GIDEON THE NINTH | wtf is this book?

[@bombraccoon8899]

I completely understand your POV but I ADORED this book. I read the bulk of it for 9.5 hours straight. I loved Gideon and Harrow and I loved the other characters and all of their personalities. This might just be my personal reading strength speaking, but I actually found the world building pretty self explanatory. It was like we were Gideon learning all this new stuff for the first time. She already knew most things about the ninth house so it was treated as “normal” while Canaan was highly detailed. Gideon learned more about the other houses and their abilities along the way so we did too. Idk I just found it very open almost to interpretation and that was really cool to me. I hate being spoon fed the laws and layout of a new world, but Gideon made it very fun and entertaining. I need book 2 NOW before the ending of book 1 emotionally destroys me.

[@kibert135]

A little bit late but I found the aspect interesting how this series handles worldbuilding. Because unless it makes sense for the characters to talk about the world, they all refuse to give any sort of exposition. And on top of that Gideon is a character that doesn't really know much about the world beyond the Ninth House and her fantasies about the world and also doesn't care to find out more unless she is forced to. She also manages to be away from the plot for a lot of the time. While Harrow and the people of the other houses try to find out the mysteries of the house, Gideon gets to know the people, wanders around the house and gets ignored by the one person who could force her to be more involved. On top of that the plot mostly is happening in one big house. So all of that makes it really hard to get a sense of the world. But that is also why I love it so much. Because only the interactions between characters, the descriptions of the house and how the magic is used and discussed all help getting this sense of the world. I never read a series that foucsed to building the world by just showing people living in it. This whole approach to world building is one of the reason why I love both Gideon the Ninth and Harrow the Ninth. But I wouldn't want every book to be like this. One of the things I like is how every choice in this series comes together to create this whole experience. The worldbuilding, atmosphere, structure and the characters all work together really well for me. But I also get that this isn't for everyone and when one thing doesn't work for you, it all comes crashing down. I don't even know if I explained it well. But in the end I totally get why you didn't like it.

[@alexabaxter6658]

The most extreme example of the worldbuilding you describe that I've encountered is the Terra Ignota series, which has a seriously unreliable narrator who goes on long digressions while refusing to give a basic explanation of things that in-universe are common knowledge. I picked up a lot of the basic information from the wiki and fandom before taking the plunge and actually starting to read, and this spoilered me in a way I really don't enjoy but made it more comprehensible than it would have been otherwise. Eventually I was settled in and saying "I wonder about X" only for the author to promptly deliver on X. "Eventually" being quite late in book 3. You *can* figure out a lot of it, but it's a lot more work, and you have to either enjoy the narration itself being a mystery to solve, or have something in the story you want to see enough to put up with it. I was in the latter group. Edit: Actually the ur-example of weird narration is the "Illuminatus!" trilogy, which has been on my to-read list for a good chunk of the last decade. The premise of the series is that all the conspiracy theories of the day are true. It was written by Discordians. It's... chaotic.

[@sinestesianestesia9079]

I soooo agree with your interpretation

[@BeautifullyBookishBethany]

I guess we can still be friends even if you didn't like Gideon. ;-) I absolutely loved her as a character, and I agree that it's really the humor that reminds me of Nevernight (which I definitely said in my review btw!). I thought it was obvious there was baggage between Gideon and Harrow so I was always curious about what it was, and while I didn't actively ship them, it's such a brutal world I was less concerned with whether their relationship was healthy because none of them really are. It's true there are a lot of questions about the world-building, but I didn't mind not having them answered right away, or even everything in book one because it reads to me like the author has more figured out than what we see.

[@LienesLibrary]

I can't exactly say where the line is or what the difference is, but I've read and loved books where things aren't made clear right away, but I need something to go on, a hint, an allusion, something to allow he to begin to speculate about what I haven't been told yet.... here I felt like I got literally nothing

[@FIT2BREAD]

I'll have to finish before I watch glasses-off. I'm about a hundred pages in and it's fine so far. It was "sold" to me as scifi/fantasy blend...and I'm trying to dip my toe into fantasy, so... to quote you.."that over and under sells it." So far I like it and it is holding my interest. On the other hand, it introduced animated skeletons, and that's just not my jam...great video

[@omgpascalsoffcourse964]

Bummer that you didn't like it. I liked it the first time and then LOVED it the second go around. I also found at first the characters hard to follow but the list in the beginning really helped.

[@Tadwinked]

[SPOILERS] I agree with your assessment. Personally, I think I would give it that third star. It definitely had its issues, but I was entertained. I bought the audiobook to listen to on a long car trip. I listened to the first 4 hours (just under a quarter) and promptly forgot about it for a couple weeks. I picked it up again last week and finished it the other day. It was a bit hard to get a feel for the characters, and very difficult to understand the setting. The lack of world building was a big problem. Which was frustrating because I feel like there were some really fascinating elements to it. I did start to get attached to some of the characters from the other houses during the murder mystery bit. (And I was sad, especially when Jeannemary died.) It actually took me longer to get attached to Harrow, especially since she was missing from large chunks of the book. I'm also not gung-ho about Harrow and Gideon's relationship. I think it would have been really interesting to see them mature as people and get to know and understand each other better. I can understand them being traumatized children who took their anger out on one another. I guess can see romantic feelings developing after a lot of healing? But not if Harrow really was Gideon's oppressor. Was it Harrow who sent Crux after her? Was Gideon responsible for the torment Gideon endured? Or did she just generally treat her her with disdain and not lift a hand to help her? I was kind of unclear on that part. It's fucked up either way, but there's a difference. I wasn't a fan of the ending, but I'll probably read the sequel. Also mostly because I'm curious if any of the the questions in the first book will be answered. Afterthought: I think Moira Quirk's voice acting probably added to the entertainment value. A+ performance.

[@LienesLibrary]

I've often found that a good/bad narrator can make/break a book for me - I might have liked Gideon better on audio....

[@BillJohn-jg2fg]

Thank you for posting this unpopular take. It earned a sub from me. I DNF’d this book so hard. The humor fell flat every chapter and I just couldn’t subject myself to it anymore. I’m honestly so disappointed. Lesbian space necromancers had me incredibly interested.

[@TroySpace]

Humour? I must have missed it.

[@suki426]

I had a very different experience with the book than almost anyone else as it was read to me by a friend who adores the book. There's no way I would have been able to read it on my own just the structure of the writing was hard for me to focus on but I enjoyed it for what it was.

[@ReadswithRachel]

So I haven’t read it yet so I had to stop at the end of the non-spoilery part. I’m bummed to hear the world building is that disappointing.

[@LienesLibrary]

I've talked to friends of mine who loved it and they're convinced the world will be revealed in book 2 so I'm willing to find out...

[@Candied_yamz]

I’m 1/3 of the way through this book and am soooOoo confused. The modern slang used takes me out of a sci-fi and fantasy headspace. There is no world building like you said so there isn’t enough context for me to imagine a setting or understand anything about the culture. Gideons motivations are inconsistent. Overall it’s very hard to follow. I just don’t understand how this book is so popular!!!!!!! I’m trying to get through it but it feels like a chore.

[@artybluegirl]

This. I liked the tiny itsy bits of Worldbuilding we got, the hints, but it never went beyond that. Also what bothered me was, sure maybe the Ninth House is reclusive, but Guideon was so clueless about the world she lived in and I think that's another reason why we don't know anything since she's POV character. Also yeah, Harrow-Guideon's relationship was.... just so underdevelopped, we just saw the "I hate you" and when they were finally begining to work together, REALLY work together not ignoring each other, and when you know it, it's over.

[@KM-il7cb]

I loved this book, especially by my second time through. The world building was there but you did need to pay close attention and I'll admit, with so many characters it can be hard to keep track of it all. Still, I really enjoyed it overall and am also enjoying book two. 😊

[@ericmerrell8622]

I read the first two books and still don't know what these are actually about. This series is far more confusing than Malazan.

[@lannaweeks]

SPOILERS!! I was also wondering for a while why harrow hated gideon so much, and then when its revealed that her parents killed all of those children in order to have harrow, and gideon was the only one to survive it, it made gideon a kind of physical reminder of what happened that day, causing more shame and resentment in harrow every time she looks at her.

[@InfiniteText]

I could watch you rant about anything. I was thinking of picking this up the other day, and I was like....I bought so many books, I'll wait and see if the general consensus is that it's good. I'm glad I didn't now. Or at least I can wait until the sales come up, or it's in paperback. Maybe book two will turn it around?

[@LienesLibrary]

so many better books out there imo, but if book 2 turns it around you can bet I'll let ya know 😉

[@PunkyDory80]

Liene, I love that you just go for it with your reviews. Always great to watch!

[@LienesLibrary]

haha I don't know how to do it any other way 😅

[@PunkyDory80]

@@LienesLibrary good!

[@aylinitzel.]

I got this as a gift and the description got me pretty excited, this has me a lot less excited. But at least the book could still be a good time

[@LienesLibrary]

the book does have some excellent jokes and the closed-circle mystery bit was interesting.....

[@aeusoes1]

I just finished Gideon the Ninth and am still processing it. I think some of the points you bring up really crystalize things that I was feeling while reading. Especially the worldbuilding. Thanks for sharing!

[@LienesLibrary]

Glad to help 😋

[@aftondeonce]

Can i just say thank you for voicing every opinion i had on this book. I can’t make it to the second book tbh

[@thecontradictorian2225]

Our sameness continues. Just filmed my review and agree with everything you said.

[@wiltonhall]

Excellent review.

[@dagangstaking6445]

May I reccomend, a review of "the spider"

[@a_level_70_elite_raccoon]

I feel your problems with the book are largely due to Missing the Point. "Why are we here, why should we care about these characters," are a reflection of Gideon's own (lack of) involvement with her world. She doesn't want to *be* in the houses or with the houses or bumbling around a necromantic mansion. Gideon wants to be in the army. She wants to be anywhere that Harrow isn't, and Harrow's control over the Ninth house is made *abundantly apparent* in the first few pages, even if you don't know the Super Secret Special Reason why Harrow hates Gideon (irrationally) and decides to make Gideon's life a living hell. I cannot imagine anyone being confused over this, assuming they were paying attention. You ask so many questions about world building when the book is written from the first-person perspective of a person who does not want to be involved. I cannot fathom why you did not take that into account.

[@LuxuriousBlu]

I didn't know about this book much, if at all, before this video and I have no intention of reading it, but I enjoyed this review.

[@LienesLibrary]

thank you!

[@iLiviesimone]

That thumbnail the glasses the content --> qaulity

[@LienesLibrary]

hahaha thanks girl 😎

[@KeepingTabs92]

I dont know what it is, but you have the best reviews in the business lol. I cant sit through many book reviews unless they're yours. I was so close to getting this book yesterday! I had a feeling that it might have been a liiiitle overhyped for me, and I love that you pinpointed exactly what you thought was missing. I think i might give this a try through the library if anything. I did end up buying Smoke Thieves because of your review. It was between that and The Wolf lol. Great video!!

[@LienesLibrary]

oh wow thank you so much! you totally should give this book a go, since a lot of people do love it 🙃 I hope you love The Smoke Thieves (and then sign my totally real and not made up petition to get a cover change for the US editions 😂 jk jk)

[@Znyggisen]

Thanks for the review! My thoughts on the book were pretty much the same as yours and I find that it is usually a lot more fun to hear someone whose opinions are closer to your own as you can't really make your arguments heard through a screen :) Still quite excited about reading the second one because I thought it had a pretty creative way of ending it, even though what lead up to that ending was pretty lackluster. edit: book two is worse. So one point I very much agree on is the relationship between Harrow and Gideon, and how horrible Harrow is. She did a 180 of basically treating Gideon like shit one day to being in love with her the next; I could understand that Harrow sees Gideon as a constant reminder of the horrors that were caused to give her life, and I can have some empathy for that. But if the guilt causes you to treat someone so heinously as how it is portrayed, I would have liked it to not be resolved so abruptly and go from being nemesis' to complete forgiveness during the span of a bath. Perhaps a way that I would feel it could have worked better is if Harrow/Gideon never consolidated yet Gideon still "sacrifices" herself for Harrow to live (perhaps a sense of duty, even if it isn't really warranted). She could have heard about why two hundred children were sacrificed by someone else, and the line she tells Harrow before she sacrifices herself: "You're already two hundred dead daughters and sons of our House. What's one more?" could be said in spite rather than being another joke. Given that book two is from Harrow's perspective (I have not read it yet so IDK the details) could make for some very interesting introspection from Harrow if she was never genuinely forgiven (assuming she feels guilt and regrets how she treated Gideon).

[@VeronicasShelf]

Videotitle is exactly my feelings during and after reading the book. Confused.

[@LienesLibrary]

everytime I think about it I start scratching my head all over again

[@VeronicasShelf]

Liene's Library Same!😂

[@liamo7759]

Characters are great but some parts of the book I had to go over it a few times confusing is the perfect word for this book not for me enjoy the review though

[@TimurBorgir]

stumbled upon your review, because I was looking for a "bad review" to find someone who felt the same like I did and oh boy am I glad that I watched your video! THANK YOU for your review. I absolutely felt the same! stiff neck now from nodding 15mins straight

[@LienesLibrary]

hahaha maybe you can use your copy of Gideon as a neck rest 😆

[@mitchellbeagley2126]

Ah. I understand. Maybe some YA books along the lines of chronicles of Narnia or divergent, maze runner would be more along your alley.

[@justahufflepuffreading1620]

Finally someone who thought what I thought. The humor was good. That was about it. The freaking words used I had to download a damn dictionary and half of them didn’t match up to there sentences. I knew nothing about the world, the stakes, what was happening in the competition. I didn’t get any “lesbian” activity besides Gideon staring at Delecona’s skin randomly. I knew She was the villain and I dnf at 53% lmao. It was horrible, I mean oh my god.

[@LienesLibrary]

hahaha yup pretty much

[@kademascarella7082]

Wow, I had the same thoughts. This book is nominated for a Hugo! jeez!

[@LienesLibrary]

yeah I just heard about the nomination 😆

[@Icy199512]

I'm so glad you made this review because I'm only 1/3 into the book and I'm so confused and I wanted to know if it was worth keep reading it. I've decided it probably isn't.

[@LienesLibrary]

it really isn't 😂 hope you didn't spend money on it....

[@Icy199512]

@@LienesLibrary XD I'm not that lucky I did spend money on it. It was hardback so about 15 bucks but I could return it for book credit at least. At least it won't take any more of my time! I could hardly read it, it was so hard to understand.

[@LienesLibrary]

@@Icy199512 it doesn't get better so yeah, better get some credit and get something better 😁

[@kevinwalsh9704]

I just finished the book today and I agree 100% on the wheres and whys is this happening. Even scene to scene, I never felt like I had a grasp of place. But like you I am going to try the second book when it comes out. I think the story could be more interesting than the first: bone necromancer becomes right hand to god emperor to train and fight unbeatable foe with her dead friend as a voice in her head. That sounds cool to me, hopefully more concrete facts about the universe/empire are fleshed out.

[@LienesLibrary]

I'm not counting on it, but I'm willing to hope 😅

[@kevinwalsh9704]

@@LienesLibrary well you were right. The sequel was just as confusing and was even more of a frustrating read.

[@jolie52]

Great review! I think I will skip this book.

[@righteousindecision2778]

I wanted to read/buy Gideon the Ninth out of patriotism because Tamsyn Muir is (originally) from New Zealand. I managed twenty pages, at most. I agree with what you said about the intro, though I'll add that It was too egotistical for me (the glasses were perhaps a clue). The book went back on the shelf. One New Zealander who's part of the local scene has insisted it gets better. I don't share his taste much,but I was going to try again. Not anymore - this is a way more persuasive argument. I've not dodged a bullet, so much as I've ducked a returning boomerang. (Yes boomerangs are Australian - but that's the reason to avoid em, probably carries covid 😋)

[@LienesLibrary]

I honestly don't understand the obsession with this book, but to each their own I suppose

[@tiger_3723]

I seriously couldn't finish this book. The world- building problems you talked about, yeah. The not liking the characters, yeah. But mostly it was writing, honestly. The tone did jibe for me. It made no sense. And I love a cynical, irreverent tone but it just made no sense to me. Gideon was this character who grew up in a secluded cult that worships death. I'll maybe give you a cynical attitude, although again she grew up in an isolated deeply religious environment so thats a stretch, but she talks like a Tumblrina come to life. It just kept throwing me out of the story. I just couldn't take it. I ditched it at like page 60. The world was shallow, everyone was terrible and the tone was just so off. No one actually talks like that. No one.

[@Punkandcannonballer]

This book is the gives so much weight to judging books by their covers.

[@riggers1977]

Just finished The Wolf & you were absolutely right - brilliant book! I spent my week reading it & taking in everything that this story had to offer & now I cannot wait to read The Spider. Firstly, I loved the intelligence of the two main protagonists; especially the way Roper relied on knowledge & cunning & how he allowed Gray, Pryce, and Keturah to help him in his dilemmas rather than blunder into the traps which were laid out & thus create unnecessary ‘drama’. It was a breath of fresh air to have this kind of thoughtful protagonist. Over time he understood that he was outmatched physically by his rivals within the tribe, & so overcame his biggest obstacle via a more careful, political route. The book didn’t just follow the trope of ‘hero saves the day through blind, impulsive bravery’, it was more ‘hero is a real person who acts on what he’s learned from the wisdom of his elders’. I also loved the brief but darkly rich exchanges between Bellamus & Aramilla. There was such a dangerous edge in how she treated him & it was such that one never really knew whether he should actually trust her. You were right about the anthropological recipe of this world too. The way the Anakim have such a different outlook on their world (colours & art & their multitude of different words for one thing but then their complete absence of words for other things which they deemed unimportant) That intrigued me no end. Thanks so much for the recommendation of this book - it just goes to show that there are still some authors who think carefully about what they are writing!

[@LienesLibrary]

I can't tell you how relieved and delighted I am! a thousand times yes to everything you said - do you plan to read the Spider soon? I loved it just as much if not more, and based on your reaction to the Wolf I think you will feel the same way...

[@riggers1977]

Liene's Library 😂😂 I told you I’d like it - how could someone not enjoy this story? Once I’d listened to you describe all the intelligent elements to its world building I thought to myself ‘I need to read this book now!’ ....Yep, The Spider will defo be my next book. I reckon I’ll give it a week for The Wolf to sink in properly before I start, but I can’t wait too long to begin the sequel - especially after how heavily the epilogue lands with ‘Vigtyr the creepy bastard’ learning that he’s not being inducted into the Sacred Guard.... miffed isn’t even close! & I can see him causing Roper & his mates some serious problems.😬

[@LienesLibrary]

@@riggers1977 gah I'm so excited! can't wait to hear your thoughts on the Spider - and I'm glad I didn't oversell it and ruin it for you 😋

[@riggers1977]

Liene's Library Nah you didn’t oversell it at all - in fact, it was actually better than I expected & I found myself drawn in straight away! 😋👌

[@wifiraslibrary8096]

Confused what are these books? The wolf and spider