GM Made the Coyote Engine Before Ford Did?? - The V8 Version of the Vortec 4200

[@pushplay4me]

Have a lot of experience with Cadillac Northstar engines from the time I worked at the dealer. The oil distribution plate that you pulled off is the main source of oil leaks. Using Pirma Tex, right stuff on the outer perimeter seal will help that a lot. Use an impact to remove the main bolts instead of a breaker bar you’ll break less of them. The last generation of Northstar engines was really great ran really strong. The Northstar engine had some popularity in the Sandrail world for a brief time might still be some performance parts out there.

[@dougmedeiros8862]

Thanks for sharing , I was out by the time they came out.

[@dougmedeiros8862]

I heard of a car running on the Salt that was fast with not a lot of work done

[@ericmartin2470]

what is the difficulty level, in your opinion, to rebuild a Northstar LH2 on a scale from 1 to 10.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Thanks so much for the comment. I will be taking all of this advice!

[@pushplay4me]

@@ericmartin2470 if you’re a modern engine mechanic, not particularly hard, probably 5 or 6 middle of the road there’s nothing uniquely special about it. The later versions got much easier to work on than the early versions like in the El Dorado, Deville, Seville. There was a lot of stupid stuff on those.

[@paulwindisch1423]

Northstars were not as terrible as most people think. The oiling system on them is bullet proof. I never saw one with an oiling or bearing problem. When I say never, I was a heavy engine and transmission technician at a Cadillac dealer from 2001-2012, so I had lots of experience with all the Northstar variants. The oil pump drive is pinched between a shoulder on the crank and the front crank pulley, so the bolt torque on the pulley is critical. Head gaskets on the older ones were problematic when owners didn’t maintain the cooling system. Even Dexcool was not a problem (yes, I said that) unless the cooling system was operated with low coolant for extended periods. That is when Dexcool became a “problem”. In stock form, the open deck was never an issue. They didn’t suffer from warped or cracked cylinders. As a matter of fact, I don’t remember having to replace any head gaskets on the RWD version of the Northstar. They did suffer oil leaks from the lower crank case seals, oil manifold, and oil pan, but head gaskets were more an issue on FWD transverse Northstars. To properly reseal the lower end, use the grey GM engine sealant in place of the lower crank case seals and the oil pan gasket. Also, apply a thin bead around the perimeter seal of the oil manifold. Obviously make sure all the parts are cleaned well and oil free. Get a new oil manifold, too. *Bonus info: Dexcool was actually NOT the issue for which it was blamed. There WAS an issue with the water source GM was using to mix 50/50 with the Dexcool for a period of time. This water apparently had high acidity and caused rust issues, particularly in iron block applications. Once they changed water sources, the problem was solved. GM continues to use Dexcool to this day, and it is not an issue at all.

[@andrewnelson3733]

@paulwindisch1423 Thank you for the info

[@davelowets]

They just oiled the ground very well

[@rogerf7265]

Actually Ford came out with the 4.6L OHC 16V Modular engine in 1991 with the 32V coming two years later in the Lincoln Mk VIII. With that aside I have seen the Northstar swapped into both the MR2 and Fiero. I've been mostly a Ford guy during my life but have also owned Chevy and Mopar. At one point I had all three at the same time and I know from experience that parts for the Ford and Mopar were roughly double what the same thing for the Chevy cost. That's because unlike Ford and Mopar, Chevy put the SBC in all of its iterations in millions of vehicles from 1955 until the release of the LS. That economy of scale made parts cheap and led to the development of massive aftermarket support. While there is a large amount of aftermarket support for the others it is nothing compared to the amount for the GM platforms which leads to higher prices. The Coyote unfortunately has been shown to be a very capable platform which due to the somewhat limited availability has driven the prices up. I really enjoy seeing you make power with engines that aren't the norm. Anybody can swap an LS into a Fox body and make it go fast. The 4200 is what brought me to your channel and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you can accomplish with the Northstar.

[@captainchicken8983]

Those "InTech" modulars that came in the Lincolns have a lot of potential from the factory, block and crank are good for 1000 horse, and have six main cap bolts with heat treated aluminum block made in fiats teksid plant, only main weak points are cooling, and connecting rods

[@mpetersen6]

I worked with a guy whose nephew put a 4.2 into a 37 Chevy. When asked why uis reply was "any idiot can stick an LS in".

[@brianstough5286]

@@captainchicken8983 and, as stated over and over and over, the COST of hot-rodding a ford is usually (at least) double the COST of hot-rodding a GM

[@captainchicken8983]

@@brianstough5286 indeed, those connecting rods and pistons are each over a band a set lol

[@rogerf7265]

@@brianstough5286 that's a lesson that I learned first hand.

[@mattbrady2160]

Very excited for this. In the late 90s these got a little bit of attention for their 8500-rpm potential but then LS happened and these weren't worth the effort. In the meantime GM fixed the old Northstar issues, paired them with rwd 6l80e's, people figured out how to make SBE engines live at insane power levels, and the Cadillacs that got these engines depreciated to scrap prices. Perfect setup for some good, cheap fun!

[@theoriginalpauly]

The LS headed off so much innovation, just because it's so bloody good at being basic AF. 😂

[@steverebuilds152]

The reason for the Cadillacs being reduced to scrap prices was the FWD setup with a starter that was mounted under the intake and got hot and failed. To replace it.... It cost less for insurance to total these vehicles after GM purposefully voided warranties on all these cars to avoid recalls

[@mattbrady2160]

@@steverebuilds152 RWD SRX-es and STS- es are also basically scrap prices now too.

[@steverebuilds152]

@@mattbrady2160 yea well the undermount intake starter was put in those too.

[@xxxxxxxxxx6903]

​@@steverebuilds152- Yes, thank you! Between the porosity of the blocks/heads, the short life transmissions, and having to remove half a days worth of parts to R&R the starter-motor. That's a hard NO for me! 💩💩💩

[@PvtBungle]

Had me at Vortec 4200 but got me with Northstar 😂 got my sub

[@make-it-work4u]

Eagle has forged h beam rods for $650 Its cheap insurance so you don't window the block and you will also be able to let her really shine under boost..

[@cb84capri]

My vote is to put it into the Fairmont, and race it.

[@cb84capri]

"What's under the hood?" Opens hood, "It's just a 4.6."

[@aussieausdeutschland4245]

Better still, a Barra. Fairmonts had em, just not the shitty fox body ones.... you know those Kangaroo chasing ones

[@Skwisgar2322]

People forget that a modified version of the N*/Aurora engine was used in the Indy Racing League. Granted, it was pretty heavily modified, but it was the same architecture.

[@billfog393]

I watched em race

[@LionsTigersBears]

When cadillac used to race those flat looking race cars they used the northstar built to the hilt ran them hard and fast.

[@Skwisgar2322]

@@LionsTigersBears Le Mans Prototypes, yeah, I had forgotten about those.

[@Iamthestig42069]

Both the lemans and Indycar engines were based on the 4.0 liter version so technically they are both “Aurora” engines

[@JsliceQB1026]

I sure hope it didn't have an internal head gasket leak due to tty head bolts that pull out the threads due to them Not being coarse thread bolts. Either way long story short unless you use the North Star performance headstud kit, dont do it. The motor is only worth it If you choose to use the kit to drill and tap out the headstuds to Ls7 size bolts.

[@Kenzo-bp1zs]

Your a GM guy, that’s why you like it. Nothing wrong with that.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Eh. I just grew up with GMs. I'll probably never buy a GM truck. I like to think I look at all the options and go for the best bang the buck. That usually happens to be GM.

[@Kenzo-bp1zs]

What are your thought on the 32 valve 4.6 Ford? Lincoln Mark8, and Aviators had them. Mod motors been around since 1990, cross bolted mains.

[@crashfisticuffs]

I always wanted to put one of these in a 1st gen Chevy S10.

[@rodneybyrd9516]

NICE teardown analysis!! As a Chrysler tech in the '80s and '90s, even with our K-cars we used to laugh at the Cadillac 4100s and later 4.5/4.9 versions. The Quad4 and Northstar/Aurora (4.6/4.0) engines started to get our attention, for power output anyway. Those first few Quads with 5spd manuals were really little rockets! Then they detuned them (warranty concerns I'm thinking), and they were still high output per liter, but not such a big deal. Your work with the 4200 Vortec has really impressed me, and I'm sure you'll master the Northstar V8 as well. Put it in the Fairmont and blow all the minds you can!!

[@allenl9031]

One of the reasons the Quad 4 got derated, is when they added a balance shaft system. My first gen was indeed a rocket in the mid range.

[@rodneybyrd9516]

@@allenl9031 I remember driving a 1988 Cutlass Calais 5spd and being really impressed. Then in the mid '90s my (now ex-)wife wanted a sporty car and we went and looked at Sunfire Pontiacs. I was excited to see the Quad available in the "GT" model, but it was lackluster. We ended up getting her a well maintained, used, Dodge Stealth instead.

[@rosscullen531]

​@@rodneybyrd9516I absolutely lov the cutlass Calais quad 4. My uncle worked for Oldsmobile and gm for over 40 years and I remember him telling me about how great the Calais is and the quad 4. I got to see the Olds Aurora engine before it came out in production. Basically a 4.0 Northstar

[@BruceLee-xn3nn]

What was it about Chrysler turbo cars back then? I never knew anyone that could keep one running. My neighbor had a brand new turbo Dodge Colt and it stayed broke.

[@rodneybyrd9516]

@@BruceLee-xn3nn A Colt is technically a Mitsubishi product, evolving into the successful Eclipse/Talon twins, but the domestic turbos were pretty good. The 2.2L cars (even non-turbo) had head gasket problems, leaking externally mostly. The main problem we saw at the dealership level was vacuum leaks at the plastic vacuum harness which ran behind the valve cover, right over the exhaust/turbo heat. We kept the plastic harness and all the rubber elbows in stock and it was usually an easy fix. Replaced a few bad wastegate solenoids (ask a Grand National owner about his) and a few oil/coolant feed hoses over the years.

[@SloppyMechanics]

the gm parts crossover archeology never ceases to amaze

[@brianstough5286]

and, somehow they can do it WITHOUT making an oil change a nightmare (oil on suspension components - STOCK)

[@highbrass7563]

Yep

[@dougmedeiros8862]

That is why I own 4 of them Cadillac powered Riviera and 67C 20

[@_..-.._..-.._]

It seems like common sense to me🤷 that’s why I was born into a ford family and went to Chevy the second I started having to fix them. Why Ford has to design so many things from scratch is beyond me, they seem to like spending R&D money, let’s make a new bellhousing pattern for each engine and share zero info with the guy designing the body and the guys designing other engines. They finally went modular with the 4.6/5.4 but even those have a ton of different parts.

[@_..-.._..-.._]

Are you complimenting Nivlac for finding out these things or GM for being smart enough to share engineering and make things simpler? Either way I agree 😂

[@Qnickel27]

Super excited for this build series! As a 57 Bel Air owner myself my vote has to be for putting it in your 57!

[@Hippie9D]

Finally someone gave the Northstar some love! Get the N* performance head bolts and you'll be good

[@929cosmodude]

i love the way you look for unpopular engines that have huge potential, i have one for you, a 6 cyl twin cam engine, cheap and available worldwide, very similar rods to the 4200 but with a shorter stroke , same diameter pistons and crank as well, and a gm engine with the same trigger pattern as well. 6VE1

[@RobZombahr]

I’m a Honda guy. But i love watching your stuff. If the open deck proves to be an issue on the Northstar, I’m sure a block guard could be machined pretty easily. Definitely helps the Honda B/H series guys out with bore rigidity. I’m sure it would do the same for you

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

True but I've seen block guards (mostly the cheap stuff, why do people skimp on parts inside an engine?) Cause overheating issues under high loads and high rpm too, my understanding is CSS I think is the only brand that is proven so far not to cause that, at least in D stuff, but seeing as you didn't note D along with B and H I assume youre not a fan of the single jingles lol

[@DrewLSsix]

​@goosenotmaverick1156 studding is a cheaper easier option that doesn't have cooling issues.

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

@@DrewLSsix agreed, my point was merely to point out the fact that Northstar are already prone to overheating and adding something that will increase those chances feels like a bad idea

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

@@DrewLSsix so, I guess what I was trying to say is... Duh, tell me something I don't already know, I was obviously trying to point out the flawed logic.

[@marktilley388]

The Nissan VK56 is another you could look into as well

[@Calvin-Nelson]

I have. Looks like a great package!

[@Flitzer514]

The VK is badass, and cams and stuff are make by the aftermarket@@Calvin-Nelson

[@marktilley388]

@@Flitzer514 the bad thing is that you really don't see them at the drag strip very often. I would love to swap one into a fox body, or a s14 240sx but that would require some real chasis work to get it low enough

[@fn2s145]

​@marktilley388 helped swap a 13 with a vk, great package but it's a monster to get placed right, and low enough. Plus the starter intake thing is killing me.

[@robertparker6654]

BS

[@normansanchez8730]

Never seen that motor open before... very impressive engineering. I can see you making more than a thousand horses with the right prep work.

[@donaldgminski8621]

Anyone who's owned one, or worked at an auto shop has seen one opened....

[@normansanchez8730]

@@donaldgminski8621 looks like a really good platform to make some power. Since he got the later version.

[@HaefentheZebra]

It'd be fun to see this in something super niche like a Cadillac Allanté. Talk about an upgrade!

[@DavidB7474]

Dart Machinery is now building blocks for the 2JZ engines. Six cylinders with boost have been the rage since that Supra came out in 1993. Look as diesel engines, huge cylinders low rpm, lots of boost. Plenty of gears. The dohc North Star is pretty stout. Looks the new Corvette Z06 dohc engine. It’s unreal!!

[@marcust510]

Became a fan of the Northstar/Aurora engines when I stumbled across some old IMSA racing footage from the early 90s a while back. There were so many manufacturers apart of it, but one that stuck out (& kind of blew my mind) was the Oldsmobile running in the series AND with the Cutlass of all things. It was racing with the Northstar/Aurora engine under the hood. Pulling 9000+ rpm & I think the power was in the 600 range (going off of memory so I could be wrong about that horsepower number). Knowing the reputation of these engines I was shocked to see they had a racing program!

[@dougmedeiros8862]

Really put together

[@dougmedeiros8862]

Not bad for 4.0 and 4.6

[@assaultlick2169]

Really enjoying your content on lessee known domestic engines. This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. Great work, Calvin !

[@Paul_D_Lashley]

I built a 66 mustang with a north star engine and a 5 speed years ago. They make performance parts for them now and they are pretty popular in dune buggies. They sound awesome and have a smooth torque curve. I’d love to do another one and twin turbo it.

[@manofchaitea6904]

Why not a superior 4.6 4V from a Ford? The cobra motor was far superior, produced better horsepower and far more reliable. Also cheaper and easier to find.

[@Paul_D_Lashley]

Because. Why ask why. I had them both and all the parts plus it was cool. I’d definitely do another one but I’m LS swapping my 65 fastback at the moment. I know everyone loves to get their feelings hurt about the LS engines but I really don’t care and it’s a better designed Windsor anyway.

[@BC08]

Northstar swapping a Ford makes zero sense. Ford made an objectively far superior engine with the Modular 4-valves.

[@BC08]

@@Paul_D_Lashley LS, like the Windsor, is a boring AF in-line valve engine. 🗑️

[@Paul_D_Lashley]

@@BC08 yeah boring is what everyone’s thinking with 500-1,000hp out of junkyard LS engines. We just don’t get the excitement from scattering a coyote all over the track or street. It’s called the KISS method but you have to be smart enough to know the last S is for you.

[@jqureshi4943]

For the open deck, devcon is a budget alternative that can be used to close it up. The Boostedboiz have used this process a couple times, if I recall correctly.

[@shaadydog1]

Why use Devcon when you got stuff like Hardblok or Embecco 885 that are machinable, and you can still use the sugar method… or could just weld aluminum support blocks in place?

[@jqureshi4943]

@@shaadydog1 devcon is just what I have seen used, I'm sure those you listed are viable options as well

[@ls_812]

I was trying to remember what that stuff was called.

[@Deadpool-ODST]

@@shaadydog1 I was just thinking this as well. Welding would definitely be a viable option.

[@pattman96]

Back at my dad's muffler shop, a lot of Cadillac's with the North star motor's for exhaust work on the daily. Had one guy want to straight pipe both rear muffler and the converter. Swear on this day one of the best sounding v8's. Excited for what you do with this build!!!!!!!!!🎉

[@davidanderson2393]

I had almost completely forgotten about the Northstar engines until a while back seeing the Car Wizard channel pulling a Northstar apart and making some improvements for reliability. I was surprised to see someone was making stud kits and other bits to help make them live a more trouble free life, can't wait to see what you come with on this V8 platform.

[@mpetersen6]

I would have thought GM could have figured the stud issue out early on. And put a closed deck on it. Or is it the close bore spacing. The Chrysler 2.7 and 3.5 had closed decks with the cylinder liners cast in. But those two engines have a much wider bore spacing same as the Hemi l think. No ten thou less, 4.450" versus 4.0157" on the Northstar.

[@nas8326]

It's car wizards cousin they love those north stars

[@awaren8375]

Wizard?you mean he will actually work on something? Seems like he always says it was to dirty or to old and not worth fixing, really curious if he's ever spent any actual time twisting wrenches in reality,not just making videos,but I guess if your a wizard...

[@steverebuilds152]

The best improvement for reliability of this engine. Quite complicated. Custom aftermarket intake with a redesign without the under mount starter

[@RandomDude989]

And a company called Northstar Peformance makes an awesome Stud Kit for this engine to drill/tap and fix the issues with all Northstar Engines.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

I was thinking a helicoil would help as well. Aviation use them for aluminum parts which increases strength and metal compatibility since bolts are a certain grade of steel

[@davelowets]

​@@shadowopsairman1583Nah, just drill it out and go larger with the bolts. Helps with head gasket sealing also

[@parkeraskew]

I know a dude with a later northstar v8 engine that has 500,000 miles on it and climbing (Highway), because it is bulletproof. I always thought he just got lucky, but this helps explain a lot about its life, as well as his common and early fluid and spark plug services.

[@Slider68]

Back in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's I used to regularly drive 10 hours to work in another city for a week at a time. Because I had to bring equipment that couldn't be flown, I'd always rent an STS or DTS (preferred the STS with the high output ~300hp) for the trip with Northstar engines. In total I must have put on around 100,000 miles on dozens of different Northstar engines. Only once did I have any issues, and that was a blown lower radiator hose. Instead of doing the right thing and getting towed immediately, I just kept driving (with the ac on) through the night because I was aware of the Northstar's ability to drive without coolant. It did lose more 1/2 its power, but it never failed and once the hose was replaced the next day the engine was back to 100%. One time I was lucky enough to find an STS-V available. That thing was incredible, with its ~470 HP. I've always felt the Northstar got an unfair bad reputation. Those engines run very well, get decent fuel economy, produce lots of power, and are very responsive to throttle changes.

[@Bolton115]

I've talked to an old timer GM dealership tech who swore that the secret to Northstar longevity is flushing the coolant every two years and replacing those little gold dissolving coolant pellets GM recommends into the system with the new coolant. He said when customers did that the engines never came in with blown head gaskets.

[@jaronvaughn4520]

The “girdle” you are talking about is called a “bed plate.” The first plate you pulled off of the bottom end is a girdle.

[@kevinengland4042]

120% vote for the Fairmont N* combo......with a 76mm turbo! It also needs reground cams for a 7500-8000 rpm redline

[@donaldvincent]

Always break tight head bolts, (Main caps, Rod bolts, etcetera), loose starting with a DOWNARD stroke. Let gravity (your body weight) help you, and you won't push your engine all over the shop or worse yet, knock it over. I've seen both. BTW: I love the cluttered shop, it means you have a busy mind.

[@paulkenney1074]

The 4.0 North Star in the Oldsmobile aroura and the Shelby used it in the Shelby Seire 1

[@Hopalong..75]

Would it be feasable to weld in some supports at the top of the deck to add strength to the block?

[@yurimodin7333]

16:10 I have found that for whatever reason I snap fewer bolts when I break loose with an impact gun.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Yeah. I have not had the same success rate.

[@stephenhood2948]

Northstars are great motors when they are working correctly. Keeping them in this state is the tricky part. I'm really interested in seeing where this setup goes, especially after seeing what you have done with the 4200s. Great video!!

[@rosscullen531]

Great video Calvin! This is really working for you to spin off into these informative videos because people want to see and hear more from you. I love this channel and I think a lot of people feel the same way.

[@hotironforge1385]

I was on the tail end of working on those engines in cars professionally. The two biggest complaints I can think of were they leaked every fluid in them and the chassis’s they were put in made them pretty hard to work on due to no space. I actually kinda liked them quite a bit though. They are pretty cool little v8’s

[@Nobody913.]

First video I have seen of yours and man you have my attention!

[@CJGeibe]

My biggest regret was not buying a pile of the STS-v blower/intakes when they had GM new units on ebay for under $500

[@robertjohnson4784]

Would love to see a Turbo charge Northstar My my vote is the Fairmont. I think it would be stupid crazy.

[@stuffandjunkandthings364]

i vote for "off the rails". Some of the lower end parts (separator plate) is, as far as I know, unobtainium. might have to try and find another solution for that one. Another GM engine of the era that people overlook is the 3900v6 (LZ9). Has VVT (albeit just one for everything), LS sized bore (3.9 bore), pretty good cylinder heads (280cfm) and are pretty plentiful in scrapyards.

[@SoI_Badguy]

Wow, that is a pretty huge bore for a v6.

[@ErikHenrichsen]

@@SoI_Badguy The Chevy 4.3 (262) V-6 has a 4" bore. And GMC made a 305 cubic in V-6 with a 4.25" bore. GMC made quite a few large displacement V-6 engines over the years, some with bores exceeding 5" diameter.

[@nojustno242]

Isn't that the cut down North Star V8 that they used for Oldsmobiles?

[@Levibetz]

That oil system is INCREDIBLE! I've never seen mains passages that were actually shaped to aid flow. Usually it's a bunch of straight drilled holes at 90deg angles flowing off hopes and dreams. Don't forget, they raced the 4.0l Aurora version of this engine at Indy. I don't know how similar the Indy version is, but I could see that high quality oil system really helping it endure and handle the rpms necessary (probably 10k?)

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

I always heard a rumor that the Northstar was theoretically designed as a racing engine and then redesigned for road car use, I don't think that's a true thing, but I have heard it multiple times from multiple sources at Cadillac dealerships. Still fairly certain that's not how it went, but I always thought it was a funny backstory for an engine in granny's car.

[@steverebuilds152]

Well this engine failed because of horrible engineering. Mounting the starter underneath the intake was HORRIFIC. GM voided warranties on these cars so insurance would total them when starters failed. It was an endless money pit for gm

[@Levibetz]

@@steverebuilds152 Starter under the intake is a very normal thing on DOHC V8s, the Toyota 1UZ is the same way and legendary in reliability. Way easier to change on a transverse car than screwing around underneath most likely. But yeah a timing belt V8 transverse is not something GM dealers were used to dealing with yet.

[@Davesworld7]

@@steverebuilds152 Let's see what you have engineered. The common points of failure are correctable on this engine and I see amazing engineering at every point, the exceptional attention to mains oiling passages is most impressive. I'm a Ford guy but I really like this engine as well as the new Gemini engine on the Corvette except I am not a fan of flat cranks which is why they limited the displacement to 5.5 liters. These two engines have something in common with the Porsche 928 engine, an upper and lower block and bottom-end stability. I call bullshit on GM voiding warranties, even the most suicidal automaker would never want their cars being totaled over one part. I never in my life saw any cars with this engine that had a salvage title and just needed a starter. You also are not giving insurance companies any credit. Nobody would declare a total loss over a warranty and a starter.

[@davelowets]

​@@steverebuilds152That's total bullshit... WHY would ANY insurance company pay for a starter repair to BEGIN with. Car insurance does NOT cover mechanical repairs

[@Tipsy652]

In the 90’s corvette had an optional 32v overhead cam V8 I believe developed by marine? I believe it was offered three years.

[@tbboardhed2]

I love my northstar. I have an 07 stsV. 4.4l lc3 supercharged. Few upgrades and a tune and I'm over 500hp at the crank. ( yet to dyno ). I love it.

[@banneddamn]

Or...... you could use a ford 4.6 4v. Which is better in every conceivable way. Reliable. Proven to be able to make as much power as you'd want.... and will straight bolt in to a Fairmont with the right combo of oem parts.

[@randomdude4669]

This dude doesn't seem fond of ford engines 😂

[@damons6759]

Also comparing it to a Honda K series is a joke. Look at the ports and CFM flow compared to a K series.

[@Bolton115]

@@damons6759 Which one came out first? (Genuine question, I really don't know).

[@douglasfrompa593]

my vote would be for the "off the rails" approach. I could see this paired with a light chassis. Something from the 80's or maybe the 90's maybe. It would be REALLY INSANE to make it all wheel drive, but still on a small chassis.

[@jakebmorgan696]

Like a Fiat 500?

[@stevemacdaddy9909]

Definitely the small car with the toll cage. Small cars and big motors are what I like.

[@whipplecreekracing]

Put that Northstar in the Talon! Thanks for the breakdown, and inspection of the Northstar. It was very educational

[@stevec5280]

It is possible to close the deck. If you REALLY wanted to. Also, I say go COMPLETELY off the rails an put it in a 32 Ford hotrod. Like Milners car from American Graffiti

[@PJHOOKA]

I knew this was coming! Great to see you guys going a different path.

[@JSCB-365]

I really dig this type of build. Taking something that's under rated in the public opinion category then build it into what its potential allows. This is a great way to get something Fast for Cheap.

[@tscustomstation]

I used to do the head bolt inserts all the time not too bad of a job as long as you have the kit and a couple good holes with threads but after doing the upgrade you have full steel thread insert

[@stellingbanjodude]

Working at Various GM dealerships thru the years, I was always impressed with how these things ran. I remember selling many thread-serts on the earlier models, not so much on the later ones.

[@troubled81]

I highly recommend you check out the 3.9l to 5.0l jag motor. It ran in trans-am with ported stock heads and make 700hp naturally aspirated in the early 2000s.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Not common parts wise, just like the Ford Barra. Heck SB 2 Heads work on a G1 SBC.

[@troubled81]

@@shadowopsairman1583 it was also used in the Thunderbird and Lincoln LS. As an added bonus fact they were cast in Windsor Ontario using the Cosworth process.

[@bleachstain9785]

I had one in a Lincoln LS, the weak point with those was the timing chain. Mine snapped just shy of 150 and sent a piston flying through the hood when it all let loose.

[@TailoredChassisSolutions]

Im glad this is getting attention, I went down a rabbit hole on this engine a few months ago out of curiosity for a cheap 4cam v8 alternative to current options. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it! VTC, modern port flow, simple timing set. Love it

[@randallmason9687]

There was a Guy in PA that was building Northstar engines, and using them in 32 Fords. If I remember correctly, He claimed 500 hp. It may be worth a Google search.

[@brianstough5286]

anything is better in a 32 ford than a ford engine!

[@randallmason9687]

Look out! Shots fired! I have a Chevy, a Ford, and a Dodge. All have over 200,000 miles!

[@anthonysgarage]

The Lincoln Mark VIII engine came out the same year as the Northstar. Both were all aluminum 4.6L DOHC V8’s. Except for Ford engine was quite dependable, and are only $300-$500 for good runners. You just don’t have the VVT.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

The VVT was the #1 thing I was after

[@ronaldfarmer1208]

I'm impressed to say the least. Will definately be checking back.

[@eddiereichel9354]

Worked on one of these that had vvt issues. Ordered OEM solenoids and read up in service info that ya need a special tool which I of course didn't have. I found out online ya can line em up with drill bits

[@shadowopsairman1583]

I had to do vvt on a toyota engine. Vvt is overrated.

[@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104]

​@@shadowopsairman1583Production engines with VVT typically have about 20% more power than a non VVT counterpart.

[@cheynsanders5506]

Chevy actually did it a few times. The Northstar is a good example but so too is the original LT5 in the C4 ZR1 Corvette. Both of these engines are very interesting and don’t get near enough love, so I’m glad you’re bringing attention to them

[@mikehoncho5389]

I have a complete LT5 in my garage. I’d like to put it in something someday.

[@joshuaearnheart2756]

Late to reply, but GM didn’t build that engine in the c4. Yal Chevy boys try to take credit for anything that was halfway useful

[@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104]

​@@joshuaearnheart2756The LT5 was a lot more than half way useful and there's a lot more to the story than you are insinuating. A lot was going on at that time with Oldsmobile developing the Quad 4 and Lotus being bought by GM. I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence that the Northstar ended up in an Oldsmobile. I also heard that Cosworth was involved in the design of the LT5. I'm just saying there is a lot more to the story. Also, the fact that Mercury Marine built the production LT5s was only done because of the complexity of the engine and GM didn't have enough people who could hand build production engines.

[@joshuaearnheart2756]

@@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104 GM buys stuff right when things are about to be successful and then takes credit for it. Like the LS…

[@Emilthehun]

Finally someone who builds a northstar!!! I can't wait! There used to be a company who offered head work port polish on these and promised 75hp+

[@akpatrick4137]

Ford was only one year behind North Star with the dohc 4.6 liter mod motor. Which is a very reliable engine for higher power

[@buzzwaldron6195]

But in 1960's Olds had a W-43 DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...

[@bvward]

Calvin, put it in the '57 for GM-ness! Have you looked at the Toyota UZ family of quad-cam V8's? Popular swap in Australia and NZ for off-road trucks and performance vehicles...

[@overlybuilt5110]

Love all the content and all the obscure, dare to be different paths!! In our shop it’s much of the same, oddball combos are always more interesting. We are HUGE fans of propane power. Would you be able to dive a little deeper into the option of deleting the VVT in a follow up video? I’d like to try running this with an LS MSD6014 box, turbo/propane.

[@michaelblacktree]

Most of the Northstar engines don't have VVT. So you could just use one of those.

[@simontaylor6718]

Propane👍

[@13_13k]

Way back in the early 1980s one of my older sisters dated a guy who had a '79 or '80 Chevy short bed 4x4 that ran dual fuel, gasoline and it had a big propane tank in the bed. I was only about 14 years old and just getting into cars and I always thought propane was a great alternative to gas especially if you could run dual fuel system.

[@Bolton115]

@@13_13k I'm from Utah and there dwelled a lot of Mexicans. Since propane was literally eight cents a gallon in Mexico during the '80s, lots of rigs down there ran it, and we saw them fairly regularly in a small shop where I worked. It was a pretty simple system but it seemed to work pretty well.

[@13_13k]

@@Bolton115 --- I agree with you about running propane and it being a pretty simple straightforward system. The only drawback I could see is the size of the tank and either losing bed space in a pick up truck or trunk space (if that is even allowed) in a regular passenger vehicle. You being from Utah and myself from Los Angeles, there is a large market for propane use all over our states, not just for rural residential, mobile homes, small businesses, farms but in the city also. If you go to Baja, or mainland Mexico, the use of propane is large everywhere. It is cheaper South of the border than here in the states because of regulations, taxes, the usual government extortion tactics to profit off our hard earned pay as many times as they can possibly get us to hand over our money. I'm curious about what hoops they have for us to jump through if we wanted to install and use a propane system in a vehicle these days. Especially here in California.

[@802Garage]

I have always said the Northstar is heavily underrated. Obviously it had its issues and it's a shame it got such a bad reputation. It was GM actually making a modern V8 engine that could have moved us past the LS. Not that we don't love a good LS, but ya know. Also unfortunate most of them were longitudinal of course. If the engine had done better, that would be different too. At least we know there are plenty cheap in the junkyards!

[@mpetersen6]

DOHC 32V V-8S are impressive technology but they are freaking bulky. The major advantage with OHV V-8s or V-6s is packaging. Too bad Chrysler never put a DOHC set up on the 4.7.

[@802Garage]

@@mpetersen6 Big bois to be sure!

[@scottysgarage4393]

Still waiting for someone to come up with a rational explanation why they imagine OHC is "moving ahead". It's been around as long as pushrods, it's invariably top-heavy and pointlessly complex, all to accomplish less for more money...

[@scottysgarage4393]

@@mpetersen6 The 4.7 was a horrid enough mill without adding more parts.

[@802Garage]

@@scottysgarage4393 Depends on what you mean by less. He went over some of the advantages in the video. If what you are saying is universally true, companies would not use OHC and DOHC designed period. You know this is true because companies would never spend more money for no gain. There are off course efficiencies to keep in mind, so some changes are due to requirements, not just power, but go ask a Yamaha engineer what the point of it all is.

[@mjbrome]

Yes that oil pump is spun by friction. The balancer pulley is what spins it so make sure that thing is torqued down tight. Did my Deville's head gaskets and it knocked until I was informed on the Cadillac forum.

[@thomasjohnson1142]

I bought a 05 Cadillac and give it my mom and that North Star engine is well over 300,000 miles and still rollin . But I’m excited to see how it stands up to some power adders.

[@Underpantsniper]

A lot of the honda guys use an epoxy filling around the cylinders to make the k series a "closed" deck on higher boost applications.

[@aeroflopper]

im sure they put concrete in volvo blocks

[@badgermetal]

Love these teardown videos. Those oil passages look nice to clean and inspect being that big and wide open. Very interesting design. The prices on ebay look good compared to other engines with the same tech and half the cylinders.

[@qwaszxpolkmncvb]

When thinking about GM aluminum engines, don't forget to consider the Rover V8.

[@IgoByaGo]

My dad's STS-V has a blower on it and it is pretty freaking awesome. It has nearly 200,000 miles on it too and runs strong.

[@911delorean]

Looks like Northstar Performance has a couple goodies on their site. MLS head gaskets, main and head stud kits, upgraded cams and rods.

[@PullStartStables]

Always thinking, always innovating! Awesome!

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Can't stop, won't stop!

[@IOwnCalculus]

I'm here for both the Northstar content, as well as finding out Holley has the ability to control the 6L80 via the Terminator. That potentially solves the issue of controlling the 6L on a 24x LS.

[@newtonfirefly3584]

Have You looked at FuelTech which also handles all VVT with all engines, costs less, has more advanced S/W; also HalTech, Motec ?

[@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104]

The LS4 guys are chomping at the bit to find an easy way to control the 6L80.

[@Ellington_Industrial_Arts]

Can't wait to see what you do with the Northstar. This should be epic!

[@_..-.._..-.._]

I’ve realized that any engine (or car, really) that has bad initial press never recovers from the public hate. Dohc (and some sohc) Subarus for instance, metal mls head gaskets fixed 99% of the sealing issues, but everyone still claims that ALL subies blow head gaskets, same with Saturn 1.9s and Northstars. On the diesel end, It took GM making the _nearly_ perfect V8 diesel to get away from the negative press of the various NA idi diesels, even though every single model of old GM diesel can be reliable with a few updated parts and an owner/service tech that isn’t a complete dolt. They never “converted” gas engines to diesel, but everyone and their uncle still makes this claim and calls them garbage. The LB7 duramax did have injector design faults for a year or two and guys still act like every version made in the last 23 years has injector problems.

[@Bolton115]

I'm a GM guy, and the Oldsmobile diesel heads physically bolt right up to a gas Olds 350B block. The Olds diesel was a converted gas engine. GM themselves said so, as did the aforementioned cylinder head direct fit. It was a common hack back in the day to get 12:1CR for a track car. The big block Chevy derived 6.junk diesels got their rep for a reason. The original big block Chevy was barely adequate in the bottom end department in a passenger car, let alone those main bearing spinning 427 industrial engines. I almost put one in this bus, back in the day, but every single one in the wrecking yard had the same sucked valves and spun bearing issues. And they were $2500 for a buildable core-on 1994 dollars. I had a yard full of old Cadillacs, and their beefy 500cid V8s were actually designed to be that displacement. Fun fact: Cadillac actually designed that V8 to go up to 600cid, but then the gas crunch hit in 1974 so they stopped at 500. GM made its best decision ever with the Kevorkian-like mercy killings of their car V8 based diesel program. The Duramax is a fantastic engine.

[@jimlathrop8603]

Love this engine. Putting one in a vaga bolted to a T5 trans. I decked the block .035 for a better quench and wont lose compression when i de-shroud the valves. Will be watching to see what you do!

[@bobroberts2371]

It could be argued that the Northstar was somewhat based on ( some ) lessons learned from the mid 90's the LQ1 Twin Dual Cam 3.4 L 60* V6 found in GM W body cars.

[@kenmoule825]

A lot of people forgot about those. Mercury Marine went this direction to 60°. Most people also missed these in Lincoln around 1990 I do believe. I was a wrench back then

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Learned from in 1960's Olds had a W-43 DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...

[@lunkydog]

Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the K model, you probably know about the upper cylinder epoxy reinforcement that's done over the sugar that's then dissolved out.

[@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions]

That's exactly what i was gonna suggest

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Yep. I'm aware. They seem to do that for the really high HP combos. I hope to not be there with this, but we will see

[@andrewknowles3745]

The sealing passages on the girdle have me worried. That looks like an easy way to lose oil pressure on an older engine. It's like the LS barbell & cam cover on steroids

[@Bloodcurling]

Midwest Cadillac Repair. There's only one repair shop in Chicago that will rebuild and repair these engines. Others want to do an engine swap with a junkyard replacement. Engines' been discontinued in 2011. A decade old engine with 200k miles isn't the best path for repair. Repaired my GXP Bonneville with 120k miles and original owner always changed the oil. Tech said it was extremely clean

[@DrFiero]

I have the FWD variation of this in my '01 Seville STS. And another one sitting on the ground attached to a 4T80 getting ready to go into a modded '87 Fiero. I'll probably do the NorthStar Performance head stud mod on that one since it 100% will not be driven gently!

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Do it for sure

[@NDC1115]

Northstar in a Fiero will be a screamer!

[@kskip4242]

He'll ya brother! 😊🤘

[@Bolton115]

That Fiero will be embarrassing some Tesla Plaids in the quarter mile, I'm sure!!

[@DrFiero]

@@Bolton115 - Dunno about that! But at least I can just keep going, and not keep recharging. ;)

[@thegrumpyoldmillennial328]

I was reading up on the flow numbers of these recently. The last iteration NS heads flow as much as the 1st gen coyotes. Personally I think you should chuck it into the fwd setup first. Just to prove that the rotting fwd caddy's all over the place are pretty capable as they are by just adding boost

[@jameshatton4211]

Front wheel drive V8 on boost 😲

[@madmod]

those transaxles die at stock power level, let alone with stome stank behind it @@jameshatton4211

[@midnight347]

​@jameshatton4405 hello torque steer

[@justinhobart8747]

🤔 GM... Well, the 32 Valve DOHC LT 5 in the C4 Vett came out way before that... A North Star would be a great idea for a performance engine build... However, finding compatible aftermarket performance parts could prove challenging and a bit expensive. I would definitely recommend upgrading the rods and pistons and headstuds, which should be pretty easy to do, with as much port work as you can. They did make a supercharged version of the North Star, I'm just saying 😉 as I definitely would add some boost. You're probably going to have to get some custom cams ground or something for it as well. Also as my favorite car is a 57' Chevy.... Well, I think you know my choice. 😉👍

[@delbertmcfinklestein8576]

You are referring to the ZR1 engine and that was designed by Lotus.

[@newtonfirefly3584]

Yes there was the Aluminium LT-1 [not -5] with DOHC, 4v/c, 350 c.i., designed by an engineer from Europe for the Corvette, with excellent performance.

[@lb9gta307]

​@@delbertmcfinklestein8576Lotus was owned outright by GM at the time so the OP can call the LT5 a GM engine

[@austinhowze6280]

Ford built dohc engines in ww2

[@buzzwaldron6195]

And in 1960's Olds had a DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...

[@kskip4242]

Northstar was great,especially after 2005. The northstar got unnecessary bad name, All because people did not understand it back then and did not know what to do with it. I cannot tell you how happy this makes me that you're showing the north star the attention that it is due! 👍

[@WoodLox]

GM Nivlac57 great research on the Northstar/Aurora 4.4 which was Oldsmobile development. Atlas ❤️

[@WoodLox]

The DSM with the 4.6 sound right down your alley. Wicked

[@derekbennett5896]

Dude I always was impressed with the northstar, always wondered about the performance capabilities of it too. Hope you find out

[@longsleevethong1457]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmiToKuje9GMaa8si=rrwaT3auqZ8FZA6-

[@longsleevethong1457]

Oldsmobile raced it.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Even more wonder, in 1960's Olds had a DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...

[@Copper_Amaru]

Crazy this was technically developed by the R&D team at Oldsmobile, which later got a six-cylinder variant of the Northstar called Shortstar.

[@Bolton115]

I thought they put Shortstars in various Cadillac models as well? Typically with the 5 speed manual.

[@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104]

​@@Bolton115Maybe. I've never seen a Cadillac with a Shortstar.

[@cruisinspecialtiesllc6104]

I've also heard that Oldsmobile was involved, but I was also told that they were not, though the Quad 4 seems to have some similarities to the Northstar. Lotus was heavily involved in the design of the LT5 in the C4 ZR-1. I wonder if Lotus had any influence on the Northstar.

[@toney-2759]

There is a stud kit available to strengthen the “two piece” block. This is likely a good idea to incorporate into your build. I look forward to seeing your progress. Good luck and keep the good content coming 👍

[@lsjess4147]

I am buying a 2006-09 xlr v soon and I love that car and the 4.4 north in it. If I’m not mistaken the 4.4 that came in it has forged part in it already.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

I've heard it has better parts. Not sure if they're forged

[@andrewnelson3733]

If you decide to part with the 4.4 keep us in mind.

[@benbrown2119]

The Northstar is NOT the first mass produced aluminum block engine GM made. It was the all aluminum Buick/Olds 215 V8 introduced for the 1961 model year in the Y-body senior compacts. After 3 years of production, GM sold the Buick version tooling to Rover. The second aluminum block engine debutted in the Chevy Vega for the 1970 model year. The third was the predecessor to the Northstar, the HT 4100 aluminum block V8 that appeared in model year 1982 Cadillac cars, and would be offered through the 1996 model year exclusively in Cadillacs, albeit with a larger displacement and improved block mounted transversly in a FWD configuration. So GM already had plenty of (mixed) experience producing aluminum engine blocks.

[@Calvin-Nelson]

Ok. My B

[@df5849]

This is correct.... My grandma had 2 of those cars in her garage

[@Bolton115]

The HT4100 became a good engine when it became the 4.5 and later 4.9 liter V8. Much like how the original small journal 2.8l V6 was garbage but they kept at it, and the 3100/3400s were better engines with fewer problems than what GM has today.

[@DaneSaysStuff]

I've always wondered about the LH2 so this will be awesome to follow! I thinking putting it into the Fairmont and getting it on the road will be the best bet to help learn about it. Then you can take that knowledge on to swapping it into something else, maybe more permanent?

[@NBC_NCO]

In the 60s, Pontiac invented a 3valve engine. GM... We can't have anything faster than a Corvette. Also, the Northstar engine originated from the indy car series.

[@michaelfuhrmann4576]

Bugatti had a limited production 3 valve engine in 1912 and a full production engine in 1924

[@NBC_NCO]

@@michaelfuhrmann4576 I didn't know that.

[@Bolton115]

'We can't have anything faster than the Corvette' is why the Cadillac 472-500 got the agricultural valvetrain that it did. 150lbs lighter than period BBCs, as well as actually being designed for 500cid, versus the 348 derived big blocks that couldn't really handle 427cid in anything but a Corvette. With about 600lbs/ft available at 2200RPM, the big Cadillac V8 would have been the hot rod of choice versus the overheating, valve sucking, bearing spinning big block Chevy.. so GM made sure it couldn't build the RPM in stock form to really show its true potential. FWIW I have a 500 Cadillac V8 in my 15,000lb RV converted school bus, and I never have to downshift at less than a 6 percent grade. Not a high RPM unit, but reliable and doesn't use oil. And I can turn the key, feather the clutch, and idle this bus out of the driveway at 600 RPM.

[@NBC_NCO]

@@Bolton115 Cool story.

[@buzzwaldron6195]

Plus in 1960's Olds had a W-43 DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...

[@brandonharris6623]

Put it in the Tallon/eclipse. That would be cool

[@danwhite3581]

I sure hope your work with the Northstar is successful. We had the 4.0L version in our Olds Aurora. When it was new is was awesome, then it blew a head gasket and it was a nightmare from then on. Supposedly it had a warped head and never held another head gasket more than about 10K miles. We have had many GM vehicles over the years and the 4L was the worst engine ever without exception. On the other hand, we have had our Buick Rainier since new, now with 230K miles with a 4200 and it has been stellar, best engine ever.

[@aidenwashburn8255]

Very excited to see this build

[@Greaseland]

I think you could make a really cool intake for that. Like stacks. Although I know it will get a turbo.

[@hoost3056]

Oh Lord, prices are about to go up😅

[@Calvin-Nelson]

This one, I might actually agree on that.

[@NatoriousGamePlay]

I remember doing research on this engine. Lots of it sounds good on paper. Just nobody gave it the time of day until now

[@buzzwaldron6195]

How about in 1960's Olds had a W-43 DOHC 4 valves 455" V8 designed and built...