Goat Format Worlds Results Were... Depressing

No one wanted Goat Format Worlds to end up this way: Chaos, Chaos, and more Chaos.
See the top decks here: www.goatformat...

[@Stefoserpent]

Its sad to see Warriors failing to keep turbo in check, it was supposed to be a counter deck

[@imalwaysbluffing]

It was suppose to bring balance to the meta, not join them by becoming pile

[@Prodigial]

The sad thing is that the supposed "counter" to Chaos probably is about even in the vs and worse vs every other deck in the format. Hell, you can make an argument that Warriors has a slight LOSING matchup vs Chaos Turbo. The deck is just oppressive and I don't see that really changing anytime soon.

[@Josephhof]

Thoughts on the technical level of goat that was played??

[@jorgemillar1]

The only problem I see with Chaos becoming tier 0 is that the Goat Control mirror is much more fun and skillful than the Chaos mirror

[@jenkins464]

When chaos turbo started getting popular many were disappointed because they wanted goat format to be about goat mirror matches. I agree that standard chaos is over-represented while other strategies could also perform well, I also get that uncanny feeling when seeing top lists that all look the same. But then again deck variety is one component of what can make a format good, and Goat has many technical merits that make dedicated players keep coming back to it the way it is, and even if the growth for goat format has been slower compared to other ways of playing the game, new players are coming in all the time. I feel that it's ok to feel bored or fatigued at times, I just wish people could take a break from goat without also having to denounce it as obsolete or something like that... There's also the possibility of trying out adjacent historical formats that offer a similar style of play, or experiment with format revisions as accessories to the main Goat format in order to keep the experience fresh.

[@bobbybero7452]

Watch Edison format be solved within the next 2 years

[@adambraun1990]

I am one of these new GOAT players (well I’ve been playing Yu-Gi-Oh since 2002, but quit going to locals in 2012. Since then I’ve been basically having GOAT format duels with friends, though we’d also do anime character deck duels and allow the Egyptian Gods in those and they’re not GOAT). I didn’t even realize GOAT was an actual format people were playing competitively until fairly recently and I’m actually excited to jump back in and compete again (outside of playing with friends that is).

[@raustzeal4212]

I don't really agree with the issues posed here. I have always seen Goat format as this hyper competitive version of playing Yugioh where your skill is the deciding factor as much as it can be. Having a best deck is actually a good thing for that because there is less match up dependency. If your hypothetical player wanted to see lots of different decks in action, then edison is clearly the superior format for them. Tbh if we don't know the weaknesses of chaos turbo by now, we never will. In my opinion, it is up to the players and deck builders to decipher this anyway, that is how they will become top level players. edit: as soon as you ban cards, you are no longer playing Goat format you are playing a custom format.

[@GoatDuels]

Of course there will always be a best deck. The question is whether or not the best deck(s) leads to enjoyable gameplay that the community approves of. That, of course, is not a question that I can answer.

[@raustzeal4212]

@@GoatDuels I made a video that attempted to answer that talking about library ftk and it's rise in popularity. I got some backlash from it. Ultimately I don't think it's a question worth answering, exarion is likely the only ban that will ever be accepted by the wider community. When you play goat format there are just some things that have to be accepted.

[@graboidfan31]

Man, just play chess if you only want everyone to play the same exact 40 card deck.

[@raustzeal4212]

@@graboidfan31 I don't play goat format that's for sure. Even when I was in the community I rarely played. It isn't about what I want? It's that there is a best deck and people play the best deck cause they want to win? I don't really understand what you are trying to get at

[@rapalborde5211]

@@raustzeal4212where is that video i would like to watch it sounds interesting

[@quexxlp2451]

Make Earth Aggro great again!

[@OhmsAtHome]

Looking at Shifty’s deck, I think Earth aggro one of the scariest decks to go against.

[@Prodigial]

This tourney and these results come at a very unfortunate time in that Edison just got released on DB ladder. For people who are so tired of Chaos Turbo matches multiple times in a row on ladder, Edison (or other formats in general) looks pretty appealing. This tourney only further drives Chaos fatigue. The best thing about retro formats is people get to discover new strats and decks and "solve" previous best decks, but the downside is that, with no new cards or changes to banlist, the format gets more and more streamlined into a singular "best deck". That deck is Chaos Turbo.

[@bobbybero7452]

😂🤣 I knew Chaos turbo was tier 0.5 in 2017. Every one laughed at me but I left my deck unchanged and beat most of my opponents throughout the years without altering my deck. That’s what I love about this format, not having to change anything in my deck. Guess the cat’s out of the bag for Chaos Turbo 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@AB-ds3zl]

Do u have a list?

[@guaritalksaboutcards]

I think you're identifying yourself a bit too much with the format like Linux users do with Linux. Goat Format is a nice format but it has flaws (one of them is the limited cardpool) and I don't think it's healthy to obsess over them thinking on how to fix them to make Goat "great again". I don't think that a different banned list to weaken Chaos Turbo will make the format more diverse. The main problem is the small cardpool which limit diversity. A solution would be doing a custom format (like newgioh) but it's too much time consuming. Also that wouldn't be Goat Format anymore. Sometimes it's just time to move on , a thing that's difficult to do if let part of your identity belong to a Yu-Gi-Oh Format.

[@pauloneill9647]

Does this also mean more rogue strat vids to beat chaos turbo? 👀

[@MKxJUMP]

Honestly, the quality of both the Goat player base and tournament structure goes to show it is still a work in progress. We have a ways to go still to make this popular and structure well enough to see a competion level where we can really find what is and who is the best.

[@rapalborde5211]

yeah even the weekly tournament host by the official discord are so badly organized: admins take almost an hour to start the tournament and tend to mess up the results a lot. In a double elimination tournament my friend got disqualified on his first lose for no reason instead of being moved to the losers bracket.

[@Tyler-Wiley]

Stop trying to make GOAT format happen, it's not going to happen. If it was a good format, YCS's would be having ultimate time wizard formats for GOAT format, instead, they are always hosting Edison formats. Face it, GOAT is a disaster gone wrong and that Edison is likely to stick for the foreseeable future.

[@catfriendking]

@@Tyler-Wiley GOAT is much more enjoyable to me personally. Edison has more diversity and is good, but is even more high variance and floodgate reliant than GOAT. For me, I would make a Halo comparison. GOAT is more like Halo 2 while Edison is the more popular but less good Halo 3. Modern would be more like Halo 5 than infinite and I mean that as a compliment to modern honestly which might be too kind.

[@dfag2311]

The problem with chaos turbo is that it exacerbates the main problem of goat, which is the oppressive nature of going first. Most goat players get frustrated when there opponent +2 first turn and then dustshoots they're only play, only to keep playing so they can do it to someone else in the next game. ACP is a better player than me, and I agree what he says about most goat matches being 50-50. So if we played the same deck 100 times, he might win 55 to my 45. But if I got to go first every game, I would probably win ~75 games or so myself. When all is said and done, you can account for all the "techs" and "meta calls" but I would rather play the worst performing deck in this worlds tournament if it meant I got to go first every time. What ACP said about effortless wins is true, and this problem is not going away anytime soon. I have some ideas to change old formats for the better, but it would take time to implement.

[@LukasSkys]

(Guy who forgets Cat came in 2nd in world's last year precisely because it can play going second and otk with just 4 card starting hand)

[@markcutrufello641]

My sons and I started playing goat format again during Covid. We decided to ban BLS and delinquent duo, and now we about seven or eight decks that can win on any given day

[@Waulfey]

Same, Ive built every meta decks without BLS and Duo to play with my GF and its much more balanced that way. Opens up playability to decks like Water, Light, zombies that suffer greatly from BLS making it a requirement to run light/dark monsters.

[@lordofthered1257]

Then its not goat anymore. Its diet goat. I guess I am in the minority when I say I want to play the format as it was not as I wish it was.

[@Waulfey]

Most people are getting into goat when looking for a DuelMonster experience cause its the most popular format from that era. That doesnt mean its an optimal experience for the players. Dont get me wrong, I play with BLS/Duo at locals, but that Chaos Meta is getting stale. Everyone plays basically the same Chaos engine with slight differences. Thats the main criticism ive heard from people leaving locals and its not healthy long term. What people really want is a diverse and balanced game using the DM era cards, and I highly doubt this can be achieved without a "man-made" format.

[@OhmsAtHome]

I kind of wish there was a format before chaos monsters. I remember playing this game as a kid and chaos changed the entire game. Before then, banishing cards meant you were never getting them back. Sure, you would still have duo to deal with, but you would still have lot of greed as well. TD without chaos makes it a lot weaker as well. It wouldn’t be a “diet goat” format. It would be a different format altogether and those who want to play Goat still could. I want there to be a format for each generation of YGO. That would make the barrier to entry a lot easier to overcome

[@lordofthered1257]

@@OhmsAtHome I have amazing news. There are three or so formats I can think of off the top of my head. Yugi Kiaba which uses the fist banlist. Critter format which uses sets up to Metal Raiders. And hand control format and one of my favorites the 2003 worlds format.

[@finnsteur5639]

Make a video about tkgriffith handling of marcuslol vs kcfilosofos situation please. SHould be interresting.

[@michaelknasel1641]

I just started playing goat and had no idea chaos was so all encompassing. i just thought it sounded fun when i built it.

[@ramihrduswi1646]

5:07 Yeah, this is what it really comes down to. When I first discovered goat format I was excited to try out a legacy format that seemed extremely diverse, and then 3 months I realized everyone on ranked and EDOPro just parrots the tournament topping chaos decks. I'll still defend the format conceptually, but holy hell the competitive scene is yawn-inducing.

[@beitno3029]

A mathmatician would want to see the numbers, I agree! Awesome to hear you are making a new sim

[@bocasuja22]

what about morphing jar #2 to punish those heave spell and traps counts,those spyis increasing amout of monsters on board and those chaos monsters that would be milled to the grave??

[@bocasuja22]

morphing jar #2 is great for events were judges will be present also

[@jfree672]

this is exactly what I argued with on your "not a tier 0 format" video. yes people play a lot of decks when the stakes are lower especially when it's online so you have access to every card. but here we have worlds and 19/32 played turbo.

[@GoatDuels]

If half of the meta plays the same deck, is that deck tier 0? Maybe, but not necessarily. I think people throw around the word "tier 0" too lightly. It's pretty rare that you have a true tier 0 format in Yugioh.

[@frix8826]

Data about how an archetype deals with another archetype doesn't really help because what makes the most difference are the support cards you choose to play. For example: I can build a turbo deck with 3 sakus and I would have a good percentage of wins against warrior but I could also build it with 3 shoots and mind con and have a terrible match up against warrior. How are you getting the 2 datas together? You can get data about how single cards affect the mup but that won't tell you that the archetype itself is good or bad against that deck P. S. If we really want to modify the format to make it healthier you don't need to make a new ban list, just make it so that the player going first draws 1 less card like in current yugioh and the first turn trinities become way less strong

[@marlgames]

capture that data and train a goat format AI that tests decks against itself millions of times to determine the real best!

[@Sayitsso]

How do you feel about them ruling that if your opponent flip summons Cyber Jar and you play TT in response that Jar fails to resolve?

[@AB-ds3zl]

They changed the ruling its effect will go through now

[@Sayitsso]

@@AB-ds3zl where did they announce this and why?

[@LukasSkys]

goat with creature swaps kycoo etc are a good match up vs turbo, just anything with scapegoat gets wrecked too hard vs burn. Warrior probably was underrepresented/played precisely because of the judgements in the 50 minute timed scenario.

[@GoatDuels]

Yes, it's certainly possible that the results that we saw are largely a product of Solemn Judgment being worse than normal. That's a good point.

[@jt54]

Whether CT is the best or not (probably so, and data to prove / disprove it would be welcome indeed) is almost secondary at this point. More importantly, the subject is its over prevalence turning off existing and new players, leading to a stall in the player base growth (maybe even a reduction). I have personaly felt like this (and moved to Edison since I can find "actual" variety in it) and witnessed it IRL in 2 diferent locals, where people have largely moved away from it.

[@GoatDuels]

Very insightful. I feel the same way.

[@beitno3029]

Someone should have played Lava golem

[@undzad]

turbo is the best deck plain and simple. anything else is denial. other decks can win but the best is turbo. there’s a reason that players playing for this amount of money played that deck is because they think they have the highest chance to win with it and why would they think that? cause it’s the best

[@ScoobyDoober]

This is exactly how I felt coming back to yugioh. All I saw were the same decks every single match up. Chaos turbo and goat control. Same decks over and over. At one point, I’m like bruh how is this fun.

[@MKxJUMP]

To get the data, we just need more tournaments where people enter lists and every matchup is recorded. And no one is going to be upset about more tournaments.

[@francescolofaro8258]

It's a retro format. Obviously it will come the moment when the "best deck" will show up. Changing the banlist changes the format, so it would not be goat format anymore.

[@bobbybero7452]

I have fun goat decks to play. Goats is a fun format

[@MrMarvelMike]

Sometimes it's time for a format to evolve.

[@___jordi7544]

I don't understand English very well. How long were the rounds of the duels? 45min odr 15min?

[@Railmydad]

45

[@justinkubat]

How do you feel about Angel Chaos in 2023?

[@GoatDuels]

Is it the best deck? No, but if you're a good player, you can win with it.

[@OfficialPlasticHands]

Analytics kill parity in games. It’s why football has become a passing league and the NBA is now a glorified 3pt contest. You can always adjust the rules but that becomes a snake eating it’s own tail, no matter how marginal if people know the objectively best strategy the majority will choose it in a competitive environment, better off not knowing imo.

[@chrissimmons1779]

Did you hear about the massive scandal that happened going into top 8?

[@AB-ds3zl]

No what is it?

[@manukid91]

Saw people make some pretty nooby mistakes

[@catfriendking]

Are you aware that the guy who won Yugioh Worlds in Japan this year with Dragon Link went 4-3 in swiss?

[@AB-ds3zl]

Could you explain how he still won? Sounds a bit off to someone who has no idea how this works😅

[@Owl-yc2yu]

BLS should probably be banned. Hell, run a few tournaments with experimental banlists. Something will stick within a year. We could even do rotating banlists for tournaments. It's a static format so why not? Un/restricted goat tournaments could be fun.

[@ChaosLv99]

To me looks like you simply hate Chaos turbo. Limit Chaos Sorcerer? Nice you just killed Reasoning Gate lol. You don’t like this year meta? Find a new anti-meta deck since you are so sure there are better deck out there. Or simply play another format or invent a new one that fits your taste. And maybe come back when the world championships final is burn vs burn again like it was in 2021

[@beautyorpower5288]

all facts. anything can win if youre willing to get lucky. theres nothing about turbo that makes it unbeatable you just have to be brave enough to run some counters

[@justinmadrid8712]

I am fine with Chaos Turbo being prominent. It's better than Panda Burn or degenerate FTKs.

[@troybrockmorales1444]

This video felt like a guy complaining about goat format. This is the peak of goat format. Players have been playing this format for years and at the highest level of competition, this is what they consider to be the best.

[@lucaguarino-e5v]

expecting goat format to be diverse was delusional imho. idk what people are expecting from goat format. it's an ok format but has many flaws

[@nixthenamed]

I guess i'm biased because I think turbo is way more fun than warriors or goats, but is 19/32 really too much? Feels like about what you'd expect for such a small format

[@diegoleon5165]

I think you are trying to deny the objective facts by over-analyzing to force the premise of "the format is not the problem, it's your perception". Objectively Chaos turbo is the best deck in the goat format, to say otherwise is simply begging the data and being so arrogant to believe that your opinion is above unquestionable statistics.

[@GoatDuels]

Saying "I don't know" is the opposite of arrogance. Who wouldn't want to see the data? It allows us to draw more informed conclusions than, "Everyone is using Chaos; therefore, it must be the best."

[@diegoleon5165]

@@GoatDuels Let's see, two things. 1- The general premise of the whole video is "people's perception of chaos turbo (perception based on the data) is wrong and in reality it is because the chaos deck is very used and that is why it wins more duels but if they used something else chaos decks would not win so much" based only on your opinion, you may say "I don't know" and that premise is what I attack and call "arrogant", especially when you value YOUR opinion more than the objective data that tells us unequivocally that Chaos turbo is the best deck, whether we like it or not. 2- I don't know if the translator I use sent my message wrong or translated yours wrong, but at what point did I say that it was not correct to see the data? If that is precisely what I defend, of course the data allow us to see the picture better and reduce the biases that cloud our judgment, and it is precisely because your conclusion is NOT according to the data that I criticize you, if the data tell us that chaos turbo is the most played deck and at the same time the most winning, then it is logical to conclude that indeed, the chaos turbo deck is the best deck of the format, any other conclusion implies denying or misrepresenting the data.

[@GoatDuels]

I'm allowed to have an opinion. If I entered a tournament tomorrow, I would not use Chaos Turbo, because I believe there are better decks out there. That's not arrogance; it's literally just an opinion lol. I never said the perception of Chaos Turbo players was wrong. In fact, in the video I said that it might be correct!

[@___jordi7544]

I dont understand the english good. How long was the round per duell? 45min or 15min?

[@GoatDuels]

50 minutes per match

[@bocasuja22]

makes zero sense that a deck so slow is better then cyber stein decks

[@bobbybero7452]

The real game was not beating your opponent but solving the format before everybody else. We are at that point so now we can enjoy mirror matches at side events. I know I will!

[@rapalborde5211]

Library ftk is the alternative i have 82% wr in 76 matches but is super toxic deck lmao

[@lucaguarino-e5v]

it literally reached 2nd place at gci with 151 players

[@rapalborde5211]

letsss goooooo@@lucaguarino-e5v

[@AB-ds3zl]

You have a deck list?

[@stefankeeney8462]

Wow so many hate comments for a guy so committed to making a new simulator for the game… I totally understand your point. If a deck is successful it will see more popularity, and if it is more popular more people will use it, and then due to law of averages it just brings more wins and tournament wins. I mean heck, the fact that the 2nd place deck was earth Aggro just proves that it’s not a tier 0 or whatever meta

[@justinmadrid8712]

I would guess that Earth Aggro did well because it main decked 3 Trap Dusthoots, which is game winning against Chaos Turbo.

[@Prodigial]

Dustshoot is basically standard in every single deck. Chaos Turbo is known as the most played deck and so people maindeck it now instead of side deck. Even in decks where Dustshoot isn't amazing, if you go first it doesn't matter.

[@justinmadrid8712]

@@Prodigial Yes. I was just pointing out a trend that noticed. Often times when a rogue deck does well in a tournament, it has 3 Trap Dustshoots in it.

[@jfree672]

perfect time to try some edison ladder lol

[@Leoyoung320]

Well sorry chaos is the most played deck online, local and tournament even though there are so many other options ppl will still gravitate towards playing BLS and chaos sorcerer,thunder drag etc.. it's sad but that's all ppl know how to play. I played a guy online and I was experimenting with something new to have some fun and the guy just went off about how I don't know the format etc lol it was funny but the reality in goat format is that ppl will not try to explore other cards because their main goal is to just play chaos to get a win.. so it makes the game boring to play after a while.

[@manukid91]

Looks like a lack of creativity and confidence from the players in playing other deck types. Plenty of other great decks out there than chaos shame

[@belac999]

So, that makes them bad players and goat scene bad?

[@manukid91]

nah just a lack of imagination. I never said the goat scene was bad just that the players showed no individuality. Plenty of great decks out there other than chaos. @@belac999

[@beautyorpower5288]

how is it a lack of creativity to play the best deck? theyre playing for real money, why would they bring something exploitable? players didnt accidentally bring turbo. there are people are analyzing the game like it has never been before. someone put out a 4 hour video why turbo is best and why its so resilient and hard to exploit. you expect that man, who put in all that research, to bring, what, RGT? goat control? silly

[@belac999]

@@beautyorpower5288 amen my friend! That was exactly my thought.

[@manukid91]

I got to disagree with both of you there. If you lack the skill to make other decks competitive what does that say about you lols @@belac999

[@jameswilliams2269]

Ban BLS!

[@beitno3029]

It should have been banned when they revived this format

[@alextummino3294]

alongside with Pot and Duo lke the italians used to do, giving slower decks a greater chance. Looks lke Edison will take over soon (it already surpassed goat tbh) @@beitno3029

[@brandonshort876]

Then turbo just runs the 3rd sorc and all non chaos decks lose their one boss monster. It wouldn’t change anything.

[@alfredomorra5272]

So much for "Diverse format" and "Chaos Turbo isn't 70% of the competition". LMAO

[@BerserkGorilla]

Zoo beat down all the way Berserk Gorilla strongest

[@UmDevoto]

Thats why goat sucks. Its good to comeback to it because its nostalgic, but since theres nothing new, its stale.

[@rodrigo9968]

so we can finaly agree this is a tier 0 format?

[@hi-pwr]

No, chaos is not unbeatable, the reason of why oeople choose chaos decks as thier main option is because is the most safest, low skill, easier deck to pilot in comparison to other decks that require a deep knowledge of the format and matchups. Chaos, because of its linear playstyle, doesn't require the previous, you can just keep with "set,set,chaos" without adjusting anything in the process, this may sound like i'm trying to say that this fact is what makes chaos strong, but no, it's the opposite, because this makes chaos a rigid, non flexible deck to pilot that offers little options to do something different when needed. Chaos in order to function and succed requires to open a power spell (trinity ot C. Des) to start it's engine, and because of this, any hand in c turbo that doesn' start with any of those cards is trash, even if they open thunder dragon or n assailant. It's more like people is afraid of losing instead of wanting to win, i mean, people is afraid to lose to duo, and this decks offers them safety of not doing so, hence why it's so popular amongst any beginners in the format, and thus the overrepresentation in tournaments, like i said, people are just lazy.

[@Prodigial]

@@hi-pwr This is so factually incorrect it's insane lol. Chaos decks do not need to open a power spell to succeed. The entire deck is either a power card, thins itself, or enables the first two things. The deck is INSANELY resilient and can get rolling incredibly fast. How are people not wanting to win by playing the best deck? What would you play instead? The best players in the world consistently use Chaos Turbo. I'm genuinely curious; if I sat you down and said you are going against a Chaos Turbo player who doesn't know what you're playing, what would your deck be with that knowledge going in?

[@hi-pwr]

@@Prodigial you just made my argument more valid, like i said, it's true that all CT plays from the most part are powes spells, but these 4 specifically are what make CT what it is, the whole deck is bulit to interact with these 4 cards, but, like i said as well, IF they don't open any of these 4 cards, their deck is slow as shit. why is people so fucking lazy?, my god, is like they really love their fucking "set.. set... chaos monster..." shenanigans, we need better players that can prove to beginners that chaos is not unbeatable and other decks that have more aggresion and speed can outclass them, sure, these decks may be hard to pilot (hence why these aren't popular), but experienced players who want more will look to more flexible decks like std goat or other aggro decks and experience better results, popular≠best (not always)

[@Prodigial]

@@hi-pwr "Slow as shit". What about Chaos TURBO do you not get? Pretty much every game, regardless if they open trinity or not, a CT player will be roughly 10 cards deeper in their deck than any other deck they go against except Reasoning Gate for obvious reasons.

[@Kenny-md2zf]

This is peak yugioh! Look at the diversity!

[@beautyorpower5288]

The 'correct' top cut wouldve been 1 moxies 2 alvarado 3 kit 4 ale 5 marcus hayden 6 ajtbls 7 DH101 8 Grump 1 of them made top 4 if anything i think this structure proved who really was the best. honestly, 1 of the 8 made top 4, so how can you say these 8 were the best in the tournament? yugioh is high variance, but they gave all of the best in the world a real chance to let their play put them in position to win, and let them overcome a hard sacking. idk how more yugioh would be a problem in a yugioh tournament the chess world champion wont play the world championship anymore because its not worth the stress. he thinks they should be shorter games, and more of them to prove who the real best chess player is basically, we need blitz yugioh. we need timers. we need the best in the world to have time pressure on them. thats how you find a world champion

[@yoshortyb]

The top players are particularly sheepish and lazy. They want to win and that's it. Looking different is rat poison to most of those dudes.

[@beitno3029]

It’s an unpopular opinion but valid. However, it’s difficult to create a deck from scratch and have it be viable. Possible, but improbable. I’ll try it for next years championship

[@Kingkhalled]

Competitive players want to compete...and win. What a concept. Cope

[@beitno3029]

@@Kingkhalled hey don’t be an ass. Cringe

[@theundertaler5875]

BAN BLS

[@hi-pwr]

People is just lazy

[@jondough3339]

Bruh…the format is like 20 years old. The meta is crystal clear and nothing is changing. What’d you expect, needle worm to win?

[@GoatDuels]

To put this into perspective, the top3 decks at Worlds 2022 last year were: Chaos Return, Goat Control, and Chaos Control (in spite of Chaos Turbo being more than 50% of the meta). And Goat Format has literally had a new top tier deck arise within the last month: the warrior midrange deck that some people are calling "Thunderclap." If you think nothing is ever changing, you haven't been paying attention much.

[@jondough3339]

@@GoatDuels nah brotha, I think you’re being too optimistic. Sure, new decks might pop up from time to time, but they’re decks made to fight chaos turbo. The meta going forward is going to be chaos turbo and decks made to fight against it. Goat format has been solved 100%

[@Prodigial]

@@jondough3339 This. Other decks may win, but Chaos Turbo is the best deck and any deck must have a good matchup against it. This is the entire reason Warriors is a top tier deck. If Chaos Turbo didn't exist, Warriors wouldn't magically become the best because too many decks have good matchups against it. The reason you don't see those decks (and Warriors is allowed to exist as strong as it does) is because those decks which would stomp Warriors usually get stomped by Chaos Turbo and aren't allowed the exist. The entire meta revolves around Chaos Turbo and that won't change.

[@GoatDuels]

I think a lot of people are using "best deck" in a very different way than its obvious literal meaning. The best deck is whatever gives a good player the best chance of winning their matches. That may be the most popular meta deck, or it may not. If everyone is trying to counter a deck, it very well might not be the best deck. It really depends on how good the counters are.