How Much Faster Can I Make My Old Bike? | 2013 Vs 2023 Revisited

[@gcn]

What other upgrades would you make to Si’s 2013 Specialized? Let us know in the comments below! 👇

[@minchia04]

Put on narrow aero handlebars and wireless groupset to further optimise the front end. And also a ceramic speed rear derailleur cover 😂

[@i4npanman]

Will it give an ultimate boost in speed, if it was using TT disc wheelset?

[@Cyclingchoice]

Aero.bar, same width tyres, same psi, inwardly position shifter, upgrade saddle and seat post, same groupset or equivalent

[@Numeriwar]

Put an aero drop bar please.

[@colecoleman1499]

Specialized turbo cotton tires for the next video and an aero helmet and skin suit. Aero road would be defeated

[@amishrider]

I don't care about the results. Your 2013 Specialized looks awesome with those deep wheels, and you clearly enjoyed tanking it for 8k. Your summary was spot on, enjoy the riding with your mates!

[@gcn]

It did look cool... maybe that's more important after all 😂

[@Big_Island_Boi]

Yeah, some dude shows up at our weekly group ride through Houston on a garishly painted, 80's vintage, steel Tommasini with drop-tube shifters--and newer deep section carbon wheels on it. That bike looks cool as fuck... and he's pretty fast on it.

[@dgillies5420]

On our monthly vintage ride the guy who's the fastest and passes $30,000 worth of bikes climbing the Torrey Pines grade, is riding a 5-speed 1955 Hetchin vibrant-stays curve-tube bike. Really.

[@nguyenho9591]

“Wasn’t a fair test” *Also proceeds to do an “all out” effort test (-10 watts on non-sponsored bike, slower tyres, while new bike has latex tubes and GP5Ks or something equivalent), not telling anyone the watts then say it’s slower than sponsored bike* GCN really needs to stop doing these “sciency” test. I don’t know how people can not getting second-hand embarrassment watching these tests😂

[@simonrichardson5259]

I don’t get it. If you think we have no integrity then don’t bloody watch the video FFS. And don’t tell me you think I’m lying. Seriously pisses me off.

[@nguyenho9591]

@@simonrichardson5259 there are 8 billion people, some tolerates bullshit, some don’t, I definitely don’t. So if you hate these comments, dOn’T rEaD ThEm. Now if you are pissed off because you couldn’t provide hard evidence from your tests, maybe stick to bike painting tutorials or riding up Strade finishing climb or something, those are the enjoyable ones. EVERYONE knows you are shilling, that’s why your views are dropping because you are unqualified and unreliable. Hell, Cycling Tips quotes the Asian new bike brand, Devel, 15k USD to deliberately shill Devel bikes on their platform, God knows how much yall getting paid by Canyon and Orbea. Had enough? Stick to bike paint videos or some 500k challenge.

[@andrewwoffinden8671]

@@simonrichardson5259 So we aren't allowed to question your methodology? That is part of the scientific method that you are obviously not aware of..

[@xAudiolith]

@@simonrichardson5259 sorry we're getting in the way of your Canyon paycheck. You're a former pro cyclist. You know full well it's a bullsh*t test by not disclosing power numbers and talking about doing a "maximal effort" test.

[@nicklewiscycling]

The fact you didn't pick a power and ride to it completely moots this video. Going 'all out' is so subjective, just do 3 tests, 200w, 300w and 350w. Compare the differences. Also ensure tyres are exactly the same across both bikes as they are responsible for most of the speed.

[@Cyclingchoice]

No aero handle bar on the old bike, probably different width tyres running different psi, gcn will not do a controlled experiment, they know the old frame will close the gap! Not good for their sponsors.

[@xAudiolith]

now now the sponsors really wouldn't like that now would they

[@nguyenho9591]

They don’t wanna reveal that old bikes are just as fast with the right components

[@Al.2]

The fact that he didn't even show the power numbers is quite frankly ridiculous.

[@budbud2509]

@@nguyenho9591 Alsp Si is a fast cyclist and Aero is more important the faster u go. If I was to do a similar test , there may be a difference but when u are lucky to do a 20 mph average the gains would be more marginal

[@GdF420]

10-year old bike ? That's a brand new bike for me !

[@MartianTom]

Yep! Glad I'm not the only one!

[@bicyclist2]

Same here.

[@MartianTom]

@@bicyclist2 My 20-year-old Specialized Sequoia (alloy frame) is still going strong after tens of thousands of miles.

[@nickvandam1214]

I bought by bike new 10 years ago and it is still going strong.

[@VelosaJr]

Still a ten year bike..

[@JonathanHair]

Did you ride at the same power? The results don't mean anything without this.

[@88pooney]

Ridden on different days and no power numbers shared! Content has gone severely downhill in recent years! c.80% wind resistance is from the rider but that won’t make the sponsors happy…..

[@SCWgreg]

What a great summary of the Industry. “Pimping”the older one, and “handicapping” the newer one. Thanks!

[@rabidsminions2079]

In 1995 I bought a pair of wheels with Zipp 40mm deep rims. Aero is not a new thing, in the 90s there were aero seat post, aero spokes, aero water bottles and campagnolo had integrated shifter brake and gear cables in the handlebar tape where as shimano were exposed. There was also aero saddle bag that was slimline and was about the width of the frame.

[@jamesmorgans9835]

Great video. Loved the camera work and the editing. It blows my mind how much we’ve discovered in the last 10 years. Can’t wait to see what happens in the next decade. And I’m glad that it was mentioned at the end of video that all that matters is “just ride. Ride fast, ride slow, ride with mates or not. Just ride”

[@dgillies5420]

Really brilliant camera work, I loved the double-exposure of Si talking to himself in duplicate ...

[@nomad61u2]

My favorite part of this video, which made it one of my recent favorite GCN videos was the recognition of - “what are we really testing here? Kind of who cares? This is fun!” Just that ethos could carry a substantial series on this channel for quite a while.

[@gcn]

Hahahah we love a test... what can we say 😂

[@budbud2509]

@@gcn Lets face it Si is a fast cyclist , if for instance I were to be the tester the results would be much more narrow cos aero has much less effect at my speeds. When I built a bike for the Etape my focus was on weight cos I knew my speed uphill would not have any gains with an aero bike. And going down mountains was quick enough thanks

[@jacquelinesim9578]

I agree - this type of riding is so out of my league both cost and fitness wise, but I’ll watch any of it as I’ve an old bike and new bike and an electric and it all fascinated me - who cares? Just watch and then get out there and ride what you’ve got 😅

[@MrPhoto17]

This is almost my exact setup! 2013 Roubaix with Vision Metron 55’s! All bought secondhand and is still way more bike than my skills and fitness could ever max out!

[@AR-lz2br]

You can't compare two bikes regarding aerodynamics and speed if there is no power data (watts) as a reference, plus we all know Canyon is a major sponsor of GCN, so I would not take this test seriously.

[@simonrichardson5259]

No, you’re right, a 10 year old non-aero bike is just as fast as a modern aero one, silly us.

[@AR-lz2br]

@@simonrichardson5259 I never said that dude. GCN always emphasizes bike company claims on watt savings regarding new models. Well, let us know the real life test results using watts as reference in your so called "test".

[@totalcycling]

I made this comment too about being sponsored by Canyon. The test is absolutely meaningless without power data. Tyres and tubes and aero bars also make a big difference. Even removing the thick padded handlebar tape from the old bike would make it faster. Were the same quality of tyres used on each run? Tyre pressure? I am sure an aero frame will be slightly faster than a non aero one but how can anyone make a conclusion based on this? It would also be more valid if someone else rather than Simon rode the bikes. He will be more comfortable on the new bike compared with one he used 10 year ago.

[@ironore8677]

Awesome video! Just wished you had showed power output for each run. I think everyone is cheering for the old bike lol

[@xAudiolith]

You know 100% why they didn’t do that. The new bike would have been embarrassingly close to the old one. Ask any pro in private in the off season and they tell you what they think of these shitty disc brake bikes. Good god they’re putting disc brakes on TT bikes now 😂😂

[@fabioqueiros9322]

@@StopTheRot bulshit… it’s one thing to say it would be almost as fast as a new bike (probably true), but a 10 year old bike is not AS fast as a 2023 bike

[@nguyenho9591]

@@fabioqueiros9322 lmao, consumer stupidity and GCN D’riding at the highest level.

[@loc9588]

@@fabioqueiros9322 lmao it literally is. Given same wheels, tires and riding position it’s probably a difference of 10 watts or less

[@xAudiolith]

@@fabioqueiros9322they got you drinking the kool aid I see 😂

[@kylewish3949]

There's never a 30 second difference with matching power numbers, closer to 3 seconds

[@smulismuli7976]

agree

[@ollyole4560]

"Different day, different course, different weather" - He made it quite obvious that they have no intention of doing a fair comparison, shame.

[@bluemystic7501]

Of course there is. A lot has changed in 10 years.

[@mattlee341]

Great video! Ordinary cycling fans like myself who cannot afford to change bikes every season would appreciate more videos like this one on how to upgrade your 5-to10-year-old bikes faster and by how much. Is it worth the investment, etc.

[@kevinc9528]

I think the choices are Body position Zwifting Wheels Tires Handlebar Maybe lubricant on chain Helmet Kit Pulley wheel ... Waxing your legs

[@gcn]

You can certainly get some great speed on budget bikes, Just look at the time we went racing on budget bikes 👉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5ndYnqsgNVljsk

[@abtcup]

I’m still riding my 10 year old Cervelo S2. I have two sets of wheels. One set are Zipp 404 tubulars and the other is a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbons using tubes. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary in road bikes that is convincing me to go out and drop $5 to 7k on a new bike. Surely not for 30 seconds.

[@kevinc9528]

@@abtcup I have a 12 year old Cervelo R3 which I recently upgraded to the new Madone. I would have thought tire clearance would be one of the reasons to upgrade alongside the obvious aero, disc, etc. For me my bike was getting beat up through the number of crashes and mishaps that occurred through just riding the bike. Feels good to refresh it.

[@Semeyaza]

Well, those wheels are about 2K euros for a set, so... worth the investment is a relative term. ;)

[@colecoleman1499]

This is the video we wanted to see. Aero shapes would amount to something after all. I did a recent time trial of 10:30 with super fast race tires on 2005 year , 11 kg bike with 36 spokes stock rear wheel ( cup and cone) and DT Swiss front wheel 20 spokes.

[@daniboi4067]

Very nice 👌

[@gcn]

Nice to see you also getting involved in the retro vs modern, should we hand this bike over to Ollie and get some TT action going? 👀

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

Rim brakes for the win in 2023.

[@AllanPhillips]

Except they lost.

[@paucruz276]

???

[@AverageReviewsYT]

Until they get wet… then it’s all over for peak performance. I get tired of cleaning my brakes after I go through a puddle or something.. but I’d take that over constant tweaking my rotors because god forbid you transport them or bump them slightly.. yeah that got old quick. Great performance… but got sick of rub.

[@jearwood85]

I just love the locking up of the disc breaks. Panicked breaded reacently and nearly went over the handlebars. I just love that kind of power on the breaks

[@itshighertobeabayer6598]

Refusing to watch that video because GCN isn't interested in a REAL comparison. Not showing the wattage needed to ride both bikes, etpc. pp. The ultimate "old vs. new" comparison would be to roll down a longer slope without a single pedal stroke. THAT way you could really compare effects of "aero" and tyres!

[@kuri8015]

It just goes to show you, unless you are racing keep riding your old bike. I'm almost 60 and on my third bike since my late teens I won't buy another one now.

[@gcn]

That's good to hear! If it ain't broke!

[@jefferycampbell2243]

You may want to reconsider that. I'm 65 and recently replaced my beloved 1995 Vitus with a disc brake Canyon Endurace. The more upright position and 32mm 50 psi tires made a HUGE difference in my riding comfort. Riding more than a few hours on the Vitus had become shear torture, but the Endurace has made centuries and multi-day adventure rides pleasurable again.

[@YippeeSkippie426]

I'm 60 and ride a fixed gear. I don't belong here.

[@kuri8015]

@@jefferycampbell2243 You could be right. I'll never say never, but at the moment I'm riding fine.

[@markricketts6957]

I have a steel touring bike from the early 90s and just bought a really nice road bike from 2011. Over my usual hour and a half ride there is no more than a minute difference in time, but the newer bike is massively more fun, and that is all that matters.

[@gcn]

Having fun is the most important thing!

[@ceylon-cycling-trails.]

I have done that same thing. Awesome. Tarmac SL3 with Cosmic. 😊

[@KuriReevel]

Why not powerdata anymore? Pedal powermeter not available anywhere anymore? This was not a test, but advertizing of Canion.

[@parkerliang]

I added 49mm Front and 59mm depth hoops to my Cannodale CAAD 9, it is now a speedy boy. Plus the deep section wheels makes it look fast.

[@NemanjaPantelic]

Upgrading to 50mm carbon wheels from the stock Giants on my 2016 commuter Alu Defy Disc changed the feel and the sound of the bike for the better. I also ride it with mudguards in combo with aero wheels which rises eyebrows from time to time, but I don't care really. I love it

[@MD-cq6lx]

who cares about the eyebrows. Atleast your pants are dry😂😂😂

[@loc9588]

Why do you have carbon wheels on a commuter bike 😂

[@Harley_Gauge]

Nice! I have a flat bar hybrid but now starting to look at new wheelset. Too right! Who cares what people think. Bring on the Tron wheels

[@MD-cq6lx]

@@loc9588 why not. Am less likely to arrive completely sweaty at work with a lighter bike😂😂

[@NemanjaPantelic]

@@loc9588 Because I can! 🤣

[@justsomedude7556]

I put a new set of wheels on my old 2015 Emonda and picked 2 to 3 mph. I love this bike...

[@mpicanza4491]

Great video. Very impressed we didn’t have another rim vs disc debate! Riding for smiles is all I care about (and what my 54yr body can achieve!) but we all like to go fast, that sensation is always highly addictive…

[@gcn]

Absolutely. Doesn't matter what bike you have, you can still have a great time!

[@rangersmith4652]

At nearly 63, I have made a conscious decision to trade the excitement of that bit of extra speed for comfort and style. I'm as fast as many of my mostly much younger club mates, fast enough to not get dropped on most rides. And if I do get dropped, I look great and feel great as I chug along. Forty years ago I quite enjoyed bombing a descent at over 50mph, but now I find it mildly terrifying. I do select certain components that are probably making my bikes "faster," but that's in the interest of saving energy, not adding speed.

[@MrSmoothasf]

The older bike looks incredible now

[@madyogi6164]

The only "no no"(?) for these bikes were a bit too chonky frames. I got one myself (Corratec, 2010 design on their 10th anniversary). Small vendor from Germany. All I know, it was hated back then, in UK. :D For me - cool paintwork! I got rid pretty much everything attached to it in first 3-4 years (except shifters and brakes). And even now, though I replace parts occasionally, I do see the sign of the time... Specially chasing "new guys".

[@gcn]

Something nice about that old style frame with those deep modern wheels! 👌

[@randellgribben9772]

@@gcn i run a 2014 pinarello dogma 65.1 think2 full campy... i think it looks better than all those sterile looking aero bikes.... nd a lot of my freinds that run the best and the newest.. think the same thing

[@abedfo88]

I like the sentiment behind the video but the fact you are omitting power data/not riding to a set power makes it completely moot. It doesn't take much of a cynic to understand why you would want to do that.

[@simonrichardson5259]

I think you are rather too cynical Andrew. And actually who’s to say if I rode with a power meter I’d do it accurately and then not lie about it afterwards?

[@abedfo88]

@Simon Richardson Thanks for responding Simon. Well I would trust your integrity if that were the case. I think 10yrs of seeing you on the screen leads me to think you wouldn't do that.

[@nguyenho9591]

@@simonrichardson5259 easy, take a bloody photo of the Garmin, Wahoo or at least some Strava data that has Lap Time, Lap average speed and Lap average power. The fact that ya’ll hold the largest exposure on cycling social media and still bold enough to say this speaks volume on how unreliable your sponsored tests are. And if you are confident enough that your data is reliable, you wouldn’t personally go and reply to every single negative comments under this video.

[@hansschmidt3144]

when talking about early gcn days... somehow i miss matt as a presenter. the combination matt, dan, si was so great :)

[@colinb8327]

It would be interesting to see modern seat post, stem, aero handlebars on the old bike, and the same group set and wheels on the old bike and the new. Ride both at the same power and we can have a definitive answer over the difference. My suspicion is the weight saving on the old bike, will counteract some of the aero gains on the new, in real world testing.

[@simonrichardson5259]

Haha, hold up, what exactly are you trying to compare them?! You’ve lost me.

[@colinb8327]

@@simonrichardson5259 compare frame for frame. New groupsets will be more efficient, so to simply change the wheels doesn’t show the full potential of the old v new. Next consideration would be what the handlebars and stem are made from, fair enough keeping the width the same, but are they similar weights? Carbon fibre technology has moved on over the last ten years let alone twenty, which is why Zipp wheels are now both lighter and cheaper than just a few years ago, due to changes in laying up technique’s. Let’s have a real comparison of the frames themselves, same power over the same course, see how the frames have progressed without the variables between the groupsets , etc.

[@simonrichardson5259]

@@colinb8327 I feel like if you change everything except the frame you’re no longer comparing old Vs new though, don’t you think?

[@Millicente]

It’s sad how upset people can be about GCN while watching their videos consistently and accusing them of trying to sell you bikes when Si literally closes the video saying a bike is fun regardless how fast you’re going. But hey, even hate views are views which means more funding for these videos which I enjoy so win-win in some twisted way I guess.

[@simonrichardson5259]

Thanks, I appreciate that a lot. ❤

[@spockicus7455]

Canyon ad. Are U pretending to be testing an Sworks Si? Tsk tsk...

[@switt5923]

Damn that Campy groupset looks so much better than the other one.

[@randellgribben9772]

campy or that era..work of art... shimano/sram.. just industral looking..no passion

[@bicyclist2]

Agreed!

[@10ktube]

You guys missed this one. All you needed to do was take the old bike, put power meter on it, ride the course, switch wheels, ride course again, show the numbers. Not sure who's bright idea this one was but it's a miss, no data other than km/h. Don't even know the distance. Come on now, the disc brake rotor stopping test was even more scientific than this. Does Canyon need to really be advertised NON STOP? We get it, they sponsor the riders, they have adjustable handlebars, yay.

[@sepg5084]

Why would they not advertise Canyon? They are sponsored by Canyon, they are supposed to advertise Canyon. Any vid that they show that involves anything Canyon is an ad.

[@drivemenuts3011]

What ever upgrades you do next time, make sure both setup's have the same tyres and are ridden on the same day (i.e. same weather). Otherwise, it is a pointless experiment.

[@frankrizzo367]

Agreed. Variable vs control

[@nickvandam1214]

I like the idea of optimized bicycles with period tech. That would be a fun series, having the best of ea decade compared to entry level bikes of today.

[@PK-qq1lz]

I like Si, the humor he has. These vids to continue and asking the crowd are really fun. Thank you.

[@daz4627]

Si has been watching too much May, Hammond and Clarkson... all good!! :-)

[@erlendsteren9466]

Nice video . Aerodynamics did a lot more difference than I could guess, but I think the difference is much less for slow riders like me, because aerodynamics does less difference going at my speeds (usually belov 30km/h) compared to the strong riders that goes faster than 40 km/H. If I trade in my 2013 roadbike for a new aerobike with carbon aerowheels I would be suprised if I gained 1 km/speed giving a hard(for me) effort at 30 KM/H

[@MartianTom]

I can beat you there! My Specialized dates back to 2003! Many times over the years, I've thought about getting a new bike. But I'm too attached to it now - and the closest Specialized to its spec is such an horrendous price now. Okay, it won't win any races - but then neither will I! It's had a few upgrades and change-outs in that time. A bit like Trigger's broom, in fact! The frame is about the only original part. And I still stick doggedly to the triple chainset and rim brakes! I suppose, in all, it's a good advert for Specialized bikes!

[@bubblesezblonde]

Yes I prefery upgrading my older bikes as opposed to buting the newest fad. That is why I love these vids Siborg.

[@gcn]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@gokaygs]

Wow GCN content is getting slightly interesting again like many years ago! It could have been proper interesting if it there was transparency around the data such as the course parameters and watts output.

[@tobiasmadero2727]

Cool analysis and conclusion Si. From me i can say that i've got a CADD4 r4000 road bike and i quite like to transform it into an efficient bike. That gives an old special road bike a more modern look by changing the set of wheels and other components. And it helps a lot in terms of power and confort. Besides that i cant afford a CANYON and i cant beat that time i feel quite powerfull on my cannondale, and i love it.

[@gcn]

Nothing wrong with keeping it old school! Those old caad frames have a real following. Neo-retro builds can be a great option 🙌

[@bobwilliamson5574]

I've fitted Aero carbon wheels on my Brompton and it's made a huge difference, now I look like a real twat.

[@autoxjunkie]

Referring to the 2010s having wider bars as "old school" is interesting. I have a '87 Cannondale R500 hanging in the garage with bar width that's likely in line with what's currently "fashionable", where my every day '11 Trek Madone has the 44-ish mm wide bars. So going wayyy back, they were narrow. Then wide...now back to narrow.

[@jonford6119]

Too much confounding to make a truly accurate comparison, should have had the same wheels on both bikes. I also disagee about the bar width response. The old bike has the bars it has, the new one the same, so you should have tested them both as they came. Still, good to see the new bike is still significantly faster, a demonstration of progress. Some of the comments from old roadie bores about progress are absolutely laughable.

[@darrengarvie8832]

I'm very surprised how fast new bikes are I have a 9 year old bike but I don't race 😁 but it could help me cycling for longer 🤔 for the same power

[@xAudiolith]

sure with the reduced weight of your wallet you'd also save a couple hundred grams. check the weight on these new bikes and what kind of money they ask for. and think if you really wanna start faffing around with disc brakes as a casual cyclist. not worth it imo. also remember there's no way gcn would let the old bike be faster. sponsors wouldn't like that ;)

[@darrengarvie8832]

@@xAudiolith true new bike are not real worth the money but wheels could be an option 😁

[@mamilmick]

The problem with this test is the course better suited the canyon, The tarmac is a climbing bike, The wheels are lighter and designed for going up hill. Maybe the test should have been up alpe’d duez, The lighter weight of the tarmac would outweigh any Areo benefits of the canyon Going up hill.

[@werdsmyth]

Might want to do the beep start just after that MASSIVE pot hole! Good old Gloucestershire roads...

[@MrKlop6]

it's amazing that this superbike just lay there and waited for its day. ex professionals just store them as furniture. as a beginner, I would like to buy at least some kind of bike, even if it is old and rusty. beautiful video I love GCN

[@karelvandervelden8819]

Now is the time to buy quality secondhand rimbrake bikes. (its like buying secondhand CD´s)

[@nealpeacocke3424]

Glad to see that Si has a new sunglasses sponsor for this years road season. Would have seemed silly hearing all about those handlebar widths knowing his old shades were the widest of them all.

[@deuce9624]

The bike looks so much better

[@dalis994]

Wheels can make a huge diference! If you have a decent bicycle with a budget set of wheels, get better wheels. It's not actually about speed only, It's also about feeling safer when cornering.

[@nemure]

This is why I won't buy ever carbon wheels, they're opposite of safe How many times I saw people end in the hospital cause their carbon wheels broke cornering just under the normal everyday tension. No crash, no summer heat, no rocks, no anything but being plastic. Cheep wheels may be a tiny bit slower but are indeed way more safer. Alloy wheels forever

[@marketingsam]

I'm curious how many times you were casually driving by a hospital and saw a queue of injured cyclists gripping onto collapsed carbon wheels?

[@dalis994]

@@marketingsam Exactly my thought. Catastrophic failures can happen but I don't believe that there are stats that would confirm that modern carbon wheels are unsafe when cornering. Pros use it at Paris-Roubaix after all - approx 50 km of tough cobblestone roads.

[@nemure]

@@marketingsam sadly more than one. You can search in KZbin videos of carbon wheels snapping

[@nemure]

@@dalis994 pros use them what, a month? They don't use them for years. Carbon it's terrible regarding to fatigue. Bit by bit is adding damage to the structure until one day, they snap Also don't forget some pros have World records using alloy frames and alloy wheels, carbon is just marketing

[@notreal-pl7mz]

So how much faster do the fancy wheels make the 'old' bike? That is the key simple question it would of been useful to answer:-)

[@bighammer3464]

Awesome comparison except for the out of regulation beeps

[@marcuspartridge11]

Ok, the 2 Si's side by side was really cool! 😎

[@felipethomas3828]

Of your recent videos this was one of the best! Very enjoyable to watch :)

[@gcn]

Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@whssy]

10 year old bike. Rider who is 10 years older. In most cases the older rider will be the biggest factor in bike speed!

[@fultonlopez7846]

Tony Rominger and his hour record on a metal tube bike. From my testing, a lot of the savings in a bike, if not most, is from the tires and wheels and not the frame

[@sergyum]

Well, interesting, but without Power Data I don't know how accurate this test can be...

[@simonrichardson5259]

Well I don’t think it’ll get published in a scientific research journal but as an illustration I think it holds up. If either bike was penalised it would be the Canyon because it was my second run.

[@charliecook6909]

The bike looked so sick with the vision wheels I have to say. I would definitely pick that to ride over the canyon for sure , retro cool all day long , I have a 1989 raleigh banana with modern components and deep front wheel plus a disc wheel my favourite bike by far 👌

[@gcn]

That sounds great! Have you posted any photos of it in our app?

[@charliecook6909]

@Global Cycling Network havent posted it in the app , hopfully it would get a super nice 🤙

[@jordyd8916]

@@gcn I've got a 16 year old 'Trek 1400' in this config. Well maintained, new deep carbon wheels. Posted it in the app about a month ago. Biggest change is the 'whooshing' sound at above 40 km/h. Buts the looks, I love it.

[@rudolphpyatt4833]

So, if you want to take up racing (not the World Tour, just local criterium action), must you have an aero optimized carbon wonderbike? Somehow I doubt that’s true. And as Si says here, certainly not if you’re just riding for fun. But there’s absolutely an industry narrative that you’re not a “serious cyclist” if you’re not running a carbon aero frame with Di2 etc.

[@YippeeSkippie426]

Most riders out there could take their old bike, slap on a set of better wheels and tires, then feel as if they just got a new bike. To me, a "serious cyclist" is someone dedicated to riding any chance they get. Then, there is the racing set...they love this stuff and, when they're not buying it themselves anyway and riding it for the next 10 years, it's the best deal ever.

[@jezza359]

I can’t believe the amount of cynicism in the comments on this. Si is an ex pro and experienced cyclist and probably has a very good idea as to whether he is putting the same effort in. It’s just possible he knows more than the armchair experts in the comments? Thank you Si for another entertaining and informative film.

[@turtleneck369]

sure but they are also getting paid by advertising new products and bikes so there sure is that bias

[@JustOneWolf]

Unless you are actively racing, the only thing that matters is your own fitness and that doesn't change just by adding aero parts.

[@robduncan599]

I also go along with the 'Unless you are racing ' theme. Only my answer is different, it's not fitness it's enjoyment. If it's uncomfortable or a drag then you ain't gonna bother . If the riding the bike is a joy and pleasure, that should be the target?

[@robduncan599]

Personally I think this is the wrong question? Unless you are constantly racing or your life is in a race mentally Cult loop ,and shaving grams cutting air and seconds ? shouldn't the question be how to make that old bike the bike you want to ride ? Isn't the whole point of upgrading that old bike ,to make it the bike you want to ride , ie: comfortable and enjoyable, rather than just that few extra grams shaved and K /hour quicker, only to be thrown back to the back of the shed for another 10 years ? Or is it just me ?

[@GeeFunk84]

Dear GCN Team, I have been following the channel for about five years, since I got the bug again to get back into cycling. I adore the fact that you are based in the Bath-Bristol area, since it's the place I used to live until 10 years ago when I returned to my native country of Hungary. I love when you check in from places I used to walk my dogs at and ride around areas I used to take walks from or to work, passing some of the most well-known Banksy works. I thank you for all the videos that you have been making that inspire people to take up cycling. For me, spondylolysthesis caught up to me as an injury I suffered four or five years ago - that I had been able to manage with rigorous physiotherapy so far - that now stops me from cycling temporarily as I am facing an operation to my spine. I hope I can get back into the saddle ASAP and reclaim some of the Strava medals I've lost in the meantime. I'm taking long walks and get slightly teary-eyed each time a group of cyclists passes me or when my I get a look at my own, old vintage steel bikes in the loft almost critisising me as in 'Why don't you take me out for a spin? It's warm outside!". This goes out to all young people: Take a really good care of your body, serioulsy. It's all fun and games while you're young, but do be reasonable, I plead to you. Be fast, but be catious at the same time. There are no guarantees in life, but blessed are the ones who have a great support system. God bless you all!

[@gcn]

Thanks for reaching out! Great to hear that you are loving our videos, we are very lucky in where we get to film, would you ever come back to this area? Sorry to hear that you've got a long term injury, having time off the bike can be super hard but we hope you'll be back at it soon! Have you got any tips for other people that are having to stay off the bike? 👀

[@ryan6465]

ha, nice try but I won't give up my rim brakes

[@barriobarranco]

I don't need a faster bike...at 54 I've just raised my FTP from 225 to 254 in 6 weeks using SYSTM SUF intervals and Z2 in RGT, I need to work on my weight now as 87kg at 1m69cm is just waaay too much.... Don't get me wrong I'm a consumaholic and love the sound of the postie on the ramp bringing new kit on an almost daily basis, but for gains now I have to take an honest look at myself and fight the amygdala chimp brain that wants to eat lol...

[@nikolapenkov984]

old bike has endurance frame geometry and the new one racing. Comparing old bike with racing geometry (like Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2012) with new one, will have quite less difference.

[@danielliptak951]

I am not sure that this is fair. I have a CANNONDALE SystemSix from 2008 and currently ride a 2022 BMC TMR01. The CANNONDALE is still faster. While the BMC takes out the road noise and is massively more comfortable, the SystemSix is so much stiffer and corners like a madman. I run Enve wheels on both, SRAM red (one clearly electronic and the other mechanical) but wow the speed of the older bike is just fantastic.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

Love the definition of ‘old bike’ - I’m still riding a first generation Trek Madone (2004), which when I put on Zipp 404s tips the scales at just over 7kg. The only ‘new bikes’ I’m in the market for are a gravel bike and - perhaps - a new triathlon TT bike.

[@MarkusFolkesson]

Brilliant last words

[@angelgomez7917]

Hey I am updating my sl3 Astana. Video was just in time

[@M3GRSD]

I wouldn't do Rim specific deep carbon wheels without an aluminum braking surface.

[@belgravedave]

Would love to see what a pair of Lightweight standard 111's would do to the bike.

[@mikespadafora9077]

Let's be honest, if any of these videos have older bikes faster, the sponsors would cancel their sponsorships. As long as GCN has sponsors, all new stuff is better, stiffer, more compliant and faster. GCN is one big commercial. I used to respect these guys, but they sold out long time ago.

[@migueltovar9702]

Do the same process but put some aero handlebars and aero stem!

[@davidmeyer6539]

While not identical to the test GCN did here, I ran my Canyon Endurace back to back with my Aeroad over several rides just short of 68km each. My Endurace averaged 1.6 kph slower than the Aeroad on average, while averaging almost 35 kph on the Aeroad. So I can believe 1.8 kph. That sounds about right. My position wasn't identical bike to bike like Sy's.

[@DamienMcAvoy]

Great video. It got me thinking. How fast could you make the Eurobike with upgrades? New wheels, groupset, aero bars, tyres…

[@gcn]

Now that would be a good video! One for the future maybe

[@stevepink1314]

I’m not surprised that the wheels made the old bike faster, however, 30’s over that distance for simply frame shape, drivetrain and hidden cables is a BIG difference. PS. I need a new bike! 😊

[@kheser9762]

Yeah I was surprised there was that much advantage when arguably in this test the old bike had the deeper section wheels.

[@goodeggnogg7038]

So, there's really nothing in it...especially if you aren't professional...Older bike is no doubt lighter , so it'll be better in the hills and in addition it looks much better too!...

[@swites]

Has anyone ever played chess with themselves? Biases come out and are very hard to stop either way. Even subconsciously. That's why one uses a power meter when comparing.

[@lukewalker1051]

Great video Si...couple of points as we are the same size at 186cm. 1. Your good point about position, closed hip angle aka in and down position, related power delivery and aerodynamics. I ride more 'out and up' than you do even though our contact points would be the same to the frame due to equivalent body size. This is not only more comfortable for me, almost as aero for reasons you discussed, but I can get more power down compared to what would be me riding in your position on a 56cm. I believe many decent cyclists can extrapolate from Lance who at 5'10" and shorter than us, rode a 58cm with 130mm stem. He rode perhaps more out and up aka superman position through the air than any great rider in recent history as the trend is more down and in like you ride. Also Si, you can take a page from the Eddie Merckx who is your and my size and he rode a 58cm with 130mm stem throughout his illustrious career. Eddie, like Lance and pitiful me, rode more stretched out and not quite as low and yes too low, forearms merely catch more air as torso angle is constrained by hip flexors, crank length and hip impingement at the top of the pedal stroke. 2. I am not in the camp that frame tubing shape is very dominant for aerodynamics. This is bike manufacturer propaganda to sell the more bikes. Yes, your aero bike was faster in the test. David Arthur did a wind tunnel test between his more round tube TCR and latest Trek uber sleek aero wundersled Madone and there was virtually nothing between the drag numbers with same wheels. I do concede that wheels matter...and tires btw...and handlebar width. But riding position and wheels/tires matters the most. Thanks for all your great videos over the years, your keen insight and wonderful sense of humor. Cheers from America.

[@jonathanbouchard39]

Some people cycle to get fit, not get fit to cycle, so the heavier your bike, the more resistance, the better. My mate and I were discussing bike upgrades, and we concluded the only sensible upgrade that would improve his riding experience and fitness would be to buy me a better bike. I am still waiting.

[@minchia04]

Nice, good to see you guys following this up

[@gcn]

We aim to please!

[@janatlmb2770]

Love Si's "science" videos. Always wanted to know if buying aero wheels that would cost 50% more then my entire bike was not worth while

[@bluemystic7501]

Aero wheels definitely make a difference.

[@pauldyer3821]

Can't beat the old bike geometry for looks! Looks fantastic with new wheels on it.

[@randellgribben9772]

yes..look at all the 'aero ' bikes now,, side by side.. the pretty much look the same bike

[@onepunchbud1472]

​@@randellgribben9772 very true

[@robertburt1763]

I have just bought.... Drum roll.... A 2012? Cinelli Saetta with Campy Veloce, as an intro into cycling to see if I like it. When the inevitable time comes to upgrade parts, can I 'bolt' new groupsets to it? Or is that not always compatible? Also on this theme, would it be a good idea to upgrade an old frame or just buy a fitted bike off the shelf?

[@evertonyoung4674]

My thing was that if you put the carbon wheels on your specialised bike that you would have a comparable time and you have proof that so well done. you probably could get a bit more time out of it with some modern handlebars,et,also the trend now is 40 deep wheels all the teams are riding those size wheels.

[@jtrichards1231]

Oh, man. Hey, Si! I'll clean your attic out and haul it all, uh. away!

[@csaba675]

I’d assume It’s the tyre that provides the 2/3 of the benefits gained and wheels only contribute 1/3.

[@adaycj]

If you can reply to so many posts, why can't you reply to the ones asking for the power data? You had it in the previous tests.

[@ZenEndurance]

omg. Front skewer pointing straight up into the air shows some people still don't get it.

[@robertragon8904]

Really liked the video, as i ride a bunch of older bikes that don’t have the modern tech. My newest bike, that I picked up last fall, oops, autumn for you Brits, is a 2011 Colnago CLX with Campy Record Titanium. It has Kysrium SL wheels that are probably holding my speed down, but is it worth putting a $2000 set of new deep sections on a bike that only cost me $850 on Craig’s List? So far I have said no. I’m not a racer, but then again, many of us do compete daily on Strava, and I like to see my name at the top of a leaderboard occasionally. I do agree with a lot of the comments about the look of Si’s Campy groupset compared to the current offerings from Shimano/SRAM. The Italians do have style. I personally prefer the thumb shifter on the Campy compared to STI shifters that I retrofitted to my 2008 C-Dale.

[@mee3sy]

I've got c. 2018 Mavic Ksyrium Elites on an endurance bike. With Conti 5000 tubeless tyres, they are still a fantastic set of wheels. Interesting vid Simon, though a proper scientist (Ollie) would only change one variable at a time....

[@i.p.9765]

Great test upgrade. Shure, the aero bike is faster. But way not as that faster the industry wants to make us believe. In fact: the last years were just boring and the only thing just raised was the price of the horses not the aero benefit.

[@robertherrera1546]

Was waiting for this video

[@randydevoe4803]

Why wouldn’t you just ride each bike at say 275w for 10 min, and see data?

[@a1white]

Makes you appreciate how much bikes, not just wheels, have got faster in the last decade. Like you say though, unless you’re racing you don’t need to be that concerned if you haven’t optimised every bit of aero savings available. Just enjoy riding.

[@gcn]

Very true. Any bike is a good bike depending on how you use it!