Glenn Gould's Mozart: A Travesty?

Glenn Gould, genius performer or instigator? In this video, we take a look at his version of Mozart's Alla Turca. Much slower than usual. But further or... closer to Mozart? Let's check.
Interested in our Beethoven V - check it out here: www.authenticsound.org/
--
🙋We need YOU to continue on (full) speed! THANK YOU for even considering becoming a patreon!▶ / authenticsound
--
Videos of Tonebase piano used:
* • Seymour Bernstein REAC...
* • I asked 6 pianists wha...
--
Our solution to the metronome problem is called the WBMP (Whole Beat Metronome Principle). Many other 19th century metronome marks is to read them in -what we believe - was the old way: in Whole Beat. In this reading, like the pendulum is still used today by physicians, the metronome ticks indicate the subdivision of the note value in the metronome mark. So you end up counting like one AND two AND three AND... That results in a different tempo yes, but a tempo that exactly matches the metronome mark given by the composer. In our current reading of these metronome marks, we are not able to do that for the simple reason most are way too fast. A logical consequence from actually doubling (yes) the intended tempo. New to the WBMP? Start here: • How Fast did Beethoven...
--
See our Beethoven's sonatas playlist here: bit.ly/BeethovenUnchained
--
📩One weekly mail in your mailbox? 👉bit.ly/as-mailinglist
--
📱 Website: ▶www.authenticsound.org

[@michaeltheophilus5260]

I absolutely despise the way pianists play the "Rondo Alla Turca" as though it is "flight of the bumblebee"

[@hoot2416]

I personally prefer the Alla Turca (to play and listen to) at a slower tempo. I dunno about Gould's tempo, but definitely not Lang Lang's.

[@nidurnevets]

There is a brief mention of Bernstein's speech to the audience before Gould performed one of the Brahms Piano Concertos. My father was a violinist in the NY Philharmonic in that era and was appalled by the speech. He believed the conductor's job was simply to follow the soloist no matter what his personal opinion was, or not conduct it at all.

[@jdbrown371]

Glenn Gould is the only pianist who on occasion plays as slow as Mr. Authentic sound would like.

[@musiclassic1]

Umm, Pogorelich.

[@8beef4u]

lmfao

[@Ernesto7608]

He is not THE ONLY PIANIST. I can play the Turkish March much slower than he did, even an octave higher or lower. So, I must be a Mr. Authentic too, ha ha.

[@oscargill423]

I love this idea that Gould, in doing something completely different from the norm, potentially reveals aspects of the original that had originally been shrouded in centuries of performance practice. By challenging the "traditional" standard, you might just find the true original. It's a shame, however, that we may never really know if Gould (or any others who followed suit) were truly closer.

[@kevinh5349]

But then again maybe he was just being weird.

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

Some of Gould's departures from the most commonly-used tempi of great works are really quite keen, but I do agree with Kevin H that many of them were really just him "being weird." His Moonlight Sonata and Appasionata tempi are fascinating, but they are really just straight up wrong from an interpretative standpoint. There's a difference between interpreting music and misrepresenting it. That is a distinction that has been all but lost today, when people commonly ridicule and disregard Beethoven's carefully-chosen tempo indications in a way that would undoubtedly infuriate him were he alive to see it.

[@Ernesto7608]

Your love is misapplied. He does not reveal "potential aspects of the original" but what his childish fancy, his compulsion to be "different", dictated at that time.

[@organman52]

You are so misinformed.

[@oscargill423]

You all call his interpretations based in childish fancy and a proclivity towards distinction, and "straight up wrong". Provide a shred of evidence that supports these arguments, and perhaps I shall consider conceding. Western Art Music is shrouded in veils of tradition and supremacy, and we must be weary of anchoring ourselves to this formless veil, the very cloud that shrouds the truth. Fortunately, historians have procured some artefacts of primary evidence from within the shroud; these are what we must base our assertions off. I hope you are all doing so. Now let us briefly suppose that Gould's interpretations truly are entirely different to the composers' intent. Even so, was that not the point? As he said, "I think that all the basic statements have been made (...) what we must do is try to find our way around these things..." He wasn't trying to follow any tradition or norm, he was actively trying to be different... and he succeeded. In the subjective world of art, a well-regarded standard of objective "good" is the artist's success at their intention, and Gould, by this metric, was undeniably successful. So, ignoring all fanciful speculation, Gould, at least, was successful in his (admittedly radical) intentions, and at best, parted some of the veil shrouding the past. Either way, in light of this, let us not scorn him for playing "wrong" in a realm where "wrong" is rarely concretely definable. Just admit that you personally don't like his style, perhaps prefer to hear Bach rather than Gould, and move on.

[@josephfleetwood3882]

I have always thought this about Gould's Alla Turka. I'm in complete agreement here. I remember talking with a professor in the Conservatoire in Glasgow about the high level of detail in Mozart's scores and how it was impossible to play in the tempos we were expected to play them. He said "Yes we all know that there is a problem but since nobody is ever going to speak about it, there's no point in us trying anything different". Well, now you're talking about it. I'm still not sure what I think of the WBMP, because I fully admit I'm entrenched in the 20th Century system. I *do* have plans to make recordings of the Mozart sonatas, the Bach Inventions and the Italian Concerto with the French Overture, and I've decided just to play at a tempo that makes musical sense to me rather than trying to match anyone else. I've been very, very surprised what happens when I allow my musical convictions to take precedence over speed. It'll be a few months before any of this happens but I will share some results with you and you might be intrigued. I know Mozart and Bach didn't have the metronome, but I've ended up playing much slower as a result. Also the playing becomes much more conversational and lyrical.

[@charlotterose6724]

I like your philosophy, Joseph. I look forward to hearing your interpretations!

[@fletchercalderbank8498]

VERY much agreed, I always played too fast, In my practice recently, musical ideas come out so much more clearly and musically at a walking pace (for 1st movements I find this applies BEST but of course everywhere)

[@josephfleetwood3882]

@@fletchercalderbank8498 Exactly. So many pianists seem to be obsessed with how fast they can play the notes and not whether they can phrase properly at speed.

[@arcturus4067]

@@josephfleetwood3882 the obsession with fast tempo could be because too many audiences marvel with regards to technique and brilliance rather than the art of the music. Some sort like " you are only a great pianist if you can execute a 'fast' piece in a phenomenally insane tempo" kind of thinking. My 2 cents

[@josephfleetwood3882]

@@arcturus4067 Certainly too many musicians are obsessed with it. But you're right, I've heard audiences criticize a performer's technique when the tempo is a bit slower than normal. It's frustrating.

[@kanfoosj]

It's pronounced "goold" like "fooled" but softer, not "gold". Other than that I 100% agree with everything. Gould's recording of the Alla Turca is one of my all time favourites. He savours each and every note, letting it shine as it should.

[@Amlink]

I have the 1981 Goldberg variations performed by Glenn Gould on my phone and I listen to the entire album during my daily walks

[@greghudon4696]

My question to the traditional thinkers is where did the traditional philosophy of having to honor the composers original interpretation come from and how do we know what in fact the composer actually intended. Who is the interpreter that gets lay down their ideas on a composers thought process ? That's why I find Goulds artistry so wonderful . I love his mozart sonatas. They are so fresh and mind provoking. Seymour is an old man immersed in traditional thoughts. That's great but not the end of the dialog.

[@pe-peron8441]

If you want to hear fresh interpretations, listen to the Mozart of Gulda, of Lévy, of Benvenutti, all people who loved Mozart deeply, and who demonstrate this in every note, while not following vain formalisms of classicism but interpreting in a bold, nervous and in my opinion also realistically much closer to an eventual Mozart original than the aseptic gracelessness that often corrodes interpretations of his works. In Gould's ones there is nothing pleasant, positive or remotely estimable: they are the vacuous ravings of an idiot, worth nothing more than the emmiferious provocation for which they were conceived: the repulsive work of a capricious and annoying child, not of a great pianist, nor even of a true lover of music; and even to speak of Gould is an insult to all the myriads of extraordinary interpreters who have been there and who have devoted their lives to trying to make the world a better place, unlike the spastic spiteful Canadian full of hatred and lack of talent

[@esalinasml]

Seymour was about the beauty and he was, give or take, a purist. Gould was about distortion and experimentation. Both minds are needed. If everyone was like Gould nothing would ever be persevered. If everyone was like Seymour nothing would be pushed to new limits of creativity.

[@pineapple7024]

@@esalinasml Exactly, artists like Gould, Pogorelich, and Lang Lang at least TRY to experiment. Pushing the envelope should be ENCOURAGED because it’s how music advances, but the perfection of what has already been established is a different kind of art. They shouldn’t even be comparable, in my opinion, because they’re intentionally diverting from one another

[@vincenttong1764]

The problem is I find Gould to perhaps be deliberately doing these distortions on purpose, so that there is a contrived insincerity to him --Too busy drawing attention to himself, just because he can.

[@NidusFormicarum]

We should be faithful to the music - not the composer.

[@lindy7985]

The most valuable lesson that I learned from Glen Gould was that there is some flexibility in how one can interpret and play Bach.

[@777rogerf]

Not many musicians can bring great masterpieces of composition alive. Gould is one musician with this gift. hat does not means that every musician who has this gift will crank out an identical, machine made version, because the audience changes, and so the performance to some degree. Just my take on the subject.

[@YunusOzturks]

Gould was a scientist. Some of his interpretations were really terrible but he was a revolutionary pianist which created a new path for the music. And for me as well, gouldberg variations are still gouldberg variations...

[@zerois2801]

Indeed a person who explored the unknown, a true scientists A like many experiments some of them failed, but when it succeeds it’s revolutionary

[@crimeancomposer]

What do you think about lang Lang goldberg variations

[@benr7882]

The Chopin… Oh the Chopin!!

[@gwojcieszczuk]

Glenn Gould, was actually born as Glenn Gold. Later his family name was changed to Gould. Coincidence?

[@neonneooneeon3960]

Well put. Anyhow, what history needs is not perfection, but revolution, and Gould is truly a revolutionist in classical music.

[@martinrios4748]

I dont like mozart, but i do like goulds interpretations of mozarts music.

[@JSB2500]

Me likewise.

[@jarodvmusic]

Very interesting point of view with a lot of evidence to back it. You did a great job making this video.

[@gregfaris6959]

I agree. I find Gould's interpretations very frustrating to listen to, but this musicologist make an outstanding case through convincing and well-substantiated argument.

[@blackvinylgrooves]

Fascinating analysis. It's a shame Gould never composed his own music. I have a couple of 1954-55 recording by Gould on CBC radio transcriptions, predating his first commercial recordings. Very interesting glimpses of the eary Gould. I also have original pressings of almost all of Gould's Columbia LPs. I agree the 1981 Bach recordings are arguably his best recordings. Gould was definitely decades ahead of his time. Don't forget Gould's transcriptions, of symphonies,and, yes, operatic works. What could Gould have done had he been born a couple of decades later ? One can only speculate...

[@joshvigranmusic]

He did compose! You should check out his string quartet. He also composed some fugues, and there are a few recordings of him improvising

[@Ernesto7608]

He had all the right in the world to play his own compositions the way his weirdness chose. But other people's compositions, especially that of a genius like Mozart, he should have respected the wishes of the composer, not his fancy. He was a very troubled individual.

[@asherwade]

I just wish Glenn Gould had performed and recorded a all of Bach’s transcriptions which were made by other composers. I mean, I too am a Bach Purist, …but, hey!, there really doesn’t have to be a limit; 🫢

[@dorfmanjones]

If I remember correctly, what Seymour objected to was the first bar of the 1st movement, wherein Glenn employed an anacrusis to get to bar two. Bernstein prefers a diminuendo on the last note of the bar. It wasn't specifically that it was too slow, (although that may be also true.) The effect of the double beat theory, wherein the semiquaver becomes in effect a quaver, and the quaver a crotchet, etc. is that in adagios, when we're often dealing in slow tempos as well as minims and semibreves, is that the music loses all connectivity, especially in keyboard music, where the note starts to decay immediately. It also becomes impossible to sustain sound when singing. Very fast and very slow music becomes nonsensical and impractical, both.

[@normangensler7380]

Am I the only one who finds Bernstein's protestations about Gould's playing more about ego than musical "correctness"? "I hear Gould, not Bach!" So stay home and safe, Seymour. We don't all worship at the same musical altars.

[@caracolrojo]

I've been playing that piece at Gould's tempo since way before even knowing who Gould was. I found that, when teaching, it's really important to differentiate between a musical, artistic performance and a flashy, acrobatic, artistic one; there's a choice. Whatever you do, do it right.

[@leonardovmusic]

Great content, thanks for this video. I don't agree with Gould with some things but I admire his artitic vision, and guts. He is one of my music heroes and he is one of the greatest of all time. Mr. Bernstein went a little too far with his opinion (to me anyways).

[@normangensler7380]

I heard many works first by Glenn Gould. This explains why I easily embraced his interpretations as genuine. Others' versions now sound odd after a liftime of hearing Gould.

[@Rene-uz3eb]

Can you go after opera next? I think back in the day they used to have perfectly normal singing voices without special ‘training’ that gives off this nasal sound we hear today.

[@Ianthe22]

It's true what you are saying about note values and the tempo of playing used to be slower. It's a known notation problem. It also happened in older music like in gregorian traditions for example. I have in general the last 25 years been trying to make people sing slower in some churches. During this time i have found out that it also changes between rewrites and translations of psalms. An example would be if you take a Bach psalm and translate it to another language. One would imagine that it changed tempo due to new trends, among other things, but sometimes it is just the language itself that makes it more suited to being sung in another tempo. Even though our churches have tried to make some standards for how fast these psalms should be sung still varies from organist to organist. What i am trying to say is that there are many reasons why pieces are changed through time. The competition between composers and musicians in classical traditions are very, very fierce at times. Especially among musicians whose profession is to play, it's known that they would alter tempo and playing to make it more complex and faster, in order to increase the difficulty of the performance. Regarding Mozart, Even though he is known to fool around in his own demonstrations and alter the tempo of his pieces as a jest, he is also known to be a master in writing marvelous pieces that conjures up imageries in our mind. Now, would he write a piece that expresses the beauty of the march as you said in the video, or would he write something that is like a toy soldier of that version that is on "speed"(the drug)?? Personally i think about the setting it was written in. It's probably more towards the slower tempo that GG proposes, but slightly faster and more quirky(definitely more quirky. It's a dance after all!!).

[@ronl7131]

Inimitable GG, quirky, but always worth a careful listen. To some, idiosyncratic; to others, remarkably unique. Technique to burn&could clearly demonstrate his ideas and allow folks into his Sound Worlds

[@Peter-x2exz]

I am listening to this video at .25 speed. I find it to be much more authentic and in accord with Wim's original intention.

[@ttrons2]

The only thing written in stone is the actual notes not how they are connected. Bernstein is one that fosters boredom in most people when it comes to the classics.

[@patrickpaganini]

Very interesting video of the Turkish dance! I find the slow Beethoven symphony tempo's a bit challenging I must say. But an example of a slower tempo on record is Grunfeld (who knew J Strauss) playing Voices of Spring, Frühlingsstimmen ... it's incredibly beautiful and elegant, which rather contradicts performances even soon after like Szell VPO in 1932 who goes much faster, and although exciting, loses a huge amount of Grunfeld's expression.

[@gregfaris6959]

Gould was nothing if not idiosyncratic. I believe he was genuine in his idiosyncrasy - he was not trying to make a show out of being different. He just "was" different, and this was the way the music flowed through him. He was a bent pipe.

[@gwojcieszczuk]

Glen Gould is one of not-too-many-pianists that had his unique sound and quality. I don't need to know who's playing. If it's Glen's rendition, I will be able to recognise it immediately.

[@tr7938]

I sincerely doubt that. If another pianist wanted to impersonate him I'm sure you would be powerless to distinguish. I'm a pianist, BTW.

[@pamelafrancis4476]

I agree, I would know if Clara Haskil was playing Scarlatti, etc. Glenn Gould has a quality of absolute purity and evenness which no-one matches exactly.

[@p.muskett2931]

Gould’s rendition of Mozart’s concerto 24 is actually really good

[@anonymousl5150]

He hated the 1st movement of that concerto (apparently liked the others) and even dedicated the "How Mozart became a bad composer" doc to it. Nevertheless critics of his time actually loved that performance. I think most of his Mozart is actually quite good and closer to the fortepiano articulation conception.

[@pe-peron8441]

@@anonymousl5150 When I think of Gould sometimes I wonder how fucking stupid a man can be, and especially one who has dedicated his entire life to music. It seems almost paradoxical. That someone could go so far as to fail to understand the extraordinary grandeur of the overture of K491, especially one who is supposed to be one of the greatest pianists of all time, and, more importantly, not a classicist but a heterodox avant-gardist, a lover not of tradition but of novel interpretations and musical modernism, is truly incomprehensible to me

[@anonymousl5150]

@@pe-peron8441 Glenn Gould was far more intelligent than you, and his reasoning for the most part is always justified. Most of Mozart's repertoire is honestly, quite overrated. Meanwhile almost everyone from Gould's era ignored the really important Bach works like the plague, so clearly if you want to direct a lack of understanding it should go in that direction to most other musicians.

[@BenjaminAnderson21]

​@@anonymousl5150 Glenn Gould is probably infinitely more intelligent than everyone here in the comments section in many ways I agree, but I'll have to side with Peron here that he could often be an eccentric idiot as well. The only possible justifications you can come up with for his Appassionata and Moonlight Sonata recordings, for example, is that they are "bold" or "fresh" or "fascinating" (which I wouldn't disagree with in the slightest). From an interpretative standpoint though, they, quite frankly, suck, and there is little doubt that Beethoven would hate them were he still alive. And yes, I also agree with you that many of Mozart's works are very unremarkable in that they were mass-produced without the intention of being anything significant or profound. That's not to say they were low-quality--it's just that they aren't anything special, either. This isn't because Mozart was a "bad composer" though, but rather because his livelihood relied on producing music that was easily palatable to the aristocratic public. The pieces in which Mozart steps out of that safe comfort zone and is allowed to be his cheeky (or passionate) self are always the best.

[@anonymousl5150]

@@BenjaminAnderson21 What do you think is so wrong with the Appassionata and Moonlight sonata? Tempo choice? Well goodness no one knows exactly what tempo Beethoven had in mind did he? Hardly wrote metronome markings and even the few that had them are controversial and never followed. Dynamic markings don't deviate any more than the average performer.

[@ZoltanTemesvari_temy]

I love that some people today can claim to know with absolute certainty what Mozart's or Bach's intentions were about how to play their music.

[@pamelafrancis4476]

In a sense the composer is like an artist trying to be faithful to a visual subject, the music "visits" the composer and he does his best to transcribe it in musical language. Then the performer recreates the composer's conception. Music does not belong to anyone alone but to all.

[@Video-Montage92]

merci très bonne vidéos

[@francoisdesnoyers3042]

Gould made the greatest version of the Mozart sonatas. I didn't think so at first, but then I was completely convinced by its freshness and intensity.

[@codonauta]

Seymour have listened to Gould playing the prelude in C minor, from WTC I? It’s gorgeous, with a lot of subleties there. Or the movement one of Partita 6? There are a lot of 2 and 3 parts invention that Gould really killed playing too fast, but did he hear the two parts invention in C minor? Usually, when Gould plays slowly, the result is very beautiful, the opposite that Seymour said. For example, the Lisz’t arrangment for piano solo from movement 2 of Beethoven’s symphony 6. It’s more slow than we usually hear in orchestral recordings and it’s gorgeous. I like the Seymour’s approach in his classes, he has great insights, but it’s weird and frivolous to say ‘nothing’ that Gould plays is beautiful.

[@kunfupapa8162]

I stick with what Vladimir Horowitz used to declare : "The formal interpretation is invented. Everything is invented; by the public, by artists. Nobody knows how it is supposed to sound.". He also talked about making music with "good taste" which is, again, a very subjective assessment.Therefore, I can't say if Glenn Gould is a travesty to Mozart's music... This is a definitive judgment that would end any further investigation or appreciation. I think that every interpretation becomes interesting as soon as some heart is put into it. Another question would be : Do we need to establish standards ? Bernstein says "There are some certain things that are written in stone" and I disagree because I think this is the best to way to kill creativity. In fact, some people consider that interpretation doesn't need creativity because the composers already created something that should bear no alteration, out of "respect". But, we're not talking about reproduction of paintings... Pianists are not copyists. In itself, a music score is not a complete work of art... it needs sound and life and creativity to become one. Otherwise, we might as well listen to MIDI files played by computers. Or listen to human computers like the ones that win piano contests everyday. I know musicians that read music all day long. What they hear in their head is perfection. But reading a score is already an interpretation. Nobody knows how it is supposed to sound.

[@sofarsogouldgg7294]

0:50 I ABSOLUTELY AGREE ...that second performance is Goulds "goodbye" to the world ...and it's just unbelievable.

[@joeldumont9528]

Très intéressant. Je pense néanmoins que la question essentielle n'est pas de retrouver la manière dont le compositeur avait voulu que ce soit jouer (tempo d'époque), mais plutôt de trouver comment aujourd'hui nous ressentons authentiquement au mieux telle ou telle musique (tempo sincère).

[@andrzejzborowski4920]

I love Glenn Gould's interpretation of Allegro Alla Turca. So differetn. No speed but every note is important.

[@ClassicTopWilliam]

Glenn Gould estaba muy conectado a eso extraño a lo que se le puede llamar "consciencia no local".

[@4mebach]

I love everything Glenn performed. I believe he brought the true voice of the music to the surface. And yes, his Rondo Alla Turk was in sync with the marching soldiers.

[@beakt]

Wow, I admire you so much more now. I absolutely fell in love with Gould when I first heard of him in the 1990s. And his Goldberg Variations are incredible. Bernstein's entitled to his opinion, but it’s never impressed me when some pianist smugly points out what he thinks is wrong with him, especially when he’s not around to defend himself. Glenn was a genius, artistically and technically. You didn't show the clip, but he also said “I feel like I’m listening to Gould, not Bach” which was especially stupid. As if when he listens to Schiff or Hewitt or Tureck it’s exactly how Bach played it. And why would that be of any use?

[@Smileater]

This video made me subscribe to your Channel. I really appreciate your objectivity

[@dantrizz]

Out of interest how would you see the notation being given for this piece. It's 2/4 so would you see it as a 4/8 with 2 notes per pulse or as the crochet as the pulse as if it were a common time cut in half? Or would it be like a scaled down alla breva that is in 2/4 where the quavers are like the crochets in a cut time piece? Also how many chords changes per bar would you expect in a standard notation?

[@josallins1]

OMG! Just, IN - JOY! 🎶 💜

[@trevorpsy]

In all pieces of note there are a plethora excellent, traditional recordings. This leaves room for experimentation, the quality of which is measured by whether it "works" based on its own. internal merits.

[@pyraminxer7502]

Fascinating musician and topic! By the way, i really like your background brick wall. the candle lighting makes it all very relaxing - like a step back into history. thank you.

[@antoniavignera2339]

Grazie per aver trattato questi argomenti.Gould con la marcia turca fantastico l’immagine abbinata,anche il tempo l’indicazione Beethoven . Complimenti !

[@BodilessVoice]

I'm with you! The Gould '81 Goldberg is the most important recording in the history of sound recording. He saw the future, and we all have much to learn from him.

[@panimbryk]

This was a fascinating video! Thank you!

[@LambentOrt]

He was an odd duck. But what an amazing duck!

[@incurromunio7797]

I greatly enjoy your videos! Time to go and practice some more.

[@danielcliment8251]

Dumb question here, at what point in history did composers started to write down how fast or slow their music was meant to be played?

[@alfredofranco]

19th Century. But conventions had a major role. I

[@fepeerreview3150]

The speed of a piece of music is called "tempo". Johann Maelzel invented the 'metronome' in the beginning of the 1800s. This provided a precise, mathematical precision. Beethoven was among the first composers to use an "MM" marking. Before and after that, even up to today, it is common to use the Italian descriptors such as "Adagio" or "Allegretto". Of course, these do not provide strict, mathematical precision. They convey character, a large part, but not all of which has to do with the speed of performance. Before the 1600s it is unusual to find any indication of tempo. In the 1600s they are found fairly often on manuscripts. In the 1700s they become the norm, with most manuscripts showing them. By the 1800s it is unusual to find a manuscript without a tempo marking.

[@JSB2500]

@dejuren That's the spirit! 🙂

[@goognamgoognw6637]

I don't think that Seymour deserves to be in the same video as Glenn Gould.

[@Eli-mi7io]

Thanks for the subtitles in portuguese

[@jamesmasonic]

In your about section contact link needs to be updated

[@777rogerf]

I find that not many performers can bring the works of the great master's alive, and is that not the ultimate aim and measure? Thanks for drawing our attention to Gould's performances, because I found that Gould often brings the music alive, and a bit rubs off if we are open to it.

[@dkant4511]

Desert island recording I would bring: Gould Bach Keyboard Concertos. The clinical sterility of Gould juxtaposed against Vladimir Golschmann's warm romantic sound is a chemistry I'll never get tired of!

[@Pogouldangeliwitz]

"Clinical sterility" - you obviously need to be sent to a desert island asap. One way ticket!

[@dkant4511]

@@Pogouldangeliwitz ye classical snoods all need to get waterboarded until the hubris gets choked out of y'all. Gould's Schoenberg is the only thing I can take seriously. With Schoenberg somehow that "clinical sterility" either disappears or is fitting!

[@dkant4511]

BTW if you think sounding like a Midi file warms the heart then you need to have your head examined.

[@johnmilner3030]

However, Glenn Gould played the Goldberg Variations much faster when he was young. Perhaps someone remembers the video (now gone?) with the M. C. Escher thumbnail, this was a 1959-ish recording.

[@Simrealism]

My deepest insight into Gould's musical motivation came while watching him torment elephants at the zoo.

[@Ezekiel_Pianist]

This video is groundbreaking Wim your work is magnificent!

[@ChoBee333]

I loved Glenn glould’s Appassionata.

[@8beef4u]

The only issue is that for almost all of these pieces the composers wrote, they did not write down metronome markings. They usually are added after the fact but someone else. It doesn't make much of a case for either side of the debate. I think the most reasonable interpretation of these markings is pretty simple: since there is a claimed convention change between single and double beat, unless everyone changed at the same time there were people who meant double beat and late adopters who meant single beat going on for some time (perhaps forever). Therefore neither interpretation should be accepted and pieces should be looked at on a case by case basis, such as the Alla Turca.

[@Rene-uz3eb]

Omg think Beethoven’s fifth played at half speed: he wasn’t a rocker after all

[@Carvin0]

I was once enamored of Gould. But then I was a naive kid. I grew out of him and heard many, many others. I learned how to listen and hear subtlety. Now Gould seems grotesque, crude, and self-indulgent. Playing for himself. Dealing with his own hangups. I don't have Gould's hangups, so for me Gould puts the emPHAsis on the wrong syLAble. Comments gushing over Gould by people who probably haven't listened carefully to others is annoying.

[@ssvemuri]

Wonderfully informative. Glenn Gould was a true visionary.

[@TheGloryofMusic]

I'm sure I dislike Gould's Beethoven even more than his Mozart. Seymour should have listened to the Bach Partitas, which are indeed beautiful performances.

[@randycalifornia]

Glenn Gould's podcast youtube channel... I need that in my life

[@KKIcons]

Bruce Cross channel has a lot of great interviews with GG and GGs own interviews he conducted with personalities such has Stockowski.

[@asherwade]

I find it interesting how you pronounce Glenn’s last {or, family} name, it’s almost sounding like you’re saying Gold instead of Gould (pronounced: Gooold). You do know that his father change the family name from Gold to Gould, because of the high level of antisemitism in Canada at the time, and he did not wish to be mis-identified as a Jew, and documentation shows that his family was not Jewish [even though some people like to think that maybe he was].

[@esalinasml]

Seymour was about the beauty a gave he was give a take a purist. Gould was about distortion and experimentation. Both minds are needed. If everyone was like Gould nothing would ever be persevered. If everyone was like Seymour nothing would be pushed to new limits of creativity.

[@lshin80]

Actually Gould's version of Alla Turca and Goldberg Variations are the only ones I feel to be correct and I can listen to. I can't tell whether he was aware of whole beat or he just felt he had to play like that, but for me he nailed it.

[@quinto34]

The idea that music is written in stone is foolish, Mozart would disagree..you can dislike anything you want of course, that's the whole point

[@robh9079]

Surely it is up to the performer whether they decide firstly to honour the composers intentions, or do what they want with it - and why should it even be 'beautiful'. What right (barr the composer?) has anyone to damn any well thought out and executed interpretation. We should call these 'rightous police' 'Interpretol' (after Interpol).

[@A.P235]

[9:21] „That speed not particularly sounds as an Allegretto that Mozart originally gave for it” Yes, because Moscheles CHANGED the original indication from Allegretto to an *Allegro* - the fact that was left unmentioned in the video and was deliberately ignored throughout your whole „analysis”. (Why does it not surprise me?) 160BPM for quarter note might „not sound as Allegretto that Mozart intended” because it wasn’t designated by Mozart, and it wasn’t meant to correspond with an Allegretto.

[@lolsup9817]

I find this information about the metronome very interesting. I would love to see some more analysis of how pieces really are supposed to sound (hammerklavier for example or other Beethoven works) using this different rule of counting.

[@romulo-mello]

Wow, you really lightened up Gould for me, extremely good content!

[@ThePianiolist]

When the video started I was like I didn’t Matt Walsh got into the classical music scene

[@fletchercalderbank8498]

The what is a woman guy? 😂

[@donmc1950]

Many modern compositions are based on local folk songs . I wonder what the original author of these folk songs would think of these modern renditions, or what an AI rendition would do to them?

[@MimiProduction1994]

Interesting, but at the same time, some Turkish marching band music have pretty fast tempo too. Like this one right here, starts off with slower tempo, and then it speed up to around double the tempo in second half kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4DcnKd8f9Rni7M

[@leumasarc4180]

So.... what does this whole metronome theory mean? Every metronome marking from the classical era is meant to be interpreted as half of its value, today? If so, when did this convention stop? It seems hard to believe.

[@jpknijff]

The answer to the second questions is Not all, but very many. The answer to the third question: Later than you might think. And yes, it is hard to believe at first.

[@achaley4186]

Brilliant as always! 🙂⭐🙏🏼❤

[@robinsonmarks]

Home run!

[@douglasdickerson5184]

💙💙💙

[@Zaleskee]

Magisterial!!, Maestro Winters!!

[@rachmahler7999]

What about his disaster on sonata 8 and 12

[@_conchobhar_]

i think if i remember correctly, gould hated the classical era and columbia wanted him to record all of the mozart sonatas. his playing is so aggregious because it was out of spite. he just played the notes on the page, it sounds like midi rather than actual playing.

[@hori166]

Glenn Gould (pronounced [guld] not [gold] because he wasn't Jewish even though he behaved in a stereotypically Jewish manner)...love him or hate him! A very thought-provoking video that raises all sorts of issues ranging from the tempo of an actual Mehter marsi, artistic freedom, and changing musical tastes over time. Superimposing the allaTurca over a Janissary parade is absolutely brilliant. Does this then mean that Bach and Handel compositions that are based on dance forms, e.g. a Bourrée, should be played at a danceable tempo? I find that many authentic instrument performances play much too fast. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. In the end, if one doesn't like an interpretation find one that suits one's taste and enjoy that. There are hundreds of "The Four Seasons" to choose from.

[@Mike1614b]

I'd say Bernstein was full of himself, but I wouldn't want to slight him

[@benprice4527]

Interesting Wim, I personally believe that everyone has a different interpretation, for example I finish minute in G with a slow aggerio. On the other hand, if I am playing it front of Elena, I just play with the chord. Anyway great video as always Wim.

[@michaelnancyamsden7410]

As an amateur musician, I do not think we can know the composers intent however the music speaks to something in the heart. So many pieces are played so rapidly the ear/mind cannot process or enjoy the harmonics and the hidden melodic lines. You interpretation of Cm prelude is enlightening. For me there is a tension and grief with agitation which resolves in a resolute, determined "I can overcome." Good to hear your wisdom hoping for more insights.

[@pamelafrancis4476]

I believe there is a perfect tempo for every piece and when you hear it you know because the music literally makes sense like someone talking clearly.

[@povilzem]

It's not "Alla Turca", it's "Turkish March". One does not play a march at 160 bpm. It's literally twice as... Oh.

[@catherineloriotahahah6614]

GOULD = extra terrestre

[@benjamMin278]

Brilliant. Gould was a genius in all respects. 💙

[@eytansuchard8640]

The question is whether Mozart ever had access to the martial Turkish dance. It is possible, if Mozart saw a play in which there was such a dance. It is a piece of evidence with which you will win the argument.

[@elzbietasajka8830]

forget about study time! they didn't make anyone a champion! They only allowed us to understand that what style it will be, it lies only in the person, their character and personality. Most professors would be happy if all their students played the same way...

[@martijnthomas6017]

Erg leuke video!!

[@CanuckFluter]

Glenn gould was the human midi machine.

[@he1ar1]

Gould could play as fast as anyone but chose not to. Why? Gould was not a public performer. His only intension was recording what he wanted to hear.

[@tonyhauserguitarist4080]

Wonderful.

[@beakt]

Great research on that Turkish military march. Brilliant.

[@akbarbekboev8971]

Horowitz played alla turca in the quite same rhythm, so I would say that the example is incorrect, moreover Seymour Bernstein hasn’t mentioned nothing about Goulds alla turca…. So I can’t get for what is pretending author?

[@leaf_robinson]

I think that Glenn Gould woud make a great Komtur 😆😆

[@teodorojaranilla5008]

and the second speaker is CORRECT...just watch TURKISH FILMS...(i particularly avidly followed the "MAGNIFICENT CENTURY" (turkish production...superb) shoewing EXACTLY the JANISSARIES...(royal guard".) in the music in the Ottoman empire...

[@alanledzep1967]

All I can say is thank you ❤️