Retro TT Vs Modern Superbike 2: Is Greg LeMond's Old Bike Faster?!

Recently we tested a retro time trial bike against a modern superbike, and rather unsurprisingly the superbike easily won. But what about a bike just a few years newer, a TT bike with the latest innovation, the tri bar? We borrowed one of Greg LeMond's retro TT bike to find out whether that bike can finally beat a modern superbike!
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[@gcn]

Which of these bikes would you choose to ride?

[@toddh4491]

Love to ride Greg's amazing bike (he's a real American hero) but it would kill me.

[@nukedathlonman]

I'd love to kick it old school style... I'd need to do some serious training though and even then I don't think I could bring any honor to the racing heritage given my vintage. :'(

[@glennpettersson9002]

Even though I'm married to a physio I think 🤔 the modern bike looks more survivable in the long term.

[@Philobiblion]

Canyon. I rode the aero a couple of times back about '92 or '93 and narrowly escaped death. If you need to slow down in a hurry you're likely to soil yourself before you find the brakes.

[@ianfurqueron5850]

Definitely the modern bike. My current road bike is a mid 90's Colnago and I've reached the point where the 25c tires (largest that will fit and clear the chain stays and fork) are just brutal to ride on vs. the 32c tires on my "all road" bike. I do prefer the lower riding position of the Colnago, so at some point in 2023 I'll likely be shopping for a new, modern road bike.

[@ukaszzyka6279]

In Polish aero bars are even called "lemondka", which translates roughly to "Lemond's" :D

[@gcn]

Wow, we did not know that. Very cool!

[@colinricketts1415]

that Lemond rear wheel sounds amazing, thats got to be worth 20watts just for sounding fast?

[@FlatSpinMan]

Fairly sure that’s how it works, yeah.

[@tflspitfire]

oh shit, ive been listening to music on my solo rides, so all the gains from my new aero wheels arent even there when i cant hear them??

[@ayleyleynes6965]

Greg lemond's bike... what a timeless beauty

[@Cesar-cm4if]

Agreed! Something to also keep in mind while riding bikes are helmets. Most people wear cpsc helmets (which arent safe), when they should be actually wearing an nta helmet like xnito or bern

[@fsharp_com]

I had a pair of the Scott clip ons on my road bike back in the late 80s. Loved them!

[@johan21mp]

I'd love to see a Modern TT bike vs Retro TT bike. Or maybe even a Classic Cinelli track racer versus the Lotus/Argon18 "Rocketships" of today. Could even add something like the Lotii of the 90's Just to see just how much faster bike tech has gotten, and how much slower riders would be

[@maxw5229]

That's probably not a thing the sponsors would like -.-

[@simondavis697]

Proud to say that I was there on the final day of the 89 TdF and witnessed history in the making!

[@richardstewart5499]

Ditto! Our USAF Club out of Hahn Air Base (Rheinland-Plfalz) stayed in Versailles for that epic stage. The crowd gasped when LeMond came flying by after Delgado went by. Awesome day!

[@garysladek9110]

Also there, hitchhike from Munich, on the way to a buddies in Canterbury.

[@gcn]

That must have been an amazing experience!

[@simondavis697]

@@gcn It was. I was sat aloft the Golden Joan of Arc statue (now cordoned off to the public on race day), just as the riders came out of the underpass. At the finish line, Greg’s mechanic allowed me to hold his TT bike above my head for photos! Sadly, you can rarely get that level of access these days.

[@TheGotoGeek]

I had to watch it on The Wide World of Sports, but later that year I was in Paris and saw Fignon swaggering in Monmartre. I think the man was incapable of merely walking.

[@RAWnikon2208]

The friction between Si and Ollie in this video is the same as trying to ride a 32c tyre in a 90s road frame 😳

[@gcn]

The battle to be the _aero-est_ GCN presenter!! 🤣

[@darinbusse7591]

The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.

[@ronm9357]

The first pros to use tri-bars (aero TT bars) in a TT were the 7-Eleven pros in the _second_ and final TT of the 1989 Tour de Trump. Lemond took note and along with the 7-Eleven team used them two months later in the Tour de France. And I don't think it's true that Lemond was convinced to use the bars mid TDF. At the time, I remember watching an interview with him where he said he noticed the amateur racers -- while the 7-Eleven riders were the first _pros_ to use them, the amateurs in the TDT used them in the first TT of the TDT -- use them in the '89 Tour de Trump and saw the advantage they provided. He no doubt had been using the bars well before he used them in TDF two months later.

[@chaptravels]

I agree with you ... I am fairly certain both Lemond and some of the 7-Eleven guys used the Scott aero bars in the earlier TT stage in the 1989 Tour.

[@darinbusse7591]

You are correct. The 7-Eleven team were experimenting with aero bars made by Profile for Speed. They were going to pull them out at the Tour de France in 1989 as their secret weapon. They ended up using them in the Tour de Trump that May because Dag Otto Lauritzen held a narrow lead going into the final time trial, and the 7-Eleven team were trying to take top team honors. Greg took notice of how fast the 7-Eleven team was in that TT. He practiced with them before the Tour. Look at photos of his TT bike in the prologue of 1989. The finish on the Cow horn bars is worn off a bit from the clamps of the TT bars. Greg used the TT bars in the 3 TT's in the tour (minus the prologue). They experimented with the length, and angle and armrests at each TT. Still, an amazing decision to go with the bars. The rest, as they say, is history.

[@ronm9357]

@@darinbusse7591 yeah, but the first to use tri-bars in a pro TT were US _amateurs_ . Kent Bostick used them to get on the podium on stage 7 of the '89 TDT. And Lemond credited the amateurs with opening his eyes to the aero advantage of tri-bars. I'm sure 7-Eleven using them in the TDT final TT helped, but I doubt he'd -- at least while racing -- credit his pro rivals with that revelation. 😅

[@darinbusse7591]

@@ronm9357 Good memory! I do remember that now that you mention it. Thank you for the reminder that Kent Bostick did use aero bars in the TT in the middle of the Tour de Trump.

[@ronm9357]

@@darinbusse7591 I had about 5 hours of that race on VHS -- footage from both NBC and ESPN. I watched and re-watched it _way_ more than I like to admit.

[@richardhall4830]

That's the 1990 machine, lemond rode his 89 tt on a bottecchia. in 1991 he wasn't on a low profile machine at the tour. He's also trained extensively on the bars prior to the 89 tour, he used them in the first long TT and mountain TT but not the prologue. 7 elevan had been using the bars in the tour of Italy.

[@redrocker1055]

Greg Lemond is criminally overlooked as one of the greatest ever. The man has the greatest comeback story in the history of the sport and if not for that freak accident and him being used and lied to by his team he'd easy have the most Tour de France victories. The man was an absolute animal.

[@stevecooper7038]

😂

[@gcn]

Coming back from the accident alone was some achievement!

[@colinricketts1415]

Over looked by who? I think the fans and the riders of the time appreciate him and his legacy. His reputation took a hit from not buying in on what Armstrong was doing, so Trek tried to push him out to protect their main interests.

[@martingiguere1202]

He was also unfairly treated by the ENTIRE cycling community for daring saying Lance Armstrong was clearly doped when every sign pointed to it and kept to his word

[@petyrkowalski9887]

He was amazing

[@glennpettersson9002]

I have some Lamondies in my shed, I had no idea of the history. Perhaps a challenge for GCN Tech is to make the fastest time trial bike they can using 90's tech with modern thinking.

[@EMC2Scotia]

Is that accurate, the part of Boone Lennon convincing Lemond mid-race to use the bars? I had read he had noticed them at the Tour de Trump being used by 7-Eleven, and had kept them under wraps until the stage 5 TT, which he won to announce, as Liggett said at the time his ''return to the top flight of cycling''. He then used them in the next two TT's, as we all know to eventually win the Tour.

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

Exactly. When the presenters essentially said he only used them on the final TT stage, that contradicted the many hours I'd spent watching footage from that tour.

[@the.dove.effect]

Completely unfair competition. You guys left the water bottle on the Greg LeMond bike! Haha. Great video.

[@secretagent86]

well done gents. to me this is the best video GCN has done. I was a junior TT racer in the 1970s. Aero was "bend down" lol. the history tidbits about the last minute fitting and never used before was mind blowing!!! one thing i would LOVE to learn more about is ... Lemond had the fastest TT in the TDF until Ganna beat it on a short TT. More recently Wout Van Aert...Van Aert crossed the finish line with a blistering average speed of 50.9 kph. The 41.7-kilometer stage from Lacapelle-Marival to Rocamadour was the longest individual time trial since 2014. but lemond...LeMond finished with a time of 26:57 minutes, the fastest-ever time trial in the history of the Tour, at 54.545 km/h (33.893 mph). As LeMond collapsed on the floor from exhaustion, Fignon made his way to the finish. a detailed analysis of the difference, estimated power outputs. how is it possible that Lemond's TT has stood the test of time??? I understand his VO2 max was 92.5 (super high but not an athletic record). no i DO NOT think LeMond was a drug cheater. just an amazing rider. but throw in a mix of LeMond, Merckx, Armstrong (yes yes I know, but still amazing athlete...but i do NOT respect his lies), and now Dan Bingham.... now that would be incredibly interesting. 49.431 km In 1972, Eddy Merckx set a new hour record at 49.431 km (30.715 mi) in Mexico City at an altitude of 2,300 m (7,500 ft) where he proclaimed it to have been "the hardest ride I have ever done". will LOVE seeing the Lotus superbike. HUGE THANK YOU TO THE BIKE OWNER

[@billkallas1762]

Wasn't LeMond's TT slightly downhill, or flat, all the way?

[@gcn]

Thanks so much! 👍

[@bikeyclown4669]

Their comments about the gears reminds me of common gearing on bicycles (particularly racing bicycles) of that era. I like the way bicycles are geared now, and so do my knees. Bernard Hinault had knee problems during his career and was known to spin the pedals at about 90 rpm. Hinault's knee issues may have had their origins someplace else, but I can't help but wonder, if the large gears he pushed didn't at least exacerbate an already existing problem.

[@jason200912]

The only time you get knee problems are if you set the seat too low or at medium height

[@HkFinn83]

@@jason200912agree, it’s repetitive strain that’s the issue with cycling, if that’s an issue at all. The difference between a big gear and a small gear on a bike just isn’t enough to be a likely injury cause.

[@ethangodridge6833]

Great video guys and roll on the next part. A story I can remember LeMond saying before that TT. He said before it he saw Fignon already celebrating the tour win. LeMond said that gave him the extra drive to show his opponent to not be arrogant.

[@lunam7249]

Thx 4 the story

[@derf9465]

Had a shorter with a 650c front wheel and my knees would come up to my chest back in the late 90's. So fast.

[@Keifsanderson]

I understand the purity of pedal-powered shootouts, but seeing clearly how it can be difficult to remove power output as a variable, I would love to see a comparison in a wind tunnel, or with electric motors to lay down consistent and identical power.

[@trevoradams7225]

Ya at least a power meter on both to have an avg watts to determine a different avg speed

[@matthewbaynham6286]

How much of an aero penalty on Lemonds bike, was that water bottle?

[@derekhicks8250]

His average speed for that tt was 54.4kph, which would be a very fast tt today! He also used the Aero bars in the first 2 tt's of the tour that year. The coke can shimming was done after stage 5 when they had slipped, so by the final stage they were dialed in.

[@teverde]

In the 90's Pinarello did a lot of weird time trial bikes like the Espada for Indurain. Maybe you could try one of those models from the 90's that Ulrich used.

[@cb6866]

Thanks Ollie , Si and crew......

[@supakidgalaxy]

“Shonky mafs” possibly my favorite GCN moment

[@timoruimteaapje4384]

Lemond had used the bars before that final tt. He rode the prologue without them but did use them to crush the competition in the wet 73km individual TT (stage 5). And he wasn't the first rider to use them either: Andy Hampsten used them in that same ITT and started earlier.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

It would be a great GCN challenge to see how you got on with Graeme Obrees “chest on bars” old faithful home made bike that he broke the hour record on. See how far you guys could get in 1 hour.

[@Clint_the_Audio-Photo_Guy]

Lucky bastards got to ride a Lemond TT bike. But this must have been from 1990 or '91, because he wasn't on team Z in '89, and those are the Gen II Scott bars that came out in '90. (I had a pair until my bike got stolen back then) In '89 his bike frame was badged Bottecchia with team ADR. Incidentally, I have a picture signed by Greg to me of him on the bike he rode on that famous TT ride. Love the old C - Record groupo though, and the bike looks awesome. I think he had Mavic components on the '89 TT bike.

[@leeevans38]

I love watching GCN but lately I’ve starting experimenting with watching GTN…..I think I’m Tri curious 😂

[@mattburdock1734]

It's just a phase 😉 it looks great with all the toys and fancy outfits but I bet the chafing is worse 😂

[@thomasball1933]

GREAT EPISODE!!!! Great Music! Great Sound Design! Cheers mates!

[@craigmuranaka8016]

Great segment but pretty sure team 7-11 the entire team used them first. Greg also used the bars on the mountain time trial in the middle of the tour that year

[@willfromfreeport]

Let's get GTN to give this a go with a modern TT bike vs retro TT bike. They're already comfortable in that position.

[@DaveCM]

They are comfortable on TT bikes. Modern TT bikes and retro ones have different geometry.

[@willfromfreeport]

@@DaveCM very true haha.

[@billkallas1762]

I just noticed something interesting to me. It looked like the front wheel on LeMond's bike was built with a 26" Campy Omega XL rim. I noticed that I still have a wheel built from a 700c version of that rim. I could tell from even 10 feet away. PS. When I started riding (in the early 80's), 38cm bars were the standard until somebody came along and said that wider bars would help you breathe better.

[@andredegraaf1643]

Yes I heard that too regarding the bar width. My 1994 Master originally came with wide bars because that was the philosophy when I got fitted. I had the shop change them to 38s because they just felt too weird to me. I also noticed zero benefits as far as being able to breathe better.

[@randalbladel2817]

They said the wider bars would “open your chest”., which anatomically doesn’t make sense. Your shoulder with the scapula and collarbones essentially floats on top of and around the ribcage, without changing its ability to expand and contract to move air in and out.

[@JTrillo]

Glad you did another one of these, I mentioned in your other video I recently picked up a early 2000's Quintana Roo for $120 so I'm really interested in where the crossover point is. It's crazy to think that I could potentially go faster on a $120 20 year old TT bike than a top end modern road bike. I think with shifting at the bars and a more modern geometry should do the tick. Looking forwards to future iterations of these!

[@torus186]

As aerodynamic as possible given the UCI meddling that is.

[@kevinking7673]

I believe Lemond had used his aero bike in one of the earlier time trials in that Tour. I am not sure if that was the first time he was in that position. Love the video. Ollie you are a superstar.

[@benlisle7623]

Rewatching this while ordering retro parts for my Roberts lo pro frameset.

[@RichardMigneron]

In '89, I was on the Champs Élysées watching Lemond win the Tour ! And I did have a pair of those Scott bars on my old road bike.

[@Dirschau]

These handlebars are called "lemondki" in Poland :)

[@timlindert]

Take these old school bikes and put new school wheels and tires on them and test again!!!!!

[@bengtwahlstedt1021]

Greg Lemond used a Bottecchia with Mavic components in that 1989 time trail !!!

[@kevinbuja8105]

Ooooh man, Campy Delta brakes. What a colossal nightmare.

[@ralphc1405]

Don't believe the negative hype because they functioned good but you needed the 2nd Gen. brake levers to modulate them in a wheel change to open them up.

[@hedleykerr3564]

Curious the crank length on Lemond's TT bike? 177.5 maybe

[@BikeGuyFPV]

Was going to say the one that is shown in the episode has a Campagnolo Record groupset. The one Greg LeMond used had a full Mavic groupset on it which was a friction shift only, no indexing. I'm guessing this bike is from the following year. Other thing to note is if Greg did have Campagnolo on his bike, then it would have been the C-Record groupset which had the retro friction shift setup. Same has Laurent Fignon on his bike. Check this video and you'll see what I'm talking about. kzbin.info/www/bejne/apa0oaOZmKuqfdU

[@kylestewart4444]

Those Aeroads are so awesome

[@apm9507]

I don't follow road racing, but anything with the USA's 2nd Greatest Cyclist (Greg Lemond) is worth watching. I enjoyed his biography. The USA's Greatest Cyclist was Major Taylor.

[@treygray2817]

Arguable. GT winners generally receive more acclaim than sprinters.

[@gcn]

Two absolute legends of cycling!

[@brankododig1585]

Ollie looks like he could really use narrower bars yet on that Canyon with the way his wrists are turned inside out. Probably a lot of the performance difference is in the tires, though. Lovely vid, anyway.

[@turtleneck369]

just put modern carbon deep section wheels on it and the difference will most likely be so close if not out performening canyon aeoro bike

[@pittapittae]

Oooooh, I can't wait for the Lotus!!!! Brilliant series, guys, hat off!!

[@brianrichardson5310]

So wotcha got for tyres on the Lemond? Retro tyres? How do they compare for rolling resistance?

[@melaniamonicacraciun9900]

Long live cycling lovers world wide & never stop believe in guys, fans are always here to backup you ok? Pushing pedals is the best time of our lives indeed

[@OlegsKop]

Test Ribble vs Canyon would be very interesting.

[@josecarrillop]

Could be good to see the speed difference between Mountain Bikes and Gravel Bikes in a similar environment

[@chrisridesbicycles]

What a treat to start off the weekend! Watching LeMond win the TT in '89 was one of the pivotal moments in my cycling life. I remember how the chat about this was all over school the next day. Everybody wanted to stick LeMondies on their bikes.

[@gcn]

One of, if not, _the most_ iconic TdF stages of all time!

[@helolumpy]

Hey @GCN, I have a request for a video. How about you take an older (late 90’s-early 2000’s) frame and check the aero. Then start swapping out modern parts. What do deep section carbon wheels get you? Going to electronic shifting and hiding cables? Etc. Let’s see how much you can improve an older frame with some more modern components. Comparing a new aero frame to an older bike is obvious. But how much will upgrading components on an older frame get you? For those who can’t afford a new bike want to upgrade their beloved frame, how much can you improve it? Turn Ollie loose on this one!!

[@marty197666]

Greg used the TT bars in the first TT in 1989, Fignon actually had them on his bike before the final stage and took them off. The 7 Eleven team used them before Greg too! I remember Greg saying in 91/92 that testing had showed no difference between the tt bike and standard road bike with clip ons, so there are quite a few pictures of him tting on a normal bike!

[@EMC2Scotia]

True, from 91 until on he pretty much used a road bike frame for TT's.

[@ronm9357]

And US amateurs used them at the '89 Tour de Trump _before_ the 7-Eleven pros.

[@RichardMcLamore]

yup. hampsten had em on his bike . . .

[@elmycyclesipswich2473]

Funny you say that, ou are quite right. I also have an ADR Bottechia with the earlier Scott Bars, but it didn't quite fit the narrative. Maybe one for another film. Glad you enjoyed it though - Steve G 👍

[@huffytoss]

LeMond's lowest drag numbers were 5.6 lbs at 30 mph on a standard road bike with hands as far inward on the Scott Drop-In handlebars. Most pro cyclists at the time with around 7 lbs of drag. He had less drag than most small cyclists tested in the wind tunnel.

[@peterleffler2062]

I get the limitations of the format but would like to see say, the best of and average of 5 runs on 5 days to give a chance to get used to the low pro position. I'm guess the results would be the TT bike still slower but by a narrower margin.

[@Gixer750pilot]

I wonder how many more watts you could produce or easier to produce, if you tipped Lemonds saddle down a few degrees? Being flat is sub optimal for the pelvis when the front is that low

[@johns3106]

C’mon guys…let’s not attribute Lemond’s win solely to aero bars…he was also one of the ‘80’s best time trialists! (when in form…and he definitely was in form for the ‘89 Tour!!!)

[@steveherring8494]

hi ollie, i have a tt bike mvery similar to lamont's bike. it was custom built for me and ive ridden it twenty miles a couple of times. at the end i'm in so much pain i can barely walk. it a beautiful bike, it has a pink floyd dark side of the moon paint job on it. its got a campagnello record group set. ive got the bill horn bars but not on it. it has mavic open pro cd wheels. it's pretty fast. if you ever come to arizona you have to see it. it was custom made by one of your country men. the last time i road it i almost couldn't get off it.

[@thomasmarktooms]

The poosition might've been extreme, but did look so cool. Anyhow, if you're going to try the Lotus, why not Obree's 'old faithful', that might test suppleness

[@polbiesmans3537]

It was actually the Belgian sports director, José de Cauwer who introduced him to it, and mate it possible for LeMond to ride with them in the final stage!

[@bobfoster687]

Actually “invented” by American Boone Lennon,

[@seanlee7670]

Wondering both of them start off on what gear on the old bike? Either the bike or them. The start off could cost them some time on the old bike.

[@gunteris1144]

I noticed that Lemond's bike was riden with red botle by both riders. But new aero bike was riden without any botle at all. I think this experiment should be redone just because of that.. Nice video anyway, enjoyed watching it.

[@swissride4k]

The Entire content is very nice, but the scene at 11:10 is delightful. I'm a permanent viewer of your channel. Thanks again for your Work for Us!

[@nerigarcia7116]

I'd like to see a top of the line race bike from the 80s/90s compared to a modern entry level bike of the same weight. Is an entry level bike bought today as good as a pro race bike from the past?

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

Lotus, Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious. I "Hope" it doesn't need a tune-up half way through, dman SU carbs.

[@stevecooper7038]

The last stage of the '89 Tour de France wasn't the first time LeMond used his tri-bars in the '89 Tour. He used the them on stage 5 & 15, along with Hampsten & Yates.

[@davehause8571]

@14:10 actually, LeMond first used the aerobars to win 1989's TdF Stage 5 ITT.

[@a1white]

Is that those crazy Campagnolo delta brakes? 😬

[@GCNuser123]

it is! beauties!

[@a1white]

@@GCNuser123 they do look amazing, but I’ve heard they don’t stop you that well. But then why would you want to stop, when you’re riding a bike like that?!

[@bobhopemaryjane2]

I'm surprised this was a question!

[@Dhungerf60]

I love the sound of that disc wheel

[@richcrompton6891]

Awesome video! Time to unleash the Lotus!!

[@86mrnelson]

But you left the water bottle on the lemond bike vs not on the Canyon?? What's that subtract for the difference?

[@jonnythelegs2597]

Having modern tyres on the old bike would probably tip the scales in its favour.

[@HkFinn83]

There’s no way gcn are going to admit all this modern ‘aero’ stuff is mostly marketing lol

[@jonnythelegs2597]

@@HkFinn83 yee there's tons of marketing bullshit but the bikes of today are definitely faster.

[@kpsig]

@@HkFinn83 It is not. Even in amateur racing above 60km with average speeds 35 km/h and above, they make a difference when you are out of draft.

[@treygray2817]

@@HkFinn83 Nah. It makes a small difference if you're an elite rider.

[@jellyfishsalad5926]

Looks like a fair bit of drafting behind the GCN Moto going on there!

[@eloelo8625]

No difference beteween the bikes. 5 watts is what caused time gap.z

[@broersporco]

that cameraman influences all those times on such a measurement, the slipstream at those speeds is immense.

[@karstenmeinders4844]

That is a good remark. There is a lot of discussion in triathlon that the top athletes get these slip stream aero benefits from the lead motorcycle and media motorcycles.

[@gefloigle]

💡Reminder: Ollie dropped Contador. 💪🏼😎

[@gcn]

Si has also dropped Ollie, which can only mean Si will win the Tour de France next year!

[@KDS14601]

Check you facts guys. He used the bars in two of the TT’s prior to the final stage.

[@Thetoad738]

Fignon was suffering from a saddle sore which prevented him from fully being rested for the final time trial, also, not wearing an aero helmet and his blonde ponytail flapping in the wind didn't help. Saddle sore, handlebars, no helmet, and flapping hair helped Fignon lose the Tour. Let us not forget, even with all this, Fignon finished 3rd only behind Thierry Marie (who didn't have Tri-bars) and Lemond. Also, Lemond spending the Tour following wheels didn't help Fignon on the final day either.

[@another3997]

By far the biggest cause of drag on a bike is the rider themselves. Having 'aero' frames, wheels and such isn't going to make a huge difference in itself. Rider position, gearing, frame and wheel stiffness plus tyre compound have far more effect. The biggest problems with this test are that neither rider is used to riding in that position, and the bike itself was built specifically to suit LeMond. Much like when going from an upright road bike to a recumbent, until your body gets used to the very different riding position and muscle use, you will go slower, despite the improved aerodynamics.

[@nluisa]

Absolutely. Even though I think it wasn't the aim, this video demonstrates something quite important: it's not about the bike, but how the bike fits. If both presenters were riding a bike too big and were unable to put the power down or breathe properly (and notice how Ollie is the shortest and had the larger gap too), then it becomes very difficult to match a well fitted bike, regardless of specs. I bet Si and Ollie in a good fitting bike from that age would be 'faster' than anything that Conor rides... I notice club chats from people with perfectly decent bikes are so much about about how another steed is "better" and how the current one is slowing them down. In reality, the most aero frame will provide very little if it needs 6cm of spacers under the handlebars and cannot be ridden comfortably... Somehow I rarely hear anything about having another bike because it will fit them better... Or better fitting clothing or better training..

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

That position is known as the flat back in modern dance and gets used extensively by choreographers like Alvin Ailey. I had an actor friend who took classes with Ailey and ended up throwing her back out so badly she could not walk upright. She was not even 30 yet and walked bent completely in half for a few weeks. That's how brutal that position is on the body and even with the convenience of a saddle, I don't think it would get better. You need a strong core and strong back. (They should be glad they don't have breasts.)

[@picasticks]

I'd agree except that Si put out the identical power output and the LeMond bike, with its boxy front wheel and other aerodynamic problems like round tubes, was slower than the Aeroad. And at a higher power output (what LeMond would have put out) and LeMond's higher speed, the aerodynamics would matter even more. If frames and wheels didn't matter then cyclists would still be riding on these old bangers.

[@junaid42465]

Exactly. Glad Ollie did mention it in 17:31

[@marcusteves1916]

You must try adding some modern parts on classic time trial

[@kevinowagah7069]

Incredible. 30 yrs apart and only 1 minute at most difference. The distance was short though. A longer distance would make the difference.

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

Stage 5 1989 TDF was the first time he used aero bars.

[@JG-yp6rt]

Great video! But I think you guys handicapped the TT bike with the water bottle 😂

[@AleksiJoensuu]

So: Coke can shims on aero bars - Hack slash Bodge? :D (I once made a motorcycle exhaust gasket from a beer can because it was easter, I wanted to ride, and all the shops were closed. Definately a bodge though, lasted about a month if I recall correctly.)

[@justinbrown6558]

Definitely a hack. Aluminium shim is a perfect material for such a task. I ran a winter bike (with a wrong diameter size seat pin -which came with the bike- so I made my own shim in the same way. It never failed.

[@pnyholm]

I would like to see your roadbike vs a tri-bike

[@dukeofspeed2072]

Does anybody remember MOUNTAINBIKES with aero bars and plastic disc wheels?

[@anthonyharris483]

John Tomac

[@maksoff]

This "Coca-Cola" bottle looks really dope!

[@brentlewis4570]

Please tell me you didn't ride 40 year old tires on the Lemond bike! Surely you would switch those out to the same tire so we could just measure the frames as the variable.

[@alandowney5851]

'89 was the greatest tour. Thing is, (and taking nothing away from Greg, a childhood hero of mine) I don't think Lemond was as strong as Fignon in that race. He was in better shape in '86 and '90 - and in '85 when he gave way to Hinault under team orders (he should have won that tour). On Bastille Day PDM attacked the peleton in the feed zone during a cross wind. Fignon lost the plot and went on a break with Mottet for about 50 kms. I remember watching it live - the yellow jersey attacking off the front on a flat stage! They were caught and Fignon obviously expended a lot of energy. Two days later he rode poorly in a mountain TT, losing 47 seconds to Lemond. It think he lost the tour there and not on the Champs Elsyee. Fignon was third on that final stage and only bested by Lemond and Thierry Marie, a specialist TT'er. It wasn't just TT bars either. Fignon wore no aero helmet and had a saddle sore. Imagine sitting in that position with an ulcer... If he had ridden to form in the mountain TT he could have won the tour. What a warrior. RIP Laurent.

[@ralphc1405]

true. Greg was sitting on Fignon's wheel on some of the mountain stages I think. BUT---Greg was on a weak team with no strong riders. Fignon had lots of help from his domestiques. I always wondered if Super U mechanics switched out those bulbous Delta calipers on his TT bike for the Cobalto SR brakes. A weight savings?

[@alandowney5851]

@@ralphc1405 I agree that the ADR lads went missing as soon as the road went uphill. The Deltas looked great but weren't great at stopping the bike...

[@bradjohnson169]

Problem is... they both rode the canyon 1st. Maybe if they reversed at least one rider to start on the TT bike?

[@lunam7249]

yep.....the TT is faster....i own 2

[@analoguegeek]

The dude came back from getting blasted with a shotgun. Switching to the TT bars was absolutely nothing. Also don’t forget his aero helmet.. Fignot just had his balding head and drop bars - completely unfair competition

[@gg4760-k5n]

Aero with square profile tubes ? That's some Hambini reaming waiting to happen lol.

[@simonparsons]

Great vid, although a couple corrections. Vid says Boone Lennon talked Greg into using them on the final stage, but he used them in the stage 5 tt and the uphill tt and the final tt, just not in the prologue. Also it was 89, not 91 and he was on a Bottechia in 89 then on the wonderful tri-color Lemond bike in 90. Slight difference in the Aero bars in 89 than the ones shown in this vid. Sorry, huge nerd here and I have a beautiful 1990 lemond proudly hanging on my wall!

[@stephenchu1115]

You guys failed to mention Lemond's 89 TT bike is 26 lbs (12 kg). I saw Greg and Phil Liggett at in San Francisco at the Tour of California. Greg was doing an 89 Tour recap with Phil. Greg had this bike on display in the lobby and Greg descibed the bike in detail. He got it painted "Z" colors because he changed teams in 1990, but assured the audience that it was the exact same bike as he rode in the 89 Tour final TT. The modern bike is likely 17 lb (7.7 kg). So, Greg's 89 TT bike is almost double the weight compared to the modern bike. These are sgnificant pieces of information (weight and color of the bike - ie it is different than the 89 final TT) that are missing in this video.

[@stephenchu1115]

Greg also described that his aero Giro helmet tail had to be cut off to satisfy the "Tour regulators". And he described it as a parachute when he had his head down. It was ok when he looked up. But more than half the TT, his head was down. Greg said that is the one thing he would change - the Giro "aero" helmet.

[@NoreenHoltzen]

The weight surprisingly doesn’t do much at fairly constant speed of the TT. The main difference in the bikes is is the carbon fiber power transfer far superior.

[@stephenchu1115]

@@NoreenHoltzen OK. If you were had to ride the same route (with a standing start and at least 5 corners to slow down and accelerate out of, also it's not totally flat) and were offered $1 M to break 12 minutes, and you had a choice of 2 bikes - one at 17 lbs and the other at 26 lbs, you would choose the 17 lb bike 100% of the time. Weight does matter in the real world.

[@kon1402]

Is it really 12kg? I can't find any info on its weight online.

[@stephenchu1115]

Greg's 89 TT bike has a 55 tooth chain ring. He rode 11 and 12 rear block (the term for cassette back in the day). The block looks like it is a straight block, so the biggest rear cog is probably an 18. So you guys were riding 55 × 16 ( or 17). This is too big as we are now all used to spinning with the innovation of compact cranks. This likely made the significant difference in time. Put modern gearing on Greg's 89 TT bike, this bike would be faster than the modern bike. Heck you guys lost 10 to 15 second the first 100 m as you were at 30 RPM trying to get Greg's bike up to speed.

[@treygray2817]

Very good point!

[@alleborgo5481]

Greg Lemond's ALL LIFE LONG!!!! Simply amazing. Stunning. Beautiful!!! Vintage rulez!!!

[@chrissinclair8705]

I think your guys idea of retro is a little different than mine. I think of a 70lbs Banana seat bike with a 3 speed shifter in the frame made up to look like a car shifter and a generator light to add extra friction. Try learning on that bitch in the 70's as a kid.