Gnosticism and the Quran: The Heretical Influence Denying Christ’s Crucifixion

[@AskForTruth]

That is a great find. Very interesting analysis.

[@knkn5049]

Wow, i m actually impressed that you found such a close text. I was able only to find "Coptic Apocalypse of Peter" but you nailed it. That's injil we are looking for. Have you found any prophecy about future prophet?

[@truthwatchers3405]

The Bible speaks a lot about a prophet in the end times. See Matthew 24:11, 24; and Revelation 13:11-15; 16:13; 19:20; 20:10.

[@knkn5049]

@truthwatchers3405 you misunderstood me, i m asking about gnostic book you were quoting. If it so closely matches Quran in this part, maybe it has another similarities. And one of the hottest questions is prophecy about new Prophet. But maybe there are some else.

[@StudentDad-mc3pu]

Jesus was almost certainly crucified - the rest of the story is extremely suspect.

[@al-kimiya6962]

Gnostics are right about the OT God, it's an evil archon.

[@nodiet8660]

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuh

[@dmenace9288]

Waraqah Ibn Nawfal is an old Christian Arabic Ascetic that is related to Kadijah wife of Muhammad. And at that time gnostics teachings were everywhere. No doubt, Muhammad had much interactions with them.. hence the gnostic interpretations in the Quran and the little pieces of things about Jesus all in a hodgepodge.

[@al-kimiya6962]

@@dmenace9288 whatever the case, the OT God is an evil demon, Marcion was right about him.

[@dmenace9288]

⁠@@al-kimiya6962The OT (YHWH) was only perfectly revealed on the NT. I wouldn’t say that He is a demon. But Islam is definitely cultic, hence demonic.

[@al-kimiya6962]

@@dmenace9288 the OT God feeds off blood and genocide, he's a demonic egregore, this is why he wanted his only son to be sacrificed and you people to feed off his blood and flesh, it's jewish blood magic mania.

[@knkn5049]

But i got dissapointed by second half of arguments for crumsifinction. It is very weak argument, almost a straw man. Quran doesn't claim that there were no crumsifinction. It claims that people saw crumsifinction of someone who looked like Jesus. So what you expect to read in those historical accounts? "It seemed to me that i saw Jesus on the cross, but it was an illusion i wasn't able to notice" - such eyewitness testimonies do you expect? Don't be ridiculous. It is unfalsifiable claim, and you are lowering your credibility by such nonsensical refutations as "some atheist said..."

[@andrewmarkmusic]

What you are attempting to do here is called rational deconstruction or assessment. But your presuppositions refute the endeavour because your presuppositions are in themselves irrational. All this does is make you a proficient contortionist. If Jesus was a rabbi it would be impossible for him to teach the Trinity and furthermore his teachings would have nothing to say to Gentiles other than that they are the dogs.

[@truthwatchers3405]

You obviously havent read anything Jesus taught. He did call Gentiles dogs, at least once (Matthew 15:21-28). Also, He did teach the Trinity, almost getting stoned by the Jews for doing so (John 10:30-33).

[@andrewmarkmusic]

@@truthwatchers3405 Oh yeah, I'm 65 and had read the Bible cover many times since I was 25. You'll deny there are about 33,000 schisms all based on differing hermeneutics within Christendom today. If Jesus was a Rabbi there is zero chance he taught the Trinity. It's you who has no clue of even the basics of Judaism.

[@andrewmarkmusic]

@@truthwatchers3405 There are bigger problems along this specific point. One cannot escape the fact that God lied to the Jews for over 2000 years concerning a point of major importance. It was either a lie of omission to Moses or intentional over 3500 years and counting. I could teach my child the difference between3 and 1 in under a minute. The Trinity is incoherent from this perspective. And I say all this as a Docetist Trinitarian. So I'm no fan of Judaism but reason and logic demands coherence and not BS...