What's The Best MTB For Climbing? | Hardtail vs. Full Suspension!

[@gmbn]

Were you surprised by the winner? What hardtail vs. full suspension challenge would you like us to try next? Let us know in the comments 💬 👇

[@JasonFoxLCB]

I'm surprised that Rich was the ultimate winner - making Isaac do all the climbs. 😆

[@gmbn]

@@JasonFoxLCB 😂 Not wrong!

[@dangrows_za4798]

Id love to see a trail riding comparison between the two. I just bought a hardtail. In the future I'd like to know why buying the full sus would be so much better. Also a maintenance comparison between the two

[@peterfranzjr.1190]

Isaac is a fantastic counter to Ollie. I'm glad that GMBN has someone to dig into the calculations now!!

[@jpandriesse3954]

No, wasn't surprised, maybe a little with the technical climb. I would love to see what the needed power/watts is for both bikes if you do a 75 -100 km tour with about a 1500-2000hm difference, on mixed terrain (70-80% singletrack). And a conclusion from the rider how the experience was, besides the cold hard numbers. Loved this video by the way ;)

[@williamlarry1317]

I would love to see a hardtail vs full suspension when it come to long distance rides, bikepacking, adventure riding etc.

[@lostinature]

would watch 👍

[@Radingtonbear]

Great show, loving Isaac and Rich as a presenter combo. Please don’t be afraid to nerd out and do science, especially having someone who understands and can explain it. Here’s hoping for more GCN for grown ups. There’s loads of us who don’t mind some longer form and intelligent content. Top work lads. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@bryanhall9230]

My local bike shop recommended my first real bike being a hardtail. After watching this, I'm glad they did. Been fun learning on it, that's for sure!

[@engine3724]

Surprising to see how close the results were, and also a bit surprising to hear Isaac’s comments on the differences in feel. Great to see such attention to the scientific details too! It’s not all about performance though (or even cost)- I really don’t choose my bikes based on what is faster or more efficient. I choose my bikes based on what is the most fun to ride on my favorite trails…which is why I only ride hardtails now! (When I get a bit older I’m sure I’ll have more fun on a squishy bike tho lol)

[@markmoreno7295]

Glad to hear that I am not the only one who calls them “squishy” bikes! But just to quaff those who wonder, yes I have a Ripley which in my town makes the riding pleasant due to our pot-holed infested roads. My road bike I use for longer rides on smoother rides.

[@MTBPerspective]

When I used to race marathon XC category mtb, after several seasons on a hard tail I went to full suspension. Being able to save some energy by having the bike absorb some of the abuse, and more line options makes a world of difference over longer distances and time. Even a suspension seat post can be worth a tiny bit of extra weight. YMMV

[@rufuswainwright8171]

Best video for a long while. Goes to show that decent modern Hardtails are very capable bikes 👍🏻👍🏻

[@TestTubeRabbit]

I'd like to see a comparison of some of the budget bikes that people actually learn on. Cheap new hardtails (£500-700) used bikes, parts bin bikes. Is a 2023 £600 hardtail better than a 2013 Used full squish. Just my thoughts.

[@AntonyLD]

I wasn't surprised at the overall result but really surprised how close on the rooty damp middle test. Excellent test and top job from Rich, showing yet again his expertise at delegation 🤣

[@gmbn]

Working smarter, not harder 🧠 The guys were surprised by the results too, as you can probably tell!

[@Richard_Payne_GMBN]

Adapt, improvise, overcome 😂😂😂

[@blurglide]

I think for the technical climbs, even though he was putting the same power to the pedals, his heart rate was probably higher on the hardtail because he was having to work a lot to absorb the bumps.

[@earonie]

Hardtail vs Fullඞ

[@joelibrary7359]

sussy baka

[@Milessongs]

Well done, Isaac & Rich! You took a potentially vague and multitudinous set of variables and kept it all very 'real world' in the testing. I enjoy geeking out on stats as well, but you resisted the temptation to lean too much on that stuff and kept it real! Good on ya.

Just for fun could you do a test where a person goes up a trail with a lighter bike 10-12kg with a weighted vest (10kg) and then with a heavier bike 20-25 kg (maybe even electric with no motor help) without the vest? Would be a fun comparison and video.

[@matthewaugsburger536]

Don't mind a hardtail, but I love the smoothness of a full suspension. I take more time up the fire road for the comfort of the full suspension

[@melodyfrench9576]

Yes please, more hard tail content, even better if it’s slack enduro hard tails

[@chrisstasinopoulos8895]

4:50 Poor Isaac, he gave an entire "physics lecture" and none of this made it through the editing 😂

[@trevorgdn]

@@chrisstasinopoulos8895 what the heck was he thinking 😂

[@BlackFlag94]

Great pairing of presenters... very enjoyable video for sure!

[@AbundanceRun]

My first dually arriving today! Love the comparison content

[@mariusreiter9493]

If most or your riding is smooth fire roads uphill and standing up on the descends, then a hard tail is fine. But riding bumpy bridleways and fields while sitting down I wish I had a full sus XC bike, I can’t take that saddle massaging my ass anymore 😂

[@vrwgq3q]

a full squish built for pedaling will be easier to clean more technical climbs. Its nice to stay in saddle and spin away than having to manage body position and weight transfer (kinda like dynamic yoga) on a HT. that said, the amount of watts spent on a FS always be higher and a HT will be more 'effecient'. what will leave you more tired at the end of the day will depend on the trail

[@tonymcdow7206]

If you have the budget to spend an additional $2k for the full sup bike, it should not be surprising that it outperforms the hard tail. Other than budget, though, the hard tail is better for new riders who want to fully appreciate the sport or just want to have more fun and literally feel the ground that they are riding on.

[@ArloKotai]

Hardtail for the win

[@s14tat]

It comes down to the efficiency of the hardtail. You will not losing Watts from the bombing of the suspension no matter how small how supportive it is. The hardtail has an insert in the wheels which makes it harder to rotate, it's heavier than the full suspension but still one on anything but the most technical climbs were traction is the most important factor all due to the efficiency of the drivetrain.

[@iRyan876]

If you're riding around every day and doing a variety of terrain but you're not racing or pretending like you are, HT will do the job. If you're doing marathon riding or racing for long distance, you're better of with full squish. I prefer HT for ease of maintenance pe personally.

[@Rawkus919]

Hardtail seat angles get steeper as you sink into the fork.

[@JAvellino669]

I have been looking for a video exactly like this one! The only test that was surprising was the tech climb. Unfortunately, though, that trail looks downright smooth compared to the trails in my area. I think the bigger the rocks and roots are, the more of an advantage the full sus has.

[@esan0715]

Surprising. Im new to mountain biking. Coming from road cycling, definitely feel mkre confortable with my hardtail. I guess as you suggested, learn on this, and maybe later upgrade.

[@alansmith2593]

Yeehaa mountain biking and science; two of my favourite things Love the glint in Isacs eye when he talks data 😊

[@sifromtheblockoldog1965]

great video, don't mind a bit of nerding at all. Didn't know which way it was going to go. I guess though for energy conservation putting those same watts on the sus vs the hardtail, is going to be less effort on the sus? So over a full XC race for example you stay fresher longer?

[@streetstangcobra]

I think you can get more details on difference in efficiency, maybe some tire patterns faster on hardtails and some faster on full suspension, and the difference in weight of rotating mass as on rims and tires might be double the effect of bikes weight difference

[@aaronyojimbo1753]

Suggestion: What is modern geometry and why is it here or better?

[@TiMoLoToV]

Rich his personalized Nukeproof Scout is 🔥

[@AK-Trail-Rider]

It would be interesting to test climbing a trail bike with the lockout on vs. fully open rear shock. I have found that the firm setting sort of unbalances my suspension and it feels like more energy loss as all the bumps get dumped into the fork. Could also be poor rider response…

[@hampuspersson7855]

Would have loved if you would share the riders height when you compare and show these beautiful bikes. Many here are inspired in our buying decisions and would be nice to know what sizes experienced riders choose. Rich on a large Nukeproof Scout, how tall? Thanks for yet another great video!

[@OmnieStar]

Can I get the full video of the white board??

[@sid06]

I was honestly looking forward to the rest. Isaac was explaining it interestingly.

[@OmnieStar]

@@sid06 Same!

[@SXsoft99]

if you just to recreative biking, go hardtail but if you want your ass not to suffer and have the money, get a full suspension

[@AntonyLD]

Recently my wife showed me up on her hard tail. We did 10 Under The Ben, I was on my XC Giant full sus Anthem. She did 10 minutes per lap faster despite having to trickle down many techy descents!!

[@jimdonaldson3049]

When does Isaac get a proper jersey?

[@sultanabran1]

the differences in anything are not as big as what marketing tells you. marketing is always going to make you think it's night and day. the biggest difference, is YOU. make yourself better. don't believe marketing.

[@mikegrudzinski]

Isaac geeking out sounds a bit like a MTB version of Dr Bridgewood :) better looking of course. Anyone looks better on mtb. love it.

[@Chris7uk00]

What I'm seeing is something you can't measure which is just look how much effort he is having to put into his body movement on the HT compared to the full sus, he is using less upper body muscles movement on the full sus @11:46 test 2 tech climb the canyon is alot more balanced over tree roots etc, look how much deflection on every tree root the scout has the bars moving around on the bike do that over about 10-15 miles of trails and you will have used alot more energy balancing moving the HT bike around. I have a nuke proof scout and it climbs really bad, it's a slack ht for going down and it climbs worst than a specialized pitch pro 2011 I had years ago, the seat tube angle is 73 degrees on the nukeproof scout and the head tube angle is over 66 degree when sagged it's a pain in the butt to climb. The front end wonders around on climbs due to the slack head tube angle and the rear chain stays (triangle) has no give in it (flex) and you feel everything on the scout HT transmitted threw the bikes frame, you can only do so much with your legs, the geo says it all really.

[@arnasslotkus7878]

Nice video, but we are missing hart rate. Watts are power, HR should show how hard for the body was to generate this energy. Now we can not see full picture.

[@bottle1211]

They should make a back shock that locks from a press of a button to switch from hardtail and full suspension seamlessly.

[@gmbn]

There are electronic lock-outs on some XC race bikes now that work like this 👍

[@bottle1211]

@@gmbn nice!

[@TheSamwhyte]

I’ve got: a Whyte G160s (full suss) a On One Fatty (120mm fork and 4” tyres) a Titus Fireline (130mm fork and 2.6” tyres) And going by my Strava segments, it’s the fat bike and Fireline that give me all my fastest times - uphill AND downhill. Full suss is overkill for 90% of riders and rides. Unless it’s proper mountain biking - like traversing Munros or other mountains - or you’re doing jump parks like Dyfi then there’s no need for anything other than a hardtail.

[@frienduro24]

Hmm. Then why does WC XCO all ride FS?

[@flatpedalswinmedals7274]

Seen that comin.. you have been debating this for years. Once a month atleast. Doubt the outcome is over going to change.

[@scottswahayone432]

Before I even watch this I can tell you(as an X cx racer) It depends on the type of climb and how much grip is required. Most times the lightest bike is the quickest up hill.

[@perfectzero84]

I like using my hardtail and not just because it was what I could afford :)

[@davidwolfs9505]

they should drop some fertile ground on those roots if its a main path

[@johnmccool6875]

I wonder how a light weight XC build on the hardtail would compare.

[@Skyum123]

I may put my rear sus in firm if im on tarmac og fireroad, but when i am on the singletrack/trail i dont have time for that!

[@stefanhansen5882]

What is the steepest hill with a length of 1 km an average rider can climb? Thanks!

[@deepakgurung3853]

For me hardtrail climbs easily because full suspension is more heavy in the pocket😂. Full suspension is expensive to maintain. I use Chinese 3x10 hard trail bike with ltwoo a7 gearset. I ride in hilly region of nepal

[@Psi-du2lw]

@@deepakgurung3853 Now that's using MTB in its natural habitat

[@dpomberger]

What i guess is, that on a full sus, you will be able to put down more power, without the back wheel slipping. It's just a guess - i don't own a full sus and maybe never will :D Maybe one day - a Nukeproof (Hardtail) :D

[@stephaneducroquet2617]

HT for the win ! :))))

[@jamesthomasson8276]

Was the gearing the same between the two? Even a small difference would make the same effort go faster for the bike with a gearing that puts more distance into it with each stroke, but it might feel the same to the rider.

[@eriotero8397]

hmm but that's a hardtail with about 140mm front suspension if I'm not wrong, usually Hardtails bikes are 100mm, of course pedaling efficiency wasn't as expect while climbing with that amount of travel on the hardtail.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

I was waiting to hear about the tire tread between the two bikes. I don't think I heard anything mention outside air pressure. It is--after all--where the power meets the ground. If I was riding packed trails and pavement most of the time, there's no way I'd bother with a full suspension.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@Isaac-Mundy Yeah I guess I didn't hear him specify, unless I was asleep during that part.

[@MrMorka39]

That's very good news 😄

[@BlackMan614]

150mm front fork? Try it with a 100mm. I ride a ProCal 9.6 and while I love the bike, that 100mm gives my kidney's a workout over the roots/rocks, but man can it climb. I have a cheaper 2019 XCal with a 100mm travel and it is just brutal. Beyond belief brutal.

[@ish474]

I own all the bikes because they are all great. And because I am financially irresponsible.

[@tablatom]

Fat bike hardtail with a 4.8 inch Jumbo Jim rear tyre with correct PSI is a rapid climber.

[@sersolo3112]

recently bought a top of the range full suss after years of hardtail and i hate it going to sell it soon and by a more aggressive hardtail for me full sus are slow and boring

[@williamgoodwin9667]

More power wins all the time. ❤

[@matt_acton-varian]

Isaac Mundy - The Ollie Bridgewood of GMBN

[@stujm8376]

Isaac, you're such a nerd... And I thought I was bad...🤣Cracking vid though; keep them coming. ANd Rich, did Isaac make you feel old? Is that why you didn't ride? 😬

[@METEORA_47]

27.5&29 hardtail vs mullet hardtail please.....

[@lenolenoleno]

Why would you do the final test as a steep smooth climb? Should have been a proper technical climb as each test would be progressively rougher.

[@blackjack4499]

Where is Blake? I demand more Blake! I miss him(((

[@briw4647]

Would the added weight of a locked out full suspension vs a hardtail make much difference? Not much tbh. The riders fitness would make more

[@MarioCañez-v1t]

I had a hard tail,, couldn't really ride up hills ,,back tire kept jumping and I lost my footage,, now I have a full suspension lamere carbon fiber,, much better for me,, but,, way more money 😂😂😂

[@cobykluth1878]

😂Neil taking notes best bit

[@erlendsteren9466]

I wonder if anyone have tested filling big fat tyres with helium, and felt if it does anything with the weight and how the bike rides.

[@edmuboro4582]

After about 3 years the last Keurig stopped working kzbin.infoUgkxBrV-RbF5Nk0Rlt9i15aao-YMzqzTG8Vf initially was able to unblock, however eventually we couldn't fix. That one was a replacement unit sent by the manufacturer after we had problems with our very first Keurig. This works fine (lol, at least for now) however I didn't realize the water reservoir was so much smaller than our prior unit. With 2 people having one or two cups of coffee each morning, it seems like I'm refilling it daily. Otherwise just happy to have the convenience of pod coffee vs. making a morning pot.

[@TivonSanders]

I'd bet if the guy on the full sus locked out his rear suspension, he'd be much faster on the climbs.

[@brandonfowler7758]

He did

[@alestairrenzoybanez5604]

I guess it's the hardtail that will surely win because of it's efficiency of climbing a hill without any bounc efron the rear haha😜

[@flatpedalswinmedals7274]

Plus you aren't hauling the extra weight. 👍

[@garethh2240]

@@flatpedalswinmedals7274 extra weight?

[@sersolo3112]

@@garethh2240 the rear suspension and whole linkage and arm in the rear duhh

[@garethh2240]

​@@sersolo3112, try actually watching the video. The full sus is lighter by about 500g..

[@bryanmiller5692]

@@garethh2240 most full suspension are much heavier than hardtails

[@BrianKlausen]

Hard to say, as I wasn't there, but given that the bikes weigh about the same, you used the firm setting, and even the tech climb didn't look all that tech to be honest, I am not necessarily that surprised. Also, the definition of "efficiency" is worth exploring a little. Your type of test examines the efficiency of the _bike_. I.e.: power to pedals makes what result in terms of time to the top. Nothing wrong with that - it was what you set out to. But given the conditions (weight, firm setting and not too techy) these two bikes are on very even ground. But there's another type of efficiency: rider and bike efficiency. It seems you touched upon it at the end of the video - so one thing is the power that is put to the pedals - but how much is burned in the rider to put that power into the pedal. There can easily be differences. Probably not that relevant for the sort of riding you were examining for here - ie. the casual rider - but for long epic rides it is worth considering where it is easier to stay fresh minded, etc.

[@charlesbohl360]

Hit a jump park with my hardtail rig. Rear tire hit the knuckle of the table top. No forgiveness. Bucked me over and I broke my collar bone landing on my head/shoulder. Full Sus is Safer!!

[@Kendubious]

Disagree in part with your assessment on traction on tech. If your climbing along at a good pace then I think the full suspension will have more traction. But lets be honest how long can most people who are not racers keep up a good pace climbing on tech? Most people slow down and start grinding eventually. THis is where a hardtail or lock out really shines I feel.

[@vyas555]

You guys at GMBN don't have a bike weighing scale? Disappointed with the way you guys covered weight.

[@stevenreyes3680]

Look, to be completely fair, you would have to do the test one day, one bike at a time. We would routinely take a break at the top of local trail. And my legs would turn to limp noodles half the way down. On an e-bike it’s totally different. I can go up and down with very little fatigue. So the fatigue factor makes for an a-weighted situation that you would a super computer to figure out. Bottom line: I don’t care My local trails make a FS boring, too east. A good hardtail is way more fun. I could care less if it’s slower, it feels faster and is scarier, in a good way. But that’s just me doomed to riding in my backyard park. All 600+ acres of fun. I might have to move to GB, seems there’s a lot more going on there than where the mountain bike came into being. I forgot what I was saying....

[@calebmtb]

Never thaught I would hear phonk in a GMBN video

[@TheSamwhyte]

Isaac also showing he is GMBN’s James May 😂

[@gaddobronx6740]

So I bought a full suspension bike after riding my hardtail for over 10yrs. Love my full suspension bike. But still thinking about getting a newer hardtail bike like the nukeproof scout. I'm just worried that I'll gravitate to the hardtail and my full sus will be left collecting dust. Lol

[@oiyile1971]

Re-sell if you can!😂

[@michpo1445]

So which one was better? I don't have time to sit through a whole video

[@michaelroemer6138]

This isn’t fair the Nukeproof scout is just the best bike you can buy. 😂

[@nevillepretorius8948]

I skipped past the nerd and science part, to the riding parts. 😂

[@Fr0stybee]

came for the bikes, stayed for the math.

[@Lorbo_Turbo]

maybe fullsus is faster, maybe its more comfortable, maybe its better in some special condotions... BUT ☝️ Hardtails are just sexy af 💪

[@Lorbo_Turbo]

Well spoken

[@satchmotionrc8202]

When the going gets rough. The tough get rear suspension. Lol

[@ALM-sk8zx]

Predator v hardtail

[@danielcameron1870]

My full sus feels better and faster uphill (not measured it). I think it's largely that it has 12 gears and the hardtail 10 so I can pick a better gear for the hill.

[@markdavis8430]

My £500Hardtail smokes any full sus any climb Easy day

[@307.William]

It’s curious why Isaac being as tall as he is, rides a Medium

[@leongjordan5272]

From my exp the canyon spectral runs a little larger than most

[@Andresapal]

You guys keep looping in the same thing Full susp is always for downhill and not for climbing Ht is for XC and will be always faster for climbing as you again show us. No matter the bike year, materials, weight, etc...the new thing I enjoyed this time was the HT frame with 65 Head angle, beautiful shape, I'll expecting to finally get one in my country including reasonable price👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@darkgamingff9911]

Rip i dont have a mtb😢

[@Skizm_admin]

Thumbs down for the annoying adverts.

[@flouserfehler]

This test would have made so much more sense with two XC bikes 😏

[@leecbracing]

😴nerd time

[@johnsmith-nm4qn]

The test is not relevant. you need to measure the output power of the human body, not the input power to the bike. between the output of the human body and the input to the bike you have power losses due to suspension. If you match the output human power on both the difference would be much bigger in favor of hardtail.