FIDE FINES MAGNUS $10K!!!

Hikaru reads and reflects on the FIDE report on the Magnus/Hans Cheating Scandal.
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#gmhikaru #chess #cheatinginchess

[@shanathered5910]

they should also fine Kramnik following this logic

[@darthvader5562]

This comment is just false. Magnus was found not guilty on all things except for leaving the tournament without a valid reason. Hikaru pinning this comment is sad and uninformed.

[@Atlas-Shrugs]

@@darthvader5562 so he's cleared on making unwarranted accusations but those same accusations were not a valid reason to leave a tournament?

[@AthosRac]

@@Atlas-Shrugs Read the report!

[@dacianbonta2840]

@@Atlas-Shrugs 100%

[@victorfinberg8595]

@@Atlas-Shrugs no. actually think about it.

[@chesscomsupport8689]

Magnus: I prefer not to speak. If I speak, I am in big trouble. FIDE: Even if you don't speak, you're still in trouble.

[@zym6687]

Well the fine was for something Magnus didn't do not for anything he did.

[@u.v.s.5583]

The silence of Magnus speaks for itself.

[@iipanda03]

This quote came from Magnus’s coach

[@sam2725]

His actions speak for themselves

[@xxx333mmm]

moke is cheater haha

[@rzrshrk7883]

If they ruled that Magnus was not making reckless or unfounded accusations of cheating then I don’t understand how he can be fined for withdrawing from the tournament without justification. His justification is that he believed he was competing against a cheat. Just looks like FIDE trying to assert some authority over a situation they failed to control from start to finish.

[@Darenimo]

I would imagine it's that they feel there are right and wrong ways of dealing with cheating suspicions and they feel Magnus chose the wrong way to deal with his. In the other hand, it can't be said that those suspicions are 'unfounded' when the suspicions are toward a person who is known to have cheated multiple times for a fact. Still, as far as FIDE is concerned, the correct way to deal with it would have been to submit a fair play complaint and keep playing.

[@rohan1864]

they said it: he didn't follow the procedures prescribed to deal with such cases

[@jeffwells641]

When he quit the tournaments he didn't give a reason at first. He later implied he thought Neimann might be cheating and only got more direct as time went on. It sounds like he didn't make any complaints privately, and only made his vague public accusations, which is really not a good way to go about protesting a suspected cheater.

[@BigGeorgeCostanza]

I think it's due to the fact that he didn't clarify why he was withdrawing prior to him doing it, and waited later to do so

[@hadensnodgrass3472]

10k for withdrawal is wild. There is no legal requirement to pay, but he won't be able to compete in FIDE tournaments until he does. Magnus has said many times that he doesn't like FIDE. I wonder if he will refuse to pay or appeal?

[@tomasz9429]

They fined Magnus for leaving the tournament without any valid reason. Not guilty on all other charges.

[@danieloberhoff1]

hmm no, that is only one of many pieces of evidence. I must say I understand the decision. wether the fine amount is right idk, but that there is some push backs against wildly fueling a witch hunt without solid evidence is a good thing imho

[@Jelissei]

@@danieloberhoff1 The verdict concludes: Article 11.7(f): Reckless or manifestly unfounded accusation of chess cheating: Not guilty Article 11.6(b): Disparagement of FIDE's Reputation and Interest: Not guilty Article 11.9 (f): Attempt to undermine honour: Not guilty Article 11.9(b): Withdrawing from a tournament without a reason: Guilty

[@asiamies9153]

@@danieloberhoff1 talk about talking about something you have no idea of

[@tomasz9429]

@@danieloberhoff1 are you high on something?

[@bigalexg]

This is your opinion, not the decision of FIDE - which is the topic here discussed.@@danieloberhoff1

[@dmd434]

Whether Magnus was right or not for his comments, I'm hoping Magnus boycott's Fide events. He's their biggest draw and will cost them much more than $10k by refusing to participate in their events. Fide are run by a bunch of pretentious arrogant people who have no idea how to grow the game or their business. If they didn't have their historical legacy to fall back on they would have folded long ago.

[@Fluxion11]

Fide is just butthurt because magnus didn't participate in their world championship match.

[@dacianbonta2840]

two wrongs dont make one right? two wrongs dont make one right

[@pbezunartea]

Right.. because Carlsen should be allowed to accuse without evidence. If Carlsen has the evidence, he should show it and STFU

[@cabalgandocontradicciones8303]

No. Magnus is the pretentious arrogant person who thinks he can recklessly accuse Hans of cheating because is a sore loser with a bunch of cheerleaders applauding anything he does. Nobody should be allowed to falsely accuse others of cheating and publicly damaging their reputation unless there is a strong evidence of it.

[@Fluxion11]

@cabalgandocontradicciones8303 sure. Whatever. Some people hated Fischer as well. Magnus is highly charismatic, and the chess world has done very well with him as the face of chess.

[@Earthian765]

Fide speaks for itself

[@energetiic267]

100%. Magnus and Hikaru wronged Hans.I mean they literally bullied a 20 year old for something that did not even exist.

[@coyohma8947]

@@energetiic267Dude was a prolific cheater online, they knew it, and I don’t blame them for not wanting to play the guy in any format

[@Taalanos]

@@energetiic267 your comment makes us think you didn't watch the video or read the report

[@dacianbonta2840]

@@ethanfox7837 this ain't about Moke, this is about the hosing of the other GMs in the SCup (which is the point GM Finegold made from very beginning).

[@dominiquelaurain6427]

Lawyers speak for their clients and for themselves.

[@alexlowe2054]

"We admit that we are unable to detect cheating on a single move, we admit that Hans openly lied about how often he's cheated, and he's been caught cheating in paid competitions. Multiple grand masters have suspected Hans for cheating. We agree that online and in-person chess should be treated the same when dealing with cheaters. We didn't punish Hans at all. In light of the above information, Magnus had the right to accuse Hans of cheating. But we're still going to fine Magnus, because we disagree with how he protested our lack of action." Disgusting.

[@xianweii]

This!! You said exactly everything needed to be said.

[@cenifh]

wonder why this is not pinned :)

[@Theeunsightly]

Facts! Magnus should not pay it and never play in a FIDE event again! It'll suck for the fans but this is ridiculous.

[@jaccocornelisschutter8895]

The Goat or not, his behaviour was disgusting,

[@DarkTempler1]

this needs 1000 likes. This is the worst thing FIDE has ever done in my opinion.

[@unfixablegop]

How did they arrive at that number? Take the square root of Niemann's demands?

[@Fallkaru]

Lmao nice one

[@martingrzanna2005]

wait no way 🤣

[@victorb056]

Underrated comment

[@danielnery4054]

bro 😂😂😂

[@FenceThis]

Carlsen isn’t going to pay Niemann anything, - he got a fine from FIDE for leaving a tournament without a reason

[@johndoe-mm6xu]

Hopefully we can get a chess reality show soon. I spent 3 hrs watching people make tacos slightly different. I'd certainly watch more chess drama.

[@booknikYT]

So now Magnus says i wont play amy more FIDE sanctioned tournies until the fine is dropped and see who loses more money.

[@hypercubemaster2729]

Exactly. They're nothing without him. They're trying to play chess against the best player in the world: bad move...

[@seinundzeiten]

fide is going to become broke or a joke

[@luka188]

Fide made a classic ?? move.

[@martyrk]

[24:25] FIDE's Verdict - Magnus is found guilty of violating Article 11.9B (withdrawing without a valid reason) for withdrawing from the tournament as a protest, and "failed / refused to use the proper procedural means" (file a tournament complaint form regarding Fair Play). [23:50] - Magnus is fined €10,000, and has the option to appeal the decision within 21 days. The document date is 12th December 2023.

[@iipanda03]

Thank you kind person :)

[@YashvardhanMemoryTricks]

Option to appeal within 21 days*

[@martyrk]

​@@YashvardhanMemoryTricksoh pff sorry, yeah, 21 days- thanks

[@RealLex]

Magnus just got another tax write off for 2023.

[@KinmAdm]

Well, yeah and can I play against you in chess or brawl? I would 100% beat you😎

[@theErockonian]

Do you even know what a tax write off is? People often misunderstand what is it.

[@videofudge]

​@@theErockonianenlighten us

[@jmwvirgil]

Fines are tax deductible?

[@theErockonian]

@@videofudge Just lowers his company's taxable income by $10,000 (what a write off is), at a corporate tax rate of 20% (pretty standard), he reduces his taxes by $2,000, but still has to pay the $10,000 fine, making his net loss $8,000. I just feel like people assume you're gonna get a ton of money or it's going to reduce the fine a ton, when at the end of the day, you still have to pay 80% of whatever you are writing off. It's just confusing to say "oh it's a write off", well not really, you're still paying the large majority of whatever you're writing off.

[@avonray9147]

It's honestly so ridiculous that people cannot think of the thousand possible ways to cheat. There are so many soft cheating techniques possible instead of just simply playing the top move of your favourite engine. And it's meaningless to make a claim that a statistician will be able to catch 3 moves of cheating per game, without discussing what type of cheating it works for. For example, most top GMs play the top engine move for several moves in their games. It depends on how many moves the game lasts, how much "human"/obvious it was to find the best move. Only case I think cheating for 3 moves will help if the best move is hard to find. But even more importantly as many have said, you don't need to play the top engine move at all. As a top player, you will know what move "looks human" and even knowing the "engine evaluation" for each of the possible moves to play at any given point, you can take an educated decision to play whatever you want. If you cheat, it's not like you simply win, it's like you play god, and you get to decide whether you win.

[@rmlgaming2091]

Yeah that's exactly it. The line between cheating and not cheating is totally blended. It seems like the only way to guarantee success is to lock both players naked in a lead dome lol..

[@luka188]

@@rmlgaming2091 Naked Faraday cage chess, the hardcore sport of the future xD

[@strakk]

How can FIDE be run by such an idiotic bunch. They basically just said that Magnus was right to accuse Hans of suspected cheating but he gets a fine because he protested how we did nothing. Are they trying to antagonize their biggest star? Like if magnus suddenly stops playing in FIDE tournaments they are going to lose so much money i simply don't understand this move.

[@luka188]

I'll let you in on a little secret. This is long nose tribe behavior. The owners of Fide are all long nose tribe, and it was hanukah now, it is standard procedure to steal money and try to put under their thumb the non-long nose people, especially as hans nieman is one of them, so this is in their eyes a good opportunity to capitalize on this. This kind of thing is very common, and happens all over the world whenever there is any such "holiday" from the long-nosed tribe, they will go around swindling money and trying to establish more control over the non affiliated people. What you see here is just a small manifestation of this.

[@AfonsoCL]

Are you implying the rules don't apply because he makes them money?

[@MRaosari]

@@AfonsoCL No, but you have to do our work, and then you can accuse someone, if not you can complain, but we are going to fine you... logically

[@depej5203]

Magnus should tell FIDE to get lost. The reason to resign was valid. He was playing someone he suspected of cheating. Start is own version of FIDE.

[@hypercubemaster2729]

Exactly. They're nothing without him.

[@10dandaman]

Lmao like Kasparov's successful chess association?

[@hypercubemaster2729]

​@@10dandamanNot relevant. Chess is magnitudes more popular than it was back in Kasparov's day.

[@phillipkleopas7230]

So anyone that suspect anyone of cheating must just do the same? How cool will that be.

[@jamesflames6987]

He didn't give a reason. This is an inference on your part.

[@sirchristopher7684]

I'm glad we have uncle Hikaru read this stuff to us because I surely don't have the patience to sort through it. Very Interesting.

[@susbedo9258]

😂

[@dauraktv]

In the code 11.9(b), there is a big OR between “without valid reason” and “informing the tournament arbiter”. FIDE is acting as if it is an AND

[@dauraktv]

But clearly, I’m not a lawyer and don’t understand how to read code correctly, nor understand in which way this code connects to another code

[@Elrog3]

That is a good point that crossed my mind as well. But what constitutes a valid reason is very vague. How strong does the suspicions that someone cheated need to be for it to count? I'm interested in how they came up with the 10k number. Were his unplayed games in the tournament worth that much?

[@xedwyn6244]

I understand that FIDE are trying to prevent cheating allegations ruining the game. The way to do that is to stop people cheating, not fine Magnus for leaving a tournament.

[@NoChance-oz4dd]

Yes because a player just walking and refusing to play based on a suspicion is good for chess

[@rzrshrk7883]

@@NoChance-oz4ddFIDE released a report implying that videos about anal beads were good for the game, so idk

[@DaevorTheDevoted]

@@NoChance-oz4dd Well founded suspicion.

[@NoChance-oz4dd]

@@DaevorTheDevoted He beats Magnus he must be cheating is well founded ?

[@debrascott8775]

They are not mutually exclusive.

[@Imblueeifelsomething]

Can't wait to see Hikaru's video on Kramnik's fine

[@martingrzanna2005]

Thats exactly what I was thinking😉😂

[@maxfaberg128]

he retired though

[@susbedo9258]

Kramnik's fine? Did I missed a new drama? 😅

[@joshpointoh]

What fine?

[@chesscomsupport8689]

How can FIDE fine Kramnik if Kramnik isn't playing in FIDE-rated tournaments anymore? He can just refuse to pay the fine.

[@olivialambert4124]

So FIDE know Magnus wanted to withdraw before the event. FIDE know many others are highly concerned before the event about Niemann's play. FIDE admits Niemann cheated repeatedly before the event. Magnus then feels Niemann's play questionable and drops out of the tournament. FIDE admits it has no ability to tell if Niemann cheated during the game or not. FIDE admits they would have done nothing during the event but demands Magnus must come to them and play on anyway against his will. FIDE then suggests that all of the discussion and statements by Magnus are bad before admitting they are both true and actually good for chess anyway. If anyone is harming the integrity of chess it is FIDE. By admitting Niemann cheated frequently yet issuing fines based on true statements made against Carlson (as per FIDE's own analysis) it gives the strong impression that FIDE doesn't care about cheaters. This is unfortunately an impression I have been given prior to this fine already based entirely on FIDE's own actions.

[@thorjelly]

When they analyze the accusations and say that they aren't unjustified, they are not being contradictory, they are exonerating him from one of the several possible independent conduct violations they are reviewing. Out of the four violations they were reviewing, they found him guilty of only one: withdrawing from the tournament without a valid reason. Because, surprisingly, suddenly withdrawing from a tournament with no stated reason and then only later cryptically tweeting extremely vague implications isn't considered a valid reason. Shocking, I know. Really, though, no one can claim Magnus's conduct at the time was very professional. And, yes, FIDE expects players in FIDE sanctioned events to act professionally, that is part of why the whole organization exists. Magnus did not act professionally, so he got fined. It's as simple as that.

[@jaccocornelisschutter8895]

Cheating or not, you dont withdraw

[@YashvardhanMemoryTricks]

Tldr nerd

[@Atlas-Shrugs]

Imagine magnus just says, nahhhh not paying it.

[@seinundzeiten]

yes he won't pay it

[@rev1nth64]

first 5 seconds of evry hikaru video is a gold

[@DaevorTheDevoted]

@@KvS1248 Man has constipation. Be nice.

[@xocomaox]

I love how the fine for withdrawing from the tournament for an invalid reason is 10,000EUR and the group who decides the validity of the reason is the same group who the money is paid to. Conflict of interest? I think so.

[@painless4785]

So basically Magnus saw the future in depth 64 - 'If I speak I am in trouble'.

[@CapAnson12345]

It's hilarious that FIDE thinks Magnus needs them. He can just walk away.

[@ramanahveljeyaseelan5406]

He does tho

[@darthvader3465]

It's even more hilarious that you think Magnus is the golden child who has to be pampered at every turn. He's a grown man and the greatest chess player but acts like a little baby throwing a tantrum everything something goes against him.

[@johnnyblaze9217]

@@darthvader3465bs, Magnus lost many times to weaker opponents and never went ham

[@Timmichanga361]

Interesting how FIDE speaks for itself

[@dominiquelaurain6427]

I would like FIDE speaks to itself too. The gens una sumus family would be in better shape if all that "money fines" will go to tournaments organizers for anti-cheating measures.

[@dylanmeyer6614]

19:00 Just because Ken Regan says that likelihood of being able to catch a cheat is imperfect, does not invalidate it. He is a scientist and admits flaws in his methodology.

[@chipmanly1359]

Hans's stockfish plug is set on maximum overdrive tonight.

[@FirstLast-le6io]

FIDE speaks for itself.

[@henkdachief]

chess memes are so funny bro

[@Constantuni]

and original

[@FirstLast-le6io]

@@Constantuni Comment speaks for itself

[@stevelenores5637]

This should be a warning to Kramnik as well. IMO

[@FenceThis]

how’s that ? did he leave a tournament without a reason ?

[@donshingondonvergonio2247]

He's forfieted a couple of games, probably might have done this in the future

[@Darenimo]

Magnus did not get fined for the cheating allegations though.

[@miquelcanosasanteularia1678]

Nothing to do

[@Noah-go8xc]

@@Darenimohe should’ve been fined for the cheating allegations. He ruined Han’s reputation and now people make jokes about a legitimate winner, and not the guy who lost the game and cried cheats.

[@BalDevVD]

FIDE corrupt as hell

[@afrotonder]

Crazy stuff tbh. Cant wait for Kramniks turn.

[@wafikojulio9028]

one of the members of the commission has the same name as my circuits professor and i find it troubling

[@raylopez99]

Interesting about the "three moves per game to detect cheating" and also that Magnus did not give further evidence (possibly due to the terms of the settlement, to stay silent).

[@nimayrastogi564]

New drama let's go, kramnik is jealous

[@MArk-yn4sp]

Senpai, I posted at c. 3:52 (under 2 hours ago) and my post is missing. Do you have some kind of filter in place for message length?

[@user-js5kd6wt8l]

Can we just appreciate the fact that Hikaru sent 3 videos in the last 24 hours although he's out of the tournament,what a man

[@denostar]

although? Or because?

[@NoChance-oz4dd]

You think Hikaru personally puts out the videos? Lol he has a team of editors who make and put the videos out, Hikaru just talks on stream and the editors make videos

[@sergiorenatoreyes6967]

​@@NoChance-oz4dd true. But streaming is hard work too. Id argue harder than editing. And he just finished a tournament so im sure he has a lot in his mind

[@debasishraychawdhuri]

Tournament is easy for him.

[@NoChance-oz4dd]

@@sergiorenatoreyes6967 not saying it isn't but the comment I'm replying to is implying that Hikaru is putting the videos out

[@martingrzanna2005]

Kramnik read that report very careful... and Hikaru too ;-)

[@dsbmgrey9504]

Top chess players should boycott fide tbh. They allowed a cheater enter their tournament, then fined a fair player for leaving.

[@phillipkleopas7230]

How do you know Magnus never cheated?

[@NevarKanzaki]

@@phillipkleopas7230 You are innocent or guilty. You are also suspected or unsuspected. Magnus is innocent and unsuspected as he hasn't been proven guilty and isn't being suspected of such atm. As we aren't omniscient, this puts him in the category of being as far as we are aware a fair player. Hans Niemann, on the other hand, has cheated provably. This much isn't in question, only whether he cheated in a particular instance against Magnus. He is certainly suspected as concern was shown prior. So let's check the statement. Did they allow Hans Niemann to enter the tournament? Yes. That's correct. Is he a cheater as in having cheated in the past? Yes, multiple times that he admitted to plus over a hundred more that he lied about and had to be called out on. Did they fine Magnus for leaving? Yes. That's correct. Is Magnus fair by the best humanly applicable definition? Yes, he is. So the statement is correct. Whether Hans Niemann cheated in that particular instance we'll likely never know. I imaging it will forever hang in that suspected but not provably guilty and therefore innocent area. He shouldn't be banned for this. However, I'd argue that he should be banned for all the other cheating that can be proven. I mean, I'm not sure what else I could theoretically get caught cheating in that many times without getting permabanned.

[@phillipkleopas7230]

@NevarKanzaki Where the 100 times more you are referring to here proven?

[@inplfw]

Only catching someone if they cheat 3 moves per game in a 6-9 round tournament. A superGM would only need to cheat on 1-2 pivotal moves in games that are complicated and Magnus often makes complicated games in order to get an edge. Cheating against Magnus is rewarded and undetectable I guess.

[@BB72]

What it means is that because any model requires multiple data points to be predictive or conclusive-even a simple average requires 2- that a single cheated move could not be detected no matter what model they use to detect it. The only way to prove it would be to catch him red-sphinctered... er.... handed.

[@bluegoloiv]

wonder if Fabi is going feel better about this

[@Imrandela1920]

Hikaru uploading videos in Masses 😂

[@AndrewBeveridge461]

As someone with a job where I read a lot of documents like this, I grinned a bit when Hikaru got the end, saw the guilty of violating 11.9(f), then scrolled back up to - reasonably! - section 11.9 of the document - not realizing that it was a reference to 11.9(f) of the FIDE code, not 11.9 of the document in hand. Frankly the way they numbered the paragraphs in the doc is just bad, considering that type of overlap. I would have numbered them sequentially 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.

[@zodinpuiaralte8118]

After magnus saves hikaru what happen to the tournament i never see hikaru games anymore. can anyone explain?

[@derrickgaddis275]

FIDE "ethics" 😂

[@chesscomsupport8689]

2:34 What's with the "made himself guilty of cheating " verbiage? I can understand using convoluted wording to avoid the term "cheating," but if FIDE is going to use that term anyway, what's the reason for phrasing things so awkwardly? 7:10 Why was Svidler present at the meeting? I don't believe he was a player in the tournament.

[@yaboiidave2255]

Hey Hikaru! i just wanted to thank you for making very entertaining videos! I started really growing in rating after i adopted the modern defence and Kings indian attack inspired by you! im 2234 rn! my all time high :D

[@hindrance27]

The same scenario with Kramnik, do it Hikaru.. file that complaint 😂👏🏻

[@andresrincon7240]

Guess who is not going to another FIDE event

[@lillemy5062]

Peter Svidler and Ian Nepomniachtchi being real cool players as always. Honestly one of the finest men in russia and amazing players ♥

[@TheWolfenMole]

The thumbnail is an absolute masterpiece 🤣

[@RR-qf9re]

I think it’s pretty self evident and intuitive that an algorithm wouldn’t be able to catch someone who cheat’s only on a few key moves in a game but the problem is that a 2500 GM would only need a couple critical moves from an engine to beat a 2700-2800 GM

[@joeyvigil]

Your statement is correct. But its also true that 2500s sometimes beat 2700s without cheating.

[@Elrog3]

A fine for leaving a tournament without going through the proper procedure is fine. But I'm curious to know how the amount stacks up against the costs/prizes for that particular tournament.

[@jespertuominen5387]

They have to do something to set a standard so that people don't accuse others whenever they lose to someone rated a lot lower.

[@saimon174666]

They should pay him, because this brought chess a lot of attention

[@hiddencuber2250]

Next episode probably Magnus's response against this fine. Will he pay or not?

[@plusjeremy]

It seems unfair. If you know someone is cheating a lot, how can you go into a game and play them in good faith? It could very well be that Hans wasn’t cheating in that one game, but that places an unfair burden on his opponent. You’re only allowed to be suspicious if someone is actually cheating? That’s an absurdly high standard. If Hans cheated in many online games, you’d be a fool to not feel very uneasy playing him over the board.

[@plusjeremy]

It’s possible that Magnus was just reading something into Hans’s over the board behavior. Maybe Hans was feeling relaxed and confident for perfectly legitimate reasons. But that’s exactly the problem with letting known cheaters into tournaments. I am a schoolteacher. If I see students talking surreptitiously to one another during a test I take their tests away. It doesn’t matter whether they were actually cheating or not. Because there would never be any way for me to know that. It would place too high a standard on me, the teacher, who is trying to create a fair testing environment.

[@monstergaming4467]

I think Magnus reading into Han's behavior is exactly what happened from what I've heard and I think remember since it's been awhile in the interview he couldn't really explain anything he did and explained it wrong showing he was out of it during the game. It's possible he was zoning out a lot and he was very laid back when he was pressured. So when you see something like that and are one of the top players where pretty much everyone has some kind of nerves when facing you and Nieman did not it would be very weird especially if you also get outplayed. Add in the history of cheating and you have a bad mix of a scandal

[@erickLguzman]

It’s not without a valid reason; it’s without going through the proper procedure

[@666rohith]

oh no !!.. how can magnus ever afford this fine

[@OdetoLRC]

He skipped section 10.14, which mentions that Reagan also discovered Neiman cheating in additional online games.

[@MIX_Cast]

FIDE needed a christmas present and so they asked Magnus for it.

[@hydarnus]

I thought it's over

[@dr.nigelcool3771]

Hans Niemann is an embarrassment to chess and he should have been banned for life from any and all chess competitions. Chess is run by a bunch of idiots. What FIDE doesn't understand is a guy like Magnus (perhaps in concert with other well known chess players) could flex his muscles, find some investors and take control of world chess, banishing FIDE to the dustbin of history.

[@fademusic1980]

Chess Lawsuits have to be up there with the nerdiest things ever

[@imperialleather4799]

Damn chat is so biased.

[@kaszaspeter77]

Carlsen said if he speaks, he would be in big trouble... and then he spoke.

[@kheireddineattala1281]

Props to him for being correct on this one Task Failed Successfully

[@FenceThis]

and then FIDE acquitted him from all charges, which is another way of saying Carlsen was right

[@thisperson2517]

right about what?@@FenceThis

[@juliocadavid6640]

​@@FenceThisnot that he was right, but he was in his right tbh. He just didnt do anything bad, he just did it being magnus with his repercution all over chess world. But even Naka did more of an accusation than magnus himself. Magnus was smart, he didnt speak because he wouldve been in Big trouble

[@FenceThis]

@@thisperson2517 about whatever he might’ve implied

[@MrFloridajim29]

So on one statement they say he's fined for withdrawing for not having a valid reason. But then they find him innocent of basically everything he said was accurate make it make sense

[@ahmadisaif808]

chess still speaking for itself

[@Dadbod007]

If he cheated once…should that count as a permanent ban? If you hack in Rust you get a game ban.

[@TheOne11111]

9:51 Hans cheated over 100 times. Watch the video entirely.

[@Dadbod007]

@@TheOne11111 I did. My point is if you cheated once you can’t be trusted not to cheat again. Who runs these soft handed committees? One bad apple ruins the batch.

[@imperialleather4799]

U get a game ban, but u could play other similar games like modernwarfare or dayz... Heck u cud even buy another copy of rust.

[@mobo5977]

Hikaru, it's 4 a.m. in the morning right now. I just woke up 😅

[@blackman7186]

What if magnus refeses to pay the fine?

[@mayaangelou1751]

I'm just a an elderly trial attorney and scholar who enjoys following chess. I am not a very good player but I enjoy watching the game and I have followed it since I was a child and during that time I have watched how FIDE operates. In the world of online chess playing and live broadcasting on KZbin of these wonderful games I would encourage young Grand Masters like yourself to dump FIDE like a bad ex spouse and form your own Chess Federation.

[@ramanahveljeyaseelan5406]

.... Don't do that It's gonna backfire like last time And the chess world will be in chaos for like 20 years.

[@stan0033x]

one year after the incident and you still talk about it

[@GMHikaru]

This report came out one day ago -- the editor

[@CRaDeRa]

Payment within 30 days is no problem, they can just deduct it from the 120kUSD they`ll have to pay Magnus after the World Rapid and Blitz :D

[@dylanmeyer6614]

It was not a FIDE event?

[@kaidoChess]

FIDE thinks they are the police 😂🙄😂

[@ashrobinson4604]

A lot of weight is given to Regan’s analysis, but his methodology misses a lot of cheating that can affect the outcome of games: examples, one or two moves at critical moments! Surely a GM should be able to explain thinking behind moves made during games, not just “the chess speaks for itself.” Hikaru continuously shares his thinking during streaming online games: one more reason why Kramnik should withdraw his “interesting” comment about Hikaru’s chess results.

[@humphreybumblecuck5151]

If you only cheat for 1 or 2 moves. How would you know which moves to cheat on? Alot of times engine evaluates a half dozen moves as equal in a dry complicated position. A few cheaty moves made during moments like that probably don’t even effect the outcome. And if not then when? How do you know there is a winning move you can’t see without cheating in the first place? Or maybe you only cheat a couple times when you’re losing to find a move or 2 to save yourself. But that doesn’t much increase your wins so much as reduce your losses. The only way to cheat effectively is to cheat constantly. 1-2 moves at random are nearly inconsequential. And would be impossible to notice. It would also be pointless for any cheater, because it isn’t actually a winning strategy. You assume they know when to cheat, without cheating, where they cheat for 2 moves and somehow it all works out perfectly. If you only cheated in certain positions (complicated or losing positions) that would be super noticeable if your play always got better at those moments. You act like it would be genius undetectable. And anyone just cheating for 1-2 moves at complete random would hardly have any advantage at all

[@ashrobinson4604]

@@humphreybumblecuck5151 An advantage is an advantage. By your own analysis, you say the cheater would “reduce losses.” I would agree that some cheaters would be better at it than others.

[@YashvardhanMemoryTricks]

​@@humphreybumblecuck5151try using some common sense and logic. Or learn how chess works first.

[@balettpatkany]

I hate it when I make myself guilty of cheating

[@Seaileanu]

Oh bead boy, what have you done?

[@obmarte3803]

I can already see Kramniks coming.

[@keithwald5349]

For further information, you can contact the IP directly using the IP address.

[@CoffeeChessRepeat]

isn't it weird how the guys who turn out to be guilty of cheating tend to be very angry/aggressive in their defense i.e. Lance Armstrong, the Astros, Luciano Moggi, Cesare Maestri etc... Guys who tend to be innocent laugh it off i.e. Hikaru. Hans may not be guilty, but he does fall into the aggressive category.

[@MonicaHolly143]

The fines speaks for themselves

[@hypercubemaster2729]

And so will FIDE's collapse when Magnus leaves it.

[@aaarrrggghhh]

@@hypercubemaster2729 xD, do you have a human brain?

[@ExtravagentGentleman]

I got interested in chess, and by consequence, found this channel after the Hans cheating scandal became public. I have since become a Hikaru addict and am now working my way through my second speed run video by video. I, for one, am glad this drama all happened. I do not play chess.

[@imeprezime1285]

Ugh, that's 10 Titled Tuesdays.

[@Philiopantheon82]

If I speak, I am in trouble.

[@ConsciousExpression]

Wonder what might happen if Magnus told them to go stuff themselves.

[@Soulmodulation]

I get Carlson's protest, its truly absurd neimann is not banned by now. However, I feel like FIDE is trying to play the long game, and catch Niemann in the act during a large tournament, so he can't run around crying foul. Its a pretty dumb plan, tbh. Niemann's cheating and unrepentant attitude speak for itself; FIDE just need to grow a pair and ban him.

[@bt82]

It’s a good day for cheaters. Anyone thinking of accusing a cheater better have rock solid evidence, except fide already admitted they’re powerless to prove cheating if it’s kept to a couple of moves per game.

[@ewanjamie1171]

That happens in real life aswell. You cant just accuse somebody of something without proof. If i accuse you of something surely i should have proof that you actually did it.

[@potatoonastick2239]

I'd say its more that you can say you *think* someone is cheating, as long as you don't claim that they actually are @@ewanjamie1171

[@thebcwonder4850]

@@ewanjamie1171 if someone with a history of DUIs were to start driving erratically, wouldn’t you accuse them of driving while drunk?

[@dradeel]

Maybe. Maybe not. The reason why he was found guilty "of withdrawing from the tournament without a valid reason" seems to specifically be that he didn't announce his withdrawal through proper formal protocols. Had he done so and provided a formal accusation of cheating based on his rationale and suspicions at the time, it sounds like he would have been found not guilty of this article as well and not been issued a fine, seeing as he was separately found not guilty of unfounded accusations of cheating. In other words, it's definitely possible to interpret this report as siding with Magnus in that his accusations and suspicions against Niemann were not unfounded, at least not with what he knew at the time, despite him being fined. 🤔 Or?

[@ewanjamie1171]

@@thebcwonder4850 people accuse each other of things all the time. The good thing is this does not make the person guilty. You have to have good solid proof that they actually did the thing your accusing them of.

[@robocopvn]

Justified! Magnus has nothing to back his up!!

[@ixinor]

Does he even need to pay the fine? 😂😂😂

[@luka188]

Of course he doesn't. Fide isn't the law, they can ask whatever they want, but it is no different than me yelling at my neighbor that they'll have to pay me 10K or else. In other words, it is meaningless. However, since they run their own competitions, they could indeed refuse to let Magnus play in their events if he doesn't want to bend over for them and let fida take his lunch money, however, that would cost fide much more than a measly 10k, so they'll quickly realize their blunder after they sober up a little (They are still high on hanuka over there).

[@CristichiEX]

I actually used to play chess when I was younger and retook it because of my interest in the cheating accusations against Hans

[@godfreyofbouillon966]

I wonder if Kramnik gets fined as well

[@maxevans2852]

Solar powered buzzer in his boot!

[@tonysu8860]

Probably not unexpected. Main thing to consider is that the event in question happened on American soil so likely is legally subject to the process of the American justice system and typically (might be different elsewhere) evidence and judgement is likely limited to the incident and should not involve prior acts proven or not. In other words, if Hans Niemann is accused of cheating in this one event, any prior acts online or OTB might only be considered tangentially characterizing the accused but are not relevant to the specific act of cheating in this one event. The other issue is that the St Louis Chess Club is probably the most recorded chess playing venue anywhere. The broadcasts give me the impression that from the moment the players enter the building to the playing and until they exit every space is recorded. Every player's actions and every nuance of their behavior is recorded even in lounge areas, skittle areas and the kitchen. If Hans was somehow cheating, Carlsen had plenty of opportunities to try to identify some kind of suspicious behavior but the allegation was simply that Niemann wasn't playing to strength expectations (every other allegation including beads was outside speculation). I think that the world chess playing community agrees that there should be a certain level of personal integrity among the players but also that accusations of cheating requires a high bar of proof that Carlsen obviously never came close to providing. And until someone scientifically understands the human mind, all that statistical stuff should never be used as certain proof although can be used to raise a level of suspicion that can lead to additional investigation. Every chess player knows that the process of improvement is irregular and can at time involves of extraordinary play so no single game is necessarily an indicator of a player's overall level of skill.

[@abortedlord]

Well, they're saying that people showing up and going, "Hey, how is it even POSSIBLE to cheat here?" is actually generating interest in Chess as a whole where there may have been none.

[@nonchablunt]

Making an insinuation is not the same as claiming someone cheated. The former should be fair game.

[@davidbarnett8617]

Sadly, cheating in chess will never be completely eliminated. Unless caught in the act as Niemann wasn't, cheating is virtually impossible to prove. But while it is a major issue at the highest level, cheating has virtually ruined chess at your typical open swiss tournament level. Players constantly get up, walk around, got to the bathroom, go outside. It is impossible not to at least wonder if your opponent is getting outside help. And just that thought alone is distracting and affects play on the board. Of course, some people actually do cheat. The days of free and fair chess tournaments for the average competitive weekend player are dead.

[@TheXLAXLimpLungs]

How FIDE can think they have a right to force someone to play is beyond me.

[@jamesflames6987]

They don't think that. Mystery solved.

[@TheXLAXLimpLungs]

@@jamesflames6987 yet they will fine someone for leaving in the middle of a tournament? Sounds like they think they have a right to force someone.

[@ramanahveljeyaseelan5406]

​@@TheXLAXLimpLungsmagnus left the tournament cause he was scared of losing to someone who he assumed was cheating. Even tho in reality he was a just making accuses. Ans Neiman never cheated otb.

[@TheXLAXLimpLungs]

@@ramanahveljeyaseelan5406 and my point is, no matter the reason, someone should be allowed to not play in a tournament regardless of their reason. How FIDE can think they have a right to force someone to play is beyond me.

[@jamesflames6987]

@@TheXLAXLimpLungs He agreed to play in the tournament. He agreed to give a reason if he left. He broke the agreement. If you work in an office, your boss is not forcing you to work. But you agreed not to leave in the middle of the work day without giving any reason.