinyy7484]

Shimura wanted Jin as a son, and much like how Jin would sacrifice honor to save his people, Shimura would sacrifice Yuna to have Jin

[@FSUSean2112]

from my thinking jin was right and shimura was just thinking brainlessly on, dont worry the soldiers are expendable, or acting like it, i like that jin took the role of the ghost and its awesome, of course its a new way of fighting and its more aggressive but hey we wanna save our home ppl and since the khan killed our ppl and installed fear into us, now the ghost will install fear into the khan. THE KHAN WILL FEAR THE GHOST.

[@tonytan5945]

Shimura: "You are ruled by your emotion." *Proceeds to backhand his nephew out of emotion*

[@nessmess500]

No man it's perfect

[@OneEyedCloud01]

It shows how much Shimura is hurt

[@ppprenxx]

classic asian parent

[@liquidsword601]

@@OneEyedCloud01 And it shows how’s he’s a hypocrite. He said earlier that he was going to mount the Khan’s head on a pike outside his castle, but when Jin does/says something like that, it’s “dishonorable.”

[@silverblade357]

@@liquidsword601 Shimura shows even more of this hypocrisy when he wants to throw Yuna under the bus to cover for Jin. For all his talk of honor, he'd readily betray an ally who saved his nephew and has fought loyally.

[@thepillowhead2453]

Whoever voiced Jin is such a good voice actor. Srsly when he’s scholding Ryuzo.

[@revis0nedrelived830]

It's Sekiro (MC)

[@Niffler77]

DAISUKE TSUJI 😊

[@IsaiahWong8]

Daisuke Tsuji is also the voice actor & face model

[@iscream1080]

Isaiah Wong the Japanese dub was absolute shit. For the first time the English dub was better.

[@justadude7598]

@@iscream1080 Lol the actual game IS in English.

[@TheNewFlutist]

If Lord Shimura is to be considered an antagonist in this game, he's one of the most sympathetic antagonists in a video game that I've ever seen. He loves Jin SO MUCH, a true love, but it consumed him in a jealous way that he couldn't let Jin go. And as this love is developed further into the story, it's just more and more tragic... You really can't hate Shimura even though he does very wrong things, in ways worse than Jin. I think that's what makes this story work so well, this contemplation of 2 opposing sides, very flawed. To be true to oneself, but at what cost?

[@pitpat6319]

"Jealous way"? I've never caught that actually. Please do elaborate.

[@TheNewFlutist]

@@pitpat6319 I mean like Shimura wouldn't give Jin an option, to choose sonship or not. He was willing to throw Yuna's life away to make it work. The subtext of a lot of those interactions right before show Jin's hesitation at the idea, while flattered. Jin had always wanted it up to that point, but then he changed. Yuna became dear to him, and Taka, and all the common people. And Shimura clearly could see that another desire was replacing him in Jin's heart, and he was not going to have it. What a tragedy though, I just can't hate Shimura for it.

[@pitpat6319]

@@TheNewFlutist Ohhhhh, jealous of YUNA (and friends). I thought you meant like Shimura was jealous of Sr. Lord Sakai for having an heir or something! Makes sense

[@elliottblair31]

You explained it in the dumbest way possible. He was pissed that Jin was doing things that would bring the Shoguns law down on him, not fucking jealousy 🤣. Shimura wanted to protect his nephew like he vowed and make him head of the clan. People keep trying to make the plot deeper than it is!

[@Evin07]

@@elliottblair31 Agreed. It would also make Shimura a giant hypocrite with the line "you are ruled by your emotions". The Shogun sent more samurai to follow Shimura honorably into battle, only to witness Shimura's right hand and heir openly defy him and act just as dishonorable as the enemy. While Jin's way may have proved effective, it was unthinkable for a samurai, destroyed his family's legacy, was a death sentence for he and his uncle.

[@senpapi197]

I sacrificed everything I knew to save my people. I gave them hope. You did nothing. This line is just so good

[@jj_grabes]

And he’s not wrong. Shimura sent Jin running across all of Tsushima and back again to assemble their allies to progress in the campaign. While he just…well, I don’t know what he did.

[@senpapi197]

@@jj_grabes and a shill to the samurai code too

[@sydneyzenigami]

I expected good graphics only, but the epic story is blowing my mind. This game is sooo good.

[@imamazing4333]

Have you finished yet the ending was really good too

[@xerenzank4786]

@@ddist0rtt yeah the trailers didn't do the game justice for gameplay but it's good and a bit satisfying.

[@AlexSanchez-tj4ph]

@Teressa Dy That game doesn't deserve to mentioned in the same breath as Ghost of tsushima

[@kingsley2837]

@@AlexSanchez-tj4ph I really want Ghost of Tsushima to win GOTY, it delivered what TLOU2 failed to do, but these biased critics will favor Last of Us 2 more which is pathetic

[@damondgreen2239]

Teressa Dy That game doesn’t deserve to even be a contender for GOTY.

[@DMejia-ep6rm]

Funny thing is the Samurai actually started using guns, cannons, rockets, and more modernized tactics during the Sengoku Jidai period instead of only throwing out hopeless Banzai charges without any strategy whatsoever. Not to mention Shogunates such as the Tokugawa actually incorporating ninjas into their armies and military societies. So Jin in this case may actually be the first to actually wake up the Samurai and adjust to the constant advancements in technology used by outside forces such as the Mongols. Either way, this game was a definite MASTERPIECE

[@ryanhowe6543]

Maybe for a sequel

[@litmus7325]

Samurai didn't use firearms until the 16th century. Technically the armor isn't close to period correct, and samurai used bows primarily over swords back then. Still though, the artistic license this game took was for all the right reasons and I can't put it down

[@iamkaed1k]

@@litmus7325 0 firearms in the 1500’s

[@Edax_Royeaux]

It's about caste. Even if Samurai use Ninja, Samurai aren't supposed to act like Ninja.

[@benjaminparent4115]

That's because The samurai Honor code is like the chivalry code, it wasn't really followed in its more "honorable" form, and evolved with time. When push come to shove strategy often win. Uesugi Kenshin defeated Oda Nobunaga in battle by luring his troop across a river, and opening a floodgate, to drowned and pin the vanguard against a river. And he was considered a military genius and an honorable men, and he had an army mainly composed of samurais compared to Oda which used Ashigaru more than Samurai.

[@predetor911]

I love how the Ghost armor has the wakizashi sword on the back symbolising the birth of the first Ninja.

[@TheGamerClown]

Oh that's why they decided to make it three swords instead of just two like for the other outfits? It looked weird to me

[@vansfreshhunta9050]

Yeah I think it threw off the ghost armor a bit imo

[@dummy.phat_womprat]

I wish they could delve into that little more

[@aleemizcool3654]

At first I thought it was his katana placed on his back instead of the waist, always wondered what the purpose of it was since it was never used and just there lol

[@jj_grabes]

Really? I always assumed it was there as a sort of offhand weapon (I did some extremely light research into the weapon’s usage). Still cool either way. It makes me like the Ghost Armor even more than I do and it’s already my favorite armor in the game.

[@Green-tt9cx]

"I'm the Ghost." I waiting he said this line that shown he accepted his role.

[@gakclan3774]

He did.. When he beats lord shimura on the final fight and spare him

[@joshuadebosh4615]

@@gakclan3774 no he didn't

[@symbiotegod2069]

@@gakclan3774 Shimura's fate is multi choice whether he lives or dies.

[@mat7083]

*Surprised Pikachu face* N-NANI!!!

[@unicorntomboy9736]

@@symbiotegod2069 I think Jin should kill him, out of honour.

[@HeronMarkedBlade-ef7zz]

The difference between honorable, and being effective. I've fought in a war, I'll take effective every time.

[@addanametocontinue]

I'm sure the British would agree. They fought honorably against the American rebels, who used guerilla tactics. We know how that war turned out.

[@edwardvilla3228]

But honestly I would like to see someone who go for the harder path

[@jordanr2244]

David Tran and that’s why they lost 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@elrey1176]

@@addanametocontinue pretty sure the americans left the guerilla tactics after the french came in.

[@runniirunny2903]

For the man who sacrifices the code to save the people. He is more honorable than those who keep their pride and still call it 'Honor'.

[@weirdoman315]

This whole section is so well written. I found myself agreeing with points for both sides of the argument. On one hand, Jin is right that samurai lives are being needlessly lost in pursuit of "honor". Using underhanded tactics would be far more effective at keeping allied soldiers alive. On the other hand, Shimura has some valid points too. This comment section seems to think that Jin is pretty clearly in the right, but as we see with a lot of things that happen in Act 3, a lot of what Jin did has some pretty serious negative consequences (Mongols using the poison for themselves, Japanese civilians being afraid of the Ghost, the Ghost's "army" deciding for themselves to invade the Mongol homeland for revenge). It's pretty much up to the player's interpretation whether or not it was all worth it.

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

Yup. You can interpret it into modern warfare as well. For example, weapons of mass destruction is forbidden. Let's say a small nation is being invaded and nearly conquered- can you really blame them for resorting to such matter to save their people and their nation? War is scary man. The line of morality is never more blurred.

[@samuraipanda85]

I have to concur. On the one hand I was all for sneaking into the castle at night. Blowing up some gunpowder caches, taking a stab at assassinating the Khan, maybe slitting some throats of archers on the parapets to thin their ranks, but poisoning their drinks felt a bit much. Even when Jin asked his Servant/Stepmom to make him poison for a blowgun I was like, "Jin? You've got bombs, knives, and two kinds of bows. Do you really need a blowgun full of poison this late in the game? We've been killing Mongols just fine." And how is it Uncle sent those men to die for nothing? They were seizing the momentum of battle and trying to keep the gates open. How was anyone supposed to know that the Khan would like his horses on fire and send them down the bridge with carts full of gunpowder? Everybody needed to chill for a minute, reacquire their center, and have Jin open the gates right before the attack at dawn. But seriously, fuck the Uncle for suggesting that Jin betray Yuna who is literally responsible for every life Jin has saved since she saved him. The Uncle ought to be asking her to be his daughter as thanks.

[@itzmrinyy7484]

I'm usually more on the peaceful side. I almost always agree that you should not become the enemy and you should always keep your honor and pride first, but damn this game delivered Jin's reasoning so well

[@shydreameress264]

A war never ends in a good way.

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

@@Gamfluent So Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't wrong? There is right and wrong in warfare. What matters is necessity

[@jeridmessa2555]

The 80 Samurai vs Mongols at the beginning was a suicide mission. They knew they cannot win so die in a honorable way was the best result as a Samurai. Lord Shimura never afraid of death while being captured as hostage by the Khan because he is ready to die any time for not compromising to help the Khan which is a honorable act of a Samurai. While Jin chose to act "dirty" for winning the war to save the people, he put peolple's lives over the code of Samurai so he can never be a Samurai under the Shogun. This is a Samurai story about going against the Code of Samurai, interesting.

[@jacobxiongnu2931]

War is fought not off one code but by all codes tooth and nail.

[@DevilKnightize]

It's not only that, but I think that they want us to see how the history of the ninja after all the way ghost is fighting and his weapons, reminds me of ninja So in this game, they want you to know the evidence that leads to the creation of a ninja aka the ghost and who created them and how the aftermath of creating the ninja and the choice between the two in the end of the game either spare the uncle or kill him if he spares him and after the end, Jin went to train more ghost aka ninja and he formed an organization there will be a civil war between the samurai and ninja because samurai rejected the idea of ghosts aka ninja Also other things it shows us that war is cruel mistress there is place of native fools and idealistic people who follow what they believe whether it's for good or ill In war, you need to use everything that you can gain in order to make sure that the enemies doesn't destroy or enslaved your lands and people like we show in this game

[@brxnv_]

@@DevilKnightize i hope in the sequel we get to go to Japan and create a proto shinobi faction... lol Suckerpunch can develop its own Assassin's Creed with this

[@DevilKnightize]

Novacki agreed with you I don't why but I love when I love games that has main character build a new faction country or empire

[@brxnv_]

@@DevilKnightize yep that's why i still hold AC Brotherhood deer to my heart i like the management features that comes with it, hopefully AC Valhalla is going to do the same

[@Paragon231]

Dear Lord Shimura, That girl you're blaming for everything is the sole reason you're free right now. ~ Everybody with common sense.

[@theonomist2908]

I honestly don’t like yuna in this game

[@uneducatedisnotstupidlol1504]

Made no sense to me why the shogun would care about a bunch of mongols being poisoned anyway I find the whole act 2 ridiculous.

[@AwashimaSeriLieutenant]

and then the Mongols start poisoning everyone....Jin gave Khotun a weapon. Also its more about the fact that the islanders would rather believe in Jin, than the daimyo and the samurai

[@Paragon231]

@@AwashimaSeriLieutenant Jin gave Khotun a weapon? If Jin hadn't started poisoning monguls left and right then the people of Tsushima wouldn't have lived long enough for the Shogunate to hand out any kill orders.

[@uneducatedisnotstupidlol1504]

@renewer yah that's no reason to jail someone when he hasn't done anything wrong yet the ok only reason is because he defied the jito but only the jito knows that so he could have kept it to himself because its fucking war but whatever.

[@samuraipanda85]

"Fear is not the weapon of the samurai." So those big horns on your helmet, are they meant to calm our enemies?

[@WarbossR0kt00fSant0s]

Those horns represent who has the higher authority, traditionally.

[@samuraipanda85]

@@WarbossR0kt00fSant0s And they have no intimidation element to them, do they?

[@WarbossR0kt00fSant0s]

@@samuraipanda85 Not unless the man wearing those horns are Mountain-levels buff.

[@Kurogane893]

@@samuraipanda85 The masks they wear on their faces are definitely an intimidation tactic. See a lot of other samurai would give Shimura a ton of flak for the way he does things. As Jin says, Shimura is a slave to honor. What Jin is doing by spreading fear, isn't actually all that controversial. Sneaking around, using ambush tactics and so on are all things samurai did in order to demoralize their enemy.

[@johnnydoe2672]

This is literally a Netflix series and a video game in one

[@gudhaxer41343]

Nope netflix can never write a show or a movie this good even if they tried, they're more quantity over quality and its a fact.

[@elianrodriguez7318]

@@gudhaxer41343 can't say that I disagree on that.

[@theburgernoder2441]

@@gudhaxer41343 and tokenism. “Here’s a gay black mongol who turns samurai”

[@Vtuberfan69]

@@theburgernoder2441 Well there was a black samurai look it up in a KZbin channel called weird history

[@theburgernoder2441]

@@Vtuberfan69 I know, Yasuke right?

[@The_Platinum_Realist]

Lord Shimura: "You are without honor!" Also Lord Shimura: "Blame Yuna."

[@MrSirHaku]

The fact that his uncle had raised him and trained him since he was a child... it’s hard to hate him because even though they both disagree, he’s still his uncle, his father figure.

[@pur-zi-purple]

Exactly.. I can't hate him but the same time like him. 😔😔

[@sorrowfultime]

Lord shimura : Nooo, u cant just act like ur enemy!!! Jin : The future Has Come, old man

[@Daniel-8160]

Shimura: nooo u can't just attack from the shadows! Jin: haha tanto go stab stab

[@fegeleinherman8587]

Lord Shimura: Noooo, u can't just act like you're the enemy Jin: Outcome.... Guts go brrr

[@BlackGoId]

Explain that to your descendants that bombed Pearl Harbor after we told them not to bring us in that war and went back a few years later and owned there ass with two little boys on Nagasaki and Hiroshima

[@atas2561]

Jin: Honour died on the beach. Shimura: Surprised Pikachu face

[@radjadawamindra697]

Jin: Ok boomer.

[@static315]

Jin Sakai: Chooses being the ghost over samurai codes Palpatine: *Enters the chat 👀👀👀

[@lordnihilus4845]

*cackles*

[@virgiljianu7166]

It's treason then

[@locoartsuu9607]

"Have you ever heard of the tale of Jin the Ghost?"

[@tjrex1915]

@@locoartsuu9607 "I thought not, its not a story the Samurai would tell you..."

[@jacobpdeleon2747]

@@tjrex1915 it was said he used fear as a weapon.

[@ernestw2474]

(Assassin's Creed II) Mario Auditore: "You are not Vieri. Do not become him." (Ghost of Tsushima) Lord Shimura: "And you are acting like the enemy." That's a contrast relationship of uncle and nephew between the two game.

[@Schoney32]

The difference is they didn’t try to kill each other in the nd!

[@AkiraHisyamHobbiezz]

well at beginning ezio is full on revenge....his uncle teach him a the way of assassin do and dont. jin uncle is a person who holds strongly into honor and tradition while jin see new opportunity to win a war by adapting new strategy that out of traditional way. it something his uncle even the lords kinda hard to accept it. but i agree with jin....honor wont bring a victory or avenge the dead or bring peace to the decease family.

[@crashpal]

"Its a me...mario"

[@gaming2night730]

@@crashpal 😭😭

[@shonthacreator6146]

And Ezio's outfit used to be his father's and Jin gets his father's armor later in the game

[@SrChr778]

A golden rule of war is this: predictability is death on the battlefield. You try to fight fair, that's a death sentence in war.

[@Aditya21420]

This quote was on the back of Ghost recon future soldier's box, "Only the dead fight fair"

[@everythingsalright1121]

Shimura doesn't seem to get that Tsushima isn't exactly bursting at the seams with manpower. The fact that he'd rather charge in recklessly and get everyone killed instead of saving everyone who he can like Jin drives me nuts. He's too stuck up with his honor thing, understandably so since it's all he knows, but his refusal to adapt to a changing world just makes me think that if Jin wasn't around, Tsushima would be screwed. He'd throw away lives, destroy families, kill morale, all for the sake of a code. Jin actually cares about people. He knows about loss, and is willing to do anything to stop it.

[@aeso3555]

In real life, Shimura would be a terrible military officer since his tactics consists of nothing more than charging at the enemy at full speed and hoping that some of his men are still alive at the end of it all

[@kevinmalone584]

This truly is a beautiful game

[@M.Aaltonen]

@@aeso3555 kinda reminds me of Pierson from cod ww2, doesnt even care about saving his men

[@TheNirvanafan27]

It funny cuz the other samurai in the game (named ones) actually agree with jin, the sensei says hes concerned but agrees its what's needed

[@Blue-Apple-fc9eo]

@@M.Aaltonen agreed

[@tengkuluqmanhakim291]

If you played this game or watch any walkthrough for now Ghost of Tsushima, Jin never abandoned his honor. At the beginning of the game after he lost in the war, when he had a flashback sparring with his his uncle, Lord Shimura asked him what does honor mean to him. Jin answered something like, "Protect the people".

[@zafryj3982]

mantap bos

[@FSUSean2112]

protect the people by any means possible, and if it installs fear? then so be it, i mean the khan and the mongol army did that to us, now its time for the ghost to install fear into the mongols

[@saylosrelyks8645]

When his uncle reluctantly throws the adoption papers in the fire, that part really got me.

[@chaoticace9036]

It kinda hurt me as well. Jin seemed so happy when Shimura first told him that he was adopting him. But he then chose his people over his uncle, his heritage. That's why I love the game

[@yutakaws]

Lord Shimura: This isn’t the samurai way Jin: OkAy bOoMER

[@synical_zero0003]

Except boomers are people born in like the 1950s, this game takes place in the 1200s, so Shimura is literally centuries before a boomer. Sorry if I ruined the joke a bit lmao.

[@TheWolfDude91]

Its for who you fight and protect not how. He is the most honorable of them all, he breaks his code and ruins his life to save lives, while his uncle would rather blame other people and send them to their deaths, arrogant and proud, not honorable.

[@tano1670]

Thats why at the start of the game his uncle asks what does honor means to jin and he responds: "To protect our people" I think the game wants you to understad that there is not only 1 definition of honor wich is a cool detail if you ask me.

[@Gameshunter92]

@@tano1670 Pretty much for me at no point did Jin betray his sense of Honor, as he stated himself in his childhood that protecting those who cannot protect themselves is honorable, and Jin was doing just that.

[@bigsmoke9669]

Thats rich coming from vegeta

[@MirV7]

He is honorable, I really like his character shimura. He just desperate cause jin is like his own son and he doesn't want him to dead by Shogun for breaking his samurai code

[@filopride619]

@@tano1670 Shimura even says that was his father's answer about honor. And it was already stated that Shimura and Jin's father didn't always agree with each other.

[@marthamerino5679]

This game made me feel like an invincible badass... Jin is an incredible character and his transformation into The Ghost is so well written that when he finally claims it as his, a chill ran down my spine

[@summonerbraddysg51]

To quote a favorite game character of mine. "Honor is in the heart. Not the name." -Yasuo

[@ducminh7568]

and not in the feeder - Yasuo 0/15/3

[@jordanhann3637]

Jin is a total analog of Yasuo.

[@b1bbert_2]

At least Jim doesn’t go 0/10 and flame his entire team

[@summonerbraddysg51]

And now, he has his brother with him, to become the ultimate feeder.

[@dragonquest8ftw1]

I always tried to stay honourable and I would standoff at every turn I could in act 1, but I remember a trivial quest I did that caused the shift to go no holds barred, I was coming across a bridge over a cliff and a boy was stuck in the centre screaming for his family to save him as Mongols were pettering him with arrows and killing anyone who attempted to save him. It was then I went in with the assassinations, and while looking back the quest wasn't going to go either way, the thought of this whole fighting with honour occurred to me in a more dire circumstance, if I had wasted another second in fighting or tried to fight them fairly, that boy's life would have vanished and for what? Because I refused to fight without honour? What would that have achieved? a family mourning their dead son, that's what.

[@danielbretado7660]

I know right? I know it's just a game but terrorizing a child like that was petty and cruel. I love how this game is making me feel for all sides.

[@mblock8208]

Aye bro this comment deserves likes, preach my guy

[@adriansepulveda9452]

Funny that's how I actually played as well i even dyed the traveler armor to white. Since that's usually what Ronin wear. At least the pure ones. And I fought with honor. Until the rope bridge quest. I did an assassin kill. Then I tried to so hard to make up for my failure. But I started to use it more and more. Until finally after becoming the ghost I went all out.

[@tonytan5945]

You're talking about the incident at Hiyoshi Pass.

[@adriansepulveda9452]

@@tonytan5945 Yes that's the one thank u

[@electricblaster7798]

Jin: _"He murdered Taka."_ Ryuzo: _"And you slaughtered my men. I've lost everything."_ Bruh. He killed his men _after_ he turned traitor. He brought this on himself.

[@user-ko5ul7yi1x]

And what I don't understand is why couldn't they have just raided the mongol camps for food? For fuck's sake, they've got hanging meat about the size of a person there!

[@TheUaxington]

@@user-ko5ul7yi1x Because Ryuzo did not actually care about his men

[@ignaciomora2153]

@@user-ko5ul7yi1x it was just an excuse for betraying Jin, Ryuzo resented him and felt inferior to him.

[@ubermaster134]

@@user-ko5ul7yi1x and Jin could've told the ronin to visit one of the villages or temples where they could've gotten fed, unless of course the attack on the castle happened really fast.

[@monkee1271]

@@ubermaster134 and yea there always an animal running around why wont they just chase it with their horse and stab it

[@dishanmudhoo3719]

Second game after RDR2 which gave me chills and real emotions.

[@shonthacreator6146]

And made me sleep deprived a little

[@GIJesse-xo1vl]

As much as I hate resorting to dirty tricks, Jin was just trying to save his people.

[@claymore484]

Ya but at the cost of his reputation he just like those super hero’s that kill the villain. What example are you showing? That you are at the same level as the person your fighting against? That your just as blood thirsty as they are?

[@shawnbenjamin9636]

@@claymore484 If things were so easy going, the world wouldn't be the way it is.

[@Ivory5547]

@@claymore484 A villain kills for his own pleasure, to achieve his objectives, to cause fear and more... A hero that kills the villain, does that to protect the people and make sure that the villain will never kill anyone again, not by pleasure or to cause fear. They keep the people more safer than the hero that only send his enemy to jail, so that he can escape and kill again.

[@Dres2000]

@@claymore484 they would not feel for you as you would feel for them .

[@rememberthatyoumustdie]

@@claymore484 If the villain does the stuff that khotun does to people, I don’t mind stuffing the villain in a paper shredder.

[@yarikawa09]

“There is no honor in war. When the war starts both sides become evil...”- Kyouraku Shunsui, Captain Commander of Gotei 13.

[@PeterMasalski93]

Lord Shimura reminds me of my Grandma: After she found out I was an atheist, she literally stopped caring, supporting me, and even left me homeless because I couldn't stay in her apartment anymore (which was sitting empty in the city). I had to move into a dormitory during my studies. Luckily, I abandoned my religious family and carved my own way into the world. We cut ties until she passed away a few months ago. That's how stubborn she was. All the logic in the world, couldn't convince her brainwashed brain. Her faith was more important than her family. To quote Nietzsche: Convictions are more dangerous to the truth than lies.

[@herooflight7931]

This is worth so much more than a live-action movie. Now I'm starting to appreciate the old Japanese movies more and I'm going to start watching them

[@brucesnow7125]

Watch Kurosawa ones. They are masterpieces.

[@gamerdosze]

ever watch the last samurai? or seven ronin

[@PenziPitlergaming]

I would recommend watching zatoichi

[@keeegsssss7379]

I just completed the main story today and I wanna watch the movies too, could yall please suggest me a few?

[@brucesnow7125]

@@keeegsssss7379 if you want something more adventurous and light, go with Seven Samurai, Goyokin, Yojimbo or Hidden Fortress. If you want something more modern, The Last Samurai and 13 Assassins are great. If you want some heavy, thematically rich classic, Samurai Rebellion and Harakiri are just brilliant. Want something less action packed and more dramatic, Ran, Kagemusha and Throne of Blood.

[@JJsiN84]

"After everything you've done!?" Exactly what I was screaming when he started begging forgiveness. He went to far and trust was completely lost forever. So many amazing quotes in just the few scenes alone to count. I'm so glad the game got the praise it did.

[@ntnrdrgz]

The samurai being honorable is heavily romanticized by movies and western media In truth, the samurai were brutal killers during the Kamakura and Sengoku Period, a time filled with war and upheaval. It is debatable whether bushido, code of honor, was strictly followed by all samurai especially there are famous betrayals during these times. So much for the code of honor. It was during Edo Period, a period of peace and stability, that samurai were started to be romanticized as honorable in literature and eventually by western media. Ghost of Tsushima is romanticized version of the Kamakura Period and an inspiration of samurai movies as clearly stated by the devs. It is a great game.

[@Heavenly-Drakian]

to be fair, it isn't so much romanticized, it is the a clash between the vision of an actual honorable samurai who actually follows the code of honor and one who discards this code to protect his people even if it means becoming like the enemy at times but saves many lives

[@toade1583]

I know right, samurai were assassinating and betraying eachother all the time in the Sengoku Jidai so it's funny to see this game assume that most Samurai wouldn't be like Jin and find some other way to fight than just charging straight on, even in real life, the samurai defending Tsushima took defensive positions, when they got overwhelmed they went to their castles to hold out in a siege, but they still lost because they were ridiculously outnumbered, they didn't just charge to their deaths in the name of honor.

[@fartz3808]

Well it was the same with the 'Honor codes' of European knights. All warriors are 'brutal killers', that's the reaity of war. It doesn't mean that there was no concept of chivalry and 'honorable combat'. Traditional storytelling from the Illiad to Don Quichot attests that the ideal of chivalry was a real thing, even if not everyone exercised it.

[@fartz3808]

@@nooneatall1830 Ye.

[@kei7540]

I don't feel like they romanticized the samurai here.

[@mustang3429]

I freaking love the English cast in this game , Jin's voice actor has some of the most naturally delivered voice acting I've ever heard , he knows how to make it believable , I really enjoyed the Japanese dub of this game but I from my experience in English it just felt more emotional than ever

[@efeceoarata]

Lord Shimura is like "honor here, honor there", but when thing are difficult "throw the thief under the bus and save yourself".

[@auberginemanproductions1608]

Not when things are difficult, buf when his son will die. He would much rather someone else's head than his sons

[@TheCol111]

i honestly felt bad during this level, especially with how Shimura still very much cares for Jin, but Jin made the choice to forsake family so that he can more effectively fight the war.

[@atsyrc7280]

"I'm not your son. I'm the ghost." I knew this was going to happen the moment that uncle said he was going to adopt Jin as his son.

[@Chasekoll9]

"I am not your son. I am the Ghost"

[@chriscormac231]

8:38 here he shows his uncle has a point about his emotions

[@lynchfaraaz9596]

His oldest friend betrayed him he realy trusted him so your kinda right but Jin still had some justification

[@MUP-kn4np]

Shimura: “you are ruled by your emotions. Now stand still so I can backhand you out of anger”

[@omarreyes7626]

jin's breaking ties with his uncle is such a powerful scene, he has come to the painful conclusion the khan it's using the bushido way against the samurai so he most walk away from it in order to save his home even if that means turning the only family he has left away and be branded a criminal for it, it takes serious balls to do that.

[@rithikdhakshnamoorthy2974]

Jin Sakai: "I've broken my oath and betrayed the shogun! " 47 Ronin: "First Time!"

[@flowgasm]

"After everything you've done!" I get the chills everytime.

[@bigbuffguy9589]

Jin got what he wanted in the short-term, but in the long-term, the Mongols reverse-engineered the poison and started using it against the locals. I think that this is the one action that Jin truly regrets, especially because it probably wasn't even necessary. Jin had already infiltrated heavily-guarded strongholds and cities before. Why not this one too? He made a rash and costly decision.

[@silverblade357]

Yeah. I was kinda bummed there was no option to forget the poison, draw your blade, and take on a hundred dudes!

[@denzilbrowder5509]

@@silverblade357 i mean, given that option in my playthrough i would take it in a heartbeat, screw poison what if someone things to come back behind me and get some to reverse engineer it? i've slaughtered dozens of Mongols, near perfected my style of fighting them, AND have a, seemingly generous on the recharge, surprise fear blast if i need to catch my breath and refocus, let me do the legendary act of being one man who slaughters an entire battalion and then goes on immediately after to single-handedly execute a traitor in a duel before continuing a relentless hunt for the Khan, his men will fear me for a genuine spirit of vengeance after that,

[@daydreamerallieas3950]

They may know about the poison, but they don’t know about our hallucination poison lol

[@madmadkill9962]

Jin Sakai is a hero no matter what anyone says. Even though he broke the samurai code he managed to save so many lives of his home. He even had to sacrifice a lot for his people.

[@moofinmuffinz2505]

I kinda wish that when the game introduced the “Ghost” there was like a bar where it says “Ghost Path” and “Honor Path” and you get to do things that lead down to the Ghost and the Honer path for each quest done, and at the end there are different endings, and like when Jin has to confront Lord Shimura about poisoning the enemy, you will choose the path, and which leads to different endings

[@supersonic5644]

Then this game would be Red Dead Redemption

[@Magma_Seb]

that's just red dead redemption but japan

[@aidankubinec9652]

They were going to do that but decided not to because they wanted you to be forced into being the ghost other than giving you control over it, if Jin felt he could kill them all like a samurai then the whole ghost thing wouldn’t matter at all

[@keknov5555]

that’s literally just the high honor and low honor in red dead. that would be pretty obvious

[@tabien888]

@@supersonic5644 I mean...I would like that

[@h0m3st4r]

I wish Jin had said, "Don't you understand, uncle? Khotun Khan knows how to defeat you. Because you refuse to change your way for the better. The world is changing and we must change with it or we will all die, including you, and what example can a samurai set for his people when he is dead? When THEY are dead?"

[@clayisahottie]

It's interesting: Jin had a good reason, but ironically his method *allowed* the Mongols to gain a new weapon to use against the people of Tsushima.(the Wolfbane poison.) Yet if Jin didn't do what he had to do, then even more people would've died. So both Jin and Shimura were both right and wrong at the same time, which makes them have both compelling arguments on why they believe what they have to do.(aside from all the other reasonings they both had.) A very well done method of creating a conflict between two of the game's most important characters.

[@Kush-yk8nc]

Its simple maths bro Jin's method was more effective , saved more lives

[@kanati1133]

@@Kush-yk8nc But gave the mongols a new weapon to endanger more

[@silverblade357]

@@kanati1133 How did they even learn about his poison though? Nobody survived the seige on that castle. Also, if the flowers are toxic, they were probably already producing the poison anyway. I mean, they've got it stockpiled by the time you go north.

[@benjaminparent4115]

@@kanati1133 I mean the poison was known to the Japanese not just by Jin, the mongol would have probably discovered and used it not matter what happened, as they were willing to use any weapon alvailable regardless of how their opponent fight. Some people even think Khotun Khan knew of the poison before Jin use it, and this what was the secret order of the mongols talked about in Conversations with the Khan 6

[@SugarW1thC0ffee]

Isn’t it amazing how games are becoming more and more like movies! Can you imagine if VR improves we’d be like what we see in the movies... living in the game!

[@eff0165]

I'm gonna protect the people of this island because that's my ninja way!

[@peoplesrepublicofchina847]

"Never engage the same enemy for too long or he will adapt to your tactics. "- General Karl von Clausewitz

[@literallyjuststairs6765]

I love how when asked what he believed honor was when he was a child, Jin replied with "protecting people", and not something like "fighting fairly". He always was about protecting the people. It's all that matters, because that's what honor had meant for him.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Samurai don't fight fair, they cut down unarmed peasants for insulting them. But a Samurai that will throw away the law is a Samurai that can never be trusted to function in society.

[@benjaminparent4115]

@@Edax_Royeaux It is realtively true that Samurai didn't really fight fairly especially in battle. But first it need to be acknowledge that Samurai existed for century and their culture evolved with time, even their weapon did, they transitioned from being mainly cavalry archer, to focus more and more on melee and also diversify, to the point of even including gun, during the sengoku Jidai the concept of Samurai was even pretty muddied with commoner acting like samurai. And it was only recodifed during the Unification of Japan That modern image of samurai that kill peasant and wander around and follow the Bushido come from the Edo period roughly 4 century after the mongol landing in Japan. Jin is actually from an Era where the Bushido didn't existed, or at least it wasn't called that way and was different from what we now call the Bushido, with way less morale attached to it, and not even the same law. Katana themselves didn't existed or were beginning to appear in the rank of lower class soldier. Frankly speaking most heroic code for warrior, like Bushido or the Chivalric code were never really followed when it comes to how to fight fair and honor, they were also numerous their was genrally many version of those code, and most of those code arose from people adding morale to code that were genrally meant to just make you a good fighter, Lord especially wouldn't really follow them because they had a lot of responsabilities and couldn't throw away everything for silly concept. One of the best proof of that being the many trick feudal lord would use to gain an advantage on the battlefield, like using floodgate and feints, or new weapons. Also about those peasant execution they were extremely codified, Samurai only had the right to strike once only immediately after an offense, and people were allowed to defend themselves with a wakizachi, the samurai had to the report to government offical with proof that it was justified, and then spend 20 days at home, wrongly using that right could lead to punishment like being ordered to commit Seppuku or executed, and doctors and midwife were protected to some extent.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@benjaminparent4115 While Samurai can use ninja, they are never suppose to fight in the manner of the ninja. Poison or murdering people in their sleep was not to be among the tools of the Samurai. The Samurai in Jin's time used the Tachi, which in terms of appearance is not dissimilar from a katana.

[@benjaminparent4115]

@@Edax_Royeaux Yeah but this has probably more to do with the difficulty of using such tactics rather than genuine concern, real life poison is not cheap and not exactly suited to be used in combat, it is often far more potent used in a meal, and maneuvring at nigh is hard without modern hardware. But samurai, were never really against storming camp or taking the enemy by surprise.

[@jordanhann3637]

*Okay picture this.* In the sequel, Jin travels to the mainland, and adopts "Shinobu" as his last name. He starts a brotherhood, and teaches his tactics to his recruits... and anyone who joins, relinquishes their existing identity and is adopted into the clan. Hence explaining the origin of the ninja. Wouldn't that be EPIC? :)

[@vanlao6367]

To be fair, it doesn't actually fit in with the origin of the shinobi, but it would be a good fit for the establishment of the well-known ninja clans like the Hattoris. One problem: This game is made during the Mongol invasion, but the legend of the ninja clans is well-known during Sengoku Jidai, which is like 500-600 years apart from each other, so it would be very hard to make a sequel out of this.

[@ignatzbubis3610]

I think a game about Tomoe in Kyoto called "Ghost of Kyoto" would be much cooler

[@ayashinightcore8282]

So the ending of assassins creed origins

[@kevinzki21]

@@vanlao6367 Ghost of Tsushima plays loose with historical events anyways so as to not lock them up with storytelling ideas.

[@thelongertheiconofsinisone6570]

All I want is him and his crew (yes, even Kenji) entering mainland Japan to team up with other “Ghosts” and fight a new widespread Mongol invasion along with defending against the Shogun’s men. OR Something involving mainland Japan where we get to play as Jin’s apprentice.

[@kaijuslayer3334]

I like how this foreshadows how warfare changes in Japan after the Mongol invasions. The most effective tactics used for the Mongols composed of a lot of unconventional tactics and guerrilla tactics. Eventually, no more were battles 2 sides with a dozen samurai, all having little duels to the death. Japan’s warfare would evolve, hundreds of ordinary peasants filling up the ranks. Becoming the backbone of every army. All the while even the samurai began harnessing the power of gunpowder weapons and tools. Warlords like Oda Nobunaga began using unconventional tactics, and beating initially superior armies with the power of chaos and cunning. The already pretty few rules of the samurai had boiled down completely to, “Serve your lord and clan, at any cost.” And it took a conflict with powerful outsiders for this shift to happen. And yes, I know this game is romanticized to go overboard with the whole honor thing. But it still stands that the way Japanese armies were changed due to the Mongol invasions.

[@azazel166]

TL;DR version: They adapted.

[@rinzler1801]

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but rather the one most adaptable to change

[@gunmuratilban8667]

This game was directed perfectly. Notice how the duel camera is used when Lord Shimura and the Ghost was having the argument. Such a subtle way to show that the bridges were burned and they're not on each other's side anymore.

[@Uruk02]

Blame her for this outrage..... That's a code of samurai

[@bradyscraft2188]

Fuck your rules! I fight for what’s right! And sometimes you got to fight dirty! -Deadpool

[@johnkupferschmid2701]

This game has way better lines in it than The Last of Us part 2 ever will! "Honor died on the beach" and the part where he says "I am not your son I am the ghost" I felt those words. And later in the game when his uncle tells him "you have no honor" and Jin says "and you are a slave to it" that is a powerful line as well.

[@gamerstheater1187]

Jin: *spits facts* Lord Shimura: UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

[@atas2561]

*Lemongrab noises*

[@thefurmidablecatlucky3]

spreading fear and chaos is what you're suppose to do in a war .. what did he expect?

[@samuraijackoff5354]

It’s like the term, die right or live wrong.

[@vanlao6367]

There is a reason why we have the codes of conduct in war. I agree with most people that being effective in war is necessary for the survival of the nation no matter the method, but it is a two-edged blade that can harm the user just as well as his enemy if he is not careful. War is a dangerous beast, it drags people into madness no matter their background, it dehumanize everyone, it brings out the worst animal instinct of our human nature in the name of survival. That's why people revere Honor in war, not because it is right, but because it bring some senses of order into the chaotic madness of war, it preserves the human aspect within us from being consumed by the madness of war. Aside from being rigid man sticking to honor, Lord Shimura was also afraid that Jin was following the path of his own destruction by committing coward / heinous acts like his enemy, he was afraid that by continuing to do so, Jin will lose his humanity and become a broken man after the war with the Mongol ends given how many people he killed, because "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

[@LordOfGilneas]

I love the Symbolism. When Jin sees Ryuzo You See Him Hesitate, Old friendship lingering on his mind, yet when ryuzo is dying you just see this emotionless resolve. He had to kill his friend, but he need not prolong his friend's suffering. And then you see him cast aside the last family member he ever had, The last semblance of honor, To Save his people. sometimes the only honorable thing to do, is to sacrifice honor to protect all you hold dear.

[@nikosandrianopoulos3962]

I dont agree with a lot of comments saying there is not honor in war.There is honor when both sides respect each other.The mongols clearly didnt respect the samurai code.And jin’s uncle wasnt a samurai but a slave to the code,and coudnt realize the diffrence between a warrior and a bloodthirsty beast.

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

mongol code of honor is we leave u alone if u surrender. resist means make u submit by any means necessary.

[@ChromeMan04]

@@QWERTY-gp8fd isn’t that what most invaders did? The mongols just wiped out whole populations even for those who surrendered.

[@NLGogeta]

12:18 will forever be the most iconic cutscene this game is truly amazing and anyone know the ost that plays ?

[@aamirshaikh2122]

It sounds like a version of the Jin Sakai theme

[@axelitotapia2381]

The full ost is on Spotify

[@apputaiparambil]

This guy will go down in history books as an icon like Ezio, Sam fisher, Snake.

[@natsu2010]

Shimura talks about honor all the time but when he wanted to blame Yuna for his methods was when I decided that Shimura is the one who is not honorable.

[@LouLikestowatch]

anyone who says the story of this game is average hasn't played the game. This story might appear simple, but it has complex themes, and you can see deeper layers if you look hard enough. I enjoyed seeing Jin's journey - from naive young man believing in honour and his uncle, to becoming a realist, and willing to sacrifice himself and honor for the sake of his people and land. He really grows and changes - and I like that about a story.

[@afranabdulbaig7001]

How can they not give this game GOTY....? Everything was perfect. The graphics. The story. The characters. The ending. Esp duel with Lord Shimura

[@takuu144]

It's like what jin said, he gave up everything for his people. It's not just him breaking his uncle's code. He gave up everything he knew and loved to protect it. Don't forget that he was a samurai too. Being a samurai for the people and honoring his father uncle is everything he dreamed, wanted to achieve, but now he has to give that up to save his home.

[@JABRIEL251]

Notice the way he kills Ryuzo is the same way he kills his Uncle.

[@moret25]

Sylvanas Windrunner: "Honor means nothing to a corpse, Saurfang!"

[@HeroAndReporter]

It’s interesting to play over the course of the Game how everyone seems almost worried about Jin and his tactics on making the mongols suffer. As he gradually embraces the Ghost, his desire to see the Mongols dead by any means became more clear and everyone can see that.