How To REACH THE 10TH If You CAN'T?

[@armfeel123]

Absolutely beautiful and excellent video! I watched to the end! I love everything you said. I gave up playing piano because my hands barely reach an octave, and the corners of the key scrape against my stretched fingers, scratching my skin painfully. Your video really brings me comfort and understanding.

[@narrowkeys]

Thank you for mentioning our Narrow Keys project--the first digital piano made with a 5.5 inch octave. As much as tenths are wonderful to play, the greater obstacle is inability to comfortably play octaves. Many amateur pianists, especially women, can only reach octaves on 5.5 inch or 5.1 inch octave keyboards. Lightweight portable digital pianos can make the piano a truly personal instrument, that should be designed with hand size in mind. One-Size-Fits-All should be left on the dustheap of piano history.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Hi. Completely agree. One classical pianist, fellow student back in the conservatory days, could barely reach an octave. No doubt she had to work harder than her fellow student with king-kong sized hands. Keep up the good work! 🎹😃

[@MusicalBasics]

Great video. You covered many of the topics I missed in mine.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Hello, Lionel. And thanks. I saw your video when it came out. A very good one! I think it is nice if people get to see your perspective as well. Very cool to see you in Steinbuhler's factory, and you made some good points in your video. (I added a link to your video in this video's description)

[@ladyp5511]

Yes, absolutely! Having a keyboard that fits your handsize is definitely a no-brainer. I crave a smaller keyboard every single day! Smaller keyboards should be available to anyone who needs one. We are not all built the same way. I cannot thank you enough for this extremely informative video! Thanks so much for sharing. I will continue to live my dream of having a smaller keyboard. Hopefully it will happen one day soon! 🎹🎼🎵🙌🏻

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you for your kind feedback. I'm happy to hear that you too think it is a no-brainer, and I hope you'll get the chance to get your own keyboard at some point that fits your hands 🎹🖐

[@paskpianos]

Fantastic video Gjermund! Thank you so much - I will share it as widely as possible!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Great! I'm happy to hear you liked the video. 🎹

[@jackhenshaw2555]

This is the first comprehensive video on this topic I have been able to find. Great stuff!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you, Jack. I'm glad you liked it!

[@ijohnny.]

Excellent video! Thanks! I could never understand why big manufacturers, like Yamaha, don't put out reduced- size-keys on digital pianos, which requires a lot less design issues than for acoustic pianos. Many of us think the market for such reduced-key-size keyboards is large, maybe very large.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you, Johnny. I Completely agree... I think the first big manufacturer that realizes what you say will gain a lot of customers!

[@codetech5598]

I never understand why the other Asian piano manufactures don't jump at the opportunity to market smaller size keyboards.

[@PiotrBarcz]

Some things to point out as far as this hand size war on pianos goes: You can't increase your hand size, that can only happen through growing. Jesus Molina, Oscar Peterson, Dick Hyman etc. all have genetically wide hands. However you can increase your hand SPREAD which is something that I for example have tortured my hands endlessly to maximize. In the piano world there are some thresholds for what is considered a large hand span, what is average and what is small. I've worked the scale out to something like this: Less than 7 inch hand span: With a 7 inch hand span you can reach octaves but if you have less than that then you are going to have a rough time playing piano as you're going to be overextending to hit 7ths and are going to be playing very inefficiently with a lot of strain. If you can afford a DS 5.5, GET IT, you'll be able to reach an octave reasonably well and maybe a ninth at full spread 7.5: This is pretty normal for hand size, you can probably reach octaves, maybe ninths at full spread and will be able to play pretty much all music reasonably well (provided you're not worried about rolling tenths). 8 inches: At this point you'll be able to reach tenths at full spread and only at very slow tempos if anything, and only tenths on all white keys. Ninths should be trivial for use in chords and whatnot. 8.5 inches: This is the threshold at which point you have, as far as pianists go, big hands. At 8 and a half inches you'll be able to reach all minor tenths. Here's one thing I've noticed, white key tenths are actually the HARDEST tenths to hit and tenths with black keys, as soon as you can reach them, become the easiest because they're raised up. You'll also be able to reach elevenths with 8.5 inches of span. I have 8.75 inches. 9 inches: At this point you'll be able to reach a 12th if you really really go for it, maybe, you'll definitely be able to reach tenths like D major and A major and maybe E major but I don't think so. You'll also be able to reach white keys tenths over the keys which is a HUGE improvement. 9.5 inches is guaranteed easy span for literally all tenths including A flat, C sharp, and B major tenths. Oscar Peterson, Teddy Wilson, Roy Bargy, Art Tatum, Liszt and Rachmaninoff had hand spans of almost 10 inches which means they could reach a 13th with a lot of strain and of course reach just about every other conceivable chord below that.

[@codetech5598]

Banjo players put picks on their fingertips so I wonder if any piano player ever tried to put some kind of extension on their fingertips?

[@PiotrBarcz]

@@codetech5598 It wouldn't work as to grab the key you need to bend your finger at the first joint. The extension wouldn't do anything but extend the last section after the first joint and would actually make playing a tenth more difficult.

[@codetech5598]

@@PiotrBarcz Ok. So I can't become rich selling them.

[@PiotrBarcz]

@@codetech5598 Not if you're selling them to pianists, but if you sell them to banjo players then maybe 🤔

[@bobfazio3724]

Excellent idea and excellent video! Thank you!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Hi, Bob. Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you liked the video and the concept.

[@wendykrause6791]

Thank you for your great video and wonderful sense of humor! I have short pinky fingers and I stopped playing a long time ago because I got frustrated with my hand size. They never stretched enough for me to play octaves comfortably. Several years ago I inherited an upright piano and it hut to try to play again. I thought there must be a solution and I learned about narrow keyboards. Until today, though, I didn't realize that there weren't more options! I agree with you that there should be a piano revolution.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you for your fine comment. I'm sorry to hear that you gave up. Maybe you can look for alternatives now. There is even a 5.1 inch option that I didn't mention in the video. Good luck and take care of your music 🎹😃

[@coolaun]

I'm shocked that the piano manufacturers had never heard of David Steinbuhler. And what about Kluge in Germany? They make keyboards for Steinway, Fazioli and Bösendorfer, to name but three of the biggest names, and they now also propose keyboards with narrower keys. And those manufacturers were skeptical? They should go and look at the quality of these keyboards.

[@JuliaPikalova]

Brilliant video!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you! Cheers! 🎹😃

[@PianoJazz7]

Now that makes sense! I have done some of your Jazz step by Step, and started the Lounge course, which are excellent by the way, and now I realise why the videos show the angled keys at the top. Its your new Yamaha! brilliant and thanks for the great teaching.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you! Yes, I share about the keyboard at some point in the course too. Enjoy 🎹😃

[@PlayPianoChords]

Loved your video! I have small hands and just finished playing 10 concerts in 5 days with NO PAIN! Of course I had a digital keyboard that fit my hands. I have the NK 5.5 prototype. I`m sure you will love yours. Again, great video!🎶🎹

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

How lovely. Congrats finishing your concerts. It’s great to hear that you play on the NK5.5. Can’t wait to see it.

[@solartrox5782]

Very very interesting, & it makes a lot of sense, after all guitars for example come in different sizes, & widths of the spacing between the strings, I really enjoyed this video Gjermund ! ♪♫♪♫

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thanks. Yes, exactly!

[@boredPianoAdv]

Well presented and well edited! I appreciate how clear you are about the disclaimers, too. Glad we don't live in The World of Piano Players!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you! Do you also have an alteanative sized keyboard?

[@AbrEvig]

Fascinating video!!!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thanks. Coming another soon about the electric piano

[@AbrEvig]

@@Gjermund-Sivertsen Did you ever try a Jankó keyboard?

[@gtd9536]

My teacher can span an 11th. He told me that larger hands usually means fatter fingers so sometimes large hands must angle their fingers to play between black keys. Also, he said that smaller intervals are not as natural to larger hands because they have to pinch their palms whereas smaller hands do not have to contract their palms but remain rested. Here's what's funny. My hands are smaller than my teacher and I long to have larger hands so I can play big-chord Rachmaninoff pieces. My teacher and my teacher's teacher (who has even bigger hands) have far more interest in playing smaller interval music from classical and baroque era, where smaller hands would be more natural.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

11th is a lot. One can argue that the big-handed pianists could benefit from even larger keys. The biggest flaw in piano-making history is when they decided upon a one-size-fits-all for the keyboard. But it seems like they are slowly waking up. There are now more places to get keyboards with a better key size. This year, I will make a video about my new electric keyboard with narrower keys. It's fantastic 🎹😃 Rachmaninoff = no problem

[@peterbodofsnik9429]

I really like jazz piano. Can only reach comfortable an octave. For all your not alone, there are others with the same problem of small hands. Thx for the idea of a future where this is not a problem.

[@MrBatriste]

nice coverage

[@drpiercy]

Thank you Gjermund. I can just only reach an Octave over the ends of the keys, and some "regular" chords of less than an octave are very difficult, especially at speed. I can only dream of getting a 5.5" keyboard, I'm sure it would ease my frustration!

[@Kingstonlomusic]

The game changer would be standardise the alternative size keys on major line digital pianos/Stage Keyboards. Because you can't bring your piano to gigs, and costly for venues to get one. So once major brand like Yamaha adopt the idea, it'll be much easier for the world to accept this new standard

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you for your comment. It may not be as costly if the piano manufacturers offered several keyboard sizes as a default option. It would give more work to the piano technicians. Also, technically you don't need to bring your grand piano to gigs either. My keyboard works like a cassette that I can insert to any Yamaha C3 (and several other Yamaha grand pianos). FUTURE POSSIBLE SCENARIO: So one way to go about it is to collaborate. If you come to town to play a gig on a Yamaha C3, you could then let me know. If your gig includes a different piano, the concert venue might rent a keyboard for the night from one of the many different owners of keyboards. Or: It could be a good side-business for piano stores to get various keyboards that they could share when needed. The possibilities are endless as soon as we step out of The World of Piano Players for a moment 🎹😃

[@paskpianos]

An international piano competition in Dallas has offered alternative DS5.5 and DS66.0 sizes to contestants. The keyboards were swapped over in minutes - here is a video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHLNiXyqi9SDqbs In 2015, a contestant won third prize after having just one day to practise on the DS6.0 size. The pain she had always experienced disappeared and she won third prize.

[@ulrikewohlwender1555]

Absolutely great and convincing! Some new (jazz)aspects for me. The future initiative Sirius 6.0 in Stuttgart/Germany works with the same spirit. Thank you so much! Best wishes for you!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thanks, Ulrike. I will add the link to Sirius in the description too.

[@jrcwwl]

It makes me wonder how many other things in our lives we accept at face value simply because; it has always been that way. I have played piano since I was 6 and never once thought about customizing keyboard to my size, which I have to roll a 10th or stretch so far to where it is so uncomfortable and bad for my hands. When measuring 5.5 stretch for an octave, i found it was far more comfortable and hadn't realized that all these years I thought an octave was easy but when compared to a 5.5 version, my hand felt so much more relaxed. Since my fingers are thin, (I've always been self conscious of this fact), would easily fit between the two black keys on the 5.5 version.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Yes, a good comment. Thanks. So many would benefit from a narrower keyboard. Spread the idea, and maybe we'll see the change at some point. 🎹😃

[@63Malda]

That's a good point. Besides being a musician I also ride horses. Saddles are designed on the male pelvis. A company called Schleese is now making saddles for the female pelvis and it's made a huge difference in my balance and comfort while riding. Interestingly it's following the same path as narrower piano keys. A lot of push back from the horse community saying it's too expensive/difficult to make two different types of saddles, and just put in the extra effort or compensate and you'll be fine. Change is not always easy.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thanks for watching! Feel free to leave a comment below 🎹

[@DrD4n]

Great video! And you are absolutely right. With string instruments it is absolutely normal that the instruments starts small and gets bigger, as the child grows… Can you do a video on the stretching excercises you did? Thanks!

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you. I've added the idea to the backlog.

[@chrisnewman9693]

ahh, watched to the end!

[@codetech5598]

I don't expect Steinway to do it (tradition), but I don't understand why some of the Asian manufacturers don't make smaller keyboards.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Steinbuhler can make for a Steinway grand piano too. Agree about the asian manufacturers... but in general: It should be a default option to choose the right keyboard size that fit the pianist's hands

[@汗をかいたアヒル]

A lot of the synthesizer keyboards come from one manufacturer( Fatar) , and narrow keyboards are common up to 61 notes e.g. Korg. Perhaps. Fatar would consider marketing a controller which you could use to play Modartt pianoteq. No technician. No tuning problems. Endless variety in tweaking your piano model and it would be affordable. They might even make the black keys a little narrower.

[@n0nam3given]

Wow... you are speaking to my heart! I can barely reach C--E, while dangling over the edge, using fingers 4---1. Forget D--F# and forget E--G#. You see, I have that "pinky problem" too. And of course, hearing Fats Waller hitting those walking tenths, SOLID... just breaks my heart. So, I drove my interest more towards a more modern style, letting go of the walking-tenths. But my heart still hurts. I always thought the keyboard size was a bit arbitrary and wondered why we couldn't just shave 2-percent or even 7-percent off the thickness of EVERY key? Who would notice? (Except us with "problem pinkies")

[@nezkeys79]

Jumping / Splitting the 10th every time has always sounded cringe to me

[@hubertverhagen7341]

I encountered that problem years ago, when I bought my first keyboard. I am used to play on piano accordion with ease, but failed on the piano. Now I use piano only to exercise my hand stretching..

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Yeah. I did a lot of stretching exercise too, using the piano keyboard. It can be really helpful.

[@paskpianos]

Regarding Yuja Wang, while she would no doubt benefit from narrower keys, I'm certain that she can reach a 10th based on the repertoire she plays. This puts her hand span among the top 10-15% or so of adult women. Hand span statistics drawn from a large number of pianists indicate that around 87% of adult women and 25% of men cannot play a 10th at all. Most women struggle to play a 9th, so to give one example, Prokofiev Sonata no 6 is impossible without dropping lots of notes.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you for additional data! From what I have seen, she can reach the 10th on the edges of the keys. (The white keys). But when she plays Art Tatum, she jumps a lot.

[@douglascutler1037]

I don't know much about Yuja Wang's personality but my guess is she's gained so much success and reputation on the regular keyboard she won't be in any hurry to explore anything too exotic or unconventional. It's sometimes the the cast that the more success in a given field the more conservative one becomes.

[@davidabair2280]

In the end the guys with the larger hands on the smaller keyboard can now reach almost 2 octaves. So the folks with the smaller hands now has a new, but same, challenge to keep up with the larger hands. When does it end? I do think it's a great idea, though. I remember buying a Doctor John video and realizing my left hand could barely stretch to the 10th. It would be great if the keyboard makers got on board! Thanks for the video.

[@paskpianos]

The guys with large hands generally won't want to play the smaller size like DS5.5 as their fingers will be too thick to easily fit in the gaps between the black keys. Most people just want to be able to play octaves without pain and strain, and just reach a 10th.

[@dennisjardine5416]

I have a unusually short pinky fingers, and of course I had issues with standard keyboards. However, recently I decided to make adjustments to chord and other things so that I never ever have to play 10th or 11ths ! The good thing is that it WORKS perfectly well. Furthermore, it also challenges me to be creative with the score. I don't think that playing the 10th makes much difference anyway.

[@paulkopchak1440]

I agree 100%. There’s no reason we shouldn’t have multiple sized keyboards. I’m going to try and find one of these to test. If anyone knows where in the US they exist, let me know. I’ve been working on my 10ths for years now. It’s almost an obsession.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

I'm glad you agree. Remember there is also an electric piano that's very good: www.narrowkeys.com/ And you can reach out to PASK. paskpiano.org/ They might help you find a piano to try

[@nezkeys79]

Before I watch the video there are different sized tenths. I am a 9th person with "normal hands" but I can also comfortably reach the black to black 10ths since they are the smallest (Eb to Gb and Bb to Db) Small: black to black Medium: white to white Large: white to black and black to white A custom sized piano would probably fix all this for me but most stores don't even stock them to try it out. Its a dream to play on one of these smaller pianos EDIT: you talked about this later in the video

[@PETSWORLD_]

Question: when you play at gigs with regular sized pianos, does your playing feel off, simplified, or restricted? How do you get over this?

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Good question. I was recently playing in a Jam session with a keyboard with oversized keys. Not a problem, since I have 40 years of experience playing on regular sized keyboards. But, it is definitely a strange experience, and the “Normal“ keys are definitely not a good match. So: I prefer bringing my electric (5.5 inch octave) keyboard to all my future gigs.

[@chrisnewman9693]

are teh spaces between black keys reduced (I guess they must be?)

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Yes, slightly. Overall, the total space is reduced. All the keys are slightly slimmer than the default keyboard size. Feels amazing 🎹😃

[@barnybeatz]

We miss you boss

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you. More to come.

[@zanpouchkine]

Could this be the secret weapon of the superb South-Corean pianists we see everywhere? And Yamaha being a Japanese company would be far more interested in narrowing the keys don't you think?

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

I don't know about the superb South Corean pianists that you refer to, but Yamaha and Kawai should definitely look into the potential of more keyboard sizes.

[@TheRealDigitalDecaf]

I wish I could reach a 10th with any finger at all, I can barely reach a 9th even if I stretch using my other hand to a perfectly straight line from pinky to thumb

[@andreiter]

Does this mean you can now play any Rachmaninov piece? 🙂

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Good question, Andre. If I took the time to practice a piece, maybe yes. My priority is jazz piano, so that won't happen anytime soon. But I have transcribed music from many of the big names in jazz. Many of them were playing 10ths (and 11ths.) It is such a relief to be able to play what I hear they played without compromising!

[@Csharpflat5]

Steinway made a shorten keyboard for Josef Hofmann in the thirties, he had tiny hands, but he could also play a standard keyboard with ease as he was a virtuoso.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Yes, there are some special cases. Hopefully there will become more of them in the future.

[@paskpianos]

Hofmann could reach a 10th on the conventional keyboard, so his hands were not particularly small - just small compared with other European male virtuosos of the time. And his narrower keyboard was only slightly smaller - 6.3 inch octave...similar to what Barenboim plays today. Only about 15% of adult women can reach a 10th!

[@angelak.french9340]

Daniel Baronboim's custom piano also has a smaller keyboard

[@codetech5598]

I knew a tall thin guy who played the piano who could stretch to play the 15th (two octaves).

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

That's wild 🎹😃

[@Palindrome3945]

My friends are alcoholics or work part times at Mc Donalds

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Sorry to hear that!

[@mercuryli3872]

I can barely reach an octave LOL Very few women (according to current data only about 20%) could reach a tenth. Asian women typically have a smaller hand span comparing to Caucasian women, and my hand size is small among Asian women. My hand span is 7 inches fully stretched with pinky and thumb close to 180 degrees. I have a similar condition you have. My pinkies can stretch straight, but they are just about 1 cm shorter than what they should be.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thank you for replying. I think you would benefit a lot from a keyboard that fits your hand size. There are also people that cannot even reach an octave... They're getting their life changed when they get their hands on a keyboard with narrower keys. I now have an electric piano with narrower keys, I look out for the review video that's coming... Maybe that could be an option for you. Good luck!

[@dansanger5340]

Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense that guitars come in many sizes, but not pianos. Especially for electric pianos and keyboards this should be a no-brainer. The case and all the electronics could remain the same. Just offer three or four sizes of keybeds to slide into the case.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

@@dansanger5340 agree!

[@thenewnormaljazzensemble-nu5dv]

I so wish I could have an action that fits my hands. I don't need convincing, only $$$, which is also severely limited for women. Screw the patriarchy.

[@mojooftheg5961]

Fluidity comes into play with over spread voicings.

[@Solid_Brass]

It's annoying how the free snippets pop up and distract, as if there would be nothing of importance to show for piano players.

[@McEffinHat]

there is no cure for small hands. you just need to adjust your technique to compensate and live with the fact that your musical vocabulary will be different than someone with larger hands

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Thanks for your comment. Maybe you did not watch the full video. There is another option, which I think is far better than the old paradigm. 🎹😃 I see no reason why a little girl that can barely reach an octave have to play on the same keyboard as an adult male that can reach a 12th. There are alternatives.

[@Kiintoisa]

The 'standard male', doesn't only hurt women, but the 'non-standard' men too 🥲

[@codetech5598]

Since men are a small part of the population compared to women and children, it seems like there would be a substantial market for a piano with smaller keys to accommodate the majority of the population. It seems like a gold mine to me and I don't understand why no one has cashed in on it.

[@Gjermund-Sivertsen]

Exactly!