Can We Put Our Faith In Pharmacists Above Doctors? | Good Morning Britain

More people will be able to access health services without needing to see a GP under a new plan in England. It asks patients to use high street pharmacies for some common prescription drugs to ease the pressure on doctors.
But can we put our faith in pharmacists above doctors?
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Broadcast on 10/05/23
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[@richardrainmaker324]

Let me give you all a first hand account as a pharmacist. Firstly, it takes 4 years at university to qualify with a pharmacy degree followed by a one year training programme and passing an exam to become a pharmacist. On top of this to become a prescribing pharmacist you need to have worked for 2 years in a clinical setting and then go back to university for 12 months to gain that qualification and so that is a 7 year process, so I hope this somewhat answers the qualifications question. Secondly, the new plans by the government sound good on paper but in practice I can tell you it only adds significantly more pressure on pharmacies which are already underfunded and overworked, trust me I’ve seen it from a GP perspective and a pharmacy perspective and can definitely say pharmacies are more overworked that a GP surgery is, just keeping up with the volume of prescriptions is difficult let alone ensuring the stock even comes in as many items are out of stock constantly. Contrary to many peoples belief it is not a matter of picking up a box from the shelf and bagging it. Without the extra man power such as an additional pharmacist on site that is available for these walk in services it becomes very difficult for the pharmacy to operate effectively and safely for patients, as always this all comes down to funding and without adequate funding this scheme will simply not enable patients to access pharmacy services in a timely fashion. The doctor raises the point about patients he consulted that thought they had a urine infection and it was kidney stones and cancer. It is highly likely although I can’t be certain this was not picked up first time round when they saw a doctor and were initially treated for a urine infection that then consequently didn’t improve which prompted further investigation. Unfortunately, this is how medicine works you work from the most to least likely cause. Thirdly, GP surgeries are privately run by the GP partners but have an NHS contract and so provide NHS services, this is the same way pharmacies run, they are privately run entities with an NHS contract. Additionally, they raised the issue of antimicrobial stewardship, i and all my colleagues have seen countless prescriptions for antibiotics that have been prescribed outside of the national and local guidelines, but trying to get through to speak to a doctor to query it is challenging particularly when patients are waiting for their antibiotics. Antimicrobial resistance doesn’t happen overnight it takes many years usually for the resistant strain to become more dominant and so this doctors point about worrying about antimicrobial resistance is slightly hypocritical when it is the overprescribing of the antibiotics by doctors that has led us to this position. I am all for community pharmacy playing a bigger role in the healthcare service but adequate funding needs to be in place for this to work, so far I am not convinced.

[@christinefiedor3518]

Great post Richard and I totally agree. I’m a retired paediatric and general registered nurse. Being paediatric trained we had medication policies and procedures drummed into us. Moving into general nursing the guidelines were comparatively lax but I never forgot my initial training. Before I retired I taught medication management to support workers working in both residual and home care. Some of the stories that came out in class were absolutely mind blowing with many ‘cocktails ‘not being reviewed regularly enough. No wonder big Pharma has obscene profits! More funding and more properly trained staffing is required as you guys are already overworked and under paid.

[@CPDCT]

I refuse to do pharmacyfirst until better funding and support is in place. You are the RP. You will be brought in front of fitness to practice if anything goes wrong on your shift. Not worth the risk.

[@daleturner2753]

Well said - using an under-resourced pharmacy workforce to plug the hole caused by governments refusal to train enough doctors, pay them a decent wage and improve their working conditions is making the situation worse. As a pharmacist I am very close to leaving the profession.

[@daenerysstormborn9107]

This private GP has a conflict with of interest because this new initiative will harm his bottom line

[@obibraxton2232]

Exactly !

[@jasereed5258]

His what?

[@TheDIABETESandHEALTHYAGINGhub]

Im a Pharmacist with over 10 years of experience. I’ve worked in BOTH retail and clinical setting. We truly care about our patients and their health and wellbeing…and I have a great relationship with many PHYSICIANS 🙏

[@DillonN]

Pharmacists should not be promoting this scheme. Not because they are incapable of providing consultations but because most likely this will result in an increase in workloads BUT NO INCREASE IN PAY! Locum rates have already dropped. I have never worked in a Pharmacy that is not busy. We're better off just sending them to the GP rather than taking on additional workload and stress

[@CPDCT]

I refuse to do pharmacyfirst until better funding and support is in place. You are the RP. You will be brought in front of fitness to practice if anything goes wrong on your shift. Not worth the risk.

[@jujutrini8412]

Who the heck goes to the Dr unless they absolutely have to with a sore throat? No one I know does. I would say it is a small minority of people that do that. Most people wait weeks and months if it’s something like that and excuse it as a cold or a virus until it really starts to worry them that it’s been going on far too long!

[@obibraxton2232]

05:35 I’m glad Suzanna pushed back on that many people cannot afford private GP’s 🤷🏾‍♂️ And Ed balls is INSANE if he thinks the NHS isn’t broken because it’s BEEN broken !

[@christinefiedor3518]

Agreed. £120 to see a gp is outrageous.

[@sandraoneill4431]

The Pharmacist is a lot more qualified than a receptionist.

[@happyruimi]

🤣🤣😂

[@thesc8842]

Disrespectful low life saying whatever

[@prp3231]

😂😂😂😂

[@SanskritiS-ev4ql]

How dumb of u to take the reference of a receptionist 😮

[@sandraoneill4431]

@@SanskritiS-ev4ql I’m not dumb I DON’T!

[@08aoc]

As usual Doctors are more concerned with losing out on the £120 consultation fee which people wouldn't need to pay if they can go to the pharmacist for free 😂

[@trelon5]

What fee are you talking about? You mean the £122 GP practices get per patient per year for UNLIMITED contact?

[@davidgalbraith694]

Sadly there not really such a thing as family doctor nowadays just a doctor that you may or may not get a phone call from if the receptionist decides it's important or not

[@rossswans]

As a pharmacist, we are more than qualified to have these conversations. It's very easy to say no to a patient. We often have just as much training in minor ailments as Drs. The audacity of ITV to bring a private Dr to talk about what ifs. It's in his benefit for the NHS to fail... Why not bring an NHS doctor?

[@jasereed5258]

Watered down healthcare 😂😂😂 what a joke your country is.

[@sachacammock7711]

you've said it yourself - minor ailments. If you are effectively triaging the community, you're going to get more than just minor ailments. Will you be able to work within the limits of your competence? Hope you're indemnified.

[@prp3231]

Are you medically trained?

[@CC-uc4gq]

Ms Govind loves pharmacy so much she re-trained as a solicitor, so I'm not sure why she has been chosen to represent the profession.

[@sabrinaandhusband7791]

We don't have a choice 😂 pharmacists are available more than GPs for sure!

[@McFlashh]

You do. The last time I visited the doctor was years ago.

[@rybo1233]

That GP is ridiculous. He is not willing for pharmacists to take on more responsibility because it will affect his business and it will mean less money in. He has admitted he works as a private clinician who asks for £120 per consultation.

[@sherimillman53]

Who will be preparing the prescriptions if they are doing appointments?

[@christinefiedor3518]

But there is a shortage of qualified pharmacists as well. They are great professionals. However they also are overworked. On top of that given the push to keep the elderly at home with care they are inundated with requests for their many medications to be dispensed in dosette (supposedly to lessen the risk of errors!)boxes that they are actually dispensed by the pharmacy assistants whose qualifications are not nearly as rigorous. . I used to teach medication management for support workers and the medications errors happening in that context is mind blowing. I think giving the already overworked pharmacy even more responsibility is putting everyone concerned on a slippery slope for disaster . Think about the potential for ligitation!

[@boobopish]

What could possibly go wrong? 🙄 5 years later………… 🙄

[@mc-mc7qr]

Its a good idea, and i reckon it will work for some pharmacy's. But my local Lloyds pharmacy is one of the worst pharmacy's there is. They are always so busy, not enough staff massive cues, so i reckon this will not work for some pharmacy's.

[@philphil4914]

Answer yes , because pharmacists work very hard and GPS dont, GPS get funded during training, like bloody dentists, then when they qualify, the bastards go private.

[@sakuragi5160]

The saddest thing is they charge you £100 to see a private doctor if not more... yet people don't complain for that...its OK to spend £100 on a doctor or dental consultation but when people go to a pharmacy and the pharmacist says £10 for amoxicillin it's too much... they expect it to be free.. this is the current problem with the UK. As a pharmacist prescriber if you charge £50 for prescribing a med it is seen as bad for a 10 min consultation.. but if a doctor charges you £100 for a 5 min phone consultation it's fine lol

[@claudiafigueiredo4979]

We sometimes have ro wait 30 min for the medication let alone consult

[@zenethara5883]

Don't know your past medical history with illness or medication before

[@craftyfox1]

So, can I sue the pharmacist for negligence if I'm misdiagnosed with negative consequences?

[@MrTelgaaly]

Just like you can sue the GP, yes.

[@Med-lv9fq]

Well when they go to pharmacy unless it is a simple cold patients are asked to go to see GP anyway

[@Starsnotdiamonds]

Private isn’t an option for some people!

[@jazzchristineart]

This doctor is really afrad of losing his passion by the people finding out they are not that important unless they get in a car accident.

[@catherinehanner284]

She says they can be seen by a pharmacist immediately. At the moment maybe, but as more people go to them for help they will soon be inundated and access to them will be limited.

[@khuzram]

No doubt it you have more pharmacies than GP surgeries so shouldn't be that much of a problem

[@tracygallagher4632]

No. Pharmacies are already overstretched and scores are closing down. A pharmacist I know, who makes a fortune as a locum just told his son not to go into this profession as there won’t be jobs open. It’s heading for an out-sourced service - on-line ordering and posted meds. I doubt Uk pharmacists will have jobs.

[@collier8931]

Perhaps the GPs should work longer.

[@rrossouw100]

The NHS doctors are seemingly like a bunch of bad car mechanics, just doing enough to get you back on the road, but not healthy again - this seems to be the cause of the majority of repeat visits. If you die it will be on someone elses watch and not their fault. Given the NHS's attitude to antibiotics, most of the problems seem to stem from under-prescribing/dosing, causing the bug to not get completely killed and now immune to that antibiotic. Then the patent has to go back for another round with incrementally stronger drugs - until nothing stronger is available. I fear pharmacists will not be able to make the call and prescribe suitable strength antibiotics from the get go.

[@rossswans]

We use local guidelines to decide antibiotics. There won't be a call to make with antibiotic choice. It's a no brainer to do this.

[@christinefiedor3518]

@@rossswans and it’s over use including using high doses that has led to superbugs! Bacteria and other pathogens are very clever little blighters who can mutate in order to survive. What happens everything overcomes the antibiotics? What do people not get about this fact? A good doctor does not prescribe antibiotics for a virus as they don’t work!

[@anthonymartyn5590]

A few years ago my wife had a mark on her face,she went to the chemist and was given cream it did nothing and got bigger and darker, she went to a different chemist was told its a wart,a few months later she was at the doctors with something else and the doctor said let me look at your face,2 weeks later at hospital and 1 week later having it cut out and 3 months of treatment, she had skin cancer so I think the doctors is best,chemist for small things.

[@HashimNasser-tq8yu]

As a pharmacist I sort of agree with the GP - so I always make sure I act within my own competence. If I feel I am out of my depth I'm referring back to the GP, simple as that. Minor ailments I can manage, anything more can be difficult.

[@Divinelove-pj4cs]

Clinical pharmacist know BNF more than anyone, that’s where all the doctors get their medicines prescribed from

[@vishalrmehta]

Are pharmacy trained to diagnose medical conditions

[@jonahkchiesa9693]

Yes

[@rybo1233]

Yes they are

[@greed9541]

no

[@daleturner2753]

As a pharmacist with a prescribing qualification, I can tell you that we are not trained to diagnose (apart from minor ailments, which is what Pharmacy First does). Diagnosis is a complicated process which should be carried out by a doctor; a prescribing pharmacist can manage the prescribing for the condition once a diagnosis has been made.

[@user-hr6rv6od3j]

Maybe I can consult my car mechanic for a medical diagnosis in that case. He is also NOT medically trained.

[@annuallyannual9444]

For me physician and pharmacist doctors are important and needy same each no more, no less, physician can never treat thier patients with out prescription of medication (drugs), and those drugs are pharmacists are made. And they know exactly what are the substances all inside those drugs and what they are for... And also without physician you can't make surgery and other relating... That's why the two are completing each other and important same each other,!

[@derrickbrains5287]

There’s more to a patient management than just drugs. FYI

[@thomasprevarin8992]

Let’s keep saying the National Health Service is the most efficient in the world, that will save the glory of our Nation

[@primemma1799]

8:33 Is she saying that this new plan will bring more investment into the pharmaceutical sector? If so, how?

[@christinefiedor3518]

Big pharma already makes obscene profits!

[@gailcusden3607]

Because they are going to be paid to provide these services by the govt. They are not doing it just because they can.

[@michaelkourtoubelides1684]

A pharmacist can refer to a&e or a specialist GP like a GP does. At least pharmacists are more available.

[@boobopish]

Until everyone starts to do it. Queues for days. 😂😂😂😂

[@drashmaria]

Absolute caution is required before implementing this. I do not think pharmacists are fully clinically experienced to recognise symptoms diagnose or recognize differential and anything red flag ...as any of this will still require GP intervention and ongoing investigations. Pharmacy sector is working fine presently no need for further changes. This appalling experimentation on the needful public is cruel. Dr M

[@rybo1233]

That is ridiculous. Pharmscists have been trained

[@PhillRobinson]

Why don't we just ban the old from seeing a GP altogether? after all we are a burden.

[@evangelix9251]

terrible idea. ive worked with so many pharmacists who have limited knowledge and care very little about their job. no single healthcare professionals advice should be taken get a wide range of advice to be the most confident

[@lislelisle5453]

I would trust my pharmacy too.

[@user-tj8jr6gg9c]

I agree with the doctor,it will not work.Our chemist is actually in the health centre where our doctors work & our chemist isn't qualified to analyse patient's illnesses.Our nearest chemist is 21miles away.

[@hearmeoutbro]

No. Both work together to benefit from our sickness.

[@becky2235]

Agree with the doctor 110%

[@cheesepuff455]

Pharmacy First=Profits for private companies👍

[@mudassirmalick6808]

How about thinking how the typical Pharmacist is supposed to do anything on top of their workload? Go and see your pharmacist Talk to your pharmacist It’s an absolute joke

[@jennifermorris833]

I had a UTI and just used the antibiotics that had been prescribed for my cat that I had left over. They worked perfectly!

[@Masa..123]

A GP see you 5 min at most ! local doctor of pharmacy spends more time with patient .. plus it takes 4 years of pre requisite then apply for pharm D then another 4 years of training plus residency !! If you specialize 2 more years ! Average 8 to 12 years to become a Pharm D ., GP do not like the competition it cuts their bottom line

[@azamjonquqonov9024]

Good

[@jasereed5258]

2 weeks to get a GP appointment... pathetic.

[@user-hr6rv6od3j]

6th richest country in the world ❤ Bliss.

[@barrygriffiths4530]

Why not import witch doctors

[@djbarbergreen3388]

Im sorry but he tories have destroyed thr G.P service this sticking plaster hasn't worked and wont work ,because some pharmacies are corrupt and offer poor service, prior to the tory cuts, you phoned and got an appointment, 15 -20m consultation , got the prescription, processed it at the chemist , all good ....can anyone claim the current system is working? A big fat No..they think we will settle for some quick fix in the hands of unqualified people because of their failure...tories out !!! Save the NHS

[@becky2235]

I'm starting to believe the NHS is beyond saving

[@mariarotaru2069]

GPs are not public servants. Most are independent contractors. They run businesses. Where do you find these uninformed guests?

[@andrewg9093]

😂😂😂😂

[@lvsky1054]

All symptoms of the body breaking down are the same, but the causes are different. Doctors figure out the causes, and Pharmacist supply the medicine.

[@derrickbrains5287]

The way I see it, they’ll soon ask to be allowed to perform surgeries. Scope creeping at its best.

[@randomsheep1165]

That's idiotic. Pharmacists are more than qualified to carry out what is being discussed in this video

[@sonnyvargeson9770]

It's not above doctors tho, it's alongside doctors

[@user-fh6ly1pz7i]

How about lrt ambulance be fire men next she does not no what she's on about

[@user-fh6ly1pz7i]

But thir not doctors or they would be one

[@mikesmith8313]

Bloody arrogant doctor stops every Pharmacist initiative dead in their tracks😂. Then he tells her off by saying she'll take on the 8am morning rush for the doctors, mocking her skill. Its becoming something of a rival profession at this stage, but Doctors see no threat, but I've already made my money.😂🎉😅

[@McFlashh]

I wouldn't advise anyone to become a doctor for the money, you won't make much in that profession.

[@mikesmith8313]

@@McFlashh This is about making my living as a Pharmacist, not a doctor, two different careers. I'm commenting on the condescending attitude the doctor has, but no matter, they are all like that. Can't wait to see the new apprentice ones😭😂

[@McFlashh]

@@mikesmith8313 Okay fair enough, yeah doctors nowadays aren’t of much help. They just want you out there as quick as possible, they work too many hours and don’t receive enough for it. And yeah there are now apprenticeships to become doctors, it’ll be a better route than the university route as they’d get paid while training. It’s funny to see the hatred between pharmacists and doctors, though😂

[@sakuragi5160]

​@McFlashh my friend did you just state you won't make much as a doctor? I'm a pharmacist myself and help run a pharmacy and let me tell you doctors make more and gps make upto 120k if not more a year with half the stress... like your local gp probs doesn't even see you if you go to them and says phone consultations only. Bro when I was a pre reg... a doctor was charging 60 per patient in the pharmacy I worked for consultations imagine he did 10 patients... but he was doing 20 patients that is £1200 in a day bro and you're saying doctors don't make enough. People go to pharmacies and complain about spending £10 for getting an antibiotic on a private prescription when they just spent 100 to see a dentist or a doctor

[@Stephen0988]

GP are medics chemists are not

[@SD-vn6fp]

What does that even mean? Do you know the training a pharmacist has? We’re not talking about just the normal pharmacy workers you know…

[@Stephen0988]

@@SD-vn6fp Arrogant enough to make my anal fissure bleed.

[@nilsalmquist802]

@@SD-vn6fp They are not qualified to give medical diagnosis. That's why we have doctors.

[@derrickbrains5287]

@@SD-vn6fpthe practice of medicine is gradually becoming cheap. You tried med sch, it didn’t work out, you went to pharm sch and now fighting to do what MDs do. How pathetic

[@SD-vn6fp]

@@derrickbrains5287 wow that’s a lot of projection! Im actually a doctor but my husband is pharmacist, we met each other at uni, from what I could tell whilst I probably had a larger breadth of knowledge to learn, his material was a lot harder to understand and more in depth, a lot more complicated chemistry and mathematics than I did on my course. The problem is doctors AND pharmacists in the NHS are not utilised in the correct way. Anyway the original comment was pharmacists aren’t medical, of course they are.

[@williamfortune755]

What a condescending comment about taking lessons from Scotland 😡

[@finianlacy8827]

Do people actually realisexwhybtuecnhs and young peoplexare in a terrible state !! Don't get a muslim woman to comment on it??

[@user-yl8de1ru9p]

I agree with the lady...she certainly NOSE what she's talking about! :P

[@McFlashh]

She must get paid a lot and can't spend a few thousand to get a nose job